"EU has common stance on Kosovo"

So now we find that the Germans have doubts & lets be honest about this not even the UK or France have stated they would do anything against the UN such as illegally recognise an illegal recognition by the PISG ethnic-Albanian parliment in Serbia's province which UNMIK has an immediate obligation to nullify!

thus the so called "International Community" is comprised of just the US willing to illegally recognise an illegal entity - way to go US upholding anarchy and ripping up international norms and laws!

It is time that everyone realised that only a "negotiated compromise" will be the result of these talks even if they go beyond the report submission to update General secretary Ban Ki-moon!

Thus come the 11th December just when Franch and Germans and other Europeans are turning up their gas heaters we will see;
No Independence
No Illegal Declaration
No Illegal Recognition
No violence - NATO will act.

Hopefully there will be a "negotiated compromise" but lets be positive and ensure the jaw-jaw continues until a "negotaited compromise" is found and the sooner the better for all of Serbia's citizens.

Miri,

where and when has any EU nation stated on the record that they would undermine the UN by illegally recognising an illegal declaration?

Only the US have been dumb enough to go on the record this was week. However, even that does not guarantee they will given they assume that the EU will blindly follow. However, the EU say they will remain united what ever that means and if 7 countries (Spain, Greece, Slovakia, Romania Cyprus, Hungary, and now Bulgaria) have said that they definitivly wont go out of the UN don't you realise their voice is getting louder! Only a solution that is acceptable to the UN is acceptable in the EU - i.e. something that would pass i.e. not even Supervised Independence!

Even Germany now is wobbling - looks like they at least learnt from their haste in the early 90's. Surely you can see that only a "negotiated compromise" is the way ahead?

Apologies for this rather long post, which I'm sure will send several into the new independent state of wrath!

Mike: "Do it legally, or don't do it at all. Pretty simple!"

I agree 100% with this. If it goes through the proper channels, then fine if Kosovo becomes independent. But Serbia does need to be on board with any agreement.

Too many people speak of Russia's unwillingness to allow a European nation to be stripped of sovereign territory as though it is an attempt to sabotage. It is an attempt to uphold boundaries and international legal structures (which is within their own interest) and this is to the benefit of everyone.

Besides which, the US and UK are two countries which have used their right to veto in the SC far more frequently than Russia.

To Miri - You can't possibly believe that the EU will favour a bid for independence which is on extremely dangerous grounds in terms of security and precedents, as being of greater importance than EU unity.

The US is just looking for a quick fix and a few of the European nations are following behind them in the hope that they may pull it off. France would switch track and possibly even the UK now there is no longer Blair at the helm, if the rest of the EU favour other channels.

I'm not saying they would go against the US, but they could certainly try and persuade the Bush administration to look at other options and approaches.

It is really dangerous to try and change European boundaries in this gung-ho fashion, let alone in the Balkans.

Nikshala: "My generation has spent most of our lives waiting for a status solution. Serbia has had 19 years to come up with the satisfactory and acceptable proposals, but they failed miserably."

Let's call this what it is. You have been seeking independence from your sovereign state for 19 years. That is not the same as 'waiting for status solution'.

In 1999 Robin Cook (who was a staunch supporter of Bill and Blair's great adventure of 1999) delivered a report to the UK parliament that there had been an equal amount of killings on both the Serbian and KLA 'sides'. I am highlighting 'sides because it is hardly an equal assessment when a state is fighting an attempt at separatism.

If this had happened in the US, there would have been zero tolerance for the killing of any state policemen. They were regularly being murdered in Kosovo and often returned with the initials 'UCK' (KLA) carved in their bodies. This is well documented.

I'm not saying that Albanians weren't mistreated. I am sure that they were arrested and treated very harshly, even murdered, and were sometimes quite innocent. But as I said before, no state would stand idle while a violent attempt at separatism was taking place and police were being murdered.

To Iowe: I do have the same impression as you that the EU may not be able to 'organise a piss up in a brewery' at the moment.

This is a defining period in European history, and all states are aware that they have to work together to move forward. They are hardly going to mark this by slicing off territory from a fellow European state.

Everyone knows that Serbia is very important to Europe for all sorts of reasons, far more than appeasing one ethnic group.

New states should not be formed on ethnic grounds by a body such as the EU which stipulates that xenophobia and bigotry is ILLEGAL. Europe is about mixing people and free movement and trade; not creating a pure Albanian statelet and risking the next land grab starting in Macedonia.

Finally, why should the EU feel content at the US having a whacking great military base in the centre of Europe and basic control over an indebted government?!

"to keep the EU united in spite of the different views within the bloc," Ruprecht Polenz"

Yep, that is very important, therefor EU will decide NOT to recognize Kosovo independent. Unity is after all more important to EU than that a few of the bigger EU states gets it will in being a lap dog in foreign policy to the US.

In the next few years there will be no big rewards to the countries that strictly follow the US policy because it will be a new governement in Washington. This could be translated to= nor more lucrative Halliburton contracts in reward for being a follower of US foreign policy

Srboslav

Think about this. Apart from Spain all the countries against independence (Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Cyrpus) are one of the poorest, smallest and least powerful in the EU, and countries that have only joined recently.

On the other side, the countries that are ready to recognize Kosovo, are the biggest, most powerful.

Who do you think its going to win? Where would you bet your money: on Greece and Slovakia, or France and Great Britain??

The key is Germany who is still undecided. But anybody could tell you that Germany is not going to go against its biggest allies, and go on the side of Russia, Greece, Romania etc etc...

And as far as a change in regime in USA: we albaninas do hope that Democrats win. You might have forgoten this, but it was the democrats that bombed Serbia, and it is the demorcats who are the biggest supporters of Kosovo independence. if there is one thing that all presidential candidates in US and Republicans and Democrats agree, is Kosovo's independence.

And just what, pray tell, is this common stance? Certainly not unilateral recognition! If there is to be a united EU, it must recognize Kosovo's independence if, and only if, it is done through legal channels of international law. The Spains, Greeces, Romanias and Slovakias of the EU bloc will not be the ones destroying EU unity. Rather it will be the Great Britains and the Frances, if they recognize a unilateral declaration.

Do it legally, or don't do it at all. Pretty simple!

Like Miri said, around 20 EU countries are ready to recognize Kosovo.

Apart from Spain, all other EU countries that oppose unilateral indepednence (greece, Slovakia, Romania, Cyprus) are one of the weakest, poorest, newest members of EU.

Whereas the countries that will recgonize Kosovo, are the biggest and most powerful.

Srboslav if you had to bet your money on who would win, would you bet on France and UK, or Romania and Greece??

Its quantity and quality in the side of independence.

Germany is the key, since they are still undecided. but in the end they will not go against all thier allies (USA, UK, France, Italy, Ntherlands, Scandinavian coutnries ..... ), to be on the side of Russia and Greece.

Mike, K. Albanians would love more than anyone if independence was done with UN resolution and not unilateraly, but with Russia's and Serbia's destructive attitude its impossible to get a resolution in the near future. But the status quo cannot go on anymore, it has already been over 8 years since 1999, and 19 years since Milosevic came to power. My generation has spent most of our lives waiting for a status solution. Serbia has had 19 years to come up with the satisfactory and acceptable proposals, but they failed miserably.

One way or another, status of Kosovo has to be settled now.

Unity will be achieved after all EU states recognize Kosovo independence. The majority of EU is pro-independence. It's just simple math that is easier to convince few members.
The members that have expressed concerns over unilateral independence( they have never said that will refuse it) are 4-5 out of 27 of them.

Remain united?
Strange when all other countries are saying no without a resolution. So say what you want all that will end up in the end will be a bitterly divided EU and you looking stupid.

Why would Spain, Greece want to pay for your expensive ideas and risk their soldiers for things they not only dont believe in but oppose.

Miri,

you agree that they would accept the UN route but unless of course a new reolution replaces 1244 then by implication they accept that as the status - i.e. continued Serbian sovereignity - that is the final and conclusive status. Think about it! You might not respect international law but the EU27 do!

Lets not forget they all 27 have stated that they will uphold the UN process - only the US who are not part of the EU have been so reckless to suggest they would ignore the UNSC resolution that they formulated and signed. I can't see how else you can perceive this other then tacit acceptance that continued Serbian Sovereignity is the final outcome if the talks come up with no other alternative - unless you can direct us to specific publication by a EU state stating they would act outside the UN.

"According to the United Nations and the UN Security Council resolution which established the current Kosovo protectorate status, Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia's national territory.

" - The integrity of the UN Security Council's role in the system of international law is at stake here," says a Western diplomat in New York Sunday, speaking off the record. The diplomat, who holds the rank of Ambassador, also explained that it will take a new Security Council resolution before any change in Kosovo's status can be considered legally binding. This is because the current government structures in Kosovo, unlike those currently in Transdniestria, were established under a UN Security Council mandate.

I truly hope a win-win "negotiated compromise" is found but what is clear since July is that Serbia's Soverignity is now only questioned by the US and huge gulf is opening up between the US & "European" viewpoint which respects the UN resolution, norms and laws.

Nikshala
Srboslav if you had to bet your money on who would win, would you bet on France and UK, or Romania and Greece??

There are a lot more then just Romania and Greece. Its like a domino effect. If Greece, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Austria, Cyprus, Sweden and several others dont agree to recognise you, no one will. Its all about who will pick up the tab, all about the UN, all about precedent. Why do you think anyone is willing to go so far for you? They will not.

Germany distanced itself ASAP. They know where it will lead.

As for the winners.... RUSSIA and Serbia.

CCCC

What is this guy talking about? There is absolutely no unity in Europe on the Kosovo issue. Europe is still totally split on this issue. Unless he means that Europe will only do things through the UN, and is united on this issue? This is very unclear.

miri,

Don't know where you are from but if you are from Kosovo you are a SERBIAN citizen. You may not like that but Kosovo is part of Serbia.

Like there are Germans living in East-Begium. Austrians in North Italy.

Why not reconcile yourself with being part of Serbia?

"EU has common stance on Kosovo"

All EU member states share the same position on Kosovo, French ambassador to Serbia, Jean-Francois Terral, told B92 on Monday.

While France is ready to join Britain and the United States in recognizing Kosovo's sovereignty, Germany has carefully avoided spelling out its position in the hope of brokering a compromise.

Reminding that the U.S. will support independence in that case, the daily said that if EU countries, especially Great Britain, take the side of the Kosovo Albanians as well, a spit will be seen within the EU regarding this central issue.

Other countries of the EU, such as Spain, Hungary and Greece, fear that more violence among minority communities throughout Europe will occur if independence in Kosovo is recognized. "

This article's title trumpeting a so-called common EU stance is full of holes as can be seen from the selected paragraphs after that.

Anyway it is such a joke to talk about commonality when the EU can't even agree on their basic constitutional reform! If they can be united on their constitution then I will believe this claim about Kosovo!

To Pricip:

"where and when has any EU nation stated on the record that they would undermine the UN by illegally recognising an illegal declaration?"

Every EU country, even those mentioned in your comment has iterated that Ahtisaari plan is a well balanced plan and should serve as the basis of every negotiation. It's only natural that EU would prefer such plan to be accepted at UNSC. In other words the desire expressed by EU members to have Ahtisaari plan endorsed in UN is directed to Russia and only Russia in a vague hope that Russia will change it's stance. Unfortunately this will not be the case and very soon EU will be faced with 3 main alternatives that are: independence, serbian offered autonomy and status quo. ( if you think of another please speak up) My question to you is:

"where and when has any EU nation stated on the record that they would accept status quo or Serbian offered autonomy as a solution to Kosovo"

Logically, the inability to answer this question, leads one as myself to believe that EU countries support independence.

Kate

As far as KLA is concerend, it only appeared on the scene after Milosevic brutal regime for few years. And most K.Albanisns never even heard of it until 1998. 99% of albanians supported Rugova and peaceful means, until very late in 1998, when massacers where happening all areound them, and that was too much. And yes, after Milsoevic came to power most people wanted independence, but would have settled for high autonomy.

So it was serbian nationalism and the beginning of the Milosevic regime, that caused all this (albanian demand for independence).

What you are saying is that, if a husband was beating and abusing his wife for years, and then she had enough and started to fight back, - that would give him the right to beat her sensless and try to kill her because she 'attacked' him.

Miri,

on the contrary I believe the EU will unite behind a European solution - one that allows it to take on the EUMIK mantle but respects continued Serbian Soverignity - something the Serbian Government will be able to accept within the right boundaries and protections. There are still 3 months worth of talks and the EU unity will be formed by the lowest common denominator and that for the hardcore seccesionists ethnic-Albanians & the ruling mafiocracy might not be acceptable but what are they going to do - spoil the opportunity for the hundreds of thousands of Serbian Albanians who realise the the advantages of being part of the Serbian state and clamour to get their passports?

EU is about pulling down walls and borders not creating artifical ones! I am actually looking forward to the EU unity coming about so that everyone can be steered away from the warmongering folly of the US!

Kate - good post and I very much doubt PM Brown is willing to be seen as a poodle of the US like Bliar before him. In fact I have spoken with someone in a close circle to him reiterating the need for distance from the US. Even Miliband & Kouchners comments are openly ambiguous - they know the US is weak and economically bankrupt. Thankfully the BRIC (Brazil,Russia, India & China) nations are keeping the world economy going for now !

miri,
This is a public forum. That you don’t like or agree with responses to your often caustic comments does not give you the authority to deny anyone's response.

"Serb- Albanians is a very insulting phrase. Albanians don't want to have anything to do with a nation that shelters war criminals."

if you're an albanian born in kosovo, you are a serbian with an albanian ethnicity... if you don't believe us just check your birth certificate... sheltering war criminals... at least we don't have them running the govn't... agim ceku "was the officer responsible for shelling the Serbian refugee columns and for targeting the UN-declared "safe" city of Knin during the Croatian offensive known as Operation Storm. Some 500 innocent civilians perished in those merciless barrages, and senior Canadian officers who witnessed the slaughter demanded that Ceku be indicted. O He was decorated nine times by Croatia for his service and rose to the rank of brigadier-general." Scott Taylor Canadian Esprit de Corps. "

good point miri!

To Nikshala. You say that Serbian had 19 years to come up with an acceptable solution. That's hard to do when everything they propose is immediately rejected by the Albanians. Nothing but total independence is acceptable to the Albanians, so how can anyone come up with a solution? Even God would have trouble finding a solution that Albanians would accept.

to be or not to be,that is the question for europe!
To be means to take decisions,even unpleasant and difficult ones...
Not to be is the wait and see politics that we still have because europe has not chosen to be or not to be...

The wait and see politic is not a politic,consequences of this politic is precisely the situation we have today in ex yougo and kosovo kosovo.
If europe had acted during milosheviq area,or just after 1999 ,the risks for the europe policy would not have been that much high and it would have been much more easier for belgrade to argue for the loss of kosovo . Now things have gone too far for every player / albanians will never accept less than independance,after 8 year of "freedom"!russian see it as a red line and america will certainly not accept to have it's foreign policy dictated by russia...Serbia is hoping by these delays that they will gain again kosovo and by so doing is just having albanians more and more proindependance !

Waiting more will only create more hate and confrontation and add the risk of destabilisation around!

To Princip:

The problem with your logic is that you are holding the hope for the Europe to remain disunited, which is precisely what EU is fighting against. Even if EU fails in the attempt to remain united it will still work in favor of Kosovo Independence.

Three scenarios are possible.
1. Europe rejects unanimously independence
2. Europe accepts unanimously independence (even if it's not endorsed in UNSC)
3. Europe remains divided and recognition of independence will be decided by each individual nation.

I don't know what makes you think that the first scenario is most probable than the last two. To my belief the last one is most probable, so to say the least, even if Europe is not united the odds are in favor of Kosovo since most of EU countries will recognize Kosovo individually. This is because even those countries that you mention, in principle agree that Ahtisaari plan is the best plan. They only are emphasizing that it will be better that this plan is accepted by UNSC.

For some reason you believe in the first scenario, but I fail to see how after 8 years and billions of euros, human waste, war and so on, Europe decides to go back to square one, risking all it has achieved so far just to please Serbia and Russia.

There is absolutely no hope that Europe will be united on this issue. Take Spain for example. Eta, emboldened by the KLA in Kosovo have resumed their offensive in Spain and have declared that they will accept nothing less than independence. Will Spain grant this independence? I don't think so and how could they if they recognised Kosovo??

To PB: "Take Spain for example. Eta, emboldened by the KLA in Kosovo have resumed their offensive in Spain and have declared that they will accept nothing less than independence. Will Spain grant this independence?"


Independence from who? From Europe? What are you talking about? Unless ETA wants to go to the moon. If Serbia had behaved differently it would have been in EU by now and there would have been no need for Kosovo Independence.

Princip, what you are suggesting is that Serbia holds Kosovo, but Europe should police it on behalf of Serbia. This is precisely what Europe wants to wash its hands off mister. Europe doesn't want its troop committed forever in Kosovo just because this will suit Serbia.


On another note, your language is very offending. Calling albanians (wherever they are, in Kosovo or elsewhere) Serb- Albanians is a very insulting phrase. Albanians don't want to have anything to do with a nation that shelters war criminals. To make you understand easier what I mean I will put it in a personal perspective. You and I don't share anything in common. If you are for a dialog and exchange of facts then that's fine, otherwise don't bother to respond to my comments and I will not respond to yours.
As to someone who said this is the same as calling someone American-Albanian, I would say that I am one of them and I am proud to be.

funcakes... you are an interesting fellow... =)

the US are on their way downhill...and you are overrating them in a manner that I am really amused to read it...

they are having severe problems in Iraq, can´t make much more than living in containers in Kabul, not having control about the territories outside the afghan capital... and you wanna tell us that they are ruling the world and the UN and EU are helpless...???

Miri - I'll enlighten your ignorance. The Basque region of Spain, according to Eta, want to b independent of Spain. Likewise, Kosovo wants to be independent of Serbia. Did i say anything about being independent of Europe??

Spain CANNOT recognise Kosovo as it would have no excuse for NOT granting the Basque region of Spain independence if they asked for it.

We can all go into Europe - that isn't an issue.

Nikshala: "What you are saying is that, if a husband was beating and abusing his wife for years, and then she had enough and started to fight back, - that would give him the right to beat her sensless and try to kill her because she 'attacked' him."

You cannot compare the situation between an independence seeking province within a state; and a woman's right to fight back against an abusive husband/ partner.

The province is part of the state; wives and partners are not legally 'owned' by their husbands.

But there is one common factor: the right of the individual. This would rightly be upheld in any modern legal system in the world.

Sorry for the repeat statements / post, I thought my original post was not going to be published by B92

This (unity of europe on vote on any subject) is a impossible dream on today structure, same in the minor cases. For work the europe mast have a spine (germany, Uk, France, Italy, Nordic countries) a assembly for the another and a balcon for the "yes, we are europe too". Interesting the countries cited in these comments like opposing kosovo all is dangerous near from Serbia. Europe will fallen down in the childish fantasy of a adult europe where all members are responsible for have right to voice.

Kate, compilation of your previous postings against Kosova independence is rather remarkable. It is like listening to RTS news but never mind, it is like a evening energizer and a reminder why Kosova needs to be independent. Your postings have constantly failed to convinced me of changing my mind and not supporting Kosova’s independence, same goes for this posting.

You are saying that Russia ’It is an attempt to uphold boundaries and international legal structures (which is within their own interest) and this is to the benefit of everyone. Have you heard of Russian planes bombers flying into British airspace. I believe that flying inside one countries airspace is breach of the international laws, the ones that Russia is protecting in the case of Kosova.

Than you say “You can't possibly believe that the EU will favour a bid for independence which is on extremely dangerous grounds in terms of security and precedents, as being of greater importance than EU unity” . Why cant independence of Kosova be more dangerous that independence of the Croatia, Macedonia or Montenegro. I think that EU think rather different.

I would like to agree with this one : I do have the same impression as you that the EU may not be able to 'organise a piss up in a brewery' at the moment. Especially when you have in mind countries like Slovakia, Bulgaria, Rumania that have their problems of their own

Than “If this had happened in the US, there would have been zero tolerance for the killing of any state policemen. They were regularly being murdered in Kosovo and often returned with the initials 'UCK' (KLA) carved in their bodies. This is well documented”
If K-Albanians had a treatment same as the minorities in US and UK it will not come to claim for the independence at all. Serbia wanted to create the very state that you are opposing here, the Greater Serbia without any Serbs in it. You see Serbia did not want the population of Kosova but only the land. I have to say that it is impossible and unachievable.
New states were always formed and they are going to be formed, it a natural process, it is called EVOLUTION if you have not heard about it. International laws have changed to accommodate the needs in the past i.e. to allow Serbia’s occupation of Kosova in 1913, and they are going to keep on changing.

I would say much more but I have no time

In order not to breake the EU unity Kosova is ready to come to a compromise, not to declare the independence but to adopt the Ahtisari plan. I belive that this is a compromise accepted by most if not all EU countries.
Who says that K-Albanians will not compromise the declaration of the Independece

Everyone is so stuck-up on EU's unity, but does anyone think that the US will back down just because Greece or Spain say no...when what's at stake here is winning the game against Russia.

When I hear names like EU, Spain, Greece, Hungary, Romania...it's like trying to hear soap bubbles bursting. It's not about them, it's never been about them. They are in the game just as an excuse to come up with pressure and counter-pressure. The US and Russia plays these countries like chess stones, and they can't do anything but play along.

Plus, the US can't afford to go wrong in this issue, and it won't. It has locked itself into a definitive result, full independence...and the ways that it might get there, might surprise all of us.

All everyone says is, oh UN, oh UNSC, but speaking such naive language on such a complex issue is simply wishful thinking. One way or another, Kosovo will be independent.

Forget about UN or EU, they don't hold much weight on this issue. They can only deal with aftermaths, not with problem solving.

miri
If the EU is not united, no military, no financial, no help whatsoever will be given to the albans. No one will invest in Kosovo infrastructure. Because what the situation is now it will get a lot worse. You have to understand that.

Well Kate,

Serbia does cannot 'own' the fate of 2 million albanians and thier lands.

British Emipre, and other European Emipres, 'ownend' most of the world, legaly, but at some point they had to give up their occupied land/colonies, since the local population was againsts them be there anymore.

The time has come for Serbia to do the same.

Serbia is like the disgruntled husband who does not want to give his wife a divorce, even though he tried to beat her to death. Its time to move on so both (kosovo and Serbia) can find new happy 'relationships' and separate, but still be civil to each other.

i find it quite comical to listen to all of these diplomats discussing how to make the peace in Serbia. If half of you had any sense enough to see that no one is going to get all they want they will have to compromise. If the EU is not united on this Kosovo business even with the US, Britian and France supporting this will not wash. England still uses the pound and not the Euro. So basically they are really not in the club only by name. So even if you have the US backing you do you think that the EU who has to provide this police force will deploy? NO they won't no matter how much people say what the US will do it is not written in Stone. A lower level state department spokesman speaks about how the US will support an unilateral declaration a few days later it was MISINTERPRETED. Hello wake all smell the coffee. Everytime something comes over the news wire everybody is busy closing the Kosovo business and the other side ranting and raving. Grow up people and wait for the real decision makers to make a decision US and Russia. Is the US willing to provoke the Russian? Will the EU slap russia and go forward? EU is thinkinig where will my Natural gas come from? Will the US foot the bill for the Europeon Natural Gas bill? I don't think so, the US is not going to ride to the rescue even if it is a Democrat in the White House. I voted Republican the last election and i will vote for Barack O, i don;t he is interested in Europeon Business. So in closing i hope B92 prints this response and maybe you guys and and gals will wake up and see reality not the way you wanted it to be but how it will eventually be settle by other then the people who frequently comment on this Forum. Again thank you B92 for providing unbiased forum.

Oh Kate, you are so right about this. It should be done legally, as Mike said. I can not help, but agree with this. Not only Kosovo issue, but all major issues throughout the world should go through proper channels.
On the other hand, "Serbia does need to be on board with any agreement" is what you wrote. I will not ask for clarification this time. You make less and less sense on daily bases, contradicting yourself in your postings.
As far as US looking for a quick fix you should know better than that (unless you are a high school teenager). US policies regarding Kosovo go way back all the way to the 1980/1990. YU/ Serbia was warned back then about treatment of its own citizens (read K-Albs).
It means that they have been involved, more or less, for more than 20 years in this, for you to claim that they are looking for a quick fix.
But that is besides the point now. The new reality is that Serbia has been losing its old allies constantly through the last 20 years (Brits, France, Italians, and even their closest relatives just rtecently, Montenegrins).
Again, as you should know everybody living in YU was proud of their country to a certain degree. It was not perfect, but it was a lot better than Albania, Bulgaria, Romania and even Russia.
K-Albs had won a well deserved autonomy within the Yu federation but it was taken away by Serbia, and there was nothing we could do about it (or other memebers of the federation for that matter). We all know what happened afterwards, regardless of how we look at it.
If Serbia was UK or US, we would never want to do anything, but work to try and make it better as our own country (which it was).
But you see Kate, the thing is that we don't want to be part of Serbia anymore, and I don't want to go anywhere else (eventhough I could settle anywhere I wanted in Europe or USA) because Kosovo, not Serbia is my homecountry. I will clarify for you and other posters here that, de facto Kosovo is a new country, but de jure we are still a province of Serbia.
It is true that this is a defining period for Europe, but this time Albs will have to be taken into account as opposed to the previous "defining" periods of Europe.
To be honest with you, at this point we don't really care what the Eu stance will be on this one. It would be excellent if they recognized our independence, but if they do not... well, we can't have everything now can we? I am trying to tell you that after all, we don't really care anymore.
To answer your (rhethorical) question at the very end of your post: Because Europe can't do a damned thing about it. Kosovars and their government don't mind being indebted to US.
To lowe,
For the first time I agree with you completely. But we knew from the very beggining that this might be the case and we didn't count on it. If it happens outside UNSC, than it will be up to individual states, including Serbia, if they will recognize our country or not.
To Miri,
Amigo, I have to travel from time to time, and in some countries I get my visa as a Serbian citizen. Sorry to disapoint you, man.
I hope that it will change soon, but until then I have to make a living.
BTW. It is interesting to see that most posters here are not living in Serbia at all, but they are the most "forceful" ones.
T0 b92
I hope my comment is not percieved as a threat or misunderstood by other posters. After all, those are my opinions only, and do not bear any weight beyond providing something for a debate and exchanging opinions.
Thank you.

Kate:
"To Miri - You can't possibly believe that the EU will favour a bid for independence which is on extremely dangerous grounds in terms of security and precedents, as being of greater importance than EU unity"

To Kate - You can't possibly believe that the EU will favour a bid for so called "broad autonomy" which is on extremely dangerous grounds in terms of security and precedents, as being of greater importance than EU unity.

To Roger7:
"miri,
This is a public forum. That you don’t like or agree with responses to your often caustic comments does not give you the authority to deny anyone's response.

I am not trying to enforce my "authority" on anyone. I think I have the right to let other people know what I don't like to be called. I am not offending anyone and I am not calling any one names.

To PB: "Miri - I'll enlighten your ignorance. The Basque region of Spain, according to Eta, want to b independent of Spain. Likewise, Kosovo wants to be independent of Serbia. Did i say anything about being independent of Europe?? "

I'll enlighten your ignorance. Spain is part of Europe. Asking for independence from Spain is as asking from independence from Europe.

Like Miri said, around 20 EU countries are ready to recognize Kosovo.

Apart from Spain, all other EU countries that oppose unilateral indepednence (greece, Slovakia, Romania, Cyprus) are one of the weakest, poorest, newest members of EU.

Whereas the countries that will recgonize Kosovo, are the biggest and most powerful.

Srboslav if you had to bet your money on who would win, would you bet on France and UK, or Romania and Greece??

Its quantity and quality in the side of independence.

Germany is the key, since they are still undecided. but in the end they will not go against all thier allies (USA, UK, France, Italy, Ntherlands, Scandinavian coutnries ..... ), to be on the side of Russia and Greece.

Mike, K. Albanians would love more than anyone if independence was done with UN resolution and not unilateraly, but with Russia's and Serbia's destructive attitude its impossible to get a resolution in the near future. But the status quo cannot go on anymore, it has already been over 8 years since 1999, and 19 years since Milosevic came to power. My generation has spent most of our lives waiting for a status solution. Serbia has had 19 years to come up with the satisfactory and acceptable proposals, but they failed miserably.

One way or another, status of Kosovo has to be settled now.

"to keep the EU united in spite of the different views within the bloc," Ruprecht Polenz"

Yep, that is very important, therefor EU will decide NOT to recognize Kosovo independent. Unity is after all more important to EU than that a few of the bigger EU states gets it will in being a lap dog in foreign policy to the US.

In the next few years there will be no big rewards to the countries that strictly follow the US policy because it will be a new governement in Washington. This could be translated to= nor more lucrative Halliburton contracts in reward for being a follower of US foreign policy

Unity will be achieved after all EU states recognize Kosovo independence. The majority of EU is pro-independence. It's just simple math that is easier to convince few members.
The members that have expressed concerns over unilateral independence( they have never said that will refuse it) are 4-5 out of 27 of them.

Srboslav

Think about this. Apart from Spain all the countries against independence (Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Cyrpus) are one of the poorest, smallest and least powerful in the EU, and countries that have only joined recently.

On the other side, the countries that are ready to recognize Kosovo, are the biggest, most powerful.

Who do you think its going to win? Where would you bet your money: on Greece and Slovakia, or France and Great Britain??

The key is Germany who is still undecided. But anybody could tell you that Germany is not going to go against its biggest allies, and go on the side of Russia, Greece, Romania etc etc...

And as far as a change in regime in USA: we albaninas do hope that Democrats win. You might have forgoten this, but it was the democrats that bombed Serbia, and it is the demorcats who are the biggest supporters of Kosovo independence. if there is one thing that all presidential candidates in US and Republicans and Democrats agree, is Kosovo's independence.

To Pricip:

"where and when has any EU nation stated on the record that they would undermine the UN by illegally recognising an illegal declaration?"

Every EU country, even those mentioned in your comment has iterated that Ahtisaari plan is a well balanced plan and should serve as the basis of every negotiation. It's only natural that EU would prefer such plan to be accepted at UNSC. In other words the desire expressed by EU members to have Ahtisaari plan endorsed in UN is directed to Russia and only Russia in a vague hope that Russia will change it's stance. Unfortunately this will not be the case and very soon EU will be faced with 3 main alternatives that are: independence, serbian offered autonomy and status quo. ( if you think of another please speak up) My question to you is:

"where and when has any EU nation stated on the record that they would accept status quo or Serbian offered autonomy as a solution to Kosovo"

Logically, the inability to answer this question, leads one as myself to believe that EU countries support independence.

Kate, compilation of your previous postings against Kosova independence is rather remarkable. It is like listening to RTS news but never mind, it is like a evening energizer and a reminder why Kosova needs to be independent. Your postings have constantly failed to convinced me of changing my mind and not supporting Kosova’s independence, same goes for this posting.

You are saying that Russia ’It is an attempt to uphold boundaries and international legal structures (which is within their own interest) and this is to the benefit of everyone. Have you heard of Russian planes bombers flying into British airspace. I believe that flying inside one countries airspace is breach of the international laws, the ones that Russia is protecting in the case of Kosova.

Than you say “You can't possibly believe that the EU will favour a bid for independence which is on extremely dangerous grounds in terms of security and precedents, as being of greater importance than EU unity” . Why cant independence of Kosova be more dangerous that independence of the Croatia, Macedonia or Montenegro. I think that EU think rather different.

I would like to agree with this one : I do have the same impression as you that the EU may not be able to 'organise a piss up in a brewery' at the moment. Especially when you have in mind countries like Slovakia, Bulgaria, Rumania that have their problems of their own

Than “If this had happened in the US, there would have been zero tolerance for the killing of any state policemen. They were regularly being murdered in Kosovo and often returned with the initials 'UCK' (KLA) carved in their bodies. This is well documented”
If K-Albanians had a treatment same as the minorities in US and UK it will not come to claim for the independence at all. Serbia wanted to create the very state that you are opposing here, the Greater Serbia without any Serbs in it. You see Serbia did not want the population of Kosova but only the land. I have to say that it is impossible and unachievable.
New states were always formed and they are going to be formed, it a natural process, it is called EVOLUTION if you have not heard about it. International laws have changed to accommodate the needs in the past i.e. to allow Serbia’s occupation of Kosova in 1913, and they are going to keep on changing.

I would say much more but I have no time

So now we find that the Germans have doubts & lets be honest about this not even the UK or France have stated they would do anything against the UN such as illegally recognise an illegal recognition by the PISG ethnic-Albanian parliment in Serbia's province which UNMIK has an immediate obligation to nullify!

thus the so called "International Community" is comprised of just the US willing to illegally recognise an illegal entity - way to go US upholding anarchy and ripping up international norms and laws!

It is time that everyone realised that only a "negotiated compromise" will be the result of these talks even if they go beyond the report submission to update General secretary Ban Ki-moon!

Thus come the 11th December just when Franch and Germans and other Europeans are turning up their gas heaters we will see;
No Independence
No Illegal Declaration
No Illegal Recognition
No violence - NATO will act.

Hopefully there will be a "negotiated compromise" but lets be positive and ensure the jaw-jaw continues until a "negotaited compromise" is found and the sooner the better for all of Serbia's citizens.

"EU has common stance on Kosovo"

All EU member states share the same position on Kosovo, French ambassador to Serbia, Jean-Francois Terral, told B92 on Monday.

While France is ready to join Britain and the United States in recognizing Kosovo's sovereignty, Germany has carefully avoided spelling out its position in the hope of brokering a compromise.

Reminding that the U.S. will support independence in that case, the daily said that if EU countries, especially Great Britain, take the side of the Kosovo Albanians as well, a spit will be seen within the EU regarding this central issue.

Other countries of the EU, such as Spain, Hungary and Greece, fear that more violence among minority communities throughout Europe will occur if independence in Kosovo is recognized. "

This article's title trumpeting a so-called common EU stance is full of holes as can be seen from the selected paragraphs after that.

Anyway it is such a joke to talk about commonality when the EU can't even agree on their basic constitutional reform! If they can be united on their constitution then I will believe this claim about Kosovo!

Miri,

where and when has any EU nation stated on the record that they would undermine the UN by illegally recognising an illegal declaration?

Only the US have been dumb enough to go on the record this was week. However, even that does not guarantee they will given they assume that the EU will blindly follow. However, the EU say they will remain united what ever that means and if 7 countries (Spain, Greece, Slovakia, Romania Cyprus, Hungary, and now Bulgaria) have said that they definitivly wont go out of the UN don't you realise their voice is getting louder! Only a solution that is acceptable to the UN is acceptable in the EU - i.e. something that would pass i.e. not even Supervised Independence!

Even Germany now is wobbling - looks like they at least learnt from their haste in the early 90's. Surely you can see that only a "negotiated compromise" is the way ahead?

And just what, pray tell, is this common stance? Certainly not unilateral recognition! If there is to be a united EU, it must recognize Kosovo's independence if, and only if, it is done through legal channels of international law. The Spains, Greeces, Romanias and Slovakias of the EU bloc will not be the ones destroying EU unity. Rather it will be the Great Britains and the Frances, if they recognize a unilateral declaration.

Do it legally, or don't do it at all. Pretty simple!

to be or not to be,that is the question for europe!
To be means to take decisions,even unpleasant and difficult ones...
Not to be is the wait and see politics that we still have because europe has not chosen to be or not to be...

The wait and see politic is not a politic,consequences of this politic is precisely the situation we have today in ex yougo and kosovo kosovo.
If europe had acted during milosheviq area,or just after 1999 ,the risks for the europe policy would not have been that much high and it would have been much more easier for belgrade to argue for the loss of kosovo . Now things have gone too far for every player / albanians will never accept less than independance,after 8 year of "freedom"!russian see it as a red line and america will certainly not accept to have it's foreign policy dictated by russia...Serbia is hoping by these delays that they will gain again kosovo and by so doing is just having albanians more and more proindependance !

Waiting more will only create more hate and confrontation and add the risk of destabilisation around!

Sorry for the repeat statements / post, I thought my original post was not going to be published by B92

Miri,

you agree that they would accept the UN route but unless of course a new reolution replaces 1244 then by implication they accept that as the status - i.e. continued Serbian sovereignity - that is the final and conclusive status. Think about it! You might not respect international law but the EU27 do!

Lets not forget they all 27 have stated that they will uphold the UN process - only the US who are not part of the EU have been so reckless to suggest they would ignore the UNSC resolution that they formulated and signed. I can't see how else you can perceive this other then tacit acceptance that continued Serbian Sovereignity is the final outcome if the talks come up with no other alternative - unless you can direct us to specific publication by a EU state stating they would act outside the UN.

"According to the United Nations and the UN Security Council resolution which established the current Kosovo protectorate status, Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia's national territory.

" - The integrity of the UN Security Council's role in the system of international law is at stake here," says a Western diplomat in New York Sunday, speaking off the record. The diplomat, who holds the rank of Ambassador, also explained that it will take a new Security Council resolution before any change in Kosovo's status can be considered legally binding. This is because the current government structures in Kosovo, unlike those currently in Transdniestria, were established under a UN Security Council mandate.

I truly hope a win-win "negotiated compromise" is found but what is clear since July is that Serbia's Soverignity is now only questioned by the US and huge gulf is opening up between the US & "European" viewpoint which respects the UN resolution, norms and laws.

Apologies for this rather long post, which I'm sure will send several into the new independent state of wrath!

Mike: "Do it legally, or don't do it at all. Pretty simple!"

I agree 100% with this. If it goes through the proper channels, then fine if Kosovo becomes independent. But Serbia does need to be on board with any agreement.

Too many people speak of Russia's unwillingness to allow a European nation to be stripped of sovereign territory as though it is an attempt to sabotage. It is an attempt to uphold boundaries and international legal structures (which is within their own interest) and this is to the benefit of everyone.

Besides which, the US and UK are two countries which have used their right to veto in the SC far more frequently than Russia.

To Miri - You can't possibly believe that the EU will favour a bid for independence which is on extremely dangerous grounds in terms of security and precedents, as being of greater importance than EU unity.

The US is just looking for a quick fix and a few of the European nations are following behind them in the hope that they may pull it off. France would switch track and possibly even the UK now there is no longer Blair at the helm, if the rest of the EU favour other channels.

I'm not saying they would go against the US, but they could certainly try and persuade the Bush administration to look at other options and approaches.

It is really dangerous to try and change European boundaries in this gung-ho fashion, let alone in the Balkans.

Nikshala: "My generation has spent most of our lives waiting for a status solution. Serbia has had 19 years to come up with the satisfactory and acceptable proposals, but they failed miserably."

Let's call this what it is. You have been seeking independence from your sovereign state for 19 years. That is not the same as 'waiting for status solution'.

In 1999 Robin Cook (who was a staunch supporter of Bill and Blair's great adventure of 1999) delivered a report to the UK parliament that there had been an equal amount of killings on both the Serbian and KLA 'sides'. I am highlighting 'sides because it is hardly an equal assessment when a state is fighting an attempt at separatism.

If this had happened in the US, there would have been zero tolerance for the killing of any state policemen. They were regularly being murdered in Kosovo and often returned with the initials 'UCK' (KLA) carved in their bodies. This is well documented.

I'm not saying that Albanians weren't mistreated. I am sure that they were arrested and treated very harshly, even murdered, and were sometimes quite innocent. But as I said before, no state would stand idle while a violent attempt at separatism was taking place and police were being murdered.

To Iowe: I do have the same impression as you that the EU may not be able to 'organise a piss up in a brewery' at the moment.

This is a defining period in European history, and all states are aware that they have to work together to move forward. They are hardly going to mark this by slicing off territory from a fellow European state.

Everyone knows that Serbia is very important to Europe for all sorts of reasons, far more than appeasing one ethnic group.

New states should not be formed on ethnic grounds by a body such as the EU which stipulates that xenophobia and bigotry is ILLEGAL. Europe is about mixing people and free movement and trade; not creating a pure Albanian statelet and risking the next land grab starting in Macedonia.

Finally, why should the EU feel content at the US having a whacking great military base in the centre of Europe and basic control over an indebted government?!

Kate

As far as KLA is concerend, it only appeared on the scene after Milosevic brutal regime for few years. And most K.Albanisns never even heard of it until 1998. 99% of albanians supported Rugova and peaceful means, until very late in 1998, when massacers where happening all areound them, and that was too much. And yes, after Milsoevic came to power most people wanted independence, but would have settled for high autonomy.

So it was serbian nationalism and the beginning of the Milosevic regime, that caused all this (albanian demand for independence).

What you are saying is that, if a husband was beating and abusing his wife for years, and then she had enough and started to fight back, - that would give him the right to beat her sensless and try to kill her because she 'attacked' him.

To Princip:

The problem with your logic is that you are holding the hope for the Europe to remain disunited, which is precisely what EU is fighting against. Even if EU fails in the attempt to remain united it will still work in favor of Kosovo Independence.

Three scenarios are possible.
1. Europe rejects unanimously independence
2. Europe accepts unanimously independence (even if it's not endorsed in UNSC)
3. Europe remains divided and recognition of independence will be decided by each individual nation.

I don't know what makes you think that the first scenario is most probable than the last two. To my belief the last one is most probable, so to say the least, even if Europe is not united the odds are in favor of Kosovo since most of EU countries will recognize Kosovo individually. This is because even those countries that you mention, in principle agree that Ahtisaari plan is the best plan. They only are emphasizing that it will be better that this plan is accepted by UNSC.

For some reason you believe in the first scenario, but I fail to see how after 8 years and billions of euros, human waste, war and so on, Europe decides to go back to square one, risking all it has achieved so far just to please Serbia and Russia.

In order not to breake the EU unity Kosova is ready to come to a compromise, not to declare the independence but to adopt the Ahtisari plan. I belive that this is a compromise accepted by most if not all EU countries.
Who says that K-Albanians will not compromise the declaration of the Independece

To PB: "Take Spain for example. Eta, emboldened by the KLA in Kosovo have resumed their offensive in Spain and have declared that they will accept nothing less than independence. Will Spain grant this independence?"


Independence from who? From Europe? What are you talking about? Unless ETA wants to go to the moon. If Serbia had behaved differently it would have been in EU by now and there would have been no need for Kosovo Independence.

Princip, what you are suggesting is that Serbia holds Kosovo, but Europe should police it on behalf of Serbia. This is precisely what Europe wants to wash its hands off mister. Europe doesn't want its troop committed forever in Kosovo just because this will suit Serbia.


On another note, your language is very offending. Calling albanians (wherever they are, in Kosovo or elsewhere) Serb- Albanians is a very insulting phrase. Albanians don't want to have anything to do with a nation that shelters war criminals. To make you understand easier what I mean I will put it in a personal perspective. You and I don't share anything in common. If you are for a dialog and exchange of facts then that's fine, otherwise don't bother to respond to my comments and I will not respond to yours.
As to someone who said this is the same as calling someone American-Albanian, I would say that I am one of them and I am proud to be.

miri,

Don't know where you are from but if you are from Kosovo you are a SERBIAN citizen. You may not like that but Kosovo is part of Serbia.

Like there are Germans living in East-Begium. Austrians in North Italy.

Why not reconcile yourself with being part of Serbia?

Remain united?
Strange when all other countries are saying no without a resolution. So say what you want all that will end up in the end will be a bitterly divided EU and you looking stupid.

Why would Spain, Greece want to pay for your expensive ideas and risk their soldiers for things they not only dont believe in but oppose.

What is this guy talking about? There is absolutely no unity in Europe on the Kosovo issue. Europe is still totally split on this issue. Unless he means that Europe will only do things through the UN, and is united on this issue? This is very unclear.

Nikshala
Srboslav if you had to bet your money on who would win, would you bet on France and UK, or Romania and Greece??

There are a lot more then just Romania and Greece. Its like a domino effect. If Greece, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Austria, Cyprus, Sweden and several others dont agree to recognise you, no one will. Its all about who will pick up the tab, all about the UN, all about precedent. Why do you think anyone is willing to go so far for you? They will not.

Germany distanced itself ASAP. They know where it will lead.

As for the winners.... RUSSIA and Serbia.

CCCC

This (unity of europe on vote on any subject) is a impossible dream on today structure, same in the minor cases. For work the europe mast have a spine (germany, Uk, France, Italy, Nordic countries) a assembly for the another and a balcon for the "yes, we are europe too". Interesting the countries cited in these comments like opposing kosovo all is dangerous near from Serbia. Europe will fallen down in the childish fantasy of a adult europe where all members are responsible for have right to voice.

There is absolutely no hope that Europe will be united on this issue. Take Spain for example. Eta, emboldened by the KLA in Kosovo have resumed their offensive in Spain and have declared that they will accept nothing less than independence. Will Spain grant this independence? I don't think so and how could they if they recognised Kosovo??

Everyone is so stuck-up on EU's unity, but does anyone think that the US will back down just because Greece or Spain say no...when what's at stake here is winning the game against Russia.

When I hear names like EU, Spain, Greece, Hungary, Romania...it's like trying to hear soap bubbles bursting. It's not about them, it's never been about them. They are in the game just as an excuse to come up with pressure and counter-pressure. The US and Russia plays these countries like chess stones, and they can't do anything but play along.

Plus, the US can't afford to go wrong in this issue, and it won't. It has locked itself into a definitive result, full independence...and the ways that it might get there, might surprise all of us.

All everyone says is, oh UN, oh UNSC, but speaking such naive language on such a complex issue is simply wishful thinking. One way or another, Kosovo will be independent.

Forget about UN or EU, they don't hold much weight on this issue. They can only deal with aftermaths, not with problem solving.

Miri,

on the contrary I believe the EU will unite behind a European solution - one that allows it to take on the EUMIK mantle but respects continued Serbian Soverignity - something the Serbian Government will be able to accept within the right boundaries and protections. There are still 3 months worth of talks and the EU unity will be formed by the lowest common denominator and that for the hardcore seccesionists ethnic-Albanians & the ruling mafiocracy might not be acceptable but what are they going to do - spoil the opportunity for the hundreds of thousands of Serbian Albanians who realise the the advantages of being part of the Serbian state and clamour to get their passports?

EU is about pulling down walls and borders not creating artifical ones! I am actually looking forward to the EU unity coming about so that everyone can be steered away from the warmongering folly of the US!

Kate - good post and I very much doubt PM Brown is willing to be seen as a poodle of the US like Bliar before him. In fact I have spoken with someone in a close circle to him reiterating the need for distance from the US. Even Miliband & Kouchners comments are openly ambiguous - they know the US is weak and economically bankrupt. Thankfully the BRIC (Brazil,Russia, India & China) nations are keeping the world economy going for now !

funcakes... you are an interesting fellow... =)

the US are on their way downhill...and you are overrating them in a manner that I am really amused to read it...

they are having severe problems in Iraq, can´t make much more than living in containers in Kabul, not having control about the territories outside the afghan capital... and you wanna tell us that they are ruling the world and the UN and EU are helpless...???

miri,
This is a public forum. That you don’t like or agree with responses to your often caustic comments does not give you the authority to deny anyone's response.

miri
If the EU is not united, no military, no financial, no help whatsoever will be given to the albans. No one will invest in Kosovo infrastructure. Because what the situation is now it will get a lot worse. You have to understand that.

"Serb- Albanians is a very insulting phrase. Albanians don't want to have anything to do with a nation that shelters war criminals."

if you're an albanian born in kosovo, you are a serbian with an albanian ethnicity... if you don't believe us just check your birth certificate... sheltering war criminals... at least we don't have them running the govn't... agim ceku "was the officer responsible for shelling the Serbian refugee columns and for targeting the UN-declared "safe" city of Knin during the Croatian offensive known as Operation Storm. Some 500 innocent civilians perished in those merciless barrages, and senior Canadian officers who witnessed the slaughter demanded that Ceku be indicted. O He was decorated nine times by Croatia for his service and rose to the rank of brigadier-general." Scott Taylor Canadian Esprit de Corps. "

good point miri!

To Nikshala. You say that Serbian had 19 years to come up with an acceptable solution. That's hard to do when everything they propose is immediately rejected by the Albanians. Nothing but total independence is acceptable to the Albanians, so how can anyone come up with a solution? Even God would have trouble finding a solution that Albanians would accept.

Oh Kate, you are so right about this. It should be done legally, as Mike said. I can not help, but agree with this. Not only Kosovo issue, but all major issues throughout the world should go through proper channels.
On the other hand, "Serbia does need to be on board with any agreement" is what you wrote. I will not ask for clarification this time. You make less and less sense on daily bases, contradicting yourself in your postings.
As far as US looking for a quick fix you should know better than that (unless you are a high school teenager). US policies regarding Kosovo go way back all the way to the 1980/1990. YU/ Serbia was warned back then about treatment of its own citizens (read K-Albs).
It means that they have been involved, more or less, for more than 20 years in this, for you to claim that they are looking for a quick fix.
But that is besides the point now. The new reality is that Serbia has been losing its old allies constantly through the last 20 years (Brits, France, Italians, and even their closest relatives just rtecently, Montenegrins).
Again, as you should know everybody living in YU was proud of their country to a certain degree. It was not perfect, but it was a lot better than Albania, Bulgaria, Romania and even Russia.
K-Albs had won a well deserved autonomy within the Yu federation but it was taken away by Serbia, and there was nothing we could do about it (or other memebers of the federation for that matter). We all know what happened afterwards, regardless of how we look at it.
If Serbia was UK or US, we would never want to do anything, but work to try and make it better as our own country (which it was).
But you see Kate, the thing is that we don't want to be part of Serbia anymore, and I don't want to go anywhere else (eventhough I could settle anywhere I wanted in Europe or USA) because Kosovo, not Serbia is my homecountry. I will clarify for you and other posters here that, de facto Kosovo is a new country, but de jure we are still a province of Serbia.
It is true that this is a defining period for Europe, but this time Albs will have to be taken into account as opposed to the previous "defining" periods of Europe.
To be honest with you, at this point we don't really care what the Eu stance will be on this one. It would be excellent if they recognized our independence, but if they do not... well, we can't have everything now can we? I am trying to tell you that after all, we don't really care anymore.
To answer your (rhethorical) question at the very end of your post: Because Europe can't do a damned thing about it. Kosovars and their government don't mind being indebted to US.
To lowe,
For the first time I agree with you completely. But we knew from the very beggining that this might be the case and we didn't count on it. If it happens outside UNSC, than it will be up to individual states, including Serbia, if they will recognize our country or not.
To Miri,
Amigo, I have to travel from time to time, and in some countries I get my visa as a Serbian citizen. Sorry to disapoint you, man.
I hope that it will change soon, but until then I have to make a living.
BTW. It is interesting to see that most posters here are not living in Serbia at all, but they are the most "forceful" ones.
T0 b92
I hope my comment is not percieved as a threat or misunderstood by other posters. After all, those are my opinions only, and do not bear any weight beyond providing something for a debate and exchanging opinions.
Thank you.

Miri - I'll enlighten your ignorance. The Basque region of Spain, according to Eta, want to b independent of Spain. Likewise, Kosovo wants to be independent of Serbia. Did i say anything about being independent of Europe??

Spain CANNOT recognise Kosovo as it would have no excuse for NOT granting the Basque region of Spain independence if they asked for it.

We can all go into Europe - that isn't an issue.

Nikshala: "What you are saying is that, if a husband was beating and abusing his wife for years, and then she had enough and started to fight back, - that would give him the right to beat her sensless and try to kill her because she 'attacked' him."

You cannot compare the situation between an independence seeking province within a state; and a woman's right to fight back against an abusive husband/ partner.

The province is part of the state; wives and partners are not legally 'owned' by their husbands.

But there is one common factor: the right of the individual. This would rightly be upheld in any modern legal system in the world.

Well Kate,

Serbia does cannot 'own' the fate of 2 million albanians and thier lands.

British Emipre, and other European Emipres, 'ownend' most of the world, legaly, but at some point they had to give up their occupied land/colonies, since the local population was againsts them be there anymore.

The time has come for Serbia to do the same.

Serbia is like the disgruntled husband who does not want to give his wife a divorce, even though he tried to beat her to death. Its time to move on so both (kosovo and Serbia) can find new happy 'relationships' and separate, but still be civil to each other.

Kate:
"To Miri - You can't possibly believe that the EU will favour a bid for independence which is on extremely dangerous grounds in terms of security and precedents, as being of greater importance than EU unity"

To Kate - You can't possibly believe that the EU will favour a bid for so called "broad autonomy" which is on extremely dangerous grounds in terms of security and precedents, as being of greater importance than EU unity.

To Roger7:
"miri,
This is a public forum. That you don’t like or agree with responses to your often caustic comments does not give you the authority to deny anyone's response.

I am not trying to enforce my "authority" on anyone. I think I have the right to let other people know what I don't like to be called. I am not offending anyone and I am not calling any one names.

To PB: "Miri - I'll enlighten your ignorance. The Basque region of Spain, according to Eta, want to b independent of Spain. Likewise, Kosovo wants to be independent of Serbia. Did i say anything about being independent of Europe?? "

I'll enlighten your ignorance. Spain is part of Europe. Asking for independence from Spain is as asking from independence from Europe.

i find it quite comical to listen to all of these diplomats discussing how to make the peace in Serbia. If half of you had any sense enough to see that no one is going to get all they want they will have to compromise. If the EU is not united on this Kosovo business even with the US, Britian and France supporting this will not wash. England still uses the pound and not the Euro. So basically they are really not in the club only by name. So even if you have the US backing you do you think that the EU who has to provide this police force will deploy? NO they won't no matter how much people say what the US will do it is not written in Stone. A lower level state department spokesman speaks about how the US will support an unilateral declaration a few days later it was MISINTERPRETED. Hello wake all smell the coffee. Everytime something comes over the news wire everybody is busy closing the Kosovo business and the other side ranting and raving. Grow up people and wait for the real decision makers to make a decision US and Russia. Is the US willing to provoke the Russian? Will the EU slap russia and go forward? EU is thinkinig where will my Natural gas come from? Will the US foot the bill for the Europeon Natural Gas bill? I don't think so, the US is not going to ride to the rescue even if it is a Democrat in the White House. I voted Republican the last election and i will vote for Barack O, i don;t he is interested in Europeon Business. So in closing i hope B92 prints this response and maybe you guys and and gals will wake up and see reality not the way you wanted it to be but how it will eventually be settle by other then the people who frequently comment on this Forum. Again thank you B92 for providing unbiased forum.