I am well aware of the Srebrenica massacre. The Bosniaks suffered a great deal, but on the other hand, Bosnia also had their fair share of war criminals. You heard of Naser Oric?
Peter, there is a certain element of pan-slavism that has been persistently hostile to Albanians, not only in the last conflict but throughout the last 100 years of European history. Especially when mixed with pan-orthodoxy. But of course this is not a clear cut line. Greeks for example, although not slavic, can be trusted to be Albanian-haters together with the Serbs and the Russians. Of course Slavic is a much broader term, and includes as you say Poles and Czechs as well as Croatians, Bulgarians and Bosnians and many others that are European in every sense of the word. I have many friends from these countries, actually one of my best friends is from Poland. So there's no lumping all in same category.
And let's take Russia's economic rocketing with a grain of salt. Let's be honest: Russia is still pretty much a one-commodity economy, a sort of banana republic, whose fortunes are bound to rise and fall together with the price of oil, in the same league as the likes of Saudi Arabia. There is a certain thinking that countries that derive their wealth from a cache of natural resources sooner or later tend to develop tyrannical and dictatorial forms of government, because it tends to stifle the motivation for real societal reforms. And Russia is definitively heading in that direction. Even under the most generous evaluation, Russia is far from modern, multi-faceted and stable economies like the US, EU or Japan and even in the group of fast-expanding BRICs economies (Brazil, Russia, India and China), Russia is the only one whose fortunes are not based on real economic reforms, but simply because of good luck. Luck is a tricky thing ... when it runs out, the hangover can be harsh.
«Name one war where one side was exclusively a victim and one side exclusively a perpetrator (except for the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide) and one had war criminals but not the other. »
You're right for the Jews, they were singled out and sent to the slaughterhouse. As for the Armenian, a genocide certainly happened but just as many Turks died. It is why the Turks refused to admit the fact.
In Bosnia, the ICTY declared that a genocide took place in Srebrenica and the perpetrators were the Serbs, and the Muslim Bosniaks were the victims. This is what History will maintain.
First of all , Draskovic is an inconsequential man ... he is right that Serbia is going in the wrong direction but not for the reasons he thinks . Serbia has been going the wrong direction since 1914 . In Serbia , I see a country that has too often turned her back on her own history . As an example , Kosovo . Here we see the gradual forced expulsion of all Serbs from their homeland. And Serbs and Serbia have had little strategy to deal with it . I would say many Serbs never gave a hoot . Milosevic was not a madman as some in the west say but he was not very clever either and lacked any diplomatic tact ... he just went face to face with NATO and then backed off just when it looked like he was winning ... anyway , now with 90% of the pop in Kosovo is Albanian , the best Serbia can hope for is partition ... THIS IS THE PLATFORM THAT MUST BE FORCED ... RUSSIA IS ON OUR SIDE ... NOW IS THE TIME . Serbia , do something right finally .
We need to take a couple of things into account here.
First, statements coming from Drašković are dubious at best. This is the man who first derided Milosevic and then sided with him against both DOS and Zajedno. This is a man who is pointing the finger at self-serving Serbian officials, but was, and still is, seen as a demagogue by the average Serbian citizen. His party, the SPO, did not take part in the 2000 DOS coalition, and was completely ousted from power in the previous parliamentary election. This is also the man who more than anyone else promoted the Ravna Gora movement in the early 1990s and set to redefine Serbian national identity along lines of exclusionary nationalism. So when he speaks of Serbia's democratic deficiency, one needs to ask if Drašković really is a democrat at heart.
Secondly, he does raise a number of points that, irregardless of who is saying them, are in some ways true. The 2000 democratic uprising unseated Milosevic, but did not dismantle much of the power apparatus that Milosevic set up. If anything, there are convincing arguments that Milosevic was overthrown because the criminal underworld withdrew their support (both financial and muscle) for the SPS after Arkan's assassination, and was promised by a few key DOS elites that their privileges and powers would not be altered if a change in government occurred. There is some validity to this, in that once Djindjic went after the underworld, he was assassinated.
So we need to take Drašković's comments with a grain of salt: there is still work to be done in Serbia, but Drašković is hardly considered the man to do it.
Draskovic should be aware that nothing at all would have even changed if the west did not come in and spend millions on opposition movements like DOS and Otpor. The fact remains that Serbs are orthodox slavic, and there is a limit to how many can be bought off to western values. Our future should be with Russia, not with those who bombed us, and who would bomb us again if they could.
To the pro-albanian people who commented on this... unemployment has nothing to do with anything in this topic. It is naturally going to be high no matter who is in power, thanks to the sanctions between 1992 and 1995, and thanks to the systematic bombing of civilian targets, like schools and hospitals, in 1999.
What disturbs me here is that Draskovic is speaking of extermination of all parts of the previous regime. If we look at that closely, what he is promoting is tyranny, and oppression. Nobody should be exterminated, not milosevic's people nor his people. And those who would side with milosevic are the radicals and socialists... which is at least 40% of the population.
Ratko, unlike you we are heading in a great direction. Even Albania is doing better than you. We will see who will become the dark hole in Europe in 10 years.
I'd recommend listening to what people are saying and de-throw these Tadic/koshtunica jokers and elect real leaders, people who care about people, not money and land.
Give it a rest, in open war there are no rules. Both sides do terrible things to each other. Name one war where one side was exclusively a victim and one side exclusively a perpetrator (except for the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide) and one had war criminals but not the other.
EA
I would prefer you not to use the term "Slav" in a negative light. Czech Republic and Slovenia are Slavic States with developed, high income economies (according to the World Bank) whose GDP per capita is 90% of that of the developed Western EU states (they have long since overtaken most of Southern Europe), Poland and Slovakia are behind them, but their economies are booming (high growth rates and low trade deficits) and Croatia and Bulgaria are on the same path as Slovenia, Czech Republic, then Poland and Slovakia before them, their economies are rolling forward.
I realize the painful history between Albanians and Serbs, but to lump all Slavs into the same category as Serbia and Russia (though mind you, Russia's economy is rocketing at the moment, three times as many exports as imports and almost 10% GDP growth) as being non-European or not "real European" tyrannic states is just incorrect.
Unless I misunderstood you, then forget what I wrote, hehe.
Ratko we know that in Kosovo flowers are not blooming, but we are talking here about Draskovic statement that Serbia is going toward abyss, Serbia is pretending to be functional democratic state so it is not in their interest to go toward east or toward putdown of democratic values.
Some political leaders from Serbia must be OPEN-EYED and not to ignore the will of the people.
«Vuk Drašković says that Serbia is going the wrong way as the Milošević regime was not fully eradicated after October 5, 2000.»
This is what I was writing last week. If Serbia is still in such a misery, with 20% of Serbs living under poverty line, it's becaue the men in power in Belgrade are of little difference with Milosevic.
During the war, what was Kostunica doing, and Tadic? I would be curious to know.
Give it a rest, in open war there are no rules. Both sides do terrible things to each other. Name one war where one side was exclusively a victim and one side exclusively a perpetrator (except for the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide) and one had war criminals but not the other.
EA
I would prefer you not to use the term "Slav" in a negative light. Czech Republic and Slovenia are Slavic States with developed, high income economies (according to the World Bank) whose GDP per capita is 90% of that of the developed Western EU states (they have long since overtaken most of Southern Europe), Poland and Slovakia are behind them, but their economies are booming (high growth rates and low trade deficits) and Croatia and Bulgaria are on the same path as Slovenia, Czech Republic, then Poland and Slovakia before them, their economies are rolling forward.
I realize the painful history between Albanians and Serbs, but to lump all Slavs into the same category as Serbia and Russia (though mind you, Russia's economy is rocketing at the moment, three times as many exports as imports and almost 10% GDP growth) as being non-European or not "real European" tyrannic states is just incorrect.
Unless I misunderstood you, then forget what I wrote, hehe.
Draskovic should be aware that nothing at all would have even changed if the west did not come in and spend millions on opposition movements like DOS and Otpor. The fact remains that Serbs are orthodox slavic, and there is a limit to how many can be bought off to western values. Our future should be with Russia, not with those who bombed us, and who would bomb us again if they could.
To the pro-albanian people who commented on this... unemployment has nothing to do with anything in this topic. It is naturally going to be high no matter who is in power, thanks to the sanctions between 1992 and 1995, and thanks to the systematic bombing of civilian targets, like schools and hospitals, in 1999.
What disturbs me here is that Draskovic is speaking of extermination of all parts of the previous regime. If we look at that closely, what he is promoting is tyranny, and oppression. Nobody should be exterminated, not milosevic's people nor his people. And those who would side with milosevic are the radicals and socialists... which is at least 40% of the population.
«Vuk Drašković says that Serbia is going the wrong way as the Milošević regime was not fully eradicated after October 5, 2000.»
This is what I was writing last week. If Serbia is still in such a misery, with 20% of Serbs living under poverty line, it's becaue the men in power in Belgrade are of little difference with Milosevic.
During the war, what was Kostunica doing, and Tadic? I would be curious to know.
First of all , Draskovic is an inconsequential man ... he is right that Serbia is going in the wrong direction but not for the reasons he thinks . Serbia has been going the wrong direction since 1914 . In Serbia , I see a country that has too often turned her back on her own history . As an example , Kosovo . Here we see the gradual forced expulsion of all Serbs from their homeland. And Serbs and Serbia have had little strategy to deal with it . I would say many Serbs never gave a hoot . Milosevic was not a madman as some in the west say but he was not very clever either and lacked any diplomatic tact ... he just went face to face with NATO and then backed off just when it looked like he was winning ... anyway , now with 90% of the pop in Kosovo is Albanian , the best Serbia can hope for is partition ... THIS IS THE PLATFORM THAT MUST BE FORCED ... RUSSIA IS ON OUR SIDE ... NOW IS THE TIME . Serbia , do something right finally .
«Name one war where one side was exclusively a victim and one side exclusively a perpetrator (except for the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide) and one had war criminals but not the other. »
You're right for the Jews, they were singled out and sent to the slaughterhouse. As for the Armenian, a genocide certainly happened but just as many Turks died. It is why the Turks refused to admit the fact.
In Bosnia, the ICTY declared that a genocide took place in Srebrenica and the perpetrators were the Serbs, and the Muslim Bosniaks were the victims. This is what History will maintain.
Ratko we know that in Kosovo flowers are not blooming, but we are talking here about Draskovic statement that Serbia is going toward abyss, Serbia is pretending to be functional democratic state so it is not in their interest to go toward east or toward putdown of democratic values.
Some political leaders from Serbia must be OPEN-EYED and not to ignore the will of the people.
We need to take a couple of things into account here.
First, statements coming from Drašković are dubious at best. This is the man who first derided Milosevic and then sided with him against both DOS and Zajedno. This is a man who is pointing the finger at self-serving Serbian officials, but was, and still is, seen as a demagogue by the average Serbian citizen. His party, the SPO, did not take part in the 2000 DOS coalition, and was completely ousted from power in the previous parliamentary election. This is also the man who more than anyone else promoted the Ravna Gora movement in the early 1990s and set to redefine Serbian national identity along lines of exclusionary nationalism. So when he speaks of Serbia's democratic deficiency, one needs to ask if Drašković really is a democrat at heart.
Secondly, he does raise a number of points that, irregardless of who is saying them, are in some ways true. The 2000 democratic uprising unseated Milosevic, but did not dismantle much of the power apparatus that Milosevic set up. If anything, there are convincing arguments that Milosevic was overthrown because the criminal underworld withdrew their support (both financial and muscle) for the SPS after Arkan's assassination, and was promised by a few key DOS elites that their privileges and powers would not be altered if a change in government occurred. There is some validity to this, in that once Djindjic went after the underworld, he was assassinated.
So we need to take Drašković's comments with a grain of salt: there is still work to be done in Serbia, but Drašković is hardly considered the man to do it.
Ratko, unlike you we are heading in a great direction. Even Albania is doing better than you. We will see who will become the dark hole in Europe in 10 years.
I'd recommend listening to what people are saying and de-throw these Tadic/koshtunica jokers and elect real leaders, people who care about people, not money and land.
Peter, there is a certain element of pan-slavism that has been persistently hostile to Albanians, not only in the last conflict but throughout the last 100 years of European history. Especially when mixed with pan-orthodoxy. But of course this is not a clear cut line. Greeks for example, although not slavic, can be trusted to be Albanian-haters together with the Serbs and the Russians. Of course Slavic is a much broader term, and includes as you say Poles and Czechs as well as Croatians, Bulgarians and Bosnians and many others that are European in every sense of the word. I have many friends from these countries, actually one of my best friends is from Poland. So there's no lumping all in same category.
And let's take Russia's economic rocketing with a grain of salt. Let's be honest: Russia is still pretty much a one-commodity economy, a sort of banana republic, whose fortunes are bound to rise and fall together with the price of oil, in the same league as the likes of Saudi Arabia. There is a certain thinking that countries that derive their wealth from a cache of natural resources sooner or later tend to develop tyrannical and dictatorial forms of government, because it tends to stifle the motivation for real societal reforms. And Russia is definitively heading in that direction. Even under the most generous evaluation, Russia is far from modern, multi-faceted and stable economies like the US, EU or Japan and even in the group of fast-expanding BRICs economies (Brazil, Russia, India and China), Russia is the only one whose fortunes are not based on real economic reforms, but simply because of good luck. Luck is a tricky thing ... when it runs out, the hangover can be harsh.
I am well aware of the Srebrenica massacre. The Bosniaks suffered a great deal, but on the other hand, Bosnia also had their fair share of war criminals. You heard of Naser Oric?
«Vuk Drašković says that Serbia is going the wrong way as the Milošević regime was not fully eradicated after October 5, 2000.»
This is what I was writing last week. If Serbia is still in such a misery, with 20% of Serbs living under poverty line, it's becaue the men in power in Belgrade are of little difference with Milosevic.
During the war, what was Kostunica doing, and Tadic? I would be curious to know.
«Name one war where one side was exclusively a victim and one side exclusively a perpetrator (except for the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide) and one had war criminals but not the other. »
You're right for the Jews, they were singled out and sent to the slaughterhouse. As for the Armenian, a genocide certainly happened but just as many Turks died. It is why the Turks refused to admit the fact.
In Bosnia, the ICTY declared that a genocide took place in Srebrenica and the perpetrators were the Serbs, and the Muslim Bosniaks were the victims. This is what History will maintain.
Ratko we know that in Kosovo flowers are not blooming, but we are talking here about Draskovic statement that Serbia is going toward abyss, Serbia is pretending to be functional democratic state so it is not in their interest to go toward east or toward putdown of democratic values.
Some political leaders from Serbia must be OPEN-EYED and not to ignore the will of the people.
Ratko, unlike you we are heading in a great direction. Even Albania is doing better than you. We will see who will become the dark hole in Europe in 10 years.
I'd recommend listening to what people are saying and de-throw these Tadic/koshtunica jokers and elect real leaders, people who care about people, not money and land.
I am well aware of the Srebrenica massacre. The Bosniaks suffered a great deal, but on the other hand, Bosnia also had their fair share of war criminals. You heard of Naser Oric?
First of all , Draskovic is an inconsequential man ... he is right that Serbia is going in the wrong direction but not for the reasons he thinks . Serbia has been going the wrong direction since 1914 . In Serbia , I see a country that has too often turned her back on her own history . As an example , Kosovo . Here we see the gradual forced expulsion of all Serbs from their homeland. And Serbs and Serbia have had little strategy to deal with it . I would say many Serbs never gave a hoot . Milosevic was not a madman as some in the west say but he was not very clever either and lacked any diplomatic tact ... he just went face to face with NATO and then backed off just when it looked like he was winning ... anyway , now with 90% of the pop in Kosovo is Albanian , the best Serbia can hope for is partition ... THIS IS THE PLATFORM THAT MUST BE FORCED ... RUSSIA IS ON OUR SIDE ... NOW IS THE TIME . Serbia , do something right finally .
Give it a rest, in open war there are no rules. Both sides do terrible things to each other. Name one war where one side was exclusively a victim and one side exclusively a perpetrator (except for the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide) and one had war criminals but not the other.
EA
I would prefer you not to use the term "Slav" in a negative light. Czech Republic and Slovenia are Slavic States with developed, high income economies (according to the World Bank) whose GDP per capita is 90% of that of the developed Western EU states (they have long since overtaken most of Southern Europe), Poland and Slovakia are behind them, but their economies are booming (high growth rates and low trade deficits) and Croatia and Bulgaria are on the same path as Slovenia, Czech Republic, then Poland and Slovakia before them, their economies are rolling forward.
I realize the painful history between Albanians and Serbs, but to lump all Slavs into the same category as Serbia and Russia (though mind you, Russia's economy is rocketing at the moment, three times as many exports as imports and almost 10% GDP growth) as being non-European or not "real European" tyrannic states is just incorrect.
Unless I misunderstood you, then forget what I wrote, hehe.
Draskovic should be aware that nothing at all would have even changed if the west did not come in and spend millions on opposition movements like DOS and Otpor. The fact remains that Serbs are orthodox slavic, and there is a limit to how many can be bought off to western values. Our future should be with Russia, not with those who bombed us, and who would bomb us again if they could.
To the pro-albanian people who commented on this... unemployment has nothing to do with anything in this topic. It is naturally going to be high no matter who is in power, thanks to the sanctions between 1992 and 1995, and thanks to the systematic bombing of civilian targets, like schools and hospitals, in 1999.
What disturbs me here is that Draskovic is speaking of extermination of all parts of the previous regime. If we look at that closely, what he is promoting is tyranny, and oppression. Nobody should be exterminated, not milosevic's people nor his people. And those who would side with milosevic are the radicals and socialists... which is at least 40% of the population.
We need to take a couple of things into account here.
First, statements coming from Drašković are dubious at best. This is the man who first derided Milosevic and then sided with him against both DOS and Zajedno. This is a man who is pointing the finger at self-serving Serbian officials, but was, and still is, seen as a demagogue by the average Serbian citizen. His party, the SPO, did not take part in the 2000 DOS coalition, and was completely ousted from power in the previous parliamentary election. This is also the man who more than anyone else promoted the Ravna Gora movement in the early 1990s and set to redefine Serbian national identity along lines of exclusionary nationalism. So when he speaks of Serbia's democratic deficiency, one needs to ask if Drašković really is a democrat at heart.
Secondly, he does raise a number of points that, irregardless of who is saying them, are in some ways true. The 2000 democratic uprising unseated Milosevic, but did not dismantle much of the power apparatus that Milosevic set up. If anything, there are convincing arguments that Milosevic was overthrown because the criminal underworld withdrew their support (both financial and muscle) for the SPS after Arkan's assassination, and was promised by a few key DOS elites that their privileges and powers would not be altered if a change in government occurred. There is some validity to this, in that once Djindjic went after the underworld, he was assassinated.
So we need to take Drašković's comments with a grain of salt: there is still work to be done in Serbia, but Drašković is hardly considered the man to do it.
Peter, there is a certain element of pan-slavism that has been persistently hostile to Albanians, not only in the last conflict but throughout the last 100 years of European history. Especially when mixed with pan-orthodoxy. But of course this is not a clear cut line. Greeks for example, although not slavic, can be trusted to be Albanian-haters together with the Serbs and the Russians. Of course Slavic is a much broader term, and includes as you say Poles and Czechs as well as Croatians, Bulgarians and Bosnians and many others that are European in every sense of the word. I have many friends from these countries, actually one of my best friends is from Poland. So there's no lumping all in same category.
And let's take Russia's economic rocketing with a grain of salt. Let's be honest: Russia is still pretty much a one-commodity economy, a sort of banana republic, whose fortunes are bound to rise and fall together with the price of oil, in the same league as the likes of Saudi Arabia. There is a certain thinking that countries that derive their wealth from a cache of natural resources sooner or later tend to develop tyrannical and dictatorial forms of government, because it tends to stifle the motivation for real societal reforms. And Russia is definitively heading in that direction. Even under the most generous evaluation, Russia is far from modern, multi-faceted and stable economies like the US, EU or Japan and even in the group of fast-expanding BRICs economies (Brazil, Russia, India and China), Russia is the only one whose fortunes are not based on real economic reforms, but simply because of good luck. Luck is a tricky thing ... when it runs out, the hangover can be harsh.
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