“Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs”

“Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs”

That is exactly what I have been saying all the time. All other solution will only bring violence and possibly another war in the region. This would be lethal for all.

That is why it is so desirable to have the Russia's support for a new UN Security Council resolution to endorse the President Ahtisari Plan which would mean guaranteed priviledged rights for the Serbian minority in Kosova. There would be no need for the Serbian minority even to think leaving their homes. If the Serbian minority listen to Koshtunica and his fellows that would mean that they don't want to live in peace in Kosova. In a democratic Kosova everyone would be free to choose where to live. One thing is for certain that Russia will not be allowed to hold hostage the fate of more than two million Kosovar Albanians for very long. The news are coming really fast.

“Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs”

Is that an indirect threat to Kosovo Serbs that if there is no independence it will not be good for them?

EA - There will be no need for the Serbs to leave their homes if Kosovo declares independence as they will simply break away and remain with Serbia, whether the Albanians like it or not.

Just as Serbia, in reality, can do nothing on the ground to prevent Kosovo declaring independence, neither can the Albanians do anything if the Serbs in Kosovo decide to stay within the borders of Serbia, even though Ceku and the rest of the Albanian team are desperate to try to keep the Trepca mines, as that is the mani economic asset of Kosovo.

It ain't gonna happen buddy. If Kosovo declares independence it can kiss goodbye to the Serbs and their land in the north of Kosovo and the Trepca mines with it.

The answer to the numerous Albanian questions of "Are you only interested in the economic assets of Kosovo, not the cultural heritage of Kosovo?". My personal answer to that would be YES, the same answer as Ceku's and the Albanians team.

It'll be interesting to see how much/little financial support the US will provide you with if 1) you declare independence , and 2)the Serbs decide to stay within Serbia with their mines.

Without £150 BILLION (there is estimated to be 15 BIllion tons of coal alone under Kosovo)of mineral wealth under ALbanian control I don't think the Americans will be interested in doing much business with you, as you'll have little to offer them!!!

Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs"
“Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs”
"Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs"

Just trying to see if I say it often enough, will it come true?

If you believe this to be a true statement, then please believe me when I say that I have valuable swamp land for sale in Mississippi.

Well, Mr. Ceku may be right.
Albanians will be very happy.

The problem is that Kosovo Albanians will be happy for the next days after the independence, maybe weeks.
Then they will see that Kosovo still has powercuts, shortage of water, unemployment, lack of visas to go abroad etc. And what will happen next?

My point is that almost political parties in Kosovo (at least, those who really matter) have their political platforms articulated around the sole issue of independence. The rest - economical development - is left for the international community.

When talking with their representatives, one may get the impression that Albanian politicians are prepared to deal only with the capital issues of of the Kosovo flag and related topics! As for the rest: KFOR and EU police should fight organized crime, EU should build a new power plant to replace the Obilic one, and all other ethnic groups in Kosovo should feel very well in their "new" country (and tune down their demands.)

Almost none of the Kosovo Albanians I've been able to talk with in the last months are aware that after independence, Albanians (as majority) will fully answer internationally for their behaviour toward minority groups in Kosovo.

And I am afraid Kosovo Albanians will be under even more close scrutiny when about the respect for human rights. Otherwise, there will be no EU, Council of Europe, NATO and so on.

I say this out of Romania's experience (I am Romanian). We were under such scrutiny in regarding the Hungarian minority situation in Transilvania (which starting with 1996 became associated in the Bucharest government, and is still there...). And we proved that we know our responsibilities, as majority, and therefore we were welcomed into EU in 2007. I wish Kosovo to have a similar road... but maybe I am too optimits?

Best from Bucharest,
George

“Serbs in Kosovo can only benefit from an atmosphere where Albanians and others are satisfied, where 90 percent of the Kosovo population is happy,” Ceku’s adviser concluded."

So in other words, the Serbs can only be safe when the Albanians don't feel a need to target them? Is this basically saying "you're lives will get so much better once we find no practical reason to kill you?"

That's a tenuous situation indeed. Never one to link "rational thought" to anyone labeled "Ceku's advisor", I think decentralization and local self government, guaranteed and protected by institutional law - something the K-Serbs have been demanding for so long - can benefit Kosovo's Serbs. There is absolutely ZERO trust felt by K-Serbs towards Albanians, and with good reasons. There should be no reason to trust guarantees of goodwill coming from Pristina. Give the Serbs the same political rights and freedoms as the Albanians are demanding for themselves. If it's good enough to Agim and Arben, it's good enough for Boris and Milan.

Yes, George in Bucharest. When you in Romania sort out your own problems of corruption, poverty and suppression of minorities, then you can lecture Kosova. In case you did not realise, Romania does not have any say or leverage on Kosova's future.

Once again, totally differing viewpoints. Albanians feel they have no guarantee under Serbian rule, Serbs feel they have no guarantee under Kosovar rule.

At the end of the day, I honestly think that Partition will be the final outcome from this whole story. If Kosovo breaks away, why wouldn't the Serbs wish to go back to Serbia (especially considering that Kosovo is a province whose territorial integrity is not defended by 1244)?

There is no clear cut solution to this, that is for sure, because none will live with the other!

Well, if Kosovo gains idependence from Serbia by K-Albanians threatening violence if they don't, what is stopping Serbs making the same threats?

If the US believes in their own democracy then they will have no objection to Serbia holding a referendum on this. The whole country, including Kosovo takes part is this referendum and what the majority decides should happen.
You can't have a certain minority ethnic group who happen to be a majority in one province decide for all the people of that country. Include the whole population or don't include any.
If the vote then comes back in favour of independence then by all means implement it.

Somehow I doubt it will and the mighty US will never allow this democratic process to take place because they know it would not go their way.

If the US doesn't agree with this then RS and Croatians from Herzegovina have every right to hold their own referendums and simply threten violence if they aren't granted independence from Bosnia. Mr Bush you have to be consistent.

Hey Peter how does Partition fall under 1244? Better yet how are you going to enforce such a vision when both sides hate it?

To Mospyt:

Do you realize what are you saying?
"Yes, George in Bucharest. When you in Romania sort out your own problems of corruption, poverty and suppression of minorities, then you can lecture Kosova. In case you did not realise, Romania does not have any say or leverage on Kosova's future".

Corruption and poverty, yes, they are plenty in Romania, no doubt about it.

But what are you saying about "supression of minorities"????
When one of the two parties in government now in Bucharest is the Hungarian minority party? When 16 seats are reserved in Romanian Parlament for 16 minorities, including the group of 447 (four hundred forty seven) Albanians????

Well, I see how Kosovo Albanians do not need more enemies, they are very skilled in alienating friends...

And about Romania and Kosovo - we are neighbouring country of Serbia, and this should be important for Kosovo, don't you think? Not to mention that we are IN a lot of places where Kosovo will want&hope to get, NATO and EU included...

We will see how important is Romania for Kosovo Albanians when they will try to get jobs in Romania/EU, as our workers are going more and more in Western Europe...

Very sad to see how people obsessed with one single issue are closing up their minds and leave their tongues to speak without judgement... Grow up!

Romania has a long way to go, but it is far ahead of Kosovo, that is for sure!

Anyway, this sort of one sided argument is presented by the Serbian side also, but the fact is none can guarentee the safety of the other, and the past has shown that.

I wonder what the future will bring, because there is no clear-cut solution for this. Both sides will have to sacrifice something.

Best from Bucharest,
George
(george, 2. October 2007 16:44
"The problem is that Kosovo Albanians will be happy for the next days after the independence, maybe weeks.
Then they will see that Kosovo still has powercuts, shortage of water, unemployment, lack of visas to go abroad etc. And what will happen next? "


George,
Thanks for your concern but don't worry about us, we can take care of everything.

Albanian won't be happy just for few weeks but for the rest of their lives and many centuries to come.

The biggest threat of their lives was Serbia and thanks God this threat is being vanished once and for all, hence Albanians will live happy ever after.

Also, if you managed to get into EU then for us it will be even easier.Actually we don't have to go to EU at all, we are inviting them to come to Kosova instead. We Albanians are known world wide to be good hosts for our friends for many centuries. We might ask EU to transfer the Brussels' offices into Prishtina as well, and why not? They can run EU policies from new capital of EU, Prishtina.:)

As for Visa and going abroad, well that tells us how far you are from reality in Kosova.

Didn't you know that about half a million of Albanians live all over EU and USA, Australia and New Zeland?

For most of Albanians there was never a visa problem because almost all Albanians have a son or a daughter abroad. A simple application to nearest embassy and voila, as if by magic they get visa with no additional question asked.

Me personally for the last 14 years that I live in UK, I managed to bring all my family, friends and cousins to visit London with no problem at all. Actually my family, now they get 1 year visa instead of 6 month unlike others.

They came to visit me so often that UK embassy decided to grant them with 1 year visa instead of initially 6 month.

Mike:
" think decentralization and local self government, guaranteed and protected by institutional law - something the K-Serbs have been demanding for so long - can benefit Kosovo's Serbs"

Honestly Mike, what is different about this from the provisions of the Ahtissari Plan re the minority areas, the Plan that Serbia so strongly objects to?
I wonder how many commenting here have actually read the plan.

"The whole country, including Kosovo takes part is this referendum and what the majority decides should happen.
You can't have a certain minority ethnic group who happen to be a majority in one province decide for all the people of that country. Include the whole population or don't include any.
If the vote then comes back in favour of independence then by all means implement it.
"

How is that supposed to be democratic, when the issue of Kosova/o doesn't even concern the daily life of the people leaving in Serbia proper. How is it democratic for the aggressor to decide for the people it killed and just 8 years ago. It is because this twisted ideas of democracy that Serbia is offering that cutting all ties with Serbia is an urgent matter for us Albanians.

Geroge i-m albanian and completely agree with you... we are dissapointed form your position regarding the ahtisari plan dipsite the close historical cultural relations that our nationas have. We were hopping on your suooprt thats all

Johny,
I see that you have no concept of democracy. You don't pick and choose which parts of the country participate in a referendum affecting the outcome of all of it's citizens.
You can have a local vote concerning local issues like which day you have as your garbage removal day, but a break up of a country is not a local issue. It concerns all the citizens of that country.
Of course Kosovo is an issue that all of Serbia is affected by. How can you say that it doesn't concern citizens in Serbia proper. Serbia proper is the whole of Serbia with both Vojvodina and Kosovo included.
When are you going to accept that Serbia is a country recognized with it's current borders and not the ones on your wish list.
You are however free not to cast your vote.

George in Bucharest,

I repeat, you are in position to lecture Kosova. It will be independent regardless what Romania does. Your arrogance is breathtaking. Kosovars earn more than your average Romanian and will not need to beat your way to make a living. And finally, with friends like you, Kosova's does not need enemies.

DimTuc,

The difference is that the Ahtisaari plan doesn't go far enough. All the guarantees given to Serbs, rest on the "good will" of the Albanians. Pardon me if I don't invest too much stock in that potential train wreck. What we need are provisions in Ahtisaari, backed up, and codified in formal political institutions the Serbs have exclusive control over. What's one of the main reasons why Albanian's don't accept Serbia's offer of autonomy? Because they fear Belgrade would rescind it on a whim. The same applies to Ahtisaari in Kosovo for Serbs.

I like to call it Ahtisaari Plus.

“Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs”

That is exactly what I have been saying all the time. All other solution will only bring violence and possibly another war in the region. This would be lethal for all.

That is why it is so desirable to have the Russia's support for a new UN Security Council resolution to endorse the President Ahtisari Plan which would mean guaranteed priviledged rights for the Serbian minority in Kosova. There would be no need for the Serbian minority even to think leaving their homes. If the Serbian minority listen to Koshtunica and his fellows that would mean that they don't want to live in peace in Kosova. In a democratic Kosova everyone would be free to choose where to live. One thing is for certain that Russia will not be allowed to hold hostage the fate of more than two million Kosovar Albanians for very long. The news are coming really fast.

Yes, George in Bucharest. When you in Romania sort out your own problems of corruption, poverty and suppression of minorities, then you can lecture Kosova. In case you did not realise, Romania does not have any say or leverage on Kosova's future.

Hey Peter how does Partition fall under 1244? Better yet how are you going to enforce such a vision when both sides hate it?

“Serbs in Kosovo can only benefit from an atmosphere where Albanians and others are satisfied, where 90 percent of the Kosovo population is happy,” Ceku’s adviser concluded."

So in other words, the Serbs can only be safe when the Albanians don't feel a need to target them? Is this basically saying "you're lives will get so much better once we find no practical reason to kill you?"

That's a tenuous situation indeed. Never one to link "rational thought" to anyone labeled "Ceku's advisor", I think decentralization and local self government, guaranteed and protected by institutional law - something the K-Serbs have been demanding for so long - can benefit Kosovo's Serbs. There is absolutely ZERO trust felt by K-Serbs towards Albanians, and with good reasons. There should be no reason to trust guarantees of goodwill coming from Pristina. Give the Serbs the same political rights and freedoms as the Albanians are demanding for themselves. If it's good enough to Agim and Arben, it's good enough for Boris and Milan.

To Mospyt:

Do you realize what are you saying?
"Yes, George in Bucharest. When you in Romania sort out your own problems of corruption, poverty and suppression of minorities, then you can lecture Kosova. In case you did not realise, Romania does not have any say or leverage on Kosova's future".

Corruption and poverty, yes, they are plenty in Romania, no doubt about it.

But what are you saying about "supression of minorities"????
When one of the two parties in government now in Bucharest is the Hungarian minority party? When 16 seats are reserved in Romanian Parlament for 16 minorities, including the group of 447 (four hundred forty seven) Albanians????

Well, I see how Kosovo Albanians do not need more enemies, they are very skilled in alienating friends...

And about Romania and Kosovo - we are neighbouring country of Serbia, and this should be important for Kosovo, don't you think? Not to mention that we are IN a lot of places where Kosovo will want&hope to get, NATO and EU included...

We will see how important is Romania for Kosovo Albanians when they will try to get jobs in Romania/EU, as our workers are going more and more in Western Europe...

Very sad to see how people obsessed with one single issue are closing up their minds and leave their tongues to speak without judgement... Grow up!

Well, Mr. Ceku may be right.
Albanians will be very happy.

The problem is that Kosovo Albanians will be happy for the next days after the independence, maybe weeks.
Then they will see that Kosovo still has powercuts, shortage of water, unemployment, lack of visas to go abroad etc. And what will happen next?

My point is that almost political parties in Kosovo (at least, those who really matter) have their political platforms articulated around the sole issue of independence. The rest - economical development - is left for the international community.

When talking with their representatives, one may get the impression that Albanian politicians are prepared to deal only with the capital issues of of the Kosovo flag and related topics! As for the rest: KFOR and EU police should fight organized crime, EU should build a new power plant to replace the Obilic one, and all other ethnic groups in Kosovo should feel very well in their "new" country (and tune down their demands.)

Almost none of the Kosovo Albanians I've been able to talk with in the last months are aware that after independence, Albanians (as majority) will fully answer internationally for their behaviour toward minority groups in Kosovo.

And I am afraid Kosovo Albanians will be under even more close scrutiny when about the respect for human rights. Otherwise, there will be no EU, Council of Europe, NATO and so on.

I say this out of Romania's experience (I am Romanian). We were under such scrutiny in regarding the Hungarian minority situation in Transilvania (which starting with 1996 became associated in the Bucharest government, and is still there...). And we proved that we know our responsibilities, as majority, and therefore we were welcomed into EU in 2007. I wish Kosovo to have a similar road... but maybe I am too optimits?

Best from Bucharest,
George

“Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs”

Is that an indirect threat to Kosovo Serbs that if there is no independence it will not be good for them?

EA - There will be no need for the Serbs to leave their homes if Kosovo declares independence as they will simply break away and remain with Serbia, whether the Albanians like it or not.

Just as Serbia, in reality, can do nothing on the ground to prevent Kosovo declaring independence, neither can the Albanians do anything if the Serbs in Kosovo decide to stay within the borders of Serbia, even though Ceku and the rest of the Albanian team are desperate to try to keep the Trepca mines, as that is the mani economic asset of Kosovo.

It ain't gonna happen buddy. If Kosovo declares independence it can kiss goodbye to the Serbs and their land in the north of Kosovo and the Trepca mines with it.

The answer to the numerous Albanian questions of "Are you only interested in the economic assets of Kosovo, not the cultural heritage of Kosovo?". My personal answer to that would be YES, the same answer as Ceku's and the Albanians team.

It'll be interesting to see how much/little financial support the US will provide you with if 1) you declare independence , and 2)the Serbs decide to stay within Serbia with their mines.

Without £150 BILLION (there is estimated to be 15 BIllion tons of coal alone under Kosovo)of mineral wealth under ALbanian control I don't think the Americans will be interested in doing much business with you, as you'll have little to offer them!!!

Once again, totally differing viewpoints. Albanians feel they have no guarantee under Serbian rule, Serbs feel they have no guarantee under Kosovar rule.

At the end of the day, I honestly think that Partition will be the final outcome from this whole story. If Kosovo breaks away, why wouldn't the Serbs wish to go back to Serbia (especially considering that Kosovo is a province whose territorial integrity is not defended by 1244)?

There is no clear cut solution to this, that is for sure, because none will live with the other!

Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs"
“Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs”
"Only independence can benefit Kosovo Serbs"

Just trying to see if I say it often enough, will it come true?

If you believe this to be a true statement, then please believe me when I say that I have valuable swamp land for sale in Mississippi.

Well, if Kosovo gains idependence from Serbia by K-Albanians threatening violence if they don't, what is stopping Serbs making the same threats?

If the US believes in their own democracy then they will have no objection to Serbia holding a referendum on this. The whole country, including Kosovo takes part is this referendum and what the majority decides should happen.
You can't have a certain minority ethnic group who happen to be a majority in one province decide for all the people of that country. Include the whole population or don't include any.
If the vote then comes back in favour of independence then by all means implement it.

Somehow I doubt it will and the mighty US will never allow this democratic process to take place because they know it would not go their way.

If the US doesn't agree with this then RS and Croatians from Herzegovina have every right to hold their own referendums and simply threten violence if they aren't granted independence from Bosnia. Mr Bush you have to be consistent.

Best from Bucharest,
George
(george, 2. October 2007 16:44
"The problem is that Kosovo Albanians will be happy for the next days after the independence, maybe weeks.
Then they will see that Kosovo still has powercuts, shortage of water, unemployment, lack of visas to go abroad etc. And what will happen next? "


George,
Thanks for your concern but don't worry about us, we can take care of everything.

Albanian won't be happy just for few weeks but for the rest of their lives and many centuries to come.

The biggest threat of their lives was Serbia and thanks God this threat is being vanished once and for all, hence Albanians will live happy ever after.

Also, if you managed to get into EU then for us it will be even easier.Actually we don't have to go to EU at all, we are inviting them to come to Kosova instead. We Albanians are known world wide to be good hosts for our friends for many centuries. We might ask EU to transfer the Brussels' offices into Prishtina as well, and why not? They can run EU policies from new capital of EU, Prishtina.:)

As for Visa and going abroad, well that tells us how far you are from reality in Kosova.

Didn't you know that about half a million of Albanians live all over EU and USA, Australia and New Zeland?

For most of Albanians there was never a visa problem because almost all Albanians have a son or a daughter abroad. A simple application to nearest embassy and voila, as if by magic they get visa with no additional question asked.

Me personally for the last 14 years that I live in UK, I managed to bring all my family, friends and cousins to visit London with no problem at all. Actually my family, now they get 1 year visa instead of 6 month unlike others.

They came to visit me so often that UK embassy decided to grant them with 1 year visa instead of initially 6 month.

Mike:
" think decentralization and local self government, guaranteed and protected by institutional law - something the K-Serbs have been demanding for so long - can benefit Kosovo's Serbs"

Honestly Mike, what is different about this from the provisions of the Ahtissari Plan re the minority areas, the Plan that Serbia so strongly objects to?
I wonder how many commenting here have actually read the plan.

"The whole country, including Kosovo takes part is this referendum and what the majority decides should happen.
You can't have a certain minority ethnic group who happen to be a majority in one province decide for all the people of that country. Include the whole population or don't include any.
If the vote then comes back in favour of independence then by all means implement it.
"

How is that supposed to be democratic, when the issue of Kosova/o doesn't even concern the daily life of the people leaving in Serbia proper. How is it democratic for the aggressor to decide for the people it killed and just 8 years ago. It is because this twisted ideas of democracy that Serbia is offering that cutting all ties with Serbia is an urgent matter for us Albanians.

Romania has a long way to go, but it is far ahead of Kosovo, that is for sure!

Anyway, this sort of one sided argument is presented by the Serbian side also, but the fact is none can guarentee the safety of the other, and the past has shown that.

I wonder what the future will bring, because there is no clear-cut solution for this. Both sides will have to sacrifice something.

Geroge i-m albanian and completely agree with you... we are dissapointed form your position regarding the ahtisari plan dipsite the close historical cultural relations that our nationas have. We were hopping on your suooprt thats all

Johny,
I see that you have no concept of democracy. You don't pick and choose which parts of the country participate in a referendum affecting the outcome of all of it's citizens.
You can have a local vote concerning local issues like which day you have as your garbage removal day, but a break up of a country is not a local issue. It concerns all the citizens of that country.
Of course Kosovo is an issue that all of Serbia is affected by. How can you say that it doesn't concern citizens in Serbia proper. Serbia proper is the whole of Serbia with both Vojvodina and Kosovo included.
When are you going to accept that Serbia is a country recognized with it's current borders and not the ones on your wish list.
You are however free not to cast your vote.

George in Bucharest,

I repeat, you are in position to lecture Kosova. It will be independent regardless what Romania does. Your arrogance is breathtaking. Kosovars earn more than your average Romanian and will not need to beat your way to make a living. And finally, with friends like you, Kosova's does not need enemies.

DimTuc,

The difference is that the Ahtisaari plan doesn't go far enough. All the guarantees given to Serbs, rest on the "good will" of the Albanians. Pardon me if I don't invest too much stock in that potential train wreck. What we need are provisions in Ahtisaari, backed up, and codified in formal political institutions the Serbs have exclusive control over. What's one of the main reasons why Albanian's don't accept Serbia's offer of autonomy? Because they fear Belgrade would rescind it on a whim. The same applies to Ahtisaari in Kosovo for Serbs.

I like to call it Ahtisaari Plus.