44

Thursday, 04.10.2007.

10:43

Tadić warns about promoting terror

President Boris Tadić warned KFOR and UNMIK today that Albanian media in Kosovo may be promoting terror organizations.

Izvor: B92

Tadiæ warns about promoting terror IMAGE SOURCE
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44 Komentari

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tan

pre 16 godina

quote:
Terrorism - in all forms and manifestations - must be CRUSHED! There can be no negotiations with fanatics who are hellbent on their mono-maniacal goals (e.g. "independence," "jihad," or "liberation"). The rest of the world is seeing (and will see) the real consequences of their dangerous policies which support these entities, many of which will come to haunt them! What is happening (and what happened) in Kosovo and Bosnia (cf. Mujahadeen, thwarted attack on the US embassy in Vienna, Fort Dix, etc.) is the TRUE FACE of it. We have reached a critical point in world affairs. The tide, however, is turning: haters of peace and humanity beware, the bell tolls for thee! "end quote

Hey are you talking as a christian here ?!
1- Christianity isnt mentioned in the bible
2.-the word bible is not mentioned in the "biblos"
3.Jesus never said i am god
4.-Who are you calling civic, and good: Who made 1,2 wolrd wars for power and domination, -CHRISTIANS
The west prospered when it left the princiles of christianity and the church and seperated it from policy making
ISLAM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY
5.WHo chose, or voted for this world order? USa and russia and other countries have the say on other countries- no one, they elected themselves, by the power of the gun, very democratic and good and moral

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lili

pre 16 godina

i was in kosova when the kids died.
2 things were in question:one of the boyswas the only boy of the family after 7 daughter; and that's why it was so emotional for any albanian family,for any albanian mother! then,the mitrovica international officer said that the story was not true and the international police did not BELIEVE that the boys were in the river:the villagers looked for the bodies, not the international police! Then tmk joined them,not the international police!after they found the first body,our lady of international police made a declaration saying that serbs had nothing to do in this affair? how did she know,when a few hours before she had said that the kids were not in the river?
i was horrified by these declarations,as all albanians were!
albanians of the area marched to mitrovica the next day and were shot by serbs from this other side .These killings in mitrovica are the real cause of the mass protest then,because that day when i woke up in the morning in peja area,none of us had the idea to demonstrate but when we listen that 8 albanians have been killed in mitrovica,then we went in peja to demonstrate,and in peja kfor shooted as us(they were romanian too!) and i was a just a women with my 2 little kids,going just to protest for these new serbian killings in mitrovica!
the same thing happened around prishtina and in every town of kosovo!

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shtosi99

pre 16 godina

“Now, would you ever say that because actions of SOME Albanians (who killed the Serbs), ALL Albanians should have been subjected to violance. That because SOME Albanians commited those crimes, Serbs should have gone, even then, burning houses of ALL Albanians? I'm sure that you won't say that.” (sreten, 5. October 2007 15:56)

- Is that not what happened though? 850000 innocent civilians expelled, between 10 and 15 thousand killed, just because some separatist/paramilitary/terrorist (whatever you might call them, or maybe you call them monkeys with tails as one of your officials once did) group called KLA attacked Serbs? You see streten propaganda unfortunately works both ways. Except that in Kosovo there is something being done to return those that fled. Kosovo is working on becoming a multiethnic state, and it already has 3 official languages, Serbian being one of them. What’s Serbia doing to return the Albanian refugees who fled from the Preshevo Valley? Is Serbia willing to give the same rights Albanians in Serbia as Serbs are getting in Kosovo? Belgrade should stop playing games, it’s done enough damage!

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sreten

pre 16 godina

KS.
As you can see from comment No. 39, the Irish dare to question, too.
It's been well known, KS.
In fact the reporter was under investigation himself, for false reporting.

Here is another link that will show you that Canadians dare to question, too.
It's dated April 08, 2004, and published in The National Post.

http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=article&articleid=7427

"The media
reported that four Albanian boys had been chased into the river Ibar in
Mitrovica by at least two Serbs and a dog (the dog's ethnic affiliation was
not reported).Three of the boys drowned and one escaped to the other side.
Immediately, thousands of Albanians mobilized and concentrated in the area
of the divided city. Attacks on Serbs took place throughout the province
resulting in an estimated 30 killed and 600 wounded. Thirty Serbian
Christian Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed, more than 300
homes were burnt to the ground and six Serbian villages cleansed of their
occupants. One hundred and fifty international peacekeepers were injured. "

Then it goes to say:

"Totally ignored in North America were the numerous statements from
impartial sources that said there was no incident between the Serbs, the
dog and the Albanian boys. NATO Police spokesman Derek Chappell stated on
March 16 that it was "definitely not true" that the boys had been chased
into the river by Serbs. Chappell went on to say that the surviving boy
had told his parents that they had entered the river alone and that three of
his friends had been swept away by the current. Admiral Gregory Johnson,
the overall NATO commander, further stated that the ensuing clashes were
"orchestrated and well-planned ethnic cleansing" by the Kosovo-Albanians.
Those Serbs forced to leave joined the 200,000 who had been cleansed from
the province since NATO's "humanitarian" bombing in 1999. "

Now, pay attention to the last sentence here.
Serbs that had to leave joined 200,000 who already left before March 2004.
So, I'm not sure what you mean when you say:

"Also notices the report said a dozen (12) churches were destroyed, 3200 people were uprooted ---- you kinda just killed all these Serb Camp lies about "200 churches" and hundreds of thousands of people."

Don't confuse the result of March 2004 with overall violance results.

The point is KS, that I would not simply trust Serbian media, just because it's Serbian. Media in EVERY country is very capable of manipulation public oppinion. It's always good to try to find about something from more sources, and then to form an oppinion.

But, let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that you are right, and that some Serbs chased kids into to river with the dog.

Shouldn't those two then be punished for what they did? Well, you can punish the dog too.
In your No. 31 comment you seem to be saying that Serbs were responsable for the violance in 2004, with your statements like "if Serbs didn't drown the kids, violance wouldn't happen", etc.
So, even if we take it that there were two Serbs with the dog, and that they did what you are saying. Should all Serbs pay for the action of those two?

You are probably aware of the charges against Musliu, Limaj, Haradinaj, etc.
I don't want to go into weather they are guilty (personally) or not, as I am not the judge. Whatever their personal guilt is, the fact remains that KLA is responsable for killing of lots of Serb civilians (as you can see from the charges, lots of Albanian civilians, too, for that matter.)
I'm not saying that Limaj did it, or Haradinaj did it, etc. The fact is - KLA did it. And it's dated (as you can see from trials) before Drenica Valley, before anything, Orahovac to name one site, early 1998.
Now, would you ever say that because actions of SOME Albanians (who killed the Serbs), ALL Albanians should have been subjected to violance. That because SOME Albanians commited those crimes, Serbs should have gone, even then, burning houses of ALL Albanians? I'm sure that you won't say that.
Why would you then justify violance against ALL Serbs, even if we take it that kids drowned because of something that TWO Serbs did?

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Trublloni

pre 16 godina

“There will not be any independence for Kosovo. Serbia backed by Russia will make sure of that. All Russia has to do is VETO Kosovo independence in the UN, therefore 1244 STANDS…”
(boris, 4. October 2007 21:51)

- Russia was also against the intervention in 99. And what happened in 99? Also Italy and Greece were against it but it didn’t stop them from joining the bombing. What you have to understand is that international law, or any law for that matter, has always loopholes in it. Especially when you’re the strong one you can bend it and twist it however it suits you.

“Do you thing Albans and Serbs will ever live together in peace whithout hating each other so much. if yes! how? what should be done there in order to have peace between two sides?”
(Besim, 4. October 2007 22:46)

-Albanians and Serbs have been living together as friends and allies for a very long time. That is until Belgrade (not Serbian people but Belgrades “elite diplomats”) noticed that Albanians have a higher birth-rate and decided to expel them from Central Serbia and Kosovo, possibly to Turkey or Albania. This of course created hatred amongst Albanians who took revenge on innocent Serb civilians whenever they got the chance, e.g. WW2. These Serbs then fled to the north and did the same, took revenge on innocent Albanians, who then moved south and did the same etc etc… you get the picture. The same phenomenon happened in 99. This is why today you have over 90% Albanians in Kosovo but none in central Serbia. Although the fact that Kosovo was the poorest region in Yugoslavia, and the Serbs always had the option of moving north, also plays a big role.
Therefore in my opinion Belgrade has to make the right move and admit a few things and apologise.

Anyway just felt I had to comment on those things. Back to the subject. In my opinion the media should NOT ignore such groups. This is not simply a group of armed men like strene says. This is a serious thread to peace and stability in the whole region and therefore ignoring it will just make it worse because one day it will come back and bite you in the arse. But the media should make sure it does not make these illegal groups look like heroes and liberators. Kosovo was liberated in 99, that’s it.


PS: in regards to the status question (which again is not the subject here but what the hell I might as well) I think that Belgrade and Prishtina should make an agreement on creating some kind of confederation. Sign an agreement for maybe 10 years or more and then have a referendum. This will give both sides some more time to join the EU and look at the whole thing with a cool head rather than some kind of romantic patriotism. I think it’s not a question of what people want but what is the best solution. Belgrades “broad autonomy” proposal is a great idea but at least a decade too late. Playing the victim does not help after creating all these wars. People who argue that legally Kosovo can not be taken from Serbia should again not forget that “legally” NATO should have never intervened.

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Niall O'Doherty, Ireland

pre 16 godina

KS, I'm very surprised by your statement regarding the unfortunate children. Fact is, the entire story was made up which was then later verified by several NGO's and the UN. It didnt matter, since the locals engaged in good old fashioned Serb hunting. And then we all wonder why the K-Serbs want no truck with an independent 'Kosova'. well we just got our answer.

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Lorik Jashari

pre 16 godina

we are ready for any attempt of the serbian army and paramilitary to enter again in KOSOVA but dont forget we have also NATO and USA so any attempt to enter KOSOVA will be the most dumbest thing in the world so after 10 december we will declaire once again our INDEPENDENCE so EU and USA will accept and who cares about russia and serbia , and dont forget what President BUSH sad in ALBANIA : KOSOVA WILL BE INDEPENDENT !

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johny

pre 16 godina

I wonder what Czar Lazar troops are. Just the other day their leader stated that they will fight NATO and the Albanians in Kosova/o on a Top-Channel interview.
I also wonder how Serbs think the Albanians would react to threats coming from Serbian ministers that they are going to invade Kosova/o and that they are sending their military in Kosova/o. If 90% of the population despises your troops and your military why are threatening of sending them, if your intentions are not for war.
The of course the ANA and othe acronyms will come to surface. One cannot respond to such threats with flowers. This is the Balkans and we're talking about Serbia. Our houses have been burnt to the ground several times, our children, sisters, mother; brothers killed. We have to find a way to respond to threats and defend ourselves.

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european

pre 16 godina

It seems no space for more "dust under carpet". Albanians simply will not be able to accept any suggestion different of their (excluding) way of thinking. If this is "albanian" national army, why Albania does not determine it's position over this problem. Thus, conclusion can be that terorist groups are not danger for Albania and Albanians, but for the others. KFOR will be safe till keep neutrality. In the moment KFOR takes first step in disarming these groups, escalation will be like 10 years ago. Just in this case Milosevic will not be an excuse!

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KS

pre 16 godina

That they drowned it's true, but in additional investigation of several NGO's it turned out that story about the Serbs with the dog was completely made up.
Things aren't always what they seem.
(Sreten, 5. October 2007 00:17)

Sreten, if you witnessed me killing your father than 10minutes later someone ask "what were you doing when KS killed your father" you would not be able to respond or think bc your in shock.

These kids witnessed their own friends being drowned. I see nothing made up, but why would a man chase kids with a dog (most likely vicious bc kids ran for the water) is what I'm always wondering.

Is it custom to chase kids with dogs in your country?

Also notices the report said a dozen (12) churches were destroyed, 3200 people were uprooted ---- you kinda just killed all these Serb Camp lies about "200 churches" and hundreds of thousands of people.

Thanks

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Delije

pre 16 godina

When serbs support the serb gov, we are radicals, nationalists, ultranationalists. So what are the ana supporters here on this site? I know the answer. ter...

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Bob Petrovich

pre 16 godina

"I don't agree with UNMIK's classification of ANA as a terrorist group. They are not different then our own KLA. Just people wanting their rights.
(veton, 4. October 2007 19:32)


Yes, AKSH are the same kind of terrorist thugs like KLA. And they want their "rights", i.e. share in proceeds from narcotics manufacturing, people smuggling and other criminal activities controlled by KLA.

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Sreten

pre 16 godina

KS.
You should dare too, to question things, and try to find out the truth.
Try by accepting this though. Not everything you hear on media (Albanian, Serbian, American, or whatever other) is true.

Here is a link to official UNMIK archives.

http://www.unmikonline.org/archives/news04_04full.htm#2804

On April 28th UNMIK completed its investigation and released the statement.

"Lack of evidence stalls probe into drowning of 3 Kosovo children, UN mission says

28 April 2004 – An investigation by the United Nations mission in Kosovo into the alleged criminal drowning of three children, which sparked last month's large-scale inter-ethnic violence, has stalled because of a lack of evidence, a spokesperson for the UN police said today.

Neeraj Singh, a spokesman for the police and justice branches of the UN Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK), told a press conference in the capital Pristina the public prosecutor, investigating judge and case investigator believed the evidence did not support "a grounded suspicion of the commission of a criminal act."

"As such, the matter can proceed no further at this time," he said, adding that the investigation "will be revived" should any further "credible evidence" be uncovered.

Nearly nineteen people were killed, hundreds more injured - including soldiers from the Kosovo international force (KFOR) - and more than 3,200 were uprooted from their homes last month following days of clashes between ethnic Albanians and Serbs, the worst violence the province had seen in the five years since the UN assumed administration. In addition to the casualties, more than a dozen Serb churches were destroyed and the homes of at least 100 Serbs were burned.

According to Mr. Singh, the investigation so far determined that six children from Cabra village crossed a bridge in the evening of 16 March and went over to the Zupce side of the Ibar River. About 500 metres downstream from the bridge two of the children briefly separated from the group and continued further downstream.

The four who remained at the location then entered the river, which was swollen and turbulent. Only one of them, 13-year-old Fitim Veseli, reached the other side of the river. The body of Egzon Deliu, 12, was found in the night of 16 March and that of Avni Veseli, 11, the next morning. One child, Florent Veseli, 9, is still missing.

The only survivor, Fitim, told investigators that two young male Serbs in their early 20's emerged, along with a dog, from one of the houses in Zupce at the top of an escarpment and approached the boys. Fear of the dog prompted the four boys to enter the river.

The spokesperson said there were "very significant" inconsistencies in the accounts given by the child during two separate interviews, and a lack of corroboration of his story. "In fact, it is logically at odds in several respects with other evidence," Mr. Singh said."

So, what the hell where UNMIK police and TMK searching the rivers for , KS?
For bodies of drowned children of course. Only the part that Serbs were responsable for their drowning was completely made up.

"The spokesperson said there were "very significant" inconsistencies in the accounts given by the child during two separate interviews, and a lack of corroboration of his story. "In fact, it is logically at odds in several respects with other evidence,"

That they drowned it's true, but in additional investigation of several NGO's it turned out that story about the Serbs with the dog was completely made up.
Things aren't always what they seem.

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KS

pre 16 godina

Jovan how dare you make such a remark. If the Serbs didn't let two kids drown March 24th would have never happened. If the kids never existed than what the hell where UNMIK police and TMK searching the rivers for? Missing voting ballots?

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Besim

pre 16 godina

it's is pretty hard to look for the solution between serbs and kosovars.

Serbs in one side think that: kosovo is theirs because they builded churches there and they have cultural ties to that land


Kosovars: believe kosovo is theirs and they are descendants of Yllirian who always had been in the rigon of balkan even before slavs came to balkan......

SERBS
ALBANIAN
there are many things that both sides have in common

Sebs have: head 2 eye 2 hands 2 legs and so on

Albanians have : head 2 eye 2 hands 2 legs and so on

in other words BOTH SIDE ARE HUMAN why do you guys fight and hate so much...

My question is to both sides Serbs and Albans:

Do you thing Albans and Serbs will ever live together in peace whithout hating each other so much. if yes! how? what should be done there in order to have peace between two sides?

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Johnny Rotten

pre 16 godina

Terrorism - in all forms and manifestations - must be CRUSHED! There can be no negotiations with fanatics who are hellbent on their mono-maniacal goals (e.g. "independence," "jihad," or "liberation"). The rest of the world is seeing (and will see) the real consequences of their dangerous policies which support these entities, many of which will come to haunt them! What is happening (and what happened) in Kosovo and Bosnia (cf. Mujahadeen, thwarted attack on the US embassy in Vienna, Fort Dix, etc.) is the TRUE FACE of it. We have reached a critical point in world affairs. The tide, however, is turning: haters of peace and humanity beware, the bell tolls for thee!

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 0
boris

pre 16 godina

There will not be any independence for Kosovo. Serbia backed by Russia will make sure of that. All Russia has to do is VETO Kosovo independence in the UN, therefore 1244 STANDS, in which case 999 Serbian police can enter northern Kosovo LEGALLY to protect Serbs. If they are attacked, they CAN and WILL defend themselves. Against whomever that may be. Remember, RUSSIA drew a red line and will NOT lose. Things have changed since '99. In Russia's favor, and it looks to be going in their favor for many more years to come. The U.S. will only get weaker with all their wars. Russia could even arm Serbia with the most sophisticated weaponry to defend against Nato even if worst comes to worst. This is all about Russia VS US right now. The game has changed.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

"I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets.
(Agim Elshani, 4. October 2007 13:00)"

once again we can see an indicator for what I have assumed here, we are dealing with some teenager-boys here, ...this Agim is impressed by military-equipment...

boy, ...this is no action-movie..

and by the way: didn´t the socalled "RTK" play an important role in spreading the false-information of Serbs hunting albanian kids with their dogs? didn´t that lead to the 2004 pogroms?

perhaps this propaganda-channel should be closed by the UNMIK-authorities...

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sreten

pre 16 godina

It seems to me that quality of comments are detorieting on B92. People don't even bother reading articles any more, and responding to what is actually being said.
Most comments here are like this:
"How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.
(Afrim Hoxha, 4. October 2007 14:39) "
or
"I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets. Actually they said or I should say one of them said that; they are counterforce to Car Lazar Guards and that is all.
(Agim Elshani, 4. October 2007 13:00) "

Article is not about weather or not ANA is a terrorist group. Same goes for Car Lazar Guards.
One could debate that for a long time like this.
"They have taken responsibility for several bombing incidents in Kosovo since then." while Car Lazar Guards did not plant any bombs, therefore, they are not terrorist...and so on, and so forth.
Nor it's about weather classification by UNMIK calling ANA terrorist organization is correct or not. This is not a subject of article.
The fact is that there is nothing that can legally justify existance of either ANA or Car Lazar Guards.
Terrorist?
Let's leave it alone. Paramilitaries?
For sure.
The real question raised in this article is if paramilitaries should be interviewed on the TV, and given the chance to promote their views?
Article starts:

"He was reacting to last night's broadcast by Kosovo's public television of an interview with a group the UN designated to be terrorist."

Again, terrorist, forget about it for now.
They are paramilitaries for sure.
Should Car Lazar Guards be brought to any TV channel in Serbia, not to mention state TV, and interviewed, allowing them to reach larger audiance?
I personally, would not feel good about such thing. It would be a clear sign of total decline of any legality in society.
Does it mean that any group of people that has weapons should start parading on the TV screens?
And why? Because they have weapons? Are people with guns ones that we should give opportunity to speak out their minds? And how did they deserve this right? Because they are armed?
Will this be an incentive to other groups to arm themselves in other to be heard?
Those are the real questions here, and the way debate should be going. But, we see very little of that.
What?, or who is a terrorist?, is being debated here instead.

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veton

pre 16 godina

I don't agree with UNMIK's classification of ANA as a terrorist group. They are not different then our own KLA. Just people wanting their rights.

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Klaudian

pre 16 godina

In other words the increase in Serbian interior ministry troops is justified. I dont like any form of repression but terrorism must be combatted.
(bganon, 4. October 2007 11:31)

What about the Prince Lazar Guard and Karadzic, Mladic and thousands of other populating nowadays Belgrade? What about Kostunica with the AK47?

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smile

pre 16 godina

"serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing"

you can have what you like but something that helps with law and order in kosovo one presumes would be better for you than these clowns regulating traffic?
Anyway, if those tsar lazar whatever even thought about putting up road blocks anywhere in serbia they would be dealt with really quickly by our coppers.
So why the comparision, ana, lazar, whatnot. just take care of what needs to be taken care of down your end or you're not serious and reliable.
Does kps have any backbone at all as a police force? are they really a police force? There's these ninja wannabes harassing citizens kps is thre to protect, what is kps doing about it? This must be your number one question today, forget status. Status is abstract, this is real.
These "anas" are doing you no favors. This time no serbs will come retaliating, they're sitting tight around bujanovac. So in the end your "action" will not be obscured with "reaction" like in 1999. no favors whatsoever.

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Mike

pre 16 godina

I sincerely hope the US government hascontingency plans for what happens after Kosovo. Does KFOR have a mandate to neutralize this threat? Will ANA also target Pristina forces after they make a negotiated settlement, claiming they "sold" Albanian interests out to the Serbs and Russians?

My guess is that this group will try to see how far it can go before a retaliation ensues. No doubt the stories we've been hearing over the past few months of military coordination between NATO and VS will be used in driving this threat out of Serbia Proper. The Macedonian government also needs to take a more pro-active position against ANA since Skoplje's relationship with the Albanian minority could deteriorate at any minute. Sooner or later, the Western powers that are determining the fate of the Balkans will have to realize that groups like the ANA pose threats to the entire regional stability of the area and need to be targetted with the same degree of determination as the Taliban and al Qaida. This is Serbia's Kosovo's Macedonia's and the US's joint problem.

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Roger7

pre 16 godina

"Second: security in the region is threatened by Serbia's claims of sovereignty over the region."

Yesterday we read..."Earlier today, Kosovo Prime Minister Agim Ceku’s political adviser, Azem
Vlasi, said on that should Kosovo remain under Serbian sovereignty, it would be “primarily detrimental for Serbia.”

Mr. Vlasi acknowledges Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo, therefore it must be fact.

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Kreshnik Bejko

pre 16 godina

bgagnon wrote:
However, the fact that terrorist groups are 'patrolling' Presevo etc shows that the Serbian police's estimate on the security of the region is true
-----------------------------

First: do not confuse Podujevo with Presevo

Second: security in the region is threatened by Serbia's claims of sovereignty over the region.

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CoscoVo

pre 16 godina

Dardan, you talked to Milosevic personally? Where did you guys meet? Did he know you are Albanian? How did you get into conversation with him about this?

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CoscoVo

pre 16 godina

This is the problem when you have separatist militia leaders in government. They only know one way of dealing with things - terror. What do you expect from them? Just because you put them in a suit will not change their mentality. NATO/UN was so wrong in setting these ex-guerillas up in their proxy government. Anyway, this is just another plus for Belgrades arguement. We'll see how the IC reacts to this.

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Ratko

pre 16 godina

"How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.
(Afrim Hoxha, 4. October 2007 14:39) "

afrim,

There is one big difference. These albanians are terrorists!

teni,
Even if you were able to steal our land you wouldn't stop there. That is a big problem!

Funny how nato will deal with these terrorists "when" they find them. It's really not that hard to find them. Just ask ceku and he will tell you.

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Dardan

pre 16 godina

Slobodan Milosevic: 'We know how to handle these murderers, these rapists, these criminals.' He said, 'We've done this before.' I said, 'Well, when?' He said, 'In Drenica in 1946.' And I said, 'What did you do?' He said, 'We killed them.' He said, 'We killed them all.’

Based on the comments above, Slobo is alive and doing very well in Serbia…

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lids

pre 16 godina

That`s just albanians showing little muscle in case they don`t get what they want.And praying that Serbians would react.Hell no-terrorist are so popular now will let the nations in wars against terrorist everywhere take ovet this one too.

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smileforme

pre 16 godina

they are playing a dangerous game when it comes to albanian interests. this is a naive attempt to scare the ic into recognizing kosovo or else. but what guarantees the ic that it will stop there, that there won't be threats of violence over macedonia or montenegro. so the ic will have to think hard about everyone's future in the balkans and what to in fact do with kosovo. i think albanians publicize this on purpose. but the sword as ever cuts both ways. albanians are making themselves look very unreliable. i'm not gonna want to raise anyone's blood pressure here and taunt but it does look like a desparate tactic

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Afrim Hoxha

pre 16 godina

How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.

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teni

pre 16 godina

This is what you get when you leave things pending. The longer the status of Kosova is undecided the more attractive groups like these start to look. It provides an alternative way for people to vent their frustration. Doing what Kate suggests would only make them more powerful and the only people that can deal with them effectively are the K-Albanians themselves. (I do not support them at all now, and neither do the overwhelming majority of Albanians, but they would become a lot more palatable if the Serbs army intervened. In any case once Kosova gets its independence these groups will lose their raison d'etre and will be controlled. Is that simple.

Preporučujem 7 Ne preporučujem 2
lili

pre 16 godina

oh yes ,kate!
Did you advice miloshevic too to act when kla appairs? sure he did as you say and did you see the result:all albanians gathering around kla...
so let's do as you say and you will seeif albanians will join serbia or not!

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 2
Igor

pre 16 godina

I am sick and tired of these groups in and around KiM.
Where do these Albanina extremists and terrorists stop? They are the cause of all instability in that region. When they don't get what they want, then they to pretend to be some freedom fighters, but they are far from that. They are only terrorists and there is no other way of dealing with them, because we will be facing these terrorists for years to come unless we deal with them now. Let the Serbs patroll and control these islamic fundamentalist that threaten our civilized world.

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 7
Agim Elshani

pre 16 godina

I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets. Actually they said or I should say one of them said that; they are counterforce to Car Lazar Guards and that is all.

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albano

pre 16 godina

"EA - I wonder how other countries such as the US might 'neutralise' ..."

Kate , you forgot only one think that is US , and you are SERBIA, is no need to explaine more to you I guess

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 3
EA

pre 16 godina

The only way to neutralize this groups is giving a real chance to peace through the implemetation of Ahtisari Plan and the support for the Friendship Pact between Kosova and Serbia. Albanians living in Podujeva, Bujanovc and Medvegja should have the same rights envisaged for the Serbian minority in Kosova. That is the 21st Century Solutions. Otherwise the conflict will go on and on and it will not spare the Belgrade itself. Then the Serbian government will be looking for more "compromises" and "negotiation". The time is now for a realistic settlement.

Preporučujem 9 Ne preporučujem 6
kate

pre 16 godina

EA - I wonder how other countries such as the US might 'neutralise' armed groups patrolling the streets of one of their provinces, regardless of its status as international protectorate. Certainly not by giving them what they want, as you suggest!

The UN should take up its responsibilities and nip this in the bud now.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 2
Stevo

pre 16 godina

If the ANA terrorists want to go 'legit', the model is:

- get some money together (extortion/'tax' of their own people, drugs, whatever the source may be);
- use the money to fund lobby groups to pay off gullible US politicians - the 'usual suspects' - who are happy to take the money and sing whatever song is required and not question who it is that they are representing.
- provoke incidents of violence that cause retaliation;
- feign victimization and take terrorism home by putting their own family at risk by using their own house as a base;
- get the government of the US on your side by paying your US stooge politicians more money (see second point of this list);
- when the previous step is in place, the 'terrorist' tag will be removed and police uniforms will be provided for the 'former' terrorists;
- voila! Terrorists-to-'police force' and 'legitimacy' in a few easy steps! And the great thing is that the ex-terrorists who are 'police' can then cover up further acts of terrorism in the future! They can even add insult to their victims by having their terror leader wear a suit and shake hands with Western politicians safe in the knowledge that he will not face arrest.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 3
bganon

pre 16 godina

I dont know what Kosovo Television hopped to achieve by showing this.

However, the fact that terrorist groups are 'patrolling' Presevo etc shows that the Serbian police's estimate on the security of the region is true.

In other words the increase in Serbian interior ministry troops is justified. I dont like any form of repression but terrorism must be combatted.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 2
Stevo

pre 16 godina

If the ANA terrorists want to go 'legit', the model is:

- get some money together (extortion/'tax' of their own people, drugs, whatever the source may be);
- use the money to fund lobby groups to pay off gullible US politicians - the 'usual suspects' - who are happy to take the money and sing whatever song is required and not question who it is that they are representing.
- provoke incidents of violence that cause retaliation;
- feign victimization and take terrorism home by putting their own family at risk by using their own house as a base;
- get the government of the US on your side by paying your US stooge politicians more money (see second point of this list);
- when the previous step is in place, the 'terrorist' tag will be removed and police uniforms will be provided for the 'former' terrorists;
- voila! Terrorists-to-'police force' and 'legitimacy' in a few easy steps! And the great thing is that the ex-terrorists who are 'police' can then cover up further acts of terrorism in the future! They can even add insult to their victims by having their terror leader wear a suit and shake hands with Western politicians safe in the knowledge that he will not face arrest.

Preporučujem 19 Ne preporučujem 3
Igor

pre 16 godina

I am sick and tired of these groups in and around KiM.
Where do these Albanina extremists and terrorists stop? They are the cause of all instability in that region. When they don't get what they want, then they to pretend to be some freedom fighters, but they are far from that. They are only terrorists and there is no other way of dealing with them, because we will be facing these terrorists for years to come unless we deal with them now. Let the Serbs patroll and control these islamic fundamentalist that threaten our civilized world.

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 7
Afrim Hoxha

pre 16 godina

How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 2
Agim Elshani

pre 16 godina

I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets. Actually they said or I should say one of them said that; they are counterforce to Car Lazar Guards and that is all.

Preporučujem 12 Ne preporučujem 5
CoscoVo

pre 16 godina

This is the problem when you have separatist militia leaders in government. They only know one way of dealing with things - terror. What do you expect from them? Just because you put them in a suit will not change their mentality. NATO/UN was so wrong in setting these ex-guerillas up in their proxy government. Anyway, this is just another plus for Belgrades arguement. We'll see how the IC reacts to this.

Preporučujem 11 Ne preporučujem 2
bganon

pre 16 godina

I dont know what Kosovo Television hopped to achieve by showing this.

However, the fact that terrorist groups are 'patrolling' Presevo etc shows that the Serbian police's estimate on the security of the region is true.

In other words the increase in Serbian interior ministry troops is justified. I dont like any form of repression but terrorism must be combatted.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 2
kate

pre 16 godina

EA - I wonder how other countries such as the US might 'neutralise' armed groups patrolling the streets of one of their provinces, regardless of its status as international protectorate. Certainly not by giving them what they want, as you suggest!

The UN should take up its responsibilities and nip this in the bud now.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 2
Ratko

pre 16 godina

"How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.
(Afrim Hoxha, 4. October 2007 14:39) "

afrim,

There is one big difference. These albanians are terrorists!

teni,
Even if you were able to steal our land you wouldn't stop there. That is a big problem!

Funny how nato will deal with these terrorists "when" they find them. It's really not that hard to find them. Just ask ceku and he will tell you.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 5
EA

pre 16 godina

The only way to neutralize this groups is giving a real chance to peace through the implemetation of Ahtisari Plan and the support for the Friendship Pact between Kosova and Serbia. Albanians living in Podujeva, Bujanovc and Medvegja should have the same rights envisaged for the Serbian minority in Kosova. That is the 21st Century Solutions. Otherwise the conflict will go on and on and it will not spare the Belgrade itself. Then the Serbian government will be looking for more "compromises" and "negotiation". The time is now for a realistic settlement.

Preporučujem 9 Ne preporučujem 6
CoscoVo

pre 16 godina

Dardan, you talked to Milosevic personally? Where did you guys meet? Did he know you are Albanian? How did you get into conversation with him about this?

Preporučujem 9 Ne preporučujem 1
teni

pre 16 godina

This is what you get when you leave things pending. The longer the status of Kosova is undecided the more attractive groups like these start to look. It provides an alternative way for people to vent their frustration. Doing what Kate suggests would only make them more powerful and the only people that can deal with them effectively are the K-Albanians themselves. (I do not support them at all now, and neither do the overwhelming majority of Albanians, but they would become a lot more palatable if the Serbs army intervened. In any case once Kosova gets its independence these groups will lose their raison d'etre and will be controlled. Is that simple.

Preporučujem 7 Ne preporučujem 2
Roger7

pre 16 godina

"Second: security in the region is threatened by Serbia's claims of sovereignty over the region."

Yesterday we read..."Earlier today, Kosovo Prime Minister Agim Ceku’s political adviser, Azem
Vlasi, said on that should Kosovo remain under Serbian sovereignty, it would be “primarily detrimental for Serbia.”

Mr. Vlasi acknowledges Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo, therefore it must be fact.

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Delije

pre 16 godina

When serbs support the serb gov, we are radicals, nationalists, ultranationalists. So what are the ana supporters here on this site? I know the answer. ter...

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Kreshnik Bejko

pre 16 godina

bgagnon wrote:
However, the fact that terrorist groups are 'patrolling' Presevo etc shows that the Serbian police's estimate on the security of the region is true
-----------------------------

First: do not confuse Podujevo with Presevo

Second: security in the region is threatened by Serbia's claims of sovereignty over the region.

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 2
Mike

pre 16 godina

I sincerely hope the US government hascontingency plans for what happens after Kosovo. Does KFOR have a mandate to neutralize this threat? Will ANA also target Pristina forces after they make a negotiated settlement, claiming they "sold" Albanian interests out to the Serbs and Russians?

My guess is that this group will try to see how far it can go before a retaliation ensues. No doubt the stories we've been hearing over the past few months of military coordination between NATO and VS will be used in driving this threat out of Serbia Proper. The Macedonian government also needs to take a more pro-active position against ANA since Skoplje's relationship with the Albanian minority could deteriorate at any minute. Sooner or later, the Western powers that are determining the fate of the Balkans will have to realize that groups like the ANA pose threats to the entire regional stability of the area and need to be targetted with the same degree of determination as the Taliban and al Qaida. This is Serbia's Kosovo's Macedonia's and the US's joint problem.

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 1
sreten

pre 16 godina

It seems to me that quality of comments are detorieting on B92. People don't even bother reading articles any more, and responding to what is actually being said.
Most comments here are like this:
"How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.
(Afrim Hoxha, 4. October 2007 14:39) "
or
"I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets. Actually they said or I should say one of them said that; they are counterforce to Car Lazar Guards and that is all.
(Agim Elshani, 4. October 2007 13:00) "

Article is not about weather or not ANA is a terrorist group. Same goes for Car Lazar Guards.
One could debate that for a long time like this.
"They have taken responsibility for several bombing incidents in Kosovo since then." while Car Lazar Guards did not plant any bombs, therefore, they are not terrorist...and so on, and so forth.
Nor it's about weather classification by UNMIK calling ANA terrorist organization is correct or not. This is not a subject of article.
The fact is that there is nothing that can legally justify existance of either ANA or Car Lazar Guards.
Terrorist?
Let's leave it alone. Paramilitaries?
For sure.
The real question raised in this article is if paramilitaries should be interviewed on the TV, and given the chance to promote their views?
Article starts:

"He was reacting to last night's broadcast by Kosovo's public television of an interview with a group the UN designated to be terrorist."

Again, terrorist, forget about it for now.
They are paramilitaries for sure.
Should Car Lazar Guards be brought to any TV channel in Serbia, not to mention state TV, and interviewed, allowing them to reach larger audiance?
I personally, would not feel good about such thing. It would be a clear sign of total decline of any legality in society.
Does it mean that any group of people that has weapons should start parading on the TV screens?
And why? Because they have weapons? Are people with guns ones that we should give opportunity to speak out their minds? And how did they deserve this right? Because they are armed?
Will this be an incentive to other groups to arm themselves in other to be heard?
Those are the real questions here, and the way debate should be going. But, we see very little of that.
What?, or who is a terrorist?, is being debated here instead.

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 0
Bob Petrovich

pre 16 godina

"I don't agree with UNMIK's classification of ANA as a terrorist group. They are not different then our own KLA. Just people wanting their rights.
(veton, 4. October 2007 19:32)


Yes, AKSH are the same kind of terrorist thugs like KLA. And they want their "rights", i.e. share in proceeds from narcotics manufacturing, people smuggling and other criminal activities controlled by KLA.

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 0
albano

pre 16 godina

"EA - I wonder how other countries such as the US might 'neutralise' ..."

Kate , you forgot only one think that is US , and you are SERBIA, is no need to explaine more to you I guess

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Dardan

pre 16 godina

Slobodan Milosevic: 'We know how to handle these murderers, these rapists, these criminals.' He said, 'We've done this before.' I said, 'Well, when?' He said, 'In Drenica in 1946.' And I said, 'What did you do?' He said, 'We killed them.' He said, 'We killed them all.’

Based on the comments above, Slobo is alive and doing very well in Serbia…

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Klaudian

pre 16 godina

In other words the increase in Serbian interior ministry troops is justified. I dont like any form of repression but terrorism must be combatted.
(bganon, 4. October 2007 11:31)

What about the Prince Lazar Guard and Karadzic, Mladic and thousands of other populating nowadays Belgrade? What about Kostunica with the AK47?

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 2
Sreten

pre 16 godina

KS.
You should dare too, to question things, and try to find out the truth.
Try by accepting this though. Not everything you hear on media (Albanian, Serbian, American, or whatever other) is true.

Here is a link to official UNMIK archives.

http://www.unmikonline.org/archives/news04_04full.htm#2804

On April 28th UNMIK completed its investigation and released the statement.

"Lack of evidence stalls probe into drowning of 3 Kosovo children, UN mission says

28 April 2004 – An investigation by the United Nations mission in Kosovo into the alleged criminal drowning of three children, which sparked last month's large-scale inter-ethnic violence, has stalled because of a lack of evidence, a spokesperson for the UN police said today.

Neeraj Singh, a spokesman for the police and justice branches of the UN Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK), told a press conference in the capital Pristina the public prosecutor, investigating judge and case investigator believed the evidence did not support "a grounded suspicion of the commission of a criminal act."

"As such, the matter can proceed no further at this time," he said, adding that the investigation "will be revived" should any further "credible evidence" be uncovered.

Nearly nineteen people were killed, hundreds more injured - including soldiers from the Kosovo international force (KFOR) - and more than 3,200 were uprooted from their homes last month following days of clashes between ethnic Albanians and Serbs, the worst violence the province had seen in the five years since the UN assumed administration. In addition to the casualties, more than a dozen Serb churches were destroyed and the homes of at least 100 Serbs were burned.

According to Mr. Singh, the investigation so far determined that six children from Cabra village crossed a bridge in the evening of 16 March and went over to the Zupce side of the Ibar River. About 500 metres downstream from the bridge two of the children briefly separated from the group and continued further downstream.

The four who remained at the location then entered the river, which was swollen and turbulent. Only one of them, 13-year-old Fitim Veseli, reached the other side of the river. The body of Egzon Deliu, 12, was found in the night of 16 March and that of Avni Veseli, 11, the next morning. One child, Florent Veseli, 9, is still missing.

The only survivor, Fitim, told investigators that two young male Serbs in their early 20's emerged, along with a dog, from one of the houses in Zupce at the top of an escarpment and approached the boys. Fear of the dog prompted the four boys to enter the river.

The spokesperson said there were "very significant" inconsistencies in the accounts given by the child during two separate interviews, and a lack of corroboration of his story. "In fact, it is logically at odds in several respects with other evidence," Mr. Singh said."

So, what the hell where UNMIK police and TMK searching the rivers for , KS?
For bodies of drowned children of course. Only the part that Serbs were responsable for their drowning was completely made up.

"The spokesperson said there were "very significant" inconsistencies in the accounts given by the child during two separate interviews, and a lack of corroboration of his story. "In fact, it is logically at odds in several respects with other evidence,"

That they drowned it's true, but in additional investigation of several NGO's it turned out that story about the Serbs with the dog was completely made up.
Things aren't always what they seem.

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lili

pre 16 godina

oh yes ,kate!
Did you advice miloshevic too to act when kla appairs? sure he did as you say and did you see the result:all albanians gathering around kla...
so let's do as you say and you will seeif albanians will join serbia or not!

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lids

pre 16 godina

That`s just albanians showing little muscle in case they don`t get what they want.And praying that Serbians would react.Hell no-terrorist are so popular now will let the nations in wars against terrorist everywhere take ovet this one too.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

"I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets.
(Agim Elshani, 4. October 2007 13:00)"

once again we can see an indicator for what I have assumed here, we are dealing with some teenager-boys here, ...this Agim is impressed by military-equipment...

boy, ...this is no action-movie..

and by the way: didn´t the socalled "RTK" play an important role in spreading the false-information of Serbs hunting albanian kids with their dogs? didn´t that lead to the 2004 pogroms?

perhaps this propaganda-channel should be closed by the UNMIK-authorities...

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Johnny Rotten

pre 16 godina

Terrorism - in all forms and manifestations - must be CRUSHED! There can be no negotiations with fanatics who are hellbent on their mono-maniacal goals (e.g. "independence," "jihad," or "liberation"). The rest of the world is seeing (and will see) the real consequences of their dangerous policies which support these entities, many of which will come to haunt them! What is happening (and what happened) in Kosovo and Bosnia (cf. Mujahadeen, thwarted attack on the US embassy in Vienna, Fort Dix, etc.) is the TRUE FACE of it. We have reached a critical point in world affairs. The tide, however, is turning: haters of peace and humanity beware, the bell tolls for thee!

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boris

pre 16 godina

There will not be any independence for Kosovo. Serbia backed by Russia will make sure of that. All Russia has to do is VETO Kosovo independence in the UN, therefore 1244 STANDS, in which case 999 Serbian police can enter northern Kosovo LEGALLY to protect Serbs. If they are attacked, they CAN and WILL defend themselves. Against whomever that may be. Remember, RUSSIA drew a red line and will NOT lose. Things have changed since '99. In Russia's favor, and it looks to be going in their favor for many more years to come. The U.S. will only get weaker with all their wars. Russia could even arm Serbia with the most sophisticated weaponry to defend against Nato even if worst comes to worst. This is all about Russia VS US right now. The game has changed.

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Besim

pre 16 godina

it's is pretty hard to look for the solution between serbs and kosovars.

Serbs in one side think that: kosovo is theirs because they builded churches there and they have cultural ties to that land


Kosovars: believe kosovo is theirs and they are descendants of Yllirian who always had been in the rigon of balkan even before slavs came to balkan......

SERBS
ALBANIAN
there are many things that both sides have in common

Sebs have: head 2 eye 2 hands 2 legs and so on

Albanians have : head 2 eye 2 hands 2 legs and so on

in other words BOTH SIDE ARE HUMAN why do you guys fight and hate so much...

My question is to both sides Serbs and Albans:

Do you thing Albans and Serbs will ever live together in peace whithout hating each other so much. if yes! how? what should be done there in order to have peace between two sides?

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smileforme

pre 16 godina

they are playing a dangerous game when it comes to albanian interests. this is a naive attempt to scare the ic into recognizing kosovo or else. but what guarantees the ic that it will stop there, that there won't be threats of violence over macedonia or montenegro. so the ic will have to think hard about everyone's future in the balkans and what to in fact do with kosovo. i think albanians publicize this on purpose. but the sword as ever cuts both ways. albanians are making themselves look very unreliable. i'm not gonna want to raise anyone's blood pressure here and taunt but it does look like a desparate tactic

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smile

pre 16 godina

"serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing"

you can have what you like but something that helps with law and order in kosovo one presumes would be better for you than these clowns regulating traffic?
Anyway, if those tsar lazar whatever even thought about putting up road blocks anywhere in serbia they would be dealt with really quickly by our coppers.
So why the comparision, ana, lazar, whatnot. just take care of what needs to be taken care of down your end or you're not serious and reliable.
Does kps have any backbone at all as a police force? are they really a police force? There's these ninja wannabes harassing citizens kps is thre to protect, what is kps doing about it? This must be your number one question today, forget status. Status is abstract, this is real.
These "anas" are doing you no favors. This time no serbs will come retaliating, they're sitting tight around bujanovac. So in the end your "action" will not be obscured with "reaction" like in 1999. no favors whatsoever.

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veton

pre 16 godina

I don't agree with UNMIK's classification of ANA as a terrorist group. They are not different then our own KLA. Just people wanting their rights.

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KS

pre 16 godina

Jovan how dare you make such a remark. If the Serbs didn't let two kids drown March 24th would have never happened. If the kids never existed than what the hell where UNMIK police and TMK searching the rivers for? Missing voting ballots?

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european

pre 16 godina

It seems no space for more "dust under carpet". Albanians simply will not be able to accept any suggestion different of their (excluding) way of thinking. If this is "albanian" national army, why Albania does not determine it's position over this problem. Thus, conclusion can be that terorist groups are not danger for Albania and Albanians, but for the others. KFOR will be safe till keep neutrality. In the moment KFOR takes first step in disarming these groups, escalation will be like 10 years ago. Just in this case Milosevic will not be an excuse!

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Niall O'Doherty, Ireland

pre 16 godina

KS, I'm very surprised by your statement regarding the unfortunate children. Fact is, the entire story was made up which was then later verified by several NGO's and the UN. It didnt matter, since the locals engaged in good old fashioned Serb hunting. And then we all wonder why the K-Serbs want no truck with an independent 'Kosova'. well we just got our answer.

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KS

pre 16 godina

That they drowned it's true, but in additional investigation of several NGO's it turned out that story about the Serbs with the dog was completely made up.
Things aren't always what they seem.
(Sreten, 5. October 2007 00:17)

Sreten, if you witnessed me killing your father than 10minutes later someone ask "what were you doing when KS killed your father" you would not be able to respond or think bc your in shock.

These kids witnessed their own friends being drowned. I see nothing made up, but why would a man chase kids with a dog (most likely vicious bc kids ran for the water) is what I'm always wondering.

Is it custom to chase kids with dogs in your country?

Also notices the report said a dozen (12) churches were destroyed, 3200 people were uprooted ---- you kinda just killed all these Serb Camp lies about "200 churches" and hundreds of thousands of people.

Thanks

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johny

pre 16 godina

I wonder what Czar Lazar troops are. Just the other day their leader stated that they will fight NATO and the Albanians in Kosova/o on a Top-Channel interview.
I also wonder how Serbs think the Albanians would react to threats coming from Serbian ministers that they are going to invade Kosova/o and that they are sending their military in Kosova/o. If 90% of the population despises your troops and your military why are threatening of sending them, if your intentions are not for war.
The of course the ANA and othe acronyms will come to surface. One cannot respond to such threats with flowers. This is the Balkans and we're talking about Serbia. Our houses have been burnt to the ground several times, our children, sisters, mother; brothers killed. We have to find a way to respond to threats and defend ourselves.

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Lorik Jashari

pre 16 godina

we are ready for any attempt of the serbian army and paramilitary to enter again in KOSOVA but dont forget we have also NATO and USA so any attempt to enter KOSOVA will be the most dumbest thing in the world so after 10 december we will declaire once again our INDEPENDENCE so EU and USA will accept and who cares about russia and serbia , and dont forget what President BUSH sad in ALBANIA : KOSOVA WILL BE INDEPENDENT !

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Trublloni

pre 16 godina

“There will not be any independence for Kosovo. Serbia backed by Russia will make sure of that. All Russia has to do is VETO Kosovo independence in the UN, therefore 1244 STANDS…”
(boris, 4. October 2007 21:51)

- Russia was also against the intervention in 99. And what happened in 99? Also Italy and Greece were against it but it didn’t stop them from joining the bombing. What you have to understand is that international law, or any law for that matter, has always loopholes in it. Especially when you’re the strong one you can bend it and twist it however it suits you.

“Do you thing Albans and Serbs will ever live together in peace whithout hating each other so much. if yes! how? what should be done there in order to have peace between two sides?”
(Besim, 4. October 2007 22:46)

-Albanians and Serbs have been living together as friends and allies for a very long time. That is until Belgrade (not Serbian people but Belgrades “elite diplomats”) noticed that Albanians have a higher birth-rate and decided to expel them from Central Serbia and Kosovo, possibly to Turkey or Albania. This of course created hatred amongst Albanians who took revenge on innocent Serb civilians whenever they got the chance, e.g. WW2. These Serbs then fled to the north and did the same, took revenge on innocent Albanians, who then moved south and did the same etc etc… you get the picture. The same phenomenon happened in 99. This is why today you have over 90% Albanians in Kosovo but none in central Serbia. Although the fact that Kosovo was the poorest region in Yugoslavia, and the Serbs always had the option of moving north, also plays a big role.
Therefore in my opinion Belgrade has to make the right move and admit a few things and apologise.

Anyway just felt I had to comment on those things. Back to the subject. In my opinion the media should NOT ignore such groups. This is not simply a group of armed men like strene says. This is a serious thread to peace and stability in the whole region and therefore ignoring it will just make it worse because one day it will come back and bite you in the arse. But the media should make sure it does not make these illegal groups look like heroes and liberators. Kosovo was liberated in 99, that’s it.


PS: in regards to the status question (which again is not the subject here but what the hell I might as well) I think that Belgrade and Prishtina should make an agreement on creating some kind of confederation. Sign an agreement for maybe 10 years or more and then have a referendum. This will give both sides some more time to join the EU and look at the whole thing with a cool head rather than some kind of romantic patriotism. I think it’s not a question of what people want but what is the best solution. Belgrades “broad autonomy” proposal is a great idea but at least a decade too late. Playing the victim does not help after creating all these wars. People who argue that legally Kosovo can not be taken from Serbia should again not forget that “legally” NATO should have never intervened.

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sreten

pre 16 godina

KS.
As you can see from comment No. 39, the Irish dare to question, too.
It's been well known, KS.
In fact the reporter was under investigation himself, for false reporting.

Here is another link that will show you that Canadians dare to question, too.
It's dated April 08, 2004, and published in The National Post.

http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=article&articleid=7427

"The media
reported that four Albanian boys had been chased into the river Ibar in
Mitrovica by at least two Serbs and a dog (the dog's ethnic affiliation was
not reported).Three of the boys drowned and one escaped to the other side.
Immediately, thousands of Albanians mobilized and concentrated in the area
of the divided city. Attacks on Serbs took place throughout the province
resulting in an estimated 30 killed and 600 wounded. Thirty Serbian
Christian Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed, more than 300
homes were burnt to the ground and six Serbian villages cleansed of their
occupants. One hundred and fifty international peacekeepers were injured. "

Then it goes to say:

"Totally ignored in North America were the numerous statements from
impartial sources that said there was no incident between the Serbs, the
dog and the Albanian boys. NATO Police spokesman Derek Chappell stated on
March 16 that it was "definitely not true" that the boys had been chased
into the river by Serbs. Chappell went on to say that the surviving boy
had told his parents that they had entered the river alone and that three of
his friends had been swept away by the current. Admiral Gregory Johnson,
the overall NATO commander, further stated that the ensuing clashes were
"orchestrated and well-planned ethnic cleansing" by the Kosovo-Albanians.
Those Serbs forced to leave joined the 200,000 who had been cleansed from
the province since NATO's "humanitarian" bombing in 1999. "

Now, pay attention to the last sentence here.
Serbs that had to leave joined 200,000 who already left before March 2004.
So, I'm not sure what you mean when you say:

"Also notices the report said a dozen (12) churches were destroyed, 3200 people were uprooted ---- you kinda just killed all these Serb Camp lies about "200 churches" and hundreds of thousands of people."

Don't confuse the result of March 2004 with overall violance results.

The point is KS, that I would not simply trust Serbian media, just because it's Serbian. Media in EVERY country is very capable of manipulation public oppinion. It's always good to try to find about something from more sources, and then to form an oppinion.

But, let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that you are right, and that some Serbs chased kids into to river with the dog.

Shouldn't those two then be punished for what they did? Well, you can punish the dog too.
In your No. 31 comment you seem to be saying that Serbs were responsable for the violance in 2004, with your statements like "if Serbs didn't drown the kids, violance wouldn't happen", etc.
So, even if we take it that there were two Serbs with the dog, and that they did what you are saying. Should all Serbs pay for the action of those two?

You are probably aware of the charges against Musliu, Limaj, Haradinaj, etc.
I don't want to go into weather they are guilty (personally) or not, as I am not the judge. Whatever their personal guilt is, the fact remains that KLA is responsable for killing of lots of Serb civilians (as you can see from the charges, lots of Albanian civilians, too, for that matter.)
I'm not saying that Limaj did it, or Haradinaj did it, etc. The fact is - KLA did it. And it's dated (as you can see from trials) before Drenica Valley, before anything, Orahovac to name one site, early 1998.
Now, would you ever say that because actions of SOME Albanians (who killed the Serbs), ALL Albanians should have been subjected to violance. That because SOME Albanians commited those crimes, Serbs should have gone, even then, burning houses of ALL Albanians? I'm sure that you won't say that.
Why would you then justify violance against ALL Serbs, even if we take it that kids drowned because of something that TWO Serbs did?

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shtosi99

pre 16 godina

“Now, would you ever say that because actions of SOME Albanians (who killed the Serbs), ALL Albanians should have been subjected to violance. That because SOME Albanians commited those crimes, Serbs should have gone, even then, burning houses of ALL Albanians? I'm sure that you won't say that.” (sreten, 5. October 2007 15:56)

- Is that not what happened though? 850000 innocent civilians expelled, between 10 and 15 thousand killed, just because some separatist/paramilitary/terrorist (whatever you might call them, or maybe you call them monkeys with tails as one of your officials once did) group called KLA attacked Serbs? You see streten propaganda unfortunately works both ways. Except that in Kosovo there is something being done to return those that fled. Kosovo is working on becoming a multiethnic state, and it already has 3 official languages, Serbian being one of them. What’s Serbia doing to return the Albanian refugees who fled from the Preshevo Valley? Is Serbia willing to give the same rights Albanians in Serbia as Serbs are getting in Kosovo? Belgrade should stop playing games, it’s done enough damage!

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lili

pre 16 godina

i was in kosova when the kids died.
2 things were in question:one of the boyswas the only boy of the family after 7 daughter; and that's why it was so emotional for any albanian family,for any albanian mother! then,the mitrovica international officer said that the story was not true and the international police did not BELIEVE that the boys were in the river:the villagers looked for the bodies, not the international police! Then tmk joined them,not the international police!after they found the first body,our lady of international police made a declaration saying that serbs had nothing to do in this affair? how did she know,when a few hours before she had said that the kids were not in the river?
i was horrified by these declarations,as all albanians were!
albanians of the area marched to mitrovica the next day and were shot by serbs from this other side .These killings in mitrovica are the real cause of the mass protest then,because that day when i woke up in the morning in peja area,none of us had the idea to demonstrate but when we listen that 8 albanians have been killed in mitrovica,then we went in peja to demonstrate,and in peja kfor shooted as us(they were romanian too!) and i was a just a women with my 2 little kids,going just to protest for these new serbian killings in mitrovica!
the same thing happened around prishtina and in every town of kosovo!

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tan

pre 16 godina

quote:
Terrorism - in all forms and manifestations - must be CRUSHED! There can be no negotiations with fanatics who are hellbent on their mono-maniacal goals (e.g. "independence," "jihad," or "liberation"). The rest of the world is seeing (and will see) the real consequences of their dangerous policies which support these entities, many of which will come to haunt them! What is happening (and what happened) in Kosovo and Bosnia (cf. Mujahadeen, thwarted attack on the US embassy in Vienna, Fort Dix, etc.) is the TRUE FACE of it. We have reached a critical point in world affairs. The tide, however, is turning: haters of peace and humanity beware, the bell tolls for thee! "end quote

Hey are you talking as a christian here ?!
1- Christianity isnt mentioned in the bible
2.-the word bible is not mentioned in the "biblos"
3.Jesus never said i am god
4.-Who are you calling civic, and good: Who made 1,2 wolrd wars for power and domination, -CHRISTIANS
The west prospered when it left the princiles of christianity and the church and seperated it from policy making
ISLAM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY
5.WHo chose, or voted for this world order? USa and russia and other countries have the say on other countries- no one, they elected themselves, by the power of the gun, very democratic and good and moral

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Igor

pre 16 godina

I am sick and tired of these groups in and around KiM.
Where do these Albanina extremists and terrorists stop? They are the cause of all instability in that region. When they don't get what they want, then they to pretend to be some freedom fighters, but they are far from that. They are only terrorists and there is no other way of dealing with them, because we will be facing these terrorists for years to come unless we deal with them now. Let the Serbs patroll and control these islamic fundamentalist that threaten our civilized world.

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EA

pre 16 godina

The only way to neutralize this groups is giving a real chance to peace through the implemetation of Ahtisari Plan and the support for the Friendship Pact between Kosova and Serbia. Albanians living in Podujeva, Bujanovc and Medvegja should have the same rights envisaged for the Serbian minority in Kosova. That is the 21st Century Solutions. Otherwise the conflict will go on and on and it will not spare the Belgrade itself. Then the Serbian government will be looking for more "compromises" and "negotiation". The time is now for a realistic settlement.

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Agim Elshani

pre 16 godina

I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets. Actually they said or I should say one of them said that; they are counterforce to Car Lazar Guards and that is all.

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Ratko

pre 16 godina

"How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.
(Afrim Hoxha, 4. October 2007 14:39) "

afrim,

There is one big difference. These albanians are terrorists!

teni,
Even if you were able to steal our land you wouldn't stop there. That is a big problem!

Funny how nato will deal with these terrorists "when" they find them. It's really not that hard to find them. Just ask ceku and he will tell you.

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Dardan

pre 16 godina

Slobodan Milosevic: 'We know how to handle these murderers, these rapists, these criminals.' He said, 'We've done this before.' I said, 'Well, when?' He said, 'In Drenica in 1946.' And I said, 'What did you do?' He said, 'We killed them.' He said, 'We killed them all.’

Based on the comments above, Slobo is alive and doing very well in Serbia…

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Stevo

pre 16 godina

If the ANA terrorists want to go 'legit', the model is:

- get some money together (extortion/'tax' of their own people, drugs, whatever the source may be);
- use the money to fund lobby groups to pay off gullible US politicians - the 'usual suspects' - who are happy to take the money and sing whatever song is required and not question who it is that they are representing.
- provoke incidents of violence that cause retaliation;
- feign victimization and take terrorism home by putting their own family at risk by using their own house as a base;
- get the government of the US on your side by paying your US stooge politicians more money (see second point of this list);
- when the previous step is in place, the 'terrorist' tag will be removed and police uniforms will be provided for the 'former' terrorists;
- voila! Terrorists-to-'police force' and 'legitimacy' in a few easy steps! And the great thing is that the ex-terrorists who are 'police' can then cover up further acts of terrorism in the future! They can even add insult to their victims by having their terror leader wear a suit and shake hands with Western politicians safe in the knowledge that he will not face arrest.

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albano

pre 16 godina

"EA - I wonder how other countries such as the US might 'neutralise' ..."

Kate , you forgot only one think that is US , and you are SERBIA, is no need to explaine more to you I guess

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bganon

pre 16 godina

I dont know what Kosovo Television hopped to achieve by showing this.

However, the fact that terrorist groups are 'patrolling' Presevo etc shows that the Serbian police's estimate on the security of the region is true.

In other words the increase in Serbian interior ministry troops is justified. I dont like any form of repression but terrorism must be combatted.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 2
kate

pre 16 godina

EA - I wonder how other countries such as the US might 'neutralise' armed groups patrolling the streets of one of their provinces, regardless of its status as international protectorate. Certainly not by giving them what they want, as you suggest!

The UN should take up its responsibilities and nip this in the bud now.

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lili

pre 16 godina

oh yes ,kate!
Did you advice miloshevic too to act when kla appairs? sure he did as you say and did you see the result:all albanians gathering around kla...
so let's do as you say and you will seeif albanians will join serbia or not!

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teni

pre 16 godina

This is what you get when you leave things pending. The longer the status of Kosova is undecided the more attractive groups like these start to look. It provides an alternative way for people to vent their frustration. Doing what Kate suggests would only make them more powerful and the only people that can deal with them effectively are the K-Albanians themselves. (I do not support them at all now, and neither do the overwhelming majority of Albanians, but they would become a lot more palatable if the Serbs army intervened. In any case once Kosova gets its independence these groups will lose their raison d'etre and will be controlled. Is that simple.

Preporučujem 7 Ne preporučujem 2
smileforme

pre 16 godina

they are playing a dangerous game when it comes to albanian interests. this is a naive attempt to scare the ic into recognizing kosovo or else. but what guarantees the ic that it will stop there, that there won't be threats of violence over macedonia or montenegro. so the ic will have to think hard about everyone's future in the balkans and what to in fact do with kosovo. i think albanians publicize this on purpose. but the sword as ever cuts both ways. albanians are making themselves look very unreliable. i'm not gonna want to raise anyone's blood pressure here and taunt but it does look like a desparate tactic

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Afrim Hoxha

pre 16 godina

How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 2
CoscoVo

pre 16 godina

This is the problem when you have separatist militia leaders in government. They only know one way of dealing with things - terror. What do you expect from them? Just because you put them in a suit will not change their mentality. NATO/UN was so wrong in setting these ex-guerillas up in their proxy government. Anyway, this is just another plus for Belgrades arguement. We'll see how the IC reacts to this.

Preporučujem 11 Ne preporučujem 2
Kreshnik Bejko

pre 16 godina

bgagnon wrote:
However, the fact that terrorist groups are 'patrolling' Presevo etc shows that the Serbian police's estimate on the security of the region is true
-----------------------------

First: do not confuse Podujevo with Presevo

Second: security in the region is threatened by Serbia's claims of sovereignty over the region.

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Klaudian

pre 16 godina

In other words the increase in Serbian interior ministry troops is justified. I dont like any form of repression but terrorism must be combatted.
(bganon, 4. October 2007 11:31)

What about the Prince Lazar Guard and Karadzic, Mladic and thousands of other populating nowadays Belgrade? What about Kostunica with the AK47?

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KS

pre 16 godina

Jovan how dare you make such a remark. If the Serbs didn't let two kids drown March 24th would have never happened. If the kids never existed than what the hell where UNMIK police and TMK searching the rivers for? Missing voting ballots?

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lids

pre 16 godina

That`s just albanians showing little muscle in case they don`t get what they want.And praying that Serbians would react.Hell no-terrorist are so popular now will let the nations in wars against terrorist everywhere take ovet this one too.

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CoscoVo

pre 16 godina

Dardan, you talked to Milosevic personally? Where did you guys meet? Did he know you are Albanian? How did you get into conversation with him about this?

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Mike

pre 16 godina

I sincerely hope the US government hascontingency plans for what happens after Kosovo. Does KFOR have a mandate to neutralize this threat? Will ANA also target Pristina forces after they make a negotiated settlement, claiming they "sold" Albanian interests out to the Serbs and Russians?

My guess is that this group will try to see how far it can go before a retaliation ensues. No doubt the stories we've been hearing over the past few months of military coordination between NATO and VS will be used in driving this threat out of Serbia Proper. The Macedonian government also needs to take a more pro-active position against ANA since Skoplje's relationship with the Albanian minority could deteriorate at any minute. Sooner or later, the Western powers that are determining the fate of the Balkans will have to realize that groups like the ANA pose threats to the entire regional stability of the area and need to be targetted with the same degree of determination as the Taliban and al Qaida. This is Serbia's Kosovo's Macedonia's and the US's joint problem.

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Roger7

pre 16 godina

"Second: security in the region is threatened by Serbia's claims of sovereignty over the region."

Yesterday we read..."Earlier today, Kosovo Prime Minister Agim Ceku’s political adviser, Azem
Vlasi, said on that should Kosovo remain under Serbian sovereignty, it would be “primarily detrimental for Serbia.”

Mr. Vlasi acknowledges Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo, therefore it must be fact.

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smile

pre 16 godina

"serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing"

you can have what you like but something that helps with law and order in kosovo one presumes would be better for you than these clowns regulating traffic?
Anyway, if those tsar lazar whatever even thought about putting up road blocks anywhere in serbia they would be dealt with really quickly by our coppers.
So why the comparision, ana, lazar, whatnot. just take care of what needs to be taken care of down your end or you're not serious and reliable.
Does kps have any backbone at all as a police force? are they really a police force? There's these ninja wannabes harassing citizens kps is thre to protect, what is kps doing about it? This must be your number one question today, forget status. Status is abstract, this is real.
These "anas" are doing you no favors. This time no serbs will come retaliating, they're sitting tight around bujanovac. So in the end your "action" will not be obscured with "reaction" like in 1999. no favors whatsoever.

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veton

pre 16 godina

I don't agree with UNMIK's classification of ANA as a terrorist group. They are not different then our own KLA. Just people wanting their rights.

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KS

pre 16 godina

That they drowned it's true, but in additional investigation of several NGO's it turned out that story about the Serbs with the dog was completely made up.
Things aren't always what they seem.
(Sreten, 5. October 2007 00:17)

Sreten, if you witnessed me killing your father than 10minutes later someone ask "what were you doing when KS killed your father" you would not be able to respond or think bc your in shock.

These kids witnessed their own friends being drowned. I see nothing made up, but why would a man chase kids with a dog (most likely vicious bc kids ran for the water) is what I'm always wondering.

Is it custom to chase kids with dogs in your country?

Also notices the report said a dozen (12) churches were destroyed, 3200 people were uprooted ---- you kinda just killed all these Serb Camp lies about "200 churches" and hundreds of thousands of people.

Thanks

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sreten

pre 16 godina

It seems to me that quality of comments are detorieting on B92. People don't even bother reading articles any more, and responding to what is actually being said.
Most comments here are like this:
"How about the Tsar Lazar group??????? dont serbs have their own militias too?
Oh i forgot that serbs are allowed to have anything, while albanians should have nothing.
(Afrim Hoxha, 4. October 2007 14:39) "
or
"I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets. Actually they said or I should say one of them said that; they are counterforce to Car Lazar Guards and that is all.
(Agim Elshani, 4. October 2007 13:00) "

Article is not about weather or not ANA is a terrorist group. Same goes for Car Lazar Guards.
One could debate that for a long time like this.
"They have taken responsibility for several bombing incidents in Kosovo since then." while Car Lazar Guards did not plant any bombs, therefore, they are not terrorist...and so on, and so forth.
Nor it's about weather classification by UNMIK calling ANA terrorist organization is correct or not. This is not a subject of article.
The fact is that there is nothing that can legally justify existance of either ANA or Car Lazar Guards.
Terrorist?
Let's leave it alone. Paramilitaries?
For sure.
The real question raised in this article is if paramilitaries should be interviewed on the TV, and given the chance to promote their views?
Article starts:

"He was reacting to last night's broadcast by Kosovo's public television of an interview with a group the UN designated to be terrorist."

Again, terrorist, forget about it for now.
They are paramilitaries for sure.
Should Car Lazar Guards be brought to any TV channel in Serbia, not to mention state TV, and interviewed, allowing them to reach larger audiance?
I personally, would not feel good about such thing. It would be a clear sign of total decline of any legality in society.
Does it mean that any group of people that has weapons should start parading on the TV screens?
And why? Because they have weapons? Are people with guns ones that we should give opportunity to speak out their minds? And how did they deserve this right? Because they are armed?
Will this be an incentive to other groups to arm themselves in other to be heard?
Those are the real questions here, and the way debate should be going. But, we see very little of that.
What?, or who is a terrorist?, is being debated here instead.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

"I saw that clip on prime time news RTK and was pleasantly suprised at their military uniform and all the high tech gadgets.
(Agim Elshani, 4. October 2007 13:00)"

once again we can see an indicator for what I have assumed here, we are dealing with some teenager-boys here, ...this Agim is impressed by military-equipment...

boy, ...this is no action-movie..

and by the way: didn´t the socalled "RTK" play an important role in spreading the false-information of Serbs hunting albanian kids with their dogs? didn´t that lead to the 2004 pogroms?

perhaps this propaganda-channel should be closed by the UNMIK-authorities...

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Johnny Rotten

pre 16 godina

Terrorism - in all forms and manifestations - must be CRUSHED! There can be no negotiations with fanatics who are hellbent on their mono-maniacal goals (e.g. "independence," "jihad," or "liberation"). The rest of the world is seeing (and will see) the real consequences of their dangerous policies which support these entities, many of which will come to haunt them! What is happening (and what happened) in Kosovo and Bosnia (cf. Mujahadeen, thwarted attack on the US embassy in Vienna, Fort Dix, etc.) is the TRUE FACE of it. We have reached a critical point in world affairs. The tide, however, is turning: haters of peace and humanity beware, the bell tolls for thee!

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boris

pre 16 godina

There will not be any independence for Kosovo. Serbia backed by Russia will make sure of that. All Russia has to do is VETO Kosovo independence in the UN, therefore 1244 STANDS, in which case 999 Serbian police can enter northern Kosovo LEGALLY to protect Serbs. If they are attacked, they CAN and WILL defend themselves. Against whomever that may be. Remember, RUSSIA drew a red line and will NOT lose. Things have changed since '99. In Russia's favor, and it looks to be going in their favor for many more years to come. The U.S. will only get weaker with all their wars. Russia could even arm Serbia with the most sophisticated weaponry to defend against Nato even if worst comes to worst. This is all about Russia VS US right now. The game has changed.

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Besim

pre 16 godina

it's is pretty hard to look for the solution between serbs and kosovars.

Serbs in one side think that: kosovo is theirs because they builded churches there and they have cultural ties to that land


Kosovars: believe kosovo is theirs and they are descendants of Yllirian who always had been in the rigon of balkan even before slavs came to balkan......

SERBS
ALBANIAN
there are many things that both sides have in common

Sebs have: head 2 eye 2 hands 2 legs and so on

Albanians have : head 2 eye 2 hands 2 legs and so on

in other words BOTH SIDE ARE HUMAN why do you guys fight and hate so much...

My question is to both sides Serbs and Albans:

Do you thing Albans and Serbs will ever live together in peace whithout hating each other so much. if yes! how? what should be done there in order to have peace between two sides?

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Sreten

pre 16 godina

KS.
You should dare too, to question things, and try to find out the truth.
Try by accepting this though. Not everything you hear on media (Albanian, Serbian, American, or whatever other) is true.

Here is a link to official UNMIK archives.

http://www.unmikonline.org/archives/news04_04full.htm#2804

On April 28th UNMIK completed its investigation and released the statement.

"Lack of evidence stalls probe into drowning of 3 Kosovo children, UN mission says

28 April 2004 – An investigation by the United Nations mission in Kosovo into the alleged criminal drowning of three children, which sparked last month's large-scale inter-ethnic violence, has stalled because of a lack of evidence, a spokesperson for the UN police said today.

Neeraj Singh, a spokesman for the police and justice branches of the UN Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK), told a press conference in the capital Pristina the public prosecutor, investigating judge and case investigator believed the evidence did not support "a grounded suspicion of the commission of a criminal act."

"As such, the matter can proceed no further at this time," he said, adding that the investigation "will be revived" should any further "credible evidence" be uncovered.

Nearly nineteen people were killed, hundreds more injured - including soldiers from the Kosovo international force (KFOR) - and more than 3,200 were uprooted from their homes last month following days of clashes between ethnic Albanians and Serbs, the worst violence the province had seen in the five years since the UN assumed administration. In addition to the casualties, more than a dozen Serb churches were destroyed and the homes of at least 100 Serbs were burned.

According to Mr. Singh, the investigation so far determined that six children from Cabra village crossed a bridge in the evening of 16 March and went over to the Zupce side of the Ibar River. About 500 metres downstream from the bridge two of the children briefly separated from the group and continued further downstream.

The four who remained at the location then entered the river, which was swollen and turbulent. Only one of them, 13-year-old Fitim Veseli, reached the other side of the river. The body of Egzon Deliu, 12, was found in the night of 16 March and that of Avni Veseli, 11, the next morning. One child, Florent Veseli, 9, is still missing.

The only survivor, Fitim, told investigators that two young male Serbs in their early 20's emerged, along with a dog, from one of the houses in Zupce at the top of an escarpment and approached the boys. Fear of the dog prompted the four boys to enter the river.

The spokesperson said there were "very significant" inconsistencies in the accounts given by the child during two separate interviews, and a lack of corroboration of his story. "In fact, it is logically at odds in several respects with other evidence," Mr. Singh said."

So, what the hell where UNMIK police and TMK searching the rivers for , KS?
For bodies of drowned children of course. Only the part that Serbs were responsable for their drowning was completely made up.

"The spokesperson said there were "very significant" inconsistencies in the accounts given by the child during two separate interviews, and a lack of corroboration of his story. "In fact, it is logically at odds in several respects with other evidence,"

That they drowned it's true, but in additional investigation of several NGO's it turned out that story about the Serbs with the dog was completely made up.
Things aren't always what they seem.

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Bob Petrovich

pre 16 godina

"I don't agree with UNMIK's classification of ANA as a terrorist group. They are not different then our own KLA. Just people wanting their rights.
(veton, 4. October 2007 19:32)


Yes, AKSH are the same kind of terrorist thugs like KLA. And they want their "rights", i.e. share in proceeds from narcotics manufacturing, people smuggling and other criminal activities controlled by KLA.

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Delije

pre 16 godina

When serbs support the serb gov, we are radicals, nationalists, ultranationalists. So what are the ana supporters here on this site? I know the answer. ter...

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european

pre 16 godina

It seems no space for more "dust under carpet". Albanians simply will not be able to accept any suggestion different of their (excluding) way of thinking. If this is "albanian" national army, why Albania does not determine it's position over this problem. Thus, conclusion can be that terorist groups are not danger for Albania and Albanians, but for the others. KFOR will be safe till keep neutrality. In the moment KFOR takes first step in disarming these groups, escalation will be like 10 years ago. Just in this case Milosevic will not be an excuse!

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johny

pre 16 godina

I wonder what Czar Lazar troops are. Just the other day their leader stated that they will fight NATO and the Albanians in Kosova/o on a Top-Channel interview.
I also wonder how Serbs think the Albanians would react to threats coming from Serbian ministers that they are going to invade Kosova/o and that they are sending their military in Kosova/o. If 90% of the population despises your troops and your military why are threatening of sending them, if your intentions are not for war.
The of course the ANA and othe acronyms will come to surface. One cannot respond to such threats with flowers. This is the Balkans and we're talking about Serbia. Our houses have been burnt to the ground several times, our children, sisters, mother; brothers killed. We have to find a way to respond to threats and defend ourselves.

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Lorik Jashari

pre 16 godina

we are ready for any attempt of the serbian army and paramilitary to enter again in KOSOVA but dont forget we have also NATO and USA so any attempt to enter KOSOVA will be the most dumbest thing in the world so after 10 december we will declaire once again our INDEPENDENCE so EU and USA will accept and who cares about russia and serbia , and dont forget what President BUSH sad in ALBANIA : KOSOVA WILL BE INDEPENDENT !

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Niall O'Doherty, Ireland

pre 16 godina

KS, I'm very surprised by your statement regarding the unfortunate children. Fact is, the entire story was made up which was then later verified by several NGO's and the UN. It didnt matter, since the locals engaged in good old fashioned Serb hunting. And then we all wonder why the K-Serbs want no truck with an independent 'Kosova'. well we just got our answer.

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Trublloni

pre 16 godina

“There will not be any independence for Kosovo. Serbia backed by Russia will make sure of that. All Russia has to do is VETO Kosovo independence in the UN, therefore 1244 STANDS…”
(boris, 4. October 2007 21:51)

- Russia was also against the intervention in 99. And what happened in 99? Also Italy and Greece were against it but it didn’t stop them from joining the bombing. What you have to understand is that international law, or any law for that matter, has always loopholes in it. Especially when you’re the strong one you can bend it and twist it however it suits you.

“Do you thing Albans and Serbs will ever live together in peace whithout hating each other so much. if yes! how? what should be done there in order to have peace between two sides?”
(Besim, 4. October 2007 22:46)

-Albanians and Serbs have been living together as friends and allies for a very long time. That is until Belgrade (not Serbian people but Belgrades “elite diplomats”) noticed that Albanians have a higher birth-rate and decided to expel them from Central Serbia and Kosovo, possibly to Turkey or Albania. This of course created hatred amongst Albanians who took revenge on innocent Serb civilians whenever they got the chance, e.g. WW2. These Serbs then fled to the north and did the same, took revenge on innocent Albanians, who then moved south and did the same etc etc… you get the picture. The same phenomenon happened in 99. This is why today you have over 90% Albanians in Kosovo but none in central Serbia. Although the fact that Kosovo was the poorest region in Yugoslavia, and the Serbs always had the option of moving north, also plays a big role.
Therefore in my opinion Belgrade has to make the right move and admit a few things and apologise.

Anyway just felt I had to comment on those things. Back to the subject. In my opinion the media should NOT ignore such groups. This is not simply a group of armed men like strene says. This is a serious thread to peace and stability in the whole region and therefore ignoring it will just make it worse because one day it will come back and bite you in the arse. But the media should make sure it does not make these illegal groups look like heroes and liberators. Kosovo was liberated in 99, that’s it.


PS: in regards to the status question (which again is not the subject here but what the hell I might as well) I think that Belgrade and Prishtina should make an agreement on creating some kind of confederation. Sign an agreement for maybe 10 years or more and then have a referendum. This will give both sides some more time to join the EU and look at the whole thing with a cool head rather than some kind of romantic patriotism. I think it’s not a question of what people want but what is the best solution. Belgrades “broad autonomy” proposal is a great idea but at least a decade too late. Playing the victim does not help after creating all these wars. People who argue that legally Kosovo can not be taken from Serbia should again not forget that “legally” NATO should have never intervened.

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sreten

pre 16 godina

KS.
As you can see from comment No. 39, the Irish dare to question, too.
It's been well known, KS.
In fact the reporter was under investigation himself, for false reporting.

Here is another link that will show you that Canadians dare to question, too.
It's dated April 08, 2004, and published in The National Post.

http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=article&articleid=7427

"The media
reported that four Albanian boys had been chased into the river Ibar in
Mitrovica by at least two Serbs and a dog (the dog's ethnic affiliation was
not reported).Three of the boys drowned and one escaped to the other side.
Immediately, thousands of Albanians mobilized and concentrated in the area
of the divided city. Attacks on Serbs took place throughout the province
resulting in an estimated 30 killed and 600 wounded. Thirty Serbian
Christian Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed, more than 300
homes were burnt to the ground and six Serbian villages cleansed of their
occupants. One hundred and fifty international peacekeepers were injured. "

Then it goes to say:

"Totally ignored in North America were the numerous statements from
impartial sources that said there was no incident between the Serbs, the
dog and the Albanian boys. NATO Police spokesman Derek Chappell stated on
March 16 that it was "definitely not true" that the boys had been chased
into the river by Serbs. Chappell went on to say that the surviving boy
had told his parents that they had entered the river alone and that three of
his friends had been swept away by the current. Admiral Gregory Johnson,
the overall NATO commander, further stated that the ensuing clashes were
"orchestrated and well-planned ethnic cleansing" by the Kosovo-Albanians.
Those Serbs forced to leave joined the 200,000 who had been cleansed from
the province since NATO's "humanitarian" bombing in 1999. "

Now, pay attention to the last sentence here.
Serbs that had to leave joined 200,000 who already left before March 2004.
So, I'm not sure what you mean when you say:

"Also notices the report said a dozen (12) churches were destroyed, 3200 people were uprooted ---- you kinda just killed all these Serb Camp lies about "200 churches" and hundreds of thousands of people."

Don't confuse the result of March 2004 with overall violance results.

The point is KS, that I would not simply trust Serbian media, just because it's Serbian. Media in EVERY country is very capable of manipulation public oppinion. It's always good to try to find about something from more sources, and then to form an oppinion.

But, let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that you are right, and that some Serbs chased kids into to river with the dog.

Shouldn't those two then be punished for what they did? Well, you can punish the dog too.
In your No. 31 comment you seem to be saying that Serbs were responsable for the violance in 2004, with your statements like "if Serbs didn't drown the kids, violance wouldn't happen", etc.
So, even if we take it that there were two Serbs with the dog, and that they did what you are saying. Should all Serbs pay for the action of those two?

You are probably aware of the charges against Musliu, Limaj, Haradinaj, etc.
I don't want to go into weather they are guilty (personally) or not, as I am not the judge. Whatever their personal guilt is, the fact remains that KLA is responsable for killing of lots of Serb civilians (as you can see from the charges, lots of Albanian civilians, too, for that matter.)
I'm not saying that Limaj did it, or Haradinaj did it, etc. The fact is - KLA did it. And it's dated (as you can see from trials) before Drenica Valley, before anything, Orahovac to name one site, early 1998.
Now, would you ever say that because actions of SOME Albanians (who killed the Serbs), ALL Albanians should have been subjected to violance. That because SOME Albanians commited those crimes, Serbs should have gone, even then, burning houses of ALL Albanians? I'm sure that you won't say that.
Why would you then justify violance against ALL Serbs, even if we take it that kids drowned because of something that TWO Serbs did?

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shtosi99

pre 16 godina

“Now, would you ever say that because actions of SOME Albanians (who killed the Serbs), ALL Albanians should have been subjected to violance. That because SOME Albanians commited those crimes, Serbs should have gone, even then, burning houses of ALL Albanians? I'm sure that you won't say that.” (sreten, 5. October 2007 15:56)

- Is that not what happened though? 850000 innocent civilians expelled, between 10 and 15 thousand killed, just because some separatist/paramilitary/terrorist (whatever you might call them, or maybe you call them monkeys with tails as one of your officials once did) group called KLA attacked Serbs? You see streten propaganda unfortunately works both ways. Except that in Kosovo there is something being done to return those that fled. Kosovo is working on becoming a multiethnic state, and it already has 3 official languages, Serbian being one of them. What’s Serbia doing to return the Albanian refugees who fled from the Preshevo Valley? Is Serbia willing to give the same rights Albanians in Serbia as Serbs are getting in Kosovo? Belgrade should stop playing games, it’s done enough damage!

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lili

pre 16 godina

i was in kosova when the kids died.
2 things were in question:one of the boyswas the only boy of the family after 7 daughter; and that's why it was so emotional for any albanian family,for any albanian mother! then,the mitrovica international officer said that the story was not true and the international police did not BELIEVE that the boys were in the river:the villagers looked for the bodies, not the international police! Then tmk joined them,not the international police!after they found the first body,our lady of international police made a declaration saying that serbs had nothing to do in this affair? how did she know,when a few hours before she had said that the kids were not in the river?
i was horrified by these declarations,as all albanians were!
albanians of the area marched to mitrovica the next day and were shot by serbs from this other side .These killings in mitrovica are the real cause of the mass protest then,because that day when i woke up in the morning in peja area,none of us had the idea to demonstrate but when we listen that 8 albanians have been killed in mitrovica,then we went in peja to demonstrate,and in peja kfor shooted as us(they were romanian too!) and i was a just a women with my 2 little kids,going just to protest for these new serbian killings in mitrovica!
the same thing happened around prishtina and in every town of kosovo!

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tan

pre 16 godina

quote:
Terrorism - in all forms and manifestations - must be CRUSHED! There can be no negotiations with fanatics who are hellbent on their mono-maniacal goals (e.g. "independence," "jihad," or "liberation"). The rest of the world is seeing (and will see) the real consequences of their dangerous policies which support these entities, many of which will come to haunt them! What is happening (and what happened) in Kosovo and Bosnia (cf. Mujahadeen, thwarted attack on the US embassy in Vienna, Fort Dix, etc.) is the TRUE FACE of it. We have reached a critical point in world affairs. The tide, however, is turning: haters of peace and humanity beware, the bell tolls for thee! "end quote

Hey are you talking as a christian here ?!
1- Christianity isnt mentioned in the bible
2.-the word bible is not mentioned in the "biblos"
3.Jesus never said i am god
4.-Who are you calling civic, and good: Who made 1,2 wolrd wars for power and domination, -CHRISTIANS
The west prospered when it left the princiles of christianity and the church and seperated it from policy making
ISLAM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY
5.WHo chose, or voted for this world order? USa and russia and other countries have the say on other countries- no one, they elected themselves, by the power of the gun, very democratic and good and moral

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