Cvele, you said
“Predicor
Dont say later I didnt tell u so. Kosovo is not in the Russian bears grip. It is in the US snakes layer. They dont care about you. Never have and never will. They attacked all albanians that refused to fall in line and the ones that were trying to go and escape into Serbia were ruthlessly murdered. While the Serbs attacked KLA and their goons US attacked everyone.”
I am sorry to disappoint you, but you did not succeed to convince me, neither anyone else, for sure. If US doesn’t care for us, I am sure neither Serbian politicians do not at all, let’s not talk about people.
Tell me how many Albanians were trying to go into Serbia? Of course, do not count on some (even though symbolic number) collaborators of the Milosevic regime.
Just to refresh your mind, we were escaping from your police and army to Albania (otherwise our motherland) and Macedonia, around one million, remember?. I don’t remember anyone going to the north!
The only Albanians that have “gone” to the north are actually murdered Albanian civilians by your troops (about 12000), thus to hide crimes that your army and police did, out of which 2500 are still considered as “missing”. I am sure you have heard about mass graves of Albanians in Serbia, right?
Cvele, don’t waste your energy trying to convince us in unreality, as we have witnessed all this described above and bellow.
I am sure, you never run with your child in the arm to escape from Serb troops bombing – while I did! You never experienced bullet flying above your head – did you? – I did, terrible feeling, I must admit. Not to mention that my house was burnt to ground, my business was destroyed, as all goods were stolen by army. But I really don’t care of that, as I managed to survive, and material damages are not to mention.
Cvele, calm down and think wisely. Is it worth to chat here with you?
Even with the widest autonomy imaginable we know that the Kosovars will never accept autonomy within Serbia. Serbia in the past stripped the Kosovars of this entitlement which essentially took the region into this crisis. Instead of the Kosovars heading towards a unilateral declaration of “independence”, how about a “supervised autonomy within Europe” as a solution, this sounds like a good enough compromise for both. If the Kosovars do not have the ability to maintain rights for all its citizens, or are unable to function as a modern autonomous region which is unlikely with the helping hand of Europe available to them. Europe can strip them of the entitlement and not Serbia as Milosevic did in the nineties. Serbia’s immediate goal along with its neighbors is towards a Europe without borders i.e. European integration. Serbia doesn’t have to join NATO as there are a number of countries within the EU that are not NATO members. The Kosovars should they wish can join NATO and probably will.
Both parties were reluctant on discussing partition therefore this is as close as one gets to a “mutually accepted solution”. Better to have Europe monitor the autonomy of Kosovo/a which is essentially what they’re doing anyway than go back to what the case was in the past. If a compromise is not found it will be because those in positions of influence do not want one.
"How cculd expect to more than two million Kosovar Albanians to be Serbian citizens again after all these suffering they had to go through and that because of the Serbian State of Milloshevic? "
How can you expect the Kurds / Tibetans to go back to Turkey / China after everything that happened?
Predicor
Dont say later I didnt tell u so. Kosovo is not in the Russian bears grip. It is in the US snakes layer. They dont care about you. Never have and never will. They attacked all albanians that refused to fall in line and the ones that were trying to go and escape into Serbia were ruthlessly murdered. While the Serbs attacked KLA and their goons US attacked everyone.
There is nothing Serbs can do to stop Southern Kosovo from commiting suicide unless the people there help. So take a look again...
WE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY.
EA
For your post which I missed earlier. All I will ask you is to look up the amount of taxes Serbs all over Yugoslavia paid through their nose for the development of Kosovo. I am 25 and I had never paid these taxes. However, my parents both paid and were happy to pay. Slovenia never paid. Even Croatia was taxed for Kosovo. Even under Milosevic there were huge projects for schools, roads, railways, bridges, hydro and so on and so on. Not to mention under Tito who personally Godfathered all Albanians that had 7 or more children.
Serbs have been there to help the development and had not judged you or took revenge after WW2 for your betrayal to the Nazis.
Now as for independence that is long gone. It is never going to happen. However, you should take this opertunity and milk EU for what its worth. We can have a golden path together. Or Serbia can have a dirt road alone. As for you, there will never be any independence and therefore no EU.
These are facts. Situation on the ground supports this.
Ron
Why you so embaresed to say that you are from Leskovac and probably you moved there on 1999 claiming that you were from Kosovo just to get stay in Holand is it true?
"Everyone knows very well that compromise on future status of Kosova is impossible, neither from Albanian or Serb side. "
written by "predictor"
Germany and France...fought each other in several wars, over several centuries, ...just a little bit over a decade ago, we could witness Mr.Kohl the german chancelor and Mr.Mitterand, the french counterpart, standing shoulder to shoulder and holding hands as a sign of a peaceful "TOGETHER", the serbian-albanian conflict is not that old, it started with the nationalism that was "founded" by the socalled "Prizren-League" ...so, there is nothing like a long history of serbian-albanian conflict, ...and you will certainly know what I am trying to explain to you, right?
no, predictor, this is a serious issue, indeed. and that´s the reason why Albanians should not and will not be rewarded with independence, for bombing cafe´s with youths drinking coffee inside, killing albanian postmen and serbian policemen...
Ron and to whom it may concern,
Have a look of that for your informations. It is the Rambouillet Agreement which Albanian initially hasitated to sign and Serbian State of Milloshevic refused to sign which triggered the NATO bombing. http://www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/ksvo_rambouillet_text.html
Cvele, CCCC said:
"We are offering you good and prosperous lives in the EU. Nothing less."
Cvele, I can clearly see your “good” intentions, BUT, NO THANKS.
Let us to live “poor and unhappy” in our independent country. Independent, even without UN (or self imposed isolation as you call it), even under US control, but not yours (meaning Serbia).
Leave us alone. Let’s live as a good neighbors. I think we can do it!
Firstly thanks for your questions to me.
When I write about the very need of Kosova's independence it is all about firstly the Sovereignity and secondly in the context of the running its own domestic affairs. Should have not been a war in Kosova then we could have been discussing here all the time about a substatial autonomy or whatever and Serbia could have had a moral right to ask and insist on sovereignity.
The second concept of a substantial autonomy is accepted now by the Serbian governement but it is too little, to late in time, not realistic and sincere. How cculd expect to more than two million Kosovar Albanians to be Serbian citizens again after all these suffering they had to go through and that because of the Serbian State of Milloshevic?
Referring to your question about the high crime and unemployment in Kosova I would agree but it is also true that that is linked akso the history of the former Yugoslavia. When you look into the Kosova issue you MUST look in its history. As far as I know Kosova has been the poorest region of the ex-Yugoslavia. Now that is one of the reason why the Status of Kosova and its Sovereignity it is so importatant to enable the Kosova government to be partner of international institutions, being able to have bi-laterial and multilateral relations with other countries, to be able to fight the crime and corruption effectively and get assitance from the international community without having to ask the permission from Belgrade. I believe that Kosova leadership is taking all the steps to find a peaceful solution to their goal which is ultemetely independence by working with the international parteners and the UN. It is needed more time to get Russia on board to realise that Kosova independence is the most realistic solution. I believe it will be good for Serbia to free itself.
Ron said:
And if you want full independence why you agreed on autonomy in 1999. Why are you lying?
(Ron, 21. September 2007 18:19)
Ron, if you are so familiar with 1999 agreement, why you do not point out the fact that our delegation agreed to three years extended autonomy for Kosova, under condition that after three years, people of Kosova to hold a referendum to declare whether to stay in “union” or to definitely split, and finally become independent? That’s actually the main reason why Serbian delegation rejected it. So, independence was and is the main goal for us. And independence will happen. Leave us alone, let’s start living in new created reality: Kosova and Serbia as a good neighbors! If you really mean what are you writing here, than this fact will maybe sound senseless to you, but there is nothing you can do about.
Predictor
Independence is a dead horse. It is not coming. It is obvious you do not care about your own people. Not one bit. You would rather starve 2 milion of ur own people in a self imposed isolation (you call it independence without UN), then be in the EU governing urself with certain aspects of actual independence but in an autonomous province of Kosovo. Meanwhile, if u dont trust us. Have EU monitoring the situation and ur progress... WE INSIST.
I REPEAT TO U. It is NOT in Serbian interest to have poor and unhappy citizens in our Southern province. No one wants a conflict and no one (except U.S.) wants Albanians to suffer this economic and criminal hell they are in right now. That way they can control you with absolutely no opposition.
We are offering you good and prosperous lives in the EU. Nothing less.
Cvele, Ron, Princip (disappeared these days), Kate (pretending non Serb as well as Ron), read my comments posted above, here, as they are really serious, I have not wrote them just to oppose you.
I can guaranty you, that there is no power in the world that can bring us back under Serbia (even formally as BG politicians want actually). Take this, as a serious answer pls. and stop puting oil on the fire. At last, this is not a game, this is very serious and important issue, and we can't allow ourselves to tell whatever we want.
To Njazi:
I assume that by "genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, systimatical rape, random execution of civilians" you are referring to what the albanians have been doing to the Serbs over the last 60 years.
We will not, as I am will neither, “give up” things as you said! Even a not recognized independence (meaning firstly by some EU countries) is best solution, much-much better solution than going back into the Serb regime. We will proceed, everyone in the world knows that, regardless of recognition. Even without UN, WB, IMF, WTO etc. membership. Even if we are threatened with NATO withdrawal, or even “worse” UN withdrawal. YES, we will become independent, recognized or not, with or without international protection, with or without international aid, with or without Serbia’s (meaning Russia’s) agreement.
I repeat my self, leave us alone, there is nothing you can do about it!
BER@TGRa
"Here we go screaming about who said what. Isn't the welfare of those who are just waiting for a decision instead of those who do not live here and i have to walk 1 mile to and from the main road to get to work. Why my road is so bad and during winter it is iced over and the dogs chase me. I am tired of this madness i want a decision either you help us with independence or help us to live within Serbia. I have lost all hope and i want to have an answer so i can raise my child safe and secure. Please stop this madness of who said or did what."
From my posts u can gather I am pretty pro-Serb. That means in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that I am Anti-Albanian. I beleieve we can live together and Albanians living within Serbia should have the same rights as Serbs. I believe that we need the international community for progress assistance but its deffinetely not up to EU or US or Russia to do this for us. Its only up to us.
Serbs have offered autonomy under UN/EU mandate. If I were in your place I would say to the West. "Look we can accept autonomy but only if Serbia as a whole enters EU with Croatia in 2009. This would benefit both us and u. I know you can understand this.
Everyone knows very well that compromise on future status of Kosova is impossible, neither from Albanian or Serb side.
Would that be a mistake or not, I am sure that Albanians are ready to take that step, declaring independence, regardless of consequences, as every possible scenario could not be worse than staying within Serbia borders.
In other words, my dear B-92 friends commenting here, Kosova has nothing to loose, in both cases, either UN SC resolution or unilateral declaration, while staying within Serb jurisdiction is, once and forever, out of question.
It’s crystal clear how some of the commentators here are trying to scare other pro-independence commentators, as well as is Russia foreign affairs doing to the world, that unilateral declaration would destabilize the region. But there is no “scenario” that could scare us more than going back into the Serb rule. So, leave us alone, it’s over, once and forever. Just, be a good neighbor. Goodbye “union”!
EA
Kosovo according to you is already independent. Then Why is no one investing? Why are there no jobs? Why is crime so rampant? Why is the only legal document about Kosovo confirming that its part of Serbia? Why must you wait on UN to decide if they will let you do anything you want? Why do they call elections for you at the worst time possible? I think you should reconsider your statement.
CCCC
Here we go screaming about who said what. Isn't the welfare of those who are just waiting for a decision instead of those who do not live here and i have to walk 1 mile to and from the main road to get to work. Why my road is so bad and during winter it is iced over and the dogs chase me. I am tired of this madness i want a decision either you help us with independence or help us to live within Serbia. I have lost all hope and i want to have an answer so i can raise my child safe and secure. Please stop this madness of who said or did what.
EA, you Albanians are amazing with your ability to distort history. First you claim that you were independent between 1389 and 1912 even though you were occupied by Ottoman empire, now you're already rewriting history after just 8 years and claim to have been independent even though you are "practically" occupied by NATO.
Aren't genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, systimatical rape, random execution of civilians... violations of international law? Where was Russia when that was happening?
Does anybody really believe that this will fly?
"For our part, we have called on the two parties to put forward possible compromise solutions, to consider constructive and creative ideas, fresh ideas, which might encourage the other side to accept a constructive approach," he (Alekseyev) added.
But Alexseyev "forgot" to say that Russia is againist the independence of Kosova and also "forgot" to say that his country has to be realistic and accept the will of people of Kosova to be independent from Serbia. He also "forgot" to say the main issue now is the sovereignity over Kosova as practically Kosova is independent since 1999. I think the Frendship Pact between two independent courtries Kosova and Serbia, free movement of goods and people, common policies in fighting corruption and crimes are great ideas and can be implemented very quicky with amazing results if the Serbs and Russian really want. These would be some realistic and very fresh constructive ideas. Any other statements about a "possible compromise" when it comes to Sovereignity of Kosova is misleading, elusiva and ill-intended, just to delay as long as possible the independence of Kosova.
Now compare this serious and decent attitude with the almost comical "independence now!!" attitude that certain western papers have been systematically advocated for the past 3-4 years.
Now compare this serious and decent attitude with the almost comical "independence now!!" attitude that certain western papers have been systematically advocated for the past 3-4 years.
"For our part, we have called on the two parties to put forward possible compromise solutions, to consider constructive and creative ideas, fresh ideas, which might encourage the other side to accept a constructive approach," he (Alekseyev) added.
But Alexseyev "forgot" to say that Russia is againist the independence of Kosova and also "forgot" to say that his country has to be realistic and accept the will of people of Kosova to be independent from Serbia. He also "forgot" to say the main issue now is the sovereignity over Kosova as practically Kosova is independent since 1999. I think the Frendship Pact between two independent courtries Kosova and Serbia, free movement of goods and people, common policies in fighting corruption and crimes are great ideas and can be implemented very quicky with amazing results if the Serbs and Russian really want. These would be some realistic and very fresh constructive ideas. Any other statements about a "possible compromise" when it comes to Sovereignity of Kosova is misleading, elusiva and ill-intended, just to delay as long as possible the independence of Kosova.
To Njazi:
I assume that by "genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, systimatical rape, random execution of civilians" you are referring to what the albanians have been doing to the Serbs over the last 60 years.
EA, you Albanians are amazing with your ability to distort history. First you claim that you were independent between 1389 and 1912 even though you were occupied by Ottoman empire, now you're already rewriting history after just 8 years and claim to have been independent even though you are "practically" occupied by NATO.
BER@TGRa
"Here we go screaming about who said what. Isn't the welfare of those who are just waiting for a decision instead of those who do not live here and i have to walk 1 mile to and from the main road to get to work. Why my road is so bad and during winter it is iced over and the dogs chase me. I am tired of this madness i want a decision either you help us with independence or help us to live within Serbia. I have lost all hope and i want to have an answer so i can raise my child safe and secure. Please stop this madness of who said or did what."
From my posts u can gather I am pretty pro-Serb. That means in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that I am Anti-Albanian. I beleieve we can live together and Albanians living within Serbia should have the same rights as Serbs. I believe that we need the international community for progress assistance but its deffinetely not up to EU or US or Russia to do this for us. Its only up to us.
Serbs have offered autonomy under UN/EU mandate. If I were in your place I would say to the West. "Look we can accept autonomy but only if Serbia as a whole enters EU with Croatia in 2009. This would benefit both us and u. I know you can understand this.
Predictor
Independence is a dead horse. It is not coming. It is obvious you do not care about your own people. Not one bit. You would rather starve 2 milion of ur own people in a self imposed isolation (you call it independence without UN), then be in the EU governing urself with certain aspects of actual independence but in an autonomous province of Kosovo. Meanwhile, if u dont trust us. Have EU monitoring the situation and ur progress... WE INSIST.
I REPEAT TO U. It is NOT in Serbian interest to have poor and unhappy citizens in our Southern province. No one wants a conflict and no one (except U.S.) wants Albanians to suffer this economic and criminal hell they are in right now. That way they can control you with absolutely no opposition.
We are offering you good and prosperous lives in the EU. Nothing less.
EA
Kosovo according to you is already independent. Then Why is no one investing? Why are there no jobs? Why is crime so rampant? Why is the only legal document about Kosovo confirming that its part of Serbia? Why must you wait on UN to decide if they will let you do anything you want? Why do they call elections for you at the worst time possible? I think you should reconsider your statement.
CCCC
Firstly thanks for your questions to me.
When I write about the very need of Kosova's independence it is all about firstly the Sovereignity and secondly in the context of the running its own domestic affairs. Should have not been a war in Kosova then we could have been discussing here all the time about a substatial autonomy or whatever and Serbia could have had a moral right to ask and insist on sovereignity.
The second concept of a substantial autonomy is accepted now by the Serbian governement but it is too little, to late in time, not realistic and sincere. How cculd expect to more than two million Kosovar Albanians to be Serbian citizens again after all these suffering they had to go through and that because of the Serbian State of Milloshevic?
Referring to your question about the high crime and unemployment in Kosova I would agree but it is also true that that is linked akso the history of the former Yugoslavia. When you look into the Kosova issue you MUST look in its history. As far as I know Kosova has been the poorest region of the ex-Yugoslavia. Now that is one of the reason why the Status of Kosova and its Sovereignity it is so importatant to enable the Kosova government to be partner of international institutions, being able to have bi-laterial and multilateral relations with other countries, to be able to fight the crime and corruption effectively and get assitance from the international community without having to ask the permission from Belgrade. I believe that Kosova leadership is taking all the steps to find a peaceful solution to their goal which is ultemetely independence by working with the international parteners and the UN. It is needed more time to get Russia on board to realise that Kosova independence is the most realistic solution. I believe it will be good for Serbia to free itself.
"Everyone knows very well that compromise on future status of Kosova is impossible, neither from Albanian or Serb side. "
written by "predictor"
Germany and France...fought each other in several wars, over several centuries, ...just a little bit over a decade ago, we could witness Mr.Kohl the german chancelor and Mr.Mitterand, the french counterpart, standing shoulder to shoulder and holding hands as a sign of a peaceful "TOGETHER", the serbian-albanian conflict is not that old, it started with the nationalism that was "founded" by the socalled "Prizren-League" ...so, there is nothing like a long history of serbian-albanian conflict, ...and you will certainly know what I am trying to explain to you, right?
no, predictor, this is a serious issue, indeed. and that´s the reason why Albanians should not and will not be rewarded with independence, for bombing cafe´s with youths drinking coffee inside, killing albanian postmen and serbian policemen...
Aren't genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, systimatical rape, random execution of civilians... violations of international law? Where was Russia when that was happening?
Does anybody really believe that this will fly?
Everyone knows very well that compromise on future status of Kosova is impossible, neither from Albanian or Serb side.
Would that be a mistake or not, I am sure that Albanians are ready to take that step, declaring independence, regardless of consequences, as every possible scenario could not be worse than staying within Serbia borders.
In other words, my dear B-92 friends commenting here, Kosova has nothing to loose, in both cases, either UN SC resolution or unilateral declaration, while staying within Serb jurisdiction is, once and forever, out of question.
It’s crystal clear how some of the commentators here are trying to scare other pro-independence commentators, as well as is Russia foreign affairs doing to the world, that unilateral declaration would destabilize the region. But there is no “scenario” that could scare us more than going back into the Serb rule. So, leave us alone, it’s over, once and forever. Just, be a good neighbor. Goodbye “union”!
We will not, as I am will neither, “give up” things as you said! Even a not recognized independence (meaning firstly by some EU countries) is best solution, much-much better solution than going back into the Serb regime. We will proceed, everyone in the world knows that, regardless of recognition. Even without UN, WB, IMF, WTO etc. membership. Even if we are threatened with NATO withdrawal, or even “worse” UN withdrawal. YES, we will become independent, recognized or not, with or without international protection, with or without international aid, with or without Serbia’s (meaning Russia’s) agreement.
I repeat my self, leave us alone, there is nothing you can do about it!
Cvele, Ron, Princip (disappeared these days), Kate (pretending non Serb as well as Ron), read my comments posted above, here, as they are really serious, I have not wrote them just to oppose you.
I can guaranty you, that there is no power in the world that can bring us back under Serbia (even formally as BG politicians want actually). Take this, as a serious answer pls. and stop puting oil on the fire. At last, this is not a game, this is very serious and important issue, and we can't allow ourselves to tell whatever we want.
Ron said:
And if you want full independence why you agreed on autonomy in 1999. Why are you lying?
(Ron, 21. September 2007 18:19)
Ron, if you are so familiar with 1999 agreement, why you do not point out the fact that our delegation agreed to three years extended autonomy for Kosova, under condition that after three years, people of Kosova to hold a referendum to declare whether to stay in “union” or to definitely split, and finally become independent? That’s actually the main reason why Serbian delegation rejected it. So, independence was and is the main goal for us. And independence will happen. Leave us alone, let’s start living in new created reality: Kosova and Serbia as a good neighbors! If you really mean what are you writing here, than this fact will maybe sound senseless to you, but there is nothing you can do about.
Here we go screaming about who said what. Isn't the welfare of those who are just waiting for a decision instead of those who do not live here and i have to walk 1 mile to and from the main road to get to work. Why my road is so bad and during winter it is iced over and the dogs chase me. I am tired of this madness i want a decision either you help us with independence or help us to live within Serbia. I have lost all hope and i want to have an answer so i can raise my child safe and secure. Please stop this madness of who said or did what.
Cvele, CCCC said:
"We are offering you good and prosperous lives in the EU. Nothing less."
Cvele, I can clearly see your “good” intentions, BUT, NO THANKS.
Let us to live “poor and unhappy” in our independent country. Independent, even without UN (or self imposed isolation as you call it), even under US control, but not yours (meaning Serbia).
Leave us alone. Let’s live as a good neighbors. I think we can do it!
Ron and to whom it may concern,
Have a look of that for your informations. It is the Rambouillet Agreement which Albanian initially hasitated to sign and Serbian State of Milloshevic refused to sign which triggered the NATO bombing. http://www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/ksvo_rambouillet_text.html
Ron
Why you so embaresed to say that you are from Leskovac and probably you moved there on 1999 claiming that you were from Kosovo just to get stay in Holand is it true?
Predicor
Dont say later I didnt tell u so. Kosovo is not in the Russian bears grip. It is in the US snakes layer. They dont care about you. Never have and never will. They attacked all albanians that refused to fall in line and the ones that were trying to go and escape into Serbia were ruthlessly murdered. While the Serbs attacked KLA and their goons US attacked everyone.
There is nothing Serbs can do to stop Southern Kosovo from commiting suicide unless the people there help. So take a look again...
WE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY.
EA
For your post which I missed earlier. All I will ask you is to look up the amount of taxes Serbs all over Yugoslavia paid through their nose for the development of Kosovo. I am 25 and I had never paid these taxes. However, my parents both paid and were happy to pay. Slovenia never paid. Even Croatia was taxed for Kosovo. Even under Milosevic there were huge projects for schools, roads, railways, bridges, hydro and so on and so on. Not to mention under Tito who personally Godfathered all Albanians that had 7 or more children.
Serbs have been there to help the development and had not judged you or took revenge after WW2 for your betrayal to the Nazis.
Now as for independence that is long gone. It is never going to happen. However, you should take this opertunity and milk EU for what its worth. We can have a golden path together. Or Serbia can have a dirt road alone. As for you, there will never be any independence and therefore no EU.
These are facts. Situation on the ground supports this.
"How cculd expect to more than two million Kosovar Albanians to be Serbian citizens again after all these suffering they had to go through and that because of the Serbian State of Milloshevic? "
How can you expect the Kurds / Tibetans to go back to Turkey / China after everything that happened?
Even with the widest autonomy imaginable we know that the Kosovars will never accept autonomy within Serbia. Serbia in the past stripped the Kosovars of this entitlement which essentially took the region into this crisis. Instead of the Kosovars heading towards a unilateral declaration of “independence”, how about a “supervised autonomy within Europe” as a solution, this sounds like a good enough compromise for both. If the Kosovars do not have the ability to maintain rights for all its citizens, or are unable to function as a modern autonomous region which is unlikely with the helping hand of Europe available to them. Europe can strip them of the entitlement and not Serbia as Milosevic did in the nineties. Serbia’s immediate goal along with its neighbors is towards a Europe without borders i.e. European integration. Serbia doesn’t have to join NATO as there are a number of countries within the EU that are not NATO members. The Kosovars should they wish can join NATO and probably will.
Both parties were reluctant on discussing partition therefore this is as close as one gets to a “mutually accepted solution”. Better to have Europe monitor the autonomy of Kosovo/a which is essentially what they’re doing anyway than go back to what the case was in the past. If a compromise is not found it will be because those in positions of influence do not want one.
Cvele, you said
“Predicor
Dont say later I didnt tell u so. Kosovo is not in the Russian bears grip. It is in the US snakes layer. They dont care about you. Never have and never will. They attacked all albanians that refused to fall in line and the ones that were trying to go and escape into Serbia were ruthlessly murdered. While the Serbs attacked KLA and their goons US attacked everyone.”
I am sorry to disappoint you, but you did not succeed to convince me, neither anyone else, for sure. If US doesn’t care for us, I am sure neither Serbian politicians do not at all, let’s not talk about people.
Tell me how many Albanians were trying to go into Serbia? Of course, do not count on some (even though symbolic number) collaborators of the Milosevic regime.
Just to refresh your mind, we were escaping from your police and army to Albania (otherwise our motherland) and Macedonia, around one million, remember?. I don’t remember anyone going to the north!
The only Albanians that have “gone” to the north are actually murdered Albanian civilians by your troops (about 12000), thus to hide crimes that your army and police did, out of which 2500 are still considered as “missing”. I am sure you have heard about mass graves of Albanians in Serbia, right?
Cvele, don’t waste your energy trying to convince us in unreality, as we have witnessed all this described above and bellow.
I am sure, you never run with your child in the arm to escape from Serb troops bombing – while I did! You never experienced bullet flying above your head – did you? – I did, terrible feeling, I must admit. Not to mention that my house was burnt to ground, my business was destroyed, as all goods were stolen by army. But I really don’t care of that, as I managed to survive, and material damages are not to mention.
Cvele, calm down and think wisely. Is it worth to chat here with you?
"For our part, we have called on the two parties to put forward possible compromise solutions, to consider constructive and creative ideas, fresh ideas, which might encourage the other side to accept a constructive approach," he (Alekseyev) added.
But Alexseyev "forgot" to say that Russia is againist the independence of Kosova and also "forgot" to say that his country has to be realistic and accept the will of people of Kosova to be independent from Serbia. He also "forgot" to say the main issue now is the sovereignity over Kosova as practically Kosova is independent since 1999. I think the Frendship Pact between two independent courtries Kosova and Serbia, free movement of goods and people, common policies in fighting corruption and crimes are great ideas and can be implemented very quicky with amazing results if the Serbs and Russian really want. These would be some realistic and very fresh constructive ideas. Any other statements about a "possible compromise" when it comes to Sovereignity of Kosova is misleading, elusiva and ill-intended, just to delay as long as possible the independence of Kosova.
Aren't genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, systimatical rape, random execution of civilians... violations of international law? Where was Russia when that was happening?
Does anybody really believe that this will fly?
Now compare this serious and decent attitude with the almost comical "independence now!!" attitude that certain western papers have been systematically advocated for the past 3-4 years.
Everyone knows very well that compromise on future status of Kosova is impossible, neither from Albanian or Serb side.
Would that be a mistake or not, I am sure that Albanians are ready to take that step, declaring independence, regardless of consequences, as every possible scenario could not be worse than staying within Serbia borders.
In other words, my dear B-92 friends commenting here, Kosova has nothing to loose, in both cases, either UN SC resolution or unilateral declaration, while staying within Serb jurisdiction is, once and forever, out of question.
It’s crystal clear how some of the commentators here are trying to scare other pro-independence commentators, as well as is Russia foreign affairs doing to the world, that unilateral declaration would destabilize the region. But there is no “scenario” that could scare us more than going back into the Serb rule. So, leave us alone, it’s over, once and forever. Just, be a good neighbor. Goodbye “union”!
We will not, as I am will neither, “give up” things as you said! Even a not recognized independence (meaning firstly by some EU countries) is best solution, much-much better solution than going back into the Serb regime. We will proceed, everyone in the world knows that, regardless of recognition. Even without UN, WB, IMF, WTO etc. membership. Even if we are threatened with NATO withdrawal, or even “worse” UN withdrawal. YES, we will become independent, recognized or not, with or without international protection, with or without international aid, with or without Serbia’s (meaning Russia’s) agreement.
I repeat my self, leave us alone, there is nothing you can do about it!
Firstly thanks for your questions to me.
When I write about the very need of Kosova's independence it is all about firstly the Sovereignity and secondly in the context of the running its own domestic affairs. Should have not been a war in Kosova then we could have been discussing here all the time about a substatial autonomy or whatever and Serbia could have had a moral right to ask and insist on sovereignity.
The second concept of a substantial autonomy is accepted now by the Serbian governement but it is too little, to late in time, not realistic and sincere. How cculd expect to more than two million Kosovar Albanians to be Serbian citizens again after all these suffering they had to go through and that because of the Serbian State of Milloshevic?
Referring to your question about the high crime and unemployment in Kosova I would agree but it is also true that that is linked akso the history of the former Yugoslavia. When you look into the Kosova issue you MUST look in its history. As far as I know Kosova has been the poorest region of the ex-Yugoslavia. Now that is one of the reason why the Status of Kosova and its Sovereignity it is so importatant to enable the Kosova government to be partner of international institutions, being able to have bi-laterial and multilateral relations with other countries, to be able to fight the crime and corruption effectively and get assitance from the international community without having to ask the permission from Belgrade. I believe that Kosova leadership is taking all the steps to find a peaceful solution to their goal which is ultemetely independence by working with the international parteners and the UN. It is needed more time to get Russia on board to realise that Kosova independence is the most realistic solution. I believe it will be good for Serbia to free itself.
Cvele, Ron, Princip (disappeared these days), Kate (pretending non Serb as well as Ron), read my comments posted above, here, as they are really serious, I have not wrote them just to oppose you.
I can guaranty you, that there is no power in the world that can bring us back under Serbia (even formally as BG politicians want actually). Take this, as a serious answer pls. and stop puting oil on the fire. At last, this is not a game, this is very serious and important issue, and we can't allow ourselves to tell whatever we want.
Ron said:
And if you want full independence why you agreed on autonomy in 1999. Why are you lying?
(Ron, 21. September 2007 18:19)
Ron, if you are so familiar with 1999 agreement, why you do not point out the fact that our delegation agreed to three years extended autonomy for Kosova, under condition that after three years, people of Kosova to hold a referendum to declare whether to stay in “union” or to definitely split, and finally become independent? That’s actually the main reason why Serbian delegation rejected it. So, independence was and is the main goal for us. And independence will happen. Leave us alone, let’s start living in new created reality: Kosova and Serbia as a good neighbors! If you really mean what are you writing here, than this fact will maybe sound senseless to you, but there is nothing you can do about.
EA, you Albanians are amazing with your ability to distort history. First you claim that you were independent between 1389 and 1912 even though you were occupied by Ottoman empire, now you're already rewriting history after just 8 years and claim to have been independent even though you are "practically" occupied by NATO.
Here we go screaming about who said what. Isn't the welfare of those who are just waiting for a decision instead of those who do not live here and i have to walk 1 mile to and from the main road to get to work. Why my road is so bad and during winter it is iced over and the dogs chase me. I am tired of this madness i want a decision either you help us with independence or help us to live within Serbia. I have lost all hope and i want to have an answer so i can raise my child safe and secure. Please stop this madness of who said or did what.
EA
Kosovo according to you is already independent. Then Why is no one investing? Why are there no jobs? Why is crime so rampant? Why is the only legal document about Kosovo confirming that its part of Serbia? Why must you wait on UN to decide if they will let you do anything you want? Why do they call elections for you at the worst time possible? I think you should reconsider your statement.
CCCC
BER@TGRa
"Here we go screaming about who said what. Isn't the welfare of those who are just waiting for a decision instead of those who do not live here and i have to walk 1 mile to and from the main road to get to work. Why my road is so bad and during winter it is iced over and the dogs chase me. I am tired of this madness i want a decision either you help us with independence or help us to live within Serbia. I have lost all hope and i want to have an answer so i can raise my child safe and secure. Please stop this madness of who said or did what."
From my posts u can gather I am pretty pro-Serb. That means in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that I am Anti-Albanian. I beleieve we can live together and Albanians living within Serbia should have the same rights as Serbs. I believe that we need the international community for progress assistance but its deffinetely not up to EU or US or Russia to do this for us. Its only up to us.
Serbs have offered autonomy under UN/EU mandate. If I were in your place I would say to the West. "Look we can accept autonomy but only if Serbia as a whole enters EU with Croatia in 2009. This would benefit both us and u. I know you can understand this.
To Njazi:
I assume that by "genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, systimatical rape, random execution of civilians" you are referring to what the albanians have been doing to the Serbs over the last 60 years.
Predictor
Independence is a dead horse. It is not coming. It is obvious you do not care about your own people. Not one bit. You would rather starve 2 milion of ur own people in a self imposed isolation (you call it independence without UN), then be in the EU governing urself with certain aspects of actual independence but in an autonomous province of Kosovo. Meanwhile, if u dont trust us. Have EU monitoring the situation and ur progress... WE INSIST.
I REPEAT TO U. It is NOT in Serbian interest to have poor and unhappy citizens in our Southern province. No one wants a conflict and no one (except U.S.) wants Albanians to suffer this economic and criminal hell they are in right now. That way they can control you with absolutely no opposition.
We are offering you good and prosperous lives in the EU. Nothing less.
Cvele, CCCC said:
"We are offering you good and prosperous lives in the EU. Nothing less."
Cvele, I can clearly see your “good” intentions, BUT, NO THANKS.
Let us to live “poor and unhappy” in our independent country. Independent, even without UN (or self imposed isolation as you call it), even under US control, but not yours (meaning Serbia).
Leave us alone. Let’s live as a good neighbors. I think we can do it!
Ron and to whom it may concern,
Have a look of that for your informations. It is the Rambouillet Agreement which Albanian initially hasitated to sign and Serbian State of Milloshevic refused to sign which triggered the NATO bombing. http://www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/ksvo_rambouillet_text.html
"Everyone knows very well that compromise on future status of Kosova is impossible, neither from Albanian or Serb side. "
written by "predictor"
Germany and France...fought each other in several wars, over several centuries, ...just a little bit over a decade ago, we could witness Mr.Kohl the german chancelor and Mr.Mitterand, the french counterpart, standing shoulder to shoulder and holding hands as a sign of a peaceful "TOGETHER", the serbian-albanian conflict is not that old, it started with the nationalism that was "founded" by the socalled "Prizren-League" ...so, there is nothing like a long history of serbian-albanian conflict, ...and you will certainly know what I am trying to explain to you, right?
no, predictor, this is a serious issue, indeed. and that´s the reason why Albanians should not and will not be rewarded with independence, for bombing cafe´s with youths drinking coffee inside, killing albanian postmen and serbian policemen...
Ron
Why you so embaresed to say that you are from Leskovac and probably you moved there on 1999 claiming that you were from Kosovo just to get stay in Holand is it true?
Predicor
Dont say later I didnt tell u so. Kosovo is not in the Russian bears grip. It is in the US snakes layer. They dont care about you. Never have and never will. They attacked all albanians that refused to fall in line and the ones that were trying to go and escape into Serbia were ruthlessly murdered. While the Serbs attacked KLA and their goons US attacked everyone.
There is nothing Serbs can do to stop Southern Kosovo from commiting suicide unless the people there help. So take a look again...
WE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY.
EA
For your post which I missed earlier. All I will ask you is to look up the amount of taxes Serbs all over Yugoslavia paid through their nose for the development of Kosovo. I am 25 and I had never paid these taxes. However, my parents both paid and were happy to pay. Slovenia never paid. Even Croatia was taxed for Kosovo. Even under Milosevic there were huge projects for schools, roads, railways, bridges, hydro and so on and so on. Not to mention under Tito who personally Godfathered all Albanians that had 7 or more children.
Serbs have been there to help the development and had not judged you or took revenge after WW2 for your betrayal to the Nazis.
Now as for independence that is long gone. It is never going to happen. However, you should take this opertunity and milk EU for what its worth. We can have a golden path together. Or Serbia can have a dirt road alone. As for you, there will never be any independence and therefore no EU.
These are facts. Situation on the ground supports this.
"How cculd expect to more than two million Kosovar Albanians to be Serbian citizens again after all these suffering they had to go through and that because of the Serbian State of Milloshevic? "
How can you expect the Kurds / Tibetans to go back to Turkey / China after everything that happened?
Even with the widest autonomy imaginable we know that the Kosovars will never accept autonomy within Serbia. Serbia in the past stripped the Kosovars of this entitlement which essentially took the region into this crisis. Instead of the Kosovars heading towards a unilateral declaration of “independence”, how about a “supervised autonomy within Europe” as a solution, this sounds like a good enough compromise for both. If the Kosovars do not have the ability to maintain rights for all its citizens, or are unable to function as a modern autonomous region which is unlikely with the helping hand of Europe available to them. Europe can strip them of the entitlement and not Serbia as Milosevic did in the nineties. Serbia’s immediate goal along with its neighbors is towards a Europe without borders i.e. European integration. Serbia doesn’t have to join NATO as there are a number of countries within the EU that are not NATO members. The Kosovars should they wish can join NATO and probably will.
Both parties were reluctant on discussing partition therefore this is as close as one gets to a “mutually accepted solution”. Better to have Europe monitor the autonomy of Kosovo/a which is essentially what they’re doing anyway than go back to what the case was in the past. If a compromise is not found it will be because those in positions of influence do not want one.
Cvele, you said
“Predicor
Dont say later I didnt tell u so. Kosovo is not in the Russian bears grip. It is in the US snakes layer. They dont care about you. Never have and never will. They attacked all albanians that refused to fall in line and the ones that were trying to go and escape into Serbia were ruthlessly murdered. While the Serbs attacked KLA and their goons US attacked everyone.”
I am sorry to disappoint you, but you did not succeed to convince me, neither anyone else, for sure. If US doesn’t care for us, I am sure neither Serbian politicians do not at all, let’s not talk about people.
Tell me how many Albanians were trying to go into Serbia? Of course, do not count on some (even though symbolic number) collaborators of the Milosevic regime.
Just to refresh your mind, we were escaping from your police and army to Albania (otherwise our motherland) and Macedonia, around one million, remember?. I don’t remember anyone going to the north!
The only Albanians that have “gone” to the north are actually murdered Albanian civilians by your troops (about 12000), thus to hide crimes that your army and police did, out of which 2500 are still considered as “missing”. I am sure you have heard about mass graves of Albanians in Serbia, right?
Cvele, don’t waste your energy trying to convince us in unreality, as we have witnessed all this described above and bellow.
I am sure, you never run with your child in the arm to escape from Serb troops bombing – while I did! You never experienced bullet flying above your head – did you? – I did, terrible feeling, I must admit. Not to mention that my house was burnt to ground, my business was destroyed, as all goods were stolen by army. But I really don’t care of that, as I managed to survive, and material damages are not to mention.
Cvele, calm down and think wisely. Is it worth to chat here with you?
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