UN SC holds closed-door Kosovo meeting

"even if it means physically regaining control", said Kate.
This clearly means to use military force even if it means killing and burning as long as Serbia gains control of the land, right.
Well Kate, I thought that you are for peace and not a warmonger. But thanks to your coment becasue you trully showed your other side.

"The UN secretary-general also warned about the vandalism aimed against cultural and historic monuments, the resurfacing of a group UN designates as terrorist, the Albanian National army (ANA, AKSh), and the small number of Serb returnees to the province."

How could any of this be solved by granting independence? All this warning emphasises is the need not to give in to violence and the fact that the UN has not fulfilled Resolution 1244.

How can they hand this over to the EU in such a state? And certainly, how could anyone support independence on such a problem ridden province.

Who's going to support the people of Kosovo? Where will the money come from?

It won't work. All of this has to be assessed with Serbia and the provincial government, and even if it means physically regaining control, serious work needs to start towards agreed elements of 1244.

As I have said all along, this is not just about Kosovo, but the wider implications across Europe.

I completely agree with Kate on this one. She never used the violent language that Agim mentioned, all she said was that Serbia needed to take control, which she does. Every other country in the world would do as such. Look at how Spain is angrily reacting to the aspirations of the violent Basque movement. I'm sorry to remind you Agim, Elton, Isufi, Nikshala, et al, but you guys and your revered KLA are the ones that started the murders, harrassments, and expulsions. It's a good thing for you that the western media has painted the Albanians as peace loving Nobel Prize laureates.

1244 is dead

UNSC has no obligation to recognize the demands of people who are threatening with violence. A common analogy used by the police is "we do not negotiate with terrorists".

A few countries recognizing Kosovo as independent will not be doing them much of a favour, because without UNSC endorsement, Kosovo cannot joint the UN and its borders will not be recognized, meaning that it will also not be allowed into the EU, because one of the Copenhagen Criteria are that EU memberships as defined by UNSCR1244. Even if they try to bend that rule, it is enough that those EU states that said that they will not recognize Kosovo's independence vote against membership of Kosovo.

Let's face it, it is not legal to allow Kosovo to be independent. The law is a law!

The money will come from the wonderful countries that will recognize independence, and that money will help enforcing the Ahtisaari guidelines.

In the current state with Kosovo rejecting Serbia, none of that can be done, and it is only going to get worse.

Russia keeps saying to you there will be no independence so get used to the idea. Independence has become a myth now and thats the way it will stay. No amount of terrorism can change that.

CCCC

Agim: ""even if it means physically regaining control", said Kate.
This clearly means to use military force even if it means killing and burning as long as Serbia gains control of the land, right."

Actually I was talking about physical control by the international troops if there is a need to react to the violence, which at the moment is only threatened.

But ultimately in years to come of course Serbia will be involved in the security of the province. I am sure that you know I'm not talking about burning or killing.

Funcakes: "The money will come from the wonderful countries that will recognize independence, and that money will help enforcing the Ahtisaari guidelines."

That is a great idea of independence you have there, Funcakes. Similar to a teenager's.

Actually, you are talking about my own taxes and I certainly don't condone paying to create an independent Kosovo.

"Peter since when do the Copenhagen criteria on EU membership have anything to do with 1244? "

Because the European Commission states explicitly that EU membership for Kosovo is only possible as a part of Serbia as per UNSCR1244. I made a mistake by typing Copenhagen Criteria, I was meant to type European Commission, the Copenhagen Criteria I used in another argument (Serbia would have to adhere to the principles).

"If all Poles are as good at understanding the various criteria of the EU as you are that would explain a lot about Poland making itself a nuisance in the EU."

How is Poland making a nuisance of itself in the EU? At least we are in it, I doubt an "independent" Kosovo will make it there in the next 20 years, but anyway, it is Kosovo being a nuisance by forcing the world to break international law because some of the people are disgruntled and think a little too much of themselves for how much their "state" is worth!

"1244 is dead"

That's the only law that would make you a recognized, independent state like anyone else. The only reason the US are bypassing it is because they fear losing face after the silly promises they made, not because they care about Kosovo so much. A vast majority couldn't give a flying money about Kosovo, let alone know where it is!

"The money will come from the wonderful countries that will recognize independence, and that money will help enforcing the Ahtisaari guidelines. "

Since you advocate Kosovo independence so much and claim it should be able to do fine by itself, why the EU and US money?

"It is really immature to think than leaving Kosova under Serbia against the will of it’s people will bring peace to the region."

Yet it is mature to break international law by taking away a part of a sovereign and recognized state of the UN against its will because of a few disgruntled people?

"Serbia and Russia are playing with the stability of the region and I think that they should be stopped in order to have prosperous region."

Right, and the US and "Kosova" are not playing with the stability of the region?

It's about time that the UN sees whats going on in Kosovo at the Serbs expence. And now the terrorist group of the ANA has emerged. As long as they are in the valley, the Serbs (VS) will handle them. The only reason the US supports the Greater albanian cause is because of rent free camp Bondsteel.

This is a nice way to say to albanians in Kosovo that crimes do not always pay.

Kate

Let me guess, leaving Kosovo within Serbia, will solve all those problems???

We all saw how could Serbia was at solving problems like this in 1999.

EU has to be very careful at what it does.

While the last thing I want and anybody in Kosovo wants, is another war! Having gone through that once, I certainly do not want to go through that again. But facts are facts, and no resolution or 'Miss World' statements from Kate, will change the fact that if Kosovo does not get independence another war is very likely to happen. Thats not a threat or blackmail, it is just stating the obvisous and reality.

You cannot force 2 million people to be part of a country they do not want to be!

While 99% of K.albanians do not support AKSH / ANA now, should independence be delayed, their popularity will grow. Thats why international comuunity has to be careful. It reminds me of 1997 or 1998 when KLA appeared on the scene, and most K. aLbanains thought it was just some small gang or serb secret service. Nobody supported them initially - but then following the all familair crackdown by Serbia (something that Kate seems to support again), their popualrity grew within days to the point where all K.albanians supported it.

It is expected by UN SG to allow replacement of UNMIK with EU mission to Kosovo not in Kosovo. On the other hand Russia, Serbia and Kosova are under constant pressure to find solution or accept Ahtisaari plan with the 1244 being mentioned. Once this is agreed by Russia than new resolution will be passed in UN and EU will come in Kosova. This would be another way for Kosova to gain full independence after the supervised phase.

Mentioning of ANA and many other things like Tzar Lazar etc is to tell the UN nations that there is a need for a solution if you want to bring something to light. Otherwise, people can find their own solution and the world could be in a worst/better position that it is now, not to mention Serbs and Albanians as nations. It is really immature to think than leaving Kosova under Serbia against the will of it’s people will bring peace to the region. Serbia and Russia are playing with the stability of the region and I think that they should be stopped in order to have prosperous region. Some of you forgot that K-Albanians are not alone in this one, they are backed by Albania, Albanians in Macedonia, Preshevo, Bujanoc, and Medvegja.

However let us pray for a peaceful settlement of Kosova status for the sake of the people of Kosova.

Kate: "But ultimately in years to come of course Serbia will be involved in the security of the province. I am sure that you know I'm not talking about burning or killing. "

If you mention any Serbia's role in securing the province then that's precisely what you are talking about; burning and killing.

Kate: "Actually, you are talking about my own taxes and I certainly don't condone paying to create an independent Kosovo."

Otherwise you will pay taxes to start another war against Serbia, just like in the 90's, and that is much more expensive.

KS,

1244 is dead? Really? Why there is no new UNSC resolution then.

Don't fool yourself: 1244 is still there. We all know the deal was autonomy. Serbs should not complain now. As they signed in 1999. Same for Albanians!

Get a life, welcome in Europe. Maybe take a look at a country in Holland where differen peoples DO live together!

The status issue should not be allowed to go back again on UN or SC platform. Despite good intentions of e great deal of countries the mechanism is well known for its bias towards veto holding powers.
There more ways than one to skin a cat and I’m sure that real progress is being made on final arrangements. My money is still on the 28th of November.

Peter since when do the Copenhagen criteria on EU membership have anything to do with 1244?
If all Poles are as good at understanding the various criteria of the EU as you are that would explain a lot about Poland making itself a nuisance in the EU.
And Kate: I have tried several times to tell you that you are living in a dreamworld as far as Kosova is concerned. May you enjoy it while it lasts and it won't be for long! But you can forget about Kosova ever becoming a part of Serbia. That's in the past and the chances of that happening are even less than the chances of you being unbiased.

Ron, dutch people were not killing, raping or massacring other ethnic groups in Holland...
remebere srebrenica??it was hollanders that were (supossly )protecting the poor civlian...we will be part of serbia when crotia,b&h,slovenia,macedonia and monte negro are back under serbia.. their own people ( south slavs)dont want to live together and than the millon dollar question is WHY SHOULD WE wellcome to balkans> .and by the way how come holland does not want to become part of Germany..?? sorry for misspelling

Nikshala, Kate was talking of the IC troops taking control of the situation there, as even the UN sees that it's not looking good over there (human rights for non albanians). But like you & most of the 2 million albanians in Kosovo threaten war if you/they dont get independence. As for the ana, sounds like you are a sympathiser of this terrorist group. CCCC

"The UN secretary-general also warned about the vandalism aimed against cultural and historic monuments, the resurfacing of a group UN designates as terrorist, the Albanian National army (ANA, AKSh), and the small number of Serb returnees to the province."

How could any of this be solved by granting independence? All this warning emphasises is the need not to give in to violence and the fact that the UN has not fulfilled Resolution 1244.

How can they hand this over to the EU in such a state? And certainly, how could anyone support independence on such a problem ridden province.

Who's going to support the people of Kosovo? Where will the money come from?

It won't work. All of this has to be assessed with Serbia and the provincial government, and even if it means physically regaining control, serious work needs to start towards agreed elements of 1244.

As I have said all along, this is not just about Kosovo, but the wider implications across Europe.

"even if it means physically regaining control", said Kate.
This clearly means to use military force even if it means killing and burning as long as Serbia gains control of the land, right.
Well Kate, I thought that you are for peace and not a warmonger. But thanks to your coment becasue you trully showed your other side.

The status issue should not be allowed to go back again on UN or SC platform. Despite good intentions of e great deal of countries the mechanism is well known for its bias towards veto holding powers.
There more ways than one to skin a cat and I’m sure that real progress is being made on final arrangements. My money is still on the 28th of November.

The money will come from the wonderful countries that will recognize independence, and that money will help enforcing the Ahtisaari guidelines.

In the current state with Kosovo rejecting Serbia, none of that can be done, and it is only going to get worse.

Kate

Let me guess, leaving Kosovo within Serbia, will solve all those problems???

We all saw how could Serbia was at solving problems like this in 1999.

EU has to be very careful at what it does.

While the last thing I want and anybody in Kosovo wants, is another war! Having gone through that once, I certainly do not want to go through that again. But facts are facts, and no resolution or 'Miss World' statements from Kate, will change the fact that if Kosovo does not get independence another war is very likely to happen. Thats not a threat or blackmail, it is just stating the obvisous and reality.

You cannot force 2 million people to be part of a country they do not want to be!

While 99% of K.albanians do not support AKSH / ANA now, should independence be delayed, their popularity will grow. Thats why international comuunity has to be careful. It reminds me of 1997 or 1998 when KLA appeared on the scene, and most K. aLbanains thought it was just some small gang or serb secret service. Nobody supported them initially - but then following the all familair crackdown by Serbia (something that Kate seems to support again), their popualrity grew within days to the point where all K.albanians supported it.

UNSC has no obligation to recognize the demands of people who are threatening with violence. A common analogy used by the police is "we do not negotiate with terrorists".

A few countries recognizing Kosovo as independent will not be doing them much of a favour, because without UNSC endorsement, Kosovo cannot joint the UN and its borders will not be recognized, meaning that it will also not be allowed into the EU, because one of the Copenhagen Criteria are that EU memberships as defined by UNSCR1244. Even if they try to bend that rule, it is enough that those EU states that said that they will not recognize Kosovo's independence vote against membership of Kosovo.

Let's face it, it is not legal to allow Kosovo to be independent. The law is a law!

It is expected by UN SG to allow replacement of UNMIK with EU mission to Kosovo not in Kosovo. On the other hand Russia, Serbia and Kosova are under constant pressure to find solution or accept Ahtisaari plan with the 1244 being mentioned. Once this is agreed by Russia than new resolution will be passed in UN and EU will come in Kosova. This would be another way for Kosova to gain full independence after the supervised phase.

Mentioning of ANA and many other things like Tzar Lazar etc is to tell the UN nations that there is a need for a solution if you want to bring something to light. Otherwise, people can find their own solution and the world could be in a worst/better position that it is now, not to mention Serbs and Albanians as nations. It is really immature to think than leaving Kosova under Serbia against the will of it’s people will bring peace to the region. Serbia and Russia are playing with the stability of the region and I think that they should be stopped in order to have prosperous region. Some of you forgot that K-Albanians are not alone in this one, they are backed by Albania, Albanians in Macedonia, Preshevo, Bujanoc, and Medvegja.

However let us pray for a peaceful settlement of Kosova status for the sake of the people of Kosova.

1244 is dead

Peter since when do the Copenhagen criteria on EU membership have anything to do with 1244?
If all Poles are as good at understanding the various criteria of the EU as you are that would explain a lot about Poland making itself a nuisance in the EU.
And Kate: I have tried several times to tell you that you are living in a dreamworld as far as Kosova is concerned. May you enjoy it while it lasts and it won't be for long! But you can forget about Kosova ever becoming a part of Serbia. That's in the past and the chances of that happening are even less than the chances of you being unbiased.

Russia keeps saying to you there will be no independence so get used to the idea. Independence has become a myth now and thats the way it will stay. No amount of terrorism can change that.

CCCC

Kate: "But ultimately in years to come of course Serbia will be involved in the security of the province. I am sure that you know I'm not talking about burning or killing. "

If you mention any Serbia's role in securing the province then that's precisely what you are talking about; burning and killing.

Kate: "Actually, you are talking about my own taxes and I certainly don't condone paying to create an independent Kosovo."

Otherwise you will pay taxes to start another war against Serbia, just like in the 90's, and that is much more expensive.

I completely agree with Kate on this one. She never used the violent language that Agim mentioned, all she said was that Serbia needed to take control, which she does. Every other country in the world would do as such. Look at how Spain is angrily reacting to the aspirations of the violent Basque movement. I'm sorry to remind you Agim, Elton, Isufi, Nikshala, et al, but you guys and your revered KLA are the ones that started the murders, harrassments, and expulsions. It's a good thing for you that the western media has painted the Albanians as peace loving Nobel Prize laureates.

It's about time that the UN sees whats going on in Kosovo at the Serbs expence. And now the terrorist group of the ANA has emerged. As long as they are in the valley, the Serbs (VS) will handle them. The only reason the US supports the Greater albanian cause is because of rent free camp Bondsteel.

This is a nice way to say to albanians in Kosovo that crimes do not always pay.

Agim: ""even if it means physically regaining control", said Kate.
This clearly means to use military force even if it means killing and burning as long as Serbia gains control of the land, right."

Actually I was talking about physical control by the international troops if there is a need to react to the violence, which at the moment is only threatened.

But ultimately in years to come of course Serbia will be involved in the security of the province. I am sure that you know I'm not talking about burning or killing.

Funcakes: "The money will come from the wonderful countries that will recognize independence, and that money will help enforcing the Ahtisaari guidelines."

That is a great idea of independence you have there, Funcakes. Similar to a teenager's.

Actually, you are talking about my own taxes and I certainly don't condone paying to create an independent Kosovo.

"Peter since when do the Copenhagen criteria on EU membership have anything to do with 1244? "

Because the European Commission states explicitly that EU membership for Kosovo is only possible as a part of Serbia as per UNSCR1244. I made a mistake by typing Copenhagen Criteria, I was meant to type European Commission, the Copenhagen Criteria I used in another argument (Serbia would have to adhere to the principles).

"If all Poles are as good at understanding the various criteria of the EU as you are that would explain a lot about Poland making itself a nuisance in the EU."

How is Poland making a nuisance of itself in the EU? At least we are in it, I doubt an "independent" Kosovo will make it there in the next 20 years, but anyway, it is Kosovo being a nuisance by forcing the world to break international law because some of the people are disgruntled and think a little too much of themselves for how much their "state" is worth!

"1244 is dead"

That's the only law that would make you a recognized, independent state like anyone else. The only reason the US are bypassing it is because they fear losing face after the silly promises they made, not because they care about Kosovo so much. A vast majority couldn't give a flying money about Kosovo, let alone know where it is!

"The money will come from the wonderful countries that will recognize independence, and that money will help enforcing the Ahtisaari guidelines. "

Since you advocate Kosovo independence so much and claim it should be able to do fine by itself, why the EU and US money?

"It is really immature to think than leaving Kosova under Serbia against the will of it’s people will bring peace to the region."

Yet it is mature to break international law by taking away a part of a sovereign and recognized state of the UN against its will because of a few disgruntled people?

"Serbia and Russia are playing with the stability of the region and I think that they should be stopped in order to have prosperous region."

Right, and the US and "Kosova" are not playing with the stability of the region?

KS,

1244 is dead? Really? Why there is no new UNSC resolution then.

Don't fool yourself: 1244 is still there. We all know the deal was autonomy. Serbs should not complain now. As they signed in 1999. Same for Albanians!

Get a life, welcome in Europe. Maybe take a look at a country in Holland where differen peoples DO live together!

Nikshala, Kate was talking of the IC troops taking control of the situation there, as even the UN sees that it's not looking good over there (human rights for non albanians). But like you & most of the 2 million albanians in Kosovo threaten war if you/they dont get independence. As for the ana, sounds like you are a sympathiser of this terrorist group. CCCC

Ron, dutch people were not killing, raping or massacring other ethnic groups in Holland...
remebere srebrenica??it was hollanders that were (supossly )protecting the poor civlian...we will be part of serbia when crotia,b&h,slovenia,macedonia and monte negro are back under serbia.. their own people ( south slavs)dont want to live together and than the millon dollar question is WHY SHOULD WE wellcome to balkans> .and by the way how come holland does not want to become part of Germany..?? sorry for misspelling