39

Tuesday, 30.10.2007.

13:41

Belgrade rejects Ischinger Kosovo idea

Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica has announced his participation in the November 5 Kosovo talks in Vienna.

Izvor: Tanjug

Belgrade rejects Ischinger Kosovo idea IMAGE SOURCE
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39 Komentari

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Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Peggy - I think the Serb "freedom fighters" that are filling up the Hague tribunals have done all the hard job at losing Kosovo, there's no need for more efforts.

Ron - What promise?

There's nothing in 1244 that says that Kosovo cannot declare independence. There is nothing in 1244 that says that other countries cannot recognize Kosovo's independence.

And the declaration of independence cannot be stopped by no one, just like it's recognition cannot be stopped by no one.

Sure, Russia, China, Greece and Congo might not recognize...but there's plenty of others out there who are stating and re-stating that they will.

Everything is still perfectly legal.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

I you were right why isn't there a reality of an independence Tibet now?

And again: why you accept autonomy (1244) but want to get it all now (independence)?

Why are you breaking your promise?

Peggy

pre 16 godina

Funcakes, I never said that I could stop independence, but there are those out there that can.
And if anyone is in denial, it is you.
Can't you see by now that if your precious US could deliver this gift to you they would've?
What's stopping it? What's holding it up?
Russia and China is not all that's stopping you. There are many more determined not to allow it.

Face it, you will have to send a few more freedom fighters to Fort Dix and then they might get the message.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Ron, Peggy - 1244, UNSC and whoever cannot stop the declaration of independence or it's recognition. Enough said!

Don't go around talking in loops and circles of denial, when the simple reality is getting closer by the day.

GSP

pre 16 godina

True indeed, Ahmet, but the bottom line is if you hadn't invaded & desecrated our HOLY monestaries, kick us off our land, etc, etc - we wouldn't be in the position we are in today.

torcida

pre 16 godina

Nothing new here. Same scenarios again and again and Serbia doesn't seem to learn from the mistakes from the past no matter who's in power.

It goes a little like this:
1. West comes up with proposal that Serbia doesn't like - Serbia rejects it without giving it a thought.

2. West imposes a solution which is far worse than that proposal in the form of an ultimatum - Serbia's got no choice but to accept it.


I bet, if they knew it was gonna end up like this, they would wholeheartedly accept the Z4 agreement in Croatia or the Rambouillet in Kosova. But I guess we're just lucky that Serbia's never had the brightest politicians

ahmet isufi

pre 16 godina

GSP said Albanians comitted crime againts a church. One think GPS,Serbs comitted crimes against humanity and comparing one building with war crimes, what a shame.

johny

pre 16 godina

The Albanians in Kosovo declared independence unilatery in 1980 already, nothing new there.
(Jonas, 30. October 2007 15:52)

Then why are the Serbs doing the impossible to stop Albanians from declaring it again on Dec 11. Something must be different this time around I guess.

P.S It is a 100 times better to be in a status similar to Northern Cyprus by the West than for them to see us as part of Serbia. Anything and I mean anything is better than being under Serbia even if that is just nominal.

Peggy

pre 16 godina

Funcakes, the statement you made "Does this guy not understand FULL INDEPENDENCE?" is laugable.
Yes, everyone understands FULL INDEPENDENCE but they are not willing to grant it for you.

Dane, You statement "I wonder when will Serbia present it's real proposal"?
What proposal would that be in your mind? Is there another proposal that only you know?

Teni wrote. People are entitled to change their minds, aren't they?
Sure people can change their minds about what to wear or what to have for dinner, but when it comes to binding contrancts and legal agreements (especially in the UN) I say NO.
Next time read the proposal more carefully before you sign.
If we had every race of people trying to void the agreement they made we would have chaos around the world.

If you dont'want to honour the existing agreement why should the UN trust you to honour any future agreements?

GSP

pre 16 godina

Who really cares what was "declared" in 1980. POint being - no matter what - KosovO is part of Serbia & there is no negotiation. The albanians have proven that they are 100% a peaceful resolution due to the crimes committed against a church. The whole world is watching!!

Wassberg

pre 16 godina

Ischinger needs to be updated on the history of Germany. West Germany's internationally recognised borders were those of the three former protective zones of France, the UK and the US. It never included East Germany. Only West German politicians thought that East Germany belonged to West Germany. The analogy with Germany would be if Serbia claimed that Bosnia, say, was part of Serbia, so that Serbia refused to recognise Bosnia as an independent state.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

You say: 1244 has no power anymore?
Would you say the same if 1244 would have stated an independent Kosovo?

The deal was autonomy. If Kosovo wanted full independence they should have rejected 1244 in 1999. Now the deal is made!

To Joe:

Well, France, Holland.... I am glad I live in Western Europe. And Kosovo is VERY FAR from ever joining the EU!

Joe

pre 16 godina

Ron,

Dutch in France? I understand their happiness. If I were Dutch I would also prefer to live in France and not in Holland because of the quality of life.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Leave 1244 and UNSC out of this, they have no power over this matter anymore.

Neither 1244 or UNSC can stop the declaration of independence or the recognition of independence.

That's why, this Troika proposal is worthless. Independence will not be discussed, period.

The Troika needs to focus on what deal will be reached for the Serbian minority in Kosovo, based on the Ahtisaari plan and the Friendship Treaty.

Joe

pre 16 godina

Yes Tex Willer, this boring and impuissant game of Belgrade will come to an end. Their so-colled "rejections" will simply be ignored. This comady lasted enough.

Dragan

pre 16 godina

To the albanian who responded to Kate and Ron:

We Serbs have never said that 'Kosova is a Serbian province'. Kosova are Gussii people who inhabit the Kisii district of western Kenya.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisii_people
We have never ever claimed that this was Serbian land, so get your facts straight.

Ron, you are not annoying at all. In fact your posts put a smile on the face of every person out there who is seeking truth and justice. Same goes for Kate. Keep on doing what you are doing, and telling the truth. We are not afraid of the truth, the albanians are. Here is more truth for everyone from Canadian ambasador James Bissett.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=375

Hermon

pre 16 godina

1244, 1244, 1244
Sometimes I even confuse this with my appartment number.
Wake up people. Resolution 1244 is not the Bible. Thousands of resolutions replace are being signed and voided everyday.
What it matters is the free will of the people.
When people of Kosova say INDEPENDENCE, all we have to do is say AMEN.
And Ron, dont flatter yourself by comparing Serbia to France when Huge tribunal is full of serbians waiting to be sentenced for crimes against humanity.
Cannot compare apples to oranges.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Tex Willer,

Serbia is offering 95% autonomoy. The Kurds in Turkey have NOTHING.
Still, the only thing the Alabananians want is independence.
Both sides have to give up things.

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

What's your problem guys. Why are you so annoyed if somebody say something that it does not suits you? Once I said, you really lack a sense of selfcriticism. Btw, in best case, Kosovo tragedy will be ended by partition. You wont get everything that is for sure. Otherwise, i have doubts in independence becuase if it was that easy to violate the low the independence would already take place long time ago and would be recognized by all relevant EU, USA factors. Seem there is some tiny problem that restrain the plans. Sorry, maybe in some forthcoming years, decades this happens.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Nothing new here it would seem. Thought I'd leave it for a few days and see if things will change, obviously not.

I can see no one is taking the Troika seriously (neither Albanians nor Serbs), Kosovo will declare independence, some will recognize, some won't, we will still have no solution to the problem and Europe will have its own Israel-Palestine problem.

What an idiotic situation this is: it is obvious no one wants to compromise so there is no point in further talks, but on the other hand, a solution will have to be found and neither side will never accept anything other than what they initially started out with.

What do you do?

miri

pre 16 godina

Maybe Samardzic should be reminded that, at the end, no-one asked Germany whether wanted to be divided or not.
This can give him some hint on what is about to happen soon.

Nicosia

pre 16 godina

From the very begining of mr Ishinger's idea, I realy didn't understand what paralel he noticed between intra German and inter Belkans situation. This can be paralel for Kosovo-Albania relations, not at all Serbian-Kosovar relations. Somebody has to be brave to tell Abania and Albanians independency of Kosovo is impossible. I was hoping mr Ishinger is the right person, but it seems - not.

kate

pre 16 godina

A note to whoever has signed off '@kate':

If you want to attempt to pinch my 'nom de net' you had better improve your spelling and grammar. I am sure that Ron, Mike, Princip, Pyrros, Jonas or any of the other anti-independence camp, are generally far too educated to fall for your rather clumsy ploy.

Not that I'm knocking anyone speaking English as a 2nd language. Hats off to you, but don't start using my name, thanks very much.

EA

pre 16 godina

"Kosovo is not such a case. It is a province within Serbia under international UN administration, and its status will be set during the negotiations conducted within the Resolution 1244 framework," Samardžić stressed
That is the true face of the state of afair between Serbia and Kosova. That is why I have insisted so many times here that these "negotiations" are a waste of time. A question for the Serbian panel. Do you really think that if these "negotiations" continue for 120 years you will change mind? It is interesting thought that Serbia is rejecting every offer by the international community. Isn't it the time to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?

Nikola

pre 16 godina

Serbia along with Russia, China, and even India... and plus all the countries they influence will not recognize Kosovo... a anti U.S. Latin America will not recognize it... the peaceful countreis in Africa and Asia will not recognize it...

Kosovo at BEST for the west will turn into a northern Cyprus.. and NOTHING more

teni

pre 16 godina

Kate: people are entitled to change their minds aren't they? And as far as Albanians are concerned, whatever you think, they have been very consistent from day one. They always asked for independence and now they are gonna get it. I am only sorry that you, Ron and some other guys here are gonna be disappointed, but that's a price I am very happy to pay. In any case if you want to do something about it I suggest you pitch your tents in front of the nearest US, French or British embassy, to vent you frustration if nothing else.

And Ron: the Serbs are not happy in Serbia, let alone the K-Albanians who miss them like the plague. Just have a look at the Hungarians and Sandzak Muslims: they all want to leave Serbia like one abandons a sinking ship so why in the world should the Albanians go back?
And the fact that you even try to compare the situation of minorities in France and Holland with that of minorities in Serbia shows either that you are extremely naive or that you haven't got a clue on the situation in this region. (Don't remember the Dutch ever committing ethnic cleansing in Friesland for instance.)

@kate

pre 16 godina

you're right. With that said, America is part of Great Britain because it declared independence "illegally" over 200 years ago.

The only people who keep repeating washed up propaganda is you serbs, "Kosova is a Serbian province."

Ron, you seriousl are becoming annoying by the day with your comments.

Tex Willer

pre 16 godina

Belgrade reject, reject and agin reject, please push the buton for this tape to eject.
Why this rejects, when something will be acceptable for Serbia? Never!!!!!!
Kosovars will declare INDEPENDENCE if not in December 2007 than in Aprill or May 2008.
Soon or later Kosovo will be independence.

Mr. Samardjic from now you are Mister No from comics book.

kate

pre 16 godina

The suggestion is ridiculous.

Despite the never ending statements on this site that independence is a done deal, Kosovo remains part of Serbia and there has to be agreement by Serbia for any proposals put forward.

If the UN and Kosovo were not happy with the territorial integrity stipulated when Resolution 1244 was signed they should have stated it at the time.

Anyway it is viewed, the resolution cannot be overlooked, international laws bypassed, and territory illegally seized and handed over just to keep one ethnic group happy.

It is not going to happen.

Pyrros

pre 16 godina

If the widest form of autonomy found anywhere in the world does not fit the albanian tastes, then your every argument becomes weaker and weaker.

Albanians want a crime heaven
funded by USA. period. You wont have it.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

You are funny indeed. We all know 1244 only talks about autonomy.

Kosovo is just a Serbian province. Like the Dutch speaking part of France is just an area of France. Still, people there can be happy. So can you in Serbia!

Jonas

pre 16 godina

Albania is already independent. Kosovo is a Serb province that Albanians with the help of the Americans are trying to steal. First they bombed Serbia for 78 days and then they are not respecting UN resolution 1244 that they signed and obliged to follow.

Only with a legal framework can Kosovo move towards a better future and the only legal solution is some kind of automony. The Albanians in Kosovo declared independence unilatery in 1980 already, nothing new there.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Wow,

Belgrade is being really constructive, and willing to compromise, isn't it?

I have never heard of a more hypocritical and illogical stance, 'we will be flexible, only if we get what we want!'.

ahmet isufi

pre 16 godina

No matter which way you turn the bottom line is Independence. As Head of EU in Troika said as two separate countries. You get it guys.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Why would they want to be unrecognized, when they have all this support for recognition?

And why exactly would they not be recognize, but keep being punished for being part of what they consider a sadistic country.

And furthermore, why is old politics being viewed as an option?

This guy needs to be fired, get a new Troika.

Does this guy not understand FULL INDEPENDENCE? The only terms that will be discussed with Serbia are how the Serb minority issue and the monastaries will be handled.

Anything else is beyond the Troika's reach.

Dane

pre 16 godina

I hope we can all agree at least at one: we are all tired from this game and rejects of Serbia. I wonder when will Serbia present its 'real' proposal?!?!?! Or it is such unrealistic, they don't dare to present it and they have decided to not present it at all??? Otherwise, we are all aware that Kosovo is at its irreversible way of independence... Good luck Kosovo on your own way...

Jovan

pre 16 godina

why should Serbia accept such an idea?

Kosovo won´t be independent, so, what for should they agree on good neighbourly relations?
that can be created within Serbia as well, no need to recognise a pseudo-independence by accepting such a lousy trick!

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

You are funny indeed. We all know 1244 only talks about autonomy.

Kosovo is just a Serbian province. Like the Dutch speaking part of France is just an area of France. Still, people there can be happy. So can you in Serbia!

Pyrros

pre 16 godina

If the widest form of autonomy found anywhere in the world does not fit the albanian tastes, then your every argument becomes weaker and weaker.

Albanians want a crime heaven
funded by USA. period. You wont have it.

kate

pre 16 godina

The suggestion is ridiculous.

Despite the never ending statements on this site that independence is a done deal, Kosovo remains part of Serbia and there has to be agreement by Serbia for any proposals put forward.

If the UN and Kosovo were not happy with the territorial integrity stipulated when Resolution 1244 was signed they should have stated it at the time.

Anyway it is viewed, the resolution cannot be overlooked, international laws bypassed, and territory illegally seized and handed over just to keep one ethnic group happy.

It is not going to happen.

ahmet isufi

pre 16 godina

No matter which way you turn the bottom line is Independence. As Head of EU in Troika said as two separate countries. You get it guys.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

why should Serbia accept such an idea?

Kosovo won´t be independent, so, what for should they agree on good neighbourly relations?
that can be created within Serbia as well, no need to recognise a pseudo-independence by accepting such a lousy trick!

Jonas

pre 16 godina

Albania is already independent. Kosovo is a Serb province that Albanians with the help of the Americans are trying to steal. First they bombed Serbia for 78 days and then they are not respecting UN resolution 1244 that they signed and obliged to follow.

Only with a legal framework can Kosovo move towards a better future and the only legal solution is some kind of automony. The Albanians in Kosovo declared independence unilatery in 1980 already, nothing new there.

Nikola

pre 16 godina

Serbia along with Russia, China, and even India... and plus all the countries they influence will not recognize Kosovo... a anti U.S. Latin America will not recognize it... the peaceful countreis in Africa and Asia will not recognize it...

Kosovo at BEST for the west will turn into a northern Cyprus.. and NOTHING more

Dragan

pre 16 godina

To the albanian who responded to Kate and Ron:

We Serbs have never said that 'Kosova is a Serbian province'. Kosova are Gussii people who inhabit the Kisii district of western Kenya.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisii_people
We have never ever claimed that this was Serbian land, so get your facts straight.

Ron, you are not annoying at all. In fact your posts put a smile on the face of every person out there who is seeking truth and justice. Same goes for Kate. Keep on doing what you are doing, and telling the truth. We are not afraid of the truth, the albanians are. Here is more truth for everyone from Canadian ambasador James Bissett.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=375

Dane

pre 16 godina

I hope we can all agree at least at one: we are all tired from this game and rejects of Serbia. I wonder when will Serbia present its 'real' proposal?!?!?! Or it is such unrealistic, they don't dare to present it and they have decided to not present it at all??? Otherwise, we are all aware that Kosovo is at its irreversible way of independence... Good luck Kosovo on your own way...

Tex Willer

pre 16 godina

Belgrade reject, reject and agin reject, please push the buton for this tape to eject.
Why this rejects, when something will be acceptable for Serbia? Never!!!!!!
Kosovars will declare INDEPENDENCE if not in December 2007 than in Aprill or May 2008.
Soon or later Kosovo will be independence.

Mr. Samardjic from now you are Mister No from comics book.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Tex Willer,

Serbia is offering 95% autonomoy. The Kurds in Turkey have NOTHING.
Still, the only thing the Alabananians want is independence.
Both sides have to give up things.

Nicosia

pre 16 godina

From the very begining of mr Ishinger's idea, I realy didn't understand what paralel he noticed between intra German and inter Belkans situation. This can be paralel for Kosovo-Albania relations, not at all Serbian-Kosovar relations. Somebody has to be brave to tell Abania and Albanians independency of Kosovo is impossible. I was hoping mr Ishinger is the right person, but it seems - not.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

You say: 1244 has no power anymore?
Would you say the same if 1244 would have stated an independent Kosovo?

The deal was autonomy. If Kosovo wanted full independence they should have rejected 1244 in 1999. Now the deal is made!

To Joe:

Well, France, Holland.... I am glad I live in Western Europe. And Kosovo is VERY FAR from ever joining the EU!

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Why would they want to be unrecognized, when they have all this support for recognition?

And why exactly would they not be recognize, but keep being punished for being part of what they consider a sadistic country.

And furthermore, why is old politics being viewed as an option?

This guy needs to be fired, get a new Troika.

Does this guy not understand FULL INDEPENDENCE? The only terms that will be discussed with Serbia are how the Serb minority issue and the monastaries will be handled.

Anything else is beyond the Troika's reach.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Wow,

Belgrade is being really constructive, and willing to compromise, isn't it?

I have never heard of a more hypocritical and illogical stance, 'we will be flexible, only if we get what we want!'.

kate

pre 16 godina

A note to whoever has signed off '@kate':

If you want to attempt to pinch my 'nom de net' you had better improve your spelling and grammar. I am sure that Ron, Mike, Princip, Pyrros, Jonas or any of the other anti-independence camp, are generally far too educated to fall for your rather clumsy ploy.

Not that I'm knocking anyone speaking English as a 2nd language. Hats off to you, but don't start using my name, thanks very much.

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

What's your problem guys. Why are you so annoyed if somebody say something that it does not suits you? Once I said, you really lack a sense of selfcriticism. Btw, in best case, Kosovo tragedy will be ended by partition. You wont get everything that is for sure. Otherwise, i have doubts in independence becuase if it was that easy to violate the low the independence would already take place long time ago and would be recognized by all relevant EU, USA factors. Seem there is some tiny problem that restrain the plans. Sorry, maybe in some forthcoming years, decades this happens.

Peggy

pre 16 godina

Funcakes, the statement you made "Does this guy not understand FULL INDEPENDENCE?" is laugable.
Yes, everyone understands FULL INDEPENDENCE but they are not willing to grant it for you.

Dane, You statement "I wonder when will Serbia present it's real proposal"?
What proposal would that be in your mind? Is there another proposal that only you know?

Teni wrote. People are entitled to change their minds, aren't they?
Sure people can change their minds about what to wear or what to have for dinner, but when it comes to binding contrancts and legal agreements (especially in the UN) I say NO.
Next time read the proposal more carefully before you sign.
If we had every race of people trying to void the agreement they made we would have chaos around the world.

If you dont'want to honour the existing agreement why should the UN trust you to honour any future agreements?

teni

pre 16 godina

Kate: people are entitled to change their minds aren't they? And as far as Albanians are concerned, whatever you think, they have been very consistent from day one. They always asked for independence and now they are gonna get it. I am only sorry that you, Ron and some other guys here are gonna be disappointed, but that's a price I am very happy to pay. In any case if you want to do something about it I suggest you pitch your tents in front of the nearest US, French or British embassy, to vent you frustration if nothing else.

And Ron: the Serbs are not happy in Serbia, let alone the K-Albanians who miss them like the plague. Just have a look at the Hungarians and Sandzak Muslims: they all want to leave Serbia like one abandons a sinking ship so why in the world should the Albanians go back?
And the fact that you even try to compare the situation of minorities in France and Holland with that of minorities in Serbia shows either that you are extremely naive or that you haven't got a clue on the situation in this region. (Don't remember the Dutch ever committing ethnic cleansing in Friesland for instance.)

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Nothing new here it would seem. Thought I'd leave it for a few days and see if things will change, obviously not.

I can see no one is taking the Troika seriously (neither Albanians nor Serbs), Kosovo will declare independence, some will recognize, some won't, we will still have no solution to the problem and Europe will have its own Israel-Palestine problem.

What an idiotic situation this is: it is obvious no one wants to compromise so there is no point in further talks, but on the other hand, a solution will have to be found and neither side will never accept anything other than what they initially started out with.

What do you do?

GSP

pre 16 godina

Who really cares what was "declared" in 1980. POint being - no matter what - KosovO is part of Serbia & there is no negotiation. The albanians have proven that they are 100% a peaceful resolution due to the crimes committed against a church. The whole world is watching!!

@kate

pre 16 godina

you're right. With that said, America is part of Great Britain because it declared independence "illegally" over 200 years ago.

The only people who keep repeating washed up propaganda is you serbs, "Kosova is a Serbian province."

Ron, you seriousl are becoming annoying by the day with your comments.

EA

pre 16 godina

"Kosovo is not such a case. It is a province within Serbia under international UN administration, and its status will be set during the negotiations conducted within the Resolution 1244 framework," Samardžić stressed
That is the true face of the state of afair between Serbia and Kosova. That is why I have insisted so many times here that these "negotiations" are a waste of time. A question for the Serbian panel. Do you really think that if these "negotiations" continue for 120 years you will change mind? It is interesting thought that Serbia is rejecting every offer by the international community. Isn't it the time to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?

Hermon

pre 16 godina

1244, 1244, 1244
Sometimes I even confuse this with my appartment number.
Wake up people. Resolution 1244 is not the Bible. Thousands of resolutions replace are being signed and voided everyday.
What it matters is the free will of the people.
When people of Kosova say INDEPENDENCE, all we have to do is say AMEN.
And Ron, dont flatter yourself by comparing Serbia to France when Huge tribunal is full of serbians waiting to be sentenced for crimes against humanity.
Cannot compare apples to oranges.

GSP

pre 16 godina

True indeed, Ahmet, but the bottom line is if you hadn't invaded & desecrated our HOLY monestaries, kick us off our land, etc, etc - we wouldn't be in the position we are in today.

Joe

pre 16 godina

Yes Tex Willer, this boring and impuissant game of Belgrade will come to an end. Their so-colled "rejections" will simply be ignored. This comady lasted enough.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Leave 1244 and UNSC out of this, they have no power over this matter anymore.

Neither 1244 or UNSC can stop the declaration of independence or the recognition of independence.

That's why, this Troika proposal is worthless. Independence will not be discussed, period.

The Troika needs to focus on what deal will be reached for the Serbian minority in Kosovo, based on the Ahtisaari plan and the Friendship Treaty.

Wassberg

pre 16 godina

Ischinger needs to be updated on the history of Germany. West Germany's internationally recognised borders were those of the three former protective zones of France, the UK and the US. It never included East Germany. Only West German politicians thought that East Germany belonged to West Germany. The analogy with Germany would be if Serbia claimed that Bosnia, say, was part of Serbia, so that Serbia refused to recognise Bosnia as an independent state.

miri

pre 16 godina

Maybe Samardzic should be reminded that, at the end, no-one asked Germany whether wanted to be divided or not.
This can give him some hint on what is about to happen soon.

Joe

pre 16 godina

Ron,

Dutch in France? I understand their happiness. If I were Dutch I would also prefer to live in France and not in Holland because of the quality of life.

johny

pre 16 godina

The Albanians in Kosovo declared independence unilatery in 1980 already, nothing new there.
(Jonas, 30. October 2007 15:52)

Then why are the Serbs doing the impossible to stop Albanians from declaring it again on Dec 11. Something must be different this time around I guess.

P.S It is a 100 times better to be in a status similar to Northern Cyprus by the West than for them to see us as part of Serbia. Anything and I mean anything is better than being under Serbia even if that is just nominal.

ahmet isufi

pre 16 godina

GSP said Albanians comitted crime againts a church. One think GPS,Serbs comitted crimes against humanity and comparing one building with war crimes, what a shame.

torcida

pre 16 godina

Nothing new here. Same scenarios again and again and Serbia doesn't seem to learn from the mistakes from the past no matter who's in power.

It goes a little like this:
1. West comes up with proposal that Serbia doesn't like - Serbia rejects it without giving it a thought.

2. West imposes a solution which is far worse than that proposal in the form of an ultimatum - Serbia's got no choice but to accept it.


I bet, if they knew it was gonna end up like this, they would wholeheartedly accept the Z4 agreement in Croatia or the Rambouillet in Kosova. But I guess we're just lucky that Serbia's never had the brightest politicians

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Ron, Peggy - 1244, UNSC and whoever cannot stop the declaration of independence or it's recognition. Enough said!

Don't go around talking in loops and circles of denial, when the simple reality is getting closer by the day.

Peggy

pre 16 godina

Funcakes, I never said that I could stop independence, but there are those out there that can.
And if anyone is in denial, it is you.
Can't you see by now that if your precious US could deliver this gift to you they would've?
What's stopping it? What's holding it up?
Russia and China is not all that's stopping you. There are many more determined not to allow it.

Face it, you will have to send a few more freedom fighters to Fort Dix and then they might get the message.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

I you were right why isn't there a reality of an independence Tibet now?

And again: why you accept autonomy (1244) but want to get it all now (independence)?

Why are you breaking your promise?

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Peggy - I think the Serb "freedom fighters" that are filling up the Hague tribunals have done all the hard job at losing Kosovo, there's no need for more efforts.

Ron - What promise?

There's nothing in 1244 that says that Kosovo cannot declare independence. There is nothing in 1244 that says that other countries cannot recognize Kosovo's independence.

And the declaration of independence cannot be stopped by no one, just like it's recognition cannot be stopped by no one.

Sure, Russia, China, Greece and Congo might not recognize...but there's plenty of others out there who are stating and re-stating that they will.

Everything is still perfectly legal.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Wow,

Belgrade is being really constructive, and willing to compromise, isn't it?

I have never heard of a more hypocritical and illogical stance, 'we will be flexible, only if we get what we want!'.

ahmet isufi

pre 16 godina

No matter which way you turn the bottom line is Independence. As Head of EU in Troika said as two separate countries. You get it guys.

kate

pre 16 godina

The suggestion is ridiculous.

Despite the never ending statements on this site that independence is a done deal, Kosovo remains part of Serbia and there has to be agreement by Serbia for any proposals put forward.

If the UN and Kosovo were not happy with the territorial integrity stipulated when Resolution 1244 was signed they should have stated it at the time.

Anyway it is viewed, the resolution cannot be overlooked, international laws bypassed, and territory illegally seized and handed over just to keep one ethnic group happy.

It is not going to happen.

@kate

pre 16 godina

you're right. With that said, America is part of Great Britain because it declared independence "illegally" over 200 years ago.

The only people who keep repeating washed up propaganda is you serbs, "Kosova is a Serbian province."

Ron, you seriousl are becoming annoying by the day with your comments.

Dane

pre 16 godina

I hope we can all agree at least at one: we are all tired from this game and rejects of Serbia. I wonder when will Serbia present its 'real' proposal?!?!?! Or it is such unrealistic, they don't dare to present it and they have decided to not present it at all??? Otherwise, we are all aware that Kosovo is at its irreversible way of independence... Good luck Kosovo on your own way...

Tex Willer

pre 16 godina

Belgrade reject, reject and agin reject, please push the buton for this tape to eject.
Why this rejects, when something will be acceptable for Serbia? Never!!!!!!
Kosovars will declare INDEPENDENCE if not in December 2007 than in Aprill or May 2008.
Soon or later Kosovo will be independence.

Mr. Samardjic from now you are Mister No from comics book.

teni

pre 16 godina

Kate: people are entitled to change their minds aren't they? And as far as Albanians are concerned, whatever you think, they have been very consistent from day one. They always asked for independence and now they are gonna get it. I am only sorry that you, Ron and some other guys here are gonna be disappointed, but that's a price I am very happy to pay. In any case if you want to do something about it I suggest you pitch your tents in front of the nearest US, French or British embassy, to vent you frustration if nothing else.

And Ron: the Serbs are not happy in Serbia, let alone the K-Albanians who miss them like the plague. Just have a look at the Hungarians and Sandzak Muslims: they all want to leave Serbia like one abandons a sinking ship so why in the world should the Albanians go back?
And the fact that you even try to compare the situation of minorities in France and Holland with that of minorities in Serbia shows either that you are extremely naive or that you haven't got a clue on the situation in this region. (Don't remember the Dutch ever committing ethnic cleansing in Friesland for instance.)

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Why would they want to be unrecognized, when they have all this support for recognition?

And why exactly would they not be recognize, but keep being punished for being part of what they consider a sadistic country.

And furthermore, why is old politics being viewed as an option?

This guy needs to be fired, get a new Troika.

Does this guy not understand FULL INDEPENDENCE? The only terms that will be discussed with Serbia are how the Serb minority issue and the monastaries will be handled.

Anything else is beyond the Troika's reach.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

why should Serbia accept such an idea?

Kosovo won´t be independent, so, what for should they agree on good neighbourly relations?
that can be created within Serbia as well, no need to recognise a pseudo-independence by accepting such a lousy trick!

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

You are funny indeed. We all know 1244 only talks about autonomy.

Kosovo is just a Serbian province. Like the Dutch speaking part of France is just an area of France. Still, people there can be happy. So can you in Serbia!

Pyrros

pre 16 godina

If the widest form of autonomy found anywhere in the world does not fit the albanian tastes, then your every argument becomes weaker and weaker.

Albanians want a crime heaven
funded by USA. period. You wont have it.

Jonas

pre 16 godina

Albania is already independent. Kosovo is a Serb province that Albanians with the help of the Americans are trying to steal. First they bombed Serbia for 78 days and then they are not respecting UN resolution 1244 that they signed and obliged to follow.

Only with a legal framework can Kosovo move towards a better future and the only legal solution is some kind of automony. The Albanians in Kosovo declared independence unilatery in 1980 already, nothing new there.

EA

pre 16 godina

"Kosovo is not such a case. It is a province within Serbia under international UN administration, and its status will be set during the negotiations conducted within the Resolution 1244 framework," Samardžić stressed
That is the true face of the state of afair between Serbia and Kosova. That is why I have insisted so many times here that these "negotiations" are a waste of time. A question for the Serbian panel. Do you really think that if these "negotiations" continue for 120 years you will change mind? It is interesting thought that Serbia is rejecting every offer by the international community. Isn't it the time to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?

kate

pre 16 godina

A note to whoever has signed off '@kate':

If you want to attempt to pinch my 'nom de net' you had better improve your spelling and grammar. I am sure that Ron, Mike, Princip, Pyrros, Jonas or any of the other anti-independence camp, are generally far too educated to fall for your rather clumsy ploy.

Not that I'm knocking anyone speaking English as a 2nd language. Hats off to you, but don't start using my name, thanks very much.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Leave 1244 and UNSC out of this, they have no power over this matter anymore.

Neither 1244 or UNSC can stop the declaration of independence or the recognition of independence.

That's why, this Troika proposal is worthless. Independence will not be discussed, period.

The Troika needs to focus on what deal will be reached for the Serbian minority in Kosovo, based on the Ahtisaari plan and the Friendship Treaty.

Hermon

pre 16 godina

1244, 1244, 1244
Sometimes I even confuse this with my appartment number.
Wake up people. Resolution 1244 is not the Bible. Thousands of resolutions replace are being signed and voided everyday.
What it matters is the free will of the people.
When people of Kosova say INDEPENDENCE, all we have to do is say AMEN.
And Ron, dont flatter yourself by comparing Serbia to France when Huge tribunal is full of serbians waiting to be sentenced for crimes against humanity.
Cannot compare apples to oranges.

Joe

pre 16 godina

Ron,

Dutch in France? I understand their happiness. If I were Dutch I would also prefer to live in France and not in Holland because of the quality of life.

miri

pre 16 godina

Maybe Samardzic should be reminded that, at the end, no-one asked Germany whether wanted to be divided or not.
This can give him some hint on what is about to happen soon.

Joe

pre 16 godina

Yes Tex Willer, this boring and impuissant game of Belgrade will come to an end. Their so-colled "rejections" will simply be ignored. This comady lasted enough.

Nikola

pre 16 godina

Serbia along with Russia, China, and even India... and plus all the countries they influence will not recognize Kosovo... a anti U.S. Latin America will not recognize it... the peaceful countreis in Africa and Asia will not recognize it...

Kosovo at BEST for the west will turn into a northern Cyprus.. and NOTHING more

Peggy

pre 16 godina

Funcakes, the statement you made "Does this guy not understand FULL INDEPENDENCE?" is laugable.
Yes, everyone understands FULL INDEPENDENCE but they are not willing to grant it for you.

Dane, You statement "I wonder when will Serbia present it's real proposal"?
What proposal would that be in your mind? Is there another proposal that only you know?

Teni wrote. People are entitled to change their minds, aren't they?
Sure people can change their minds about what to wear or what to have for dinner, but when it comes to binding contrancts and legal agreements (especially in the UN) I say NO.
Next time read the proposal more carefully before you sign.
If we had every race of people trying to void the agreement they made we would have chaos around the world.

If you dont'want to honour the existing agreement why should the UN trust you to honour any future agreements?

ahmet isufi

pre 16 godina

GSP said Albanians comitted crime againts a church. One think GPS,Serbs comitted crimes against humanity and comparing one building with war crimes, what a shame.

torcida

pre 16 godina

Nothing new here. Same scenarios again and again and Serbia doesn't seem to learn from the mistakes from the past no matter who's in power.

It goes a little like this:
1. West comes up with proposal that Serbia doesn't like - Serbia rejects it without giving it a thought.

2. West imposes a solution which is far worse than that proposal in the form of an ultimatum - Serbia's got no choice but to accept it.


I bet, if they knew it was gonna end up like this, they would wholeheartedly accept the Z4 agreement in Croatia or the Rambouillet in Kosova. But I guess we're just lucky that Serbia's never had the brightest politicians

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Ron, Peggy - 1244, UNSC and whoever cannot stop the declaration of independence or it's recognition. Enough said!

Don't go around talking in loops and circles of denial, when the simple reality is getting closer by the day.

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

What's your problem guys. Why are you so annoyed if somebody say something that it does not suits you? Once I said, you really lack a sense of selfcriticism. Btw, in best case, Kosovo tragedy will be ended by partition. You wont get everything that is for sure. Otherwise, i have doubts in independence becuase if it was that easy to violate the low the independence would already take place long time ago and would be recognized by all relevant EU, USA factors. Seem there is some tiny problem that restrain the plans. Sorry, maybe in some forthcoming years, decades this happens.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Tex Willer,

Serbia is offering 95% autonomoy. The Kurds in Turkey have NOTHING.
Still, the only thing the Alabananians want is independence.
Both sides have to give up things.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Nothing new here it would seem. Thought I'd leave it for a few days and see if things will change, obviously not.

I can see no one is taking the Troika seriously (neither Albanians nor Serbs), Kosovo will declare independence, some will recognize, some won't, we will still have no solution to the problem and Europe will have its own Israel-Palestine problem.

What an idiotic situation this is: it is obvious no one wants to compromise so there is no point in further talks, but on the other hand, a solution will have to be found and neither side will never accept anything other than what they initially started out with.

What do you do?

Nicosia

pre 16 godina

From the very begining of mr Ishinger's idea, I realy didn't understand what paralel he noticed between intra German and inter Belkans situation. This can be paralel for Kosovo-Albania relations, not at all Serbian-Kosovar relations. Somebody has to be brave to tell Abania and Albanians independency of Kosovo is impossible. I was hoping mr Ishinger is the right person, but it seems - not.

Dragan

pre 16 godina

To the albanian who responded to Kate and Ron:

We Serbs have never said that 'Kosova is a Serbian province'. Kosova are Gussii people who inhabit the Kisii district of western Kenya.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisii_people
We have never ever claimed that this was Serbian land, so get your facts straight.

Ron, you are not annoying at all. In fact your posts put a smile on the face of every person out there who is seeking truth and justice. Same goes for Kate. Keep on doing what you are doing, and telling the truth. We are not afraid of the truth, the albanians are. Here is more truth for everyone from Canadian ambasador James Bissett.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=375

Wassberg

pre 16 godina

Ischinger needs to be updated on the history of Germany. West Germany's internationally recognised borders were those of the three former protective zones of France, the UK and the US. It never included East Germany. Only West German politicians thought that East Germany belonged to West Germany. The analogy with Germany would be if Serbia claimed that Bosnia, say, was part of Serbia, so that Serbia refused to recognise Bosnia as an independent state.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

You say: 1244 has no power anymore?
Would you say the same if 1244 would have stated an independent Kosovo?

The deal was autonomy. If Kosovo wanted full independence they should have rejected 1244 in 1999. Now the deal is made!

To Joe:

Well, France, Holland.... I am glad I live in Western Europe. And Kosovo is VERY FAR from ever joining the EU!

GSP

pre 16 godina

Who really cares what was "declared" in 1980. POint being - no matter what - KosovO is part of Serbia & there is no negotiation. The albanians have proven that they are 100% a peaceful resolution due to the crimes committed against a church. The whole world is watching!!

johny

pre 16 godina

The Albanians in Kosovo declared independence unilatery in 1980 already, nothing new there.
(Jonas, 30. October 2007 15:52)

Then why are the Serbs doing the impossible to stop Albanians from declaring it again on Dec 11. Something must be different this time around I guess.

P.S It is a 100 times better to be in a status similar to Northern Cyprus by the West than for them to see us as part of Serbia. Anything and I mean anything is better than being under Serbia even if that is just nominal.

GSP

pre 16 godina

True indeed, Ahmet, but the bottom line is if you hadn't invaded & desecrated our HOLY monestaries, kick us off our land, etc, etc - we wouldn't be in the position we are in today.

Peggy

pre 16 godina

Funcakes, I never said that I could stop independence, but there are those out there that can.
And if anyone is in denial, it is you.
Can't you see by now that if your precious US could deliver this gift to you they would've?
What's stopping it? What's holding it up?
Russia and China is not all that's stopping you. There are many more determined not to allow it.

Face it, you will have to send a few more freedom fighters to Fort Dix and then they might get the message.

Ron

pre 16 godina

Funcakes,

I you were right why isn't there a reality of an independence Tibet now?

And again: why you accept autonomy (1244) but want to get it all now (independence)?

Why are you breaking your promise?

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Peggy - I think the Serb "freedom fighters" that are filling up the Hague tribunals have done all the hard job at losing Kosovo, there's no need for more efforts.

Ron - What promise?

There's nothing in 1244 that says that Kosovo cannot declare independence. There is nothing in 1244 that says that other countries cannot recognize Kosovo's independence.

And the declaration of independence cannot be stopped by no one, just like it's recognition cannot be stopped by no one.

Sure, Russia, China, Greece and Congo might not recognize...but there's plenty of others out there who are stating and re-stating that they will.

Everything is still perfectly legal.