"Independence is foregone conclusion"

It looks like someone guarantied backing for Independence or they have gone crazy. Either way, they must present the will of 2 million of Kosova. The will of majority of Kosova population is Independence form Serbia.Reason for this are very well known.
Imagine more than 2 million unhappy inhabitants in Serbia that are not ready to support any Serb proposal.
Imagine more than 1.5 million unhappy voters in Serbia. Large number of voters that if mobilised to go out and vote(having in mind the vote apathy in Serbia) could change the political landscape in Serbia.
Imagine Serbia with these kind of problems trying to join the EU.

I think Kosovo staying inside Serbia will only harm the long term Serbian interests. The ones that will benefit from this are the current corrupted Serbian politicians while the population is going to be living miserably as they are living now.

For those that think that Serbs need Kosovo, come to Serbia and ask the Serbian people one by one. They will tell you precisely what they think of Kosovo and if they need Kosovo at all. Many of you that live abroad support Milosevic ideas, ideas that brought Serbia to this stage. People of Serbia are not going to listen to you any longer , they are going to paint their future themselves. Kosova Serbs have already told Belgrade to mind its business...
Who is next I wonder...?

This headline was good for my morning chuckle. Russia has guaranteed it would veto any bid to steal Serbian sovereign land, half of Europe is against a greater albania, China, India, Indonesia, South Africa...are all against it, most of th world is against it, and yet I see this headline 'Independence a Foregone Conclusion'. Thank you, this was better than the morning funnies in the paper.

You albanians are in for a RUDE awakening!!!! ceku knows his illegal plan for stealing Kosovo has been flushed down the drain, he just doesnt know how to tell his people yet. Listen, the only way for Kosovo to prosper is within the EU and that will NEVER happen if it illegaly seperates from the rest of Srbija. Do you people want Kosovo to be like albania, a country with NO FUTURE??? get real, Kosovo isnt going anywhere, and you will all have a better life excepting it.

"Agim Ceku, who was in London today to see a "troika" of envoys from the US, Russia and the EU, has lost all political credibility at home after putting his trust in the west - particularly the US - to deliver the prize of independence."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,,2172568,00.html

- this was written the other day in the UK media and the staements coming out of Ceku now highlight he has lost touch with events even more. Of course he knows come the 10th December he will not be in office having already stated his intention of not participating in the local UNMIK sponsored elections.

If Mr Ceku believes that independence is a foregone conclusion, then why is he taking part in talks?? The troika has made it clear that these talks are designed to investigate all possible solutions.

If they are not prepared to engage in these, then the US and EU should threaten to withold all support and act on their behalf when formulating a solution.

Plus there is always an underlying threat of violence, which is totally unacceptable during diplomatic processes.

The Prishtina team should stick to its position. Come December 10th Kosova declares independence. Leave it to the world to decide what to do about it. Nothing can be worse that being ruled by Serbia. (Just look at the picture of Kostunica and the future president Ilic and tell me if you would like to be ruled by them.) If they keep on postponing the declaration of independence and if the Prishtina team goes along with more delays they will lose any legitimacy and leverage and they have on the K-Albanian population and will not be able to control the situation any longer. After all the main reason they are supported is not because of the 'economic miracle' that is taking place in Kosova now, but because of the prospect of independence. Furthermore the EU will never make up its mind on the status of Kosova unless presented with the stark choice of recognizing its independence or allowing the situation there and in the wider region to deteriorate because deteriorate it will.
As for Samardzic's call for the EU support for autonomy for Kosovo and the EU role in it, well that is complete nonsense. The EU nor anybody else would have any legitimacy in the eyes of the K-Albanians if they don't support independence. They would just be seen as a hostile force doing Serbia's bidding and the EU knows that full well.
And it is rather strange when Samardzic says that EU would rather pay than face 30 years of conflict. I guess Serbia will be much more affected by those 30 years of conflict than the EU. He should heed his own advice more.

The EU is now in charge of the game and there is no way that they will slice off 15% of Serbian territory and hand it to one ethnic group. They need to have a compromise which everyone can live with, and this has to be agreed with Serbia and the provincial government.

Any idea that independence can be declared unilaterally and carried through on the support of the US alone is just a myth. Who would support the new state economically, why would nations want to isolate Serbia like that, and what would follow with independence seeking groups elsewhere in Europe?

It isn't going to happen which is what Ischinger has started to voice. There will be a high level of autonomy dressed up as an alternative form of independence to try and please all without a 'label'.

Nato fought the war on behalf of the Kosovo Albanians, acted as protectorate of the province for 8 years, and do not want to be a permanent guardian and provider. The only way Kosovo can flourish will be as part of Serbia or in agreed cooperation of some sort with Serbia.

What do you think is more important to the EU and the US? A small fledgling protectorate which has become a through route for criminal gangs or an established sovereign state right in the heart of Europe?

I agree that Serbia has to keep moving in the right direction, but the nation is hugely important geopolitically.

Yugoslavia was never in NATO or the Warsaw Pact - they remained independent. If there is a trade to be made on the international stage, it is not to tempt Serbia with the rather wilted Nato carrot, but rather to get Serbia to join Nato in return for the US and EU supporting them over Kosovo.

Serbia actually holds more cards than the complacent posters here seem to realise.

ceku's comments are funnier every day! After he resigns I am waiting for a hague indictement for the gruessome war crimes he committed in Medak Pocket! (A place where real ethnic clensing occured). Not made up stories of Serbs ethnic clensing albans in KiM.

Unfortunately for my Serbian friends, Serbia will loose Kosovo and, because of the internal political consequences, probably will also loose the possibility of entering EU, which is the worst thing.

Princip it must hurt for your Serbian pride when you know that our Prime was educated in Belgrade. He used his knowledge to help free Croatia and Kosova, and now he is embarrassing your leaders all they can do is walk-out.

oh boy December 10th why not just do it now? Why wait until the Tenth the US say they will support a declaration of independence? I am tired i want a result of this waiting for 8 years people are suffering and decision needs to be made.

KS
He can make any and all promises he wants. There is no independence. He is not going to be in office. How are you so blind as not to be able to see this? Ishinger told you NO independence. Why do you presume otherwise? Its like watching a movie and you have been told how its going to end. Yet you still believe something else is going to happen. NATO and Serbs are holding military excersises and alban police in Kosovo is using Serbian intelligence to catch their arm dealers. It will be a beautiful and succesful autonomy.

CCCC

Olf..."Many of you that live abroad support Milosevic ideas"
With what facts do you base this statement? Your generalization is inaccurate and serves no purpose other then to encourage anger and discord.
I believe that Tudjman, Milosevic and Izetbegovic were made from the same mold, one was no less quilty than the other. That all three of them did not face worldly justice is unfortunate.

Artan, its well known that albania is a huge trafficker of drugs, and humans. albania's economy is by far the worst in Europe. Also, Serbia is much, much closer to becoming a EU member than albania is. Can you really dissagree with this?

"Independence is foregone conclusion", i think not. The albanians love to judge Serbian politicians. Perhaps it would be more apt if they judged their own. After all, Vojislav Kostunica promised the Serbs that he would retain Kosovo and has indeed delivered. What have the albanian politicians promised their minions? And what have they delivered?

By the way where is Mr Isufi?
We are all missing him.

Kate autonomy is not a compromise K-Albanians can live with. We had it and we had it removed at the whim of Milosevic. And then he tried to get rid of every last one of us. So thanks, but no thanks.
As for the criminality aspect well look at Serbia itself, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Italy, Russia. Kosova is not really an exception. Actually not being a state at all and being run by the UN you should not really be surprised by it. But differently from what you might think we are not genetically programmed to become criminals. (And you should know that criminals are really very open minded people Kate: Albanian criminals have excellent cooperation with Serb ones. One of Arkan's closest 'business' associates was an Albanian.)
And besides Kosova is gonna become a much blacker hole if given back to Serbia than otherwise. So what you are proposing in practical terms amounts to: complete break down in law and order war and a regional mess. Kosova will suffer, but so will Serbia.
As for Serbia's importance, well Serbia is not Yugoslavia. It is important but it won't be the end of the world for NATO if Serbia doesn't join. The result would be a landlocked Serbia and its Russian friends would have to ask for NATO permission in order to get there.

Hey Obilic,

Please refrain from such derogatory statements about a neighboring country. Albania has a bright future. It is Serbia that does not have a very bright future considering the majority of radicals in your parliament.

Starting from Slovenia,Croatia,BH,Macedonia and Montenegro each of these countries had difficulties/wars just to leave independently from BG and Serbia is the one who was not happy about that,used any force they had to stop all the countries I mentioned above.
Imagine now if we listened Belgrad and Russia still we would have been in talks,negotiations and war conflicts.
I think Kosovars shuold go ahead without waiting for an agreement with Belgrad.
Look where is Croatia,Slovenia,Montenegro,Macedonia none of them had green light by Serbia so why wait and loose time,prosperity etc.

A "foregone conclusion"? Maybe for Pristina, but certainly not for a good chunk of the world. If the shatterpoint is essentially U.S. recognition, then it is a tenuous shatterpoint indeed. I can't say that Kosovo's retention in Serbia is a "foregone conclusion" either, but I do think that whatever outcome results for Kosovo, it will be a very weak and very limited independence indeed. Serbia might actually get off better in the end with the provisions entrusted to it for letting Kosovo go. I'd advise the Pristina team, and in fact Team Kosova in general, not to be so glib. If things do not go their way, they shouldn't blame others for their problems, as they've been repeatedly doing in the past.

One of the members of the negotiations team representing Serbia that was in London this last time said the following

"To our surprise mediators from EU and US wanted to hear more about the details of our proposal for a viable autonomy in Kosovo. We considered, however, that this was not the time and place to uncover all of our cards. These details will be a matter of direct meeting with Albanians"

I am wondering what is his opinion, was he for a nice picnic in London or for negotiating a serious issue for Serbia? Incompetence summarizes best this person (and by large current Serb leadership that is ruling without impunity in Serbia). This is the same person that not long ago claimed that Montenegro was a "quasi" state. So by no means this is not his first screw up or intolerance towards anything that is not Serbian. I wonder when will Serb officials see it fit to reveal their plan? Albanians in Kosovo have long, long time ago made their plan available. Also, they have a detailed plan on hand (in the form of the Ahtissari's plan) and that is way the world (except Russia and Serbia) considers them a more serious side in these negotiations than the "quasi" officials representing the Serb side.

Hence, I am not sure who is in for a rude awakening, or what whom promised, or who has lost its mind, but unless Serb government officials come up with a spectacular proposal on the next meeting (something highly unlikely given their past and current performances), this is leading only one way and that is a Serb political fiasco, similar to the one that brought NATO actions in Balkans. Only this time the bomb is going to be an independent Kosovo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,,2172568,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

The above link provides a more accurate scenerio of what is currently going on. Ceku and Sedjiu can threaten all they want. Unfortunately, they don't have the force behind them to see their dreams come to fruition.

Kosova will get independence because US and majority of Kosova want it. US nad NATO are staying in Kosova. Just remember that they did not come to Kosova to vacation!!!

-As far as some posters agrument that Russia is getting stronger and US weaker, it does not matter even if it is so. I tell you why. If US weakens that means that the only way to have bases in Kosova is for Kosova to be independent. Because, a strong Russia and Serbia would mean that US would never be able to have their bases guaranted in Kosova. Therefore, Kosova will be independent be it that US is weaker than Russia or stronger.

There is no hope for Serbia in Kosova because even if no formal international recognition is made, just remember that Albanians already have a state and Albania has already officialy apropriated the seaport of Shen Gjin to be used by Kosovars.

So all Kosovars need to do is not allow for an inch of Kosova land to be given to Serbia. In addition, they should demand that Kosova's serb minority rights be the same as those of Albanians in Serbia and no territory exchange. The Kosova serbs should learn how to live in indenpendent Kosova same as Albanians in Southern Serbia are living in Serbia. No double standards!!!

The end of the talks of 10 December will most likely make serbs wish that they accepted Ahtisaari plan. Time will tell

I am not in favor of an independent Kosovo but, I agree with Teni. Serbia must wisen up and elect better representatives to government than some of the old tired faces that sit there now. And concerning Illic, I wouldn't trust this guy running a kafana. Him being Serbia's president would be an insult to it's people.

BRatG,

I agree. There needs to be made a decision. We all know that cannot be full independence.

Olf,

Let's have two referendums. One in Kosovo. One in the whole of Serbia (including of course Kosovo). If the result of BOTH referendums is: independence.... then Kosovo can get independent.
OK?

kate,

Indeed. Let's negotiate. But the end result must be what I want.
Well, if Israel or the Palestians would act that way everyone would say: it doesn't work out that way. But for Kosovo it can? No way! Both sides must give up things!

teni,

And if Northern Kosovo declares independence of Kosovo? What must happen then?

to funcakes:

So they won't go back on what they said. Hmmm. Funny how Ischinger is the SOLE representative of the EU on this matter and he's ruled out independence. So what major countries are insisting on independence....none. Certain countries have voiced the view that they THINK independence is the best option. Oh, sorry there is one country that has insisted on independence, the US. Well we don't live in the US. We live in Europe.

Teni: "But differently from what you might think we are not genetically programmed to become criminals."

I never said that, and don't think that. I said that Kosovo was a through route for criminal gangs, and they are not just Kosovan.

Poverty leads to more crime in any society, so it is important that the solution helps to take Kosovo forward.

@ OLF
“For those that think that Serbs need Kosovo, come to Serbia and ask the Serbian people one by one. They will tell you precisely what they think of Kosovo and if they need Kosovo at all”

Well I live in Novi Sad, does that count as Serbia? I say NO INDEPENDENCE. Ciao.

@Avi
“Look where is Croatia,Slovenia,Montenegro,Macedonia none of them had green light by Serbia so why wait and loose time,prosperity etc.”

Only difference is those countries have a long history of independence whereas the Albanians in Kosovo are tenants and have never had independence. Also, it’s the Serbian heartland and we’re not giving it away to any tenants! those republics were a part of jugoslavija NOT serbia- big difference.

KASTRIOTI,

We agree: no double standards.
No breach of international law for Kurdistan and Tibet (Tibet was independent by the way!) so no breach either for Kosovo.

No double standards: autonomy for Kosovo. OF COURSE! But in Serbia.

I don't know why everyone is in such denial of the fact that:

A) The Albanians are saying they will declare independence on December 10th, and that is unavoidable because they can declare independence if they want to.
B) The US and major EU countries have said they WILL recognize this independence.

Now, does anyone think, that all of a sudden, in a drastic change of events, on December 10th, everyone will take back their word...and risk their own reputations, by saying, NO INDEPENDENCE?

And does anyone think that the Albanians will care after December 10th if Russia or Serbia or Greece or Slovakia don't recognize this independence?

I don't think so!

The cards are all laid out. Independence will be announced, it will be recognized by major world players, and even a MULTI-NATIONAL war cannot do much about it...other then destabilize the region, and antagonise the war-launchers even more, which they obviously are not interested in, not in this day and age.

Well, sorry to break it to you, but with US support...Albanians will not really wait longer than the 120 days gift that they gave Europe to get it together. Unlike previous times, they have locked in their December 10th independence decision, it's not "we hope by end May, beginning of July", "we hope by the end of summer".

They are saying the case is closed and there's no going back.

Independence cannot be stopped because the Albanians CAN declare it in their gov't, and there's technically nothing to stop that.

Recognition of that independence cannot be stopped if certain countries decide to recognize it. Just like the US and Canada went ahead and recognized Macedonia with it's name, despite what almighty Greece might have thought.

So, what's really stopping the Albanians?

They have US support, and that's enough. Even if the US was alone at recognizing this independence, that would be enough for them to go ahead and announce it. In fact, the only reason it was not announced, was because the US asked them to give the Europeans the 6 month "presssure-time" to get it together, and if they can't, they would have a hard time asking for more time, and the Albanians could reject it easier.

What US says, takes priority over Europe in Albaniandom.

Princip it must hurt for your Serbian pride when you know that our Prime was educated in Belgrade. He used his knowledge to help free Croatia and Kosova, and now he is embarrassing your leaders all they can do is walk-out.

Unfortunately for my Serbian friends, Serbia will loose Kosovo and, because of the internal political consequences, probably will also loose the possibility of entering EU, which is the worst thing.

You albanians are in for a RUDE awakening!!!! ceku knows his illegal plan for stealing Kosovo has been flushed down the drain, he just doesnt know how to tell his people yet. Listen, the only way for Kosovo to prosper is within the EU and that will NEVER happen if it illegaly seperates from the rest of Srbija. Do you people want Kosovo to be like albania, a country with NO FUTURE??? get real, Kosovo isnt going anywhere, and you will all have a better life excepting it.

Hey Obilic,

Please refrain from such derogatory statements about a neighboring country. Albania has a bright future. It is Serbia that does not have a very bright future considering the majority of radicals in your parliament.

ceku's comments are funnier every day! After he resigns I am waiting for a hague indictement for the gruessome war crimes he committed in Medak Pocket! (A place where real ethnic clensing occured). Not made up stories of Serbs ethnic clensing albans in KiM.

oh boy December 10th why not just do it now? Why wait until the Tenth the US say they will support a declaration of independence? I am tired i want a result of this waiting for 8 years people are suffering and decision needs to be made.

It looks like someone guarantied backing for Independence or they have gone crazy. Either way, they must present the will of 2 million of Kosova. The will of majority of Kosova population is Independence form Serbia.Reason for this are very well known.
Imagine more than 2 million unhappy inhabitants in Serbia that are not ready to support any Serb proposal.
Imagine more than 1.5 million unhappy voters in Serbia. Large number of voters that if mobilised to go out and vote(having in mind the vote apathy in Serbia) could change the political landscape in Serbia.
Imagine Serbia with these kind of problems trying to join the EU.

I think Kosovo staying inside Serbia will only harm the long term Serbian interests. The ones that will benefit from this are the current corrupted Serbian politicians while the population is going to be living miserably as they are living now.

For those that think that Serbs need Kosovo, come to Serbia and ask the Serbian people one by one. They will tell you precisely what they think of Kosovo and if they need Kosovo at all. Many of you that live abroad support Milosevic ideas, ideas that brought Serbia to this stage. People of Serbia are not going to listen to you any longer , they are going to paint their future themselves. Kosova Serbs have already told Belgrade to mind its business...
Who is next I wonder...?

If Mr Ceku believes that independence is a foregone conclusion, then why is he taking part in talks?? The troika has made it clear that these talks are designed to investigate all possible solutions.

If they are not prepared to engage in these, then the US and EU should threaten to withold all support and act on their behalf when formulating a solution.

Plus there is always an underlying threat of violence, which is totally unacceptable during diplomatic processes.

This headline was good for my morning chuckle. Russia has guaranteed it would veto any bid to steal Serbian sovereign land, half of Europe is against a greater albania, China, India, Indonesia, South Africa...are all against it, most of th world is against it, and yet I see this headline 'Independence a Foregone Conclusion'. Thank you, this was better than the morning funnies in the paper.

KS
He can make any and all promises he wants. There is no independence. He is not going to be in office. How are you so blind as not to be able to see this? Ishinger told you NO independence. Why do you presume otherwise? Its like watching a movie and you have been told how its going to end. Yet you still believe something else is going to happen. NATO and Serbs are holding military excersises and alban police in Kosovo is using Serbian intelligence to catch their arm dealers. It will be a beautiful and succesful autonomy.

CCCC

Starting from Slovenia,Croatia,BH,Macedonia and Montenegro each of these countries had difficulties/wars just to leave independently from BG and Serbia is the one who was not happy about that,used any force they had to stop all the countries I mentioned above.
Imagine now if we listened Belgrad and Russia still we would have been in talks,negotiations and war conflicts.
I think Kosovars shuold go ahead without waiting for an agreement with Belgrad.
Look where is Croatia,Slovenia,Montenegro,Macedonia none of them had green light by Serbia so why wait and loose time,prosperity etc.

Artan, its well known that albania is a huge trafficker of drugs, and humans. albania's economy is by far the worst in Europe. Also, Serbia is much, much closer to becoming a EU member than albania is. Can you really dissagree with this?

"Agim Ceku, who was in London today to see a "troika" of envoys from the US, Russia and the EU, has lost all political credibility at home after putting his trust in the west - particularly the US - to deliver the prize of independence."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,,2172568,00.html

- this was written the other day in the UK media and the staements coming out of Ceku now highlight he has lost touch with events even more. Of course he knows come the 10th December he will not be in office having already stated his intention of not participating in the local UNMIK sponsored elections.

The Prishtina team should stick to its position. Come December 10th Kosova declares independence. Leave it to the world to decide what to do about it. Nothing can be worse that being ruled by Serbia. (Just look at the picture of Kostunica and the future president Ilic and tell me if you would like to be ruled by them.) If they keep on postponing the declaration of independence and if the Prishtina team goes along with more delays they will lose any legitimacy and leverage and they have on the K-Albanian population and will not be able to control the situation any longer. After all the main reason they are supported is not because of the 'economic miracle' that is taking place in Kosova now, but because of the prospect of independence. Furthermore the EU will never make up its mind on the status of Kosova unless presented with the stark choice of recognizing its independence or allowing the situation there and in the wider region to deteriorate because deteriorate it will.
As for Samardzic's call for the EU support for autonomy for Kosovo and the EU role in it, well that is complete nonsense. The EU nor anybody else would have any legitimacy in the eyes of the K-Albanians if they don't support independence. They would just be seen as a hostile force doing Serbia's bidding and the EU knows that full well.
And it is rather strange when Samardzic says that EU would rather pay than face 30 years of conflict. I guess Serbia will be much more affected by those 30 years of conflict than the EU. He should heed his own advice more.

By the way where is Mr Isufi?
We are all missing him.

The EU is now in charge of the game and there is no way that they will slice off 15% of Serbian territory and hand it to one ethnic group. They need to have a compromise which everyone can live with, and this has to be agreed with Serbia and the provincial government.

Any idea that independence can be declared unilaterally and carried through on the support of the US alone is just a myth. Who would support the new state economically, why would nations want to isolate Serbia like that, and what would follow with independence seeking groups elsewhere in Europe?

It isn't going to happen which is what Ischinger has started to voice. There will be a high level of autonomy dressed up as an alternative form of independence to try and please all without a 'label'.

Nato fought the war on behalf of the Kosovo Albanians, acted as protectorate of the province for 8 years, and do not want to be a permanent guardian and provider. The only way Kosovo can flourish will be as part of Serbia or in agreed cooperation of some sort with Serbia.

What do you think is more important to the EU and the US? A small fledgling protectorate which has become a through route for criminal gangs or an established sovereign state right in the heart of Europe?

I agree that Serbia has to keep moving in the right direction, but the nation is hugely important geopolitically.

Yugoslavia was never in NATO or the Warsaw Pact - they remained independent. If there is a trade to be made on the international stage, it is not to tempt Serbia with the rather wilted Nato carrot, but rather to get Serbia to join Nato in return for the US and EU supporting them over Kosovo.

Serbia actually holds more cards than the complacent posters here seem to realise.

A "foregone conclusion"? Maybe for Pristina, but certainly not for a good chunk of the world. If the shatterpoint is essentially U.S. recognition, then it is a tenuous shatterpoint indeed. I can't say that Kosovo's retention in Serbia is a "foregone conclusion" either, but I do think that whatever outcome results for Kosovo, it will be a very weak and very limited independence indeed. Serbia might actually get off better in the end with the provisions entrusted to it for letting Kosovo go. I'd advise the Pristina team, and in fact Team Kosova in general, not to be so glib. If things do not go their way, they shouldn't blame others for their problems, as they've been repeatedly doing in the past.

Kate autonomy is not a compromise K-Albanians can live with. We had it and we had it removed at the whim of Milosevic. And then he tried to get rid of every last one of us. So thanks, but no thanks.
As for the criminality aspect well look at Serbia itself, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Italy, Russia. Kosova is not really an exception. Actually not being a state at all and being run by the UN you should not really be surprised by it. But differently from what you might think we are not genetically programmed to become criminals. (And you should know that criminals are really very open minded people Kate: Albanian criminals have excellent cooperation with Serb ones. One of Arkan's closest 'business' associates was an Albanian.)
And besides Kosova is gonna become a much blacker hole if given back to Serbia than otherwise. So what you are proposing in practical terms amounts to: complete break down in law and order war and a regional mess. Kosova will suffer, but so will Serbia.
As for Serbia's importance, well Serbia is not Yugoslavia. It is important but it won't be the end of the world for NATO if Serbia doesn't join. The result would be a landlocked Serbia and its Russian friends would have to ask for NATO permission in order to get there.

One of the members of the negotiations team representing Serbia that was in London this last time said the following

"To our surprise mediators from EU and US wanted to hear more about the details of our proposal for a viable autonomy in Kosovo. We considered, however, that this was not the time and place to uncover all of our cards. These details will be a matter of direct meeting with Albanians"

I am wondering what is his opinion, was he for a nice picnic in London or for negotiating a serious issue for Serbia? Incompetence summarizes best this person (and by large current Serb leadership that is ruling without impunity in Serbia). This is the same person that not long ago claimed that Montenegro was a "quasi" state. So by no means this is not his first screw up or intolerance towards anything that is not Serbian. I wonder when will Serb officials see it fit to reveal their plan? Albanians in Kosovo have long, long time ago made their plan available. Also, they have a detailed plan on hand (in the form of the Ahtissari's plan) and that is way the world (except Russia and Serbia) considers them a more serious side in these negotiations than the "quasi" officials representing the Serb side.

Hence, I am not sure who is in for a rude awakening, or what whom promised, or who has lost its mind, but unless Serb government officials come up with a spectacular proposal on the next meeting (something highly unlikely given their past and current performances), this is leading only one way and that is a Serb political fiasco, similar to the one that brought NATO actions in Balkans. Only this time the bomb is going to be an independent Kosovo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,,2172568,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

The above link provides a more accurate scenerio of what is currently going on. Ceku and Sedjiu can threaten all they want. Unfortunately, they don't have the force behind them to see their dreams come to fruition.

Olf..."Many of you that live abroad support Milosevic ideas"
With what facts do you base this statement? Your generalization is inaccurate and serves no purpose other then to encourage anger and discord.
I believe that Tudjman, Milosevic and Izetbegovic were made from the same mold, one was no less quilty than the other. That all three of them did not face worldly justice is unfortunate.

"Independence is foregone conclusion", i think not. The albanians love to judge Serbian politicians. Perhaps it would be more apt if they judged their own. After all, Vojislav Kostunica promised the Serbs that he would retain Kosovo and has indeed delivered. What have the albanian politicians promised their minions? And what have they delivered?

I am not in favor of an independent Kosovo but, I agree with Teni. Serbia must wisen up and elect better representatives to government than some of the old tired faces that sit there now. And concerning Illic, I wouldn't trust this guy running a kafana. Him being Serbia's president would be an insult to it's people.

BRatG,

I agree. There needs to be made a decision. We all know that cannot be full independence.

Olf,

Let's have two referendums. One in Kosovo. One in the whole of Serbia (including of course Kosovo). If the result of BOTH referendums is: independence.... then Kosovo can get independent.
OK?

kate,

Indeed. Let's negotiate. But the end result must be what I want.
Well, if Israel or the Palestians would act that way everyone would say: it doesn't work out that way. But for Kosovo it can? No way! Both sides must give up things!

teni,

And if Northern Kosovo declares independence of Kosovo? What must happen then?

Teni: "But differently from what you might think we are not genetically programmed to become criminals."

I never said that, and don't think that. I said that Kosovo was a through route for criminal gangs, and they are not just Kosovan.

Poverty leads to more crime in any society, so it is important that the solution helps to take Kosovo forward.

@ OLF
“For those that think that Serbs need Kosovo, come to Serbia and ask the Serbian people one by one. They will tell you precisely what they think of Kosovo and if they need Kosovo at all”

Well I live in Novi Sad, does that count as Serbia? I say NO INDEPENDENCE. Ciao.

@Avi
“Look where is Croatia,Slovenia,Montenegro,Macedonia none of them had green light by Serbia so why wait and loose time,prosperity etc.”

Only difference is those countries have a long history of independence whereas the Albanians in Kosovo are tenants and have never had independence. Also, it’s the Serbian heartland and we’re not giving it away to any tenants! those republics were a part of jugoslavija NOT serbia- big difference.

Kosova will get independence because US and majority of Kosova want it. US nad NATO are staying in Kosova. Just remember that they did not come to Kosova to vacation!!!

-As far as some posters agrument that Russia is getting stronger and US weaker, it does not matter even if it is so. I tell you why. If US weakens that means that the only way to have bases in Kosova is for Kosova to be independent. Because, a strong Russia and Serbia would mean that US would never be able to have their bases guaranted in Kosova. Therefore, Kosova will be independent be it that US is weaker than Russia or stronger.

There is no hope for Serbia in Kosova because even if no formal international recognition is made, just remember that Albanians already have a state and Albania has already officialy apropriated the seaport of Shen Gjin to be used by Kosovars.

So all Kosovars need to do is not allow for an inch of Kosova land to be given to Serbia. In addition, they should demand that Kosova's serb minority rights be the same as those of Albanians in Serbia and no territory exchange. The Kosova serbs should learn how to live in indenpendent Kosova same as Albanians in Southern Serbia are living in Serbia. No double standards!!!

The end of the talks of 10 December will most likely make serbs wish that they accepted Ahtisaari plan. Time will tell

KASTRIOTI,

We agree: no double standards.
No breach of international law for Kurdistan and Tibet (Tibet was independent by the way!) so no breach either for Kosovo.

No double standards: autonomy for Kosovo. OF COURSE! But in Serbia.

I don't know why everyone is in such denial of the fact that:

A) The Albanians are saying they will declare independence on December 10th, and that is unavoidable because they can declare independence if they want to.
B) The US and major EU countries have said they WILL recognize this independence.

Now, does anyone think, that all of a sudden, in a drastic change of events, on December 10th, everyone will take back their word...and risk their own reputations, by saying, NO INDEPENDENCE?

And does anyone think that the Albanians will care after December 10th if Russia or Serbia or Greece or Slovakia don't recognize this independence?

I don't think so!

The cards are all laid out. Independence will be announced, it will be recognized by major world players, and even a MULTI-NATIONAL war cannot do much about it...other then destabilize the region, and antagonise the war-launchers even more, which they obviously are not interested in, not in this day and age.

to funcakes:

So they won't go back on what they said. Hmmm. Funny how Ischinger is the SOLE representative of the EU on this matter and he's ruled out independence. So what major countries are insisting on independence....none. Certain countries have voiced the view that they THINK independence is the best option. Oh, sorry there is one country that has insisted on independence, the US. Well we don't live in the US. We live in Europe.

Well, sorry to break it to you, but with US support...Albanians will not really wait longer than the 120 days gift that they gave Europe to get it together. Unlike previous times, they have locked in their December 10th independence decision, it's not "we hope by end May, beginning of July", "we hope by the end of summer".

They are saying the case is closed and there's no going back.

Independence cannot be stopped because the Albanians CAN declare it in their gov't, and there's technically nothing to stop that.

Recognition of that independence cannot be stopped if certain countries decide to recognize it. Just like the US and Canada went ahead and recognized Macedonia with it's name, despite what almighty Greece might have thought.

So, what's really stopping the Albanians?

They have US support, and that's enough. Even if the US was alone at recognizing this independence, that would be enough for them to go ahead and announce it. In fact, the only reason it was not announced, was because the US asked them to give the Europeans the 6 month "presssure-time" to get it together, and if they can't, they would have a hard time asking for more time, and the Albanians could reject it easier.

What US says, takes priority over Europe in Albaniandom.