I agree. Let's get over this nationalism thing. Kosovo is a province of Serbia. Like my part of Holland is just a province of Holland.
Let's start working, living, partying. Welcome in Europe!
Ron: there is an entire nation that has soffered for to long. Now is time that International community recognize the will of this nation. This is delyied by only and only becaose of Russia. For you might be an 'intelctual' chalenge for the people of kosovA means life. That's why I suggest you & Co to be more comprehensive for the LIFE of the pople and find 'intelectual' chalenges in other non so serious issue/s.
Princip,UK, come the 11th December and with no autonomy what will you state then? Will you finally concede that the best is Independence and that Autonomy was always just a false promise from those who could never deliver or will you make up another imaginary deadline?
That goes to all Serb's camp, what will you state when Kosova's Independence will be recognised by some major EU countries?
Are you going(as I expect) to come on this forum and cry about how EU and USA broke international law, how this is not fair and how one day you will get Kosova back :) etc?
I didn't forget about your question. How could I?)))
EA,
(1) So if Yugoslavia had not broke up you would not favor Kosovo independence?
Your answer to your very hypothetica question would be. Kosova would have would have been a Republic of Kosova with exact rights as Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia Hercegovina, Montenegro, Slovenia. The Kosovar Albanians would have the right to express their wish in a referendum.
Ron,
Read this http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/62/305.html
EA,
remeber there have been other unilateral declarations of illegal independence what makes you so certain that this is any different especially given that 1244 is absolutely valid (why else are the US so frantic to bypass it) and Serbia is the UN recognised sucessor of FR Yugoslavia that signed the Resolution (not to be confused with SFR Yugoslavia which you rightly point out no longer exisits).
So come the 11th December with no legal independence will you concede that autonomy is the best solution and accept the state your in especially when you realise the US really cannot deliver?
If the US attempted to impose such an abrupt action as to nullify the UN SC Resolution what then to all other international norms and laws and what then to the sovereignity of any UN recognised state - consequences, consequences...
Ron your question should be reformulated. If no ethnic cleansing of 1 million people, if thousands of people weren't killed, if thousands of women weren't raped then even if we asked for independence there would be no reason for the others to listen to us even though our cause would have been just, further more, there would be no moral ground for the big powers to support us.
So if Serbia had not attacked, massacred, killed, prosecuted and discriminated us, I have a lot of doubts the big powers would be discussing about independence from Serbia. In that case they would all agree the maximum we could get is what Serbia offers now. So Serbia's plan now would have been a great plan 20 years ago. However too much has happened so we Albanians could close our eyes and blindly accept something which is even less then what we have under UNMIK. Nobody in Kosova/o of Albanian nationality and I mean nobody would want to go under the same state that murdered their parents, great parents, children, siblings, even if being under Serbia is just nominal. That would mean in simple words that I could kill you and your whole family, and you still have to respect my authority over you. Since Serbs like to speak about red lines, that is our red line. If we had to bad choices in front of us and Serbia was the least of the bad one ( which is impossible), we would still go for the other choice.
The civilized world was not build on talks, but on hard work. We have talked way too much already. Actually, we have talked so much that we have forgotten to work. It is time to start working on those roads and highways, factories, mines, etc, etc. It's the only way to provide for our children. Life must go on.
I am disappointed with your question "....why hasnt independence already happened". I thought you are analitical though our view points are very different. The independence of Kosova is a process and not just a wish. Time is coming very fast for this process to be concluded and everyone is aware of that. That is the 10th of December 2007. Kosova will declare its full independence from Serbia in case of a failure from these "negotiations". I expect that the proclamation of independence will be made in full co-operation with the USA and the most important EU countries such as UK, France, Germany, Italy and Cyprus....Ups a lapsus here)))). You should be fully aware that the current "negotiations" are not concentrating on the resolution 1244. Nevertheless 1244 applies to the dead Yugoslavia. So Princip we can disagree but please do not disappoint us here with this question why independence hasnt already happened))))
keep dreaming that 1244 does not apply but why then are these talks taking place or for that matter why hasnt independence already happened.
EA, come the 11th December and with no independence what will you state then? Will you finally concede that the best is Autonomy and that independence was always just a false promise from those who could never deliver or will you make up another imaginary deadline?
.....at the end of the day, only the UN can offer legitimacy,” Jeremić told journalists Saturday.
Did he really mean Russia by UN?
I do not expect any direct talks between Kosovar Albanians and the Serbian government after the 10th of December unless Serbia recognises Kosova full independence first.
Ron,
Let me answer your to your concern about the 1244.
First the 1244 refers to the dead Yugoslavia. In other words Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore so the 1244 is practically DEAD. You know that Ron, wake up!
If Ceku simply means "independence from Belgrade", he very well may be correct. If he actually means political and territorial independence, with full international recognition, UN representation and embassies throughout the world, he's in for a rude awakening. If he's lucky, "independence" will mean EU protectorate.
More hot air from Ceku. This chap doesn't even reside in KosovO & he's extremely good at looking at the world through rose-colored glasses. Ceku's been blowing this hot air since 1999. At least he doesn't give up, but neither do the Serbs!
One thing is for certain that the INDEPENDENCE of Kosova is coming soon and nothing can stop it. It would be good for Serbia to make full use of these meeting how to establish good relationships between to sovereign states. The time of "negotiations" between the two parties has run out after the 10th of December unless Serbia accepts the full independence of Kosova.
More hot air from Ceku. This chap doesn't even reside in KosovO & he's extremely good at looking at the world through rose-colored glasses. Ceku's been blowing this hot air since 1999. At least he doesn't give up, but neither do the Serbs!
One thing is for certain that the INDEPENDENCE of Kosova is coming soon and nothing can stop it. It would be good for Serbia to make full use of these meeting how to establish good relationships between to sovereign states. The time of "negotiations" between the two parties has run out after the 10th of December unless Serbia accepts the full independence of Kosova.
If Ceku simply means "independence from Belgrade", he very well may be correct. If he actually means political and territorial independence, with full international recognition, UN representation and embassies throughout the world, he's in for a rude awakening. If he's lucky, "independence" will mean EU protectorate.
keep dreaming that 1244 does not apply but why then are these talks taking place or for that matter why hasnt independence already happened.
EA, come the 11th December and with no independence what will you state then? Will you finally concede that the best is Autonomy and that independence was always just a false promise from those who could never deliver or will you make up another imaginary deadline?
.....at the end of the day, only the UN can offer legitimacy,” Jeremić told journalists Saturday.
Did he really mean Russia by UN?
I do not expect any direct talks between Kosovar Albanians and the Serbian government after the 10th of December unless Serbia recognises Kosova full independence first.
Ron,
Let me answer your to your concern about the 1244.
First the 1244 refers to the dead Yugoslavia. In other words Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore so the 1244 is practically DEAD. You know that Ron, wake up!
I am disappointed with your question "....why hasnt independence already happened". I thought you are analitical though our view points are very different. The independence of Kosova is a process and not just a wish. Time is coming very fast for this process to be concluded and everyone is aware of that. That is the 10th of December 2007. Kosova will declare its full independence from Serbia in case of a failure from these "negotiations". I expect that the proclamation of independence will be made in full co-operation with the USA and the most important EU countries such as UK, France, Germany, Italy and Cyprus....Ups a lapsus here)))). You should be fully aware that the current "negotiations" are not concentrating on the resolution 1244. Nevertheless 1244 applies to the dead Yugoslavia. So Princip we can disagree but please do not disappoint us here with this question why independence hasnt already happened))))
I agree. Let's get over this nationalism thing. Kosovo is a province of Serbia. Like my part of Holland is just a province of Holland.
Let's start working, living, partying. Welcome in Europe!
EA,
remeber there have been other unilateral declarations of illegal independence what makes you so certain that this is any different especially given that 1244 is absolutely valid (why else are the US so frantic to bypass it) and Serbia is the UN recognised sucessor of FR Yugoslavia that signed the Resolution (not to be confused with SFR Yugoslavia which you rightly point out no longer exisits).
So come the 11th December with no legal independence will you concede that autonomy is the best solution and accept the state your in especially when you realise the US really cannot deliver?
If the US attempted to impose such an abrupt action as to nullify the UN SC Resolution what then to all other international norms and laws and what then to the sovereignity of any UN recognised state - consequences, consequences...
The civilized world was not build on talks, but on hard work. We have talked way too much already. Actually, we have talked so much that we have forgotten to work. It is time to start working on those roads and highways, factories, mines, etc, etc. It's the only way to provide for our children. Life must go on.
I didn't forget about your question. How could I?)))
EA,
(1) So if Yugoslavia had not broke up you would not favor Kosovo independence?
Your answer to your very hypothetica question would be. Kosova would have would have been a Republic of Kosova with exact rights as Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia Hercegovina, Montenegro, Slovenia. The Kosovar Albanians would have the right to express their wish in a referendum.
Ron,
Read this http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/62/305.html
Ron your question should be reformulated. If no ethnic cleansing of 1 million people, if thousands of people weren't killed, if thousands of women weren't raped then even if we asked for independence there would be no reason for the others to listen to us even though our cause would have been just, further more, there would be no moral ground for the big powers to support us.
So if Serbia had not attacked, massacred, killed, prosecuted and discriminated us, I have a lot of doubts the big powers would be discussing about independence from Serbia. In that case they would all agree the maximum we could get is what Serbia offers now. So Serbia's plan now would have been a great plan 20 years ago. However too much has happened so we Albanians could close our eyes and blindly accept something which is even less then what we have under UNMIK. Nobody in Kosova/o of Albanian nationality and I mean nobody would want to go under the same state that murdered their parents, great parents, children, siblings, even if being under Serbia is just nominal. That would mean in simple words that I could kill you and your whole family, and you still have to respect my authority over you. Since Serbs like to speak about red lines, that is our red line. If we had to bad choices in front of us and Serbia was the least of the bad one ( which is impossible), we would still go for the other choice.
Princip,UK, come the 11th December and with no autonomy what will you state then? Will you finally concede that the best is Independence and that Autonomy was always just a false promise from those who could never deliver or will you make up another imaginary deadline?
That goes to all Serb's camp, what will you state when Kosova's Independence will be recognised by some major EU countries?
Are you going(as I expect) to come on this forum and cry about how EU and USA broke international law, how this is not fair and how one day you will get Kosova back :) etc?
Ron: there is an entire nation that has soffered for to long. Now is time that International community recognize the will of this nation. This is delyied by only and only becaose of Russia. For you might be an 'intelctual' chalenge for the people of kosovA means life. That's why I suggest you & Co to be more comprehensive for the LIFE of the pople and find 'intelectual' chalenges in other non so serious issue/s.
One thing is for certain that the INDEPENDENCE of Kosova is coming soon and nothing can stop it. It would be good for Serbia to make full use of these meeting how to establish good relationships between to sovereign states. The time of "negotiations" between the two parties has run out after the 10th of December unless Serbia accepts the full independence of Kosova.
.....at the end of the day, only the UN can offer legitimacy,” Jeremić told journalists Saturday.
Did he really mean Russia by UN?
I do not expect any direct talks between Kosovar Albanians and the Serbian government after the 10th of December unless Serbia recognises Kosova full independence first.
Ron,
Let me answer your to your concern about the 1244.
First the 1244 refers to the dead Yugoslavia. In other words Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore so the 1244 is practically DEAD. You know that Ron, wake up!
I am disappointed with your question "....why hasnt independence already happened". I thought you are analitical though our view points are very different. The independence of Kosova is a process and not just a wish. Time is coming very fast for this process to be concluded and everyone is aware of that. That is the 10th of December 2007. Kosova will declare its full independence from Serbia in case of a failure from these "negotiations". I expect that the proclamation of independence will be made in full co-operation with the USA and the most important EU countries such as UK, France, Germany, Italy and Cyprus....Ups a lapsus here)))). You should be fully aware that the current "negotiations" are not concentrating on the resolution 1244. Nevertheless 1244 applies to the dead Yugoslavia. So Princip we can disagree but please do not disappoint us here with this question why independence hasnt already happened))))
Ron: there is an entire nation that has soffered for to long. Now is time that International community recognize the will of this nation. This is delyied by only and only becaose of Russia. For you might be an 'intelctual' chalenge for the people of kosovA means life. That's why I suggest you & Co to be more comprehensive for the LIFE of the pople and find 'intelectual' chalenges in other non so serious issue/s.
More hot air from Ceku. This chap doesn't even reside in KosovO & he's extremely good at looking at the world through rose-colored glasses. Ceku's been blowing this hot air since 1999. At least he doesn't give up, but neither do the Serbs!
I didn't forget about your question. How could I?)))
EA,
(1) So if Yugoslavia had not broke up you would not favor Kosovo independence?
Your answer to your very hypothetica question would be. Kosova would have would have been a Republic of Kosova with exact rights as Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia Hercegovina, Montenegro, Slovenia. The Kosovar Albanians would have the right to express their wish in a referendum.
Ron,
Read this http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/62/305.html
Princip,UK, come the 11th December and with no autonomy what will you state then? Will you finally concede that the best is Independence and that Autonomy was always just a false promise from those who could never deliver or will you make up another imaginary deadline?
That goes to all Serb's camp, what will you state when Kosova's Independence will be recognised by some major EU countries?
Are you going(as I expect) to come on this forum and cry about how EU and USA broke international law, how this is not fair and how one day you will get Kosova back :) etc?
If Ceku simply means "independence from Belgrade", he very well may be correct. If he actually means political and territorial independence, with full international recognition, UN representation and embassies throughout the world, he's in for a rude awakening. If he's lucky, "independence" will mean EU protectorate.
keep dreaming that 1244 does not apply but why then are these talks taking place or for that matter why hasnt independence already happened.
EA, come the 11th December and with no independence what will you state then? Will you finally concede that the best is Autonomy and that independence was always just a false promise from those who could never deliver or will you make up another imaginary deadline?
Ron your question should be reformulated. If no ethnic cleansing of 1 million people, if thousands of people weren't killed, if thousands of women weren't raped then even if we asked for independence there would be no reason for the others to listen to us even though our cause would have been just, further more, there would be no moral ground for the big powers to support us.
So if Serbia had not attacked, massacred, killed, prosecuted and discriminated us, I have a lot of doubts the big powers would be discussing about independence from Serbia. In that case they would all agree the maximum we could get is what Serbia offers now. So Serbia's plan now would have been a great plan 20 years ago. However too much has happened so we Albanians could close our eyes and blindly accept something which is even less then what we have under UNMIK. Nobody in Kosova/o of Albanian nationality and I mean nobody would want to go under the same state that murdered their parents, great parents, children, siblings, even if being under Serbia is just nominal. That would mean in simple words that I could kill you and your whole family, and you still have to respect my authority over you. Since Serbs like to speak about red lines, that is our red line. If we had to bad choices in front of us and Serbia was the least of the bad one ( which is impossible), we would still go for the other choice.
The civilized world was not build on talks, but on hard work. We have talked way too much already. Actually, we have talked so much that we have forgotten to work. It is time to start working on those roads and highways, factories, mines, etc, etc. It's the only way to provide for our children. Life must go on.
EA,
remeber there have been other unilateral declarations of illegal independence what makes you so certain that this is any different especially given that 1244 is absolutely valid (why else are the US so frantic to bypass it) and Serbia is the UN recognised sucessor of FR Yugoslavia that signed the Resolution (not to be confused with SFR Yugoslavia which you rightly point out no longer exisits).
So come the 11th December with no legal independence will you concede that autonomy is the best solution and accept the state your in especially when you realise the US really cannot deliver?
If the US attempted to impose such an abrupt action as to nullify the UN SC Resolution what then to all other international norms and laws and what then to the sovereignity of any UN recognised state - consequences, consequences...
I agree. Let's get over this nationalism thing. Kosovo is a province of Serbia. Like my part of Holland is just a province of Holland.
Let's start working, living, partying. Welcome in Europe!
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