EU defense chiefs favor Kosovo agreement

mutually acceptable...sounds like compromise, doesn´t it?

my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over... the US want you to escalate the whole thing..

it seems like the europeans are showing a lot more responsibility in regard to the KiM-issue.

come to reason, before it is too late.

Ceku can announce independence the same way that I can announce I am the King of Spain. If it is not recognized by anyone, it means nothing. So go ahead albanians, announce it all you want, nobody will be listening and you will lose the last bit of goodwill that you surprisingly have left. Despite your daily insults towards Kostunica and Tadic, they have done a fantastic job at winning this public relations war.

Funcakes - I agree that ministers need to think about how they will react if unilateral independence is declared. I believe that the EU are thinking about this right now.

"Independence will be announce, no matter who favors what and why!"

Well, that's not strictly true is it? You can't just announce independence and expect it to be recognised, so it does matter 'who favours what and why'.

I expect that without the UN and EU backing the international troops will either leave immediately on such a declaration (the US is not going to stay there on their own) in which case not a single country could fault Serbia for sending in troops (which nobody wants to happen).

Or the international troops will have to enforce the sovereignty of Serbia and uphold 1244.

Either way, independence would not be accepted without UN approval. Even the US have said as much.

And either way violence would ensue which is the worst scenario.

I'm just waiting for the US to wake up and state clearly that they will not support such a move unless it is done through the UN. At the moment they are persisting in sabotaging any talks with the Troika.

Only they can put diplomatic pressure on both sides to ensure a mutually accepted solution. It seems that they don't really want to.

It looks like the EU has adopted Russia's stance. A mutually acceptable solution. The albanians can now view this as the final nail in the independence coffin. Looks like you've been hung out to dry. You can bet your bottom dollar that the US will have no choice but to come around to this position. With this, the albanians have been put in their place. And to think you pegged your bet on one horse, the US. Oh well, the Serbs have outdone you. Just accept it, you've lost.

"Independence will be announce, no matter who favors what and why!

What these ministers need to think about when they get together is how they are going to deal with the inevitable declaration of independence, one way or another, not about what they wish and favor and enjoy and desire.
(Funcakes, 29. September 2007 12:10)"

Reality check: Kosovo declares unilateral independence it will end up exactly the same way as Transdniestr in Moldova or Abkhazia in Georgia.

Is what the Kosovars really want?

Do they think that if they gain independence that the EU and US will pump billions of Euros/Dollars into developing the country's infrastructure and half the population is without work? Tell me, who is going to solve these issues? EU? US?

Maybe the Kosovars think that the EU will let them in they will suddenly have roads, telecommunications and banking like that elsewhere in Europe when the area is rampant with human/child trafficking and narcotics smuggling? Goodness, a lot of the region doesn't even have regular electricity or flowing water! Remind me of how many people live below the poverty line? Kosovo easily fits alongside many African countries in terms of economy.

In terms of solution, first thing would be to get rid of Ceku, then continue discussions, come to a compromise... Right now, I am sorry, but Kostunica has a far better prospect for Kosovo than Ceku!

Much to everyone's surprise, especially Washington and Pristina, Serbia has not rolled over and played dead like it was almost expected to do. When we think of it, here is just one country that has stood up to the pressures of the United States, and challenged the unity of the EU over a piece of territory nominally in its possession for the past 8 years. Whatever the negotiated outcome, Belgrade can rest assured it defended its own interests and will be rewarded accordingly at the negotiation table. Even if they lose Kosovo, even if a negotiated agreement (now mandated by the EU) is still sort of an imposed solution, Belgrade knows that Brussels will not hang Belgrade out to dry as was originally intended. Ican't put my finger on what will actually happen, but I know that compensation will be nearly equal (if not more equal considering the lack of sovereignty for 8 years) to Kosovo's loss. .

Well played, Serbia

Independence will be announce, no matter who favors what and why!

What these ministers need to think about when they get together is how they are going to deal with the inevitable declaration of independence, one way or another, not about what they wish and favor and enjoy and desire.

The best thing Serbia could have done, after creating all these wars, is play the victim and ask for compensation at the end. Innocent of genocide in Bosnia???? Please.

>> my dear Gjergi, the international court of justice made clear that Serbia is not connected to any genocide-charges. you can check if for yourself, it´s made public, you can even google it, instead of writing "please"! you can only learn, since there is a lot that you don´t seem to understand...

"I don’t understand Jovans who write comments like: “come to reason, before it is too late” and “my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over”."

you are being duped by your "friends", it seems like they are about to let you escalate the whole mess...and then...they will say that they are not responsible at all, it was the Albanians who made the mistake...
I agree with you when you say let´s see what happens...that´s what I am saying for a longer time now.. instead of "predicting" dreams and illusions of "predictors" that can´t even predict their own disappointment in a few months...

"All we can do is wait and see. Kosovo officials have already declared they will not act without the blessing of US/UK/EU. So if independence is declared one should assume some kind of agreement between Kosovo and the west has been made."
(Gjergji, 29. September 2007
21:19)
Gjergji, I think you will be very disappointed.
...the time will come that you will understand very well what I meant.

Sorry to disipoit you Kate , but US has been up all alone but Russian bear needs to wake up since they have been hybrinated for to long.
Would you come to Prishtina to enjoy fireworks in very short future? I promise that i wil never mention to you your coments on this issue.

The US is cooked. Read about all the obligations the US government will have towards returning GI's from the Middle East. It will cost billions. It's post 9/11 and Iraq and Afganistan are draining America. Do Albanians really think that Washington still cares about what happens in a southern province of Serbia? US just wants to walk away and save face, that's it! All the signals are that the EU will decide on this so called "humanitarian intervention". What an obcsene Western term. With so many people being killed around the world with "actual genocide", the Albanian Kosovo fiasco is dead in the water. My recommendation to Albanians, take the autonomy offerred to you, and try and clean up your part of Kosovo. Think of your children, and not a silly label. The "I" word will not feed them. Your leaders are only interested in themselves. Look at Ceku, this guy was a Yugoslav soldier, then a Croatian soldier, then a KLA soldier - he goes as the wind blows. War crimianals like him have been placed into power by the corrupt UN. Did everyone see the story about the filthy UN in Kosovo, last week. Peace to all.

Dragan,

If you live in Spain we could listen to your announcement with respect.

"Please read your comments with care and think for a minute. First you say you agree we should wait and see and not predict, then you say things like: “my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over”, like you know the Kosovar side will come out with some kind of disappointment. You seem to contradict yourself a little.

At the end (so we don’t end up arguing for centuries ;-) I would like to ad that I respect you as a human being and hope the day will come when we Albanians and you Serbs (I assume you’re Serb) can live together as friends and allies once again. All this hatred amongst us has gone on for far too long and has brought us nothing but misery and poverty.
(Gjergji, 30. September 2007 01:39)"

dear Gjergji, I also respect others as human beings,( and I have even three albanian friends ) well, maybe, I do not respect those who want to take away something that is not theirs...


by the way, I am actually always reading my comments before I send them out, something the albanian posters here should do too: the quality of their comments would rise sky-high, I guess.

now to your impression that I contradict myself: I don´t! it´s pretty clear what is going to happen, if some radical forces among the Albanians continue to go on with their hardcore-policy...and, I certainly do not have to tell you what I mean, right?

Albanians and Serbs can live in friendship and peacefully toghether within the serbian province of KiM. there is no need to seperate...

Albanians always say the "Serbs want the land but not the poeple",

isn´t it just the opposite, the Albanians want serbian land, but cleansed of all non-albanians?

sorry Gjergji, but first the Albanians will have to let their dreams go, then everything from economic improvement and prosperity to european integration will come by itself.

but with illegal steps, Albanians are heading into their greatest mistake. just remember the croatian Serbs, what happened when they refused to compromise.

it´s you, actually who should sit back and read carefully!

with all due respect, ( and I am certainly not anti-albanian or a racist, like some of those immature boys used to call me )
Jovan

In order to assess the likely outcome of the Kosovo talks, it is good to ask the question: Who has most to loose from a unilateral declaration of independence? The answer is that it is not Serbia - it is the EU. Take a country like Spain. Unilateral recognition of Kosovo will greatly encourage Basque separatism. The ETA will want to emulate the successful tactics of the KLA. Kosovo independence means that more Spanish policemen, more Spanish politicians will be killed. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to realise that the Spanish government will never risk such a development. Spain will never recognise Kosovo outside the boundaries of international law, outside a new UNSC resolution. The same goes for a host of other EU countries. This means that unilateral independence will unavoidibly split the EU and create great havoc within it - the European Union will become the European Disunion. Not even a politician like Kouchner wants to wreck the EU for the sake of K-Albanians. A new UNSC resolution is a sine qua non for EU unity. If in this situation, the US recognises Kosovo's independence unilaterally, they will create huge problems for Europe, which will severely damage the transatlantic relationship. Although one should not underestimate the irrationality of the current US administration, there are hopefully someone there that realises that the transatlantic relationship is more important for the US than is Kosovo independence. Now, Ischinger is a highly skilled diplomat who is acutely aware of these things. He will make sure that when the time comes in December, the Contact Group will put forth a document that will be able to pass in the UNSC - that is, a document that does not cross any red lines for Serbia.

Mike,

I agree with you on some points. The best thing Serbia could have done, after creating all these wars, is play the victim and ask for compensation at the end. Innocent of genocide in Bosnia???? Please.

Belgrade has always been a few steps ahead of its Balkans neighbours when it comes to diplomatic games.

I don’t agree with your last sentence though: “Well played, Serbia”. Have a look at the facts. The only thing Serbia has done is destroying a very wealthy country (Yugoslavia), and started all these wars where thousands of people got killed. I personally don’t think that is something to be proud about.

Unfortunately for Serbia it is now dealing with people and countries that have invented those diplomatic tricks.

I don’t understand Jovans who write comments like: “come to reason, before it is too late” and “my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over”.

All we can do is wait and see. Kosovo officials have already declared they will not act without the blessing of US/UK/EU. So if independence is declared one should assume some kind of agreement between Kosovo and the west has been made.

Jovan,

Please read your comments with care and think for a minute. First you say you agree we should wait and see and not predict, then you say things like: “my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over”, like you know the Kosovar side will come out with some kind of disappointment. You seem to contradict yourself a little.

At the end (so we don’t end up arguing for centuries ;-) I would like to ad that I respect you as a human being and hope the day will come when we Albanians and you Serbs (I assume you’re Serb) can live together as friends and allies once again. All this hatred amongst us has gone on for far too long and has brought us nothing but misery and poverty.

Enough important countries have said they will recognize the unilateral independence of Kosovo...and that's enough to run a country.

If Greece and Slovakia don't want to recognize it, Kosovo will not be losing any sleep over it.

"Enough important countries have said they will recognize the unilateral independence of Kosovo...and that's enough to run a country.

If Greece and Slovakia don't want to recognize it, Kosovo will not be losing any sleep over it.
(Funcakes, 30. September 2007 04:22)"

What countries would those be, other than the US? You think the EU supports the notion of unilateral independence? What is the point of these talks then? Only a formality?

If the Kosovars want any kind of future, they need to stop thinking that the US actually care about them and work constructively to come to a compromise with Serbia in order to allow for stability in the region that will eventually lead to EU membership and a bright future.

The US are known to say something and then stick to it in the name of policy, but the reality is that policy is their only interest. Who honestly in the US cares about Kosovo (or let's be frank, know where it even is!)?

Oh yes, and one last thing, Kosovo must be able to run itself, not be run by other nations. What is the point of Kosovo independence if it cannot run as a state?

Independence will be announce, no matter who favors what and why!

What these ministers need to think about when they get together is how they are going to deal with the inevitable declaration of independence, one way or another, not about what they wish and favor and enjoy and desire.

Sorry to disipoit you Kate , but US has been up all alone but Russian bear needs to wake up since they have been hybrinated for to long.
Would you come to Prishtina to enjoy fireworks in very short future? I promise that i wil never mention to you your coments on this issue.

mutually acceptable...sounds like compromise, doesn´t it?

my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over... the US want you to escalate the whole thing..

it seems like the europeans are showing a lot more responsibility in regard to the KiM-issue.

come to reason, before it is too late.

Dragan,

If you live in Spain we could listen to your announcement with respect.

It looks like the EU has adopted Russia's stance. A mutually acceptable solution. The albanians can now view this as the final nail in the independence coffin. Looks like you've been hung out to dry. You can bet your bottom dollar that the US will have no choice but to come around to this position. With this, the albanians have been put in their place. And to think you pegged your bet on one horse, the US. Oh well, the Serbs have outdone you. Just accept it, you've lost.

Funcakes - I agree that ministers need to think about how they will react if unilateral independence is declared. I believe that the EU are thinking about this right now.

"Independence will be announce, no matter who favors what and why!"

Well, that's not strictly true is it? You can't just announce independence and expect it to be recognised, so it does matter 'who favours what and why'.

I expect that without the UN and EU backing the international troops will either leave immediately on such a declaration (the US is not going to stay there on their own) in which case not a single country could fault Serbia for sending in troops (which nobody wants to happen).

Or the international troops will have to enforce the sovereignty of Serbia and uphold 1244.

Either way, independence would not be accepted without UN approval. Even the US have said as much.

And either way violence would ensue which is the worst scenario.

I'm just waiting for the US to wake up and state clearly that they will not support such a move unless it is done through the UN. At the moment they are persisting in sabotaging any talks with the Troika.

Only they can put diplomatic pressure on both sides to ensure a mutually accepted solution. It seems that they don't really want to.

Ceku can announce independence the same way that I can announce I am the King of Spain. If it is not recognized by anyone, it means nothing. So go ahead albanians, announce it all you want, nobody will be listening and you will lose the last bit of goodwill that you surprisingly have left. Despite your daily insults towards Kostunica and Tadic, they have done a fantastic job at winning this public relations war.

Enough important countries have said they will recognize the unilateral independence of Kosovo...and that's enough to run a country.

If Greece and Slovakia don't want to recognize it, Kosovo will not be losing any sleep over it.

Much to everyone's surprise, especially Washington and Pristina, Serbia has not rolled over and played dead like it was almost expected to do. When we think of it, here is just one country that has stood up to the pressures of the United States, and challenged the unity of the EU over a piece of territory nominally in its possession for the past 8 years. Whatever the negotiated outcome, Belgrade can rest assured it defended its own interests and will be rewarded accordingly at the negotiation table. Even if they lose Kosovo, even if a negotiated agreement (now mandated by the EU) is still sort of an imposed solution, Belgrade knows that Brussels will not hang Belgrade out to dry as was originally intended. Ican't put my finger on what will actually happen, but I know that compensation will be nearly equal (if not more equal considering the lack of sovereignty for 8 years) to Kosovo's loss. .

Well played, Serbia

"Independence will be announce, no matter who favors what and why!

What these ministers need to think about when they get together is how they are going to deal with the inevitable declaration of independence, one way or another, not about what they wish and favor and enjoy and desire.
(Funcakes, 29. September 2007 12:10)"

Reality check: Kosovo declares unilateral independence it will end up exactly the same way as Transdniestr in Moldova or Abkhazia in Georgia.

Is what the Kosovars really want?

Do they think that if they gain independence that the EU and US will pump billions of Euros/Dollars into developing the country's infrastructure and half the population is without work? Tell me, who is going to solve these issues? EU? US?

Maybe the Kosovars think that the EU will let them in they will suddenly have roads, telecommunications and banking like that elsewhere in Europe when the area is rampant with human/child trafficking and narcotics smuggling? Goodness, a lot of the region doesn't even have regular electricity or flowing water! Remind me of how many people live below the poverty line? Kosovo easily fits alongside many African countries in terms of economy.

In terms of solution, first thing would be to get rid of Ceku, then continue discussions, come to a compromise... Right now, I am sorry, but Kostunica has a far better prospect for Kosovo than Ceku!

Mike,

I agree with you on some points. The best thing Serbia could have done, after creating all these wars, is play the victim and ask for compensation at the end. Innocent of genocide in Bosnia???? Please.

Belgrade has always been a few steps ahead of its Balkans neighbours when it comes to diplomatic games.

I don’t agree with your last sentence though: “Well played, Serbia”. Have a look at the facts. The only thing Serbia has done is destroying a very wealthy country (Yugoslavia), and started all these wars where thousands of people got killed. I personally don’t think that is something to be proud about.

Unfortunately for Serbia it is now dealing with people and countries that have invented those diplomatic tricks.

I don’t understand Jovans who write comments like: “come to reason, before it is too late” and “my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over”.

All we can do is wait and see. Kosovo officials have already declared they will not act without the blessing of US/UK/EU. So if independence is declared one should assume some kind of agreement between Kosovo and the west has been made.

The best thing Serbia could have done, after creating all these wars, is play the victim and ask for compensation at the end. Innocent of genocide in Bosnia???? Please.

>> my dear Gjergi, the international court of justice made clear that Serbia is not connected to any genocide-charges. you can check if for yourself, it´s made public, you can even google it, instead of writing "please"! you can only learn, since there is a lot that you don´t seem to understand...

"I don’t understand Jovans who write comments like: “come to reason, before it is too late” and “my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over”."

you are being duped by your "friends", it seems like they are about to let you escalate the whole mess...and then...they will say that they are not responsible at all, it was the Albanians who made the mistake...
I agree with you when you say let´s see what happens...that´s what I am saying for a longer time now.. instead of "predicting" dreams and illusions of "predictors" that can´t even predict their own disappointment in a few months...

"All we can do is wait and see. Kosovo officials have already declared they will not act without the blessing of US/UK/EU. So if independence is declared one should assume some kind of agreement between Kosovo and the west has been made."
(Gjergji, 29. September 2007
21:19)
Gjergji, I think you will be very disappointed.
...the time will come that you will understand very well what I meant.

Jovan,

Please read your comments with care and think for a minute. First you say you agree we should wait and see and not predict, then you say things like: “my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over”, like you know the Kosovar side will come out with some kind of disappointment. You seem to contradict yourself a little.

At the end (so we don’t end up arguing for centuries ;-) I would like to ad that I respect you as a human being and hope the day will come when we Albanians and you Serbs (I assume you’re Serb) can live together as friends and allies once again. All this hatred amongst us has gone on for far too long and has brought us nothing but misery and poverty.

The US is cooked. Read about all the obligations the US government will have towards returning GI's from the Middle East. It will cost billions. It's post 9/11 and Iraq and Afganistan are draining America. Do Albanians really think that Washington still cares about what happens in a southern province of Serbia? US just wants to walk away and save face, that's it! All the signals are that the EU will decide on this so called "humanitarian intervention". What an obcsene Western term. With so many people being killed around the world with "actual genocide", the Albanian Kosovo fiasco is dead in the water. My recommendation to Albanians, take the autonomy offerred to you, and try and clean up your part of Kosovo. Think of your children, and not a silly label. The "I" word will not feed them. Your leaders are only interested in themselves. Look at Ceku, this guy was a Yugoslav soldier, then a Croatian soldier, then a KLA soldier - he goes as the wind blows. War crimianals like him have been placed into power by the corrupt UN. Did everyone see the story about the filthy UN in Kosovo, last week. Peace to all.

"Enough important countries have said they will recognize the unilateral independence of Kosovo...and that's enough to run a country.

If Greece and Slovakia don't want to recognize it, Kosovo will not be losing any sleep over it.
(Funcakes, 30. September 2007 04:22)"

What countries would those be, other than the US? You think the EU supports the notion of unilateral independence? What is the point of these talks then? Only a formality?

If the Kosovars want any kind of future, they need to stop thinking that the US actually care about them and work constructively to come to a compromise with Serbia in order to allow for stability in the region that will eventually lead to EU membership and a bright future.

The US are known to say something and then stick to it in the name of policy, but the reality is that policy is their only interest. Who honestly in the US cares about Kosovo (or let's be frank, know where it even is!)?

Oh yes, and one last thing, Kosovo must be able to run itself, not be run by other nations. What is the point of Kosovo independence if it cannot run as a state?

"Please read your comments with care and think for a minute. First you say you agree we should wait and see and not predict, then you say things like: “my dear albanian friends, it´s time to think it over”, like you know the Kosovar side will come out with some kind of disappointment. You seem to contradict yourself a little.

At the end (so we don’t end up arguing for centuries ;-) I would like to ad that I respect you as a human being and hope the day will come when we Albanians and you Serbs (I assume you’re Serb) can live together as friends and allies once again. All this hatred amongst us has gone on for far too long and has brought us nothing but misery and poverty.
(Gjergji, 30. September 2007 01:39)"

dear Gjergji, I also respect others as human beings,( and I have even three albanian friends ) well, maybe, I do not respect those who want to take away something that is not theirs...


by the way, I am actually always reading my comments before I send them out, something the albanian posters here should do too: the quality of their comments would rise sky-high, I guess.

now to your impression that I contradict myself: I don´t! it´s pretty clear what is going to happen, if some radical forces among the Albanians continue to go on with their hardcore-policy...and, I certainly do not have to tell you what I mean, right?

Albanians and Serbs can live in friendship and peacefully toghether within the serbian province of KiM. there is no need to seperate...

Albanians always say the "Serbs want the land but not the poeple",

isn´t it just the opposite, the Albanians want serbian land, but cleansed of all non-albanians?

sorry Gjergji, but first the Albanians will have to let their dreams go, then everything from economic improvement and prosperity to european integration will come by itself.

but with illegal steps, Albanians are heading into their greatest mistake. just remember the croatian Serbs, what happened when they refused to compromise.

it´s you, actually who should sit back and read carefully!

with all due respect, ( and I am certainly not anti-albanian or a racist, like some of those immature boys used to call me )
Jovan

In order to assess the likely outcome of the Kosovo talks, it is good to ask the question: Who has most to loose from a unilateral declaration of independence? The answer is that it is not Serbia - it is the EU. Take a country like Spain. Unilateral recognition of Kosovo will greatly encourage Basque separatism. The ETA will want to emulate the successful tactics of the KLA. Kosovo independence means that more Spanish policemen, more Spanish politicians will be killed. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to realise that the Spanish government will never risk such a development. Spain will never recognise Kosovo outside the boundaries of international law, outside a new UNSC resolution. The same goes for a host of other EU countries. This means that unilateral independence will unavoidibly split the EU and create great havoc within it - the European Union will become the European Disunion. Not even a politician like Kouchner wants to wreck the EU for the sake of K-Albanians. A new UNSC resolution is a sine qua non for EU unity. If in this situation, the US recognises Kosovo's independence unilaterally, they will create huge problems for Europe, which will severely damage the transatlantic relationship. Although one should not underestimate the irrationality of the current US administration, there are hopefully someone there that realises that the transatlantic relationship is more important for the US than is Kosovo independence. Now, Ischinger is a highly skilled diplomat who is acutely aware of these things. He will make sure that when the time comes in December, the Contact Group will put forth a document that will be able to pass in the UNSC - that is, a document that does not cross any red lines for Serbia.