Koštunica says DSS is against NATO membership

Why on Earth would Serbia join NATO in the first place, what kind of reasons for joining is there? It is keen to join the Coalition of the Willing and send troops to Iraq? Is Serbia under some military threat (other than from NATO, I mean))?

You are right mr. Prime Minister, you dont have to join NATO. I think that joining the EU is a must.
As far as Kosovo/a, it is not an integral part of Serbia, never has been.
Albanians are just taking back what does NOT belong to Serbia, but belongs to them. You occupied Kosovo/a for a long time. Time has come to have Independence for Kosovo/a and good neighbourly relations. This will benefit the serbian minority in Kosovo/a, and everybody else.
Kosovo/a as we speak is de facto InDEPENDENT and out of reach for you, mr. Prime Minister.
And that Kalashnikov, you should refrain yourself from taking pictures with it. Toss it in the garbage.
That is my advice to you mr. Prime Minister.

Lazer,
If Kosovo was always yours then why can't i find Kosovo or Kosova anywhere in the Albanian language. On top of that in 1389 the Serbs fought the invading Turks, if it was yours why didn't you fight? I live in California and went to UC Santa Barbara and never in any history text here in America did I find any mention of Albanians in the great fight against the Ottomans. If it is was always yours you would have been fighting the Turks not the Serbs. Come on man save your comments for fairytale time at your local library. It is just like when your Albanians say they did nothing wrong in both world wars when you lost both wars fighting with the German war machine. And the Serbs WON. That is fact, don't claim something that is not yours, why does B92 even let you make those comments.

Laki, I am not talking about military structures, I am talking about marketplaces, civilian trains, bridges, media outlets, Chinese embassy, and so on. These are not military targets. Bridges on the Danube had nothing to do with Kosovo. Not to mention that NATO used depleted uranium and cluster bombs, which will continue to kill both Albanians and Serbs for years to come. I understand that NATO was your saviour in Kosovo but, NATO intervened in a cowardly air offensive in an over-kill fashion to display their might. Whether the innocent people were Albanian or Serbian, indiscriminately killing them is a crime.

and Laki, there were at least 2000+ Serbian civilians killed by NATO's humanitarian intervention. God knows how many Albanians they killed trying to target the Serbian military in Kosovo. You can google this and find the numbers for yourself. Open your eyes, NATO is no angel.

As much as I dislike Kostunica, I see him as a remnant of the old 90's Belgrade political guard, that did not act in the best interests of it's citizens but, he does have a point concerning NATO. Basically, NATO bombed Serbia/Montenegro just 8 years ago. It killed 1000's of innocent people and destroyed infrastucture unnecessarily. That was an evil display of power. If NATO's purpose was to drive Serbian military out of Kosovo, why bomb civilians in a marketplace in Nis? It was a cowardly act. A longer period of time has to pass before Serbia should consider any kind of allegiance with military body.

"Nodonedeal said :
NATO “ killed 1000's of innocent people and destroyed infrastucture unnecessarily.”

Nodonedeal show me proof where NATO killed 1000's of innocent people then explain to me how weapons factory was “infrastucture unnecessarily” dewstroyed ?

Back up your statement with evidence.
(laki NY, 15. September 2007 19:37) "

Maybe not in the thousands, but enough to indict Nato as 'wanton murderers' in my opionion. They DELIBERATELY bombed the tv station knowing it was occupied.

And the Chinese alleged to this day that the bombing of their embassy (also with inhabitants inside) were premeditated.

And they have the cheek to accord a fanciful name for such civilian deaths -- collateral damage!

to (Mark)

NATO bombing didnt even scratched a serbia military, but destroyed 50% of the economic structures.

And no, its clear that nobody is going to give up the part of his land that easily.

Nodonedeal said :
NATO “ killed 1000's of innocent people and destroyed infrastucture unnecessarily.”

Nodonedeal show me proof where NATO killed 1000's of innocent people then explain to me how weapons factory was “infrastucture unnecessarily” dewstroyed ?

Back up your statement with evidence.

Then Serbia will be the black sheep of Europa.It will be seen as a Rusian outpost in Europa and its Europian Union membership in doubt. U.S even though not part of the union has a big say over memberships.Serbia has only one natural choice: becoming a part of Rusian federation where it really belonngs.Good luck!

Well said PM, NATO in fact did illegally bomb Serbia for its own interests, despite being told NO by the UN and others.

Serbia has no need of NATO, we prefer keeping our soldiers here.

Please...all you Albanians can say is Kostunica is Milosevic and so on really he's is nothing if the kind.

He is rock solid on his policy's and wont sell out to anyone.

To (laki NY).

So you ignore what NATO did in serbia?
First exact figures of 3000 civilian victims were confirmed by NATO, you should go on google and type "Djakovica bombing", "residental area bombing"...

NATO did lightly damaged a serbia military factory in 99. But they destroyed all bridges, they shot on public transport rail roads, they damaged many hospitals, schools, destroyed many food processing factories, cloches factories, plastic factories, electricity stations, water pumps and supply, refineries, very dangerous fertilizer factories near residental areas, they bombed bussed and trains.... and many other unnecessary and civilian things that have nothing to do whit war in south serbia.

On military side they drooped 30 000 bombs in serbia and destroyed 14 serbian tanks, 20 APC and killed about 300 soldiers of 30 000 only in kosovo. What you think other bombs hit?

When NATO bombing started serbia forces and KLA guerrillas too both chased almost 800 000 people from kosovo...

It does Serbia little good to label the NATO bombing as illegal - there is a legal justification and there was just cause. It undermines any moral argument to blame NATO when in fact the immorality was committed (throughout the Balkans) by those who killed innocents through disgusting nationalistic motives.

The moral obligation on the west to intevene was incredibly strong after the wickednesses committed in Bosnia - Milosevic was stupid not to see that he would be stopped and effectively invited the bombing. NATO was under political and moral pressure to act - both Milosevic and the majority of Serbia could not see this and so the bombing happened. Serbia is wrong to blame others - it was stopped from repeating its earlier mistakes.

However, NATO and the US have gone beyond humanitarian issues into impositional politics. I believe that this is a fundamental mistake that will destroy NATO's ability to use the humanitarian argument in the future. I personally think that I would like to see more intervention against states that act maliciously and violently against innocent civilians (e.g., the UN could intervene in Darfur and Zimbabwe). This cannot happen when the intevening forces are seen to have improper motives (as is the case in Iraq for example where the US was seen as good for getting rid of Saddam but bad in just about everything else!).

It creates resentment and right-wing political reaction in Serbia because the west's improper motives are very evident in the case of Kosovo. I think that many European politicians have begun to see this and (while wanting to present a 'united front') are moving towards a better understanding of the problems this creates for democratic politicians in Serbia.

I think Kostunica's nationalism has partially blinded him to the external view of Serbia - and it is bad for Serbia if its politicians do not understand the way Serbia is percieved from the outside. Unfortunately, statements like this from Kostunica could be interpreted negatively. In fact Serbia is moving very fast in the right direction - it is essential that the west does not unnecessarily force Serbia into marginalisation when the future is so promising (democracy, the rule of law, EU integration etc).

On all other points however, I think Kostunica has made a valid judgement and that this article makes sense; given the things that have happened and are happening, the logic for joining NATO is not in place. Maybe Serbia could revisit the NATO issue in the future, but for now I believe it is best left on the back-burner.

You can sense the fear in Kostunica's speech. He knows that once US recognizes Kosova's unilateral moves, the rest of NATO countries will follow like a flock of sheep.

Not joining NATO, Serbia proves that it's not ready to reject its past and present land grabbing inhesions against its neighbours.

Kosova has never been nor will it be part of Serbia again.

Hamid, Destan,

I fully agree with you. I just want to add that even if the current Serbia would join,with Kalasnikov Kostunica it would not be a reliable partner but a Trojan horse for the Russians.

lazer,

You must be kidding. Kosovo is part of Serbia for a long time.
Agianst the will of its people? Even from the start? Perhaps. But same goes for an awful lot of regions on the planet.
Kurdistan, Tibet (Tibet was independent by the way, once), France occupied areas once belonged to the Netherlands. Poland lost areas to the USSR.

You really want to fix all this - overlapping! - issues?
You want to break up Russia, India, China and Pakistan?

Let's not do it. So no special treatment for Kosovo. Sorry!

Kostunica is correct in his assessment. He is acting as a Prime Minister needs to act when threatened by external sources. NATO is a cold war relic that needs to be landfilled or recycled into something productive. It bombed and occupied Kosovo on humanitarian excuses, and now wants the UN out so it has full control.

The Kosovo War lies shows how easy it is to blind the public with propaganda for alternative motives. The US now has an airbase in Europe that has no laws to abide by except the Chain of Command - no German rules, no Italian rules, no rules period.

The Kosovo War makes all humanitarian intervention unlikely. Darfur is probably a lie too. How can we be sure that Darfur is not some hoax being put forward so NATO can have an airbase in Africa? You can't. The first victim in an act of war is the truth. Rabouillet Peace talks were a lie and so were the numbers (100s of thousands) being printed and discussed in the press about missing and displaced persons.

Kostunica is correct that Serbia has been non-aligned. Kostunica is also correct in opposing membership to an aggressive military alliance that bombed, occupied, and now is severing (permanently partitioning) a sovereign nation. A sovereign nation he has sworn to serve.

Bravo Kostunica!!!

I cannot excuse what NATO did in Serbia in 1999. I am not sure if NATO killed thousands of civilians but I do believe that it killed more than one too many. NATO made a mistake. Nevertheless, I believe that Serbia MUST join NATO.

First, I ask all the readers to consider Serbia's real security needs and consider the following: All of Serbia's neighbors will join NATO; all of its former enemies, all of those which have had territorial disputes with Serbia, all of those that in the future may want to provoke, taunt and poke at Serbia for political gain will be joining NATO. Serbia will be powerless if it does not join and it cannot expect any type of relationship with Russia and Greece to protect it if things really start falling down on it. To those that think that peace will be a constant for the decades to come, I ask you to be more careful and to think long-term so that Serbia's security is protected to the highest extent, which would be by joining NATO. Counterfactually, it is likely that Yugoslavia would not have broken up had it been in NATO.

Second, Serbia MUST join NATO since the PfP participation and the road to NATO accession is a critical and complementary part to joining the EU.

The question that we should ask ourselves is not "Should Serbia should join NATO?" (all logic would say yes), but instead "Is Serbia ready to join NATO?"

Serbia is not ready since it still needs to continue and accelerate reforms that will make modernize its security sector, and make it subject to operate more democratically and under democratic control. Engaging in PfP activities and programs will help Serbia attain the increasingly stricter credentials for joining NATO.

Second, psychologically, Serbia is not ready as most of the comments here point out. Because of this, it must begin to work with itself and with NATO and NATO members towards reconciliation. Important events will have to be addressed in the public eye from political leaders in NATO and in Serbia to help heal wounds.

Regardless of its intent, Serbia is clearly not ready to join, but it should prepare itself to qualify so that it can be able to make a choice when the real time to decide comes.

It is in NATO's best interest that Serbia join simply because Serbia's membership would significantly help lock in peace and stability in the Balkans.

to (Jorge Garcia)

Do you know that only 51% of serbia population want to enter EU? That number risk to fall dramaticaly if kosovo get independent.

Second my personal opinion is in those 49%, cause i want serbia to be indepandant state and not join those who we dont know either if they are our friedns or not. or maybe only wants to control one more country.

Serbia is not angry on NATO EU or USA, many people forgiven what happened in 99. But Serbia only need a good trade and diplomatic relations whit EU and NATO. Serbia should not join it.

Serbian secutiry forces are most powerful, equiped and trained then in any ex yu country. Serbia is still a regional military power.

The way of life in serbia is very good in this moment, it wasnt maybe 5 years ago. It should not change. Only thing we need for the moment is a bit more money and stable economy. Whits can me done whit good trading and diplomatic relations whit EU&NATO.
So its only thing Serbia needs right now.

How can you join a military force that bombed you to stone age few years ago? Serbia is not angry on EU&NATO, not even under the bombs, but very disappointed.

I was in belgrade at bombing time so i know what a talk about. Joining NATO would be a disgrace for those who are the victims of that war of domination that NATO leaded on Serbia. It wasn't a humanitarian bombing as explained in western TV's, cause they created a humanitarian disaster for both Serbians and Albanians.

Serbia would be a rich ehough and developed country today if that didn't happened.

Read Montgomery's atatement about NATO being used as a wedge issue between DSS and DS. This is an in-house political strategy to take the political wind away from DS since NATO is still generally hated in Serbia

Statement made by Kostunica is telling me that Serbian goverment is still having same strategy like Milosevic. Nato bombing was supposed to destroy military troops that were being used by Milosevic to destroy and kill humans. This proves that also Kostunca have same ideology like Milosevic. Making Serbia isolated country is an stupid idea that normal citizens of serbia I am sure 100% does not like.

Tell Bill Gates I don't want 1000 Class A stocks in Microsoft Corp...Oh wait, how can I deny a offer THAT HASN'T even been made yet and probably never will!!!! There is a reason why NATO is in KOSOVO now and not in Serbia, it's because they don't want to be in Serbia. I do like the concept of joining Serbia to Russia though. That, I can understand and I encourage Serbs to continue to push for your country in that direction, because you really have been blackballed from the rest of the civilized Western World.

“How can it be possible for Serbia to join a military alliance that first bombed it, and then sent its troops to Kosovo circumventing the UN Security Council, only to recognize the unilaterally proclaimed independence of an integral part of Serbia,” Koštunica told his party's main board.
Maybe you should start by scratching your head first and think how did this happen that they bombed us in first place.
To be quite frank, Nato should have bombed a long time ago (that is military objects, not civilians, no disrespect to serbian people) when Milosevic started the cleansing in Bosnia, Nato should have bombed Milosevic right there and then, and maybe that would have been a wake up call. Milosevic would have realized that Nato is not joking around.
Instead, a lot of people had to die in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo, let's not forget Slovenia, for the war to stop. Let me remind you Mr. primeminister that before Nato intervened, nobody minded of bombs falling into Dubrovnik,Sarajevo or other places. As long as Belgrade was safe who cared what other city was being bombed or burned(by Serbs). In other words what you did to others Nato did to you, simple as that.
So then, Milosevic (with plenty followers like yourself) did not have enough, so he wanted to do the same in Kosovo. Well he tried but instead he failed and gave away the Kosovo to Nato with his own hands.
So, to answer the question of Mr. primeminister. Yes,you can choose not to be a Nato member and nobody is forcing you, but as far the Kosovo problem goes, Nato is completing what you(Serbs) started.

Lazer,
your made up "hero" was nowhere to be found in the 15 texts I searched for. So sorry. You still didn't answer me why I can't find Kosovo or Kosova in the Albanina language or Mitrovica ... I can go on and on. Show me where there is Kosovo / Kosova in Albanian. And I dont doubt your people being around that area in 1389 but judging by your first being Christians as Catholics and then converting Islam, well that tells me everything. When the German war machine ran through the balkans you couldn't stand up and fight for freedom you as a state fought with the Nazi's. Again maybe you had some individuals who loved freedom and fought against the Germans, but fact is as a state you were pro Nazi. So if you were fighting in 1389 you were fighting with Islam and what at that time stood against freedom, invation, oppression, injustice. Oh that kind of sounds like what the 200000 Serbs that live as refugees now in Serbia lived through today. And what countless of other Serbs lived through throughout this past century, 1981 student riots, i can go on and on. Show me where there is Kosovo Kosova in Albanian language.

To: Rocky

You can not find anywhere name Kosovo becasue the real name of Kosovo is Dardania. Read here carefully and you will understand the history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardania_%28Europe%29

"Lazer,
If Kosovo was always yours then why can't i find Kosovo or Kosova anywhere in the Albanian language. On top of that in 1389 the Serbs fought the invading Turks, if it was yours why didn't you fight? I live in California and went to UC Santa Barbara and never in any history text here in America did I find any mention of Albanians in the great fight against the Ottomans. If it is was always yours you would have been fighting the Turks not the Serbs. Come on man save your comments for fairytale time at your local library. It is just like when your Albanians say they did nothing wrong in both world wars when you lost both wars fighting with the German war machine. And the Serbs WON. That is fact, don't claim something that is not yours, why does B92 even let you make those comments.
(Rocky, 15. September 2007 18:46) "

Rocky, I dont know what books are you reading but 1389 Serbia did NOT fight alone against the Turks.
There were Albanians, Bulgarians Hungarians and what not.
Albanians have a hero in their history called Gjergj Kastrioti, Turks called him Skander-bey, 'cause he was taken as a 7 year old in Istambul and became the biggest Turkish general, but he abandoned Turkey and went back to fight the Turks in Balkans, Albania and Kosovo/a mainly. Turks were rejected for 25 years until he died and after that Turks overran Albania. He died in 1468 A.D.
You can look up by his name on any search engine.
I am sure you are not gonna like what you see there.
I live in New York City and just the Public Library has more books then almost all of them put together in US. So, keep your advice for yourself and get back to school and read some more diversified material and not PRO-Serbian propaganda books, especially the ones full of lies or untruths told by W. Dorich.

I think that even if referendum of NATO membership was called - the answer would be negative. I agree - given the complex circumstances - Serbia's best route lies in abstaining from military alliances.
And EU membership is a separate issue. I supposes polls can and will verify that.
As for new ideas for reaching the solution for Kosovo, look into excellent article by Wes Johnson (published on 15th September on "New Europe" ) - here is the link:
http://www.Europe.eu/articles/77689.php

I think that even if referendum of NATO membership was called - the answer would be negative. I agree - given the complex circumstances - Serbia's best route lies in abstaining from military alliances.
And EU membership is a separate issue. I suppose polls can and will verify that.
As for new ideas for reaching the solution for Kosovo, look into excellent article by Wes Johnson (published on 15th September on "New Europe" ) - here is the link:
http://www.Europe.eu/articles/77689.php

Serbian military convoys used Albanian refuges as human shields to deter attacks on their troop movement , since they know NATO will not attack civilian.

“Serbian forces compelled Kosovar Albanians to accompany Serbian military convoys and shield facilities throughout the province”
“Beginning in mid-April, Serbian forces used Kosovar Albanian men to shield military convoys from NATO airstrikes. Serbian forces reportedly removed young Kosovar Albanian men from refugee columns and forced them to form a buffer zone around Serbian convoys. Numerous Kosovar Albanians claimed to have witnessed and participated in this activity on the roads between Pec, Djakovica, and Kosovska Mitrovica.”
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Reports/document.html

UK Foreign Secretary Robin Cook accused the Yugoslav authorities of hypocrisy.

"How dare they now produce crocodile tears for people killed in the conflict for which they are responsible," he
said.

Until today you display no remorse for atrocities committed by Serbs and continuously manipulate with death of Albanian civilian for propaganda purposes.

I say the same to entire Serbian camp here how dare you produce crocodile tears for people killed in the conflict for which your government (Serbian), brothers and sisters are responsible.

Ovich please talk only on behalf of the Serbs. Albanians do not need an anti-NATO person as our mouthpiece.

to (laki NY)

Tell me one thing. How can NATO jet to detect if there are soldiers or civilians if he see such "human shield"?They bombed a refugee column near Djakovica and killed about 150 civilians are wounded good knows how much others.
The pilot asked 3 times the confirmation of the order.
"What sould i bomb? the traktors?!"
As he witnessed.

From 15000ft that NATO jets were missing to hit the big buildings sometimes.

Ovich, you say Serbia was bombed to the stone age. I am not saying that many civilian or "dual use" targets were not bombed or that many innocent people did not perish, or that very important infrastructure was not lost, but I find your comment completely exaggerated and hysterical considering the damage that Cambodia, Laos, the Netherlands, Germany, Japan and other countries (even Yugoslavia) suffered from truly ruthless bombardment. These countries truly were bombed to the stone age.

Nevertheless, in Europe, Germany learned how to make peace with those countries which had wrecked it flat. It joined NATO roughly five years after NATO's founding and today is a core member of the alliance. It created the basis of a great multinational entity, later to be known as the EU, in conjunction with its historic rival and bitter enemies. I am sorry to say, but that you cannot even consider a form of reconciliation like that of the Germans, almost belittles your character.

As far as your comments concerning Serbian support for the EU, I tend to see much different results in polls. The ones I have seen seem to indicate that over 60% is pro EU, but that a majority is skeptical about NATO. Those opposing EU entry are often those who feel that it will be obtained at the cost of losing Kosovo, which in my opinion, is the basis for a raw deal. If the Kosovo issue were delinked from EU entry, I would expect EU support to be much much higher.

For those who advocate an Austria, Norway or Switzerland solution, I just don t believe Serbia can compare with these countries strategically, economically, politically or militarily.

Ovich, you paint a rosy picture in Serbia. Maybe you are well off, but unemployment tops 20% (and these are official estimates), and Serbia, despite its growth is a ways from catching up to its neighbors, let alone Greece or Slovenia. I hate to break it to you, but as much as Serbia is advancing, it has a long way to go, and there is no reason to keep things from going faster than they already are. Anti-EU or anti-NATO sentiment only delays achieving real prosperity.

Ovich, I apologize for my comment against your character. It was actually not directed at you, especially given your recognition that many Serbs have forgiven NATO for any past mistakes. I will direct such comment only at those who dwell on the past to the point where they cannot overcome it. Ovich, I actually thank you for keeping the discussion alive and by reintroducing the EU factor.All the best.

To Jorge Garcia

Yes Serbian unemployment rate is 20%. But 2 years ago it was 40%.
4 years ago average salary in serbia was less then 200eu, today its 350eu. Not alot but higher then in Bulragy and Rumania who are EU members and who had no 10 years of isolation and general industrial destruction. I dont even wanna talk about albania.

We were suposed to be the poorest county in europe
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/427670.stm

I see that many people dont even see what happened in serbia in 99. They dont even know what was the biggest allied air campaign after ww2. And against one other ex allied country.

Ovich, there you go, exaggerating all over again. 40% unemployment last year in Serbia--give me a break. Maybe, but you know that was not an official estimate, so do not compare apples and oranges--I was using official figures. Your wage comparison is also flawed.

One thing that is also very troubling is how most people in the Balkans still seem to imagine Albania today as if it were in the sixties. In case you have not been there, it's actually up and bustling, and I would not be surprised if it still topped Serbia economically on many levels. Why don't you take a trip there one day so you can confirm to the rest? As far as Serbia topping Romania and Bulgaria, maybe so if you compare Belgrade to a town, but I doubt statistics (if used consistently) would support your claims. If you want to think, like Adam and Eve did, that you are living in paradise, well, the grass is still much greener on the other side, and it will stay so for a few more years.

I hate to break it to you, but the dramatic points you made in this section seem to epitomize the cliché view of Serbia by the West: a self-portrayal as the ultimate victim, becoming the ultimate hero and over-achiever. When exaggerated, this self-characterization alienates Serbia from the West. Instead of earning the recognition for the incredible suffering, courage and achievements of the Serb people, your hyperbole causes those outside Serbia to question it, suspecting cynicism and arrogance. But then again, you do not seem to care about Western support since you think it'll be a piece of cake for Serbia to do it alone. You're wrong.

I sent my comment - with a link to the article Kosovo: “Thinking Outside Of The Box" bt Wes Johnson, - but as there is something wrong with a link - here is the link again:
http://www.neurope.eu/articles/77689.php
Cheers.

to (Jorge Garcia)

You try to say that i lie?
No cause i refer only to the numbers that i find around.

UMNIK numbers says this:
http://www.unmikonline.org/pub/focuskos/sept05/focuskeco9.htm

I know better then you whats going on in serbia, i dont know about albania.

Adrian,
that is so funny then why don't your people refer to it as that, every Albanian calls it either Kosova or Kosove. Come on man, save it. What about Mitrovica, and a thousand other names all across Kosovo that just now the Albanians are changing, if it was Albanian then it wouldnt be called Kosovo or Kosova.

Ovich, I never said you lied. I said that you have a tendency of comparing apples and oranges, and that this leads to exaggeration which discredits your arguments and objectivity.

I value objectivity and temperance much than knowledge from those in the Balkans, but it's still great to know that you think you are knowledgeable . . . Let's move on to the next round. . . .

You are right mr. Prime Minister, you dont have to join NATO. I think that joining the EU is a must.
As far as Kosovo/a, it is not an integral part of Serbia, never has been.
Albanians are just taking back what does NOT belong to Serbia, but belongs to them. You occupied Kosovo/a for a long time. Time has come to have Independence for Kosovo/a and good neighbourly relations. This will benefit the serbian minority in Kosovo/a, and everybody else.
Kosovo/a as we speak is de facto InDEPENDENT and out of reach for you, mr. Prime Minister.
And that Kalashnikov, you should refrain yourself from taking pictures with it. Toss it in the garbage.
That is my advice to you mr. Prime Minister.

It does Serbia little good to label the NATO bombing as illegal - there is a legal justification and there was just cause. It undermines any moral argument to blame NATO when in fact the immorality was committed (throughout the Balkans) by those who killed innocents through disgusting nationalistic motives.

The moral obligation on the west to intevene was incredibly strong after the wickednesses committed in Bosnia - Milosevic was stupid not to see that he would be stopped and effectively invited the bombing. NATO was under political and moral pressure to act - both Milosevic and the majority of Serbia could not see this and so the bombing happened. Serbia is wrong to blame others - it was stopped from repeating its earlier mistakes.

However, NATO and the US have gone beyond humanitarian issues into impositional politics. I believe that this is a fundamental mistake that will destroy NATO's ability to use the humanitarian argument in the future. I personally think that I would like to see more intervention against states that act maliciously and violently against innocent civilians (e.g., the UN could intervene in Darfur and Zimbabwe). This cannot happen when the intevening forces are seen to have improper motives (as is the case in Iraq for example where the US was seen as good for getting rid of Saddam but bad in just about everything else!).

It creates resentment and right-wing political reaction in Serbia because the west's improper motives are very evident in the case of Kosovo. I think that many European politicians have begun to see this and (while wanting to present a 'united front') are moving towards a better understanding of the problems this creates for democratic politicians in Serbia.

I think Kostunica's nationalism has partially blinded him to the external view of Serbia - and it is bad for Serbia if its politicians do not understand the way Serbia is percieved from the outside. Unfortunately, statements like this from Kostunica could be interpreted negatively. In fact Serbia is moving very fast in the right direction - it is essential that the west does not unnecessarily force Serbia into marginalisation when the future is so promising (democracy, the rule of law, EU integration etc).

On all other points however, I think Kostunica has made a valid judgement and that this article makes sense; given the things that have happened and are happening, the logic for joining NATO is not in place. Maybe Serbia could revisit the NATO issue in the future, but for now I believe it is best left on the back-burner.

Then Serbia will be the black sheep of Europa.It will be seen as a Rusian outpost in Europa and its Europian Union membership in doubt. U.S even though not part of the union has a big say over memberships.Serbia has only one natural choice: becoming a part of Rusian federation where it really belonngs.Good luck!

As much as I dislike Kostunica, I see him as a remnant of the old 90's Belgrade political guard, that did not act in the best interests of it's citizens but, he does have a point concerning NATO. Basically, NATO bombed Serbia/Montenegro just 8 years ago. It killed 1000's of innocent people and destroyed infrastucture unnecessarily. That was an evil display of power. If NATO's purpose was to drive Serbian military out of Kosovo, why bomb civilians in a marketplace in Nis? It was a cowardly act. A longer period of time has to pass before Serbia should consider any kind of allegiance with military body.

Nodonedeal said :
NATO “ killed 1000's of innocent people and destroyed infrastucture unnecessarily.”

Nodonedeal show me proof where NATO killed 1000's of innocent people then explain to me how weapons factory was “infrastucture unnecessarily” dewstroyed ?

Back up your statement with evidence.

Hamid, Destan,

I fully agree with you. I just want to add that even if the current Serbia would join,with Kalasnikov Kostunica it would not be a reliable partner but a Trojan horse for the Russians.

Statement made by Kostunica is telling me that Serbian goverment is still having same strategy like Milosevic. Nato bombing was supposed to destroy military troops that were being used by Milosevic to destroy and kill humans. This proves that also Kostunca have same ideology like Milosevic. Making Serbia isolated country is an stupid idea that normal citizens of serbia I am sure 100% does not like.

Tell Bill Gates I don't want 1000 Class A stocks in Microsoft Corp...Oh wait, how can I deny a offer THAT HASN'T even been made yet and probably never will!!!! There is a reason why NATO is in KOSOVO now and not in Serbia, it's because they don't want to be in Serbia. I do like the concept of joining Serbia to Russia though. That, I can understand and I encourage Serbs to continue to push for your country in that direction, because you really have been blackballed from the rest of the civilized Western World.

“How can it be possible for Serbia to join a military alliance that first bombed it, and then sent its troops to Kosovo circumventing the UN Security Council, only to recognize the unilaterally proclaimed independence of an integral part of Serbia,” Koštunica told his party's main board.
Maybe you should start by scratching your head first and think how did this happen that they bombed us in first place.
To be quite frank, Nato should have bombed a long time ago (that is military objects, not civilians, no disrespect to serbian people) when Milosevic started the cleansing in Bosnia, Nato should have bombed Milosevic right there and then, and maybe that would have been a wake up call. Milosevic would have realized that Nato is not joking around.
Instead, a lot of people had to die in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo, let's not forget Slovenia, for the war to stop. Let me remind you Mr. primeminister that before Nato intervened, nobody minded of bombs falling into Dubrovnik,Sarajevo or other places. As long as Belgrade was safe who cared what other city was being bombed or burned(by Serbs). In other words what you did to others Nato did to you, simple as that.
So then, Milosevic (with plenty followers like yourself) did not have enough, so he wanted to do the same in Kosovo. Well he tried but instead he failed and gave away the Kosovo to Nato with his own hands.
So, to answer the question of Mr. primeminister. Yes,you can choose not to be a Nato member and nobody is forcing you, but as far the Kosovo problem goes, Nato is completing what you(Serbs) started.

I cannot excuse what NATO did in Serbia in 1999. I am not sure if NATO killed thousands of civilians but I do believe that it killed more than one too many. NATO made a mistake. Nevertheless, I believe that Serbia MUST join NATO.

First, I ask all the readers to consider Serbia's real security needs and consider the following: All of Serbia's neighbors will join NATO; all of its former enemies, all of those which have had territorial disputes with Serbia, all of those that in the future may want to provoke, taunt and poke at Serbia for political gain will be joining NATO. Serbia will be powerless if it does not join and it cannot expect any type of relationship with Russia and Greece to protect it if things really start falling down on it. To those that think that peace will be a constant for the decades to come, I ask you to be more careful and to think long-term so that Serbia's security is protected to the highest extent, which would be by joining NATO. Counterfactually, it is likely that Yugoslavia would not have broken up had it been in NATO.

Second, Serbia MUST join NATO since the PfP participation and the road to NATO accession is a critical and complementary part to joining the EU.

The question that we should ask ourselves is not "Should Serbia should join NATO?" (all logic would say yes), but instead "Is Serbia ready to join NATO?"

Serbia is not ready since it still needs to continue and accelerate reforms that will make modernize its security sector, and make it subject to operate more democratically and under democratic control. Engaging in PfP activities and programs will help Serbia attain the increasingly stricter credentials for joining NATO.

Second, psychologically, Serbia is not ready as most of the comments here point out. Because of this, it must begin to work with itself and with NATO and NATO members towards reconciliation. Important events will have to be addressed in the public eye from political leaders in NATO and in Serbia to help heal wounds.

Regardless of its intent, Serbia is clearly not ready to join, but it should prepare itself to qualify so that it can be able to make a choice when the real time to decide comes.

It is in NATO's best interest that Serbia join simply because Serbia's membership would significantly help lock in peace and stability in the Balkans.

Why on Earth would Serbia join NATO in the first place, what kind of reasons for joining is there? It is keen to join the Coalition of the Willing and send troops to Iraq? Is Serbia under some military threat (other than from NATO, I mean))?

Read Montgomery's atatement about NATO being used as a wedge issue between DSS and DS. This is an in-house political strategy to take the political wind away from DS since NATO is still generally hated in Serbia

Lazer,
If Kosovo was always yours then why can't i find Kosovo or Kosova anywhere in the Albanian language. On top of that in 1389 the Serbs fought the invading Turks, if it was yours why didn't you fight? I live in California and went to UC Santa Barbara and never in any history text here in America did I find any mention of Albanians in the great fight against the Ottomans. If it is was always yours you would have been fighting the Turks not the Serbs. Come on man save your comments for fairytale time at your local library. It is just like when your Albanians say they did nothing wrong in both world wars when you lost both wars fighting with the German war machine. And the Serbs WON. That is fact, don't claim something that is not yours, why does B92 even let you make those comments.

You can sense the fear in Kostunica's speech. He knows that once US recognizes Kosova's unilateral moves, the rest of NATO countries will follow like a flock of sheep.

Not joining NATO, Serbia proves that it's not ready to reject its past and present land grabbing inhesions against its neighbours.

Kosova has never been nor will it be part of Serbia again.

Laki, I am not talking about military structures, I am talking about marketplaces, civilian trains, bridges, media outlets, Chinese embassy, and so on. These are not military targets. Bridges on the Danube had nothing to do with Kosovo. Not to mention that NATO used depleted uranium and cluster bombs, which will continue to kill both Albanians and Serbs for years to come. I understand that NATO was your saviour in Kosovo but, NATO intervened in a cowardly air offensive in an over-kill fashion to display their might. Whether the innocent people were Albanian or Serbian, indiscriminately killing them is a crime.

and Laki, there were at least 2000+ Serbian civilians killed by NATO's humanitarian intervention. God knows how many Albanians they killed trying to target the Serbian military in Kosovo. You can google this and find the numbers for yourself. Open your eyes, NATO is no angel.

lazer,

You must be kidding. Kosovo is part of Serbia for a long time.
Agianst the will of its people? Even from the start? Perhaps. But same goes for an awful lot of regions on the planet.
Kurdistan, Tibet (Tibet was independent by the way, once), France occupied areas once belonged to the Netherlands. Poland lost areas to the USSR.

You really want to fix all this - overlapping! - issues?
You want to break up Russia, India, China and Pakistan?

Let's not do it. So no special treatment for Kosovo. Sorry!

Well said PM, NATO in fact did illegally bomb Serbia for its own interests, despite being told NO by the UN and others.

Serbia has no need of NATO, we prefer keeping our soldiers here.

Please...all you Albanians can say is Kostunica is Milosevic and so on really he's is nothing if the kind.

He is rock solid on his policy's and wont sell out to anyone.

"Lazer,
If Kosovo was always yours then why can't i find Kosovo or Kosova anywhere in the Albanian language. On top of that in 1389 the Serbs fought the invading Turks, if it was yours why didn't you fight? I live in California and went to UC Santa Barbara and never in any history text here in America did I find any mention of Albanians in the great fight against the Ottomans. If it is was always yours you would have been fighting the Turks not the Serbs. Come on man save your comments for fairytale time at your local library. It is just like when your Albanians say they did nothing wrong in both world wars when you lost both wars fighting with the German war machine. And the Serbs WON. That is fact, don't claim something that is not yours, why does B92 even let you make those comments.
(Rocky, 15. September 2007 18:46) "

Rocky, I dont know what books are you reading but 1389 Serbia did NOT fight alone against the Turks.
There were Albanians, Bulgarians Hungarians and what not.
Albanians have a hero in their history called Gjergj Kastrioti, Turks called him Skander-bey, 'cause he was taken as a 7 year old in Istambul and became the biggest Turkish general, but he abandoned Turkey and went back to fight the Turks in Balkans, Albania and Kosovo/a mainly. Turks were rejected for 25 years until he died and after that Turks overran Albania. He died in 1468 A.D.
You can look up by his name on any search engine.
I am sure you are not gonna like what you see there.
I live in New York City and just the Public Library has more books then almost all of them put together in US. So, keep your advice for yourself and get back to school and read some more diversified material and not PRO-Serbian propaganda books, especially the ones full of lies or untruths told by W. Dorich.

"Nodonedeal said :
NATO “ killed 1000's of innocent people and destroyed infrastucture unnecessarily.”

Nodonedeal show me proof where NATO killed 1000's of innocent people then explain to me how weapons factory was “infrastucture unnecessarily” dewstroyed ?

Back up your statement with evidence.
(laki NY, 15. September 2007 19:37) "

Maybe not in the thousands, but enough to indict Nato as 'wanton murderers' in my opionion. They DELIBERATELY bombed the tv station knowing it was occupied.

And the Chinese alleged to this day that the bombing of their embassy (also with inhabitants inside) were premeditated.

And they have the cheek to accord a fanciful name for such civilian deaths -- collateral damage!

I think that even if referendum of NATO membership was called - the answer would be negative. I agree - given the complex circumstances - Serbia's best route lies in abstaining from military alliances.
And EU membership is a separate issue. I supposes polls can and will verify that.
As for new ideas for reaching the solution for Kosovo, look into excellent article by Wes Johnson (published on 15th September on "New Europe" ) - here is the link:
http://www.Europe.eu/articles/77689.php

I think that even if referendum of NATO membership was called - the answer would be negative. I agree - given the complex circumstances - Serbia's best route lies in abstaining from military alliances.
And EU membership is a separate issue. I suppose polls can and will verify that.
As for new ideas for reaching the solution for Kosovo, look into excellent article by Wes Johnson (published on 15th September on "New Europe" ) - here is the link:
http://www.Europe.eu/articles/77689.php

Kostunica is correct in his assessment. He is acting as a Prime Minister needs to act when threatened by external sources. NATO is a cold war relic that needs to be landfilled or recycled into something productive. It bombed and occupied Kosovo on humanitarian excuses, and now wants the UN out so it has full control.

The Kosovo War lies shows how easy it is to blind the public with propaganda for alternative motives. The US now has an airbase in Europe that has no laws to abide by except the Chain of Command - no German rules, no Italian rules, no rules period.

The Kosovo War makes all humanitarian intervention unlikely. Darfur is probably a lie too. How can we be sure that Darfur is not some hoax being put forward so NATO can have an airbase in Africa? You can't. The first victim in an act of war is the truth. Rabouillet Peace talks were a lie and so were the numbers (100s of thousands) being printed and discussed in the press about missing and displaced persons.

Kostunica is correct that Serbia has been non-aligned. Kostunica is also correct in opposing membership to an aggressive military alliance that bombed, occupied, and now is severing (permanently partitioning) a sovereign nation. A sovereign nation he has sworn to serve.

Bravo Kostunica!!!

To (laki NY).

So you ignore what NATO did in serbia?
First exact figures of 3000 civilian victims were confirmed by NATO, you should go on google and type "Djakovica bombing", "residental area bombing"...

NATO did lightly damaged a serbia military factory in 99. But they destroyed all bridges, they shot on public transport rail roads, they damaged many hospitals, schools, destroyed many food processing factories, cloches factories, plastic factories, electricity stations, water pumps and supply, refineries, very dangerous fertilizer factories near residental areas, they bombed bussed and trains.... and many other unnecessary and civilian things that have nothing to do whit war in south serbia.

On military side they drooped 30 000 bombs in serbia and destroyed 14 serbian tanks, 20 APC and killed about 300 soldiers of 30 000 only in kosovo. What you think other bombs hit?

When NATO bombing started serbia forces and KLA guerrillas too both chased almost 800 000 people from kosovo...

to (Mark)

NATO bombing didnt even scratched a serbia military, but destroyed 50% of the economic structures.

And no, its clear that nobody is going to give up the part of his land that easily.

Serbian military convoys used Albanian refuges as human shields to deter attacks on their troop movement , since they know NATO will not attack civilian.

“Serbian forces compelled Kosovar Albanians to accompany Serbian military convoys and shield facilities throughout the province”
“Beginning in mid-April, Serbian forces used Kosovar Albanian men to shield military convoys from NATO airstrikes. Serbian forces reportedly removed young Kosovar Albanian men from refugee columns and forced them to form a buffer zone around Serbian convoys. Numerous Kosovar Albanians claimed to have witnessed and participated in this activity on the roads between Pec, Djakovica, and Kosovska Mitrovica.”
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Kosovo/Reports/document.html

UK Foreign Secretary Robin Cook accused the Yugoslav authorities of hypocrisy.

"How dare they now produce crocodile tears for people killed in the conflict for which they are responsible," he
said.

Until today you display no remorse for atrocities committed by Serbs and continuously manipulate with death of Albanian civilian for propaganda purposes.

I say the same to entire Serbian camp here how dare you produce crocodile tears for people killed in the conflict for which your government (Serbian), brothers and sisters are responsible.

to (Jorge Garcia)

Do you know that only 51% of serbia population want to enter EU? That number risk to fall dramaticaly if kosovo get independent.

Second my personal opinion is in those 49%, cause i want serbia to be indepandant state and not join those who we dont know either if they are our friedns or not. or maybe only wants to control one more country.

Serbia is not angry on NATO EU or USA, many people forgiven what happened in 99. But Serbia only need a good trade and diplomatic relations whit EU and NATO. Serbia should not join it.

Serbian secutiry forces are most powerful, equiped and trained then in any ex yu country. Serbia is still a regional military power.

The way of life in serbia is very good in this moment, it wasnt maybe 5 years ago. It should not change. Only thing we need for the moment is a bit more money and stable economy. Whits can me done whit good trading and diplomatic relations whit EU&NATO.
So its only thing Serbia needs right now.

How can you join a military force that bombed you to stone age few years ago? Serbia is not angry on EU&NATO, not even under the bombs, but very disappointed.

I was in belgrade at bombing time so i know what a talk about. Joining NATO would be a disgrace for those who are the victims of that war of domination that NATO leaded on Serbia. It wasn't a humanitarian bombing as explained in western TV's, cause they created a humanitarian disaster for both Serbians and Albanians.

Serbia would be a rich ehough and developed country today if that didn't happened.

Lazer,
your made up "hero" was nowhere to be found in the 15 texts I searched for. So sorry. You still didn't answer me why I can't find Kosovo or Kosova in the Albanina language or Mitrovica ... I can go on and on. Show me where there is Kosovo / Kosova in Albanian. And I dont doubt your people being around that area in 1389 but judging by your first being Christians as Catholics and then converting Islam, well that tells me everything. When the German war machine ran through the balkans you couldn't stand up and fight for freedom you as a state fought with the Nazi's. Again maybe you had some individuals who loved freedom and fought against the Germans, but fact is as a state you were pro Nazi. So if you were fighting in 1389 you were fighting with Islam and what at that time stood against freedom, invation, oppression, injustice. Oh that kind of sounds like what the 200000 Serbs that live as refugees now in Serbia lived through today. And what countless of other Serbs lived through throughout this past century, 1981 student riots, i can go on and on. Show me where there is Kosovo Kosova in Albanian language.

Ovich please talk only on behalf of the Serbs. Albanians do not need an anti-NATO person as our mouthpiece.

to (laki NY)

Tell me one thing. How can NATO jet to detect if there are soldiers or civilians if he see such "human shield"?They bombed a refugee column near Djakovica and killed about 150 civilians are wounded good knows how much others.
The pilot asked 3 times the confirmation of the order.
"What sould i bomb? the traktors?!"
As he witnessed.

From 15000ft that NATO jets were missing to hit the big buildings sometimes.

Ovich, you say Serbia was bombed to the stone age. I am not saying that many civilian or "dual use" targets were not bombed or that many innocent people did not perish, or that very important infrastructure was not lost, but I find your comment completely exaggerated and hysterical considering the damage that Cambodia, Laos, the Netherlands, Germany, Japan and other countries (even Yugoslavia) suffered from truly ruthless bombardment. These countries truly were bombed to the stone age.

Nevertheless, in Europe, Germany learned how to make peace with those countries which had wrecked it flat. It joined NATO roughly five years after NATO's founding and today is a core member of the alliance. It created the basis of a great multinational entity, later to be known as the EU, in conjunction with its historic rival and bitter enemies. I am sorry to say, but that you cannot even consider a form of reconciliation like that of the Germans, almost belittles your character.

As far as your comments concerning Serbian support for the EU, I tend to see much different results in polls. The ones I have seen seem to indicate that over 60% is pro EU, but that a majority is skeptical about NATO. Those opposing EU entry are often those who feel that it will be obtained at the cost of losing Kosovo, which in my opinion, is the basis for a raw deal. If the Kosovo issue were delinked from EU entry, I would expect EU support to be much much higher.

For those who advocate an Austria, Norway or Switzerland solution, I just don t believe Serbia can compare with these countries strategically, economically, politically or militarily.

Ovich, you paint a rosy picture in Serbia. Maybe you are well off, but unemployment tops 20% (and these are official estimates), and Serbia, despite its growth is a ways from catching up to its neighbors, let alone Greece or Slovenia. I hate to break it to you, but as much as Serbia is advancing, it has a long way to go, and there is no reason to keep things from going faster than they already are. Anti-EU or anti-NATO sentiment only delays achieving real prosperity.

Ovich, I apologize for my comment against your character. It was actually not directed at you, especially given your recognition that many Serbs have forgiven NATO for any past mistakes. I will direct such comment only at those who dwell on the past to the point where they cannot overcome it. Ovich, I actually thank you for keeping the discussion alive and by reintroducing the EU factor.All the best.

To Jorge Garcia

Yes Serbian unemployment rate is 20%. But 2 years ago it was 40%.
4 years ago average salary in serbia was less then 200eu, today its 350eu. Not alot but higher then in Bulragy and Rumania who are EU members and who had no 10 years of isolation and general industrial destruction. I dont even wanna talk about albania.

We were suposed to be the poorest county in europe
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/427670.stm

I see that many people dont even see what happened in serbia in 99. They dont even know what was the biggest allied air campaign after ww2. And against one other ex allied country.

Ovich, there you go, exaggerating all over again. 40% unemployment last year in Serbia--give me a break. Maybe, but you know that was not an official estimate, so do not compare apples and oranges--I was using official figures. Your wage comparison is also flawed.

One thing that is also very troubling is how most people in the Balkans still seem to imagine Albania today as if it were in the sixties. In case you have not been there, it's actually up and bustling, and I would not be surprised if it still topped Serbia economically on many levels. Why don't you take a trip there one day so you can confirm to the rest? As far as Serbia topping Romania and Bulgaria, maybe so if you compare Belgrade to a town, but I doubt statistics (if used consistently) would support your claims. If you want to think, like Adam and Eve did, that you are living in paradise, well, the grass is still much greener on the other side, and it will stay so for a few more years.

I hate to break it to you, but the dramatic points you made in this section seem to epitomize the cliché view of Serbia by the West: a self-portrayal as the ultimate victim, becoming the ultimate hero and over-achiever. When exaggerated, this self-characterization alienates Serbia from the West. Instead of earning the recognition for the incredible suffering, courage and achievements of the Serb people, your hyperbole causes those outside Serbia to question it, suspecting cynicism and arrogance. But then again, you do not seem to care about Western support since you think it'll be a piece of cake for Serbia to do it alone. You're wrong.

I sent my comment - with a link to the article Kosovo: “Thinking Outside Of The Box" bt Wes Johnson, - but as there is something wrong with a link - here is the link again:
http://www.neurope.eu/articles/77689.php
Cheers.

To: Rocky

You can not find anywhere name Kosovo becasue the real name of Kosovo is Dardania. Read here carefully and you will understand the history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardania_%28Europe%29

to (Jorge Garcia)

You try to say that i lie?
No cause i refer only to the numbers that i find around.

UMNIK numbers says this:
http://www.unmikonline.org/pub/focuskos/sept05/focuskeco9.htm

I know better then you whats going on in serbia, i dont know about albania.

Adrian,
that is so funny then why don't your people refer to it as that, every Albanian calls it either Kosova or Kosove. Come on man, save it. What about Mitrovica, and a thousand other names all across Kosovo that just now the Albanians are changing, if it was Albanian then it wouldnt be called Kosovo or Kosova.

Ovich, I never said you lied. I said that you have a tendency of comparing apples and oranges, and that this leads to exaggeration which discredits your arguments and objectivity.

I value objectivity and temperance much than knowledge from those in the Balkans, but it's still great to know that you think you are knowledgeable . . . Let's move on to the next round. . . .