Kacin: Serbia lost Kosovo in 1999

Why would anyone care what Jelko Kacin, who is a Slovenian 'rapporteur', or note taker, at the European parliament, has to say? This is hardly newsworthy. This guy is a nobody.

WISE MAN.
Could not said it better.

This guys is a complete waste of time: it's obvious that he doesn't have a clue!

Keep the german's experience somewhere away from Serbia it has nothing to do with us.

End of the story!

Congratulations to Jelko Kacin the relatively unknown Slovenian Eurocrat for getting a brief mention in the news.

I am sure that some Serbian politician can also come up with some suggestions about your country and the European Parliament.

Just another opinion which makes no difference in the bigger picture.

Village-bey wrote:

"It'll be like asking the Jews after WWII to live under Germany."

Really? How about another WWII analogy. . .ready?

It'll be like asking the Serbs to live under an Albanian controlled Kosovo!

Remember this?. . .In 1943 the Muslim-Albanian Nazi collaborators formed the SS Skandeberg battalion that massacred 20,000 Serbs and expelled another 150,000 in an attempt to create an ethnically pure state.

(By the way. . .notice any similarities to the situation today?)

The selective memory of some Albanian commentators is astoundingly mind-numbing!

Although I do not enjoy admitting it I think this guy is right in saying that Serbia could be the power house of the Western Balkans. It is much larger and it has a bigger population than any of our countries and it is more developed, exception made for Croatia probably. The problem is that like most of us, Albanians, Bosnians, Montenegrins etc, the Serbs are a very stubborn and headstrong lot, that are very good at chasing lost causes even at the expense of their future prosperity and wellbeing. (After all it is not a coincidence that most of us have this very weird custom of celebrating defeats and suffering, e.g. the Battle of Kosovo for the Serbs, Scanderbeg for us Albanians and so on.)
Because from whichever angle one looks at it Kosova is a lost cause for Serbia. How could it ever hope to sustain Serb rule over a very hostile entity inhabited by two million Albanians - and growing - and very few Serbs? Serbia does not have the economic clout to develop Kosova so it would pay the price for the poverty and social problems resulting from it and it is hard to imagine the K-Serbs gaining anything from such an arrangement. The hostility would simply be perpetuated and we would see new cycles of violence that would simply be detrimental to both Serbia and Kosova as well as the broader region. the only way Serbia can hope to control Kosova is by installing a police-military state, which - even if accepted by the International Community - would not solve anything in the long term and would be a huge drain on Serb finances.
Actually if one looks at it rationally: why in the world would Serbia want to rule over Kosova again? What does it hope to gain?
I cannot think of anything positive. If anyone can please let me know.

I think everyone in Serbia knows that Kosovo is lost.

I will say it again, never give up Kosovo. The few internationalists in the West are using unresonable ratioanlity and the threat of severe force against the Serbs if they do not let go of Kosovo. Forget it! Partion is the answer, and how we settle that will take time so give it time. The North to Serbia and the South to Albania,then we can talk about the Republic of Srpska annexation to Serbia. Stalin and Churchill met in Moscow and split Yugoslavia in half....they're doing it again.

Absurdness! Mr Kacin do you really think Serbs are that immature to give up just like that from something that clrearly belongs to them. Milosevic did act in that manner in order to fully merge Kosovo to Serbia. Taking away status does not nececerilly mean giving up from the teritorry. I am not saying it was right thing to do but that was the meaning of acting in such way. Of course you may now interpret in a way that suits you and your EU friends. And besides what makes you think that Serbia wants to be any motor or any leader in the region. All we want is just to be a normal country that respects intrnational law. In the end, when you give up from your few km's of sea and grant it to Croatia or vice versa, then you may say something and be useful as an example.

UNSC resolution 1244 happened in 1999 and that confirmed Kosovo as part of Serbia. This totally contradicts Kacin's theory.

“When Milošević repealed Kosovo's autonomous status he effectively severed Kosovo from Serbia. That was a political decision with consequences that Serbia has to come to terms with”

Well this doesn't make any sense at all as it is factually incorrect and illogical.

village-bey "It will be like asking the Jews after WWII to live under Germany"

In 2007, The Economist declared that "A good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument."

I don't remember the jews of Germany trying to create their own state in the 1930s. Or for that matter being many, if any jews left in Germany after 1945.

Hardly a sensible comparison.

Kacin, I dont know who you are... but thanks!

kate;

if this was not reality then, why is serbia having such difficulty trying to convince the rest of the world that this isn't true and that the "new" serbian government lead by kostunica is any different to that of millosovic?

WISE MAN.
Could not said it better.
(Ahmet Isufi, 1. November 2007 12:48)

Im glad u see it the same way as he does. Because someone has to believe his fiction. Resolution 1244 clearly states that he is wrong. Maybe he should read that document if he hasnt already.

CCCC

Thank you, thank you Mr Kacin. Everyone on this site (at least in private) must admit that he makes a lot of sense. His point is precise and goes at the heart of state theory. Judicially Kosova cannot be associated with Serbia in any shape or form. It will be like asking the Jews after WWII to live under Germany.
Political maturity of Serbian politicians is an internal matter that doesn’t concern us. Albanians cannot wait for the figs to ripe in Belgrade, (some never do). Independence must be now.

Kacin may be right about the de facto situation south of the Ibar. But certainly north Kosovo has always pledged its allegience to Belgrade. Far from Serbia losing north Kosovo, it would be more accurate for Kacin to admit that Pristina never controlled that part since 1999.

Mr. Kacin's claim that “When Milošević repealed Kosovo's autonomous status he effectively severed Kosovo from Serbia. " is a blattant lie.

Autonomous status of Kosovo was revoked by Federal Government, not Milosevic.

The reason for this was IMF request to rein the budget spending of Kosovo Albanian Communist olligarchy.

For his claim that Serbia lost Kosovo in 1999, it is enough to read UNSEC resolution 1244.

Liberal "geniuses" such as Mr. Kacin are not limited by pesky details such as
logic, facts and decency.

Joe,

Indeed the intervention (my country took part!) was to stop violence. NOT to create a new state.
As was stated again in 1244.

Yes, Joe, we (the West) saved you. We did not create a new state for you.
Can't you accept Kosovo is part of Serbia?

Strange, so when you agree on AUTONOMY actually you say yes to losing a province.

Then 1244 should have included: Kosovo can get independent.

Don't cheat guys!

KS,

Where would you have been without NATO intervention? Clueless?

Mr Kacin, if Serbia lost kosovo in 1999 why did NATO sign a UN document garaunteeing serb sovereignty of the province?. Why is the US trying to sidestep this document?. Mr Kacin as soon as you and others such as the US in particular are mature enough to respect international law some progress can be made. In any case partition of north and south, the north to belgrade and the south to pristina is a possible solution although it is unlikely to be approved by belgrade and therefore will not be recognised by the UN because of Russia and will not be recognised by the EU because of Cyprus.It would still constitute unlawful theft of serb land by NATO if it happened.

The pro independent Kosovo group is always repeating Kosovo is lost, the Serbs should give up and the Serbs should work to join the EU. This is not the reality. The Serbs have won on the diplomatic front, they don't have to give up Kosovo, and don't need the EU. The EU needs Serbia. The reason being, why would they want to give up that strategic area to the Russians?

I would accept a serbian lidership in the european integration in the moment serbian people cease their shovinistic pretens in the domination of the balkans.

A lot of anger coming from the Serbs. "notetaker","nobody","clueless", those are only a few names.

Ron,

Everybody knows where the K-Albanians would be without NATO intervention. The living ones would be all outside Kosovo as a result of the ethnic cleansing of Serbia. But you see this biggest evil of the end of the XX century was prevented by NATO. Serbia had badly miscalculated. Thank God NATO was there to prevent such barbarity and uphold some moral standards.

Kacin: “When Milošević repealed Kosovo's autonomous status he effectively severed Kosovo from Serbia."

Kacin has obviously studied state sciences, international law and international politics at a different university than me. And at a different kind of university.

At the Underground University of Pristina?

When Tito created autonomous Kosovo he didn't need approval from the rest of world. You know why? Because it was an action of a sovereign state. Other countries may or may not have liked that creation, but they had no jurisdiction over the case.

And so was the case when that autonomy was abolished. It was an action of a sovereign state acting inside of its jurisdiction.

It is completely another issue if the move was clever. I don't think it was.

We will have very exciting times ahead if Mr. Kacin's formulations become guiding principle in Europe. Did for example France lose its right of jurisdiction on its Muslim minority when it banned Muslims to wear head scarves in school?

The future of Kosovo depends on what Russia has to say.
Bigger issues are at stake, than Kosovo, per se.

Jelko Kacin says that "When Milošević repealed Kosovo's autonomous status he effectively severed Kosovo from Serbia. That was a political decision with consequences that Serbia has to come to terms with."

The only problem with Kacin's logic is that, contrary to what the Albanians almost certainly told him, Milosevic didn't revoke Kosovo's autonomy.

When the Serbian Constitution was ammended in 1989 it was done with the full agreement and support of the Kosovo Assembly, in which over 70% of the members were ethnic Albanians.

The decision to ammend Serbia's Constitution, and with it Kosovo's status within Serbia, predated Milosevic by several years.

The SFRY government launched the initative to amend Serbia's Constitution all the way back in 1983 because the Albanian nationalist rioting in Kosovo during 1981 and 1982 was the worst violence Yugoslavia had seen since the Second World War.

At the request of the federal Yugoslav government, Ivan Stambolic set-up the commission to draft the amendments in 1986.

In 1989 the amendments were put to a vote and the Kosovo Assembly, which was overwhealmingly Albanian and had veto power, voted to approve the amendments.

The voting took place on March 23, 1989. There were 190 members of the Kosovo Assembly of which 175 voted in favor, 10 against, 2 abstained, and 3 not present.

Milosevic didn't revoke anything, and there are documents and videotapes proving all of this.

The videotape of the voting in the Kosovo assembly has been entered into evidence at The Hague Tribunal is irrefutable proof that nobody "revoked Kosovo's autonomy".

But I digress, maybe Serbia should let Kosovo go. Serbia would certainly be better off without the Kosovo-Albanians.

The international community has spent billions of dollars in Kosovo and the Albanians still manage to live in poverty, eventhough Serbia is still paying their debt to the IMF.

The Kosovo-Albanian politicians are hopelessly corrupt and do about as good of a job managing Kosovo's economy as a pack of retarded monkeys could do.

Billions of dollars have been pumped into Kosovo and the people are still dirt poor. Where did the money go? Obviously Ceku, Haradinaj, and Thachi are doing pretty well for them selves. They've robbed the people blind, but the Albanians still keep voting for them.

Kosovo independence is the rope, and if the Kosovo-Albanians want it so badly then I say let them hang themselves with it. Serbia is better off without them.

Serbia ought to take the lead in arranging this divorce. It should trade Presevo for northern Kosovo and solve its Albanian problem once and for all.

Then the Bosnian-Serbs should cite the Kosovo precedent to call for a referendum on Republika Srpska's final status. Should it remain in Bosnia or should it become independent? Afterall, Dayton is about as clear on this question as Resolution 1244 was.

it's funny how there haven'tbeen any comment tothis serbian article not foriegn lol

Its very true.

Vuk Jeremich said it earlier, the path towards europe will be blocked if Serbia is causing such a chaos in the balkans, some political analysts even fearing for a great war. Independence should be allowed by Serbia if they want a quick path into Europe, and it will be a quick path as they are much better than some other european states in terms of economy. Serbian people are very intelligent and should be allowed into europe, but I see it very vague and am pessimistic they will be granted european integrity if they continue to block the process.

Politicians are one by one accepting the reality that they are no longer part of Kosova. The Serbian hierarchy also know this but they are trying to get what they can out of this, as much as they can. But too much bargaining is doing them no good.

Opsss! It said it all. What is going on in here? It is not the 10th of December yet))

If we "lost" KosovO, why is it still a part of Serbia?

All just hot air!

“Kacin, whose report on Serbia was adopted by the European Parliament last week, told Austrian daily Der Standard that it was Slobodan Milošević who had deprived Serbia of Kosovo.

As far as Serbia’s continued claims to the province were concerned, Kacin said that Kosovo had de facto ceased to be a part of Serbia in 1999, and that that was, he said, ‘end of story’.”

He’s quite right. But sadly many orthodox christians and Serb nationalists don’t want to see this.

Dane- your statement is totally irresponsible. The results would be a free-for-all with catastrophic global consequences. How's Copenhagen? Ha,ha!

AlboSwe wront. "Kacin, I don't know who you are....but thanks!

This tells us quite a bit. Obviously nobody important, that's who he is.

Kate could you please explain to me why his opinion does not matter? Is it because he said Kosova is lost?
I am not saying that it matters, but it strikes me as odd that you always say that when someone says Kosova is lost, while commenting on anyone saying "Kosovo is Serb forever and ever etc etc etc" as if it were the end of the world? Doesn't it seem a bit selective to you?

Serbia lost Kosovo even before 1999, it is not worth to comment even...
More interesting would be to discuss threatenings coming from Belgrade with aim to stop K-Serbs to take part in Kosovo elections. This is declared by Mr.Ljubisa Zivic, president of SSDK (Savez Socialdemokrata Kosova). Let people decide to live their lives as they want and where do they want... To take part in Kosovo elections or not concerns people living in Kosovo and not in Belgrade...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...

Now you are directing your anger towards me? You guys have truly become "an agry mob" as one persons name reads.

I have a question...do you think that if Serbia sanctioned Kosova tomorrow (impossible) that Kosova would starve and Serbia would be better off? IF you said yes, than you know nothing about economics and you're just here to bash people.

Here is the truth:
If Kosovo Albanians see any irony in buying bricks and mortar from the republic whose forces destroyed their homes, they are not disturbed by it.

Milos Boskovic, sales director of the Vojvodina-based Potisje brick factory, told IWPR that since the end of conflict cooperation has blossomed with Kosovo Albanians. “Kosovo is a very important market to us. Up to 70 per cent of our annual production goes there,” he said."

That's only one company, there are a lot of Serbian companies that depend on the Kosovar market. Just considering this fact "Serbia exported goods to Kosovo in first nine months of 2003 worth 108 million euro" it gives you a clear sense of why Serbia loves selling in Kosova.

Don't worry, we are made NOT to tax your goods (by UNMIK). After independence say hello to a tariff!! How does 25% sound?

For those who believe blindly that Serbia has no powers over its Province Kosovo & Metohija ignore the highest State institution namelt the passport. Hundreds of thousands of Serbian Albanians have accepted the state they are in and continue to do so in thousands every month. Beyond which PISG has never had any influence in the north or southern enclaves thus any ilegal action (unilateral declarations) will just exacerbate the division all the more - hardly bringing stability.

Expect many hundreds of thousands more accepting the state they are in during 2008 when the new visa free Serbian passport is introduced - at which point we shall see more denial from the odd one or two individuals that independence will now be granted Dec 2008 or that t had already happened in 99 while the rest of Serbia's citizens get on with making Serbia better place for all and respecting the state they are in.

To Ahmet Isufi

Please can you tell us who are you , i think that B92 should ofer your a free space for your publications, and please tell us do you read the news like in the B92 is other news agencys or just in B92.
Please dont be offended, but i cannot understand you and some albanian posters.
Pleas why not telling also to the readers of B92 about the election campain that is going on in Kosovo.
Tell them about our politicians that make empty promises and they dont do nothing exept look for their own interests.
If you want to be open and sincere than you should comment also about the news in general, not only to oppose the serbian posters.

Peace to all
Gezim

Gezim, your name gave you away because in Albanian your name is spelled either: Gëzim or Gzim and not GEZIM.
Rest my case body. Don't pretend to be someone you are not.

Ron,

Wow you saved me? How and when? You make me lough. I am a citizen of the mighty US. I have no Albanian connection at all. I just have a deep sympathy for the K-Albanians for all their past suffering (especially in the nineties).
Because of 1999 Serbia forfeited all right to Kosovo. Because of 1999 like millions of Americans I can not accept Kosovo like part of Serbia anymore. With my government's help Kosova - as their habitants call their state - will be de jure independent. You lost it de facto already in 1999.

Doug M.,

"You do know that when the vote took place, Kosovo was under a 'state of emergency' declared by Milosevic?

"Note that this 'state of emergency' included surrounding the Assembly building with tanks, soldiers, and armed policemen."

Do you know that the SFRY Presidency (not Milosevic) declared that state of emergency because Albanian nationalists were rioting in Kosovo? And are you also aware that the Albanian rioters attacked government buildings, which was why the army had to guard every government building in Kosovo including the assembly building?

The army wasn't there to threaten the members of the Assembly into voting a certain way -- the army was there to protect the building from the rampaging mobs of Kosovo-Albanians, who had killed about 10 people in the month before the vote.

For all intents and purposes, Serbia may have lost Kosovo in 1999, but the problem is no one can honestly claim to have claimed it since:

The Albanians? They're utterly and completely dependent on the United States for international legitimacy and recognition. They have no formal representation in any international body, and 70% of all trade is still conducted between the Kosovo Province - Serbia Proper border.

UNMIK? Aside from bureaucratized statements and a few organizations with overly long acronyms, most would agree that the UN has become a force for corruption and stale politics since it adminstratively took over in 1999.

In the end, I see that Kosovo will probably become something of an EU protectorate. It will have many of the formal trappings of independence, but in order to keep EU unity, and in order to keep Serbia from further drifting into Russia's sphere, while simulatentously keeping the half-baked promise of giving the Albanians self-determination, I probably think ultimate authority will rest with an EU High Representative, who will govern Kosovo in the same way Bosnia is governed.

Serbia might not be coming back, but who really has been in charge since?

We are not asking from serbia to accept it or to give independence to Kosova,because one can not give something that does not belong to it. SO we are asking from US an EU to recognise us not Serbia, Russia, Cyprus whatever.

GSP, Can you show me how is Kosova part of Serbia. I don't see Serbian boot walking on my country and they never will again.

"Milosevic didn't revoke anything, and there are documents and videotapes proving all of this."

You do know that when the vote took place, Kosovo was under a "state of emergency" declared by Milosevic?

Note that this "state of emergency" included surrounding the Assembly building with tanks, soldiers, and armed policemen.


Doug M.

joe, like millions of other americans in 1999 you had to be shown on a map by bill clinton where kosovo even was, like millions of other americans in 1999 sitting in front of CNN you swallowed easily the lies about "genocide" of suffering "kosovars" without bothering to dig too deeply at all about the facts of what was going on there. When UN teams went into kosovo after the conflict they scoured the province and found no evidence whatsoever of mass graves or anything of the sort. Germans have shown documentaries on their TV exposing the whole justification for the agression on Yugoslavia as being based on lies. I suppose you are one of the people who finds the truth to be inconvenient

I guess the Serbs here cant accept a lecture from a Slovene, considering that his country was the first to see what happened to Kosovo as a portent of what might happen to his little Yugoslav Republic.

There are many ways 'international law' can be changed. One of them is: not obeying/enforcing them.

Bmrusila:

Do you read yourself? In a short paragraph you contradict yourself: “Milosevic did act in that manner in order to fully merge Kosovo to Serbia…” then “I am not saying it was right thing to do …”
Why you are bushing around either you say he betrayed his own citizens or he was a hero.
I understand and truly believe that many serbs all they want is to be a normal country and live and respect the others. Both sides were defeated by ottomans (Albanians and serbs) no matter how “proud” they are of their battles. So both sides should stop “masturbating” their brains with some “myths” that they stopped the turks from entering Europe because Ottoman empire ruled for 5 centuries all the way up to Austria.
It is time to turn the page, let’s make a good use of history and be taught that the animosity between us (all balakan citizens) always was for the better of the others (USA and Russia) who really don’t care about Albanians or Serbs.

Kosova is de facto independent. After December 10 we will se that it will be accepted de jure. Nothing to worry. It's all good. Everybody will be happy, including ordinary Serbs, who can't wait for it to end, so they can start walking towards Europe.

Kacin has made his point clear in that he and others are convinced that there is no going back on Kosova's sovereignty rights.
There are two fundamental points about 1999 that deserve careful attention
1. Even under the current international regime, states that grossly and systematically violates basic human right looses their right to sovereignty claim as the same state cannot achieve obedience over its laws. This was the case for Kosova for the last two decades culmination in NATO intervention in 1999.
2. In 1999 a UN Interim Administration was established in Kosova, but most importantly 1999 removed any physical presence of the Serbian state from Kosova. As the matter has been once resolved by force that physical absence would technically mean “no real threat to peace”. Unless Albanians change heart there is no going back for the sovereignty rights of Kosova.

Bob Petrovich:

"Autonomous status of Kosovo was revoked by Federal Government, not Milosevic.
The reason for this was IMF request to rein the budget spending of Kosovo Albanian Communist olligarchy"

Yes, but of course Milosevic was the driving force that carried out that suppression of autonomy on behalf of the IMF (the Federal government, meaning the reps of the other republics, merely capitulated to the pressures of Serbia and tried to appease Milosevic).

Good to see that Bob admits that Milosevic was a stooge for the IMF.

frukyy,

I don't really know what was wrong of saying this? Milosevic did act in such manner as he did, to fully merge Kosovo to Serbia. I presume that status of autonomious province could be kind of obstacle in future. I don't know what he was thinking and what was his real itention over changing the status and therefore I have reasons to express my doubts over his acting. That is why I said "I don't say it was right thing to do so". This might mean I do not agree with his problem-solving methods. Besides, as I remember (though I was still young then) Albanians did boycote everything that was coming from Serbia. However, it is unpolite to presume someone's thoughts as wrong or even to make them untrue. You presumed me as someone who supports Milosevic's politics and see him as a hero. That was really wrong and yet you continued with far history. I never mentioned Ottoman empire and by not one word I said that we won Ottomans and helped Europe from Ottoman occupation. I was not talking about far history at all. You should address to Albanian people overhere who are claming of being Illyrians as a result of lack in arguments. Maybe I am wrong about this, but it really looks like much as I said. Besides, I really don't live in the past but grabbing toward the future as much as possible. writing comments overhere does not make me living in the past (but I must say that I do respect and love my country by all heart and I am proud on its history)but just way to express the thoughts. I must say that I have right to think with my own head I certanly have right to agree or not agreee with some politics and politicans coming from EU or USA. When we talk about Kosovo and the latest statement given by Mr Kacin, I do not agree and the reason is a offence against Serbs and undermining their own arguing capability by offering them the "carrot" promiesorily "motor of the region" for the tiny signature that will ratify independence recognition. That insults. And yes, I do think that Kosovo is a part of Serbia but the crucial question is what I would like in the future to be solved this problem named Kosovo. And don't even dare to presume that I want this problem to be solved by war.

Bmrusila:

Everyone by now know Milosevic intention, is just how you see them depends. Every person is entitle to think with his own head and everyone should (and mostly is) proud of their origins. As about the lack of arguments about Albanians being of Illyrian decent in all objectivity I have to admit that there is more evidence to prove it then against. I am not an anthropologist or historian but some simple facts can give you some clues on that direction (language, region, ancient graveyards,). But for discussion let’s assume that there is no evidence Albanians are linked to Illyrians.
What to do now with over 2 million inhabitants who live in a precarious region encircled by the Slavic entities who tried to expel them from their land. Should they have a shot to control their destiny or we should put them again under butchers (Serbia) control.
This is the question now. In all honesty if the situation were reversed what would you think. Autonomy means you are still part of Serbian state. So the very next day after the autonomy is accepted it can be revoked (as Milosevic did in the past) by Serbian legislature. Albanians want the independence Serbs refuse it by all means. And as you said the last thing you want is another war. We agree on that right?!

Doug:
Why was the state of emergency for?! Go back and watch the tapes again carefully if they weren’t edited or censored by government already.
I grew up in Kosova and I know what was revoked. I don’t need any tape to watch

lloyd,

You make this terrible mistake of being condescending with people who disagree with you. Well as one would say your are the product of your environment..you were thought that Serbs are super intelligent and all the Americans are dummies. Well believe what you want. In my case you made a big "faux pas". And about Kosovo of 1999 please don't try to present it like it was a peaceful Suisse type countryside. If you would have kept it that way and respected the human rights of 2 millions of your citizens today you would not have to lament..."how we lost Kosovo?"

Kosova is de facto Independent. It will be de jure very very soon.

Ahmet - KosovO is part of Serbia - never heard of kosova.

Yes KS you are right. You can even notice that there are some other nationals that feel more Serbs and more nationalistic than Serbs themselves. Comment of Kacin should have not be such a surprise. Polls yesterday told the bitter truth to the public again. Here are the result again;
what would be the outcome of the Kosovo negotiations?
43.2 percent responded that Kosovo would gain independence, 15.91 percent expected partition,
14.88 percent believed that Kosovo would have the status of an autonomous region within Serbian borders,
while 14.32 percent thought that it would remain an international protectorate.
These are Serbs being giving answers. I think that this needs no further comment. Kate, and other Serbs, carry on with the same circus. Everyone around Serbs is gaining because of the blunders of the politicians that you are supporting. Politicians that you are supporting have stopped B92 from the recent meeting with Russian officials. Politicians that you are supporting are intentionally guiding Serbia towards new embargo in order for themselves to became rich from racketeering, same as Milosevic. In fact they are just copying Milosevic and doing it very well. You keep on supporting them since you carry no consequences while 20% of the Serbia population is living in poverty

the only thing with the name kosovo that is in serbia right now and belongs there is "kosovo street" in belgrade.

frukyy,

I just mentioned Albanians being Illyrians as lack of arguments becuse you begun with the far history and same time accusing me of looking in the past. So, how then you explain this of being Illyrian, it is even far,far,far,far past. You Albanians may claim to be whatever you like if that make you happy, if you believe in that and if that make you feel good. I really don't mind and does not bother me. Sometimes just make me laugh, though. However, if all of us begin to examine (which is already done and each of us is aware of its own roots) I may claim the same thing for Serbs being the oldest nation in the world, but so as Englishmen too, or any other nation in this world. But the question is how really important is this for all of us in 21.century. The history should play important role in our lives in order to remind us of who and what we are, to celabrate even our defeats if we feel so. The history should serve us as something that happend in the past and if possible to learn it from by evaluating mistakes that once took place in the past. The history should be a part of one nation on what should be proud of. But, should we look in the past or shall we look in the future? Lets be proud on what we are and what we have without undermining each others history and its glory. And to answer you as a member of this (butcher) Slavic nation on your question. But, firstly, the name you picked for Slavs is not appriopriate one. You should say Serbian butchers and it is ok if make you happy to call us like that. I may say for you the same since your war criminals are not any better and commited terrible crime against my people (and yet they are all free and run Kosovo policy, at least serbian war criminals are not ruling Serbia). But unlike you I never called you and your people a butchers. The crime is crime and it seem that each nation sees only the crimes that are made against them and suffer only for its own victims. But such is life I would say. The acctual answer is that I understand your fears and waht I am sure at the moment is that Serbs actually do not want to rule out Kosovo. It is not in our interest, perhaps only northern part. The another thing is that if you get that wide autonmomy I am certain that Serbia wont take that status away as Milosevic did. But I belong to that group of people that do not like to force things. Meaning, that if you clearly do not want to live with Serbs then OK, you have all right to make the best is suits you. But lets be honest, what do you thing to do with the remaining Serbs who do not want to live with you Albanians(for the same reasons and fears they have expirienced in the past from you) and how do you think to intagrate them. By force? Or, do you have something more sustainable and acceptable? So, each of us care of its own survival. In this posts overhere I have seen that many Albanians are ready to go in war to reach their goals, even in the case of partition. So, tell me now who is inviting whom in the war and who is the initiator. When starting the war, I address you now but also the Serbs and ask who is going to look after women, children, old people? Who is going to be there to defend them from saprats (on both sides)? The men will be runing their war for few square km's and demonstrtaing the power against each other in oreder to write new pages in the history. Be honest and tell isn't it better to find the solution by negotiating even if it means many years of negotiation. But lets each of us give up from something and contribute to the peace once for good.

Best regards

Bmrusila:

Keeping the discussion honest in all respect to Serbian nation I don’t think the indefinite negotiations can in anyway contribute to the problem. As I said let’s assume the Albanians are not Illyrians I don’t want to argue on that topic. Last time checked Serbs are still considered as part of Slavic population. I said Slavic because even though the serb regime did the most of the butchery I recall that Slovenian, Croatian, Bosnian, Montenegrin, Macedonian troops were sent to “calm” the unrest in Kosova because they believed that we are the “separatists”. But when they saw the fire on their doors changed their mind and now they are supporting Kosova not because they feel affection for K but they are applying the old proverb “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
I have to apologize because mistakenly I included all the serbs as butchers, certainly there are many serbs who did and are not supporting the aggressive policy of Serbian leadership. The Kosovars are saying we don’t want to be under Serbia. That doesn’t mean we don’t want to live with serbs. The fears of Serbian population are justified and should be addressed properly. However I want to point that few serbs who didn’t participate in “mobilization” orderd by Milosevic are living without fear with their Albanian neighbors.
No one wants to assimilate them as a matter of fact they have more seats on parliament then the percentage of population would allow them. But as I mentioned in before they are being controlled from Belgrade and are refusing to participate in Kosova life by boycotting everything that has to do with Kosova government. In exchange the state of Serbia is paying everything for them (food, satellite TV, taxes etc.).
Should serbian citizens ask they elected official why so much money is being sent to Kosovo. About churches let’s see how many of them were build after Milosevic came to power and ask why. Example in Prishtine a church was built right in the courtyard of the University of Pristina Library and Kosova Museum. Even in Serbia you don’t do that. Yet the church stand and is being protected. At best you call that provocation.
Monastery of Deqani is right next to my ancestor’s homeland and it never crossed our mind to attack or destroy it as a matter of fact I have been inside multiple time to admire the architecture and the artistic meaning of it. Now when the church leadership takes a stand and support a dictatorial regime there is a danger of attracting unwanted retribution. So it is either the serbs, churches nor their religion being attacked but the leadership who sometime praised even the massacres of Arkan..
If K-serbs want to live in Kosova they should accept local government even if it is autonomy. Now if they really don’t want to live with Albanians what to do I don’t know, but refusing rights to more than 90% of population for the rest doesn’t sound as the right thing to do.

frukyy,

The negotiation is best way to reach the goals, I still believe in some civilized manners. When I spoke about Slavs, Serbs of course do belong to the Slavs, what I meant it was to ask you to be more precize when talking about butchering in order to avoid labelling all Slavs by that name. However, I was not aware (or hadn't them in mind since they are all forgiven for thier sin exept Serbs and I do not expect you to do so)of the other Slavs that you now mentioned contributed to your suffering. For sure you are right when speaking about supporting the each others side when there is common enemy. Take a look nowadays Eurosong contest (trivial example but very useful).

Now about Serbian refusal to take part in Kosovo policy,hm well, just put it this way. Serbs interprate it in a way that their participation would justifay Kosovo as a new state accepting Albanians as their leaders. Or maybe they would accept even less in the case of autonomy. What they do now is just protest that Albanians used in the past. I am sure that those who did not take a part in the war are not enadengered. Those who have blood in thier hands and commited crime will not come back for sure. They will be prosecuted in Serbia as some already did. Furthermore you said Albanians have no problems living with Serbs and I will reply that Serbs have no problem living with Albanians. So, if we can live with each other and have all respects for each others then why to split, where is the acctual problem? Think, this might be not real true or is it only about the power and ruling over the territory. And I think Serbs do offer you all the power to have in Kosovo. They just don't want you to have a seat in UN. So, that is much more than what Albanians offer to Serbs. But it is not up to me to agree or not agree on this . What I would like, honestly speaking is partition. Each side would have to give up from something which unfortanately will cause some suffering to the ordinary people but it is the only way to work. You might not agree with me and I do respect that. The staborn attitudes wont lead us anywhere and we will be enslaved in our own stupidity without any chance to make any progres towards the brighter future.

I see you are bothered by new churches built in Milosevic's time. I don't know what to say on that. Muslims are building mosks in Serbia nowadays and did not hear anyone talking against it. Perhaps the church is not in appropriate place but it was some kind of expression of K-Serbs exitance at that time, I pressume. I know where is the church since I 've been living overthere while studing at the University. I have nice memories from there and left many things overthere. Most are not valuable exept books and my diary :-(. The last time I visited Pristina, I was escorted and protected by Belgian army (used to work for them in N.Mitrovica region). Now, I can't visit it anymore becuse I am afraid. I would like to visit Kosovo again and see all these places that I used to visited. Hope, one day this might be reality.

Bmruslia:

If it was up to me Kosova will be partitioned long time ago. However without going into details if you move one border then it would be a chain reaction for the entire region to redraw the borders. I don’t really think K-Albanians care about having a seat in UN they just want to get split from Serbia. Why split when we can live together you asked my short answer is why not. Czechoslovakia didn’t have any problem yet they split. The long answer would take space but mainly and briefly is because of what Serbian regime did to the Albanian population. You pointed out the building of the mosques in Serbia and in my view this phenomenon it is even worst in Kosova. Nor churches or mosques bother me it is the intent on why they are built and by whom. So when I see a wahabis mosque worth millions of euros standing tall in my homeland it saddens me. Honestly I do not consider this “urban terrorism” as any forms of expression expect as a crime against all Kosova citizens. Instead the money should be poured into education and progress. I think there are more religious buildings in Kosova then there are Gas stations. I had Serbian friends on my youth and many of them didn’t bother to learn Albanian even though I speak perfectly Serbian (which by the way saved my life). Do I hate them because of that or because they are serbs, of course not. I hate what some of them did after Milosevic came to power. Because of the lack of status Kosova is becoming a no-man’s land and even as Albanian I am frightened to go and live there. The problem is mostly economic and corruption where with a little money you are above the law. Now if you want really to visit Kosovo I can arrange that and truly guarantee your security with my life. Maybe that would bring some new perspective views for you and your peers.

While it is true that Mr. Kacin might not be someone of great political power, as Dragan noted, his Report on Serbia was addopted in its entirety by the European Parliament. That I believe is important.

Reading commentaries here still obvious for anyone that the serbs team dont understand (intencionally or not, its hard to know and not important) the future ahead. There are 2 paths: the european jointment and the creation of a regional microworld when serbia will control all balkans taking the "lion's part" for it. The question is that these 2 paths are auto-excluding for the other. The option have control of balkans and go to european market is not conceptually possible because this option needs countries perfectly defined on its borders and central power (national identity) for then the european integration, a hasardous region with shadowing limits of definition dont can fit on european union because its own undetermination of national identity(ies). The world of serbs-bosnians, muslins-serbs, croats-kosavars k-albanians etc etc belongs at the other option and this option will not succeed turning the forcing play executed by Belgrade a non sense political game. Serbs need free from theirselves the spkas, kosovos, vojvodinas etc and accept the real Serbia like precondition for the european future. the serbia dont need the buildig of a balaknic empire for improve its economic results, this is past, europe means trade and not geopolitical strong positions, this position made at expense of neighboring countries turn impossible any future dialog and a common market. The imposition of the serbian will and wanted advantage for economic/political power only make a instable balkan when serbia turn it the new austria but this mess never will succeed on arrive at europe union and at least will be possible, the balkanic peoples will fight ever more strong against this super serbia.Serbia is trying a second reading of the milosevics dream and now the "justice" international law history is using for keep the challenge, the 1244 is nothing and the mediaval tale too the "serbian churches heritage"is a joke all this just show that serbia have not real points to defend and then need rethoric and politcal fables for defend its interes above the the actuality. A balkans with no countries (a stalinistic dream of cancel the national identities for a ideologic directed take over) is impossible, the manipulating of minotities for a sliced region will early be showed impossible of sustain, the neo-serbia ruling the balkans need give pass to a stabished region directing for the european jointment.

Bmruslia:

If it was up to me Kosova will be partitioned long time ago. However without going into details if you move one border then it would be a chain reaction for the entire region to redraw the borders. I don’t really think K-Albanians care about having a seat in UN they just want to get split from Serbia. Why split when we can live together you asked my short answer is why not. Czechoslovakia didn’t have any problem yet they split. The long answer would take space but mainly and briefly is because of what Serbian regime did to the Albanian population. You pointed out the building of the mosques in Serbia and in my view this phenomenon it is even worst in Kosova. Nor churches or mosques bother me it is the intent on why they are built and by whom. So when I see a wahabis mosque worth millions of euros standing tall in my homeland it saddens me. Honestly I do not consider this “urban terrorism” as any forms of expression expect as a crime against all Kosova citizens. Instead the money should be poured into education and progress. I think there are more religious buildings in Kosova then there are Gas stations. I had Serbian friends on my youth and many of them didn’t bother to learn Albanian even though I speak perfectly Serbian (which by the way saved my life). Do I hate them because of that or because they are serbs, of course not. I hate what some of them did after Milosevic came to power. Because of the lack of status Kosova is becoming a no-man’s land and even as Albanian I am frightened to go and live there. The problem is mostly economic and corruption where with a little money you are above the law. Now if you want really to visit Kosovo I can arrange that and truly guarantee your security with my life. Maybe that would bring some new perspective views for you and your peers.

I agree wit all you said. If it is about to split, then split it, and if the chain is about to happen then let it happen. The peace should be established once for good. Otherwise, we will live lives hating each others eternally. I don't feel any hate, don't take me wrong. What I feel is just inability to make some differnces. For the religius institutions I have no comment exept that I agree. I am sorry to hear that you as an Albanian is afraid to visit and live in Kosovo, perhaps only to live which I undesrtand prefectly why. I am sorry also that Serbian friends of yours made you feel bad and if inflicted any loss .That is the thing that I will never undesrtand how friends can be become to each other's enemies.

But, lets hope for the brighter future and for the best. Btw I would really like to visit again, so I would like to use your help in oreder to feel safe while there. Thanks. I think once you left your e-amil overhere, so I feel free to contact you when I am due to visit

Thank you, thank you Mr Kacin. Everyone on this site (at least in private) must admit that he makes a lot of sense. His point is precise and goes at the heart of state theory. Judicially Kosova cannot be associated with Serbia in any shape or form. It will be like asking the Jews after WWII to live under Germany.
Political maturity of Serbian politicians is an internal matter that doesn’t concern us. Albanians cannot wait for the figs to ripe in Belgrade, (some never do). Independence must be now.

I think everyone in Serbia knows that Kosovo is lost.

WISE MAN.
Could not said it better.

I would accept a serbian lidership in the european integration in the moment serbian people cease their shovinistic pretens in the domination of the balkans.

Kacin, I dont know who you are... but thanks!

Although I do not enjoy admitting it I think this guy is right in saying that Serbia could be the power house of the Western Balkans. It is much larger and it has a bigger population than any of our countries and it is more developed, exception made for Croatia probably. The problem is that like most of us, Albanians, Bosnians, Montenegrins etc, the Serbs are a very stubborn and headstrong lot, that are very good at chasing lost causes even at the expense of their future prosperity and wellbeing. (After all it is not a coincidence that most of us have this very weird custom of celebrating defeats and suffering, e.g. the Battle of Kosovo for the Serbs, Scanderbeg for us Albanians and so on.)
Because from whichever angle one looks at it Kosova is a lost cause for Serbia. How could it ever hope to sustain Serb rule over a very hostile entity inhabited by two million Albanians - and growing - and very few Serbs? Serbia does not have the economic clout to develop Kosova so it would pay the price for the poverty and social problems resulting from it and it is hard to imagine the K-Serbs gaining anything from such an arrangement. The hostility would simply be perpetuated and we would see new cycles of violence that would simply be detrimental to both Serbia and Kosova as well as the broader region. the only way Serbia can hope to control Kosova is by installing a police-military state, which - even if accepted by the International Community - would not solve anything in the long term and would be a huge drain on Serb finances.
Actually if one looks at it rationally: why in the world would Serbia want to rule over Kosova again? What does it hope to gain?
I cannot think of anything positive. If anyone can please let me know.

kate;

if this was not reality then, why is serbia having such difficulty trying to convince the rest of the world that this isn't true and that the "new" serbian government lead by kostunica is any different to that of millosovic?

Its very true.

Vuk Jeremich said it earlier, the path towards europe will be blocked if Serbia is causing such a chaos in the balkans, some political analysts even fearing for a great war. Independence should be allowed by Serbia if they want a quick path into Europe, and it will be a quick path as they are much better than some other european states in terms of economy. Serbian people are very intelligent and should be allowed into europe, but I see it very vague and am pessimistic they will be granted european integrity if they continue to block the process.

Politicians are one by one accepting the reality that they are no longer part of Kosova. The Serbian hierarchy also know this but they are trying to get what they can out of this, as much as they can. But too much bargaining is doing them no good.

Why would anyone care what Jelko Kacin, who is a Slovenian 'rapporteur', or note taker, at the European parliament, has to say? This is hardly newsworthy. This guy is a nobody.

Congratulations to Jelko Kacin the relatively unknown Slovenian Eurocrat for getting a brief mention in the news.

I am sure that some Serbian politician can also come up with some suggestions about your country and the European Parliament.

Just another opinion which makes no difference in the bigger picture.

Absurdness! Mr Kacin do you really think Serbs are that immature to give up just like that from something that clrearly belongs to them. Milosevic did act in that manner in order to fully merge Kosovo to Serbia. Taking away status does not nececerilly mean giving up from the teritorry. I am not saying it was right thing to do but that was the meaning of acting in such way. Of course you may now interpret in a way that suits you and your EU friends. And besides what makes you think that Serbia wants to be any motor or any leader in the region. All we want is just to be a normal country that respects intrnational law. In the end, when you give up from your few km's of sea and grant it to Croatia or vice versa, then you may say something and be useful as an example.

“Kacin, whose report on Serbia was adopted by the European Parliament last week, told Austrian daily Der Standard that it was Slobodan Milošević who had deprived Serbia of Kosovo.

As far as Serbia’s continued claims to the province were concerned, Kacin said that Kosovo had de facto ceased to be a part of Serbia in 1999, and that that was, he said, ‘end of story’.”

He’s quite right. But sadly many orthodox christians and Serb nationalists don’t want to see this.

A lot of anger coming from the Serbs. "notetaker","nobody","clueless", those are only a few names.

Kosova is de facto independent. After December 10 we will se that it will be accepted de jure. Nothing to worry. It's all good. Everybody will be happy, including ordinary Serbs, who can't wait for it to end, so they can start walking towards Europe.

We are not asking from serbia to accept it or to give independence to Kosova,because one can not give something that does not belong to it. SO we are asking from US an EU to recognise us not Serbia, Russia, Cyprus whatever.

Reading commentaries here still obvious for anyone that the serbs team dont understand (intencionally or not, its hard to know and not important) the future ahead. There are 2 paths: the european jointment and the creation of a regional microworld when serbia will control all balkans taking the "lion's part" for it. The question is that these 2 paths are auto-excluding for the other. The option have control of balkans and go to european market is not conceptually possible because this option needs countries perfectly defined on its borders and central power (national identity) for then the european integration, a hasardous region with shadowing limits of definition dont can fit on european union because its own undetermination of national identity(ies). The world of serbs-bosnians, muslins-serbs, croats-kosavars k-albanians etc etc belongs at the other option and this option will not succeed turning the forcing play executed by Belgrade a non sense political game. Serbs need free from theirselves the spkas, kosovos, vojvodinas etc and accept the real Serbia like precondition for the european future. the serbia dont need the buildig of a balaknic empire for improve its economic results, this is past, europe means trade and not geopolitical strong positions, this position made at expense of neighboring countries turn impossible any future dialog and a common market. The imposition of the serbian will and wanted advantage for economic/political power only make a instable balkan when serbia turn it the new austria but this mess never will succeed on arrive at europe union and at least will be possible, the balkanic peoples will fight ever more strong against this super serbia.Serbia is trying a second reading of the milosevics dream and now the "justice" international law history is using for keep the challenge, the 1244 is nothing and the mediaval tale too the "serbian churches heritage"is a joke all this just show that serbia have not real points to defend and then need rethoric and politcal fables for defend its interes above the the actuality. A balkans with no countries (a stalinistic dream of cancel the national identities for a ideologic directed take over) is impossible, the manipulating of minotities for a sliced region will early be showed impossible of sustain, the neo-serbia ruling the balkans need give pass to a stabished region directing for the european jointment.

GSP, Can you show me how is Kosova part of Serbia. I don't see Serbian boot walking on my country and they never will again.

This guys is a complete waste of time: it's obvious that he doesn't have a clue!

Keep the german's experience somewhere away from Serbia it has nothing to do with us.

End of the story!

I will say it again, never give up Kosovo. The few internationalists in the West are using unresonable ratioanlity and the threat of severe force against the Serbs if they do not let go of Kosovo. Forget it! Partion is the answer, and how we settle that will take time so give it time. The North to Serbia and the South to Albania,then we can talk about the Republic of Srpska annexation to Serbia. Stalin and Churchill met in Moscow and split Yugoslavia in half....they're doing it again.

Kate could you please explain to me why his opinion does not matter? Is it because he said Kosova is lost?
I am not saying that it matters, but it strikes me as odd that you always say that when someone says Kosova is lost, while commenting on anyone saying "Kosovo is Serb forever and ever etc etc etc" as if it were the end of the world? Doesn't it seem a bit selective to you?

Yes KS you are right. You can even notice that there are some other nationals that feel more Serbs and more nationalistic than Serbs themselves. Comment of Kacin should have not be such a surprise. Polls yesterday told the bitter truth to the public again. Here are the result again;
what would be the outcome of the Kosovo negotiations?
43.2 percent responded that Kosovo would gain independence, 15.91 percent expected partition,
14.88 percent believed that Kosovo would have the status of an autonomous region within Serbian borders,
while 14.32 percent thought that it would remain an international protectorate.
These are Serbs being giving answers. I think that this needs no further comment. Kate, and other Serbs, carry on with the same circus. Everyone around Serbs is gaining because of the blunders of the politicians that you are supporting. Politicians that you are supporting have stopped B92 from the recent meeting with Russian officials. Politicians that you are supporting are intentionally guiding Serbia towards new embargo in order for themselves to became rich from racketeering, same as Milosevic. In fact they are just copying Milosevic and doing it very well. You keep on supporting them since you carry no consequences while 20% of the Serbia population is living in poverty

Serbia lost Kosovo even before 1999, it is not worth to comment even...
More interesting would be to discuss threatenings coming from Belgrade with aim to stop K-Serbs to take part in Kosovo elections. This is declared by Mr.Ljubisa Zivic, president of SSDK (Savez Socialdemokrata Kosova). Let people decide to live their lives as they want and where do they want... To take part in Kosovo elections or not concerns people living in Kosovo and not in Belgrade...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...

Now you are directing your anger towards me? You guys have truly become "an agry mob" as one persons name reads.

I have a question...do you think that if Serbia sanctioned Kosova tomorrow (impossible) that Kosova would starve and Serbia would be better off? IF you said yes, than you know nothing about economics and you're just here to bash people.

Here is the truth:
If Kosovo Albanians see any irony in buying bricks and mortar from the republic whose forces destroyed their homes, they are not disturbed by it.

Milos Boskovic, sales director of the Vojvodina-based Potisje brick factory, told IWPR that since the end of conflict cooperation has blossomed with Kosovo Albanians. “Kosovo is a very important market to us. Up to 70 per cent of our annual production goes there,” he said."

That's only one company, there are a lot of Serbian companies that depend on the Kosovar market. Just considering this fact "Serbia exported goods to Kosovo in first nine months of 2003 worth 108 million euro" it gives you a clear sense of why Serbia loves selling in Kosova.

Don't worry, we are made NOT to tax your goods (by UNMIK). After independence say hello to a tariff!! How does 25% sound?

Opsss! It said it all. What is going on in here? It is not the 10th of December yet))

Kacin has made his point clear in that he and others are convinced that there is no going back on Kosova's sovereignty rights.
There are two fundamental points about 1999 that deserve careful attention
1. Even under the current international regime, states that grossly and systematically violates basic human right looses their right to sovereignty claim as the same state cannot achieve obedience over its laws. This was the case for Kosova for the last two decades culmination in NATO intervention in 1999.
2. In 1999 a UN Interim Administration was established in Kosova, but most importantly 1999 removed any physical presence of the Serbian state from Kosova. As the matter has been once resolved by force that physical absence would technically mean “no real threat to peace”. Unless Albanians change heart there is no going back for the sovereignty rights of Kosova.

Ron,

Everybody knows where the K-Albanians would be without NATO intervention. The living ones would be all outside Kosovo as a result of the ethnic cleansing of Serbia. But you see this biggest evil of the end of the XX century was prevented by NATO. Serbia had badly miscalculated. Thank God NATO was there to prevent such barbarity and uphold some moral standards.

Bob Petrovich:

"Autonomous status of Kosovo was revoked by Federal Government, not Milosevic.
The reason for this was IMF request to rein the budget spending of Kosovo Albanian Communist olligarchy"

Yes, but of course Milosevic was the driving force that carried out that suppression of autonomy on behalf of the IMF (the Federal government, meaning the reps of the other republics, merely capitulated to the pressures of Serbia and tried to appease Milosevic).

Good to see that Bob admits that Milosevic was a stooge for the IMF.

lloyd,

You make this terrible mistake of being condescending with people who disagree with you. Well as one would say your are the product of your environment..you were thought that Serbs are super intelligent and all the Americans are dummies. Well believe what you want. In my case you made a big "faux pas". And about Kosovo of 1999 please don't try to present it like it was a peaceful Suisse type countryside. If you would have kept it that way and respected the human rights of 2 millions of your citizens today you would not have to lament..."how we lost Kosovo?"

it's funny how there haven'tbeen any comment tothis serbian article not foriegn lol

UNSC resolution 1244 happened in 1999 and that confirmed Kosovo as part of Serbia. This totally contradicts Kacin's theory.

“When Milošević repealed Kosovo's autonomous status he effectively severed Kosovo from Serbia. That was a political decision with consequences that Serbia has to come to terms with”

Well this doesn't make any sense at all as it is factually incorrect and illogical.

village-bey "It will be like asking the Jews after WWII to live under Germany"

In 2007, The Economist declared that "A good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument."

I don't remember the jews of Germany trying to create their own state in the 1930s. Or for that matter being many, if any jews left in Germany after 1945.

Hardly a sensible comparison.

WISE MAN.
Could not said it better.
(Ahmet Isufi, 1. November 2007 12:48)

Im glad u see it the same way as he does. Because someone has to believe his fiction. Resolution 1244 clearly states that he is wrong. Maybe he should read that document if he hasnt already.

CCCC

Village-bey wrote:

"It'll be like asking the Jews after WWII to live under Germany."

Really? How about another WWII analogy. . .ready?

It'll be like asking the Serbs to live under an Albanian controlled Kosovo!

Remember this?. . .In 1943 the Muslim-Albanian Nazi collaborators formed the SS Skandeberg battalion that massacred 20,000 Serbs and expelled another 150,000 in an attempt to create an ethnically pure state.

(By the way. . .notice any similarities to the situation today?)

The selective memory of some Albanian commentators is astoundingly mind-numbing!

Kacin may be right about the de facto situation south of the Ibar. But certainly north Kosovo has always pledged its allegience to Belgrade. Far from Serbia losing north Kosovo, it would be more accurate for Kacin to admit that Pristina never controlled that part since 1999.

I guess the Serbs here cant accept a lecture from a Slovene, considering that his country was the first to see what happened to Kosovo as a portent of what might happen to his little Yugoslav Republic.

There are many ways 'international law' can be changed. One of them is: not obeying/enforcing them.

Bmrusila:

Do you read yourself? In a short paragraph you contradict yourself: “Milosevic did act in that manner in order to fully merge Kosovo to Serbia…” then “I am not saying it was right thing to do …”
Why you are bushing around either you say he betrayed his own citizens or he was a hero.
I understand and truly believe that many serbs all they want is to be a normal country and live and respect the others. Both sides were defeated by ottomans (Albanians and serbs) no matter how “proud” they are of their battles. So both sides should stop “masturbating” their brains with some “myths” that they stopped the turks from entering Europe because Ottoman empire ruled for 5 centuries all the way up to Austria.
It is time to turn the page, let’s make a good use of history and be taught that the animosity between us (all balakan citizens) always was for the better of the others (USA and Russia) who really don’t care about Albanians or Serbs.

While it is true that Mr. Kacin might not be someone of great political power, as Dragan noted, his Report on Serbia was addopted in its entirety by the European Parliament. That I believe is important.

Joe,

Indeed the intervention (my country took part!) was to stop violence. NOT to create a new state.
As was stated again in 1244.

Yes, Joe, we (the West) saved you. We did not create a new state for you.
Can't you accept Kosovo is part of Serbia?

the only thing with the name kosovo that is in serbia right now and belongs there is "kosovo street" in belgrade.

"Milosevic didn't revoke anything, and there are documents and videotapes proving all of this."

You do know that when the vote took place, Kosovo was under a "state of emergency" declared by Milosevic?

Note that this "state of emergency" included surrounding the Assembly building with tanks, soldiers, and armed policemen.


Doug M.

Bmrusila:

Everyone by now know Milosevic intention, is just how you see them depends. Every person is entitle to think with his own head and everyone should (and mostly is) proud of their origins. As about the lack of arguments about Albanians being of Illyrian decent in all objectivity I have to admit that there is more evidence to prove it then against. I am not an anthropologist or historian but some simple facts can give you some clues on that direction (language, region, ancient graveyards,). But for discussion let’s assume that there is no evidence Albanians are linked to Illyrians.
What to do now with over 2 million inhabitants who live in a precarious region encircled by the Slavic entities who tried to expel them from their land. Should they have a shot to control their destiny or we should put them again under butchers (Serbia) control.
This is the question now. In all honesty if the situation were reversed what would you think. Autonomy means you are still part of Serbian state. So the very next day after the autonomy is accepted it can be revoked (as Milosevic did in the past) by Serbian legislature. Albanians want the independence Serbs refuse it by all means. And as you said the last thing you want is another war. We agree on that right?!

Doug:
Why was the state of emergency for?! Go back and watch the tapes again carefully if they weren’t edited or censored by government already.
I grew up in Kosova and I know what was revoked. I don’t need any tape to watch

Ron,

Wow you saved me? How and when? You make me lough. I am a citizen of the mighty US. I have no Albanian connection at all. I just have a deep sympathy for the K-Albanians for all their past suffering (especially in the nineties).
Because of 1999 Serbia forfeited all right to Kosovo. Because of 1999 like millions of Americans I can not accept Kosovo like part of Serbia anymore. With my government's help Kosova - as their habitants call their state - will be de jure independent. You lost it de facto already in 1999.

Bmrusila:

Keeping the discussion honest in all respect to Serbian nation I don’t think the indefinite negotiations can in anyway contribute to the problem. As I said let’s assume the Albanians are not Illyrians I don’t want to argue on that topic. Last time checked Serbs are still considered as part of Slavic population. I said Slavic because even though the serb regime did the most of the butchery I recall that Slovenian, Croatian, Bosnian, Montenegrin, Macedonian troops were sent to “calm” the unrest in Kosova because they believed that we are the “separatists”. But when they saw the fire on their doors changed their mind and now they are supporting Kosova not because they feel affection for K but they are applying the old proverb “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
I have to apologize because mistakenly I included all the serbs as butchers, certainly there are many serbs who did and are not supporting the aggressive policy of Serbian leadership. The Kosovars are saying we don’t want to be under Serbia. That doesn’t mean we don’t want to live with serbs. The fears of Serbian population are justified and should be addressed properly. However I want to point that few serbs who didn’t participate in “mobilization” orderd by Milosevic are living without fear with their Albanian neighbors.
No one wants to assimilate them as a matter of fact they have more seats on parliament then the percentage of population would allow them. But as I mentioned in before they are being controlled from Belgrade and are refusing to participate in Kosova life by boycotting everything that has to do with Kosova government. In exchange the state of Serbia is paying everything for them (food, satellite TV, taxes etc.).
Should serbian citizens ask they elected official why so much money is being sent to Kosovo. About churches let’s see how many of them were build after Milosevic came to power and ask why. Example in Prishtine a church was built right in the courtyard of the University of Pristina Library and Kosova Museum. Even in Serbia you don’t do that. Yet the church stand and is being protected. At best you call that provocation.
Monastery of Deqani is right next to my ancestor’s homeland and it never crossed our mind to attack or destroy it as a matter of fact I have been inside multiple time to admire the architecture and the artistic meaning of it. Now when the church leadership takes a stand and support a dictatorial regime there is a danger of attracting unwanted retribution. So it is either the serbs, churches nor their religion being attacked but the leadership who sometime praised even the massacres of Arkan..
If K-serbs want to live in Kosova they should accept local government even if it is autonomy. Now if they really don’t want to live with Albanians what to do I don’t know, but refusing rights to more than 90% of population for the rest doesn’t sound as the right thing to do.

Kosova is de facto Independent. It will be de jure very very soon.

Mr. Kacin's claim that “When Milošević repealed Kosovo's autonomous status he effectively severed Kosovo from Serbia. " is a blattant lie.

Autonomous status of Kosovo was revoked by Federal Government, not Milosevic.

The reason for this was IMF request to rein the budget spending of Kosovo Albanian Communist olligarchy.

For his claim that Serbia lost Kosovo in 1999, it is enough to read UNSEC resolution 1244.

Liberal "geniuses" such as Mr. Kacin are not limited by pesky details such as
logic, facts and decency.

Kacin: “When Milošević repealed Kosovo's autonomous status he effectively severed Kosovo from Serbia."

Kacin has obviously studied state sciences, international law and international politics at a different university than me. And at a different kind of university.

At the Underground University of Pristina?

When Tito created autonomous Kosovo he didn't need approval from the rest of world. You know why? Because it was an action of a sovereign state. Other countries may or may not have liked that creation, but they had no jurisdiction over the case.

And so was the case when that autonomy was abolished. It was an action of a sovereign state acting inside of its jurisdiction.

It is completely another issue if the move was clever. I don't think it was.

We will have very exciting times ahead if Mr. Kacin's formulations become guiding principle in Europe. Did for example France lose its right of jurisdiction on its Muslim minority when it banned Muslims to wear head scarves in school?

For all intents and purposes, Serbia may have lost Kosovo in 1999, but the problem is no one can honestly claim to have claimed it since:

The Albanians? They're utterly and completely dependent on the United States for international legitimacy and recognition. They have no formal representation in any international body, and 70% of all trade is still conducted between the Kosovo Province - Serbia Proper border.

UNMIK? Aside from bureaucratized statements and a few organizations with overly long acronyms, most would agree that the UN has become a force for corruption and stale politics since it adminstratively took over in 1999.

In the end, I see that Kosovo will probably become something of an EU protectorate. It will have many of the formal trappings of independence, but in order to keep EU unity, and in order to keep Serbia from further drifting into Russia's sphere, while simulatentously keeping the half-baked promise of giving the Albanians self-determination, I probably think ultimate authority will rest with an EU High Representative, who will govern Kosovo in the same way Bosnia is governed.

Serbia might not be coming back, but who really has been in charge since?

Strange, so when you agree on AUTONOMY actually you say yes to losing a province.

Then 1244 should have included: Kosovo can get independent.

Don't cheat guys!

KS,

Where would you have been without NATO intervention? Clueless?

Mr Kacin, if Serbia lost kosovo in 1999 why did NATO sign a UN document garaunteeing serb sovereignty of the province?. Why is the US trying to sidestep this document?. Mr Kacin as soon as you and others such as the US in particular are mature enough to respect international law some progress can be made. In any case partition of north and south, the north to belgrade and the south to pristina is a possible solution although it is unlikely to be approved by belgrade and therefore will not be recognised by the UN because of Russia and will not be recognised by the EU because of Cyprus.It would still constitute unlawful theft of serb land by NATO if it happened.

The pro independent Kosovo group is always repeating Kosovo is lost, the Serbs should give up and the Serbs should work to join the EU. This is not the reality. The Serbs have won on the diplomatic front, they don't have to give up Kosovo, and don't need the EU. The EU needs Serbia. The reason being, why would they want to give up that strategic area to the Russians?

The future of Kosovo depends on what Russia has to say.
Bigger issues are at stake, than Kosovo, per se.

Dane- your statement is totally irresponsible. The results would be a free-for-all with catastrophic global consequences. How's Copenhagen? Ha,ha!

If we "lost" KosovO, why is it still a part of Serbia?

All just hot air!

Jelko Kacin says that "When Milošević repealed Kosovo's autonomous status he effectively severed Kosovo from Serbia. That was a political decision with consequences that Serbia has to come to terms with."

The only problem with Kacin's logic is that, contrary to what the Albanians almost certainly told him, Milosevic didn't revoke Kosovo's autonomy.

When the Serbian Constitution was ammended in 1989 it was done with the full agreement and support of the Kosovo Assembly, in which over 70% of the members were ethnic Albanians.

The decision to ammend Serbia's Constitution, and with it Kosovo's status within Serbia, predated Milosevic by several years.

The SFRY government launched the initative to amend Serbia's Constitution all the way back in 1983 because the Albanian nationalist rioting in Kosovo during 1981 and 1982 was the worst violence Yugoslavia had seen since the Second World War.

At the request of the federal Yugoslav government, Ivan Stambolic set-up the commission to draft the amendments in 1986.

In 1989 the amendments were put to a vote and the Kosovo Assembly, which was overwhealmingly Albanian and had veto power, voted to approve the amendments.

The voting took place on March 23, 1989. There were 190 members of the Kosovo Assembly of which 175 voted in favor, 10 against, 2 abstained, and 3 not present.

Milosevic didn't revoke anything, and there are documents and videotapes proving all of this.

The videotape of the voting in the Kosovo assembly has been entered into evidence at The Hague Tribunal is irrefutable proof that nobody "revoked Kosovo's autonomy".

But I digress, maybe Serbia should let Kosovo go. Serbia would certainly be better off without the Kosovo-Albanians.

The international community has spent billions of dollars in Kosovo and the Albanians still manage to live in poverty, eventhough Serbia is still paying their debt to the IMF.

The Kosovo-Albanian politicians are hopelessly corrupt and do about as good of a job managing Kosovo's economy as a pack of retarded monkeys could do.

Billions of dollars have been pumped into Kosovo and the people are still dirt poor. Where did the money go? Obviously Ceku, Haradinaj, and Thachi are doing pretty well for them selves. They've robbed the people blind, but the Albanians still keep voting for them.

Kosovo independence is the rope, and if the Kosovo-Albanians want it so badly then I say let them hang themselves with it. Serbia is better off without them.

Serbia ought to take the lead in arranging this divorce. It should trade Presevo for northern Kosovo and solve its Albanian problem once and for all.

Then the Bosnian-Serbs should cite the Kosovo precedent to call for a referendum on Republika Srpska's final status. Should it remain in Bosnia or should it become independent? Afterall, Dayton is about as clear on this question as Resolution 1244 was.

For those who believe blindly that Serbia has no powers over its Province Kosovo & Metohija ignore the highest State institution namelt the passport. Hundreds of thousands of Serbian Albanians have accepted the state they are in and continue to do so in thousands every month. Beyond which PISG has never had any influence in the north or southern enclaves thus any ilegal action (unilateral declarations) will just exacerbate the division all the more - hardly bringing stability.

Expect many hundreds of thousands more accepting the state they are in during 2008 when the new visa free Serbian passport is introduced - at which point we shall see more denial from the odd one or two individuals that independence will now be granted Dec 2008 or that t had already happened in 99 while the rest of Serbia's citizens get on with making Serbia better place for all and respecting the state they are in.

AlboSwe wront. "Kacin, I don't know who you are....but thanks!

This tells us quite a bit. Obviously nobody important, that's who he is.

To Ahmet Isufi

Please can you tell us who are you , i think that B92 should ofer your a free space for your publications, and please tell us do you read the news like in the B92 is other news agencys or just in B92.
Please dont be offended, but i cannot understand you and some albanian posters.
Pleas why not telling also to the readers of B92 about the election campain that is going on in Kosovo.
Tell them about our politicians that make empty promises and they dont do nothing exept look for their own interests.
If you want to be open and sincere than you should comment also about the news in general, not only to oppose the serbian posters.

Peace to all
Gezim

frukyy,

I don't really know what was wrong of saying this? Milosevic did act in such manner as he did, to fully merge Kosovo to Serbia. I presume that status of autonomious province could be kind of obstacle in future. I don't know what he was thinking and what was his real itention over changing the status and therefore I have reasons to express my doubts over his acting. That is why I said "I don't say it was right thing to do so". This might mean I do not agree with his problem-solving methods. Besides, as I remember (though I was still young then) Albanians did boycote everything that was coming from Serbia. However, it is unpolite to presume someone's thoughts as wrong or even to make them untrue. You presumed me as someone who supports Milosevic's politics and see him as a hero. That was really wrong and yet you continued with far history. I never mentioned Ottoman empire and by not one word I said that we won Ottomans and helped Europe from Ottoman occupation. I was not talking about far history at all. You should address to Albanian people overhere who are claming of being Illyrians as a result of lack in arguments. Maybe I am wrong about this, but it really looks like much as I said. Besides, I really don't live in the past but grabbing toward the future as much as possible. writing comments overhere does not make me living in the past (but I must say that I do respect and love my country by all heart and I am proud on its history)but just way to express the thoughts. I must say that I have right to think with my own head I certanly have right to agree or not agreee with some politics and politicans coming from EU or USA. When we talk about Kosovo and the latest statement given by Mr Kacin, I do not agree and the reason is a offence against Serbs and undermining their own arguing capability by offering them the "carrot" promiesorily "motor of the region" for the tiny signature that will ratify independence recognition. That insults. And yes, I do think that Kosovo is a part of Serbia but the crucial question is what I would like in the future to be solved this problem named Kosovo. And don't even dare to presume that I want this problem to be solved by war.

Gezim, your name gave you away because in Albanian your name is spelled either: Gëzim or Gzim and not GEZIM.
Rest my case body. Don't pretend to be someone you are not.

frukyy,

I just mentioned Albanians being Illyrians as lack of arguments becuse you begun with the far history and same time accusing me of looking in the past. So, how then you explain this of being Illyrian, it is even far,far,far,far past. You Albanians may claim to be whatever you like if that make you happy, if you believe in that and if that make you feel good. I really don't mind and does not bother me. Sometimes just make me laugh, though. However, if all of us begin to examine (which is already done and each of us is aware of its own roots) I may claim the same thing for Serbs being the oldest nation in the world, but so as Englishmen too, or any other nation in this world. But the question is how really important is this for all of us in 21.century. The history should play important role in our lives in order to remind us of who and what we are, to celabrate even our defeats if we feel so. The history should serve us as something that happend in the past and if possible to learn it from by evaluating mistakes that once took place in the past. The history should be a part of one nation on what should be proud of. But, should we look in the past or shall we look in the future? Lets be proud on what we are and what we have without undermining each others history and its glory. And to answer you as a member of this (butcher) Slavic nation on your question. But, firstly, the name you picked for Slavs is not appriopriate one. You should say Serbian butchers and it is ok if make you happy to call us like that. I may say for you the same since your war criminals are not any better and commited terrible crime against my people (and yet they are all free and run Kosovo policy, at least serbian war criminals are not ruling Serbia). But unlike you I never called you and your people a butchers. The crime is crime and it seem that each nation sees only the crimes that are made against them and suffer only for its own victims. But such is life I would say. The acctual answer is that I understand your fears and waht I am sure at the moment is that Serbs actually do not want to rule out Kosovo. It is not in our interest, perhaps only northern part. The another thing is that if you get that wide autonmomy I am certain that Serbia wont take that status away as Milosevic did. But I belong to that group of people that do not like to force things. Meaning, that if you clearly do not want to live with Serbs then OK, you have all right to make the best is suits you. But lets be honest, what do you thing to do with the remaining Serbs who do not want to live with you Albanians(for the same reasons and fears they have expirienced in the past from you) and how do you think to intagrate them. By force? Or, do you have something more sustainable and acceptable? So, each of us care of its own survival. In this posts overhere I have seen that many Albanians are ready to go in war to reach their goals, even in the case of partition. So, tell me now who is inviting whom in the war and who is the initiator. When starting the war, I address you now but also the Serbs and ask who is going to look after women, children, old people? Who is going to be there to defend them from saprats (on both sides)? The men will be runing their war for few square km's and demonstrtaing the power against each other in oreder to write new pages in the history. Be honest and tell isn't it better to find the solution by negotiating even if it means many years of negotiation. But lets each of us give up from something and contribute to the peace once for good.

Best regards

joe, like millions of other americans in 1999 you had to be shown on a map by bill clinton where kosovo even was, like millions of other americans in 1999 sitting in front of CNN you swallowed easily the lies about "genocide" of suffering "kosovars" without bothering to dig too deeply at all about the facts of what was going on there. When UN teams went into kosovo after the conflict they scoured the province and found no evidence whatsoever of mass graves or anything of the sort. Germans have shown documentaries on their TV exposing the whole justification for the agression on Yugoslavia as being based on lies. I suppose you are one of the people who finds the truth to be inconvenient

frukyy,

The negotiation is best way to reach the goals, I still believe in some civilized manners. When I spoke about Slavs, Serbs of course do belong to the Slavs, what I meant it was to ask you to be more precize when talking about butchering in order to avoid labelling all Slavs by that name. However, I was not aware (or hadn't them in mind since they are all forgiven for thier sin exept Serbs and I do not expect you to do so)of the other Slavs that you now mentioned contributed to your suffering. For sure you are right when speaking about supporting the each others side when there is common enemy. Take a look nowadays Eurosong contest (trivial example but very useful).

Now about Serbian refusal to take part in Kosovo policy,hm well, just put it this way. Serbs interprate it in a way that their participation would justifay Kosovo as a new state accepting Albanians as their leaders. Or maybe they would accept even less in the case of autonomy. What they do now is just protest that Albanians used in the past. I am sure that those who did not take a part in the war are not enadengered. Those who have blood in thier hands and commited crime will not come back for sure. They will be prosecuted in Serbia as some already did. Furthermore you said Albanians have no problems living with Serbs and I will reply that Serbs have no problem living with Albanians. So, if we can live with each other and have all respects for each others then why to split, where is the acctual problem? Think, this might be not real true or is it only about the power and ruling over the territory. And I think Serbs do offer you all the power to have in Kosovo. They just don't want you to have a seat in UN. So, that is much more than what Albanians offer to Serbs. But it is not up to me to agree or not agree on this . What I would like, honestly speaking is partition. Each side would have to give up from something which unfortanately will cause some suffering to the ordinary people but it is the only way to work. You might not agree with me and I do respect that. The staborn attitudes wont lead us anywhere and we will be enslaved in our own stupidity without any chance to make any progres towards the brighter future.

I see you are bothered by new churches built in Milosevic's time. I don't know what to say on that. Muslims are building mosks in Serbia nowadays and did not hear anyone talking against it. Perhaps the church is not in appropriate place but it was some kind of expression of K-Serbs exitance at that time, I pressume. I know where is the church since I 've been living overthere while studing at the University. I have nice memories from there and left many things overthere. Most are not valuable exept books and my diary :-(. The last time I visited Pristina, I was escorted and protected by Belgian army (used to work for them in N.Mitrovica region). Now, I can't visit it anymore becuse I am afraid. I would like to visit Kosovo again and see all these places that I used to visited. Hope, one day this might be reality.

Bmruslia:

If it was up to me Kosova will be partitioned long time ago. However without going into details if you move one border then it would be a chain reaction for the entire region to redraw the borders. I don’t really think K-Albanians care about having a seat in UN they just want to get split from Serbia. Why split when we can live together you asked my short answer is why not. Czechoslovakia didn’t have any problem yet they split. The long answer would take space but mainly and briefly is because of what Serbian regime did to the Albanian population. You pointed out the building of the mosques in Serbia and in my view this phenomenon it is even worst in Kosova. Nor churches or mosques bother me it is the intent on why they are built and by whom. So when I see a wahabis mosque worth millions of euros standing tall in my homeland it saddens me. Honestly I do not consider this “urban terrorism” as any forms of expression expect as a crime against all Kosova citizens. Instead the money should be poured into education and progress. I think there are more religious buildings in Kosova then there are Gas stations. I had Serbian friends on my youth and many of them didn’t bother to learn Albanian even though I speak perfectly Serbian (which by the way saved my life). Do I hate them because of that or because they are serbs, of course not. I hate what some of them did after Milosevic came to power. Because of the lack of status Kosova is becoming a no-man’s land and even as Albanian I am frightened to go and live there. The problem is mostly economic and corruption where with a little money you are above the law. Now if you want really to visit Kosovo I can arrange that and truly guarantee your security with my life. Maybe that would bring some new perspective views for you and your peers.

Bmruslia:

If it was up to me Kosova will be partitioned long time ago. However without going into details if you move one border then it would be a chain reaction for the entire region to redraw the borders. I don’t really think K-Albanians care about having a seat in UN they just want to get split from Serbia. Why split when we can live together you asked my short answer is why not. Czechoslovakia didn’t have any problem yet they split. The long answer would take space but mainly and briefly is because of what Serbian regime did to the Albanian population. You pointed out the building of the mosques in Serbia and in my view this phenomenon it is even worst in Kosova. Nor churches or mosques bother me it is the intent on why they are built and by whom. So when I see a wahabis mosque worth millions of euros standing tall in my homeland it saddens me. Honestly I do not consider this “urban terrorism” as any forms of expression expect as a crime against all Kosova citizens. Instead the money should be poured into education and progress. I think there are more religious buildings in Kosova then there are Gas stations. I had Serbian friends on my youth and many of them didn’t bother to learn Albanian even though I speak perfectly Serbian (which by the way saved my life). Do I hate them because of that or because they are serbs, of course not. I hate what some of them did after Milosevic came to power. Because of the lack of status Kosova is becoming a no-man’s land and even as Albanian I am frightened to go and live there. The problem is mostly economic and corruption where with a little money you are above the law. Now if you want really to visit Kosovo I can arrange that and truly guarantee your security with my life. Maybe that would bring some new perspective views for you and your peers.

Ahmet - KosovO is part of Serbia - never heard of kosova.

I agree wit all you said. If it is about to split, then split it, and if the chain is about to happen then let it happen. The peace should be established once for good. Otherwise, we will live lives hating each others eternally. I don't feel any hate, don't take me wrong. What I feel is just inability to make some differnces. For the religius institutions I have no comment exept that I agree. I am sorry to hear that you as an Albanian is afraid to visit and live in Kosovo, perhaps only to live which I undesrtand prefectly why. I am sorry also that Serbian friends of yours made you feel bad and if inflicted any loss .That is the thing that I will never undesrtand how friends can be become to each other's enemies.

But, lets hope for the brighter future and for the best. Btw I would really like to visit again, so I would like to use your help in oreder to feel safe while there. Thanks. I think once you left your e-amil overhere, so I feel free to contact you when I am due to visit

Doug M.,

"You do know that when the vote took place, Kosovo was under a 'state of emergency' declared by Milosevic?

"Note that this 'state of emergency' included surrounding the Assembly building with tanks, soldiers, and armed policemen."

Do you know that the SFRY Presidency (not Milosevic) declared that state of emergency because Albanian nationalists were rioting in Kosovo? And are you also aware that the Albanian rioters attacked government buildings, which was why the army had to guard every government building in Kosovo including the assembly building?

The army wasn't there to threaten the members of the Assembly into voting a certain way -- the army was there to protect the building from the rampaging mobs of Kosovo-Albanians, who had killed about 10 people in the month before the vote.