33

Tuesday, 23.10.2007.

14:23

IMF: Kosovo cannot finance itself

The economy in Kosovo is not conducive to sustainable development, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) said yesterday.

Izvor: Tanjug

IMF: Kosovo cannot finance itself IMAGE SOURCE
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33 Komentari

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frukyy

pre 16 godina

Milan I never said Kosova or Serbia are doing well. First let’s talk about status: Kosova is technically part of Serbia and managed by UNMIK so it is not possible for Kosova government to get any official Loans from World Bank. Let’s not talk about credibility please. It is just absurd asking the others to be accountable when Serbian regime has betrayed their own good citizens in the name of some eccentric minority leaded by a man who has a family with established mental illness (both Milosevic parents committed suicide). Those are the roots of the problem and if Balkan nations can’t pass the point and ask for forgiveness each other there will be another bloodshed.
It is time for the true Serbian citizens who share a modern vision of the world to wake up and contribute to the progress instead of living in some myths.
Now about economics let’s just say Kosova has the youngest population in Europe. If only the factories already in place start working at full capacity it would lead to a positive economic situation and of course they will expect investments as well.
Now instead of worrying about others Serbia should look at their own economic situation because everyone is suffering expect the Serbs from Kosova who are living luxurious life financed by Serbian government.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

johny, I am afraid you won´t be in the position to exploit the serbian territory of KiM.

you still do not understand that it is not yours alone. you only live there, but it is Serbia. like it or not.

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johny

pre 16 godina

Lets be open and discuss this a little.

1. Serbians do not like Albanians.
2. Kosova/o is made of 95% Albanians.
3. Kosova/o economy is horrible.

Yet at the same time against all these negatives the Serbs are doing the impossible to keep Kosova/o. Naturally I wonder where is the catch? There's gotta be something, that would make the Serbs to want Kosova/o with all its negativities so bad. (Please spare me your mythical stories they don't count as reasons.)
I doubt the reason is because Serbs are such good people that they want to waste all their money to improve the economy of the Albanians, and feed the Albanians. So naturally I think Kosova/o must not be bad, it must have a great potential, if not nobody would even want to have anything with it.
So thank you Serbian posters, but we do not need your help. Thank you for all the promised money but I think we we'll try to suffer for a few years and have the exploits of Kosova's potential go to the people who live there rather than be redirected to Belgrade.

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Ovich

pre 16 godina

CIA fact book is not acurate either. Its the same thing as wikipedia.

Second yes kosovo IS included in serbia.
Our politicians and economist DO include kosovo when they talk about our economy.

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 0
Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

My stats are from the IMF, not the CIA website which shows statistics from 2005 and 2006, and not 2007.

Obviously Serbia will have less, because Kosovo's economic disaster is counted in. If it weren't, Serbia would be somewhere between Bosnia and Croatia in terms of economic performance.

But yes, I have never been to the Balkans so I can't tell you anything as I have not seen it with my own eyes.

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KS

pre 16 godina

Mito, where did I miss that? It doesn't say that here.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

"jovan i have followed your posters. Here is what you called the other poster "don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here... "he provided cia links and you provided him wikipedia. the only teenager would be you.
(kosova, 23. October 2007 22:51)"

kosovo,

so, you followed my posts...uh?

then you should know what I think of wikipedia, actually.

sorry dude, but both, neither wikipedia nor cia links do have a significant credibility in my eyes.

never mind, it was nice try.

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Delije

pre 16 godina

Miri, What do think your nuetral & and full of facts? Sorry friend, you not only described 90% of the posters here and your self included, not to mention myself also, but both sides do the same thing and try to get under each others skin. You should know better than to take ever post here serously. Well back to the topic at hand the Serbian land of KosovO... ;-)

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 0
Mito

pre 16 godina

Looks like you forgot one thing from CIA, KS

$4,400 for Serbia (including Kosovo) (2005 est.)

notice anything? (incl-K & 2005 est)

Just for comparison --

GDP (PPP) 2007

Serbia - $7,234

Albania - $6,259

cheers.......

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 0
kosova

pre 16 godina

jovan i have followed your posters. Here is what you called the other poster "don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here... "he provided cia links and you provided him wikipedia. the only teenager would be you.

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 1
Mito

pre 16 godina

Is Serbia doing any better?

Has any albanian honestly know even look at the stats on the Serbian economy?

the economy grows at 6-7% annually, direct foreign investments is huge. Serbia has paid all of its IMF and WB debt and no longer requires loans.

Speaking on a economic standpoint Serbia is the most stable country to enter the EU in the region by far.

GDP: total

Serbia - $54.310 billion

FYROM - $16.94 billion

Albania - $19.818 billion

Slovenia $43.690 billion (EU country)

need I go one? now imagine Kosovo.....

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 0
Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

Instead of facing the reality of limited finacial help from the IMF we have certain posters writing about slurs and being disrespectful the truth is Kosovo cannot secured funding to pay the 1.2 billion dollar debt it owes, do you think Serbia is going to pay it No probably not freedom is not free no matter how much of spin you put on it face facts and deal with it instead of crying to B92 to allow such words as zip, nada, squat that is what Kosovo will have if it continues it's demands for independence. EU is a money making entity they don't believe in endless investment without a return

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 1
Mike

pre 16 godina

KS, I do like the article you provided on the wine. It many not be much, but at the very least it shows Serb and Albanian cooperation, and I wish it all the best.

I'm certainly not trying to deride Kosovo for it's economic plight. Any region caught in political limbo will invariably be economically crippled. But it's going to take more than a few vineyard co-ops to bring the region out of its poverty, and it's going take an even bigger task eliminating many organized crime units that have personally benefitted from a general suffering of the population. Just pumping money into the region doesn't solve anything. We need to provide a sorely needed education curriculum to train all people in Kosovo - Serbs, Albanians, whoever - to take the initiative and be innovators and thinkers, rather than just grunt workers. We also need to make sure the brains of Kosovo do not use their new passports for a one-way ride out of the region for a better life in Western Europe of the States. Politics, society, economics, and culture, are all linked.

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 0
miri

pre 16 godina

Djuic: "..They've been pumping money into Kosovo like theres no tomorrow and the result.......nothing. Exactly!! Zip!! Squat!! Nothing!! You're not fit to rule yourselves."

To B92 editor. I am really grateful that you don't allow any harsh language coming from Albanian posters to be published, while in the mean time agree to post such derogatory and racial insults comming from serb commentators. After all the discussions taking place between two sides in this forum are not to change our positions towards each other but more directed to those who don't know who Serbs and Albanians are. Comments like above, in particular the last sentence is an excellent example that truly shows the face and the mentality of a Serb Nationalist.
Thank you B92 for allowing such comment.
Even more thank you if you allow this comment of mine to be posted.

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 6
Jovan

pre 16 godina

to "Mark Green":

keep in mind that there is no "albanian part" of Kosovo, all of it is a serbian province!

don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here...

if you are not one of them, just trying to deceive with false names, false identities and so on ...as usual.


this little hint by the IMF is something the Albanians here cannot understand since they are still caught in the illusion of their illyrian descent....

waking up from that ( false ) dream will be a hard process for them, I guess.

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 0
Mike

pre 16 godina

Coming strictly from an economic and numbers standpoint, why then would Serbia want to hold onto this economic albatross? Didn't years of what essentially amounted to dumping dinars down the drain through FADURK tell you something something? Slovenia knew this early on and wanted out. Why would Serbia want to barely retain a land that's both broke and angry?

Secure special rights and privileges to your Serbian enclaves and monasteries. Let the rest be Europe's problem to fix.

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 0
GSP

pre 16 godina

Good! Finally someone had a cup of coffee before they opened their mouth.

To the albanian posters - keep on dreaming the impossible dream!

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 0
KS

pre 16 godina

Peter you are assuming too much. For starters I just posted a few articles, irrelevant but made my point. I don't know if you read the articles but I will tell you what I was trying to say.

Even though Privatization is HELL because of Serbia (blocking privatization) and UNMIK Kosova is still slowly progressing.

Also don't try to fool anyone with wikipedia data.

Here are FACTS (CIA.GOV)


GDP - per capita (PPP)

143 Serbia $ 4,400

125 Albania $ 5,700

127 Bosnia and Herzegovina $ 5,600

75 Croatia $ 13,400


^^^ I thought I'd post some of the neighboring countries of Serbia. Except for Montenegro (newest country) everyone is doing MUCH BETTER. Also while some countries such as Bosnia and Kosova experienced COMPLETE destruction of infrastructure (meaning had to REBUILD at least 60%) they are STILL doing MUCH BETTER than Serbia. Serbia only suffered bombings in 1999.

Tell me, since when are these outsiders who have never seen Kosova with their own lives (besides google.com) all of a sudden experts?

~Kosova

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 3
Delije

pre 16 godina

Well DUH!!!
What did you expect from Pristina. Their main goal is indepndence and their second goal is.... well I think they haven't thought that far yet. Maybe partition is the best result. Serbia gets N- Kosovo and Pristina gets s-kosovo and the $500 million bill. Mark Green your right, Serbia should let Pristina have only the Albanian parts and Serbia should keep the main Serbian part and thats N-Kosovo. Ratko,Milan,PB, right on!

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 0
Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

Most European countries have stable, or almost stable, developed or almost developed economies based on a ratio of approximately 60%-70% services, 15%-25% industry and the rest agriculture, minimized trade deficit and growth about 2%-3% (developed countries) and 5%-10% (developing) and your counter-argument is Kosovo's fish and wine trade?

Here's a reality check for you:

GDP Growth: 3% (for an under-developed economy like Kosovo, that is very low!)

GDP: 4.69bn (of that, 34% foreign assistance and 13% remittances from Kosovars abroad, in other words almost 50% is outside help! Even tiny Montenegro has GDP at $3.39bn)

GDP per head: $2 130 (better than Moldova at $2 100, but less than Montenegro at $3 800)

Trade Deficit: 95% (to give you a comparison, even second worst Montenegro's is 72%)

Unemployment is 40%-50% (to compare, even second worst Montenegro's is 27.7%)

Population below poverty line: what was it, like 80%?

Inflation level is low though, so one plus.

I understand Kosovo's desire for independence, but really, economically it is just not viable. It will, of course, get better once the UN stops its administration there, but it really has no basis for self-sustenance. It would be as pointless as an independent Moldova (should join with Romania, at least Romania is getting better) or independent Montenegro (was better off with Serbia, before NATO came along)

My point: independent Kosovo would be more harmful to the Kosovars than under Serbia whose economy is in an infinitely better position (even though it is not particularly good when compared to neighboring Croatia or Bulgaria, but anyway...

Hamid Kari and Kristian

Yes, it is much better than in Kosovo. Using what I wrote for KS as comparison, here are Serbia's statistics:

GDP: $54.310bn
GDP Growth: 8.7%
GDP per capita: $7 234
GDP by sector: agriculture (16.6%), industry (25.5%), services (57.9%) (not perfect, but far better than Kosovo)
Unemployment: 20.9%
Inflation: 6.6% (higher than Kosovo
Trade Deficit: 51%
Population below poverty: 20%

See? Serbia is a good few steps ahead of Kosovo. Point being, if Serbia were to join the EU with Kosovo as a part of it, it would enjoy major infrastructural growth and development of services.

On its own, five countries would veto its entry to the EU.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 0
KS

pre 16 godina

Also this link, doesn't talk about the economy but a single enterprise.

http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=733

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 2
djuic

pre 16 godina

Of course it can't finance itself. There is no economy in Kosovo. The West has been in Kosovo for over 9 nines. They've been pumping money into Kosovo like theres no tomorrow and the result.......nothing. Exactly!! Zip!! Squat!! Nothing!! You're not fit to rule yourselves.

Preporučujem 11 Ne preporučujem 1
frasn

pre 16 godina

Curious EA, Ahmet,and some others, hiding under USA names: Did you expect something else? These 1,2 Billion is made during only 8 years of Kosovo under International control. What would it be after 20 years of independence? The world will take this IMF remark very seriously and think twice before adopting another poorhouse!

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 1
KS

pre 16 godina

Ratko your only wish is for Kosova to be in turmoil forever. Since your only source of information is B92, I thought I'd post some links to read about Kosova.

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=071023062012.9j41okva&cat=null
http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=732

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 2
PB

pre 16 godina

Now it's all clear: Ceku and his buddies desperation to keep hold of the northern part of Kosovo and the Trepca mines. Without these, Kosovo is sunk economically.

Maybe some of the Albanian fantasists who post how wonderful the Kosovo economy is, will wake up. Then again, it's hard to come to terms with the truth sometimes, especially when you lose face.

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 1
liburni

pre 16 godina

Really?? There must be some conflicting reports....here is an article posted yesterday about improvements in the economy:

http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=732

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 3
Hamid Kari

pre 16 godina

Wow! Is Serbia doing any better? There never was an industry in Kosova.Kosova shouldn't pay any debt because whatever was build there, was destroyed by Serbs.

Preporučujem 1 Ne preporučujem 9
Milan

pre 16 godina

hey frukyy i thought kosovo was doing so well they didn't need serbia to borrow for it... serbia borrowed for kosovo because kosovo has such bad credit they cant get a loan by themselves!

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 1
Kristian

pre 16 godina

And the Great Kingdom of Serbia is only 1 step ahead, ok ok maybe 2 steps.

Imagine what the economy of all the FROY could of been had there been no wars!!!!!

Peace to all!

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 1
Mark Green

pre 16 godina

If Kosovo is such a drain, wouldn't it be better to let the Albanian part become independent, then perhaps Serbia will flourish without Kosovo. Serbia clearly doesn't want the Albanians, so why not? Or do they wish merly to have the land?

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 1
Pijetro

pre 16 godina

As much as i would like for Kosovo to stay attached to Serbia on the map, there's a downside to such wants also...

Serbian people seriously need to ask themselves if they want to also carry the burden of Kosovo's economic woes...

And please, to the Albanians...
Let's ease up on the "It's the Serb's fault" rhetoric.

There's been 9+ years of foreign money and boots that have removed Serbia's control over Kosovo..Where is the collective results of this project??

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 1
Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

Most European countries have stable, or almost stable, developed or almost developed economies based on a ratio of approximately 60%-70% services, 15%-25% industry and the rest agriculture, minimized trade deficit and growth about 2%-3% (developed countries) and 5%-10% (developing) and your counter-argument is Kosovo's fish and wine trade?

Here's a reality check for you:

GDP Growth: 3% (for an under-developed economy like Kosovo, that is very low!)

GDP: 4.69bn (of that, 34% foreign assistance and 13% remittances from Kosovars abroad, in other words almost 50% is outside help! Even tiny Montenegro has GDP at $3.39bn)

GDP per head: $2 130 (better than Moldova at $2 100, but less than Montenegro at $3 800)

Trade Deficit: 95% (to give you a comparison, even second worst Montenegro's is 72%)

Unemployment is 40%-50% (to compare, even second worst Montenegro's is 27.7%)

Population below poverty line: what was it, like 80%?

Inflation level is low though, so one plus.

I understand Kosovo's desire for independence, but really, economically it is just not viable. It will, of course, get better once the UN stops its administration there, but it really has no basis for self-sustenance. It would be as pointless as an independent Moldova (should join with Romania, at least Romania is getting better) or independent Montenegro (was better off with Serbia, before NATO came along)

My point: independent Kosovo would be more harmful to the Kosovars than under Serbia whose economy is in an infinitely better position (even though it is not particularly good when compared to neighboring Croatia or Bulgaria, but anyway...

Hamid Kari and Kristian

Yes, it is much better than in Kosovo. Using what I wrote for KS as comparison, here are Serbia's statistics:

GDP: $54.310bn
GDP Growth: 8.7%
GDP per capita: $7 234
GDP by sector: agriculture (16.6%), industry (25.5%), services (57.9%) (not perfect, but far better than Kosovo)
Unemployment: 20.9%
Inflation: 6.6% (higher than Kosovo
Trade Deficit: 51%
Population below poverty: 20%

See? Serbia is a good few steps ahead of Kosovo. Point being, if Serbia were to join the EU with Kosovo as a part of it, it would enjoy major infrastructural growth and development of services.

On its own, five countries would veto its entry to the EU.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 0
djuic

pre 16 godina

Of course it can't finance itself. There is no economy in Kosovo. The West has been in Kosovo for over 9 nines. They've been pumping money into Kosovo like theres no tomorrow and the result.......nothing. Exactly!! Zip!! Squat!! Nothing!! You're not fit to rule yourselves.

Preporučujem 11 Ne preporučujem 1
Pijetro

pre 16 godina

As much as i would like for Kosovo to stay attached to Serbia on the map, there's a downside to such wants also...

Serbian people seriously need to ask themselves if they want to also carry the burden of Kosovo's economic woes...

And please, to the Albanians...
Let's ease up on the "It's the Serb's fault" rhetoric.

There's been 9+ years of foreign money and boots that have removed Serbia's control over Kosovo..Where is the collective results of this project??

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 1
PB

pre 16 godina

Now it's all clear: Ceku and his buddies desperation to keep hold of the northern part of Kosovo and the Trepca mines. Without these, Kosovo is sunk economically.

Maybe some of the Albanian fantasists who post how wonderful the Kosovo economy is, will wake up. Then again, it's hard to come to terms with the truth sometimes, especially when you lose face.

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 1
Delije

pre 16 godina

Well DUH!!!
What did you expect from Pristina. Their main goal is indepndence and their second goal is.... well I think they haven't thought that far yet. Maybe partition is the best result. Serbia gets N- Kosovo and Pristina gets s-kosovo and the $500 million bill. Mark Green your right, Serbia should let Pristina have only the Albanian parts and Serbia should keep the main Serbian part and thats N-Kosovo. Ratko,Milan,PB, right on!

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 0
GSP

pre 16 godina

Good! Finally someone had a cup of coffee before they opened their mouth.

To the albanian posters - keep on dreaming the impossible dream!

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 0
Milan

pre 16 godina

hey frukyy i thought kosovo was doing so well they didn't need serbia to borrow for it... serbia borrowed for kosovo because kosovo has such bad credit they cant get a loan by themselves!

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 1
frasn

pre 16 godina

Curious EA, Ahmet,and some others, hiding under USA names: Did you expect something else? These 1,2 Billion is made during only 8 years of Kosovo under International control. What would it be after 20 years of independence? The world will take this IMF remark very seriously and think twice before adopting another poorhouse!

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 1
Jovan

pre 16 godina

to "Mark Green":

keep in mind that there is no "albanian part" of Kosovo, all of it is a serbian province!

don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here...

if you are not one of them, just trying to deceive with false names, false identities and so on ...as usual.


this little hint by the IMF is something the Albanians here cannot understand since they are still caught in the illusion of their illyrian descent....

waking up from that ( false ) dream will be a hard process for them, I guess.

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 0
Mark Green

pre 16 godina

If Kosovo is such a drain, wouldn't it be better to let the Albanian part become independent, then perhaps Serbia will flourish without Kosovo. Serbia clearly doesn't want the Albanians, so why not? Or do they wish merly to have the land?

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 1
Mito

pre 16 godina

Is Serbia doing any better?

Has any albanian honestly know even look at the stats on the Serbian economy?

the economy grows at 6-7% annually, direct foreign investments is huge. Serbia has paid all of its IMF and WB debt and no longer requires loans.

Speaking on a economic standpoint Serbia is the most stable country to enter the EU in the region by far.

GDP: total

Serbia - $54.310 billion

FYROM - $16.94 billion

Albania - $19.818 billion

Slovenia $43.690 billion (EU country)

need I go one? now imagine Kosovo.....

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 0
Mito

pre 16 godina

Looks like you forgot one thing from CIA, KS

$4,400 for Serbia (including Kosovo) (2005 est.)

notice anything? (incl-K & 2005 est)

Just for comparison --

GDP (PPP) 2007

Serbia - $7,234

Albania - $6,259

cheers.......

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 0
Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

Instead of facing the reality of limited finacial help from the IMF we have certain posters writing about slurs and being disrespectful the truth is Kosovo cannot secured funding to pay the 1.2 billion dollar debt it owes, do you think Serbia is going to pay it No probably not freedom is not free no matter how much of spin you put on it face facts and deal with it instead of crying to B92 to allow such words as zip, nada, squat that is what Kosovo will have if it continues it's demands for independence. EU is a money making entity they don't believe in endless investment without a return

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 1
Ovich

pre 16 godina

CIA fact book is not acurate either. Its the same thing as wikipedia.

Second yes kosovo IS included in serbia.
Our politicians and economist DO include kosovo when they talk about our economy.

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 0
Delije

pre 16 godina

Miri, What do think your nuetral & and full of facts? Sorry friend, you not only described 90% of the posters here and your self included, not to mention myself also, but both sides do the same thing and try to get under each others skin. You should know better than to take ever post here serously. Well back to the topic at hand the Serbian land of KosovO... ;-)

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 0
Kristian

pre 16 godina

And the Great Kingdom of Serbia is only 1 step ahead, ok ok maybe 2 steps.

Imagine what the economy of all the FROY could of been had there been no wars!!!!!

Peace to all!

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 1
Mike

pre 16 godina

Coming strictly from an economic and numbers standpoint, why then would Serbia want to hold onto this economic albatross? Didn't years of what essentially amounted to dumping dinars down the drain through FADURK tell you something something? Slovenia knew this early on and wanted out. Why would Serbia want to barely retain a land that's both broke and angry?

Secure special rights and privileges to your Serbian enclaves and monasteries. Let the rest be Europe's problem to fix.

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 0
KS

pre 16 godina

Peter you are assuming too much. For starters I just posted a few articles, irrelevant but made my point. I don't know if you read the articles but I will tell you what I was trying to say.

Even though Privatization is HELL because of Serbia (blocking privatization) and UNMIK Kosova is still slowly progressing.

Also don't try to fool anyone with wikipedia data.

Here are FACTS (CIA.GOV)


GDP - per capita (PPP)

143 Serbia $ 4,400

125 Albania $ 5,700

127 Bosnia and Herzegovina $ 5,600

75 Croatia $ 13,400


^^^ I thought I'd post some of the neighboring countries of Serbia. Except for Montenegro (newest country) everyone is doing MUCH BETTER. Also while some countries such as Bosnia and Kosova experienced COMPLETE destruction of infrastructure (meaning had to REBUILD at least 60%) they are STILL doing MUCH BETTER than Serbia. Serbia only suffered bombings in 1999.

Tell me, since when are these outsiders who have never seen Kosova with their own lives (besides google.com) all of a sudden experts?

~Kosova

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 3
miri

pre 16 godina

Djuic: "..They've been pumping money into Kosovo like theres no tomorrow and the result.......nothing. Exactly!! Zip!! Squat!! Nothing!! You're not fit to rule yourselves."

To B92 editor. I am really grateful that you don't allow any harsh language coming from Albanian posters to be published, while in the mean time agree to post such derogatory and racial insults comming from serb commentators. After all the discussions taking place between two sides in this forum are not to change our positions towards each other but more directed to those who don't know who Serbs and Albanians are. Comments like above, in particular the last sentence is an excellent example that truly shows the face and the mentality of a Serb Nationalist.
Thank you B92 for allowing such comment.
Even more thank you if you allow this comment of mine to be posted.

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 6
Mike

pre 16 godina

KS, I do like the article you provided on the wine. It many not be much, but at the very least it shows Serb and Albanian cooperation, and I wish it all the best.

I'm certainly not trying to deride Kosovo for it's economic plight. Any region caught in political limbo will invariably be economically crippled. But it's going to take more than a few vineyard co-ops to bring the region out of its poverty, and it's going take an even bigger task eliminating many organized crime units that have personally benefitted from a general suffering of the population. Just pumping money into the region doesn't solve anything. We need to provide a sorely needed education curriculum to train all people in Kosovo - Serbs, Albanians, whoever - to take the initiative and be innovators and thinkers, rather than just grunt workers. We also need to make sure the brains of Kosovo do not use their new passports for a one-way ride out of the region for a better life in Western Europe of the States. Politics, society, economics, and culture, are all linked.

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 0
Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

My stats are from the IMF, not the CIA website which shows statistics from 2005 and 2006, and not 2007.

Obviously Serbia will have less, because Kosovo's economic disaster is counted in. If it weren't, Serbia would be somewhere between Bosnia and Croatia in terms of economic performance.

But yes, I have never been to the Balkans so I can't tell you anything as I have not seen it with my own eyes.

Preporučujem 2 Ne preporučujem 0
Hamid Kari

pre 16 godina

Wow! Is Serbia doing any better? There never was an industry in Kosova.Kosova shouldn't pay any debt because whatever was build there, was destroyed by Serbs.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

"jovan i have followed your posters. Here is what you called the other poster "don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here... "he provided cia links and you provided him wikipedia. the only teenager would be you.
(kosova, 23. October 2007 22:51)"

kosovo,

so, you followed my posts...uh?

then you should know what I think of wikipedia, actually.

sorry dude, but both, neither wikipedia nor cia links do have a significant credibility in my eyes.

never mind, it was nice try.

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frukyy

pre 16 godina

Milan I never said Kosova or Serbia are doing well. First let’s talk about status: Kosova is technically part of Serbia and managed by UNMIK so it is not possible for Kosova government to get any official Loans from World Bank. Let’s not talk about credibility please. It is just absurd asking the others to be accountable when Serbian regime has betrayed their own good citizens in the name of some eccentric minority leaded by a man who has a family with established mental illness (both Milosevic parents committed suicide). Those are the roots of the problem and if Balkan nations can’t pass the point and ask for forgiveness each other there will be another bloodshed.
It is time for the true Serbian citizens who share a modern vision of the world to wake up and contribute to the progress instead of living in some myths.
Now about economics let’s just say Kosova has the youngest population in Europe. If only the factories already in place start working at full capacity it would lead to a positive economic situation and of course they will expect investments as well.
Now instead of worrying about others Serbia should look at their own economic situation because everyone is suffering expect the Serbs from Kosova who are living luxurious life financed by Serbian government.

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liburni

pre 16 godina

Really?? There must be some conflicting reports....here is an article posted yesterday about improvements in the economy:

http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=732

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KS

pre 16 godina

Ratko your only wish is for Kosova to be in turmoil forever. Since your only source of information is B92, I thought I'd post some links to read about Kosova.

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=071023062012.9j41okva&cat=null
http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=732

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KS

pre 16 godina

Also this link, doesn't talk about the economy but a single enterprise.

http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=733

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kosova

pre 16 godina

jovan i have followed your posters. Here is what you called the other poster "don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here... "he provided cia links and you provided him wikipedia. the only teenager would be you.

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KS

pre 16 godina

Mito, where did I miss that? It doesn't say that here.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

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johny

pre 16 godina

Lets be open and discuss this a little.

1. Serbians do not like Albanians.
2. Kosova/o is made of 95% Albanians.
3. Kosova/o economy is horrible.

Yet at the same time against all these negatives the Serbs are doing the impossible to keep Kosova/o. Naturally I wonder where is the catch? There's gotta be something, that would make the Serbs to want Kosova/o with all its negativities so bad. (Please spare me your mythical stories they don't count as reasons.)
I doubt the reason is because Serbs are such good people that they want to waste all their money to improve the economy of the Albanians, and feed the Albanians. So naturally I think Kosova/o must not be bad, it must have a great potential, if not nobody would even want to have anything with it.
So thank you Serbian posters, but we do not need your help. Thank you for all the promised money but I think we we'll try to suffer for a few years and have the exploits of Kosova's potential go to the people who live there rather than be redirected to Belgrade.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

johny, I am afraid you won´t be in the position to exploit the serbian territory of KiM.

you still do not understand that it is not yours alone. you only live there, but it is Serbia. like it or not.

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Hamid Kari

pre 16 godina

Wow! Is Serbia doing any better? There never was an industry in Kosova.Kosova shouldn't pay any debt because whatever was build there, was destroyed by Serbs.

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miri

pre 16 godina

Djuic: "..They've been pumping money into Kosovo like theres no tomorrow and the result.......nothing. Exactly!! Zip!! Squat!! Nothing!! You're not fit to rule yourselves."

To B92 editor. I am really grateful that you don't allow any harsh language coming from Albanian posters to be published, while in the mean time agree to post such derogatory and racial insults comming from serb commentators. After all the discussions taking place between two sides in this forum are not to change our positions towards each other but more directed to those who don't know who Serbs and Albanians are. Comments like above, in particular the last sentence is an excellent example that truly shows the face and the mentality of a Serb Nationalist.
Thank you B92 for allowing such comment.
Even more thank you if you allow this comment of mine to be posted.

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liburni

pre 16 godina

Really?? There must be some conflicting reports....here is an article posted yesterday about improvements in the economy:

http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=732

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KS

pre 16 godina

Peter you are assuming too much. For starters I just posted a few articles, irrelevant but made my point. I don't know if you read the articles but I will tell you what I was trying to say.

Even though Privatization is HELL because of Serbia (blocking privatization) and UNMIK Kosova is still slowly progressing.

Also don't try to fool anyone with wikipedia data.

Here are FACTS (CIA.GOV)


GDP - per capita (PPP)

143 Serbia $ 4,400

125 Albania $ 5,700

127 Bosnia and Herzegovina $ 5,600

75 Croatia $ 13,400


^^^ I thought I'd post some of the neighboring countries of Serbia. Except for Montenegro (newest country) everyone is doing MUCH BETTER. Also while some countries such as Bosnia and Kosova experienced COMPLETE destruction of infrastructure (meaning had to REBUILD at least 60%) they are STILL doing MUCH BETTER than Serbia. Serbia only suffered bombings in 1999.

Tell me, since when are these outsiders who have never seen Kosova with their own lives (besides google.com) all of a sudden experts?

~Kosova

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KS

pre 16 godina

Ratko your only wish is for Kosova to be in turmoil forever. Since your only source of information is B92, I thought I'd post some links to read about Kosova.

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=071023062012.9j41okva&cat=null
http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=732

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KS

pre 16 godina

Also this link, doesn't talk about the economy but a single enterprise.

http://www.eciks.org/english/lajme.php?action=total_news&main_id=733

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Pijetro

pre 16 godina

As much as i would like for Kosovo to stay attached to Serbia on the map, there's a downside to such wants also...

Serbian people seriously need to ask themselves if they want to also carry the burden of Kosovo's economic woes...

And please, to the Albanians...
Let's ease up on the "It's the Serb's fault" rhetoric.

There's been 9+ years of foreign money and boots that have removed Serbia's control over Kosovo..Where is the collective results of this project??

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Mark Green

pre 16 godina

If Kosovo is such a drain, wouldn't it be better to let the Albanian part become independent, then perhaps Serbia will flourish without Kosovo. Serbia clearly doesn't want the Albanians, so why not? Or do they wish merly to have the land?

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Kristian

pre 16 godina

And the Great Kingdom of Serbia is only 1 step ahead, ok ok maybe 2 steps.

Imagine what the economy of all the FROY could of been had there been no wars!!!!!

Peace to all!

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Milan

pre 16 godina

hey frukyy i thought kosovo was doing so well they didn't need serbia to borrow for it... serbia borrowed for kosovo because kosovo has such bad credit they cant get a loan by themselves!

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PB

pre 16 godina

Now it's all clear: Ceku and his buddies desperation to keep hold of the northern part of Kosovo and the Trepca mines. Without these, Kosovo is sunk economically.

Maybe some of the Albanian fantasists who post how wonderful the Kosovo economy is, will wake up. Then again, it's hard to come to terms with the truth sometimes, especially when you lose face.

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frasn

pre 16 godina

Curious EA, Ahmet,and some others, hiding under USA names: Did you expect something else? These 1,2 Billion is made during only 8 years of Kosovo under International control. What would it be after 20 years of independence? The world will take this IMF remark very seriously and think twice before adopting another poorhouse!

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djuic

pre 16 godina

Of course it can't finance itself. There is no economy in Kosovo. The West has been in Kosovo for over 9 nines. They've been pumping money into Kosovo like theres no tomorrow and the result.......nothing. Exactly!! Zip!! Squat!! Nothing!! You're not fit to rule yourselves.

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Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

Instead of facing the reality of limited finacial help from the IMF we have certain posters writing about slurs and being disrespectful the truth is Kosovo cannot secured funding to pay the 1.2 billion dollar debt it owes, do you think Serbia is going to pay it No probably not freedom is not free no matter how much of spin you put on it face facts and deal with it instead of crying to B92 to allow such words as zip, nada, squat that is what Kosovo will have if it continues it's demands for independence. EU is a money making entity they don't believe in endless investment without a return

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kosova

pre 16 godina

jovan i have followed your posters. Here is what you called the other poster "don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here... "he provided cia links and you provided him wikipedia. the only teenager would be you.

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Delije

pre 16 godina

Well DUH!!!
What did you expect from Pristina. Their main goal is indepndence and their second goal is.... well I think they haven't thought that far yet. Maybe partition is the best result. Serbia gets N- Kosovo and Pristina gets s-kosovo and the $500 million bill. Mark Green your right, Serbia should let Pristina have only the Albanian parts and Serbia should keep the main Serbian part and thats N-Kosovo. Ratko,Milan,PB, right on!

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

Most European countries have stable, or almost stable, developed or almost developed economies based on a ratio of approximately 60%-70% services, 15%-25% industry and the rest agriculture, minimized trade deficit and growth about 2%-3% (developed countries) and 5%-10% (developing) and your counter-argument is Kosovo's fish and wine trade?

Here's a reality check for you:

GDP Growth: 3% (for an under-developed economy like Kosovo, that is very low!)

GDP: 4.69bn (of that, 34% foreign assistance and 13% remittances from Kosovars abroad, in other words almost 50% is outside help! Even tiny Montenegro has GDP at $3.39bn)

GDP per head: $2 130 (better than Moldova at $2 100, but less than Montenegro at $3 800)

Trade Deficit: 95% (to give you a comparison, even second worst Montenegro's is 72%)

Unemployment is 40%-50% (to compare, even second worst Montenegro's is 27.7%)

Population below poverty line: what was it, like 80%?

Inflation level is low though, so one plus.

I understand Kosovo's desire for independence, but really, economically it is just not viable. It will, of course, get better once the UN stops its administration there, but it really has no basis for self-sustenance. It would be as pointless as an independent Moldova (should join with Romania, at least Romania is getting better) or independent Montenegro (was better off with Serbia, before NATO came along)

My point: independent Kosovo would be more harmful to the Kosovars than under Serbia whose economy is in an infinitely better position (even though it is not particularly good when compared to neighboring Croatia or Bulgaria, but anyway...

Hamid Kari and Kristian

Yes, it is much better than in Kosovo. Using what I wrote for KS as comparison, here are Serbia's statistics:

GDP: $54.310bn
GDP Growth: 8.7%
GDP per capita: $7 234
GDP by sector: agriculture (16.6%), industry (25.5%), services (57.9%) (not perfect, but far better than Kosovo)
Unemployment: 20.9%
Inflation: 6.6% (higher than Kosovo
Trade Deficit: 51%
Population below poverty: 20%

See? Serbia is a good few steps ahead of Kosovo. Point being, if Serbia were to join the EU with Kosovo as a part of it, it would enjoy major infrastructural growth and development of services.

On its own, five countries would veto its entry to the EU.

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Mike

pre 16 godina

Coming strictly from an economic and numbers standpoint, why then would Serbia want to hold onto this economic albatross? Didn't years of what essentially amounted to dumping dinars down the drain through FADURK tell you something something? Slovenia knew this early on and wanted out. Why would Serbia want to barely retain a land that's both broke and angry?

Secure special rights and privileges to your Serbian enclaves and monasteries. Let the rest be Europe's problem to fix.

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GSP

pre 16 godina

Good! Finally someone had a cup of coffee before they opened their mouth.

To the albanian posters - keep on dreaming the impossible dream!

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Mike

pre 16 godina

KS, I do like the article you provided on the wine. It many not be much, but at the very least it shows Serb and Albanian cooperation, and I wish it all the best.

I'm certainly not trying to deride Kosovo for it's economic plight. Any region caught in political limbo will invariably be economically crippled. But it's going to take more than a few vineyard co-ops to bring the region out of its poverty, and it's going take an even bigger task eliminating many organized crime units that have personally benefitted from a general suffering of the population. Just pumping money into the region doesn't solve anything. We need to provide a sorely needed education curriculum to train all people in Kosovo - Serbs, Albanians, whoever - to take the initiative and be innovators and thinkers, rather than just grunt workers. We also need to make sure the brains of Kosovo do not use their new passports for a one-way ride out of the region for a better life in Western Europe of the States. Politics, society, economics, and culture, are all linked.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

to "Mark Green":

keep in mind that there is no "albanian part" of Kosovo, all of it is a serbian province!

don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here...

if you are not one of them, just trying to deceive with false names, false identities and so on ...as usual.


this little hint by the IMF is something the Albanians here cannot understand since they are still caught in the illusion of their illyrian descent....

waking up from that ( false ) dream will be a hard process for them, I guess.

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Mito

pre 16 godina

Is Serbia doing any better?

Has any albanian honestly know even look at the stats on the Serbian economy?

the economy grows at 6-7% annually, direct foreign investments is huge. Serbia has paid all of its IMF and WB debt and no longer requires loans.

Speaking on a economic standpoint Serbia is the most stable country to enter the EU in the region by far.

GDP: total

Serbia - $54.310 billion

FYROM - $16.94 billion

Albania - $19.818 billion

Slovenia $43.690 billion (EU country)

need I go one? now imagine Kosovo.....

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Mito

pre 16 godina

Looks like you forgot one thing from CIA, KS

$4,400 for Serbia (including Kosovo) (2005 est.)

notice anything? (incl-K & 2005 est)

Just for comparison --

GDP (PPP) 2007

Serbia - $7,234

Albania - $6,259

cheers.......

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Delije

pre 16 godina

Miri, What do think your nuetral & and full of facts? Sorry friend, you not only described 90% of the posters here and your self included, not to mention myself also, but both sides do the same thing and try to get under each others skin. You should know better than to take ever post here serously. Well back to the topic at hand the Serbian land of KosovO... ;-)

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

"jovan i have followed your posters. Here is what you called the other poster "don´t let yourself be fooled by some teenage-propaganda-posters here... "he provided cia links and you provided him wikipedia. the only teenager would be you.
(kosova, 23. October 2007 22:51)"

kosovo,

so, you followed my posts...uh?

then you should know what I think of wikipedia, actually.

sorry dude, but both, neither wikipedia nor cia links do have a significant credibility in my eyes.

never mind, it was nice try.

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KS

pre 16 godina

Mito, where did I miss that? It doesn't say that here.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

My stats are from the IMF, not the CIA website which shows statistics from 2005 and 2006, and not 2007.

Obviously Serbia will have less, because Kosovo's economic disaster is counted in. If it weren't, Serbia would be somewhere between Bosnia and Croatia in terms of economic performance.

But yes, I have never been to the Balkans so I can't tell you anything as I have not seen it with my own eyes.

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Ovich

pre 16 godina

CIA fact book is not acurate either. Its the same thing as wikipedia.

Second yes kosovo IS included in serbia.
Our politicians and economist DO include kosovo when they talk about our economy.

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johny

pre 16 godina

Lets be open and discuss this a little.

1. Serbians do not like Albanians.
2. Kosova/o is made of 95% Albanians.
3. Kosova/o economy is horrible.

Yet at the same time against all these negatives the Serbs are doing the impossible to keep Kosova/o. Naturally I wonder where is the catch? There's gotta be something, that would make the Serbs to want Kosova/o with all its negativities so bad. (Please spare me your mythical stories they don't count as reasons.)
I doubt the reason is because Serbs are such good people that they want to waste all their money to improve the economy of the Albanians, and feed the Albanians. So naturally I think Kosova/o must not be bad, it must have a great potential, if not nobody would even want to have anything with it.
So thank you Serbian posters, but we do not need your help. Thank you for all the promised money but I think we we'll try to suffer for a few years and have the exploits of Kosova's potential go to the people who live there rather than be redirected to Belgrade.

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 0
Jovan

pre 16 godina

johny, I am afraid you won´t be in the position to exploit the serbian territory of KiM.

you still do not understand that it is not yours alone. you only live there, but it is Serbia. like it or not.

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 0
frukyy

pre 16 godina

Milan I never said Kosova or Serbia are doing well. First let’s talk about status: Kosova is technically part of Serbia and managed by UNMIK so it is not possible for Kosova government to get any official Loans from World Bank. Let’s not talk about credibility please. It is just absurd asking the others to be accountable when Serbian regime has betrayed their own good citizens in the name of some eccentric minority leaded by a man who has a family with established mental illness (both Milosevic parents committed suicide). Those are the roots of the problem and if Balkan nations can’t pass the point and ask for forgiveness each other there will be another bloodshed.
It is time for the true Serbian citizens who share a modern vision of the world to wake up and contribute to the progress instead of living in some myths.
Now about economics let’s just say Kosova has the youngest population in Europe. If only the factories already in place start working at full capacity it would lead to a positive economic situation and of course they will expect investments as well.
Now instead of worrying about others Serbia should look at their own economic situation because everyone is suffering expect the Serbs from Kosova who are living luxurious life financed by Serbian government.

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