D'Alema: Considerable developments over Kosovo

"Italy advocates a solution acceptable to both parties. If such a settlement is found, a UN resolution and a solution in line with international law will be adopted,"

- a solution in line with UN law i.e. not the forced and imposed will of the US! Of course they might try but at that point the US and any others who illegally recognise any illegal unilateral declaration will be acting outside of and against the UN and the UN SC Resolution that they formulated and signed. Diplomatic effrts at this point will have been turned into military agression against the Soverign state of Serbia - Serbia wishes to choose diplomatic solutions but as Senator Hilary Clinton (currently front runner for the Democrats Presedential candidate) said for the US

"Use our military not as the solution to every problem but as one element in a comprehensive strategy. As president, I will never hesitate to use force to protect Americans or to defend our territory and our vital interests. We cannot negotiate with individual terrorists; they must be hunted down and captured or killed." p2
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20071101faessay86601-p10/hillary-rodham-clinton/security-and-opportunity-for-the-twenty-first-century.html

Is the US really prepared to open up another illegal front when the Winter snows begin to melt after Serbia has kept the diplomatic channel open for one last attempt to resolve this via jaw-jaw or do they not respect other nations the same rights that they expect for themselves?

Tadic is still currently the Serbian President and has hinted that Diplomacy is the prefered option but as any President worthy of being the President of their State I doubt he would hesitate to defend all our citizens (irrespective of ethnicity), our territory and vital interests.

Jaw-jaw after the 10th December will always be prefrable to the alternative of war-war - does the US not want stability?

EA: "He also advises the Serbian government to be realistic that it has nothing to offer when it comes to "autonomy"."

He never even said this! Are you now resorting to putting words into peoples' mouths?

"Kosova is physically independent from Serbia since 1999 and that was definately not an Serbian offer but let's ask Kate, Jovanovic, Cvele and others what was it?"

Well, I don't really understand your question.

But I will say that Kosovo remains a legal part of the sovereign territory of Serbia as confirmed by the existence of UN Resolution 1244. The US and Serbia, along with other European nations, are forming relations in all sorts of ways within the framework of this existing status.

Not everyone believes that the integrity of a European nation's borders can be breached to placate an independence-seeking monoethnic minority because they form a majority in one province. That is not the way that anyone in Europe wishes to travel.

The ground you stand on when presenting your argument is very weak in any real legal or logical sense.

D'Alemma last week claimed that Serbia 'occupied' Kosovo back in 1999. This just goes to show this guy doesn't know which way is up, and should not be taken seriously.
As to all the albanians who keep claiming Kosovo is already independent, I would like to remind them that without Russia's consent, it will never be independent. In addition, without agreement from Slovakia, Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Romania and Hungary's consent, they will never be able to join Europe. The bargaining position of the albanian side is very weak. The Kosovo economy is worse than third world levels, while Serbia is surging ahead, and soon will be the biggest economic power in the Balkans. Even if greater albania is recognized by somec countries, it will never have legal status, which means that Serbia can sit back wait for the right time to take it back. What does this mean? It means constant instability in Kosovo, no investment, economic blockade on Kosovo, no future, no hope, and even more misery than there is now. The albanian bargaining position is worse than terrible.

Most declarations of independence are unilateral...this won't be anything new or illegal. It's happened before, and it will happen again.

I agree Peter that a solution may have to be forced, but Serbia's integrity and international law have to be respected. These are the most important things.

This has nothing to do with earlier wars which were settled by the signing of Res. 1244.

It is far more important to keep Serbia on side and heading in the right direction, than to create a monoethnic state illegally out of 15% of Serbian territory and create a dangerous precedent and a division in Europe.

I am not a Serbian, but I really do see dangers if Kosovo is given independence. It will give a green light to separatist groups around Europe and beyond.

Besides which everyone knows that Kosovo won't be the end. It will then be the same in Macedonia, Presevo Valley, Montenegro...

If there is any logic left in Europe, this must not be allowed to happen.

Stressing that the Troika's report to the UN Security Council is due by December 10, D'Alema said it is an "important date," adding he hoped progress will be made by then as "there is enough time, although everything hinges on will."
I hope that most of the people here agree with that statement. In other words use these time to get a common ground for the sake of stability and a European prospect of the region. He also advises the Serbian government to be realistic that it has nothing to offer when it comes to "autonomy". Kosova is physically independent from Serbia since 1999 and that was definately not an Serbian offer but let's ask Kate, Jovanovic, Cvele and others what was it?

Whatever headway is made, the fundamental question of sovereignty are disagreed upon by both sides, so what progress has been made?

I do wish for an agreement, but I can see it is impossible, Serbia will not accept independence, Kosovo will not accept autonomy, and there is no inbetween.

The major powers should just come to a decision and then prepare for the consequences, because I doubt that any decision will please both sides.

kate

I agree with you entirely, but I can see this is not going to work as we want it to. Ideally, Kosovo and Serbia would finally come to an agreement, but realistically, I see this:

Kosovo declares unilateral independence, US and some others recognize it, Serbia refuses to accept the Ahtisaari Plan because of UNSCR1244, Russia recognizes separatist states in Georgia, Azerbaijan and Moldova (since they don't differ at all from Kosovo) in response to the West and we will still not have stability in the Balkans.

But not even looking at the bigger picture, fact is:

Kosovo will be some abortion in the Balkans that cannot join the UN and EU and Serbia will have this tumor that it has zero control over, if you pardon my rather crude comparison.

You should check the whole interview of Mr. D'Alema. His main sentence is not posted here by this site though, and he said: Kosovo will never be part of Serbia again.

Hmmm...why did someone miss this...?

Had D'Alema, the former Serbia bomber in 1999, come to check out what could be bombed the next time?
Amusing how he had been welcomed by the Serbian officials.

Princip

Please stop copy & pasting. i only have to read the first two words to know that its your post.

you are right Nick, just read the line below and absolutaly is copy and paste. The following line I read it on other articles as well, wow.
"Jaw-jaw after the 10th December will always be prefrable to the alternative of war-war - does the US not want stability?", said Princip, againa and again.
Getting back to the article, you knwo, we know and I know which direction Italy will go when time comes, which is very soon.

Kate,
Just to clarify you,
Serbia has nothing to offer (substantial autonomy) as Kosova has been physically independent from Serbia since 1999. Serbia hasn't got the power of a sovereign state over Kosova. These are REAL FACTS.

Kate

When Dragan, Prinicp, Ratko, Jovan and some others serbs write in here, you can immediately tell that they are biased, passionately against independence, and simply don't like albanians. But I can understand that since they are serbs (I don't mean that as an insult, i mean considering the animosity between to two nations, and all the hisotry, while I do not agreen with you opinions and mentality, I understand it).

But you Kate, you claim not to be a Serb or have any serbian connection, and I simply cannot understand the fact that you are completely biased, and while you attempt to show consideration for albanians, your dislike for them (us) is very obvious.

Kate,
Besides which everyone knows that Kosovo won't be the end. It will then be the same in Macedonia, Presevo Valley, Montenegro...
I can see that is being really difficult for you to understand the whole Kosova issue. You are messing up rhe history and the facts in the Balcan. Let me ask you what is stopping the Albanians in Macedonia now to ask for what you are fearing so much? What it has to do with Kosova independence from Serbia? How do you Serbia establishing its authority and sovereignity over Kosova? Do you really think that is viable? Again I appeal to you to look into the REAL FACTS as well as historical ones. It is just impossible for the Kosovar Albanians to be Serbian citizens. When it comes to Macedonia, there was a conflict (not a war) as you might know between the two nationalities in Macedonia followed by an agreement signed by all political parties in Macedonia. The Albanians in Macedonia are in government and both nationalities are working together to fullfill their obligations as agreed. The relationship between Macedonia and Albanian are very good. Both countries are aiming to join NATO by 2008. So there are no comparison beween Serbia and Macedonia in any aspects. If the political situation follows its natural progress with Kosova being fully independent as prescribed by Ahtisari Plan as well as the Kosovar Albanian open Offer to Serbia plus guaranteed rights for the Serbian minority in Kosova as well as the Albanian minority in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegja in southern Serbia there should be no conflict in the region if there is a will by the Serbian government.

Nikshala - "Kate: while you attempt to show consideration for albanians, your dislike for them (us) is very obvious."

Not true at all, I can promise you. I do feel strongly about the issue but wish no ill will to people in the least, at all.

first of all, EA, I don´t know what it is that drives you, but if you think that I am annoyed if you call me Jovanovic... you´re pretty off the way! let me call you Djokovic ( say: Joke-ovic )!

by the way, Lazer is STILL the only Albanian who condemned the brutal beating of a 78-years old serbian woman...

that alone is a reason for all others here to feel ashamed!


KS, instead loosing yourself in unimportant questions about percentages ( you have already proven that math is not your strongest hobby )...you should rather think twice before posting, because...slowly but more and more clearly you are making the impression to all others that you only write here because you love to read your own comments!

and if you may repeat it once more, so that EVEN YOU get it FINALLY: KS, I neither do have any prejudices against Albanians, nor do I hate them. so stop those lies about me, being arrogant and hating Albanians.
that is a simple lie! and comparing me with Milošević could be compared with stupidity.

so, please stop that, it doesn´t help you at all.

interesting artickle

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/23/AR2007102301986.html

"But I will say that Kosovo remains a legal part of the sovereign territory of Serbia as confirmed by the existence of UN Resolution 1244.

I am saying:
NOT FOR LONG!!!

Kate how come you use the word separatist as if it were a four letter word? The Serbs were separatists once upon a time and now it is the turn of the K-Albanians. That is usually how nations and states are created and whether you like it or not you are witnessing the birth pangs of the state of Kosova. Of course it's gonna be difficult in the beginning,no one can deny that, but first things first. And the first thing is status, because as far physical Serb control of Kosova is concerned that belongs to the past.
Peter: I love your use of medical terminology to describe Kosova but don't you think that it is far more likely for Serbia to become some sort of Russian tumor in the Balkans? Just a thought.
And by the way it is no use arguing over D'Allema's statement. As a good Italian he knows how to speak a lot and say nothing. Both sides can interpret his words in their favor if they so wish.

teni

I agree, it was a bit of a crude analogy, I apologize for offense, I meant none. I don't think Serbia is Russia's tumor, but rather a pawn in their new game against the USA.

"It is far more important to keep Serbia on side and heading in the right direction, than to create a monoethnic state illegally out of 15% of Serbian territory"

Misinforming the masses is only supporting the reason why Kosova needs to be independent.

Today you claim Kosova makes up 15% territory, tomorrow are you going to claim that Serb minority make up 20% of populace in Kosova?

Jovan the only one who loves to read his own words is you, and also don't respond to other posts as if I wrote them..bc I didn't.

You are right when you say my math isn't good.

10,887 km² / 88,361 km² (113th) = 12%

12 does NOT equal 15 !!

D'Alema is braking the news to Serbian people instead of their politicians that Kosova is a done deal. Do not waste time with it. Instead focus in EU integration. As well he told Kostunica that Serbia, Ex-SFRJ Republic, is not major factor on deciding about Kosova’s future just Russia’s puppet.

Kate you said,
I am not a Serbian, but I really do see dangers if Kosovo is given independence. It will give a green light to separatist groups around Europe and beyond.
Kate, can you please tell me the dangers because I don’t see them.
Independence opposition( Kate, Princip, Jovan, Dragan, Cvele), could you please tell me the grounds according to which your countries are created and later recognised, including Serbia?

I think Serbian politicians use number 15 as in 15% because they have UEM (Updated-Events-Map), which sees Presevo Valley attached to Kosova and separated from Serbia...you know 12% (Kosova) + 3% (Presevo Valley)= 15%. Who said they don't know what they're saying? ;-)

Stressing that the Troika's report to the UN Security Council is due by December 10, D'Alema said it is an "important date," adding he hoped progress will be made by then as "there is enough time, although everything hinges on will."
I hope that most of the people here agree with that statement. In other words use these time to get a common ground for the sake of stability and a European prospect of the region. He also advises the Serbian government to be realistic that it has nothing to offer when it comes to "autonomy". Kosova is physically independent from Serbia since 1999 and that was definately not an Serbian offer but let's ask Kate, Jovanovic, Cvele and others what was it?

Most declarations of independence are unilateral...this won't be anything new or illegal. It's happened before, and it will happen again.

Princip

Please stop copy & pasting. i only have to read the first two words to know that its your post.

"But I will say that Kosovo remains a legal part of the sovereign territory of Serbia as confirmed by the existence of UN Resolution 1244.

I am saying:
NOT FOR LONG!!!

Had D'Alema, the former Serbia bomber in 1999, come to check out what could be bombed the next time?
Amusing how he had been welcomed by the Serbian officials.

interesting artickle

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/23/AR2007102301986.html

you are right Nick, just read the line below and absolutaly is copy and paste. The following line I read it on other articles as well, wow.
"Jaw-jaw after the 10th December will always be prefrable to the alternative of war-war - does the US not want stability?", said Princip, againa and again.
Getting back to the article, you knwo, we know and I know which direction Italy will go when time comes, which is very soon.

"It is far more important to keep Serbia on side and heading in the right direction, than to create a monoethnic state illegally out of 15% of Serbian territory"

Misinforming the masses is only supporting the reason why Kosova needs to be independent.

Today you claim Kosova makes up 15% territory, tomorrow are you going to claim that Serb minority make up 20% of populace in Kosova?

D'Alema is braking the news to Serbian people instead of their politicians that Kosova is a done deal. Do not waste time with it. Instead focus in EU integration. As well he told Kostunica that Serbia, Ex-SFRJ Republic, is not major factor on deciding about Kosova’s future just Russia’s puppet.

Kate you said,
I am not a Serbian, but I really do see dangers if Kosovo is given independence. It will give a green light to separatist groups around Europe and beyond.
Kate, can you please tell me the dangers because I don’t see them.
Independence opposition( Kate, Princip, Jovan, Dragan, Cvele), could you please tell me the grounds according to which your countries are created and later recognised, including Serbia?

Kate,
Just to clarify you,
Serbia has nothing to offer (substantial autonomy) as Kosova has been physically independent from Serbia since 1999. Serbia hasn't got the power of a sovereign state over Kosova. These are REAL FACTS.

Kate

When Dragan, Prinicp, Ratko, Jovan and some others serbs write in here, you can immediately tell that they are biased, passionately against independence, and simply don't like albanians. But I can understand that since they are serbs (I don't mean that as an insult, i mean considering the animosity between to two nations, and all the hisotry, while I do not agreen with you opinions and mentality, I understand it).

But you Kate, you claim not to be a Serb or have any serbian connection, and I simply cannot understand the fact that you are completely biased, and while you attempt to show consideration for albanians, your dislike for them (us) is very obvious.

Kate,
Besides which everyone knows that Kosovo won't be the end. It will then be the same in Macedonia, Presevo Valley, Montenegro...
I can see that is being really difficult for you to understand the whole Kosova issue. You are messing up rhe history and the facts in the Balcan. Let me ask you what is stopping the Albanians in Macedonia now to ask for what you are fearing so much? What it has to do with Kosova independence from Serbia? How do you Serbia establishing its authority and sovereignity over Kosova? Do you really think that is viable? Again I appeal to you to look into the REAL FACTS as well as historical ones. It is just impossible for the Kosovar Albanians to be Serbian citizens. When it comes to Macedonia, there was a conflict (not a war) as you might know between the two nationalities in Macedonia followed by an agreement signed by all political parties in Macedonia. The Albanians in Macedonia are in government and both nationalities are working together to fullfill their obligations as agreed. The relationship between Macedonia and Albanian are very good. Both countries are aiming to join NATO by 2008. So there are no comparison beween Serbia and Macedonia in any aspects. If the political situation follows its natural progress with Kosova being fully independent as prescribed by Ahtisari Plan as well as the Kosovar Albanian open Offer to Serbia plus guaranteed rights for the Serbian minority in Kosova as well as the Albanian minority in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegja in southern Serbia there should be no conflict in the region if there is a will by the Serbian government.

Kate how come you use the word separatist as if it were a four letter word? The Serbs were separatists once upon a time and now it is the turn of the K-Albanians. That is usually how nations and states are created and whether you like it or not you are witnessing the birth pangs of the state of Kosova. Of course it's gonna be difficult in the beginning,no one can deny that, but first things first. And the first thing is status, because as far physical Serb control of Kosova is concerned that belongs to the past.
Peter: I love your use of medical terminology to describe Kosova but don't you think that it is far more likely for Serbia to become some sort of Russian tumor in the Balkans? Just a thought.
And by the way it is no use arguing over D'Allema's statement. As a good Italian he knows how to speak a lot and say nothing. Both sides can interpret his words in their favor if they so wish.

"Italy advocates a solution acceptable to both parties. If such a settlement is found, a UN resolution and a solution in line with international law will be adopted,"

- a solution in line with UN law i.e. not the forced and imposed will of the US! Of course they might try but at that point the US and any others who illegally recognise any illegal unilateral declaration will be acting outside of and against the UN and the UN SC Resolution that they formulated and signed. Diplomatic effrts at this point will have been turned into military agression against the Soverign state of Serbia - Serbia wishes to choose diplomatic solutions but as Senator Hilary Clinton (currently front runner for the Democrats Presedential candidate) said for the US

"Use our military not as the solution to every problem but as one element in a comprehensive strategy. As president, I will never hesitate to use force to protect Americans or to defend our territory and our vital interests. We cannot negotiate with individual terrorists; they must be hunted down and captured or killed." p2
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20071101faessay86601-p10/hillary-rodham-clinton/security-and-opportunity-for-the-twenty-first-century.html

Is the US really prepared to open up another illegal front when the Winter snows begin to melt after Serbia has kept the diplomatic channel open for one last attempt to resolve this via jaw-jaw or do they not respect other nations the same rights that they expect for themselves?

Tadic is still currently the Serbian President and has hinted that Diplomacy is the prefered option but as any President worthy of being the President of their State I doubt he would hesitate to defend all our citizens (irrespective of ethnicity), our territory and vital interests.

Jaw-jaw after the 10th December will always be prefrable to the alternative of war-war - does the US not want stability?

You should check the whole interview of Mr. D'Alema. His main sentence is not posted here by this site though, and he said: Kosovo will never be part of Serbia again.

Hmmm...why did someone miss this...?

EA: "He also advises the Serbian government to be realistic that it has nothing to offer when it comes to "autonomy"."

He never even said this! Are you now resorting to putting words into peoples' mouths?

"Kosova is physically independent from Serbia since 1999 and that was definately not an Serbian offer but let's ask Kate, Jovanovic, Cvele and others what was it?"

Well, I don't really understand your question.

But I will say that Kosovo remains a legal part of the sovereign territory of Serbia as confirmed by the existence of UN Resolution 1244. The US and Serbia, along with other European nations, are forming relations in all sorts of ways within the framework of this existing status.

Not everyone believes that the integrity of a European nation's borders can be breached to placate an independence-seeking monoethnic minority because they form a majority in one province. That is not the way that anyone in Europe wishes to travel.

The ground you stand on when presenting your argument is very weak in any real legal or logical sense.

Whatever headway is made, the fundamental question of sovereignty are disagreed upon by both sides, so what progress has been made?

I do wish for an agreement, but I can see it is impossible, Serbia will not accept independence, Kosovo will not accept autonomy, and there is no inbetween.

The major powers should just come to a decision and then prepare for the consequences, because I doubt that any decision will please both sides.

D'Alemma last week claimed that Serbia 'occupied' Kosovo back in 1999. This just goes to show this guy doesn't know which way is up, and should not be taken seriously.
As to all the albanians who keep claiming Kosovo is already independent, I would like to remind them that without Russia's consent, it will never be independent. In addition, without agreement from Slovakia, Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Romania and Hungary's consent, they will never be able to join Europe. The bargaining position of the albanian side is very weak. The Kosovo economy is worse than third world levels, while Serbia is surging ahead, and soon will be the biggest economic power in the Balkans. Even if greater albania is recognized by somec countries, it will never have legal status, which means that Serbia can sit back wait for the right time to take it back. What does this mean? It means constant instability in Kosovo, no investment, economic blockade on Kosovo, no future, no hope, and even more misery than there is now. The albanian bargaining position is worse than terrible.

I agree Peter that a solution may have to be forced, but Serbia's integrity and international law have to be respected. These are the most important things.

This has nothing to do with earlier wars which were settled by the signing of Res. 1244.

It is far more important to keep Serbia on side and heading in the right direction, than to create a monoethnic state illegally out of 15% of Serbian territory and create a dangerous precedent and a division in Europe.

I am not a Serbian, but I really do see dangers if Kosovo is given independence. It will give a green light to separatist groups around Europe and beyond.

Besides which everyone knows that Kosovo won't be the end. It will then be the same in Macedonia, Presevo Valley, Montenegro...

If there is any logic left in Europe, this must not be allowed to happen.

kate

I agree with you entirely, but I can see this is not going to work as we want it to. Ideally, Kosovo and Serbia would finally come to an agreement, but realistically, I see this:

Kosovo declares unilateral independence, US and some others recognize it, Serbia refuses to accept the Ahtisaari Plan because of UNSCR1244, Russia recognizes separatist states in Georgia, Azerbaijan and Moldova (since they don't differ at all from Kosovo) in response to the West and we will still not have stability in the Balkans.

But not even looking at the bigger picture, fact is:

Kosovo will be some abortion in the Balkans that cannot join the UN and EU and Serbia will have this tumor that it has zero control over, if you pardon my rather crude comparison.

Nikshala - "Kate: while you attempt to show consideration for albanians, your dislike for them (us) is very obvious."

Not true at all, I can promise you. I do feel strongly about the issue but wish no ill will to people in the least, at all.

first of all, EA, I don´t know what it is that drives you, but if you think that I am annoyed if you call me Jovanovic... you´re pretty off the way! let me call you Djokovic ( say: Joke-ovic )!

by the way, Lazer is STILL the only Albanian who condemned the brutal beating of a 78-years old serbian woman...

that alone is a reason for all others here to feel ashamed!


KS, instead loosing yourself in unimportant questions about percentages ( you have already proven that math is not your strongest hobby )...you should rather think twice before posting, because...slowly but more and more clearly you are making the impression to all others that you only write here because you love to read your own comments!

and if you may repeat it once more, so that EVEN YOU get it FINALLY: KS, I neither do have any prejudices against Albanians, nor do I hate them. so stop those lies about me, being arrogant and hating Albanians.
that is a simple lie! and comparing me with Milošević could be compared with stupidity.

so, please stop that, it doesn´t help you at all.

teni

I agree, it was a bit of a crude analogy, I apologize for offense, I meant none. I don't think Serbia is Russia's tumor, but rather a pawn in their new game against the USA.

Jovan the only one who loves to read his own words is you, and also don't respond to other posts as if I wrote them..bc I didn't.

You are right when you say my math isn't good.

10,887 km² / 88,361 km² (113th) = 12%

12 does NOT equal 15 !!

I think Serbian politicians use number 15 as in 15% because they have UEM (Updated-Events-Map), which sees Presevo Valley attached to Kosova and separated from Serbia...you know 12% (Kosova) + 3% (Presevo Valley)= 15%. Who said they don't know what they're saying? ;-)