Surroi: Independence before Christmas

Albanians do not care too much about islamism. During 93 years of occupation of Kosova, you serbs should have learned this. To be serbian, you need to be orthodox first, and speak that language which is shared by other people believing in other disciplines of religion. For us, to be albanian, doesn't matter the religious institution you follow. Our national conscience is ethnic first (you are what language you speak, like in the rest of western world). Even serb hardliners have tried really hard to identify albanians with islam, they just helped us to bold our identity as a separate one in Yugoslavia. We were the only non-slavs in this country reserved for slavs. We were persecuted the same, no matter what our religion was (my catholic family has suffered the same as the other muslim families of my neighborhood in Peja). So dear serbs, all this talk about albanians equal to muslims, is just a your attempt to identify yourselves with the exclusivity of christianism.

EA,
You get more humorous every day? Why would albanians celbrate Christmas, when the overwhelming majority are muslims. Also, where would you celebrate Christmas? In the 150 churches you destroyed? In the charred remains? What planet do you live on?

"We've been engaged in talks and we see clearly that it would have been better to have arrived at a solution through negotiations, but we cannot stay hostage to such a formula forever," Surroi was quoted as saying
That summarises everything. I would have prefared the 28th of December 2007 but I still like the idea of Proclamation at Christmas. Two joys in one day.

Precisely that smile; Because of our heritage and identetiy we cannot live under the same roof with Serbia. We have nothing in comon , but we can live side by side as neighbors as we been living for pas 7-8 years and for eter.nity

Independence before Christmans, Tibetan leader may say...

You get the point I hope. No exception for Kosovo.
If NATO had not intervened there would be no pseudo independent Kosovo now. You would be nowhere without the West. And you break your promise... the deal was autonomy. At least in Holland people are starting to get sick of the Albanians in Kosovo.

I know that Serbs would love to present all Albanians as Muslums just to denigrate the issue of Kosova. That is part of the Serbian desperation for arguments against Kosova independence. We are very tollerant people when it comes to religion but when a orthodox or muslum "priest" does Milosevic's jobs and propaganda and hide arms in Kosova.......enlighten me friend in this forum.

In my previous comment I mentioned 28 of December 2007 as my favorite day to proclaim independence. In fact I meant 28th of November 2007 instead. But we don't mind mind don't we?)

Ron,
It is the second time that you are saying
"At least in Holland people are starting to get sick of the Albanians in Kosovo.
(Ron, 28. October 2007 17:26)

First time I suggested you to retire from the forum of B92) You had a break for few days or so. Now you are complaining again from the same symptoms. We are getting really worried about you now. What is going to happen to your "army" of followers to stop Kosova's independence))). Have a great retirement and we will miss you here especially when you talk about Kurdistan and Tibet))) We got to have some fun now as Christmas is coming)

Here we go, not only did the K-Albanians destroy our churchs now they want to make a mockery of our faith. All the Albanian christians for independence be carefull what you wish for, once they destroy all of our orthodox churchs yours are next. Its only a matter of time. Deny it if you want.

Yes my dear friends!!!
Independence for Christmas. Lets not forget that Albanian's first monotheist religin is catholicism. President Rugova was even given a cathlic name of Pjeter Budi by Pope in the vaticans. We were Pagan and we became cathoilic and later some of us became orthodox christians and some muslim. It has not stopped us to love each other. I as a muslim have a cotholic name of Gjergj Kastrioti and I am proud of it. Most of muslim people in Kosova can trace in two generations a catholic in their ancestry. We are proud of it. People being muslim or orthodox does not bother Albanians. However, religion used to christen the troops before they perform ethnic clensing is a problem for Albanians and should be a problem for Serbs as well. I think when Serbija will rid itself of the war criminals, apologize to Albanians for the wrondoing there is a chance for neighborly relations. The way Serbija is acting out we need a big WALL to separate us from them. There is nothing good to come from Serbija as long as they act the way they are. I mean they owe at least an apology to inocent people. The same should be done by Albanians if needed, but considering the disproportional scale of destruction from Serbian troops, Serbs should apologize.
-As far as independence for Christmass, it is the way God wanted it. Gods army-NATO-liberated Kosova from occupation and it is from Albanians to fulfill God's duties to recognize that Christianity is embraced in Kosova and should also be an official religion of the state.

"Christmass is a Great Day to celebrate Independence of Kosova/o, it shows how really little Muslim Albanians are.

Albanians know their roots that all were Christians not so long ago."

what would your mother and father say if they knew you were saying this :)

do you say these astonishing things to appear more acceptable to europeans and americans, or do you really mean it, you dont care at all about your heritage and identity?

watching all those comments... I cannot but come to the conclusion that the Albanians posting here, are not here to lead a discussion.

they are here to provoke, spread their propaganda and finally to accuse others of things they do themselves.

I can only suppose what the reasons for such a behaviour could be.
maybe it is that they were raised in a society that still believes in anarchic-traditons of the socalled Kanun, and that is characterized by a exaggerated paternalistic education.

the B92-admins..., I can only appeal to them to finally improve the lousy journalistic style they are performing here.

articles without the mentioning of the author, articles expressing mere opinions of poeple who are known to work for organisations that are not unbiased, like the socalled ICG, a soros-paid propaganda-instrument...

and sometimes even simply misinformation.

it does not really make sense to argue with premature kids AND to waste own time with insufficient "journalism".

I will come back from time to time, but B92 lost it´s credibility in my eyes.

"Christmass is a Great Day to celebrate Independence of Kosova/o, it shows how really little Muslim Albanians are."

Associating Christmas Day with the celebration of Independence?
Sure, that is what all observant Christians would do.

From 5/8/07 Detroit Free Press newspaper..
Mufti Naim Ternava, president of the Islamic Community of Kosovo, is in Michigan as part of a visit to the U.S. to garner support for making Kosovo an independent country…
“Pray for the independence of Kosovo,” Ternava said through a translator. “Thousands of miles away from here, there are Muslim brothers in Kosovo who suffered for many, many years and who…went as shahids (martyrs) during all these sufferings [in Kosovo].”Ternava also urged the crowd to follow the teachings of Islam. “Islam is such a comprehensive religion which includes all what the family needs and what an individual needs in this world,” he said. “Help others to understand it. Teach it to others.”

"RFE/RL: Some experts say that Russia is trying to use the Kosovo issue to show off its new power vis-a-vis the United States. What are Russia's geostrategic, economic, or even emotional interests in the Balkans?

O'Brian: I think it is always hard to sort out what it is. Every Balkan negotiation, except maybe Dayton, has had the same pattern. At some point, the Serbs say they will compromise no more -- whether they are right or wrong they simply refuse to move. The West, broadly speaking, tries to mover further. The Russians say privately, "we don't agree with the Serbs, but don't make us decide against them publicly." And the solution is always the same -- it's to come up with a way forward where the Russians can criticize, but aren't forced to say "no" or to say "yes" in a public way."

This is what is going on with Serbia's "FRIENDS", Russia.

Christmass is a Great Day to celebrate Independence of Kosova/o, it shows how really little Muslim Albanians are.

Albanians know their roots that all were Christians not so long ago.
So much for the Serbian propaganda trying to label Albanians like some middle Eastern terrorists.
All they want is freedom from 100 opression from Serbia.

I applaud B92 openess and having this blog where we can express our opinions and arguments between rwo peoples.

THANK YOU

@smile & co.

It is because we care for our heritage and identity that we would love Christmas day to be the day of Independence as well. All religious holidays are enjoyed and celebrated from all Albanians regardless of their religious background, which by the way, in the case of national identity, take the second place. The main "religion" of Albanians is Albanianism.

do you say these astonishing things to appear more acceptable to europeans and americans, or do you really mean it, you dont care at all about your heritage and identity?
-----------------------------

Serbs, UNLIKE YOURSELVES we do not derive our identity from the cult we allegedly belong to

Dragan&smile
You are invited to the party just after the 10 decembre in Mother Teresa Square in Prishtina.

People, please read carefully because Surroi declared: 'Independence before Christmas'...
By the way, Albanian nation is proud for belonging to at least 3 religions and we are used to celebrate all our religious and natioal holidays together.
As per Independence Day I think it will be better to have another date than Christmas day, Christmas is enough big holiday in Kosovo for itself, although I'm not catholic or orthodox...

why make fun of EA, Gen Ceku made alot of predictions so will President Surroli. The PM will be Hashim Thaci so the safety of the Serbs in Kosovo will be guranteed because Mr Thaci is the one who really controls the KLA. If he says not to touch a hair on a head or brick on a house then it will be done. The person who runs Kosova is Hashim not Veton Surroli or Gen Ceku.

Depending on how many more direct talk meetings are there between Prishtina and Belgrade (I suspect not many), the last meeting would have to be at least a few weeks before the 10th of December threshold in order to give Troika time for the famous report.
If that’s the case, 28th of November is well within that range and technically Kosovar team would have by then fulfilled all their obligations on this round of negotiations.
I suspect that Ceku, the great tactician, will outmanoeuvre all by declaring independence on the 28th.

Christmas is an important holiday for Kosovo Albanians. During that period, heroin sales are up in Europe. It's a capitalism thing.

As far as Christianity goes, Christmas celebration and fun in Albanian means scratching the eyes out of Jesus from a fresco in a 13th Century Church.

Good lock Albaniens. Talk to each other and show readers which one of you is smarter and better in spewing the lies. Nothing fair is coming out of your writings so I would sujest to people that are comenting on Serbian side to let you continue without responding this way readers will see you for what you really are.

I must say that I been reading these coments now and then and found Serbian coments to be tolerant and inclusive. On the other hand Albaniens are only sticking to few things that they were all told to use: Independence, 100,000 dead, Serbs are killers and Americans love us. Of caurse we all know the truth now but they keep singing the same song. So let them-world know s better. Go distroy few more churches and build mask in its place.

"Why would albanians celbrate Christmas, when the overwhelming majority are muslims."
Since when was Christmas a "religiously Christian" holiday? Get over your supercilious "Christianized" egos and read your true histories. Show us the original document that proves to us Jesus was born on 12-25? Considering the fact that Constantine comes from our area, it was this caesar who authorized 12/25 the day for celebrations, and this is the reason why.. "in Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun."http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm
This is the origins of Christmas. Something our ancestors claimed for the lot of you here, now. Be honored that most Christians are in fact celebrating a really ancient astrological tradition that coincides with the equinoxes and rebirth of the northern SUN/wholly begotten by a Virgin Mother, the Almighty.


" Also, where would you celebrate Christmas?

In Pristina and Kosova..where Constantine originally celebrated his 'deemed' holiday.
"In the 150 churches you destroyed? In the charred remains?

Nope, we will celebrate Christmas as we always have, at homes with friends and family with drink, food and merrymaking, just like those Romans who made 12/25 the day for Christmas/Saturnalia celebrations.

"What planet do you live on? "

We live on this realistic plane called planet Earth. What planet do Serbs live on?

Roger7
Thank you for repeating again words of Mufti Naim Ternava. His words hold great relevance not just for Muslims.
Because of that citation I have voted for you and for Zef.
I see no contradiction with that whatsoever.

There is a freedom of practicing religion all over the world , and evyrone is free to choose , declare and practice religion . as much as i am informed , being Muslim it's not a crime , real crime is using religion in daily politics . i don't blame Serbians for being Orthodox , if they moved little bit more west when they migrate into Balkan peninsula they would be Catholics today . I blame Serbian priests for blessing Serbian paramilitary forces for killing innocent people just because they are not Orthodox ?! It's 21 century for god's sake , and Serbians should finally realize that and overcome their violante past . Maybe they should take some lessons from Albanians , 'cause even they practice 3 religions ( Muslim ,Catholic and Orthodox ), they have never fighted against each other durind history , and that's maybe the bigest achievement that Albanians can offer to modern world .

Jovan don't be angry about people provoking you allow those to speak words that have not sense enough know what happen the last time someone set a deadline about independence all the invitations cake cutting, parties at pristina etc. Let wait and see what happens and so you guys will be back crying again they did us wrong again and this is not right the albanians will cry. Yet again duped by the US and EU. Christmas time is not far off maybe i will come there for the party or maybe to watch people protest because it did not happen.

Precisely that smile; Because of our heritage and identetiy we cannot live under the same roof with Serbia. We have nothing in comon , but we can live side by side as neighbors as we been living for pas 7-8 years and for eter.nity

I know that Serbs would love to present all Albanians as Muslums just to denigrate the issue of Kosova. That is part of the Serbian desperation for arguments against Kosova independence. We are very tollerant people when it comes to religion but when a orthodox or muslum "priest" does Milosevic's jobs and propaganda and hide arms in Kosova.......enlighten me friend in this forum.

Albanians do not care too much about islamism. During 93 years of occupation of Kosova, you serbs should have learned this. To be serbian, you need to be orthodox first, and speak that language which is shared by other people believing in other disciplines of religion. For us, to be albanian, doesn't matter the religious institution you follow. Our national conscience is ethnic first (you are what language you speak, like in the rest of western world). Even serb hardliners have tried really hard to identify albanians with islam, they just helped us to bold our identity as a separate one in Yugoslavia. We were the only non-slavs in this country reserved for slavs. We were persecuted the same, no matter what our religion was (my catholic family has suffered the same as the other muslim families of my neighborhood in Peja). So dear serbs, all this talk about albanians equal to muslims, is just a your attempt to identify yourselves with the exclusivity of christianism.

"RFE/RL: Some experts say that Russia is trying to use the Kosovo issue to show off its new power vis-a-vis the United States. What are Russia's geostrategic, economic, or even emotional interests in the Balkans?

O'Brian: I think it is always hard to sort out what it is. Every Balkan negotiation, except maybe Dayton, has had the same pattern. At some point, the Serbs say they will compromise no more -- whether they are right or wrong they simply refuse to move. The West, broadly speaking, tries to mover further. The Russians say privately, "we don't agree with the Serbs, but don't make us decide against them publicly." And the solution is always the same -- it's to come up with a way forward where the Russians can criticize, but aren't forced to say "no" or to say "yes" in a public way."

This is what is going on with Serbia's "FRIENDS", Russia.

Christmass is a Great Day to celebrate Independence of Kosova/o, it shows how really little Muslim Albanians are.

Albanians know their roots that all were Christians not so long ago.
So much for the Serbian propaganda trying to label Albanians like some middle Eastern terrorists.
All they want is freedom from 100 opression from Serbia.

I applaud B92 openess and having this blog where we can express our opinions and arguments between rwo peoples.

THANK YOU

Depending on how many more direct talk meetings are there between Prishtina and Belgrade (I suspect not many), the last meeting would have to be at least a few weeks before the 10th of December threshold in order to give Troika time for the famous report.
If that’s the case, 28th of November is well within that range and technically Kosovar team would have by then fulfilled all their obligations on this round of negotiations.
I suspect that Ceku, the great tactician, will outmanoeuvre all by declaring independence on the 28th.

Independence before Christmans, Tibetan leader may say...

You get the point I hope. No exception for Kosovo.
If NATO had not intervened there would be no pseudo independent Kosovo now. You would be nowhere without the West. And you break your promise... the deal was autonomy. At least in Holland people are starting to get sick of the Albanians in Kosovo.

"Why would albanians celbrate Christmas, when the overwhelming majority are muslims."
Since when was Christmas a "religiously Christian" holiday? Get over your supercilious "Christianized" egos and read your true histories. Show us the original document that proves to us Jesus was born on 12-25? Considering the fact that Constantine comes from our area, it was this caesar who authorized 12/25 the day for celebrations, and this is the reason why.. "in Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun."http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm
This is the origins of Christmas. Something our ancestors claimed for the lot of you here, now. Be honored that most Christians are in fact celebrating a really ancient astrological tradition that coincides with the equinoxes and rebirth of the northern SUN/wholly begotten by a Virgin Mother, the Almighty.


" Also, where would you celebrate Christmas?

In Pristina and Kosova..where Constantine originally celebrated his 'deemed' holiday.
"In the 150 churches you destroyed? In the charred remains?

Nope, we will celebrate Christmas as we always have, at homes with friends and family with drink, food and merrymaking, just like those Romans who made 12/25 the day for Christmas/Saturnalia celebrations.

"What planet do you live on? "

We live on this realistic plane called planet Earth. What planet do Serbs live on?

"We've been engaged in talks and we see clearly that it would have been better to have arrived at a solution through negotiations, but we cannot stay hostage to such a formula forever," Surroi was quoted as saying
That summarises everything. I would have prefared the 28th of December 2007 but I still like the idea of Proclamation at Christmas. Two joys in one day.

Dragan&smile
You are invited to the party just after the 10 decembre in Mother Teresa Square in Prishtina.

In my previous comment I mentioned 28 of December 2007 as my favorite day to proclaim independence. In fact I meant 28th of November 2007 instead. But we don't mind mind don't we?)

Ron,
It is the second time that you are saying
"At least in Holland people are starting to get sick of the Albanians in Kosovo.
(Ron, 28. October 2007 17:26)

First time I suggested you to retire from the forum of B92) You had a break for few days or so. Now you are complaining again from the same symptoms. We are getting really worried about you now. What is going to happen to your "army" of followers to stop Kosova's independence))). Have a great retirement and we will miss you here especially when you talk about Kurdistan and Tibet))) We got to have some fun now as Christmas is coming)

Yes my dear friends!!!
Independence for Christmas. Lets not forget that Albanian's first monotheist religin is catholicism. President Rugova was even given a cathlic name of Pjeter Budi by Pope in the vaticans. We were Pagan and we became cathoilic and later some of us became orthodox christians and some muslim. It has not stopped us to love each other. I as a muslim have a cotholic name of Gjergj Kastrioti and I am proud of it. Most of muslim people in Kosova can trace in two generations a catholic in their ancestry. We are proud of it. People being muslim or orthodox does not bother Albanians. However, religion used to christen the troops before they perform ethnic clensing is a problem for Albanians and should be a problem for Serbs as well. I think when Serbija will rid itself of the war criminals, apologize to Albanians for the wrondoing there is a chance for neighborly relations. The way Serbija is acting out we need a big WALL to separate us from them. There is nothing good to come from Serbija as long as they act the way they are. I mean they owe at least an apology to inocent people. The same should be done by Albanians if needed, but considering the disproportional scale of destruction from Serbian troops, Serbs should apologize.
-As far as independence for Christmass, it is the way God wanted it. Gods army-NATO-liberated Kosova from occupation and it is from Albanians to fulfill God's duties to recognize that Christianity is embraced in Kosova and should also be an official religion of the state.

Roger7
Thank you for repeating again words of Mufti Naim Ternava. His words hold great relevance not just for Muslims.
Because of that citation I have voted for you and for Zef.
I see no contradiction with that whatsoever.

EA,
You get more humorous every day? Why would albanians celbrate Christmas, when the overwhelming majority are muslims. Also, where would you celebrate Christmas? In the 150 churches you destroyed? In the charred remains? What planet do you live on?

why make fun of EA, Gen Ceku made alot of predictions so will President Surroli. The PM will be Hashim Thaci so the safety of the Serbs in Kosovo will be guranteed because Mr Thaci is the one who really controls the KLA. If he says not to touch a hair on a head or brick on a house then it will be done. The person who runs Kosova is Hashim not Veton Surroli or Gen Ceku.

@smile & co.

It is because we care for our heritage and identity that we would love Christmas day to be the day of Independence as well. All religious holidays are enjoyed and celebrated from all Albanians regardless of their religious background, which by the way, in the case of national identity, take the second place. The main "religion" of Albanians is Albanianism.

"Christmass is a Great Day to celebrate Independence of Kosova/o, it shows how really little Muslim Albanians are.

Albanians know their roots that all were Christians not so long ago."

what would your mother and father say if they knew you were saying this :)

do you say these astonishing things to appear more acceptable to europeans and americans, or do you really mean it, you dont care at all about your heritage and identity?

do you say these astonishing things to appear more acceptable to europeans and americans, or do you really mean it, you dont care at all about your heritage and identity?
-----------------------------

Serbs, UNLIKE YOURSELVES we do not derive our identity from the cult we allegedly belong to

watching all those comments... I cannot but come to the conclusion that the Albanians posting here, are not here to lead a discussion.

they are here to provoke, spread their propaganda and finally to accuse others of things they do themselves.

I can only suppose what the reasons for such a behaviour could be.
maybe it is that they were raised in a society that still believes in anarchic-traditons of the socalled Kanun, and that is characterized by a exaggerated paternalistic education.

the B92-admins..., I can only appeal to them to finally improve the lousy journalistic style they are performing here.

articles without the mentioning of the author, articles expressing mere opinions of poeple who are known to work for organisations that are not unbiased, like the socalled ICG, a soros-paid propaganda-instrument...

and sometimes even simply misinformation.

it does not really make sense to argue with premature kids AND to waste own time with insufficient "journalism".

I will come back from time to time, but B92 lost it´s credibility in my eyes.

Here we go, not only did the K-Albanians destroy our churchs now they want to make a mockery of our faith. All the Albanian christians for independence be carefull what you wish for, once they destroy all of our orthodox churchs yours are next. Its only a matter of time. Deny it if you want.

Christmas is an important holiday for Kosovo Albanians. During that period, heroin sales are up in Europe. It's a capitalism thing.

As far as Christianity goes, Christmas celebration and fun in Albanian means scratching the eyes out of Jesus from a fresco in a 13th Century Church.

Good lock Albaniens. Talk to each other and show readers which one of you is smarter and better in spewing the lies. Nothing fair is coming out of your writings so I would sujest to people that are comenting on Serbian side to let you continue without responding this way readers will see you for what you really are.

I must say that I been reading these coments now and then and found Serbian coments to be tolerant and inclusive. On the other hand Albaniens are only sticking to few things that they were all told to use: Independence, 100,000 dead, Serbs are killers and Americans love us. Of caurse we all know the truth now but they keep singing the same song. So let them-world know s better. Go distroy few more churches and build mask in its place.

There is a freedom of practicing religion all over the world , and evyrone is free to choose , declare and practice religion . as much as i am informed , being Muslim it's not a crime , real crime is using religion in daily politics . i don't blame Serbians for being Orthodox , if they moved little bit more west when they migrate into Balkan peninsula they would be Catholics today . I blame Serbian priests for blessing Serbian paramilitary forces for killing innocent people just because they are not Orthodox ?! It's 21 century for god's sake , and Serbians should finally realize that and overcome their violante past . Maybe they should take some lessons from Albanians , 'cause even they practice 3 religions ( Muslim ,Catholic and Orthodox ), they have never fighted against each other durind history , and that's maybe the bigest achievement that Albanians can offer to modern world .

People, please read carefully because Surroi declared: 'Independence before Christmas'...
By the way, Albanian nation is proud for belonging to at least 3 religions and we are used to celebrate all our religious and natioal holidays together.
As per Independence Day I think it will be better to have another date than Christmas day, Christmas is enough big holiday in Kosovo for itself, although I'm not catholic or orthodox...

"Christmass is a Great Day to celebrate Independence of Kosova/o, it shows how really little Muslim Albanians are."

Associating Christmas Day with the celebration of Independence?
Sure, that is what all observant Christians would do.

From 5/8/07 Detroit Free Press newspaper..
Mufti Naim Ternava, president of the Islamic Community of Kosovo, is in Michigan as part of a visit to the U.S. to garner support for making Kosovo an independent country…
“Pray for the independence of Kosovo,” Ternava said through a translator. “Thousands of miles away from here, there are Muslim brothers in Kosovo who suffered for many, many years and who…went as shahids (martyrs) during all these sufferings [in Kosovo].”Ternava also urged the crowd to follow the teachings of Islam. “Islam is such a comprehensive religion which includes all what the family needs and what an individual needs in this world,” he said. “Help others to understand it. Teach it to others.”

Jovan don't be angry about people provoking you allow those to speak words that have not sense enough know what happen the last time someone set a deadline about independence all the invitations cake cutting, parties at pristina etc. Let wait and see what happens and so you guys will be back crying again they did us wrong again and this is not right the albanians will cry. Yet again duped by the US and EU. Christmas time is not far off maybe i will come there for the party or maybe to watch people protest because it did not happen.