Could Dayton-style conference work for Kosovo?

No more negotiations for Kosova after the 10th of December. President Ahtisari spend more than one year to bring the parties together. Kosova's territorial integrity untouchable and no more change of borders in the Balkan. Serbia MUST understand that Kosova is lost at least until now 95 percent according to its minister. Let's move on in finalising this unreversable process. You heard the President of the United States in Tirana George W Bush "Enough is enough" you know it it really means.

EA,

Kosovo integrity untouchable? But what about Serbi's territorial integrety?

No negotiatons? YOU SHOULD START! The Albanians only said: independence. FULL STOP!

Then I say: no independence. Full stop.

OK?

NO INDEPENDENCE. EVER! For as long as Serbia doesnt give its consent Kosovo will always remain Serbia proper.

CCCC

Albanians getting nervous?

there´s no need for federalization... broad autonomy is all what they will get.

even if there was no international law... they just do not deserve it, to get this part of Serbia.

out of question...

Ron,
You wrote that you are from the Western Europe but here you are becoming more Serb than the Serbian itself. Who is going to ask you to give one nation the independence? The Kosovar Albanians are not asking the Serbs for independence because they have won it. In other words they are not asking for permission from Serbia. They are looking for an internationally recognised settlement for Kosova which is full independence for Kosova. Kosovar Albanians fought really hard for it because their land is martirised. So sleep well and no worry about the Kosova independence.

The funny thing is that I have put forth this Dayton-model for Kosovo on this site and elsewhere and have gotten a lot of positive feedback from both Serbs and Albanians. It's a wonder why the leaders who are supposed to be competent individuals haven't thought this out.

One state. Two systems. Pristina and Mitrovica.

Federalize Kosovo.

Mike:
"The funny thing is that I have put forth this Dayton-model for Kosovo on this site and elsewhere and have gotten a lot of positive feedback from both Serbs and Albanians. It's a wonder why the leaders who are supposed to be competent individuals haven't thought this out.
One state. Two systems. Pristina and Mitrovica.
Federalize Kosovo."

Mike I suggest the reason that no one has "thought this out" (publicly) is that this would precisely be giving the game away too early. It nees to be shown that every other possible suggestion has been negotiated on until the cows come home and when all is exhausted, the magic solution appears. It will appear as a diplomatic coup by the US, or perhaps the EU, depending on the state of troika negotiations.

In the meantime, not only do the great powers want all other ideas dalt with in full and found wanting, they also want to draw out the process as long as possible, another reason for not presenting it now. I believe even the US, despite its occasinal bombast, also wants to draw it out. Its bombast is essentially a device to keep the Albanians on side and in the proces rather than doing a UDI, basically similar to the Russian stance regarding Serbia.

One reason all - US, EU, Russia - want it dragged out as long as possible (as long as they can without risking a blow-up) is the fear all have of "precedent", whether such precedent be from independece as a whole or from partition, basically the fear of the same result in both cases. Therefore, other small semi-states or minorities need to be shown that if they ever do decide to try to "follow precedent", the process will be hellishly long and tortured and they will end up with something they never imagined, perhaps in a few decades.

Much as I hate the first Dayton, which I believed rewarded genocide by giving 50% of Bosnia to a 30% Serb minority by recognising the cleansing of east Bosnia, the principle itslef is OK if there is no better alernative, and I agree with you that in this case there is not. I would prefer Ahtissari with strengthened autonomy for the Serb regions rather than confederation (and preferably without too much of that paternalistic international "supervision" either), but if a further step is necessary to get Serbs on side, so be it. f Albanians do not like it, I'm afraid they have to look at their own handling of their minority issues and the revenge and insecurity since they ousted their own brutal oppressors 8 years ago.

And unlike Dayton in Bosnia, in this case an internal confederation would not reward any ethnic cleansing on either side, which an outright partition effectively would.

EA,

I know you badly want Kosovo to be independent. But the reality is that the UN recognizes Serbian sovereignty over the province vis-a-vis 1244.

Unfortunately for you and fortunately for Belgrade, the UNSC is not the entire property of the US and the West.

Anton,

please don't associate The Scots desire for independence with the seccesionist ethnic-Albanians in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija.

The Scots have an independent history seperate from the English for many centuries before the Union of 1707. In fact the Scots can trace their history back beyond 844 when KENNETH I was King of Scotland.

I have asked on numerous occasions for a full historical accout of this mythical "kosovar" ethnicity that some wrongly suggest can become a nation state and the lack of any evidence underscores the lack of crediblity for those who promote it's creation from the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija.

Thus what else will the forced partition of Serbia create but instability in the region and world on such ill-thought precdence of creating a nation state out of another nations province. It would be more akin to creating a seperate state out of any of the english counties if the UK was dissolved. Scots and many more legitamate ethnic groups throughout the world could press for self determination but mythical "kosovars" have no historical let alone economic grounds for such folly.

The sooner the ethnic-Albanians accept the state they are in and work towards "European" ideals sooner economic development can proceed in a region that has been held back by false promises which are the real reason for it's economic regressiveness. There will be no economic development in the Serbian province while property rights are in question and any illegal move invalidate any opportunities for secure property rights.

Jovan said: even if there was no international law... they just do not deserve it, to get this part of Serbia.

Why not? BC of Trepça, is that why not "this part of Serbia"?

A Dayton style accord would be the worst possible 'solution' IMHO.
Please just look at Bosnia i Herzegovina. Do you REALLY want this sorry 'state' as the model for resolving the dispute between Serbia and the Kosovo Albanian population? The next few years could easily see further cracks appearing in the BiH 'experiment'. And of course, IF [when?] Kosovo gets independence -what about RS in BiH? the unanswewred question - it is always avoided by the west, is that Kosovo WILL be seen by those that wish it, as an international precedent.
Partition is not the answer, although IMHO I can see that for 'real politik' reasons, some 'sop' might have to be made to Belgrade.
There needs to be a process agreed whereby greater autonomy (probably leading to independence) is transferred. Maybe look at the UK Scottish parliamentary model. Almost certainly more powers will be transferred possible leading to independence. (Not the perfect collary, I agree, but it serves as one possible solution)

Princip, thank you. I am in fact a Scot, so I know all about our history. I stated that it was not a perfect collorary, what I was intending was that the political and structural relationship between the UK Parliament and the Scottish parliament might be a model for resolving the present impasse.

It seems neither side wishes to move from their pre-determined options, but there HAS to be some compromise. I offered this as one alternative approach.

No more negotiations for Kosova after the 10th of December. President Ahtisari spend more than one year to bring the parties together. Kosova's territorial integrity untouchable and no more change of borders in the Balkan. Serbia MUST understand that Kosova is lost at least until now 95 percent according to its minister. Let's move on in finalising this unreversable process. You heard the President of the United States in Tirana George W Bush "Enough is enough" you know it it really means.

Ron,
You wrote that you are from the Western Europe but here you are becoming more Serb than the Serbian itself. Who is going to ask you to give one nation the independence? The Kosovar Albanians are not asking the Serbs for independence because they have won it. In other words they are not asking for permission from Serbia. They are looking for an internationally recognised settlement for Kosova which is full independence for Kosova. Kosovar Albanians fought really hard for it because their land is martirised. So sleep well and no worry about the Kosova independence.

The funny thing is that I have put forth this Dayton-model for Kosovo on this site and elsewhere and have gotten a lot of positive feedback from both Serbs and Albanians. It's a wonder why the leaders who are supposed to be competent individuals haven't thought this out.

One state. Two systems. Pristina and Mitrovica.

Federalize Kosovo.

Albanians getting nervous?

there´s no need for federalization... broad autonomy is all what they will get.

even if there was no international law... they just do not deserve it, to get this part of Serbia.

out of question...

NO INDEPENDENCE. EVER! For as long as Serbia doesnt give its consent Kosovo will always remain Serbia proper.

CCCC

Jovan said: even if there was no international law... they just do not deserve it, to get this part of Serbia.

Why not? BC of Trepça, is that why not "this part of Serbia"?

EA,

Kosovo integrity untouchable? But what about Serbi's territorial integrety?

No negotiatons? YOU SHOULD START! The Albanians only said: independence. FULL STOP!

Then I say: no independence. Full stop.

OK?

Mike:
"The funny thing is that I have put forth this Dayton-model for Kosovo on this site and elsewhere and have gotten a lot of positive feedback from both Serbs and Albanians. It's a wonder why the leaders who are supposed to be competent individuals haven't thought this out.
One state. Two systems. Pristina and Mitrovica.
Federalize Kosovo."

Mike I suggest the reason that no one has "thought this out" (publicly) is that this would precisely be giving the game away too early. It nees to be shown that every other possible suggestion has been negotiated on until the cows come home and when all is exhausted, the magic solution appears. It will appear as a diplomatic coup by the US, or perhaps the EU, depending on the state of troika negotiations.

In the meantime, not only do the great powers want all other ideas dalt with in full and found wanting, they also want to draw out the process as long as possible, another reason for not presenting it now. I believe even the US, despite its occasinal bombast, also wants to draw it out. Its bombast is essentially a device to keep the Albanians on side and in the proces rather than doing a UDI, basically similar to the Russian stance regarding Serbia.

One reason all - US, EU, Russia - want it dragged out as long as possible (as long as they can without risking a blow-up) is the fear all have of "precedent", whether such precedent be from independece as a whole or from partition, basically the fear of the same result in both cases. Therefore, other small semi-states or minorities need to be shown that if they ever do decide to try to "follow precedent", the process will be hellishly long and tortured and they will end up with something they never imagined, perhaps in a few decades.

Much as I hate the first Dayton, which I believed rewarded genocide by giving 50% of Bosnia to a 30% Serb minority by recognising the cleansing of east Bosnia, the principle itslef is OK if there is no better alernative, and I agree with you that in this case there is not. I would prefer Ahtissari with strengthened autonomy for the Serb regions rather than confederation (and preferably without too much of that paternalistic international "supervision" either), but if a further step is necessary to get Serbs on side, so be it. f Albanians do not like it, I'm afraid they have to look at their own handling of their minority issues and the revenge and insecurity since they ousted their own brutal oppressors 8 years ago.

And unlike Dayton in Bosnia, in this case an internal confederation would not reward any ethnic cleansing on either side, which an outright partition effectively would.

EA,

I know you badly want Kosovo to be independent. But the reality is that the UN recognizes Serbian sovereignty over the province vis-a-vis 1244.

Unfortunately for you and fortunately for Belgrade, the UNSC is not the entire property of the US and the West.

A Dayton style accord would be the worst possible 'solution' IMHO.
Please just look at Bosnia i Herzegovina. Do you REALLY want this sorry 'state' as the model for resolving the dispute between Serbia and the Kosovo Albanian population? The next few years could easily see further cracks appearing in the BiH 'experiment'. And of course, IF [when?] Kosovo gets independence -what about RS in BiH? the unanswewred question - it is always avoided by the west, is that Kosovo WILL be seen by those that wish it, as an international precedent.
Partition is not the answer, although IMHO I can see that for 'real politik' reasons, some 'sop' might have to be made to Belgrade.
There needs to be a process agreed whereby greater autonomy (probably leading to independence) is transferred. Maybe look at the UK Scottish parliamentary model. Almost certainly more powers will be transferred possible leading to independence. (Not the perfect collary, I agree, but it serves as one possible solution)

Anton,

please don't associate The Scots desire for independence with the seccesionist ethnic-Albanians in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija.

The Scots have an independent history seperate from the English for many centuries before the Union of 1707. In fact the Scots can trace their history back beyond 844 when KENNETH I was King of Scotland.

I have asked on numerous occasions for a full historical accout of this mythical "kosovar" ethnicity that some wrongly suggest can become a nation state and the lack of any evidence underscores the lack of crediblity for those who promote it's creation from the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija.

Thus what else will the forced partition of Serbia create but instability in the region and world on such ill-thought precdence of creating a nation state out of another nations province. It would be more akin to creating a seperate state out of any of the english counties if the UK was dissolved. Scots and many more legitamate ethnic groups throughout the world could press for self determination but mythical "kosovars" have no historical let alone economic grounds for such folly.

The sooner the ethnic-Albanians accept the state they are in and work towards "European" ideals sooner economic development can proceed in a region that has been held back by false promises which are the real reason for it's economic regressiveness. There will be no economic development in the Serbian province while property rights are in question and any illegal move invalidate any opportunities for secure property rights.

Princip, thank you. I am in fact a Scot, so I know all about our history. I stated that it was not a perfect collorary, what I was intending was that the political and structural relationship between the UK Parliament and the Scottish parliament might be a model for resolving the present impasse.

It seems neither side wishes to move from their pre-determined options, but there HAS to be some compromise. I offered this as one alternative approach.