Kosovo talks end, new meeting in Vienna

Is anyone here who doesn't know that outcome of these "talks"? Read my previous comment!

Interesting to counter the western media view with regards these talks

""There is quite a distance to be covered if really we want to reach an agreement," warned EU envoy Wolfgang Ischinger, ahead of a round of talks in Brussels on how much autonomy Kosovo should be granted."
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hmITRrrXb1tunwsZ-3RxWZ0oMHvA
- in comaprison to the mantra of Ceku who clearly has lost the plot with regards to what the West (AFP -being the French Press Agency) sees as "how much autonomy Kosovo should be granted."

Of course Ceku can suggest he would declare unilaterally but then he won't be PM on the 11th December given that he has submitted his resignation and will not stand in the elections.

I guess ceku will slowly get a little bit nervous...he´s still to face a trial for war-crimes.

but that will certainly take place after he resigns.

" "The chances that Russia will use its veto are growing more realistic. This is why Western countries are not too willing to test their chances at the UN Security Council," unidentified diplomats told Zeri.

Zeri said that Russia's veto would create major difficulties because it would prevent UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon from doing anything towards finalizing the UN Mission in Kosovo and replacing UNMIK with an EU mission."

And this is precisely why unilateral independence will not help matters and CANNOT be declared. Russia is not some unnecessary country causing troubles for Kosovo, it is one of the five UNSC members, and they are quite right in trying to get both sides to agree.

One can see that this is not the same situation as with the other former Yugoslav REPUBLICS (the key word here), hence the only way for stability is to come to a fair consensus for both entities. I know I am repeating myself and you are all sick of it, but I stand by this 100%.

Both parties need to start from scratch. Kosovo cannot assume that independence is a starting point and that "technical issues" will only be discussed and Serbia needs to understand that it has treated its minority wrong and would have to make drastic guarantees and changes in their policy towards this minority if they wish to maintain control over Kosovo.

If both sides stick to their positions like flies to I won't say what, they will not get anywhere and this will go on and on and on. For God's sake and in the interests of both peoples, sit down and reason with each other!

Oh my dear princip, you are absoluately right that Mr. Ceku will not be a PM on dec. 11 2007, but someone much better and stronger leader will be A PM of Kosova and tha is Mr. Thaqi. I am sure you agree with me on this one, right.
As for the talks we are offering serbia a Treaty of friendship so that we all can move along and prosper as good neighbors, don't you agree?

We are now entering a phase where economics starts to play a role. The sides must now make their cases regarding the economic future of Kosovo and the Balkans. What are the objective economic realities? Will Kosovo be more prosperous staying with Serbia or going it alone? Will a unilaterally declared independent Kosovo be economically viable, or will it be dependent on foreign aid (i. e. EU aid) for an indeterminate future? If this is perceived to be the case, I predict that the EU will not commit itself to Kosovo independence.

Ceku stated that the negotiating process had entered a phase where further progress was entirely dependent on the Serbian side. “It depends on their political readiness and intellectual bravery to accept the reality that there is no solution for Kosovo other than independence,” said Ceku.

That's not the feedback that comes from a leader that is looking for no further conflicts, nor is there any evident of diplomacy due to the fact of no accountability on Ceku's part. Another cowardice maneuver, particularly since he's "all washed up."

With the backing of our Russian counterpart, there is nothing that will hold up the validity of Russia using their Veto power in the UN - regardless of what any leader has to say - should it come down to that.

Kosovans want to be good neighbours with Serbia. Serbs want to be a familiy with the Kosovans.
Who is right and who is wrong??? I cant answer that. But a common sense is that it is better to be good neighbors than be a crazy familiy.

"A treaty of friendship", what baloney! Where was the Albanian friendship in 2004? The Kosovo team is all show - just actors playing out a role written by Washington. The only problem is, the EU is in charge now and, they want solutions - not silly little "Smoke the Peace Pipe" worthless words. Both sides must agree or, there will never be peace. The Eu, being smarter than DC, knows this.

when will this childish nonsense-comparisons stop?

it´s not about family, or race or religion... the one and only question that has to be answered is the legal one.

and since the US withdrew from the UNSC in regard to the Kosovo-issue...we all know that every other outcome will only be placebo.

of course, some will call it independence... but, every sound mind will know that independence is different...

Agim,

I'll take the Treaty of Friendship, but my money is on the more mature Veton Surroi. Thaci has too much of a - how shall I put it - paramilitary past. Never shake hands with the man that once shot at you.

Agim,

You are right. At this point the only possible thing that can reached is a treaty of friendship between Serbia an independent Kosova. The K-Serbs would greatly benefit from it.

Noel

"Honestly, I couldn't care less whether "you stand by what you say 100%" as you put it as your views are tremendously constricted and dull in contrast with the reality in the ground. similarely i couldn'tcare less of what Serbian nationalists in exile like Princip who claims to be British of Serbian heritage have to say in the matter. "

Thanks for sharing that with us.

"However I genuinely do care for the future of both Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo. Hopefully an agreement can be reached although the prospect is terribly slim. "

I also wish the best for these people, and what better way to have guaranteed stability than a mutual agreement? Is the world to just give up on it and declare one thing and hope the consequences won't be too harsh?

"I strongly believe that Kosovo should become independent as this is the only viable solution considering the occurrences over the past two decades."

I couldn't care less what you believe, as you put it, but seriously now, there are many peoples living under one state (Pridnestrovie in Moldova, Abkhazia in Georgia, South Ossetia in Georgia, Nagorno-Karabakh in Azerbaijan and even Kurdistan in Turkey), if Kosovo goes independent, so should these examples. I have nothing against if both sides agree, but in most cases it just leads to war again because one side gains and the others loses. This is what is meant by a precadent, who suffers the most: the average person.

Peter,

Honestly, I couldn't care less whether "you stand by what you say 100%" as you put it as your views are tremendously constricted and dull in contrast with the reality in the ground. similarely i couldn'tcare less of what Serbian nationalists in exile like Princip who claims to be British of Serbian heritage have to say in the matter.

However I genuinely do care for the future of both Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo. Hopefully an agreement can be reached although the prospect is terribly slim.

I strongly believe that Kosovo should become independent as this is the only viable solution considering the occurrences over the past two decades.

Serb Camp: "and since the US withdrew from the UNSC in regard to the Kosovo-issue...we all know that every other outcome will only be placebo."

That's your opinion so I won't bash on you for calling it a PLACEBO; but get your facts straight.

The plan involved more than America, it involved Germany, UK, and 90% other countries in Europe.

If Kosova becomes a placebo, a myth statehood nation than my opinion is that Serbia has become a placebo as well.

"The chances that Russia will use its veto are growing more realistic. This is why Western countries are not too willing to test their chances at the UN Security Council," unidentified diplomats told Zeri.


good ol' reliable pristina media with their unidentified top officials...

my dear KS, it´s a fact, ...it´s not only my opinion, it is simply a fact.

the issue was not going to make it through the UNSC, so they withdrew in order to prevent themselves from further damage by getting a russian veto.

what is happening now is only ...I would call it a masquerade... acting as if there would be an independence without the UN is like believing the earth is a disc... calming down the Albanians, I mean those on the streets.
that´s the reason for the rambo-phrases we can hear from the albanian "negotiators" - they are meant to calm down albanian sentiments, rather than to represent the factual situation.
no matter what those "negotiators" say publicly to caress albanian souls, they won´t declare anything if they do not have support for it, and I mean real support, not only the US.
that´s something many Albanians still have illusions about.

as for the talks taking place in Vienna soon, the troika as well as other internationals do know about the "Arigona Zogaj"-case and the many other Albanians who do not even think of living in Kosovo, ...they are keen on getting a chance to live in europe´s EU-countries...
so much for the propaganda-phrases brought up from the albanian side about how resolved the Albanians are to create an albanian state in the serbian province of KiM.

everything you say is crumbling apart... and that is being noticed internationally.

thats good of course, for Serbs and also for the Albanian, even if they do not realize it yet.

Oh my dear princip, you are absoluately right that Mr. Ceku will not be a PM on dec. 11 2007, but someone much better and stronger leader will be A PM of Kosova and tha is Mr. Thaqi. I am sure you agree with me on this one, right.
As for the talks we are offering serbia a Treaty of friendship so that we all can move along and prosper as good neighbors, don't you agree?

Is anyone here who doesn't know that outcome of these "talks"? Read my previous comment!

Agim,

You are right. At this point the only possible thing that can reached is a treaty of friendship between Serbia an independent Kosova. The K-Serbs would greatly benefit from it.

Kosovans want to be good neighbours with Serbia. Serbs want to be a familiy with the Kosovans.
Who is right and who is wrong??? I cant answer that. But a common sense is that it is better to be good neighbors than be a crazy familiy.

when will this childish nonsense-comparisons stop?

it´s not about family, or race or religion... the one and only question that has to be answered is the legal one.

and since the US withdrew from the UNSC in regard to the Kosovo-issue...we all know that every other outcome will only be placebo.

of course, some will call it independence... but, every sound mind will know that independence is different...

Interesting to counter the western media view with regards these talks

""There is quite a distance to be covered if really we want to reach an agreement," warned EU envoy Wolfgang Ischinger, ahead of a round of talks in Brussels on how much autonomy Kosovo should be granted."
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hmITRrrXb1tunwsZ-3RxWZ0oMHvA
- in comaprison to the mantra of Ceku who clearly has lost the plot with regards to what the West (AFP -being the French Press Agency) sees as "how much autonomy Kosovo should be granted."

Of course Ceku can suggest he would declare unilaterally but then he won't be PM on the 11th December given that he has submitted his resignation and will not stand in the elections.

I guess ceku will slowly get a little bit nervous...he´s still to face a trial for war-crimes.

but that will certainly take place after he resigns.

Peter,

Honestly, I couldn't care less whether "you stand by what you say 100%" as you put it as your views are tremendously constricted and dull in contrast with the reality in the ground. similarely i couldn'tcare less of what Serbian nationalists in exile like Princip who claims to be British of Serbian heritage have to say in the matter.

However I genuinely do care for the future of both Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo. Hopefully an agreement can be reached although the prospect is terribly slim.

I strongly believe that Kosovo should become independent as this is the only viable solution considering the occurrences over the past two decades.

" "The chances that Russia will use its veto are growing more realistic. This is why Western countries are not too willing to test their chances at the UN Security Council," unidentified diplomats told Zeri.

Zeri said that Russia's veto would create major difficulties because it would prevent UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon from doing anything towards finalizing the UN Mission in Kosovo and replacing UNMIK with an EU mission."

And this is precisely why unilateral independence will not help matters and CANNOT be declared. Russia is not some unnecessary country causing troubles for Kosovo, it is one of the five UNSC members, and they are quite right in trying to get both sides to agree.

One can see that this is not the same situation as with the other former Yugoslav REPUBLICS (the key word here), hence the only way for stability is to come to a fair consensus for both entities. I know I am repeating myself and you are all sick of it, but I stand by this 100%.

Both parties need to start from scratch. Kosovo cannot assume that independence is a starting point and that "technical issues" will only be discussed and Serbia needs to understand that it has treated its minority wrong and would have to make drastic guarantees and changes in their policy towards this minority if they wish to maintain control over Kosovo.

If both sides stick to their positions like flies to I won't say what, they will not get anywhere and this will go on and on and on. For God's sake and in the interests of both peoples, sit down and reason with each other!

Ceku stated that the negotiating process had entered a phase where further progress was entirely dependent on the Serbian side. “It depends on their political readiness and intellectual bravery to accept the reality that there is no solution for Kosovo other than independence,” said Ceku.

That's not the feedback that comes from a leader that is looking for no further conflicts, nor is there any evident of diplomacy due to the fact of no accountability on Ceku's part. Another cowardice maneuver, particularly since he's "all washed up."

With the backing of our Russian counterpart, there is nothing that will hold up the validity of Russia using their Veto power in the UN - regardless of what any leader has to say - should it come down to that.

Agim,

I'll take the Treaty of Friendship, but my money is on the more mature Veton Surroi. Thaci has too much of a - how shall I put it - paramilitary past. Never shake hands with the man that once shot at you.

We are now entering a phase where economics starts to play a role. The sides must now make their cases regarding the economic future of Kosovo and the Balkans. What are the objective economic realities? Will Kosovo be more prosperous staying with Serbia or going it alone? Will a unilaterally declared independent Kosovo be economically viable, or will it be dependent on foreign aid (i. e. EU aid) for an indeterminate future? If this is perceived to be the case, I predict that the EU will not commit itself to Kosovo independence.

"A treaty of friendship", what baloney! Where was the Albanian friendship in 2004? The Kosovo team is all show - just actors playing out a role written by Washington. The only problem is, the EU is in charge now and, they want solutions - not silly little "Smoke the Peace Pipe" worthless words. Both sides must agree or, there will never be peace. The Eu, being smarter than DC, knows this.

Serb Camp: "and since the US withdrew from the UNSC in regard to the Kosovo-issue...we all know that every other outcome will only be placebo."

That's your opinion so I won't bash on you for calling it a PLACEBO; but get your facts straight.

The plan involved more than America, it involved Germany, UK, and 90% other countries in Europe.

If Kosova becomes a placebo, a myth statehood nation than my opinion is that Serbia has become a placebo as well.

"The chances that Russia will use its veto are growing more realistic. This is why Western countries are not too willing to test their chances at the UN Security Council," unidentified diplomats told Zeri.


good ol' reliable pristina media with their unidentified top officials...

Noel

"Honestly, I couldn't care less whether "you stand by what you say 100%" as you put it as your views are tremendously constricted and dull in contrast with the reality in the ground. similarely i couldn'tcare less of what Serbian nationalists in exile like Princip who claims to be British of Serbian heritage have to say in the matter. "

Thanks for sharing that with us.

"However I genuinely do care for the future of both Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo. Hopefully an agreement can be reached although the prospect is terribly slim. "

I also wish the best for these people, and what better way to have guaranteed stability than a mutual agreement? Is the world to just give up on it and declare one thing and hope the consequences won't be too harsh?

"I strongly believe that Kosovo should become independent as this is the only viable solution considering the occurrences over the past two decades."

I couldn't care less what you believe, as you put it, but seriously now, there are many peoples living under one state (Pridnestrovie in Moldova, Abkhazia in Georgia, South Ossetia in Georgia, Nagorno-Karabakh in Azerbaijan and even Kurdistan in Turkey), if Kosovo goes independent, so should these examples. I have nothing against if both sides agree, but in most cases it just leads to war again because one side gains and the others loses. This is what is meant by a precadent, who suffers the most: the average person.

my dear KS, it´s a fact, ...it´s not only my opinion, it is simply a fact.

the issue was not going to make it through the UNSC, so they withdrew in order to prevent themselves from further damage by getting a russian veto.

what is happening now is only ...I would call it a masquerade... acting as if there would be an independence without the UN is like believing the earth is a disc... calming down the Albanians, I mean those on the streets.
that´s the reason for the rambo-phrases we can hear from the albanian "negotiators" - they are meant to calm down albanian sentiments, rather than to represent the factual situation.
no matter what those "negotiators" say publicly to caress albanian souls, they won´t declare anything if they do not have support for it, and I mean real support, not only the US.
that´s something many Albanians still have illusions about.

as for the talks taking place in Vienna soon, the troika as well as other internationals do know about the "Arigona Zogaj"-case and the many other Albanians who do not even think of living in Kosovo, ...they are keen on getting a chance to live in europe´s EU-countries...
so much for the propaganda-phrases brought up from the albanian side about how resolved the Albanians are to create an albanian state in the serbian province of KiM.

everything you say is crumbling apart... and that is being noticed internationally.

thats good of course, for Serbs and also for the Albanian, even if they do not realize it yet.