Ahilleas,
Interensting point, but considering how hard it is to get a Schengen visa with a bosnian passport I think that the serbs in RS will be fully satisfied with a Serbian one! After all, if having a choise I belive that serbs in BIH or RS would chose a serbian identity any day over an imposed Bosnian one..
I'm desperatley curious from what book (website?) Konstantin Gregovic learnt the history of WW I...
And Milan, before Vojvodina became part of Yugoslavia it had roughly equal Hungarian, Serb and German populations. The Germans were expelled after WW II killing approx. 50.000 (mostly civilians) in the process as well as around 40.000 Hungarians. The share of Hungarians in the Vojvodina in the current population did not rise from 5% to the current 15% but in fact dropped from over 30% in 1910 (the last A-H census year) to under 15% in 2002. The reasons for this decline are multiple: assimilation and indentification as "Yugoslav" a non-existent nation, usually chosen by children of ethnic or mixed parents to have better carreer prospects, emigration with peaks right after WW I and WW II and from the 1990's (to avoid to be conscripted in Milosevic's insane wars) untill today, and of course the slaughtering of 40.000 Hungarians by Tito's "liberating" partizans. Well as they say one's freedom fighter is another one's terrorist, we can als say one's liberator is another one's oppressor... BTW most other original ethnic communities have sharply declined over the last 80 years, except such non-original ethnicities as Roma, Albanians, Macedonians and Montenegrins due to high birth rates and/or immigration . It's simple math. If you can bring down the number of ethnic groups from a combined 70% to 30%, your own share will accordingly rise from 30% to 70%.
Well this has nothing to do with it! Vojvodina sadly became a part of YU Kingdom after WWI. (Josip, 14. September 2007 15:08)
Sadly, the Austro-Hungarian Empire invaded Serbia in WWI.
Sadly, the Austro-Hungarian Empire led by General Poitorek was driving back three times to the gates of Vienna by little Serbia.
Sadly, Austro-Hungarian Empire needed the help of the Bulgarians and Germans to subdue the Serbian Army.
Sadly, over 100,000 Serbs chose to die retreating through Albania and the island of Kerkira leaving Serbia and joining the Saloniki front to fight another day.
Sadly, in WWII Admiral Horthy of Hungary chose to ally himself again with Germany and Adolf Hiter.
Sadly, Horthy committed attrocities against the citizens of Vojvodina when Hungary gained control of the region after Hitler invaded Yugoslavia.
There is nothing sad about Vojvodina, only the Hungarian nationalists who think it belongs to them.
I don't know what Josip is talking about. Sadly? Sadly the austro-hungarians, namely hungarians there, made up about 5% of population and ran that place. SADLY, after Hungary turned communist, Yugoslavia allowed the Hungarians to move to Serbia.
As for Nikshala, when has Kosovo ever been a country? You can't view something as your country if it were never a country. Makes no sense.
It seems there is no way that we can talk about Vojvodina without mentioning Kosovo. Well this has nothing to do with it! Vojvodina sadly became a part of YU Kingdom after WWI. That was 88 years ago. The dual citizenship is not solution for the ALL Vojvodina people. We need passports of Vojvodina! Not just for Hungarians but everybody who was born or lives in Vojvodina for let’s say last five years. Passport of Vojvodina would not need a Hungarian visa, that’s for sure!
nikshala: "K. Albanians are not intereted in citizenship of Albania, since majority have never even been there. And almost all were born in Kosovo including their predecesors."
The same is probably true for many of the Hungarians in Vojvodina.
In your opinion what do the Albanians of Macedonia see as their country?
ahmet and nikshala, Serbia can offer Kosovo Albanians the passports and more but on the other hand Kosovo Albanians have nothing to offer as they own nothing. One cannot trade if he/she has nothing to trade with.
K. Albanians are not intereted in citizenship of Albania, since majority have never even been there. And almost all were born in Kosovo including their predecesors.
This should be a fair solution for Kosovo albanians aswell.
Kosovo stays in Serbia with big autonomy, meaning it will be run be the people that lives there, not from Belgrade. All albanians gets REAL ALBANIAN citizenship since thats what they really want anyway. That way the albanians can choose if they want to travel on Albanian or Serbian passports drive on albanian or serbian drivers licenses etc..
The euro could stay as currency because in 10 years it will probably be used in other serbia aswell.
What does you albanians here think about this?
Well the other option is ofcourse fully integration in Serbia again, just like in the good old TITO times before 1974 ;-)
He thinks the same principle should be applied in other regional states. "And somehow, borders wouldn't be so important . People would be allowed to travel from one side to the other. The same way, a significant and inclusive political culture could be adopted," said the President.
I agree fully and the same would apply to K-Serbs. They can have Kosovar citizenship as well as serbian.
He thinks the same principle should be applied in other regional states. "And somehow, borders wouldn't be so important . People would be allowed to travel from one side to the other. The same way, a significant and inclusive political culture could be adopted," said the President.
I agree fully and the same would apply to K-Serbs. They can have Kosovar citizenship as well as serbian.
ahmet and nikshala, Serbia can offer Kosovo Albanians the passports and more but on the other hand Kosovo Albanians have nothing to offer as they own nothing. One cannot trade if he/she has nothing to trade with.
K. Albanians are not intereted in citizenship of Albania, since majority have never even been there. And almost all were born in Kosovo including their predecesors.
This should be a fair solution for Kosovo albanians aswell.
Kosovo stays in Serbia with big autonomy, meaning it will be run be the people that lives there, not from Belgrade. All albanians gets REAL ALBANIAN citizenship since thats what they really want anyway. That way the albanians can choose if they want to travel on Albanian or Serbian passports drive on albanian or serbian drivers licenses etc..
The euro could stay as currency because in 10 years it will probably be used in other serbia aswell.
What does you albanians here think about this?
Well the other option is ofcourse fully integration in Serbia again, just like in the good old TITO times before 1974 ;-)
nikshala: "K. Albanians are not intereted in citizenship of Albania, since majority have never even been there. And almost all were born in Kosovo including their predecesors."
The same is probably true for many of the Hungarians in Vojvodina.
In your opinion what do the Albanians of Macedonia see as their country?
It seems there is no way that we can talk about Vojvodina without mentioning Kosovo. Well this has nothing to do with it! Vojvodina sadly became a part of YU Kingdom after WWI. That was 88 years ago. The dual citizenship is not solution for the ALL Vojvodina people. We need passports of Vojvodina! Not just for Hungarians but everybody who was born or lives in Vojvodina for let’s say last five years. Passport of Vojvodina would not need a Hungarian visa, that’s for sure!
I don't know what Josip is talking about. Sadly? Sadly the austro-hungarians, namely hungarians there, made up about 5% of population and ran that place. SADLY, after Hungary turned communist, Yugoslavia allowed the Hungarians to move to Serbia.
As for Nikshala, when has Kosovo ever been a country? You can't view something as your country if it were never a country. Makes no sense.
I'm desperatley curious from what book (website?) Konstantin Gregovic learnt the history of WW I...
And Milan, before Vojvodina became part of Yugoslavia it had roughly equal Hungarian, Serb and German populations. The Germans were expelled after WW II killing approx. 50.000 (mostly civilians) in the process as well as around 40.000 Hungarians. The share of Hungarians in the Vojvodina in the current population did not rise from 5% to the current 15% but in fact dropped from over 30% in 1910 (the last A-H census year) to under 15% in 2002. The reasons for this decline are multiple: assimilation and indentification as "Yugoslav" a non-existent nation, usually chosen by children of ethnic or mixed parents to have better carreer prospects, emigration with peaks right after WW I and WW II and from the 1990's (to avoid to be conscripted in Milosevic's insane wars) untill today, and of course the slaughtering of 40.000 Hungarians by Tito's "liberating" partizans. Well as they say one's freedom fighter is another one's terrorist, we can als say one's liberator is another one's oppressor... BTW most other original ethnic communities have sharply declined over the last 80 years, except such non-original ethnicities as Roma, Albanians, Macedonians and Montenegrins due to high birth rates and/or immigration . It's simple math. If you can bring down the number of ethnic groups from a combined 70% to 30%, your own share will accordingly rise from 30% to 70%.
Ahilleas,
Interensting point, but considering how hard it is to get a Schengen visa with a bosnian passport I think that the serbs in RS will be fully satisfied with a Serbian one! After all, if having a choise I belive that serbs in BIH or RS would chose a serbian identity any day over an imposed Bosnian one..
Well this has nothing to do with it! Vojvodina sadly became a part of YU Kingdom after WWI. (Josip, 14. September 2007 15:08)
Sadly, the Austro-Hungarian Empire invaded Serbia in WWI.
Sadly, the Austro-Hungarian Empire led by General Poitorek was driving back three times to the gates of Vienna by little Serbia.
Sadly, Austro-Hungarian Empire needed the help of the Bulgarians and Germans to subdue the Serbian Army.
Sadly, over 100,000 Serbs chose to die retreating through Albania and the island of Kerkira leaving Serbia and joining the Saloniki front to fight another day.
Sadly, in WWII Admiral Horthy of Hungary chose to ally himself again with Germany and Adolf Hiter.
Sadly, Horthy committed attrocities against the citizens of Vojvodina when Hungary gained control of the region after Hitler invaded Yugoslavia.
There is nothing sad about Vojvodina, only the Hungarian nationalists who think it belongs to them.
This should be a fair solution for Kosovo albanians aswell.
Kosovo stays in Serbia with big autonomy, meaning it will be run be the people that lives there, not from Belgrade. All albanians gets REAL ALBANIAN citizenship since thats what they really want anyway. That way the albanians can choose if they want to travel on Albanian or Serbian passports drive on albanian or serbian drivers licenses etc..
The euro could stay as currency because in 10 years it will probably be used in other serbia aswell.
What does you albanians here think about this?
Well the other option is ofcourse fully integration in Serbia again, just like in the good old TITO times before 1974 ;-)
It seems there is no way that we can talk about Vojvodina without mentioning Kosovo. Well this has nothing to do with it! Vojvodina sadly became a part of YU Kingdom after WWI. That was 88 years ago. The dual citizenship is not solution for the ALL Vojvodina people. We need passports of Vojvodina! Not just for Hungarians but everybody who was born or lives in Vojvodina for let’s say last five years. Passport of Vojvodina would not need a Hungarian visa, that’s for sure!
He thinks the same principle should be applied in other regional states. "And somehow, borders wouldn't be so important . People would be allowed to travel from one side to the other. The same way, a significant and inclusive political culture could be adopted," said the President.
I agree fully and the same would apply to K-Serbs. They can have Kosovar citizenship as well as serbian.
K. Albanians are not intereted in citizenship of Albania, since majority have never even been there. And almost all were born in Kosovo including their predecesors.
I'm desperatley curious from what book (website?) Konstantin Gregovic learnt the history of WW I...
And Milan, before Vojvodina became part of Yugoslavia it had roughly equal Hungarian, Serb and German populations. The Germans were expelled after WW II killing approx. 50.000 (mostly civilians) in the process as well as around 40.000 Hungarians. The share of Hungarians in the Vojvodina in the current population did not rise from 5% to the current 15% but in fact dropped from over 30% in 1910 (the last A-H census year) to under 15% in 2002. The reasons for this decline are multiple: assimilation and indentification as "Yugoslav" a non-existent nation, usually chosen by children of ethnic or mixed parents to have better carreer prospects, emigration with peaks right after WW I and WW II and from the 1990's (to avoid to be conscripted in Milosevic's insane wars) untill today, and of course the slaughtering of 40.000 Hungarians by Tito's "liberating" partizans. Well as they say one's freedom fighter is another one's terrorist, we can als say one's liberator is another one's oppressor... BTW most other original ethnic communities have sharply declined over the last 80 years, except such non-original ethnicities as Roma, Albanians, Macedonians and Montenegrins due to high birth rates and/or immigration . It's simple math. If you can bring down the number of ethnic groups from a combined 70% to 30%, your own share will accordingly rise from 30% to 70%.
ahmet and nikshala, Serbia can offer Kosovo Albanians the passports and more but on the other hand Kosovo Albanians have nothing to offer as they own nothing. One cannot trade if he/she has nothing to trade with.
nikshala: "K. Albanians are not intereted in citizenship of Albania, since majority have never even been there. And almost all were born in Kosovo including their predecesors."
The same is probably true for many of the Hungarians in Vojvodina.
In your opinion what do the Albanians of Macedonia see as their country?
I don't know what Josip is talking about. Sadly? Sadly the austro-hungarians, namely hungarians there, made up about 5% of population and ran that place. SADLY, after Hungary turned communist, Yugoslavia allowed the Hungarians to move to Serbia.
As for Nikshala, when has Kosovo ever been a country? You can't view something as your country if it were never a country. Makes no sense.
Well this has nothing to do with it! Vojvodina sadly became a part of YU Kingdom after WWI. (Josip, 14. September 2007 15:08)
Sadly, the Austro-Hungarian Empire invaded Serbia in WWI.
Sadly, the Austro-Hungarian Empire led by General Poitorek was driving back three times to the gates of Vienna by little Serbia.
Sadly, Austro-Hungarian Empire needed the help of the Bulgarians and Germans to subdue the Serbian Army.
Sadly, over 100,000 Serbs chose to die retreating through Albania and the island of Kerkira leaving Serbia and joining the Saloniki front to fight another day.
Sadly, in WWII Admiral Horthy of Hungary chose to ally himself again with Germany and Adolf Hiter.
Sadly, Horthy committed attrocities against the citizens of Vojvodina when Hungary gained control of the region after Hitler invaded Yugoslavia.
There is nothing sad about Vojvodina, only the Hungarian nationalists who think it belongs to them.
Ahilleas,
Interensting point, but considering how hard it is to get a Schengen visa with a bosnian passport I think that the serbs in RS will be fully satisfied with a Serbian one! After all, if having a choise I belive that serbs in BIH or RS would chose a serbian identity any day over an imposed Bosnian one..
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