19

Friday, 05.10.2007.

09:49

FM: Serbia against artificial deadlines

Vuk Jeremić says Belgrade opposes insistence on "artificial deadlines" for the conclusion of the Kosovo status talks.

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19 Komentari

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

It is you who has no clue on economics. I am quoting purely unbiased sources from World Bank.

Kosovo has 40%-50% unemployment and Serbia 20%.

Oh, and do you have any idea how Kosovo's GDP looks like? 13% is thanks to remittances from Kosovar's abroad, and 34% from foreign aid. That means that almost half the GDP is thanks to the outside world!!!

You can clearly see that Kosovo is weak here, at least, FAR weaker than Serbia.

KS

pre 16 godina

Serb Camp said, "Serbia's average GDP per capita is four times higher than Kosovo's, Kosovo has over twice as much unemployment as Serbia does, Serbia's economic growth is almost at four times the speed of Kosovo..."


WOW Peter, either you have no idea in economics or you're here to spread propaganda.

Kosova has 40-70% unemployment with the current economy is in the stall bc Serbia won't let privatisation happen.

Serbia has 20-30% unemployment.

So if you're telling me that the GDP of Kosova is 1/3 of Serbia with 70% unemployment --- well that says a lot about Serbia. Weak!!!

You Serbs don't get it, Kosovars want NOTHING to do with you. Kosova would rather join with China or India than live in one roof with you. Also MONTENEGRO has a better chance at join EU than you.

Montenegro doesn't protect war-criminals. When criminals look at countries to expand their operations, Serbia pops-up as a haven for such business.

johny

pre 16 godina

"The danger is there. With a set time and a default position that amounts to their ‘maximalist demands’, what interest could the Kosovo Albanians have in negotiating in good faith?" he said and added: "As paradoxical as it may seem, without a deadline, minds in Belgrade as well as Priština will focus on the means to reach a negotiated solution.""

Lets analyze this for a moment. Mr Foreign minister seem not to grasp the idea of these talks. Compromise for him and his friends means Albanians accepting to be ruled by Serbia under one of the many variations of autonomy. Well Mr. Jeremic that is not the case. What incentives would Serbia have to reach a compromise if independence was dropped from the talks. Serbia would have what it wants so why even bother discussing, lets not even talk a about compromise which certainly is not autonomous Kosova/o.Why would Serbia discuss in good faith if it knew they would get what they want. Also Serbia's maximalist demands would be met, that would be rule Kosova/o again, so why would they even bother discussing if they already knew that they'd rule Kosova/o again.

Without a deadline minds in Belgrade would focus on nothing. They wouldn't even bother to negotiate. The current situation would drag for decades but Kosova/o would be Serbia's on paper. That way the UN and NATO will govern the Albanians and Serbia wouldn't need to spend a dime on its heart, Kosova/o. When NATO and UN leaves decades from now then they can attempt another ethnic cleansing of the Albanians but this time they will make damn sure that no Albanian would be left in Kosova/o. Things work well for Serbia if the current status is left like it is, meaning no deadlines, thus they would have no incentives to discuss in good faith and reach a negotiated solution.

EA

pre 16 godina

What does "artificial" means for the Serbian Foreign Minister? Is it not enough the 10th of December? Does it mean "natural" to him to have the more than Kosovar Albanians accept to be Serbian citizens in other words to accept the Serbian sovereignity? They have more tha two months to "negotiate". I personally doubt in any miracle that the Serbian will accept the Kosova independence for the foreseeable future. So let's be real and serious when you talk about "artificial" deadlines. You can not drag the process for much longer!

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

"Peter: the serbian GDP per capita was 3-4 times higher then albanian one some 5 years ago, now is more or less the same- things change. Your Polish GDP per capita, not so many time ago, was not much higher, am afraid
Kosova's economic perspective is under one sole albanian market, we don't need serbia at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 16:38)"

No ben, I am quoting recent statistics:

Kosovo (2006) - $2 115
Serbia (2007) - $7 234

Serbia is not called one the "Balkan tiger" for nothing, it has the highest growth rate in former Communist Europe.

Also one more thing you said incorrectly, Poland's GDP per capita in 2002 was $9 500, over four times that what Kosovo is today.

There really is no comparison.

While I know Poland is definitely one of the poorest EU nations (3rd poorest in fact), current GDP per capita is $14 400 (2006), about seven times higher than that of Kosovo, while only twice that of Serbia.

This is all just to show you how long Kosovo has to go...

"Peter, your logic makes very little sense. If that had been the first consideration in struggles of liberation Serbia should have become part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and should have stayed there. But they didn't.
The fact of the matter is that when it comes to independence no one stops to make calculations like that. They are just irrelevant and not worthy of any attention. Kosova will have problems on its own but don't believe for a second that things would be any better were it to remain a part of Serbia. Serbia has enough to do on its own and whatever Pincip might say I simply do not believe for a moment that they would invest and try to improve the economy of Kosova while there are parts of Serbia that are just as poor. It would not be possible politically. So we are gonna become independent however irrational that may sound to you.
(teni, 5. October 2007 16:41)"

I completely understand the perspective of the Kosovar Albanians, I would want the samem all I was doing was trying to make a point to ben.

generous

pre 16 godina

I found this article interesting so I thought I'd share it with all of you! click here http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/opinion/05fri2.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
By the way, if implementing the ideas from the last paragraph of this article(quote:"A sovereign Kosovo, like all new democracies, will need long-term help meeting legal, human rights, economic and other challenges, but its people deserve the chance to try. And Serbs need to come to terms with the fact that Kosovo will never again be ruled by Belgrade. It’s time to begin healing this last Balkan wound".) I strongly believe that this last wound in the Bllkans would be heald forever!

Mark Green

pre 16 godina

Kosovo will become a independent nation, whether Serbia and Russia like it or not. 90% of the population of Kosovo don't want to be in Serbia or Serbian citizens and they don't want your autonomy, which you may revoke in the future.

albano

pre 16 godina

What in the gods name you want more, albanians in Kosovo do not want to be in any relations with Serbia,and noone ever can make them to have any relations with Serbia, and if they listen to you , those negotiations will never end, and time is crutial, for both states , Kosovo and Serbia, both of them want to go forward not to stay at the same place.
So people of Serbia think logicaly and do not let those corrupted politicians of yours keep Serbia the way it is now.

teni

pre 16 godina

Peter, your logic makes very little sense. If that had been the first consideration in struggles of liberation Serbia should have become part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and should have stayed there. But they didn't.
The fact of the matter is that when it comes to independence no one stops to make calculations like that. They are just irrelevant and not worthy of any attention. Kosova will have problems on its own but don't believe for a second that things would be any better were it to remain a part of Serbia. Serbia has enough to do on its own and whatever Pincip might say I simply do not believe for a moment that they would invest and try to improve the economy of Kosova while there are parts of Serbia that are just as poor. It would not be possible politically. So we are gonna become independent however irrational that may sound to you.

ben

pre 16 godina

Peter: the serbian GDP per capita was 3-4 times higher then albanian one some 5 years ago, now is more or less the same- things change. Your Polish GDP per capita, not so many time ago, was not much higher, am afraid
Kosova's economic perspective is under one sole albanian market, we don't need serbia at all.

Ratko

pre 16 godina

" Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 14:01) "

oh ben....
This makes me really laugh.

You are speaking as if KiM belongs to albanians? KiM never was and never will be albanian. There is nothing that albans can offer Serbia. YOU are living in Serbia, and that's why you keep applying for Serbian passports.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

"What can serbia offer to us as better prespective- is serbia a developed/industrialized country? Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 14:01) "

Do you have any idea what you are talking about???

Serbia's average GDP per capita is four times higher than Kosovo's, Kosovo has over twice as much unemployment as Serbia does, Serbia's economic growth is almost at four times the speed of Kosovo...

To conclude, Serbia has industry, commerce and agriculture and is self-reliant, Kosovo relies soley on aid.

What kind of nonsense are you talking about that Serbia cannot offer you that you can achieve on your own?

As a part of Serbia, Kosovo will join EU within the next 6 years, on its own, it will be sitting alongside Moldova at the back of the queue to EU membership and non-existant infrastructure while the Serbs enjoy a bright future.

teni

pre 16 godina

Princip: There is gonna be an independent Kosova. You really have to be in denial not to see that. As for the status being decided next year that is just common sense if you consider that the talks end on December 10th. That is just the date when the report is gonna be handed over to the Secretary General and you know full well that he is not gonna read on that very same day. Given the fact that Christmas and New Year are approaching the solution will have to wait until January. It would be stupid to come out with a specific date on when that will happen but it is not long now.
And I think you are right about the monasteries and such. The Serb government is so obsessed with a lost cause that it has completely ignored what will happen after independence. Instead of focusing on assuring more rights and guarantees for the Albanian Serbs in Kosova they keep on going on and on proposing something they know full well will never happen.

lazer

pre 16 godina

The Dec. 10th deadline was set as a last ditch negotiations, since the UNSC was not about to fail passing the Ahtisari plan for Kosovo/a.
Kosovo/a was going to declare Independence unilateraly but refrained in cooperation with UN, EU and US. Contact Group wanted to do more, trying to find something between the parties to agree, but that is far fetched, since both sides are sticking to their respective desicions.
By Dec. 10th, The Troika is supposed to give the SG of UN the report of the progress.
My take is that, since no significant progress has been made, the UN is going to implement Ahtisari's plan, which, lets not forget, was initiated and supported by UN and the SG Ban Ki Moon and majority of the World Powers.
Lets not forget that it was The World Powers that gave Kosovo/a as a gift to the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes right after the WW1.
The time has come for Kosovo/a to be returned to their rightful owners, The People of Kosovo/a, THE KOSOVAR ALBANIANS who make up over 90% (majority) of the population.
Very simple!

Joe

pre 16 godina

Poor Vuk has nothing better in his beg than this old wishful delaying tactic. As the New York Times pointed out today in a rare article on Kosovo "Eight years after NATO went to war to stop the ethnic purge in Kosovo, it's time for the international community to recognize the province's independence from Serbia". "And Serbs need to come to terms with the fact that Kosovo will never again be ruled by Belgrade".
It will be interesting to read the comments of Kate, Princip, Cvele, PB, etc once Kosovo,Kocobo or Kosova becomes independant. They will surely write " God how could you allow such a thing?"

ben

pre 16 godina

Princip
'a future in Serbia is brighter then any illegal declarations.'
why don't you try for once to think that maybe we know what is good for ourselfs- just think for a moment? What can serbia offer to us as better prespective- is serbia a developed/industrialized country? Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

Adriano,

"Not a single word on serbian monasterys, on refugee returns on Serbian soil. Just a reduction to a simple plea to not change borders,"

- all that goes without saying with regards reconiliation of all the Serbian citizens. The fact remains there will be NO partition of teh serbian state nor it's citizens and that is closer to a "european" solution then the forced creation of a mono-ethnic entity on another UN recognised memmber states territory.

The fact that Wisner has now openly accepted that the talks will go is another sign that only a through dialogue and a "european" perspective will the Gordian knot of Kosovo be resolved and it is resolved with the continuation of Serbia's soverignity.

Only through reconcilation can the "optimal" way forward come about and that will bring Serbia closer to EU acession and equally provides the much needed opportunity of Economic development to Serbia's southern province - a future in Serbia is brighter then any illegal declarations.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

I disagree, Mr. Harvard Graduate.

I think that a deadline increases the pressure into reaching an agreement, and doesn't allow anyone to blow it off.

The status quo is no longer sustainable, therefore this has to be taken into consideration by setting a deadline, and the pressure to reach into an agreement will serve as an incentive to get things done.

Serbia needs to realise that the compromise is NOT Serbia's "territorial integrity". Kosovo is long lost for Serbia.

The compromise here is whether to have the Ahtisaari plan approved as a whole by UNSC, or to leave it in the hands of the Kosovar Parliament, which can pass whichever laws it wants from the package, however it sees fit!

The compromise is not independence or autonomy.

The compromise is Ahtisaari Plan through UNSC or through the Kosovar Gov't.

Choose choose!

adriano

pre 16 godina

"As paradoxical as it may seem, without a deadline, minds in Belgrade as well as Priština will focus on the means to reach a negotiated solution."

It sounds really naive for a foreign minister do give sloppy details like this.
He has been told that independence is very likely, but he is happy he has postponed it for enough time to get something out of it.

Not a single word on serbian monasterys, on refugee returns on Serbian soil. Just a reduction to a simple plea to not change borders, to witch kosovo has a very simple answer, to late, to little and not for the right reason. NO MORE RETURN TO SERBIA.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

I disagree, Mr. Harvard Graduate.

I think that a deadline increases the pressure into reaching an agreement, and doesn't allow anyone to blow it off.

The status quo is no longer sustainable, therefore this has to be taken into consideration by setting a deadline, and the pressure to reach into an agreement will serve as an incentive to get things done.

Serbia needs to realise that the compromise is NOT Serbia's "territorial integrity". Kosovo is long lost for Serbia.

The compromise here is whether to have the Ahtisaari plan approved as a whole by UNSC, or to leave it in the hands of the Kosovar Parliament, which can pass whichever laws it wants from the package, however it sees fit!

The compromise is not independence or autonomy.

The compromise is Ahtisaari Plan through UNSC or through the Kosovar Gov't.

Choose choose!

ben

pre 16 godina

Princip
'a future in Serbia is brighter then any illegal declarations.'
why don't you try for once to think that maybe we know what is good for ourselfs- just think for a moment? What can serbia offer to us as better prespective- is serbia a developed/industrialized country? Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.

adriano

pre 16 godina

"As paradoxical as it may seem, without a deadline, minds in Belgrade as well as Priština will focus on the means to reach a negotiated solution."

It sounds really naive for a foreign minister do give sloppy details like this.
He has been told that independence is very likely, but he is happy he has postponed it for enough time to get something out of it.

Not a single word on serbian monasterys, on refugee returns on Serbian soil. Just a reduction to a simple plea to not change borders, to witch kosovo has a very simple answer, to late, to little and not for the right reason. NO MORE RETURN TO SERBIA.

lazer

pre 16 godina

The Dec. 10th deadline was set as a last ditch negotiations, since the UNSC was not about to fail passing the Ahtisari plan for Kosovo/a.
Kosovo/a was going to declare Independence unilateraly but refrained in cooperation with UN, EU and US. Contact Group wanted to do more, trying to find something between the parties to agree, but that is far fetched, since both sides are sticking to their respective desicions.
By Dec. 10th, The Troika is supposed to give the SG of UN the report of the progress.
My take is that, since no significant progress has been made, the UN is going to implement Ahtisari's plan, which, lets not forget, was initiated and supported by UN and the SG Ban Ki Moon and majority of the World Powers.
Lets not forget that it was The World Powers that gave Kosovo/a as a gift to the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes right after the WW1.
The time has come for Kosovo/a to be returned to their rightful owners, The People of Kosovo/a, THE KOSOVAR ALBANIANS who make up over 90% (majority) of the population.
Very simple!

Joe

pre 16 godina

Poor Vuk has nothing better in his beg than this old wishful delaying tactic. As the New York Times pointed out today in a rare article on Kosovo "Eight years after NATO went to war to stop the ethnic purge in Kosovo, it's time for the international community to recognize the province's independence from Serbia". "And Serbs need to come to terms with the fact that Kosovo will never again be ruled by Belgrade".
It will be interesting to read the comments of Kate, Princip, Cvele, PB, etc once Kosovo,Kocobo or Kosova becomes independant. They will surely write " God how could you allow such a thing?"

Mark Green

pre 16 godina

Kosovo will become a independent nation, whether Serbia and Russia like it or not. 90% of the population of Kosovo don't want to be in Serbia or Serbian citizens and they don't want your autonomy, which you may revoke in the future.

ben

pre 16 godina

Peter: the serbian GDP per capita was 3-4 times higher then albanian one some 5 years ago, now is more or less the same- things change. Your Polish GDP per capita, not so many time ago, was not much higher, am afraid
Kosova's economic perspective is under one sole albanian market, we don't need serbia at all.

teni

pre 16 godina

Princip: There is gonna be an independent Kosova. You really have to be in denial not to see that. As for the status being decided next year that is just common sense if you consider that the talks end on December 10th. That is just the date when the report is gonna be handed over to the Secretary General and you know full well that he is not gonna read on that very same day. Given the fact that Christmas and New Year are approaching the solution will have to wait until January. It would be stupid to come out with a specific date on when that will happen but it is not long now.
And I think you are right about the monasteries and such. The Serb government is so obsessed with a lost cause that it has completely ignored what will happen after independence. Instead of focusing on assuring more rights and guarantees for the Albanian Serbs in Kosova they keep on going on and on proposing something they know full well will never happen.

albano

pre 16 godina

What in the gods name you want more, albanians in Kosovo do not want to be in any relations with Serbia,and noone ever can make them to have any relations with Serbia, and if they listen to you , those negotiations will never end, and time is crutial, for both states , Kosovo and Serbia, both of them want to go forward not to stay at the same place.
So people of Serbia think logicaly and do not let those corrupted politicians of yours keep Serbia the way it is now.

teni

pre 16 godina

Peter, your logic makes very little sense. If that had been the first consideration in struggles of liberation Serbia should have become part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and should have stayed there. But they didn't.
The fact of the matter is that when it comes to independence no one stops to make calculations like that. They are just irrelevant and not worthy of any attention. Kosova will have problems on its own but don't believe for a second that things would be any better were it to remain a part of Serbia. Serbia has enough to do on its own and whatever Pincip might say I simply do not believe for a moment that they would invest and try to improve the economy of Kosova while there are parts of Serbia that are just as poor. It would not be possible politically. So we are gonna become independent however irrational that may sound to you.

generous

pre 16 godina

I found this article interesting so I thought I'd share it with all of you! click here http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/opinion/05fri2.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
By the way, if implementing the ideas from the last paragraph of this article(quote:"A sovereign Kosovo, like all new democracies, will need long-term help meeting legal, human rights, economic and other challenges, but its people deserve the chance to try. And Serbs need to come to terms with the fact that Kosovo will never again be ruled by Belgrade. It’s time to begin healing this last Balkan wound".) I strongly believe that this last wound in the Bllkans would be heald forever!

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

Adriano,

"Not a single word on serbian monasterys, on refugee returns on Serbian soil. Just a reduction to a simple plea to not change borders,"

- all that goes without saying with regards reconiliation of all the Serbian citizens. The fact remains there will be NO partition of teh serbian state nor it's citizens and that is closer to a "european" solution then the forced creation of a mono-ethnic entity on another UN recognised memmber states territory.

The fact that Wisner has now openly accepted that the talks will go is another sign that only a through dialogue and a "european" perspective will the Gordian knot of Kosovo be resolved and it is resolved with the continuation of Serbia's soverignity.

Only through reconcilation can the "optimal" way forward come about and that will bring Serbia closer to EU acession and equally provides the much needed opportunity of Economic development to Serbia's southern province - a future in Serbia is brighter then any illegal declarations.

EA

pre 16 godina

What does "artificial" means for the Serbian Foreign Minister? Is it not enough the 10th of December? Does it mean "natural" to him to have the more than Kosovar Albanians accept to be Serbian citizens in other words to accept the Serbian sovereignity? They have more tha two months to "negotiate". I personally doubt in any miracle that the Serbian will accept the Kosova independence for the foreseeable future. So let's be real and serious when you talk about "artificial" deadlines. You can not drag the process for much longer!

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

"What can serbia offer to us as better prespective- is serbia a developed/industrialized country? Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 14:01) "

Do you have any idea what you are talking about???

Serbia's average GDP per capita is four times higher than Kosovo's, Kosovo has over twice as much unemployment as Serbia does, Serbia's economic growth is almost at four times the speed of Kosovo...

To conclude, Serbia has industry, commerce and agriculture and is self-reliant, Kosovo relies soley on aid.

What kind of nonsense are you talking about that Serbia cannot offer you that you can achieve on your own?

As a part of Serbia, Kosovo will join EU within the next 6 years, on its own, it will be sitting alongside Moldova at the back of the queue to EU membership and non-existant infrastructure while the Serbs enjoy a bright future.

Ratko

pre 16 godina

" Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 14:01) "

oh ben....
This makes me really laugh.

You are speaking as if KiM belongs to albanians? KiM never was and never will be albanian. There is nothing that albans can offer Serbia. YOU are living in Serbia, and that's why you keep applying for Serbian passports.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

"Peter: the serbian GDP per capita was 3-4 times higher then albanian one some 5 years ago, now is more or less the same- things change. Your Polish GDP per capita, not so many time ago, was not much higher, am afraid
Kosova's economic perspective is under one sole albanian market, we don't need serbia at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 16:38)"

No ben, I am quoting recent statistics:

Kosovo (2006) - $2 115
Serbia (2007) - $7 234

Serbia is not called one the "Balkan tiger" for nothing, it has the highest growth rate in former Communist Europe.

Also one more thing you said incorrectly, Poland's GDP per capita in 2002 was $9 500, over four times that what Kosovo is today.

There really is no comparison.

While I know Poland is definitely one of the poorest EU nations (3rd poorest in fact), current GDP per capita is $14 400 (2006), about seven times higher than that of Kosovo, while only twice that of Serbia.

This is all just to show you how long Kosovo has to go...

"Peter, your logic makes very little sense. If that had been the first consideration in struggles of liberation Serbia should have become part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and should have stayed there. But they didn't.
The fact of the matter is that when it comes to independence no one stops to make calculations like that. They are just irrelevant and not worthy of any attention. Kosova will have problems on its own but don't believe for a second that things would be any better were it to remain a part of Serbia. Serbia has enough to do on its own and whatever Pincip might say I simply do not believe for a moment that they would invest and try to improve the economy of Kosova while there are parts of Serbia that are just as poor. It would not be possible politically. So we are gonna become independent however irrational that may sound to you.
(teni, 5. October 2007 16:41)"

I completely understand the perspective of the Kosovar Albanians, I would want the samem all I was doing was trying to make a point to ben.

johny

pre 16 godina

"The danger is there. With a set time and a default position that amounts to their ‘maximalist demands’, what interest could the Kosovo Albanians have in negotiating in good faith?" he said and added: "As paradoxical as it may seem, without a deadline, minds in Belgrade as well as Priština will focus on the means to reach a negotiated solution.""

Lets analyze this for a moment. Mr Foreign minister seem not to grasp the idea of these talks. Compromise for him and his friends means Albanians accepting to be ruled by Serbia under one of the many variations of autonomy. Well Mr. Jeremic that is not the case. What incentives would Serbia have to reach a compromise if independence was dropped from the talks. Serbia would have what it wants so why even bother discussing, lets not even talk a about compromise which certainly is not autonomous Kosova/o.Why would Serbia discuss in good faith if it knew they would get what they want. Also Serbia's maximalist demands would be met, that would be rule Kosova/o again, so why would they even bother discussing if they already knew that they'd rule Kosova/o again.

Without a deadline minds in Belgrade would focus on nothing. They wouldn't even bother to negotiate. The current situation would drag for decades but Kosova/o would be Serbia's on paper. That way the UN and NATO will govern the Albanians and Serbia wouldn't need to spend a dime on its heart, Kosova/o. When NATO and UN leaves decades from now then they can attempt another ethnic cleansing of the Albanians but this time they will make damn sure that no Albanian would be left in Kosova/o. Things work well for Serbia if the current status is left like it is, meaning no deadlines, thus they would have no incentives to discuss in good faith and reach a negotiated solution.

KS

pre 16 godina

Serb Camp said, "Serbia's average GDP per capita is four times higher than Kosovo's, Kosovo has over twice as much unemployment as Serbia does, Serbia's economic growth is almost at four times the speed of Kosovo..."


WOW Peter, either you have no idea in economics or you're here to spread propaganda.

Kosova has 40-70% unemployment with the current economy is in the stall bc Serbia won't let privatisation happen.

Serbia has 20-30% unemployment.

So if you're telling me that the GDP of Kosova is 1/3 of Serbia with 70% unemployment --- well that says a lot about Serbia. Weak!!!

You Serbs don't get it, Kosovars want NOTHING to do with you. Kosova would rather join with China or India than live in one roof with you. Also MONTENEGRO has a better chance at join EU than you.

Montenegro doesn't protect war-criminals. When criminals look at countries to expand their operations, Serbia pops-up as a haven for such business.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

It is you who has no clue on economics. I am quoting purely unbiased sources from World Bank.

Kosovo has 40%-50% unemployment and Serbia 20%.

Oh, and do you have any idea how Kosovo's GDP looks like? 13% is thanks to remittances from Kosovar's abroad, and 34% from foreign aid. That means that almost half the GDP is thanks to the outside world!!!

You can clearly see that Kosovo is weak here, at least, FAR weaker than Serbia.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

Adriano,

"Not a single word on serbian monasterys, on refugee returns on Serbian soil. Just a reduction to a simple plea to not change borders,"

- all that goes without saying with regards reconiliation of all the Serbian citizens. The fact remains there will be NO partition of teh serbian state nor it's citizens and that is closer to a "european" solution then the forced creation of a mono-ethnic entity on another UN recognised memmber states territory.

The fact that Wisner has now openly accepted that the talks will go is another sign that only a through dialogue and a "european" perspective will the Gordian knot of Kosovo be resolved and it is resolved with the continuation of Serbia's soverignity.

Only through reconcilation can the "optimal" way forward come about and that will bring Serbia closer to EU acession and equally provides the much needed opportunity of Economic development to Serbia's southern province - a future in Serbia is brighter then any illegal declarations.

adriano

pre 16 godina

"As paradoxical as it may seem, without a deadline, minds in Belgrade as well as Priština will focus on the means to reach a negotiated solution."

It sounds really naive for a foreign minister do give sloppy details like this.
He has been told that independence is very likely, but he is happy he has postponed it for enough time to get something out of it.

Not a single word on serbian monasterys, on refugee returns on Serbian soil. Just a reduction to a simple plea to not change borders, to witch kosovo has a very simple answer, to late, to little and not for the right reason. NO MORE RETURN TO SERBIA.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

I disagree, Mr. Harvard Graduate.

I think that a deadline increases the pressure into reaching an agreement, and doesn't allow anyone to blow it off.

The status quo is no longer sustainable, therefore this has to be taken into consideration by setting a deadline, and the pressure to reach into an agreement will serve as an incentive to get things done.

Serbia needs to realise that the compromise is NOT Serbia's "territorial integrity". Kosovo is long lost for Serbia.

The compromise here is whether to have the Ahtisaari plan approved as a whole by UNSC, or to leave it in the hands of the Kosovar Parliament, which can pass whichever laws it wants from the package, however it sees fit!

The compromise is not independence or autonomy.

The compromise is Ahtisaari Plan through UNSC or through the Kosovar Gov't.

Choose choose!

ben

pre 16 godina

Princip
'a future in Serbia is brighter then any illegal declarations.'
why don't you try for once to think that maybe we know what is good for ourselfs- just think for a moment? What can serbia offer to us as better prespective- is serbia a developed/industrialized country? Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.

lazer

pre 16 godina

The Dec. 10th deadline was set as a last ditch negotiations, since the UNSC was not about to fail passing the Ahtisari plan for Kosovo/a.
Kosovo/a was going to declare Independence unilateraly but refrained in cooperation with UN, EU and US. Contact Group wanted to do more, trying to find something between the parties to agree, but that is far fetched, since both sides are sticking to their respective desicions.
By Dec. 10th, The Troika is supposed to give the SG of UN the report of the progress.
My take is that, since no significant progress has been made, the UN is going to implement Ahtisari's plan, which, lets not forget, was initiated and supported by UN and the SG Ban Ki Moon and majority of the World Powers.
Lets not forget that it was The World Powers that gave Kosovo/a as a gift to the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes right after the WW1.
The time has come for Kosovo/a to be returned to their rightful owners, The People of Kosovo/a, THE KOSOVAR ALBANIANS who make up over 90% (majority) of the population.
Very simple!

Joe

pre 16 godina

Poor Vuk has nothing better in his beg than this old wishful delaying tactic. As the New York Times pointed out today in a rare article on Kosovo "Eight years after NATO went to war to stop the ethnic purge in Kosovo, it's time for the international community to recognize the province's independence from Serbia". "And Serbs need to come to terms with the fact that Kosovo will never again be ruled by Belgrade".
It will be interesting to read the comments of Kate, Princip, Cvele, PB, etc once Kosovo,Kocobo or Kosova becomes independant. They will surely write " God how could you allow such a thing?"

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

"What can serbia offer to us as better prespective- is serbia a developed/industrialized country? Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 14:01) "

Do you have any idea what you are talking about???

Serbia's average GDP per capita is four times higher than Kosovo's, Kosovo has over twice as much unemployment as Serbia does, Serbia's economic growth is almost at four times the speed of Kosovo...

To conclude, Serbia has industry, commerce and agriculture and is self-reliant, Kosovo relies soley on aid.

What kind of nonsense are you talking about that Serbia cannot offer you that you can achieve on your own?

As a part of Serbia, Kosovo will join EU within the next 6 years, on its own, it will be sitting alongside Moldova at the back of the queue to EU membership and non-existant infrastructure while the Serbs enjoy a bright future.

teni

pre 16 godina

Princip: There is gonna be an independent Kosova. You really have to be in denial not to see that. As for the status being decided next year that is just common sense if you consider that the talks end on December 10th. That is just the date when the report is gonna be handed over to the Secretary General and you know full well that he is not gonna read on that very same day. Given the fact that Christmas and New Year are approaching the solution will have to wait until January. It would be stupid to come out with a specific date on when that will happen but it is not long now.
And I think you are right about the monasteries and such. The Serb government is so obsessed with a lost cause that it has completely ignored what will happen after independence. Instead of focusing on assuring more rights and guarantees for the Albanian Serbs in Kosova they keep on going on and on proposing something they know full well will never happen.

albano

pre 16 godina

What in the gods name you want more, albanians in Kosovo do not want to be in any relations with Serbia,and noone ever can make them to have any relations with Serbia, and if they listen to you , those negotiations will never end, and time is crutial, for both states , Kosovo and Serbia, both of them want to go forward not to stay at the same place.
So people of Serbia think logicaly and do not let those corrupted politicians of yours keep Serbia the way it is now.

Ratko

pre 16 godina

" Kosova is much more richer then serbia- they can offer nothing to us but we surelly can offer to them it's all about our mines not about monasters- that they never visit them at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 14:01) "

oh ben....
This makes me really laugh.

You are speaking as if KiM belongs to albanians? KiM never was and never will be albanian. There is nothing that albans can offer Serbia. YOU are living in Serbia, and that's why you keep applying for Serbian passports.

ben

pre 16 godina

Peter: the serbian GDP per capita was 3-4 times higher then albanian one some 5 years ago, now is more or less the same- things change. Your Polish GDP per capita, not so many time ago, was not much higher, am afraid
Kosova's economic perspective is under one sole albanian market, we don't need serbia at all.

teni

pre 16 godina

Peter, your logic makes very little sense. If that had been the first consideration in struggles of liberation Serbia should have become part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and should have stayed there. But they didn't.
The fact of the matter is that when it comes to independence no one stops to make calculations like that. They are just irrelevant and not worthy of any attention. Kosova will have problems on its own but don't believe for a second that things would be any better were it to remain a part of Serbia. Serbia has enough to do on its own and whatever Pincip might say I simply do not believe for a moment that they would invest and try to improve the economy of Kosova while there are parts of Serbia that are just as poor. It would not be possible politically. So we are gonna become independent however irrational that may sound to you.

Mark Green

pre 16 godina

Kosovo will become a independent nation, whether Serbia and Russia like it or not. 90% of the population of Kosovo don't want to be in Serbia or Serbian citizens and they don't want your autonomy, which you may revoke in the future.

EA

pre 16 godina

What does "artificial" means for the Serbian Foreign Minister? Is it not enough the 10th of December? Does it mean "natural" to him to have the more than Kosovar Albanians accept to be Serbian citizens in other words to accept the Serbian sovereignity? They have more tha two months to "negotiate". I personally doubt in any miracle that the Serbian will accept the Kosova independence for the foreseeable future. So let's be real and serious when you talk about "artificial" deadlines. You can not drag the process for much longer!

generous

pre 16 godina

I found this article interesting so I thought I'd share it with all of you! click here http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/opinion/05fri2.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
By the way, if implementing the ideas from the last paragraph of this article(quote:"A sovereign Kosovo, like all new democracies, will need long-term help meeting legal, human rights, economic and other challenges, but its people deserve the chance to try. And Serbs need to come to terms with the fact that Kosovo will never again be ruled by Belgrade. It’s time to begin healing this last Balkan wound".) I strongly believe that this last wound in the Bllkans would be heald forever!

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

"Peter: the serbian GDP per capita was 3-4 times higher then albanian one some 5 years ago, now is more or less the same- things change. Your Polish GDP per capita, not so many time ago, was not much higher, am afraid
Kosova's economic perspective is under one sole albanian market, we don't need serbia at all.
(ben, 5. October 2007 16:38)"

No ben, I am quoting recent statistics:

Kosovo (2006) - $2 115
Serbia (2007) - $7 234

Serbia is not called one the "Balkan tiger" for nothing, it has the highest growth rate in former Communist Europe.

Also one more thing you said incorrectly, Poland's GDP per capita in 2002 was $9 500, over four times that what Kosovo is today.

There really is no comparison.

While I know Poland is definitely one of the poorest EU nations (3rd poorest in fact), current GDP per capita is $14 400 (2006), about seven times higher than that of Kosovo, while only twice that of Serbia.

This is all just to show you how long Kosovo has to go...

"Peter, your logic makes very little sense. If that had been the first consideration in struggles of liberation Serbia should have become part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and should have stayed there. But they didn't.
The fact of the matter is that when it comes to independence no one stops to make calculations like that. They are just irrelevant and not worthy of any attention. Kosova will have problems on its own but don't believe for a second that things would be any better were it to remain a part of Serbia. Serbia has enough to do on its own and whatever Pincip might say I simply do not believe for a moment that they would invest and try to improve the economy of Kosova while there are parts of Serbia that are just as poor. It would not be possible politically. So we are gonna become independent however irrational that may sound to you.
(teni, 5. October 2007 16:41)"

I completely understand the perspective of the Kosovar Albanians, I would want the samem all I was doing was trying to make a point to ben.

johny

pre 16 godina

"The danger is there. With a set time and a default position that amounts to their ‘maximalist demands’, what interest could the Kosovo Albanians have in negotiating in good faith?" he said and added: "As paradoxical as it may seem, without a deadline, minds in Belgrade as well as Priština will focus on the means to reach a negotiated solution.""

Lets analyze this for a moment. Mr Foreign minister seem not to grasp the idea of these talks. Compromise for him and his friends means Albanians accepting to be ruled by Serbia under one of the many variations of autonomy. Well Mr. Jeremic that is not the case. What incentives would Serbia have to reach a compromise if independence was dropped from the talks. Serbia would have what it wants so why even bother discussing, lets not even talk a about compromise which certainly is not autonomous Kosova/o.Why would Serbia discuss in good faith if it knew they would get what they want. Also Serbia's maximalist demands would be met, that would be rule Kosova/o again, so why would they even bother discussing if they already knew that they'd rule Kosova/o again.

Without a deadline minds in Belgrade would focus on nothing. They wouldn't even bother to negotiate. The current situation would drag for decades but Kosova/o would be Serbia's on paper. That way the UN and NATO will govern the Albanians and Serbia wouldn't need to spend a dime on its heart, Kosova/o. When NATO and UN leaves decades from now then they can attempt another ethnic cleansing of the Albanians but this time they will make damn sure that no Albanian would be left in Kosova/o. Things work well for Serbia if the current status is left like it is, meaning no deadlines, thus they would have no incentives to discuss in good faith and reach a negotiated solution.

KS

pre 16 godina

Serb Camp said, "Serbia's average GDP per capita is four times higher than Kosovo's, Kosovo has over twice as much unemployment as Serbia does, Serbia's economic growth is almost at four times the speed of Kosovo..."


WOW Peter, either you have no idea in economics or you're here to spread propaganda.

Kosova has 40-70% unemployment with the current economy is in the stall bc Serbia won't let privatisation happen.

Serbia has 20-30% unemployment.

So if you're telling me that the GDP of Kosova is 1/3 of Serbia with 70% unemployment --- well that says a lot about Serbia. Weak!!!

You Serbs don't get it, Kosovars want NOTHING to do with you. Kosova would rather join with China or India than live in one roof with you. Also MONTENEGRO has a better chance at join EU than you.

Montenegro doesn't protect war-criminals. When criminals look at countries to expand their operations, Serbia pops-up as a haven for such business.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

KS

It is you who has no clue on economics. I am quoting purely unbiased sources from World Bank.

Kosovo has 40%-50% unemployment and Serbia 20%.

Oh, and do you have any idea how Kosovo's GDP looks like? 13% is thanks to remittances from Kosovar's abroad, and 34% from foreign aid. That means that almost half the GDP is thanks to the outside world!!!

You can clearly see that Kosovo is weak here, at least, FAR weaker than Serbia.