RS preparing response to Lajčak move

Do you really want to redo present-day political arrengements on the basis of how things (allegedly) were in the 1300s?

Consider: in the 1300s, the country of Lithuania extended from the Baltic all the way to the shore of the Black Sea. The Anjou kings of Hungary ruled Naples and southern Italy. The country of Italy did not exist. Car Dusan ruled over Macedonia and much of what is now Greece, but he did not control Belgrade. Should we move back the clock and aii the boundaries by 700 years?

Making political claims for today on the basis of real or supposed ancient history is dangerous nonsense. Whose blood do you want to spill and whose house do you want to take away, in the sacred name of "Paganinia" (or to defend the boundaries of Turbofolkistan)?

In the modern age, human rights -- including people's right to self-determination -- belong in the first place to the living. Whatever happened (or did not happen) many centuries or millennia ago is of purely academic interest. It gives no one any right to make claims concerning the present.

Dodik says he and his party wants to “defend democracy”, but what they are doing are quite the opposite — they want to continue the system where Bosnian orthodox (“serbs”) politicians, though a minority, has full veto power decision in Bosnia.

There is just one Bosnian naion, and the orthodox and catholic Bosnians shoiuld bear that in mind.

The dream of the politicians of “republika srpska” is to tear Bosnia apart and join Serbia but sorry, this will never happen because, as the same way that happens in Kosovo, there is nor Serbian or Russian troops in Bosnia, but ther is American, British and German soldiers and a Ineternational Envoy ready to react to the plights of religious fundamentalist separatists.

Dodik talks of good faith in Srpska entity and it being the cheated party. That is laughable to the point of tears for the 590,000 how are still ethnically cleansed from Srpska and for the normal sane people of the world. The horrible deaths of 10s of thousands victims of Srpska with Serbia and the thousands still missing. Still turning up in mass graves in Srpska. He says Srpska is coned ya Srpska is a con and a shame on the world. It should be abolished.

bosnia isn´t a nation, and it will end up where it belongs: in the dustbin of history!

hopefully this was finally the endpoint of an experience!

Those who speak of one Bosnian nation should look into their hisotry books. Bosnia as a state rose in the late Middle Ages and has its core between the Drina to the East- Vrbas to the West-Sava to the North-and up to Hercegovina at the South. That territory is around 40% of today's state. The majority of Hercegovina and parts of Podrinje were part of various Serbian states called Raska, Zeta, Paganinia, Zahumlje, and Tranuvia up until these regions were conquored by Bosnian kings in the 1300s. Westen Hercegovina up along to Bihac and much of the Northern region were part of Croatia- they were not even Bosnian Catholics or even Bogomils. This 13th century expansion onto Croatian and Serbian lands was reenforced by the Ottomans and Islamicization into new regions- but even today, that Central and Eastern Core is where actual Bosnians come from. The other regions are 100% Serb or Croat by history.

gorilla dude, the orthodox and catholic in BiH have for hundreds of years been called Serbs or Croats, and you are not going to tell them what they will be called. In all the population censuses and in the CIA world factbook it says so. What you are trying to spread is some dumb bosniak nationalist theories that are in fact like saying, Norwegians are not Norwegian, they're Scandinavian.

You even dare to speak about democracy, when Izbegovic, the muslim criminal from BiH came to power by annulling elections in which he lost. Dayton was signed, and dayton remains, and by that agreement Republika Srpska stays and BiH is a colony of the West.

The Muslims tended to live in the cities and thus were more concentrated, while Serbs were more often crop and/or cattle and livestock farmers. Thus they owned and lived on larger land areas but were more sparsely populated.

Today Sarajevo is over 90-95% Muslim, even though pre-war it was over 30% Serbian.

The Muslims got most of the largest cities and many Serbs got thrown to the barren hills.

Bosnia was a land and population swap of people who hated each other so much they can't stand to live together. None of the 3 major groups trusts or wants to live under the rule of the others.

Each should concentrate on themselves and the part they control and make it into a place that suits them without the other group/s whining and trying to sabotage everything.

The Muslims have an essentially pure Sarajevo, Zenica, Tuzla and so many other places. They should be satisfied and if they aren't it's their own selves to blame at this point. They've received several billions in foreign aid and have had beneficial and special trade agreements. Meanwhile the RS is under sanctions, NATO/SFOR oppression, anti-Serb propaganda, no real aid, etc. but it is turning out to be less corrupt and a more and more appealing place for investments.

Shows that the Serbs do better without the Muslims hindering them.

“The University of Belgrade published two such maps for '81 and '91, and national geographic published one for '91. The result is obvious, that the Serbs were the majority on MOST of the land in BiH, and were the biggest ethnic group there until the 1970s.”

It really doesn’t matter if the majority of the Bosnian population were orthodox until the 1970’s, or if the Kosovo had Serbian majority in the Middle Ages… The fact is that by 1991/1992, the majority of Bosnians were muslim or catholic, and more than 80% of Kosovars were Albanian-speakers.

“BiH breaking off was totally unconstitutional and illegal.”

No way. The constituent republics of former Socialist Federal Repulic of Yugoslavia had the right to secede, and more than 60% of Bosnians participated in the referendum that decided for the independence of Bosnia in 1992. And Bosnia and Croatia were legally fully recognized by practically all Europe (and the most powerful countries — Germany, UK, France and the United States) and got their UN seats in 1991 and 1992 — differently from rump Milosevic’s Yugoslavia and the rogue mini-states of “republika srpska” or “republic of serbian krajina”.

“BiH furthermore did not exist in the interwar period, like in say the 1930s.”

But by the time of the ill-fated King Alexander’s “banovinas” (1929-1941), there was no Serbia in Yugoslavia, too — the current Serbian territory was divided between the Danube, Morava, Drina, Vardar and Zeta banovinas. And during most of the 20th century, Bosnia was most of the time a consolidated unitary administrative division.

“Also, entities change, keep that in mind.”

The Milosevic’s regime (“based” on the memorandum of the stupid orthodox fanatics of SANU) “changing of entities” was based on genocide and mass expulsions was completely irregular, not recognized by the 1974 Yugoslav Constitution (which granted autonomy and right to secede for administrative divisions, not religious groups) not recognized by ANY serious international Western organization — and the Badinter Arbitration Committee decision shows it very well.

“Bosnia is not a normal nation. It is an artificial creation, in which more than 50% of the people do not want to be part of.”

As I said above, if it were true most of the Bosnian people wouldn’t vote for the independence of Bosnia from Yugoslavia back in 1992. And even today, the majority of the population of all Bosnia wants an independent, unified Bosnian nation-sate. And I think even most of the orthodox Bosnians would be (like Jovan Divjak) in favor of Bosnian nation, if they weren’t brainwashed by fear-mongering politicians, turbofolkish TV stations and machine-gun-bearing serbian orthodox priests and bishops…

“Bosnia was a land and population swap of people who hated each other so much they can't stand to live together. None of the 3 major groups trusts or wants to live under the rule of the others.”

This is a LIE.

Up until 1992, excluding the religious fanatics and political opportunists, most of Bosnian people lived in peace and got very well with each other — and the most clear proof of this was that most of the people from different religions lived together in the same areas and even INTERMARRIED — muslims marrying catholics, catholics marrying orthodox, and so on.

The Lebanon-style religious division and genocide of Bosnian people was made by the Milosevic’s War Machine (most of the guns of Yugoslav Army was in Serbian hands) and their fanatical followers — and the miserable butchers Ratko Mladic, Zeliko Arkan, Radovan Karadzic and Vojislav Seselj. The Croatian dictator Franjo Tudjman also played a minor, but also shameful role in the Bosnian tragedy.

“Shows that the Serbs do better without the Muslims hindering them.”

Well, with a large influx of money from Belgrade, from the Serbian organized crime networks (one of the main profiters from Yugoslav Wars) and from the oil-and-gas-boosted Russian economy, it’s quite easy…

Gorilla dude, look at the ethnic composition of Bosnia before the war, and I mean look at one of the ethnic maps that go into more details beyond the municipality level. The University of Belgrade published two such maps for '81 and '91, and national geographic published one for '91. The result is obvious, that the Serbs were the majority on MOST of the land in BiH, and were the biggest ethnic group there until the 1970s. BiH breaking off was totally unconstitutional and illegal. BiH furthermore did not exist in the interwar period, like in say the 1930s. Therefore it is not an older entity than serbia. Also, entities change, keep that in mind.

Bosnia is not a normal nation. It is an artificial creation, in which more than 50% of the people do not want to be part of. Oh, and look into your population data... the Serbs are about 37% of the population nowadays, down from some 46% at a time.

Switzerland I believe is constituted of German and French peoples, and both peoples are sovereign so there is no overvoting on the side of majority in the parliament. This chance of sovereign people is not given to the Serbians living in Bosnia and Hercegovina and we will not accept it for the same reason Swiss peoples will not accept it.

And we should remember that:

01. Actually the “bosnian serb” politicians never defended the interests of Bosnian nation, but the interests of the orthodox clergy and the interests of nationalists in Belgrade;

02. The “bosnian serb” politicians control 49% of the territory, but govern less than one third of the Bosnian people; though, they until today have effective control of Bosnia due to the “compromise lock” that has been plaguing Bosnian politics since 1995;

03. From a true modern Western point of view, if you born in a place and speaks the language of the place, you are a national from the place. If you’re born in Bosnia and speaks Serbo-Croatian, you’re are a full BOSNIAN, and it doesn’t matter if you follow Muhammad, the Pope or the Patriarch.

And last but not least: in terms of recent history, Bosnia is much older territorial-governamental entity and country than Serbia itself. Bosnia in its current borders exists since 1878, and is an independent nation-state since 1992; Serbia, in its current borders, exists since 1945 and as a independent nation-state recognized as such by the international community just since 2006, when former Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro was dissolved.

Dodik says he and his party wants to “defend democracy”, but what they are doing are quite the opposite — they want to continue the system where Bosnian orthodox (“serbs”) politicians, though a minority, has full veto power decision in Bosnia.

There is just one Bosnian naion, and the orthodox and catholic Bosnians shoiuld bear that in mind.

The dream of the politicians of “republika srpska” is to tear Bosnia apart and join Serbia but sorry, this will never happen because, as the same way that happens in Kosovo, there is nor Serbian or Russian troops in Bosnia, but ther is American, British and German soldiers and a Ineternational Envoy ready to react to the plights of religious fundamentalist separatists.

Dodik talks of good faith in Srpska entity and it being the cheated party. That is laughable to the point of tears for the 590,000 how are still ethnically cleansed from Srpska and for the normal sane people of the world. The horrible deaths of 10s of thousands victims of Srpska with Serbia and the thousands still missing. Still turning up in mass graves in Srpska. He says Srpska is coned ya Srpska is a con and a shame on the world. It should be abolished.

Those who speak of one Bosnian nation should look into their hisotry books. Bosnia as a state rose in the late Middle Ages and has its core between the Drina to the East- Vrbas to the West-Sava to the North-and up to Hercegovina at the South. That territory is around 40% of today's state. The majority of Hercegovina and parts of Podrinje were part of various Serbian states called Raska, Zeta, Paganinia, Zahumlje, and Tranuvia up until these regions were conquored by Bosnian kings in the 1300s. Westen Hercegovina up along to Bihac and much of the Northern region were part of Croatia- they were not even Bosnian Catholics or even Bogomils. This 13th century expansion onto Croatian and Serbian lands was reenforced by the Ottomans and Islamicization into new regions- but even today, that Central and Eastern Core is where actual Bosnians come from. The other regions are 100% Serb or Croat by history.

gorilla dude, the orthodox and catholic in BiH have for hundreds of years been called Serbs or Croats, and you are not going to tell them what they will be called. In all the population censuses and in the CIA world factbook it says so. What you are trying to spread is some dumb bosniak nationalist theories that are in fact like saying, Norwegians are not Norwegian, they're Scandinavian.

You even dare to speak about democracy, when Izbegovic, the muslim criminal from BiH came to power by annulling elections in which he lost. Dayton was signed, and dayton remains, and by that agreement Republika Srpska stays and BiH is a colony of the West.

bosnia isn´t a nation, and it will end up where it belongs: in the dustbin of history!

hopefully this was finally the endpoint of an experience!

Switzerland I believe is constituted of German and French peoples, and both peoples are sovereign so there is no overvoting on the side of majority in the parliament. This chance of sovereign people is not given to the Serbians living in Bosnia and Hercegovina and we will not accept it for the same reason Swiss peoples will not accept it.

And we should remember that:

01. Actually the “bosnian serb” politicians never defended the interests of Bosnian nation, but the interests of the orthodox clergy and the interests of nationalists in Belgrade;

02. The “bosnian serb” politicians control 49% of the territory, but govern less than one third of the Bosnian people; though, they until today have effective control of Bosnia due to the “compromise lock” that has been plaguing Bosnian politics since 1995;

03. From a true modern Western point of view, if you born in a place and speaks the language of the place, you are a national from the place. If you’re born in Bosnia and speaks Serbo-Croatian, you’re are a full BOSNIAN, and it doesn’t matter if you follow Muhammad, the Pope or the Patriarch.

And last but not least: in terms of recent history, Bosnia is much older territorial-governamental entity and country than Serbia itself. Bosnia in its current borders exists since 1878, and is an independent nation-state since 1992; Serbia, in its current borders, exists since 1945 and as a independent nation-state recognized as such by the international community just since 2006, when former Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro was dissolved.

“The University of Belgrade published two such maps for '81 and '91, and national geographic published one for '91. The result is obvious, that the Serbs were the majority on MOST of the land in BiH, and were the biggest ethnic group there until the 1970s.”

It really doesn’t matter if the majority of the Bosnian population were orthodox until the 1970’s, or if the Kosovo had Serbian majority in the Middle Ages… The fact is that by 1991/1992, the majority of Bosnians were muslim or catholic, and more than 80% of Kosovars were Albanian-speakers.

“BiH breaking off was totally unconstitutional and illegal.”

No way. The constituent republics of former Socialist Federal Repulic of Yugoslavia had the right to secede, and more than 60% of Bosnians participated in the referendum that decided for the independence of Bosnia in 1992. And Bosnia and Croatia were legally fully recognized by practically all Europe (and the most powerful countries — Germany, UK, France and the United States) and got their UN seats in 1991 and 1992 — differently from rump Milosevic’s Yugoslavia and the rogue mini-states of “republika srpska” or “republic of serbian krajina”.

“BiH furthermore did not exist in the interwar period, like in say the 1930s.”

But by the time of the ill-fated King Alexander’s “banovinas” (1929-1941), there was no Serbia in Yugoslavia, too — the current Serbian territory was divided between the Danube, Morava, Drina, Vardar and Zeta banovinas. And during most of the 20th century, Bosnia was most of the time a consolidated unitary administrative division.

“Also, entities change, keep that in mind.”

The Milosevic’s regime (“based” on the memorandum of the stupid orthodox fanatics of SANU) “changing of entities” was based on genocide and mass expulsions was completely irregular, not recognized by the 1974 Yugoslav Constitution (which granted autonomy and right to secede for administrative divisions, not religious groups) not recognized by ANY serious international Western organization — and the Badinter Arbitration Committee decision shows it very well.

“Bosnia is not a normal nation. It is an artificial creation, in which more than 50% of the people do not want to be part of.”

As I said above, if it were true most of the Bosnian people wouldn’t vote for the independence of Bosnia from Yugoslavia back in 1992. And even today, the majority of the population of all Bosnia wants an independent, unified Bosnian nation-sate. And I think even most of the orthodox Bosnians would be (like Jovan Divjak) in favor of Bosnian nation, if they weren’t brainwashed by fear-mongering politicians, turbofolkish TV stations and machine-gun-bearing serbian orthodox priests and bishops…

“Bosnia was a land and population swap of people who hated each other so much they can't stand to live together. None of the 3 major groups trusts or wants to live under the rule of the others.”

This is a LIE.

Up until 1992, excluding the religious fanatics and political opportunists, most of Bosnian people lived in peace and got very well with each other — and the most clear proof of this was that most of the people from different religions lived together in the same areas and even INTERMARRIED — muslims marrying catholics, catholics marrying orthodox, and so on.

The Lebanon-style religious division and genocide of Bosnian people was made by the Milosevic’s War Machine (most of the guns of Yugoslav Army was in Serbian hands) and their fanatical followers — and the miserable butchers Ratko Mladic, Zeliko Arkan, Radovan Karadzic and Vojislav Seselj. The Croatian dictator Franjo Tudjman also played a minor, but also shameful role in the Bosnian tragedy.

“Shows that the Serbs do better without the Muslims hindering them.”

Well, with a large influx of money from Belgrade, from the Serbian organized crime networks (one of the main profiters from Yugoslav Wars) and from the oil-and-gas-boosted Russian economy, it’s quite easy…

Do you really want to redo present-day political arrengements on the basis of how things (allegedly) were in the 1300s?

Consider: in the 1300s, the country of Lithuania extended from the Baltic all the way to the shore of the Black Sea. The Anjou kings of Hungary ruled Naples and southern Italy. The country of Italy did not exist. Car Dusan ruled over Macedonia and much of what is now Greece, but he did not control Belgrade. Should we move back the clock and aii the boundaries by 700 years?

Making political claims for today on the basis of real or supposed ancient history is dangerous nonsense. Whose blood do you want to spill and whose house do you want to take away, in the sacred name of "Paganinia" (or to defend the boundaries of Turbofolkistan)?

In the modern age, human rights -- including people's right to self-determination -- belong in the first place to the living. Whatever happened (or did not happen) many centuries or millennia ago is of purely academic interest. It gives no one any right to make claims concerning the present.

Gorilla dude, look at the ethnic composition of Bosnia before the war, and I mean look at one of the ethnic maps that go into more details beyond the municipality level. The University of Belgrade published two such maps for '81 and '91, and national geographic published one for '91. The result is obvious, that the Serbs were the majority on MOST of the land in BiH, and were the biggest ethnic group there until the 1970s. BiH breaking off was totally unconstitutional and illegal. BiH furthermore did not exist in the interwar period, like in say the 1930s. Therefore it is not an older entity than serbia. Also, entities change, keep that in mind.

Bosnia is not a normal nation. It is an artificial creation, in which more than 50% of the people do not want to be part of. Oh, and look into your population data... the Serbs are about 37% of the population nowadays, down from some 46% at a time.

The Muslims tended to live in the cities and thus were more concentrated, while Serbs were more often crop and/or cattle and livestock farmers. Thus they owned and lived on larger land areas but were more sparsely populated.

Today Sarajevo is over 90-95% Muslim, even though pre-war it was over 30% Serbian.

The Muslims got most of the largest cities and many Serbs got thrown to the barren hills.

Bosnia was a land and population swap of people who hated each other so much they can't stand to live together. None of the 3 major groups trusts or wants to live under the rule of the others.

Each should concentrate on themselves and the part they control and make it into a place that suits them without the other group/s whining and trying to sabotage everything.

The Muslims have an essentially pure Sarajevo, Zenica, Tuzla and so many other places. They should be satisfied and if they aren't it's their own selves to blame at this point. They've received several billions in foreign aid and have had beneficial and special trade agreements. Meanwhile the RS is under sanctions, NATO/SFOR oppression, anti-Serb propaganda, no real aid, etc. but it is turning out to be less corrupt and a more and more appealing place for investments.

Shows that the Serbs do better without the Muslims hindering them.