Jeremić: UNMIK results disappointing

150 churches destroyed, Serbian property/homes stolen by albanians, people can't return to their homes... ya great job UNMIK.

I would like to ask pro-Albanians since you blame everything on Serbs in Kosovo, that completely plead innocence on the matter then what is your reasoning behind attaching Macedonian police and officials?

They had done nothing to you like Milosevic had.

Please answer this question.

For those who dont know the way Albanians are attacking Mecedonians today they were doing far worse things in Kosovo to Serbs. This has been goin on for the past 30 yrs, before Milosevic came to power. However, Albanians use Milosevic as their scape goat behind their reasoning for their independence. What was their reasoning before Milosevic was in power?

Their reasoning was terror funded by Al Qaeda .

Talking about the post is all very well and good, and I am not saying we should forget what happend, but this is about now.

And it's no secret that KFOR doesn't do a great job at protecting Serbs. It's also no

You pro-Albanians just keep repeating the same thing over and over...Milosevic, Milosevic, Milosevic...Those days are over and I think you need to understand that. Citizens of Kosovo would have much more to gain should they stay part of Serbia then independently. Though Milosevic did horrible things he is not in power anymore however the KLA members who also did equaly horrible things are still running Kosovo today. Double standard, wont you say? How are Serbs expected to live under people that hate them and have no means of protecting them. Serbs are the most vulnerable citizens of Serbia in Kosovo and there is not doubt about it. Kosovo government has done nothing to protect the Serbs yet Kosovo thinks they deserve independence. I guarantee everyone that just as Serbia has protected its Albanian, Bosnian Muslim, Croat as well as other minorities in Serbia proper over the last 8 yrs they will do the same in Kosovo. Kosovo does not deserve independence, terrorism should not be rewarded.

The Serbian "angel" is blaming UMNIK for non achieving results in Kosova. He can tell us about his achivements in undermining the stability in Kosova, the threat of his government towards the Kosovar Serbs not to participate in Kosova's institutions.

John3,

Your assertion that Kostunica must "take responsibility and apologise for [what] Serbia did in Kosovo" because "the current situation in Kosovo is the consequence of Serbia's rule" is complete nonsense.

The KLA are responsible for the current situation in Kosovo and they, along with NATO, should be the ones apoligizing to Serbia.

The only ones committing war crimes in Kosovo prior to the NATO bombing were the KLA. Just look at the Hague Tribunal's indictments for Kosovo and you'll see that the only ones indicted for Kosovo war crimes pre-dating the NATO bombing are the KLA.

The one and only war crime that Serbia was accused of BEFORE the NATO bombing was Racak, and that seems certain to have been a put-up job by the KLA.

The Hague prosecutors dropped the Racak charges against Milutinovic and the rest of the so-called "Kosovo six".

Every single war crime that any Serbian official is accused of in Kosovo is alleged to have happened DURING the NATO bombing -- NOT before.

Whatever crimes Milosevic's troops may have committed against the Kosovo-Albanians were provoked by KLA's war crimes and the NATO bombing campaign.

The thesis that "Serbia started it" is absurd when the NATO bombing and the KLA's war crimes (which have been indicted by the ICTY) pre-date any crime that Serbia is even accused of.

I agree with Jeremic - that's a first - about UNMIK and that is why I am really looking forward to Kosova's independence, and EU supervision so that K-Albanians can start building their country. UNMIK, although it has played an important role in helping Kosova get over the conflict, it has not been a great success. Their economic policy has been a disaster, e.g. there are higher taxes on Kosova than on imports from Serbia and Macedonia, and they have not managed to finish the privatization process or create new jobs which would give a boost to the economy.
I disagree with him to some extent on the marginalization issue though. There are problems of course, very serious ones, but the situation of the K-Serbs today does not even come close to what the K-Albanians went through under Milosevic, which was oppression and a sort of apartheid under the rule of a tiny Serb minority. And in any case there are approximately 100 thousand Serbs in Kosova, or about 5% of the populations. How much power or central role in governance does one give to such a small portion of the country's population? They have a quota of MPs reserved for them, they have a minister and they are gonna get autonomy. So what else are they asking for? Maybe Mr. Jeremic should also address the fact that Belgrade is doing its best to keep the Serbs marginalized, rather than place the blame squarely on the Albanians and then things might improve.

"problems with Kosova started when Milosevic annuled Kosova autonomy by also breaking unlawfully its own yugoslav constitution. Before that, there was no problem in Kosova"

mr. miri is misleading mr. gib. why? here's how it really is: there were huge demos in pristina in 1980 when jna, the army, had to intevene. milosevic grabbed power in 1987. albanians were protesting because they wanted for kosovo to be a republic, which never happened. yugoslavia had 6 republics which are all now states. and thats the final number.
for all we know, the rest of mr. miri's post may be just as untrue.

mr. gashi is misleading people here.

"It is unbeleivable how Serbia manipulates and inflates the number of the refugees. Only a few days ago the Serbian Minister for Labor and Social Policy, Rasim Ljajić, declared that Serbia has 97,000 officially registered refugees:

[link]

Now, Jeremic claims that Serbia has over 200,000 refugees only from Kosova."

refugees are people who have escaped war or natural disaster and now live in the territory of another country. they hold citizenships from other countries and are foreigners technically. that would be serbs from bosnia and croatia. serbs from kosovo are internally displaced persons, serbian citizens. they dont count toward the refugee statistic. as things are: kosovo is legally a part of serbia and as those albanians taking their passports in nis know, all residents of kosovo are serbian citizens, legally of course, they hate it, but wishes dont change what is real like the song says.

mr. gashi :) I am hell-bent on not letting you mislead people here, I don’t know what got into me :)
Here's how it is: on 27 april 1992, socialist federal republic of yugo ( the six republics thingie, you know) as far as serbia is concerned was dead, for other republics who declared independence, even earlier. Serbia and Montenegro formed federal republic of Yugoslavia on that day, a new country. only those previously holding citizenship of serbia or montenegro became citizens of srj. People who at that point or later took refuge here from Croatia and bosnia were either given citizenship- very rare, or treated as foreigner, in other words refugees. Last year serbia became independent again but that is irrelevant to this story as you can clearly see.
As for internally displaced serbs from Kosovo, I looked it up because I have no way of knowing offhand. Now nevermind jeremic, who cares about him. official unhcr stats say there are about 80,000 refugees in serbia and 206,000 internally displaced. I trust these figures after all i am a citizen of a country that is a un member :) As for the number of serbs in Kosovo, heres where you can jump in and we can work as a team to speak the truth to the whole world. if you like, quote unmik or unhcr and tell us how many there are officially.
Remember, the less serbs, the more shame on those who drove them out.

Terrorists attacked those border petrol officers. I think one of them that died was Albanian (based on his name).

Don't point fingers.

Serbian authorities don't have the moral, experience, or the authority to evaluate Kosova and its developments, especially knowing that the Western world, for the moment sees Kosova closer to European Union in achievement, at least in democratic institutions, closer than Serbia. So...this guy should go back to where he came from and work some more on his turf.

UNMIK's performance cannot be more disappointing than the Serbian rule until 1999.

When will Mr Kostunica finally distance himself openly from the way Serbia ruled Kosovo, take responsibility and apologise for Serbia did in Kosovo.

Lets not forget, the current situation in Kosovo is the consequence of Serbia's rule of its province, and it's disrespect of 2 million citizens.

To Gib: "What was their reasoning before Milosevic was in power?

Their reasoning was terror funded by Al Qaeda ."

Mister, it's no clear from what position you are talking from but it looks like you have no a clue about Kosova and its history under the Serb rule.
To answer you question on the most simplistic way, problems with Kosova started when Milosevic annuled Kosova autonomy by also breaking unlawfully its own yugoslav constitution. Before that, there was no problem in Kosova for as long as albanians were heard and respected as much as the other ethnic groups in the former Yugoslavia. Ethnic divisions always existed in Yugoslavia but Milosevic was the culprit of serb nationalism which brought yugoslavia to its demise.
Don't throw comments just for the sake of commenting and if you want to stick Al-Qaeda anywhere you feel fit then at least mention your sources where you get your information.

It is unbeleivable how Serbia manipulates and inflates the number of the refugees. Only a few days ago the Serbian Minister for Labor and Social Policy, Rasim Ljajić, declared that Serbia has 97,000 officially registered refugees:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=10&dd=22&nav_id=44785

Now, Jeremic claims that Serbia has over 200,000 refugees only from Kosova. And yet according to Serbian statistics of prior to 1999, Kosova had only 190,000 Serbs living in the province. Nearly 130,000 of those still are in the province. So the numbers just don't add up, unless Ljajic is right and Serbia has only 97,000 refugees, and of those nearly 50-60,000 from Kosova.

Smile: "refugees are people who have escaped war or natural disaster and now live in the territory of another country. they hold citizenships from other countries and are foreigners technically. that would be serbs from bosnia and croatia. serbs from kosovo are internally displaced persons, serbian citizens..."

Nice try, Mr Smile, however I think you are wrong: when those people left Bosnia and Croatia they were still Yugoslav citizens, going to a country called Yugoslavia, where everybody was also a Yugoslav citizen. In fact Serbia and the Serbian citizenship didn't exist until a year and a half ago. So unless, those people left BiH and Croatia last year for Serbia, according to your own defnition they are not refugees technically either.
Please explain this to me: How come the Kosovar Serb population grew from 190,000 to 330,000 in a matter of less than 10 years, when for decades before that their numbers grew to almost miniscule levels?

So, No one answered my question. Why are Albanians attacking Macedonian officials? It doesn’t matter that among the dead are also Albanian because as anyone who is familiar with the region knows that KLA killed Albanians as well who did not support them.

Albanians I stated have been terrorizing Serbs before Milosevic and every one from former Yugoslavia that I know acknowledges this. Milosevic did what he did, right or wrong because he was fed up with the constant Albanian nationalism.

People blame Serbs of nationalism but Albanians are same if not wore.

As for KLA being funded by Al Qaeda just google it and you will see all of the CIA reports which state so.

I am surprised by how much propaganda pro-Albanians use here. All of their numbers and historical facts are completely skewed.

KS,
What are you talking about? Since you know the region so well and the event which recently happened in Macedonia where the police were attacked by Albanians from Kosovo, how come you cannot distinguish who is Albanian and who is not? Below I quoted www.adnkronos.com news agency. The two dead officers are definately Macedonian meaning they are of Slavic origin. Ristovski sounds Roma, so I am not sure about him being a Slav but definitely not Albanian. The third member of the police who is unharmed is the Albanian. Ironic, no?

"Policeman Igor Draganov (24) was killed outright, while doctors in Skopje hospital were fighting for the life of Trajce Ristovski (33). The third policeman, Dzemail Sinani (23), escaped with slight wounds."

For those who are new to this post events like this in Macedonia and much wore have been happening in Kosovo to Serbs for 40 yrs, long before Milosevic came along.

I dont understand you pro-Albanians, what does it take to make a people happy? I guess independence.

Also explain to me why of the Ft. Dix which tired to bomb a military base in New Jersey, 4 were Albanians from Kosovo. It is not enough that Albanians terrorize the Balkans but now they came to the USA. I hope that the USA will learn from it and understand that if they try to establish a NATO state out of Kosovo they will have cleansed the rest of Serbs from Kosovo and will be stuck with dealing with terrorist actions just like the Serbs have.

nightmare,

Who should you blame? Are you really asking that question?

The same people who are funded by drugs and human trafficking, who have continuously attacked Serbs in Kosovo, the ones who started the whole 1999 Kosovo conflict and who are today still using terrorist acts in Serbia, Macedonia and even now in the USA.

KLA!

Majority of you pro-Albanians support KLA and fail to see that they are murderers and common thugs, you support that they hate Serbs and want Serbs cleansed out of Kosovo, you support them in the Kosovo government. Now think of why Serbs do not want Kosovo independence...Because the same people who killed Serbs are also running Kosovo today.

It would be as if Milosevic was still running Serbia, then I would not blame Kosovo for wanting independence. However the Kosovo government is not fit to run Kosovo as they have proven time as even with UN presence they fail to protect the BASIC minority rights.

first of all mr. gashi if my comments come across as belittling then obviously curse my comments, but all i'm doing is responding to your untrue claims the best way i know how.

Now then,

"As far as I know, and I'm pretty sure you know it too, no one was holding previously a citizenship of Serbia or Montenegro, because such a thing didn't EXIST prior to 1992! Everyone in the SFRY (Old Yugo) was a citizen of Yugoslavia, and there was no separate citizenship for each republic."

what you just said above puzzles me. i have to say and i dont mean it in a rude way but the only way you could not know how the citizenship thing worked out in former yugoslavia, sfrj, then in federal rep. of yug, srj, and then state union, scg, is if you were never a resident of kosovo, ie serbia, or if you were there illegally and never took out your birth certificate, id card, passport and the like cos you didnt have any. If you ever took a look at your sfrj birth certificate, and i assume you are over 15? you would have seen exactly what i see in mine. All this assuming you are kosovo albanian. If you are albanian albanian or macedonian or montengrin or not albanian at all obviously none of this applies and i apologise.
That's why here's the truth: each of us born in sfrj before 1992 were first citizens of one of the six republics and then of sfrj. Thats what our birth certificates said. In my case, citizenship, socialist republic of sebia, socialist federal republic of yugoslavia, verbatim. Sfrj, and srj, and scg were all FEDERATIONS. I trust you get my drift. for example, I gained my srj, scg and now thank god serbian citizeships automatically. A serb from bosnia for instance could not do that but they could apply.a kosovo albanian could apply for croatian, austrian, chinese passports, but thats irrelevant here.
Next, your decision to quote milosevic instead of credible data brought another smile on my face. If you will, give us unmik figures on serb population in kosovo. I provided unhcr numbers of kosovo serb idps over here. I wont quote uck any more than i want to quote milo. Not credible sources for anything you see. But milo was a really good ally of yours, wasn't he. You miss him quite a bit. If at any point in the 1990s kosovo albanians decided to drop their boycott of their own state and take part in elections, milosevic would have been kicked out of office losing elections. But you didnt want him out of office because he worked perfectly in your favor.
But now he's gone. Now theres a different government in belgrade that carries a different weight that will not oblige you with knee jerk reactions to futher your cause. Now patience like putin said. Frozen conflict? If need be. For decades? I dont mind.
And i do wish you all the best. I am sorry if you suffered in conflict. I feel no malice for albanians whatsoever. But dont try to take away our land because thats unacceptable. There is no one in this country that will amen that for you and that does not mean that you are hated or wished evil. its up to you to freeze or live normally in autonomy.

Jacob, Gib, Ratko ect...
What have you/Serbia done for K-Serbs in Serbia?
Whathas Serbia done for K-Serbs in Kosova?
Nothing but feeding them withfalse hopes, keeping them out of the Insitutional life.

mr. gashi :) I am hell-bent on not letting you mislead people here, I don’t know what got into me :)

OK, Smile, I'm also hell-bent of not letting YOU either mislead people here, so let me see:


"Serbia and Montenegro formed federal republic of Yugoslavia on that day, a new country. only those previously holding citizenship of serbia or montenegro became citizens of srj."

As far as I know, and I'm pretty sure you know it too, no one was holding previously a citizenship of Serbia or Montenegro, because such a thing didn't EXIST prior to 1992! Everyone in the SFRY (Old Yugo) was a citizen of Yugoslavia, and there was no separate citizenship for each republic. Let's at least agree on this very basic fact.

Now, if you meant that only those residing previously in the republics of Serbia or Montenegro became citizens of the FRY, that is not quite accurate either. In the old SFRY, there were a lot of people of different ethnicities living and working in many other places, that when the damn thing exploded opted to go and become citizens of countries where they weren't residing before. For example if a Croatian was living in Belgrade, he could just the same become a citizen of Serbia or Croatia if he wanted to. Same as a Serb living in Zagreb. And I know that a lot of people did just that. I also know that a lot of Albanians for example that were living in Serbia, went and became citizens of Croatia, although they weren't croatians per se. But the majority of people moved to the country of their ethnic origin. Please don't tell me this is news to you.

I also know that the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia, didn't jump to go and get the Croatian and Bosnian citizenships because these people didn't recognize the states of Croatia and Bosnia to begin with, and that they claimed that their territories were part of Serbia, and that's why they waged war for, and that's why Serbia helped them and furnished them with weapons and tanks and munitions and volunteers and generals from Serbia. It just so happened that they were defeated and went back to Serbia, and now you and them and Serbia are going to tell me that they are Croatian citizens? Too bad if Serbia doesn't give them citizenship, it's only hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for the right of everyone to return as much as I am for the prosecution of the war criminals where they commited their crimes. But why can't Bosnians for example return to RS, or why can't Albanians return to Northern Kosova? Are Serbs special?


"I trust these figures after all i am a citizen of a country that is a un member :)"

OK, fair enough, my country is not yet a UN member, so I guess I can't trust those numbers like you do, but I have to use some reasoning and arithmetics to figure out the truth. And I won't quote unmik or unhcr, but I'll quote the official statistics of the government of Serbia under the regime of Milosevic. I mean, of all sources, that won't be the one to skew the numbers in favor of Albanians, now would it? And we can safely trust it to give the maximum number of Serbs living in Kosova prior the war. So, the number of Serbs living in Kosova prior to the war, according to that source is 190,000. Now it turns out that there are 130,000 Serbs still living in the province, and 200,000 of them living in Serbia, so 330,000. So in less than 10 years their numbers nearly doubled, and yet for decades before that their numbers were nearly constant. Now can you explain it to me, how is that possbile.


"Remember, the less serbs, the more shame on those who drove them out."

Oh please, you can try these tactics of a village priest to shame someone else, I didn't hang my honour to the number of Serbs being more or less, because I don't care either way: they are what they are. And even less would I be ashamed by the appologists of a nation that nearly wiped my people out and have yet to recognize its crimes.

And B92, please post my reply in its entirety, because if you allow someone to use irony and belitteling of another poster, it's only fair to allow the reply also if it's on the same note.

"You pro-Albanians just keep repeating the same thing over and over...Milosevic, Milosevic, Milosevic...Those days are over "

Well, when serbs continue threatening Kosova's people with the likes of lazar 'brigade' and kostunica/tadic making other threats against Kosova, seriously, whom do you think we should blame? The man on the moon? lolol

Time for free kosovo. It is time that kosova take care of her own problem . It is time that kosova became indipendent. We saw how good Umnik and Serbia managed Kosova. Time for K -Albanians to take care of their own problems,

Smile, unfortunately I don't have the birth certificate and passport from old Yugo, because your glorious army, took it from me and destroyed it during its ethnic cleansing campaign in Kosova. Doing me a favor I must add, because in doing so it freed me from the Serbian jurisdiction. You must look at the world symbolically sometimes, because it empowers you. That's why I SMILE, when I read on this site that I am a Serbian Albanian. I don't dispute that I am Albanian, but how can I be a Serbian, when the Serbian state itself tore appart my affiliation with it. I hope you catch my drift.

And after I got back home I got brand new documents and passport from UNMIK and never looked back. So, I can't be a Serbian citizen now, can I? I am an UNMIK citizen, yes! I am a Kosovar citizen, yes! But not a Serbian one in any way. Do we agree?

Your definitions are really weird, and I could swear that there was not a separate Serbian, Croatian, Macedonian etc. citizenship in Yugoslavia, but all had the same Jugoslovensko citizenship and red passport, but alas I could not prove that to you. You'd have to blame for that your glorious army! But, if you can show me a Croatian passport from the old SFRY, maybe you can win this argument.

But in general and it would be only logical that UNHCR uses the same definition, citizenship is recognized in the country level, not in the federative unit or administrative level. So, there is no Bavarian, or Ile-de-France, or even Minesota citizenship, but there is instead a German, French or USA citizenship. And so on and so forth ...

Oh yeah, I miss Milosevic, like I miss a bullet in my brains, like a miss an inferno in my house, or like I miss a boot over my neck. Please tell me for which of your politicians should I have voted: Sheshel, Arkan, or Drashkovic? Which ones of them would have made a difference in my life, or brought back the autonomy or allow back the Albanian schools, jobs etc. We were all "shiptari" as far as your politicians were concerned. "Pick your death" said the executioner. "You want to die by hanging, shooting, beheading, or drowning, because we allow you all the freedom of choice here."

And if your current governement was democratic it would take into account the will of the people, 2 million people mind you, 20% of the population it considers as its country, and call for the resolution of the status via a referendum in Kosova. Like for example the democratic govt of Canada allowed for a referendum in Quebec, or the democratic govt of UK will allow for a referendum in Scotland. But your govt is not democratic, at least not to us, and it is in fact following right in the sadistic footsteps of Milosevic, and doing all it can in the present conditions to extend the misery of those it considers as its citizens. And your post reflects this: "Frozen conflict? If need be. For decades? I dont mind." Unfortunately for you my friend, is not up to you anymore to decide about that.


"But dont try to take away our land because thats unacceptable..."
Actually if you go around Kosova, and ask about the land, you'd find out that people can produce deeds of the land they own and on which they live on, that goes back for generations. They own their land, literally, not figuratively! The actual land. And you? I mean you personally Mr Smile? Appart from the metaforical "deed", over this metaforical land that you speak about, do you personally, lawfully, own one single rock in Kosova? With an actual deed written on an actual paper?

The Serbian "angel" is blaming UMNIK for non achieving results in Kosova. He can tell us about his achivements in undermining the stability in Kosova, the threat of his government towards the Kosovar Serbs not to participate in Kosova's institutions.

UNMIK's performance cannot be more disappointing than the Serbian rule until 1999.

When will Mr Kostunica finally distance himself openly from the way Serbia ruled Kosovo, take responsibility and apologise for Serbia did in Kosovo.

Lets not forget, the current situation in Kosovo is the consequence of Serbia's rule of its province, and it's disrespect of 2 million citizens.

I agree with Jeremic - that's a first - about UNMIK and that is why I am really looking forward to Kosova's independence, and EU supervision so that K-Albanians can start building their country. UNMIK, although it has played an important role in helping Kosova get over the conflict, it has not been a great success. Their economic policy has been a disaster, e.g. there are higher taxes on Kosova than on imports from Serbia and Macedonia, and they have not managed to finish the privatization process or create new jobs which would give a boost to the economy.
I disagree with him to some extent on the marginalization issue though. There are problems of course, very serious ones, but the situation of the K-Serbs today does not even come close to what the K-Albanians went through under Milosevic, which was oppression and a sort of apartheid under the rule of a tiny Serb minority. And in any case there are approximately 100 thousand Serbs in Kosova, or about 5% of the populations. How much power or central role in governance does one give to such a small portion of the country's population? They have a quota of MPs reserved for them, they have a minister and they are gonna get autonomy. So what else are they asking for? Maybe Mr. Jeremic should also address the fact that Belgrade is doing its best to keep the Serbs marginalized, rather than place the blame squarely on the Albanians and then things might improve.

To Gib: "What was their reasoning before Milosevic was in power?

Their reasoning was terror funded by Al Qaeda ."

Mister, it's no clear from what position you are talking from but it looks like you have no a clue about Kosova and its history under the Serb rule.
To answer you question on the most simplistic way, problems with Kosova started when Milosevic annuled Kosova autonomy by also breaking unlawfully its own yugoslav constitution. Before that, there was no problem in Kosova for as long as albanians were heard and respected as much as the other ethnic groups in the former Yugoslavia. Ethnic divisions always existed in Yugoslavia but Milosevic was the culprit of serb nationalism which brought yugoslavia to its demise.
Don't throw comments just for the sake of commenting and if you want to stick Al-Qaeda anywhere you feel fit then at least mention your sources where you get your information.

It is unbeleivable how Serbia manipulates and inflates the number of the refugees. Only a few days ago the Serbian Minister for Labor and Social Policy, Rasim Ljajić, declared that Serbia has 97,000 officially registered refugees:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=10&dd=22&nav_id=44785

Now, Jeremic claims that Serbia has over 200,000 refugees only from Kosova. And yet according to Serbian statistics of prior to 1999, Kosova had only 190,000 Serbs living in the province. Nearly 130,000 of those still are in the province. So the numbers just don't add up, unless Ljajic is right and Serbia has only 97,000 refugees, and of those nearly 50-60,000 from Kosova.

Jacob, Gib, Ratko ect...
What have you/Serbia done for K-Serbs in Serbia?
Whathas Serbia done for K-Serbs in Kosova?
Nothing but feeding them withfalse hopes, keeping them out of the Insitutional life.

Terrorists attacked those border petrol officers. I think one of them that died was Albanian (based on his name).

Don't point fingers.

Smile: "refugees are people who have escaped war or natural disaster and now live in the territory of another country. they hold citizenships from other countries and are foreigners technically. that would be serbs from bosnia and croatia. serbs from kosovo are internally displaced persons, serbian citizens..."

Nice try, Mr Smile, however I think you are wrong: when those people left Bosnia and Croatia they were still Yugoslav citizens, going to a country called Yugoslavia, where everybody was also a Yugoslav citizen. In fact Serbia and the Serbian citizenship didn't exist until a year and a half ago. So unless, those people left BiH and Croatia last year for Serbia, according to your own defnition they are not refugees technically either.
Please explain this to me: How come the Kosovar Serb population grew from 190,000 to 330,000 in a matter of less than 10 years, when for decades before that their numbers grew to almost miniscule levels?

Serbian authorities don't have the moral, experience, or the authority to evaluate Kosova and its developments, especially knowing that the Western world, for the moment sees Kosova closer to European Union in achievement, at least in democratic institutions, closer than Serbia. So...this guy should go back to where he came from and work some more on his turf.

You pro-Albanians just keep repeating the same thing over and over...Milosevic, Milosevic, Milosevic...Those days are over and I think you need to understand that. Citizens of Kosovo would have much more to gain should they stay part of Serbia then independently. Though Milosevic did horrible things he is not in power anymore however the KLA members who also did equaly horrible things are still running Kosovo today. Double standard, wont you say? How are Serbs expected to live under people that hate them and have no means of protecting them. Serbs are the most vulnerable citizens of Serbia in Kosovo and there is not doubt about it. Kosovo government has done nothing to protect the Serbs yet Kosovo thinks they deserve independence. I guarantee everyone that just as Serbia has protected its Albanian, Bosnian Muslim, Croat as well as other minorities in Serbia proper over the last 8 yrs they will do the same in Kosovo. Kosovo does not deserve independence, terrorism should not be rewarded.

I would like to ask pro-Albanians since you blame everything on Serbs in Kosovo, that completely plead innocence on the matter then what is your reasoning behind attaching Macedonian police and officials?

They had done nothing to you like Milosevic had.

Please answer this question.

For those who dont know the way Albanians are attacking Mecedonians today they were doing far worse things in Kosovo to Serbs. This has been goin on for the past 30 yrs, before Milosevic came to power. However, Albanians use Milosevic as their scape goat behind their reasoning for their independence. What was their reasoning before Milosevic was in power?

Their reasoning was terror funded by Al Qaeda .

Talking about the post is all very well and good, and I am not saying we should forget what happend, but this is about now.

And it's no secret that KFOR doesn't do a great job at protecting Serbs. It's also no

150 churches destroyed, Serbian property/homes stolen by albanians, people can't return to their homes... ya great job UNMIK.

"problems with Kosova started when Milosevic annuled Kosova autonomy by also breaking unlawfully its own yugoslav constitution. Before that, there was no problem in Kosova"

mr. miri is misleading mr. gib. why? here's how it really is: there were huge demos in pristina in 1980 when jna, the army, had to intevene. milosevic grabbed power in 1987. albanians were protesting because they wanted for kosovo to be a republic, which never happened. yugoslavia had 6 republics which are all now states. and thats the final number.
for all we know, the rest of mr. miri's post may be just as untrue.

John3,

Your assertion that Kostunica must "take responsibility and apologise for [what] Serbia did in Kosovo" because "the current situation in Kosovo is the consequence of Serbia's rule" is complete nonsense.

The KLA are responsible for the current situation in Kosovo and they, along with NATO, should be the ones apoligizing to Serbia.

The only ones committing war crimes in Kosovo prior to the NATO bombing were the KLA. Just look at the Hague Tribunal's indictments for Kosovo and you'll see that the only ones indicted for Kosovo war crimes pre-dating the NATO bombing are the KLA.

The one and only war crime that Serbia was accused of BEFORE the NATO bombing was Racak, and that seems certain to have been a put-up job by the KLA.

The Hague prosecutors dropped the Racak charges against Milutinovic and the rest of the so-called "Kosovo six".

Every single war crime that any Serbian official is accused of in Kosovo is alleged to have happened DURING the NATO bombing -- NOT before.

Whatever crimes Milosevic's troops may have committed against the Kosovo-Albanians were provoked by KLA's war crimes and the NATO bombing campaign.

The thesis that "Serbia started it" is absurd when the NATO bombing and the KLA's war crimes (which have been indicted by the ICTY) pre-date any crime that Serbia is even accused of.

mr. gashi is misleading people here.

"It is unbeleivable how Serbia manipulates and inflates the number of the refugees. Only a few days ago the Serbian Minister for Labor and Social Policy, Rasim Ljajić, declared that Serbia has 97,000 officially registered refugees:

[link]

Now, Jeremic claims that Serbia has over 200,000 refugees only from Kosova."

refugees are people who have escaped war or natural disaster and now live in the territory of another country. they hold citizenships from other countries and are foreigners technically. that would be serbs from bosnia and croatia. serbs from kosovo are internally displaced persons, serbian citizens. they dont count toward the refugee statistic. as things are: kosovo is legally a part of serbia and as those albanians taking their passports in nis know, all residents of kosovo are serbian citizens, legally of course, they hate it, but wishes dont change what is real like the song says.

mr. gashi :) I am hell-bent on not letting you mislead people here, I don’t know what got into me :)
Here's how it is: on 27 april 1992, socialist federal republic of yugo ( the six republics thingie, you know) as far as serbia is concerned was dead, for other republics who declared independence, even earlier. Serbia and Montenegro formed federal republic of Yugoslavia on that day, a new country. only those previously holding citizenship of serbia or montenegro became citizens of srj. People who at that point or later took refuge here from Croatia and bosnia were either given citizenship- very rare, or treated as foreigner, in other words refugees. Last year serbia became independent again but that is irrelevant to this story as you can clearly see.
As for internally displaced serbs from Kosovo, I looked it up because I have no way of knowing offhand. Now nevermind jeremic, who cares about him. official unhcr stats say there are about 80,000 refugees in serbia and 206,000 internally displaced. I trust these figures after all i am a citizen of a country that is a un member :) As for the number of serbs in Kosovo, heres where you can jump in and we can work as a team to speak the truth to the whole world. if you like, quote unmik or unhcr and tell us how many there are officially.
Remember, the less serbs, the more shame on those who drove them out.

mr. gashi :) I am hell-bent on not letting you mislead people here, I don’t know what got into me :)

OK, Smile, I'm also hell-bent of not letting YOU either mislead people here, so let me see:


"Serbia and Montenegro formed federal republic of Yugoslavia on that day, a new country. only those previously holding citizenship of serbia or montenegro became citizens of srj."

As far as I know, and I'm pretty sure you know it too, no one was holding previously a citizenship of Serbia or Montenegro, because such a thing didn't EXIST prior to 1992! Everyone in the SFRY (Old Yugo) was a citizen of Yugoslavia, and there was no separate citizenship for each republic. Let's at least agree on this very basic fact.

Now, if you meant that only those residing previously in the republics of Serbia or Montenegro became citizens of the FRY, that is not quite accurate either. In the old SFRY, there were a lot of people of different ethnicities living and working in many other places, that when the damn thing exploded opted to go and become citizens of countries where they weren't residing before. For example if a Croatian was living in Belgrade, he could just the same become a citizen of Serbia or Croatia if he wanted to. Same as a Serb living in Zagreb. And I know that a lot of people did just that. I also know that a lot of Albanians for example that were living in Serbia, went and became citizens of Croatia, although they weren't croatians per se. But the majority of people moved to the country of their ethnic origin. Please don't tell me this is news to you.

I also know that the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia, didn't jump to go and get the Croatian and Bosnian citizenships because these people didn't recognize the states of Croatia and Bosnia to begin with, and that they claimed that their territories were part of Serbia, and that's why they waged war for, and that's why Serbia helped them and furnished them with weapons and tanks and munitions and volunteers and generals from Serbia. It just so happened that they were defeated and went back to Serbia, and now you and them and Serbia are going to tell me that they are Croatian citizens? Too bad if Serbia doesn't give them citizenship, it's only hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for the right of everyone to return as much as I am for the prosecution of the war criminals where they commited their crimes. But why can't Bosnians for example return to RS, or why can't Albanians return to Northern Kosova? Are Serbs special?


"I trust these figures after all i am a citizen of a country that is a un member :)"

OK, fair enough, my country is not yet a UN member, so I guess I can't trust those numbers like you do, but I have to use some reasoning and arithmetics to figure out the truth. And I won't quote unmik or unhcr, but I'll quote the official statistics of the government of Serbia under the regime of Milosevic. I mean, of all sources, that won't be the one to skew the numbers in favor of Albanians, now would it? And we can safely trust it to give the maximum number of Serbs living in Kosova prior the war. So, the number of Serbs living in Kosova prior to the war, according to that source is 190,000. Now it turns out that there are 130,000 Serbs still living in the province, and 200,000 of them living in Serbia, so 330,000. So in less than 10 years their numbers nearly doubled, and yet for decades before that their numbers were nearly constant. Now can you explain it to me, how is that possbile.


"Remember, the less serbs, the more shame on those who drove them out."

Oh please, you can try these tactics of a village priest to shame someone else, I didn't hang my honour to the number of Serbs being more or less, because I don't care either way: they are what they are. And even less would I be ashamed by the appologists of a nation that nearly wiped my people out and have yet to recognize its crimes.

And B92, please post my reply in its entirety, because if you allow someone to use irony and belitteling of another poster, it's only fair to allow the reply also if it's on the same note.

So, No one answered my question. Why are Albanians attacking Macedonian officials? It doesn’t matter that among the dead are also Albanian because as anyone who is familiar with the region knows that KLA killed Albanians as well who did not support them.

Albanians I stated have been terrorizing Serbs before Milosevic and every one from former Yugoslavia that I know acknowledges this. Milosevic did what he did, right or wrong because he was fed up with the constant Albanian nationalism.

People blame Serbs of nationalism but Albanians are same if not wore.

As for KLA being funded by Al Qaeda just google it and you will see all of the CIA reports which state so.

I am surprised by how much propaganda pro-Albanians use here. All of their numbers and historical facts are completely skewed.

"You pro-Albanians just keep repeating the same thing over and over...Milosevic, Milosevic, Milosevic...Those days are over "

Well, when serbs continue threatening Kosova's people with the likes of lazar 'brigade' and kostunica/tadic making other threats against Kosova, seriously, whom do you think we should blame? The man on the moon? lolol

KS,
What are you talking about? Since you know the region so well and the event which recently happened in Macedonia where the police were attacked by Albanians from Kosovo, how come you cannot distinguish who is Albanian and who is not? Below I quoted www.adnkronos.com news agency. The two dead officers are definately Macedonian meaning they are of Slavic origin. Ristovski sounds Roma, so I am not sure about him being a Slav but definitely not Albanian. The third member of the police who is unharmed is the Albanian. Ironic, no?

"Policeman Igor Draganov (24) was killed outright, while doctors in Skopje hospital were fighting for the life of Trajce Ristovski (33). The third policeman, Dzemail Sinani (23), escaped with slight wounds."

For those who are new to this post events like this in Macedonia and much wore have been happening in Kosovo to Serbs for 40 yrs, long before Milosevic came along.

I dont understand you pro-Albanians, what does it take to make a people happy? I guess independence.

Also explain to me why of the Ft. Dix which tired to bomb a military base in New Jersey, 4 were Albanians from Kosovo. It is not enough that Albanians terrorize the Balkans but now they came to the USA. I hope that the USA will learn from it and understand that if they try to establish a NATO state out of Kosovo they will have cleansed the rest of Serbs from Kosovo and will be stuck with dealing with terrorist actions just like the Serbs have.

Time for free kosovo. It is time that kosova take care of her own problem . It is time that kosova became indipendent. We saw how good Umnik and Serbia managed Kosova. Time for K -Albanians to take care of their own problems,

nightmare,

Who should you blame? Are you really asking that question?

The same people who are funded by drugs and human trafficking, who have continuously attacked Serbs in Kosovo, the ones who started the whole 1999 Kosovo conflict and who are today still using terrorist acts in Serbia, Macedonia and even now in the USA.

KLA!

Majority of you pro-Albanians support KLA and fail to see that they are murderers and common thugs, you support that they hate Serbs and want Serbs cleansed out of Kosovo, you support them in the Kosovo government. Now think of why Serbs do not want Kosovo independence...Because the same people who killed Serbs are also running Kosovo today.

It would be as if Milosevic was still running Serbia, then I would not blame Kosovo for wanting independence. However the Kosovo government is not fit to run Kosovo as they have proven time as even with UN presence they fail to protect the BASIC minority rights.

first of all mr. gashi if my comments come across as belittling then obviously curse my comments, but all i'm doing is responding to your untrue claims the best way i know how.

Now then,

"As far as I know, and I'm pretty sure you know it too, no one was holding previously a citizenship of Serbia or Montenegro, because such a thing didn't EXIST prior to 1992! Everyone in the SFRY (Old Yugo) was a citizen of Yugoslavia, and there was no separate citizenship for each republic."

what you just said above puzzles me. i have to say and i dont mean it in a rude way but the only way you could not know how the citizenship thing worked out in former yugoslavia, sfrj, then in federal rep. of yug, srj, and then state union, scg, is if you were never a resident of kosovo, ie serbia, or if you were there illegally and never took out your birth certificate, id card, passport and the like cos you didnt have any. If you ever took a look at your sfrj birth certificate, and i assume you are over 15? you would have seen exactly what i see in mine. All this assuming you are kosovo albanian. If you are albanian albanian or macedonian or montengrin or not albanian at all obviously none of this applies and i apologise.
That's why here's the truth: each of us born in sfrj before 1992 were first citizens of one of the six republics and then of sfrj. Thats what our birth certificates said. In my case, citizenship, socialist republic of sebia, socialist federal republic of yugoslavia, verbatim. Sfrj, and srj, and scg were all FEDERATIONS. I trust you get my drift. for example, I gained my srj, scg and now thank god serbian citizeships automatically. A serb from bosnia for instance could not do that but they could apply.a kosovo albanian could apply for croatian, austrian, chinese passports, but thats irrelevant here.
Next, your decision to quote milosevic instead of credible data brought another smile on my face. If you will, give us unmik figures on serb population in kosovo. I provided unhcr numbers of kosovo serb idps over here. I wont quote uck any more than i want to quote milo. Not credible sources for anything you see. But milo was a really good ally of yours, wasn't he. You miss him quite a bit. If at any point in the 1990s kosovo albanians decided to drop their boycott of their own state and take part in elections, milosevic would have been kicked out of office losing elections. But you didnt want him out of office because he worked perfectly in your favor.
But now he's gone. Now theres a different government in belgrade that carries a different weight that will not oblige you with knee jerk reactions to futher your cause. Now patience like putin said. Frozen conflict? If need be. For decades? I dont mind.
And i do wish you all the best. I am sorry if you suffered in conflict. I feel no malice for albanians whatsoever. But dont try to take away our land because thats unacceptable. There is no one in this country that will amen that for you and that does not mean that you are hated or wished evil. its up to you to freeze or live normally in autonomy.

Smile, unfortunately I don't have the birth certificate and passport from old Yugo, because your glorious army, took it from me and destroyed it during its ethnic cleansing campaign in Kosova. Doing me a favor I must add, because in doing so it freed me from the Serbian jurisdiction. You must look at the world symbolically sometimes, because it empowers you. That's why I SMILE, when I read on this site that I am a Serbian Albanian. I don't dispute that I am Albanian, but how can I be a Serbian, when the Serbian state itself tore appart my affiliation with it. I hope you catch my drift.

And after I got back home I got brand new documents and passport from UNMIK and never looked back. So, I can't be a Serbian citizen now, can I? I am an UNMIK citizen, yes! I am a Kosovar citizen, yes! But not a Serbian one in any way. Do we agree?

Your definitions are really weird, and I could swear that there was not a separate Serbian, Croatian, Macedonian etc. citizenship in Yugoslavia, but all had the same Jugoslovensko citizenship and red passport, but alas I could not prove that to you. You'd have to blame for that your glorious army! But, if you can show me a Croatian passport from the old SFRY, maybe you can win this argument.

But in general and it would be only logical that UNHCR uses the same definition, citizenship is recognized in the country level, not in the federative unit or administrative level. So, there is no Bavarian, or Ile-de-France, or even Minesota citizenship, but there is instead a German, French or USA citizenship. And so on and so forth ...

Oh yeah, I miss Milosevic, like I miss a bullet in my brains, like a miss an inferno in my house, or like I miss a boot over my neck. Please tell me for which of your politicians should I have voted: Sheshel, Arkan, or Drashkovic? Which ones of them would have made a difference in my life, or brought back the autonomy or allow back the Albanian schools, jobs etc. We were all "shiptari" as far as your politicians were concerned. "Pick your death" said the executioner. "You want to die by hanging, shooting, beheading, or drowning, because we allow you all the freedom of choice here."

And if your current governement was democratic it would take into account the will of the people, 2 million people mind you, 20% of the population it considers as its country, and call for the resolution of the status via a referendum in Kosova. Like for example the democratic govt of Canada allowed for a referendum in Quebec, or the democratic govt of UK will allow for a referendum in Scotland. But your govt is not democratic, at least not to us, and it is in fact following right in the sadistic footsteps of Milosevic, and doing all it can in the present conditions to extend the misery of those it considers as its citizens. And your post reflects this: "Frozen conflict? If need be. For decades? I dont mind." Unfortunately for you my friend, is not up to you anymore to decide about that.


"But dont try to take away our land because thats unacceptable..."
Actually if you go around Kosova, and ask about the land, you'd find out that people can produce deeds of the land they own and on which they live on, that goes back for generations. They own their land, literally, not figuratively! The actual land. And you? I mean you personally Mr Smile? Appart from the metaforical "deed", over this metaforical land that you speak about, do you personally, lawfully, own one single rock in Kosova? With an actual deed written on an actual paper?