Alexandros and Andreas,
I totally agree with you. The present day 'Macedonians' are Slavic people, not Hellenic, and have absolutely nothing to do with Alexander the Great. The fact that they named an airport after him is rather humorous. This is an issue of one people trying to usurp another's culture and history, and that is just plain wrong. They should change the name to the Republic of Skopje or something like that, end of story. End of problem.
I don't believe Skopje is a direct threat to Greece - it would be if it could, but it can't. However, that doesn't change one iota of what I have stated above, nor does the pathetic regurgitation of the tired old myth that Skopje is the eternal underdog and victim and should therefore be given carte blanche to appropriate Macedonia's name and heritage as it sees fit.
In my previous comment I have said that anything else is excuses.
This is what we read in the comment above. Excuses.
For someone to judge the issue correctly should be able to look at the future. 10,20,30 yrs after.
In this context FYROM had at least two to three other names to select from for its name. Instead they have selected this one in order to gain specific advantages and create specific problems.
For Greece, Macedonia is Greece like Crete, Thessaly and all other regions of Greece. So Skopje can unite with Greece. Why not?
Yes, this is boring, and Greeks by their own constant complaints and childish reactions are only discrediting and hurting themselves. The comments by Alexandros and Andreas illustrate well how removed from reality the Greek position is. It would be funny - only if it wasn't the official position of the successive Greeks govts. Some of their statements are blatant lies.
The claim that Macedonia has territorial aspirations towards Greece is laughable and a cruel lie. Macedonia, a country of 2mil people, clinging to maintain territorial integrity to this day (ie. 2001 conflict, 25% restive Albanian minority), poor country with little or no economy, no army to speak of, etc. This country is a serious threat to Greece's northern province, Greece a stable NATO/EU member, with strong army and economy, etc.
No one from the commentators above has addressed the real issues of the Skopje/FYROM problem. And these are:
1. FYROM is 'used' by US mainly to protect the alternative routes of gas and oil to Europe
2. The newest US army bases in Europe are in FYROM and Kosssovo proving the strategic importance given by US
3.FYROM follows a long term policy of undercover territorial claims over Greece thru books, paid ads, conferneces etc.
4.FYROM goverment and institutions have clearly said that Thessaloniki is their capital which is now 'hostage' to Greece.
Therefore the name issue is very real and very true, it is just a tool to 'create' a country -ex-Serb province- and create long term problems for Greece.
Anything else is just excuses.
It may be "boring" to you, because you don't have to live with the consequences, do you? It's very easy to pontificate on far-away disputes that have no bearing on your life in any way. "Irregardless" of what you think, Greece is right to object to the usurpation of her heritage. It's not just about the name, it's about everything that goes along with it, including the entire history of Macedonia that the former Yugoslav Republic claims as its own. A recent example was the renaming of Skopje Airport to "Alexander the Great"; he himself never stepped foot anywhere near the area, as the ancient kingdom of Macedon was located in northern Greece. Bulgarian history has similarly been subjected to a campaign of falsification by the "Macedonists", who claim that the medieval Bulgarian kingdoms were actually "Macedonian", a nation invented by the Comintern in the 1930s and formalised by Tito's Yugoslavia in the 1940s.
The problem is essentially one of historicity and mutual respect; the FYROM cannot demand an absolute right to self-determination when it denies the same right to the *majority* of Macedonians, i.e. the inhabitants of the geographical region of Macedonia, who live in Greece and identify as Macedonians *and* Greeks. Skopje's claim to represent *the* Macedonians is offensive to those 2.5 million Macedonians who do not share its brand of revisionist and irredentist ethnic nationalism.
As for the Greeks creating and maintaining a "lie", I suggest you start reading some Herodotus, specifically The Histories 1.56 and 8.43.
It's beyond belief that Greece has gotten away with psychic thievery for so long!!! Macedonia is Greek indeed!
There's a saying; it takes a lot of energy
to create a lie and even more to maintain it! What the Greeks so desperately want - to win the "name issue"- they can never have; they're trying to prove a negative!
God this is boring, FYROM should sign an agreement in the UN stating clearly that she has no territorial aspirations beyong her present borders. Then FYROM can become The Republic of Macedonia... problem solved.
I'm a big supporter of Greece in general but this stance is insane. Greece forgets that Alexander's state wasn't a republic (difference 'A') and that until Alexander expanded his kingdom to include the other Greek kingdoms and city states by conquest the rest of the Greeks thought them barbarians and not Greek at all (difference 'B').
It may be "boring" to you, because you don't have to live with the consequences, do you? It's very easy to pontificate on far-away disputes that have no bearing on your life in any way. "Irregardless" of what you think, Greece is right to object to the usurpation of her heritage. It's not just about the name, it's about everything that goes along with it, including the entire history of Macedonia that the former Yugoslav Republic claims as its own. A recent example was the renaming of Skopje Airport to "Alexander the Great"; he himself never stepped foot anywhere near the area, as the ancient kingdom of Macedon was located in northern Greece. Bulgarian history has similarly been subjected to a campaign of falsification by the "Macedonists", who claim that the medieval Bulgarian kingdoms were actually "Macedonian", a nation invented by the Comintern in the 1930s and formalised by Tito's Yugoslavia in the 1940s.
The problem is essentially one of historicity and mutual respect; the FYROM cannot demand an absolute right to self-determination when it denies the same right to the *majority* of Macedonians, i.e. the inhabitants of the geographical region of Macedonia, who live in Greece and identify as Macedonians *and* Greeks. Skopje's claim to represent *the* Macedonians is offensive to those 2.5 million Macedonians who do not share its brand of revisionist and irredentist ethnic nationalism.
As for the Greeks creating and maintaining a "lie", I suggest you start reading some Herodotus, specifically The Histories 1.56 and 8.43.
God this is boring, FYROM should sign an agreement in the UN stating clearly that she has no territorial aspirations beyong her present borders. Then FYROM can become The Republic of Macedonia... problem solved.
I'm a big supporter of Greece in general but this stance is insane. Greece forgets that Alexander's state wasn't a republic (difference 'A') and that until Alexander expanded his kingdom to include the other Greek kingdoms and city states by conquest the rest of the Greeks thought them barbarians and not Greek at all (difference 'B').
Alexandros and Andreas,
I totally agree with you. The present day 'Macedonians' are Slavic people, not Hellenic, and have absolutely nothing to do with Alexander the Great. The fact that they named an airport after him is rather humorous. This is an issue of one people trying to usurp another's culture and history, and that is just plain wrong. They should change the name to the Republic of Skopje or something like that, end of story. End of problem.
It's beyond belief that Greece has gotten away with psychic thievery for so long!!! Macedonia is Greek indeed!
There's a saying; it takes a lot of energy
to create a lie and even more to maintain it! What the Greeks so desperately want - to win the "name issue"- they can never have; they're trying to prove a negative!
No one from the commentators above has addressed the real issues of the Skopje/FYROM problem. And these are:
1. FYROM is 'used' by US mainly to protect the alternative routes of gas and oil to Europe
2. The newest US army bases in Europe are in FYROM and Kosssovo proving the strategic importance given by US
3.FYROM follows a long term policy of undercover territorial claims over Greece thru books, paid ads, conferneces etc.
4.FYROM goverment and institutions have clearly said that Thessaloniki is their capital which is now 'hostage' to Greece.
Therefore the name issue is very real and very true, it is just a tool to 'create' a country -ex-Serb province- and create long term problems for Greece.
Anything else is just excuses.
Yes, this is boring, and Greeks by their own constant complaints and childish reactions are only discrediting and hurting themselves. The comments by Alexandros and Andreas illustrate well how removed from reality the Greek position is. It would be funny - only if it wasn't the official position of the successive Greeks govts. Some of their statements are blatant lies.
The claim that Macedonia has territorial aspirations towards Greece is laughable and a cruel lie. Macedonia, a country of 2mil people, clinging to maintain territorial integrity to this day (ie. 2001 conflict, 25% restive Albanian minority), poor country with little or no economy, no army to speak of, etc. This country is a serious threat to Greece's northern province, Greece a stable NATO/EU member, with strong army and economy, etc.
In my previous comment I have said that anything else is excuses.
This is what we read in the comment above. Excuses.
For someone to judge the issue correctly should be able to look at the future. 10,20,30 yrs after.
In this context FYROM had at least two to three other names to select from for its name. Instead they have selected this one in order to gain specific advantages and create specific problems.
For Greece, Macedonia is Greece like Crete, Thessaly and all other regions of Greece. So Skopje can unite with Greece. Why not?
I don't believe Skopje is a direct threat to Greece - it would be if it could, but it can't. However, that doesn't change one iota of what I have stated above, nor does the pathetic regurgitation of the tired old myth that Skopje is the eternal underdog and victim and should therefore be given carte blanche to appropriate Macedonia's name and heritage as it sees fit.
It may be "boring" to you, because you don't have to live with the consequences, do you? It's very easy to pontificate on far-away disputes that have no bearing on your life in any way. "Irregardless" of what you think, Greece is right to object to the usurpation of her heritage. It's not just about the name, it's about everything that goes along with it, including the entire history of Macedonia that the former Yugoslav Republic claims as its own. A recent example was the renaming of Skopje Airport to "Alexander the Great"; he himself never stepped foot anywhere near the area, as the ancient kingdom of Macedon was located in northern Greece. Bulgarian history has similarly been subjected to a campaign of falsification by the "Macedonists", who claim that the medieval Bulgarian kingdoms were actually "Macedonian", a nation invented by the Comintern in the 1930s and formalised by Tito's Yugoslavia in the 1940s.
The problem is essentially one of historicity and mutual respect; the FYROM cannot demand an absolute right to self-determination when it denies the same right to the *majority* of Macedonians, i.e. the inhabitants of the geographical region of Macedonia, who live in Greece and identify as Macedonians *and* Greeks. Skopje's claim to represent *the* Macedonians is offensive to those 2.5 million Macedonians who do not share its brand of revisionist and irredentist ethnic nationalism.
As for the Greeks creating and maintaining a "lie", I suggest you start reading some Herodotus, specifically The Histories 1.56 and 8.43.
In my previous comment I have said that anything else is excuses.
This is what we read in the comment above. Excuses.
For someone to judge the issue correctly should be able to look at the future. 10,20,30 yrs after.
In this context FYROM had at least two to three other names to select from for its name. Instead they have selected this one in order to gain specific advantages and create specific problems.
For Greece, Macedonia is Greece like Crete, Thessaly and all other regions of Greece. So Skopje can unite with Greece. Why not?
God this is boring, FYROM should sign an agreement in the UN stating clearly that she has no territorial aspirations beyong her present borders. Then FYROM can become The Republic of Macedonia... problem solved.
I'm a big supporter of Greece in general but this stance is insane. Greece forgets that Alexander's state wasn't a republic (difference 'A') and that until Alexander expanded his kingdom to include the other Greek kingdoms and city states by conquest the rest of the Greeks thought them barbarians and not Greek at all (difference 'B').
It's beyond belief that Greece has gotten away with psychic thievery for so long!!! Macedonia is Greek indeed!
There's a saying; it takes a lot of energy
to create a lie and even more to maintain it! What the Greeks so desperately want - to win the "name issue"- they can never have; they're trying to prove a negative!
No one from the commentators above has addressed the real issues of the Skopje/FYROM problem. And these are:
1. FYROM is 'used' by US mainly to protect the alternative routes of gas and oil to Europe
2. The newest US army bases in Europe are in FYROM and Kosssovo proving the strategic importance given by US
3.FYROM follows a long term policy of undercover territorial claims over Greece thru books, paid ads, conferneces etc.
4.FYROM goverment and institutions have clearly said that Thessaloniki is their capital which is now 'hostage' to Greece.
Therefore the name issue is very real and very true, it is just a tool to 'create' a country -ex-Serb province- and create long term problems for Greece.
Anything else is just excuses.
Yes, this is boring, and Greeks by their own constant complaints and childish reactions are only discrediting and hurting themselves. The comments by Alexandros and Andreas illustrate well how removed from reality the Greek position is. It would be funny - only if it wasn't the official position of the successive Greeks govts. Some of their statements are blatant lies.
The claim that Macedonia has territorial aspirations towards Greece is laughable and a cruel lie. Macedonia, a country of 2mil people, clinging to maintain territorial integrity to this day (ie. 2001 conflict, 25% restive Albanian minority), poor country with little or no economy, no army to speak of, etc. This country is a serious threat to Greece's northern province, Greece a stable NATO/EU member, with strong army and economy, etc.
I don't believe Skopje is a direct threat to Greece - it would be if it could, but it can't. However, that doesn't change one iota of what I have stated above, nor does the pathetic regurgitation of the tired old myth that Skopje is the eternal underdog and victim and should therefore be given carte blanche to appropriate Macedonia's name and heritage as it sees fit.
Alexandros and Andreas,
I totally agree with you. The present day 'Macedonians' are Slavic people, not Hellenic, and have absolutely nothing to do with Alexander the Great. The fact that they named an airport after him is rather humorous. This is an issue of one people trying to usurp another's culture and history, and that is just plain wrong. They should change the name to the Republic of Skopje or something like that, end of story. End of problem.
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