DSS official threatens force in Kosovo

I don't blame them for coming out with this. It's a shame, but by seemingly bending to the threats of violence by the Albanians in Kosovo the 'international community' has sent a message that if they are afraid of violence they will back down. Hopefully this is now changing with diplomatic efforts being taken more seriously, but this will act as a safeguard/ warning of sorts.

I also notice that the mention of sending in troops is specificed as being ONLY if unilateral independence is declared and supported. If it declared and NOT supported then the troops there already will be bound to deal with any ensuing violence.

Any country would seal their borders and send in troops if there was a threat of annexing territory. Kosovo may see itself as being independent already but that is not the case legally or officially.

Lets hope that a solution will be found to avert any violence by any group. But in order for this to happen, the Kosovan provincial government has to accept that independence is off the table and another solution has to be found.

This will only happen if the US supports the EU and Russian views that BOTH sides must agree to some sort of compromise.

It doesn't suit anyone to be in limbo and discussions must be seriously promoted. If status is to be discussed then the Kosovan government must drop their 'we will walk out if status other than independence is mentioned'.

You'd think Serbia (Milosevic-type politicians) would learn their lesson once. every war theu have started in the last 17 years, they have lost. Do you want to get bombed again?

The actions of politicans like these guys (DSS) have caused catastrophic damage to the whole of Balkans. Before the wars in 90s the ex-YU countries were the most developed in the region. before the wars people from Kosovo and rest of YU could go to countries like Bulgaria with one week's wages with the whole family, and live there like a king! People could travel to most countries whithout Visas.

17 years later even Romania and Bulgaria are in EU, whereas Serbia and Kosovo and other ex-YU have become the poorest in the region.

Are you still not satisfied with the damage you have caused? If one person did what he wanted, including military actions and everything else, was Milosevic, and look were it got him and where it got Serbia! This guy and the rest of DSS are idiots.

Like I said any illegal declaration followed by illegal recognition immediatly invalidates 1244 and places the conflict back to 9th June 1999 - all NATO troops will be acting again without legality. We have already heard that the Germans and Swiss would immediatly pull out. The US are over streched in Iraq let alone Afghanistan - I think any sane person can understand now what Polt was meaning by his freudian slip;

"What if..."

It is a natural reaction to defend ones sovereignity - the UK sent it's troops 8,000 miles to protects it soverignity over the Falkland Islands - I guess Serbia has every right to suggest the same under such a scenario and clearly are making it's position heard to ensure the jaw-jaw continues after 10th December if there is no compromise. The region does not need such a scenario to be followed - irrespective of the US wish to continue on such a path and I think the Europeans are quietly ensuring the message is filtered through to those who threaten illegal actions!

Hahaha

its quite funny how the very people who have been preaching against threats of violence here for the last few months (Kate, Prinicp, etc..), all of the sudden support the threat of violence and force coming from Serbia! Talk about hipocrisy.

Kate suggest that albanians HAVE to accept that independence is off the table! Or what? are we to expect more of these threats? Even is Serbia threated to lauch a nuclear bomb or whatever, it would not deter the albanians from independence.

Serbia and Kate's position are ridicuous, they say they are willing to compromise but only if its autonomy!!! What kind of compromise is thats, since the least Serbia can offer is autonomy anyway? So basicaly they are saying that they will not compromise or move from their original position which is autonomy.

Once Serbian govemernt realsies that autonomy is off the table, than a compormise solution can be found.

Kate the problem for you in not the 'provinical goverment of Kosovo', but the 2 million albanians in Kosovo who detest the idea of having any kind of link with Serbia.

The west is beginning to understand the territorial issue defined in 1244 and will be breaking an international law if it goes against it. A properly negotiated settlement is the only sensible way forward.

However, 1244 does fall if independence is declared - in all of its content. Non-violent (unarmed) reoccupation of Kosovo by Serbian troops would actually have to be defended by NATO - no need to fight!

However, these thought experiments are not what is needed - sensible cooperation between the parties is what is required.

Kate - very well said and I agree completely.
One thing Mr. Prorokovic forgot to add is that if certain states bypass the UN and unilaterally recognize greater albania, Bosnian Serbs will immediately declare independence and join Serbia. Serbian troops will also be deployed in Republika Srpska, as well as in Kosovo. Russia will support Serbia in both these endeavours. The US/UK can't have its cake and eat it too, and they need to know if they go ahead with their crazy plans, there will be a domino effect in the Balkans and around the world. You may as well use international law documents as toilet paper if this were to happen.

Its a sad future but an imminent one. If Kosovo goes the albanians in macedonia should seek autonomy and then declare independance. Same with the serbs in Montenegro. Not to mention the bosnian Serbs. Some realy great diplomatic work by the world powers fixed this situation up real nice. Cant wait till they make 3 states out of Iraq!

It is shame that Serbians have not learned from recent wars they’ve started and lost. Do you think that Albanians will wait for Serbian army with flowers? It was a different situation when you had Kosovo under control and all the ammunition left from the former Yugoslavia (which Kosovan paid for it as well). Believe me, every single Albanian knows how bad it is being under Serbian boots, so if you got guts to try do something stupid, wait and see.
With this threatening I can conclude that your politicians do not care at all about fellow Serbs in Kosova. All they care about is their position and being in the power through creating problems.
If your politicians had any common sense, by now you would have been in EU and had better standards…
In the former Yugoslavia when kosovan Albanians stressed their concerned on what Serbia is trying to do, you rushed into removing even the basic rights a human being can have. Now you are trying to fool us, with some Autonomy and some “extensive rights”.
Unfortunately now it is too late, you can promise us the world, but you have failed to convince Albanians (even other nations) to deliver.
I hope Dušan Proroković is one of those soldiers that is going to come to Kosova.

One wonders what effect would a trade embargo have on Kosovo. Todate, it is true that billions of Albanian euros end up in Serbia via a huge trade imbalance. A trade embargo would make sure that those loads of cash would go straight to Albania.

And you can be sure Serbia wont be able to block that part of Kosovo's border.

So bring it on Belgrade. You're our best chance to the realization of "Greater Albania"

I guess the Saber Rattling has started. If one side can threatened unrest what not the other. Looks like KFOR will redeploy. Now let's us not say "oh the USA will not let nothing like that happen. Remember it was democrats who lauch the Airstrikes not Republicans. So if B92 publish this comment i am sure all kinds of comments will be back.

Ridiculous statement by one of Kostunica's lackeys.
Let these people send their own children to fight for Kosovo. Not mine, Not yours.
And unlike the Serbs that are safely commenting from London, Chicago or wherever, I despise the thought of violence. Even as a threat it doesn't work.
Kosovo is not worth a single Serbian life. Split Kosovo, and the Serbian army can return to the north. But it is not worth fighting to bring back 2 million hostile Albanians under BG's rule.

If the albanians declare independence and gets support from a NATO country then the Kumanovo technical agreement that ended the war will no longer be in effect meaning the serb army and police have every right to enter the Kosovo province. Legally.

I don't think NATO will fight a ground war on the basis of illegitimate and illegal land grab and against a democratic country in Europe.

If not a compromise is reached then I believe there will be troubles ahead.

Ofcourse B92 refused to post my simple and direct comments. I simply said nothing different then that of BEHAR. If there is a war, I will join the volunteers and thats it.

I personally hope for no war, and am 100% against it. But right is right and albans are wrong.


CCCC

I'm a new poster and I just can't believe what I read from these guys from Albania...please just have the stomach to answer me why did your Agim Ceku fight with Franjo to not allow the Serbs in Krajina independence when they were the majority and why didn't you cry loud like you do now for human rights during operation storm. Now you are all for an ethnic majority as a right to self-determination?

Trade embargo and sealing the border as long as they are on the side of serbia proper, they can do thatnow but marching inside KosovA is a dream that will never come true.
Actually if they seal the border between KosovA and serbia proper will be the best thing for both sides untill serbia matures.

Nikshala: "Serbia and Kate's position are ridicuous"

Yeah, me and Serbia just came up with something over lunch! Foor goodness sake, Nikshala, I am just voicing my own thoughts.

Serbia IS compromising by offering a very high level of autonomy. As I've said before, this is not an even playing field, because Kosovo is currently part of Serbia's territory.

Of course the Kosovo Albanians need a high level of self governance, but they are not a majority within Serbia, only within one province. Therefore they can't just dictate the right to take the territory.

I understand that this thinking was encouraged because the Bush administration and certain EU countries thought that they could just go ahead and chop off some land to hand to an ethnic group. But, no, they can't. It goes against all legal principles in the world... there has to be an agreement, hence compromise.

If a compromise of some kind can't be found, everyone will lose out.

And for the record, I am not in favour of threats of violence at all. But I can understand why these have been made because of the reasons I mentioned before. You can't have it all ways. If threats of violence are used for political gain by one side, then the other is bound to deal the same card.

Serb forces are not welcomed in Kosova. But if that happens, I will join immediatly to K-Albanian units, to fight these Serbian forces. During last war, I was reporter and Human Rights Activist.

You are right nikshala. It is really strange how some people( Kate, Princip) in this site find Serbia threatening with violence acceptable while on the other hand when Kosovars say that they will use any the means to protect their freedom threatening to security in Europe. My opinion is that Serbia has more than once not only threatened, but destabilized the region and severely endangered the security of Europe.

As well, I don’t understand who is this failed politician threatening and what with. NATO is here to react against any violence, Princip u remember No Violence = NATO will act.
Even if NATO leaves who is going to come to Kosova to support and satisfy the ideological blunders of the failed Serbian politicians. Serbians are sick of living a dogs life as suggested by these failed politicians, housewife’s, pensioner and some of you here.
Actually there is something that this failed politicians can do. I would suggest they look after their population that are tired of the life that they are being offered. As well, accept Serbs form Krajina and Kosova as equal citizens of Serbia not second class citizens since they are the victims of the failed Serbian politics based on myths, politics that some of you are in favour of revival.

"International community suggested autonomy in 1999 in Rambuliet, which the albanian side accepte to stop the bloodshed, but Belgrade was too cocky and they were too busy singing! now its too late. "

Wrong. That was not the soul reason for the Yugoslav objection to Rambouillet. Certainly Belgrade had qualms with the terms of the autonomy that was put at the table but it was likely that in the face of international Belgrade would have acquiesed.

Now the real reason for the Serbian/Yugoslav objection was the secret Appendix B which was deliberately inserted by Allbright at the last second to provoke Belgrade into rejecting the Agreement and give NATO the pretence and excuse it needed to launch its illegal war (Gulf of Tonkin incident anybody). Appendix B called for the following -

'NATO personnel shall enjoy, together with their vehicles, vessels, aircraft, and equipment, free and unrestricted passage and unimpeded access throughout the FRY including associated airspace and territorial waters. This shall include, but not be limited to, the right of bivouac, maneuver, billet, and utilization of any areas or facilities as required for support, training, and operations'.

In otherwards Appendix B called for the complete NATO military occupation of FRY, thus usurping its sovereignty and independence. Now can you tell me Nikshalla, what country on earth worth its salt would have ratified this?

Wrong Mr Isufi on the East Timor analogy. Portugal effectively abandoned East Timor in late November 1975 in the aftermath of the Carnation Revolution by withdrawing its troops, officials and police. The Marxist FREITLIN party which won earlier elections supervised by the Portuguese declared independence on 27 November 1975 unopposed by Lisbon. 9 days later Indonesia invaded with the tacit approval of Australia and the US under the pretence of preventing a communist takeover in Portuguese Timor. To sum it up.

1) East Timor never belonged to Indonesia in the first place as it was seized illegally by Jakarta and because of this, from 1975-99 it was recognised by the UN as defacto Portugese territory.

2) The last Portuguese Governor in East Timor, Mario Lemes Pires fled Dili in August 1975 in the wake of a coup on the island mounted by those opposed to FREITLIN. When the Portuguese Governor failed to return and faced with mounting anarchy, FREITLIN had no choice but to declare independence in order to impose law & order and fill the vaccum filled by the departing colonial authorities which was plunging the territory into anarchy. In effect Lisbon abandoned East Timor and left the new FREITLIN governemnt in Dili to their own devices. I simply fail to see the Kosovo connection

"It is shame that Serbians have not learned from recent wars they’ve started and lost. Do you think that Albanians will wait for Serbian army with flowers? It was a different situation when you had Kosovo under control and all the ammunition left from the former Yugoslavia (which Kosovan paid for it as well). Believe me, every single Albanian knows how bad it is being under Serbian boots, so if you got guts to try do something stupid, wait and see."
Well said Alb!!

See also the comments of Princip and Kate. I see already the probability of the Serbs taking some foolish actions and get hit hard again. Do they need to be hit in evey decade to get to their senses?

Kate

International community suggested autonomy in 1999 in Rambuliet, which the albanian side accepte to stop the bloodshed, but Belgrade was too cocky and they were too busy singing! now its too late.

How do you mean Serbia is willing to compromise? Autonomy is least they can offer by any kind of moral or international law, expesially since Kosovo did have a quite extensive autonomy - which we all now was revoked. Now if today Serbia had very different, mature and responsible politicians, to what it had in the 90s, than maybe you would have had a point, although I doubt we would accepted it anyway. However considering more than 60% of Serbia's popualtion voted for parties like Radicals and DSS, I am afraid your offer of autonomy means nothing.

MLKG made a very good point - its very easy for people like you Kate, Dragan, Prinicip to advocate use of threats, since you live abroad, put many people of Serbia are against it. If you don't believe me, go read the comments on the serbian verison of the site.

Kate you are suggesting autonomy as 'compromise', but we albanians are saying thats not enough, its too late, for the reasons that everybody knows by now. How do you expect to keep and convice 2 million people to remain within Serbia, who don't want that ever? How? Ignore you usual respone 'internatinal law' 'illegal', but just answer the question in logicaly.

If you haven't got an asnwer than don't suggest 'solutions' if you don't know what they mean or how they would work.

To all the posters,
None of us is in such a position to state as a fact what will the final outcome be.
I have addressed a simple question to Serbian posters five different times and never got an answer. The question was who will do what and how, in case (I am sure about it, maybe not in December but shortly after)Kosovo declares independence???
All I have heard so far is silence.
So I can interpret it this way:
Serbs think (and actualy count on this), that they will be able to impose their will on Albs through military means, eventhough they claim that they are against violence and want to grant us a "better life" within Serbia (I know what that would be, and no, thank you very much I am not interested).
Lady Kate,
You keep saying that there should be a mutual solution to this issue, but there simply isn't any.
Then again you say that K-Albs should do this in order for BG to grant us a few rights. We don't need your guidance to tell us what we need to do to appease Serbia, for the simple reason that we simply don't care what Serbia has to say over this issue.
Your post is self explanatory in it self "Lets hope that a solution will be found to avert any violence by any group. But in order for this to happen..."
No my dear, it should have been said NO VIOLENCE AT ANY COST whether from Albs or Serbs.
Albs will not start any violence since there is no reason for them to do so, since there aren't any threats to us, but in case the Serbian army decides to cross the border things would be different.
Don't you agree???
You guys talk constantly about intl law and order, but if that means that to abide to that intl law and order there is a chance to go through hell (last war in Kosovo)we don't care about it anymore. We are sick and tired of double standards.
Give me some reasonable arguments why would we negotiate something that we already have???
God bless you all.
BTW,I still have Serbian neighbours living two houses down the street where I live, and I don't hate any of you as you might percieve frof this post.
Everything stated above is only an opinion of mine and a possible scenario.
To b92:
Please try to post this post as it is for the sake of argument, but if it might be percieved as an offence or derogatory to your posters, edit or delete it completely.
Thank you for giving us a means to interact with each other.

Dear me it would seem that the penny is starting to drop!

For the ethnic-Albanian commentators please realise that this is a scenario that is inevitable if IF your leadership unilaterally declare and IF the US or any other NATO nation state illegally recognised and by doing so they and such abrupt actions would have ripped up the kumanovo agreement and disregarded the UN resolution that they formulated and signed. Serbia would have not initiated such action it is warning that this is the inevitable destination of pursuing such an illegal move.

$In this respect Serbia has every right to ensure it's sovereignity and there is very little that can be done or said and guess what the US did more then turn a blind eye when Croatia imposed it's sovereignity - get ready for it to wash it's hands and turn a blind eye like Polt said;

"What if...."

But there is an alternative - learn to accept the state your in and help rebuild reconcilation and a win-win that all in Serbia deserve including it's ethnic Albanians in it's southern province.

One other foot note remeber that the 10th Decemember will be early winter so don't expect France and Germany to be swayed by the US over Russia what with many predicting a severe winter for continental Europe! I don't believe that such a sceanrio will come about on the 10th December but it might be the turning point for the Serbian Albanians to realise the state they are in and get on helping to make a better Serbia for all of it's people.

Alb.
It is shame that Serbians have not learned from recent wars they’ve started and lost. Do you think that Albanians will wait for Serbian army with flowers?

Sure thay will if Serbian army use ww 2 german unifom
Aleksandar

Kate

Since you seem on the mood for answering questions, asnwer mine.

"Kate you are suggesting autonomy as 'compromise', but we albanians are saying thats not enough, its too late, for the reasons that everybody knows by now. How do you expect to keep and convice 2 million people to remain within Serbia, who don't want that ever? How? Ignore you usual respone 'internatinal law' 'illegal', but just answer the question in logicaly.

If you haven't got an asnwer than don't suggest 'solutions' if you don't know what they mean or how they would work."

Nikshala
I know you probably love the symbol CCCC, there is no need to keep posting it all the time. It makes you look like a raving nationalist!

Then I am a raving nationalist.

B92 chopped up my last post and all that remains is MAYBE 20% of it.

Thats fine! Its irrelevent anyway. Im 25 and I have a job. I am not religious. Not by a long shot but I endorse anyone who followes religious rules. However, I with my health and blessing will not sit idlely by while Serbs in the South are suffering and dying. I was unable to do anything in 99 since I was 16 and overseas but NOW. Thats a different story.
These are my sentiments and of many people I know. Serbia is no longer in the 90's NOR is Russia.
CCCC

Nikshala,
the question you put to Kate is absurd given that what you are suggesting is the ripping up of the very foundations of the UN and all of it's sovereign member states and the Helsinki final Act. Such a scenario that you put forth would if applied globally would lead to a world of 5,000+ monoethnic entities if not more as I could equally on such a preposterous proposition declare indepdence in the UK since I am of a different ethnic origin from the nation state of my brith if you suggest deceide I do not wish to participate and integrate but segregated from it.

I'll use Blair's words from the begining of the year in relation to immigrants and offspring who are in the UK "conform to it"

If albanians declare independence,you can mark my word that, NATO would be begging Serbians for help and protection.For eight years now NATO and KFOR did nothing but help mafia get bigger and better.All the while they collected fat paychecks for turning blind eyes on the biggest crimes ever protected by international comunity.

KS - if you live in Kosovo, you are already living in Serbia :). Check your maps.

"Serbia had numerous occasions and opportunities to settle the 99 conflict peacfuly, but its not what they wanted. What they wanted was to get rid of Albanians from Kosovo, something that Milosevic personaly said to an internation diplomat, about how he is going to deal with albanians.

Do not fool yourself with conspiracy theories.

Serbia brought the NATO bombing on itself. - Nikshala"

Absolute tosh. These are the words taken from a high ranking British government minister - Lord Gilbert in the wake of the Goldstone Report conducted by the British government in the wake of the Kosovo War - and I quote from Lord Gilbert

"I think the terms put to Milošević at Rambouillet were absolutely intolerable; how could he possibly accept them; it was quite deliberate".

Now in the name of God, how the hell is that a conspiracy theory. It came from the man's mouth during a House of Commons enquiry Committee for all to hear.

Serbia actually signed up to the previous Paris agreement and the Federal Parliament stated that it would agree to the free passage of UN not NATO troops to pass and be stationed in its territory.

Operation Horsehoe - Potkova (the organised state sponsored expulsion of ethnic Albanians from Kosovo)that you allude to was later proven to be a fabrication by German intelligence as stated in the London Times newspaper in March 2000, hardly a bastion of radical left wing thinking.

The whole Kosovo war was one big lie, from the start right to the finish.

Maybe the people from my generation were right to try to go abroad.
Because if this is the voice of a modern Serbia, if this site (B92) and its visitors represent the future of my people, than I doubt that there is a future for any moderation or reason in Serbia.

When anyone who isn't immediately jumping with joy when violence is mentioned is immediately accused of not being a Serb, or of being 'a childish Albanian', then I think the world is actually right: a lot of our problems ARE cause by our own lack of maturity as a people.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle: Not all Serbs think like this. Unfortunately some of those that have extremist and violent attitudes are also very dominant and violent in expressing their opinions.

Personally I believe there was no reason to 'lose' Kosovo. But the actions of first Tito, then Milosevic caused a situation which is beyond repair. They lost Kosovo.

And I am going to make sure that my children or my children's children won't have to pay for the mistakes that were made in our name before. So let's move on. Divide Kosovo, make sure our heritage is protected.
Because at the end of the day, being a Serb is not anchored in Churches or ground. Being a Serb is in your veins and spirit.
Losing a piece of land means nothing. Losing your spirit, fighting amongst each other and against the voice of normality means that you're losing the essence of being Serbian.

Cvele

How old are you? Why would you fight for Kosovo? You don't live there, you family doesn't live there -you can join whoever you like, but I would advised you to find a job, and help Serbia. Do not waste you time on a lost battle. While I know you probably love the symbol CCCC, there is no need to keep posting it all the time. It makes you look like a raving nationalist!

Niall O'Doherty

Serbia had numerous occasions and opportunities to settle the 99 conflict peacfuly, but its not what they wanted. What they wanted was to get rid of Albanians from Kosovo, something that Milosevic personaly said to an internation diplomat, about how he is going to deal with albanians.

Do not fool yourself with conspiracy theories.

Serbia brought the NATO bombing on itself.

the point is that albanains were ready to accept supervised autonomy in 1999, but after all the atrocities that happened, and the fact that in the last 8 years we have realised what it is like to live free, its too late.

Harry,

"Only dictators can start meaningless and pointless wars,"

- I guess you include Bush and Blair in that list with regards to the Iraq War?

I agree Princip that it is far better to keep talking until a mutually acceptable solution is found, although the quicker the better.

Nikshala: "How do you expect to keep and convice 2 million people to remain within Serbia, who don't want that ever?"

They're going to stay there regardless, aren't they? And if there is any violence, which I'm sure most people don't want, then Nato will have to deal with it.

But who knows what will happen? Whatever the outcome, people just want to live peacefully, earn a fair salary and have a reasonable standard of living.

I doubt that anyone truly cares about what shape this takes, as long as it's done respectfully and peacefully.

Whether it's independence, partition or autonomy - if the status is accepted by the various leaders it will be accepted by the people.

Niall - great post about East Timor and very interesting, thanks. I also agree strongly with your comment about Rambouillet - spot on.
People seem to forget that the Serbian delegation actually signed up to the earlier Paris agreement; it was Nato which pushed for Rambouillet and the 'sign or be bombed' diktat.

Diplomacy had not been exhausted by any means. Appendix B was impossible to sign, as the US well knew.

Agim - I don't want to offend you, but if Kosovo is a province of Serbia, then Kosovo Albanians ARE technically Serbian Albanians (or Kosovo Albanians). Just like British Indians, or American Italians, or French Algerians.

And if it's independence of Kosovo which is really being sought, then why are you describing yourself as 'Albanian' rather than Kosovan? I would understand it if you wanted to be known as Kosovan Albanian, but why Albanian which is another national identity altogether?

It's Serbian land and if they declare independence then Serbia should send in it's forces to reclaim whats theirs. Don't worry about NATO, we have Russia, and maybe China.

wow wow so many nervous albanians in here!

albanians make threats on a daily basis. So why then when one Serbian politician makes a threat all hell brakes loose?

All he is saying is that Serbia is coming to free its territory from occupiers (nato+albanians). What's wrong with that?

"It is shame that Serbians have not learned from recent wars they’ve started and lost. Do you think that Albanians will wait for Serbian army with flowers? It was a different situation when you had Kosovo under control and all the ammunition left from the former Yugoslavia (which Kosovan paid for it as well)"

what a nonsense...

I´dont think that they will wait with flowers, but that is not relevant. in the end Serbia will liberate it´s territory from terrorist-elements, and afterwards all those peaceful Albanians who now do not dare to speak up because of the mafia-clans that rule down there... will be free and welcome to live peaceful and in secure together with all other ethnicities in the southern serbian province.

what is important to underline: Serbia has all the right to do it, if it turns out to be necessary. nobody coould blame Serbia at all!
isn´t that just great?

but it won´t happen, since even the US know that it wouldn´t serve their interest in the region...

so, let´s see what future brings!

it´s still time to come to reason, don´t waste that time my dear albanian friends ( and remember what happened to the Serbs in Croatia when they did not comply to a compromise...).

"Kosovo is not worth a single Serbian life. Split Kosovo, and the Serbian army can return to the north. But it is not worth fighting to bring back 2 million hostile Albanians under BG's rule."

Well, Serbian land might be worthless to you but its not to me. Even if Albanians three totaled 20 million, it would still be SERBIAN LAND. Frankly, I suspect that you are not a real Serb.

Unless they partition Kosovo , i think it will lead to open warfare again, this time potentially dragging Macedonia and Montenegro into the fray as everyone tries to grab land and declare sovereignty.

Not a good solution for the region.

To Princip: "Like I said any illegal declaration followed by illegal recognition immediatly invalidates 1244 and places the conflict back to 9th June 1999 - all NATO troops will be acting again without legality. We have already heard that the Germans and Swiss would immediatly pull out. The US are over streched in Iraq let alone Afghanistan - I think any sane person can understand now what Polt was meaning by his freudian slip; "

Princip, you have to understand that any action by any side is not based on the military capability of the moment but is rather based on the principles that each side goes by. In other words, Serbia will do whatever thinks it is right for Serbia and US and NATO will do whatever think it's a wise think to do. Your way of thinking goes more or less like: "If Serbia,(for the sake of argument) was capable to open few more hot spots in the planet so it could stretch US military even more, then NATO will bend to Serbia's request". You are totally wrong about this, and the independence of Kosovo is the only right thing to do. You and your government will try to look for loop-holes but at some extent you will give up sooner or later.

This is excellent news!
Every country would do everything in its powers to protect their territory, so shouldn't Serbia? Oh ya it's because of threats from america. But now at least we have Russia backing us.

Njazi - "I have addressed a simple question to Serbian posters five different times and never got an answer. The question was who will do what and how, in case (I am sure about it, maybe not in December but shortly after)Kosovo declares independence???"

You have received numerous answers to this already.

Here was one that I wrote on this same thread:

"... the mention of [Serbia] sending in troops is specificed as being ONLY if unilateral independence is declared and supported. If it is declared and NOT supported then the troops there already will be bound to deal with any ensuing violence.

"Any country would seal their borders and send in troops if there was a threat of annexing territory."

You can try and be as patronising as you like with your 'Lady Kate' and 'my dear', but it won't wash. My point is very clear, and I am sure that other posters will also be happy to answer your question again with their own thoughts.

Just a remainder to Kate, as follows: " East Timorians were not a majority in Indonesia, right", no more further coments on this issue from my side.
Also a message to all of you that constantly use the words, such as: "Breaking International law" , just a minor correction because most of you critised me that I am a bad speller. The proper way is: Violating International Law. Whenever I see those words I skip it and don't even bother to read what you guys wrotte.

Njazi, the most likely, if Albanian extremists declare independence, Kosovo will share the fate of "Kuzey Kibris", recognized only by Turkey and no one else.

Since 2004 Cyprus is part of EU, but northern part comprising 35% of territory is living in limbo, i.e. not part of EU although the entire Cyprus is.

The same will happen with "kosova".

EU priority is EU unity, based on the rule of law, not support to illegaly created narco-terrorist parastate.

It's is naive to believe that United States will come to the rescue, especially after Iraq fiasco. Democrats are building their political platform on attacking Republicans for deployment in Iraq. Believing they will deploy troops in limbo called "kosova" is not based on cold facts and solid reasoning.

To paraphrase Mr. Polt, "What if... you K-Albanians declare independence and no country pays any attention to it, like in 1990?".

Before December 10, there is November 4th. If Republicans lose, and K-Albanians declare independence a month later, Bush will not be in a position to deploy forces in December 10-January 20th time slot and half of KFOR will be out. Serbia has to do nothing but ask the remaining KFOR to come under Serbia's command or leave the province. Democrats will not be in the position to deploy forces either. You can fool the people once, but not all the time.

If Republicans win, they will have more pressing issues to settle before sending troops to Kosovo as their first assignment.

In this case, the rule of law is mightier than the sword. I understnad that this concept is unfamiliar to the good number of K-Albanians, but the quicker you adopt it, the better for all of us in the Balkans.

My comment seems to have been deleted for some reason, after being published. but anyway....


jovan, Nail, and other,

I do not need to see a video or read and article on some website. Unlike you, I experienced the war in 1999 myself, and I saw with my own eyes the crimes commited by serbs forces.

Are you trying to tell me that me and my family all of a sudden became paranoid, and 'imaginged' the serbs paramilitary coming to our neighbouhood, robbing us, beating me, and kicking us frm our home telling we have 5 mins to leave to Macedonia or Albania? And this happened in Prishtina, what happened in villiges was far far worse. We considered ourselves extremly lucky- considering my dad's friend was shot in his own house, because he had a photo of his son on the wall with an albanian flag on the backgroung (on the photo), who at the time was living in USA!

The son now is back in pristhina, but he is probably still 'imagining' that his dad is dead, or maybe he is alive but just hiding in the basement, just so we can blame the serbs!

To Kate,
It is true that I have received numerous answers to this already, but they were ambigous. I just wanted YOU to confirm them.
Princip,
First of all, let me clarify it to you. Yes, English (as well as German, Spanish, Serbian and Macedonian) is (are)secondary language(s). As far as my English skills are concerned (it shouldn't matter to you), rest assured that, eventhough I do not live in UK, I speak and understand (OR COMPREHEND)it perfectly (as a non native speaker, of course).
Yes, the penny has dropped, but not as you think or believe (or want to convince others here). I have accepted the best solution in the state I live in, but it is not called Serbia.If I could, honestly, I would help make Serbia better for its own people, as all the good neighbours should do.
My direct response to you is this: NO MORE JAW - JAW
You see, I wouldn't mind for negotiations to continue if there was even one tiny bitty chance that we would come close to a compromise, but as the last decade has proven there can be no reasoning with your past/present set of elected politicians. I mean when your Chief of Staff is taken aback by statements coming from hotheaded politicians about reclaiming Kosovo by military means, what do you think how do we feel about such statements?!
Bad vibes my friend with the memory of war still fresh in our minds.
I am a family man and I have a child. For her sake, I will do everything in my power to make sure that Serbian army never sets foot again in Kosovo. This sentiment and determiantion is shared by all the Albs (not only in Kosovo)throughout the world.
If Serbia is so worried and concerned about a possible breach of intl laws by Kosovo declaring independence, why does it not step up and recognize it by her own free will?
Or better yet, why would they not opt for negotiations (there were negotiations for the last two years) without prejudices about the final outcome?, smth like "if nothing that Serbia has to offer will be acceptable to K-Albs, than we will consider to accept Kosovo as an independent country under these conditions."
This very sensitive issue for all of us in Balkans was never put like this, now was it?
To Mr. Petrovich,
Sir, we do not have to believe, or wait, for USA or other countries to help us defend ourselves. If the worst comes to worst we will manage. For your information Sir, Kosovo is not a narco- terrorist parastate as you call it. I have to addmit that we still have a lot to do to improve our country, but we will get there.
But for the sake of argument concerning USA policies; it was the democrats who lead the air campaign against Serbian army eight years ago, and Bush has only reiterated what the democrats have started. Kosovo is not Iraq nor Cyprus,and as such can not be compared to Middle East crisis (or other hot spots for that matter). Anyways, my point is that Kosovo issue is the only constant thing in the american foreign policy, regardless of who runs the country.
To Niall O'Doherty,
If Kosovo war was a lie, please come to Kosovo and Serbia and explain to thousands of dead and buried people that their act is over and that they can start living again.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

The threat of deploying military into Kosovo is as empty as a threat can be. If Serbia moves even just a single jeep towards Kosovo the mighty US will frown and the serbs will back off.

Furthermore, in the article itself you can clearly see the contradiction between two fractions of the government. The military cannot take any action without the president order and Tadic, just like Jeremic are against any such action even in the form of threat.

First of all, there will be no war. This rests on the assumption VS will be able, and willing, to mobilize. It also rests on the assumption VS can get anywhere and hold anything, particularly south of the Ibar. It also rests on the assumption KFOR will not intercept. At the absolute least, a unilateral declaration followed by US recognition may result in the VS reaching the northern banks of the Ibar and halting at Mitrovica, but there will be nothing done in the south.
Europe may even acquiesce to this is light of giving Serbia "something".

Second, threats of war are no different sabre rattling than threats of unilateral declarations of independence. Both sides realize they need to be strong in the face of obstacles and need to reassure their publics they will do everything possible to reach their goals. Saying Serbia will use force is a way of telling the negotiators to take their positions seriously at the barganing table, just as Ceku's constant reminder that he will unilaterally declare Kosovo's independence come 12:01 AM December 11.

Some Albanians commenters here have likened Serbia to a spoiled child, threatening a temper tantrum if it doesn't get its way. That's not too far from what we've been hearing from Pristina these last few months too. It's time the US, Europe, and Russia stepped in as the Great Powers they supposedly are, and take greater control of the matter to avoid such extreme threats on both sides from manifesting.

Ahmet - I can guarantee that the phrase 'breaking international law' is perfectly acceptable in English.

'Violating' international law means the same thing in that context, although can also be used in different contexts, such as: "Why would you violate my language?"

Hardly being a polyglot myself, I am respectful of anyone who can speak more than one language (I can speak a few pretty badly).

But unless you are very fluent I wouldn't start refusing to read comments by others on the grounds that they upset your grammatical sensibilities!

Kate,

I agree with your comment to Njazi who clearly does not seem to fully comprehend English but then I guess it is not his/her first languange so that is excusable.

Let me also be explicit in answer once more this is a Scenario based on the Polt "What if...." and following such abrupt acts as ILLEGAL declarations that firstly the UNMIK administration is obliged to immediatly annul and recall the local PISG who make it. Secondly if the US who help formulate and sign 1244 acted so abruptly so as to ILLEGALLY recognise it would by it's abrupt action nullify Kumanovo agreement and 1244 and it would be the US who will have sent the region back to the 9th of June at which point Serbia will be obliged to ensure it's territorial integrity which is maintained by 1244. If the US wish to ripp up UN SC resolutions in such an agressive nature then they cannot expect Serbia not to react. Beyond that in recent days it has become evident that NATO would immediatly withdraw given that such a SCENARIO and agressive action by the US would remove their legitamacy. Serbia is stating what is the inevitable consequences of such a scenario that the US have clarly not thought through - surely it is better that Serbia set off the alarm bells to this inevitable calamity so that a real and 'negotiated compromise' is found as an alternative?

Surely it is better for the jaw-jaw to continue even beyond 10th December if no compromise is found?

Surely the penny has dropped that the best solution is accepting the state your in and working to make Serbia better for all its people?

How about some direct responses from you Njazi?

"Education Minister Zoran Lončar has today repeated that Serbia will nullify any act pertaining to Kosovo independence. He added that he would never accept the creation of the first NATO state. "



Good for you man. Don't ever accept it. Stay a cool nationalist!!

Princip do not try and avoid answering the question - its very simple -how would it work????

Also the difference is that, you volentarely or not moved to UK, and you or your parents were immigrants, whereas the K. Albanians are NOT. My .......great great great gradnfather was born in Kosovo, my great great grandfather was born in Kosovo, my great grandfather was born in Kosovo, my grandfather was born in Kosovo, my father was born in Kosovo, and so was I.

Do not believe your ridicuolus history books that all albanians moved to Kosovo after WW2 during Tito. Of course they are going to say that, how else would they explain the illegal occupation of Kosovo and 'justify' the killings.

If that was the case my grandad who is 85,would have been born in Albania and would have an Albania accent which is quite different to Kosovan one. But he clearly knows where he was born, and his family were born.

So I can't really see what you tried to compare there. Its more of wishful thinking in you part. You being in UK, you have the opportunity to read from various unbiased sources, please do so.

albanians will be gratefull to your politicians for the embargo!
that what vetevendosja asked for a few month ago:boycoot of serbian products!
i tell you ,albanians don't have to bother,serbs will do the job for us!
don't worry,be happy!

"They're going to stay there regardless, aren't they? And if there is any violence, which I'm sure most people don't want, then Nato will have to deal with it. " (Kate)

Wow, by FORCE. What an answer, now thats what I call democracy!!

But hey, it doesn't matter if people die, as long as we stay clear from Kate's and Princip's international law!

Nikshala - Of course it matters MOST OF ALL that innocent people don't die. That was always the biggest issue.

Thoughts on the subject:

1. Miloshevic is alive and well, thanks to his successors.

2. Serbia = democratic, yet largest party threatens with acts of war.

Do I want to live in Serbia?
Absolutely NOT. I love how Serbia is continually beginning to shut itself even more, isolate, and self-destruct.

I didn't read not even 10% of people's posts so I hope I'm not reiterating what someone else may have said.

KS - if you live in Kosovo, you are already living in Serbia :). Check your maps.
(Dragan, 6. September 2007 20:38)

Correction I live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, therefore I don't live in Serbia. The Kosovars that live in Kosova don't live in SERBIA.

The Kosovar-Serbs that live in rooms smaller than a box in belgrade live in Serbia.

Get it through your head, none of the 2,400,000 Kosovars want to join Kosova with Serbia. Greater Serbia is dead, it never will be.

-97

Mr. Petrovich,

US doesn't need to deploy troops in Kosovo after it recognizes Kosovo independence. If it does it will be only for humanitarian purpose continuing the KFOR mission.

However, if Serbia sends even a single soldier to Kosovo without Kosovo government consent, that will considered a provocation and will take only few F-18s flying over Belgrade to make Serbia pull its claws back from Kosovo.

Do you get the picure now!

In other words, (if B92 didn't post my last comment) if the Albanians in southern Serbia, (KosovO)or for that matter all of Serbia, don't want anything to do with Serbia, then leave. No one is forcing them to stay. That's how we say it in america, "if you don't like it here, then LEAVE!" CCCC

I just started reading this post and I can't believe what i'm reading! Nikshala are you serious! You talk and talk but I really can't find anything except empty words. You answer me one question...why have over one hundred Serbian churches been burned or vandalized or destroyed in Kosovo since 1999? Please give me an answer...and you feel you have the right to independence? Why cause you are a majority? Then why weren't you crying for the Krajina Serbs when they were a majority and wanted the same self-determination? Why? Why didn't you cry human rights during operation storm and the right to self -governance? Please answer me why Serbian children can't walk to school in Kosovo? And don't say cause of all the crimes commited by Serbian forces...no doubt there were crime on all sides in cluding NATO, but Albanians in Kosovo have been planning independence long long before you were born and were just waiting for the right moment to try and realize it. Waiting for your answers...

"Operation Horsehoe - Potkova (the organised state sponsored expulsion of ethnic Albanians from Kosovo)that you allude to was later proven to be a fabrication by German intelligence as stated in the London Times newspaper in March 2000, hardly a bastion of radical left wing thinking.

The whole Kosovo war was one big lie, from the start right to the finish."
(Niall O'Dohery, Ireland, 6. September 2007 23:24)

Niall,
in croatian it is "Potkova", if there was such a plan it would have had the name "Potkovica", how it is written correctly in serbian.

that´s just another indication that shows how amateur-like those german secret-service-dudes have been working...

that information and a lot more you can find in a documentary made by WDR, a german tv-station, " It started with a Lie" available on google-video.

enjoy!

if you dare to see the truth, just watch this film. afterwards you will probably say the serbian secret service has produced that documentary, and those Albanians in that film are serbian agents.

Rocky

I can assure that whatever I have said is true. If you choose not to believe it, than thats fine, but like I said, unlike some people who comment here, most of K. albanians have personaly exprienced the war in 1999. And we KNOW what happened, because we've seen it.

I didnt cry bout operation strom or the serbs in Krajina, because at the time I was a youngteenager, and didn't really know what was happening.

Personally I do not know all the facts about Krajina or operation storm, and I like to know all the facts and all sides of the story before I form an opinion on something. I am not defending what happenedin in Krajina, and I did not even mention it. But what happened in Croatia or Bosnia, is irrelevant to what happened in Kosovo, that I know a lot about.

Yes, serbian churches have been vanadalised and I condem those crimes it was wrong.

The security situation of serbs in Kosovo, is not as bad as people think or make it out to be. But it still need improving. And I do feel sorry for the situation of the K. Serbs in south of Iber. But you have to remeber that it has only beend 8 years since the end of the war, and it takes much longer for trust and complete tolerance to build between two communites.

And serbs in the North are not tolerant at all. Thats a no go area for albanians. Two weeks ago a bus was attacked with a granade carrying albanains going to visit their homes in the North. But I bet you didn't hear about that.

The reason for independence, is because its the only solution that would work on the ground. Unless you want the suffering of Kosovan citizens to continue for decades.

The aim of K.albanians, has always been to be free and rule themselves, and not by serbs, turks, croatians, bulgarians or whever. During Yugoslavia what we wanted was to be equal as others.

The aim of Serbia in the last century, has always been to get rid of albanian population. There are numrous documents written by serbs themeselves that claims this.

Rocky, I don't really see the point you were trying to make. Do not blame Kosovo for things that happened in Croatia. and if you have any real argumtent or facts that prove that my words are empty, please lay them out.

Addressed to all thatbuse the term'serb albanians", there is no such a thing and will never be. empty threats mean nothing to us anymore and even if they are real we are ready to deal with anything, but are YOU ready?

"I with my health and blessing will not sit idlely by while Serbs in the South are suffering and dying. I was unable to do anything in 99 since I was 16 and overseas but NOW. Thats a different story."

Wow Cvele, don't forget to put on your hunting hat when you come and fight for Kosovo. Just remember, it's not hunting season. Anyway, those that talk too much, lack in actions. I would suggest you start by joining the "Guard Lazar" or whatever their name is.

miri

"but if Kosovo is a province of Serbia, then Kosovo Albanians ARE technically Serbian Albanians (or Kosovo Albanians). Just like British Indians, or American Italians, or French Algerians. "

Kate, here it is where you views are so skewed.

Albanians are not immigrants in Serbia's land. They are the righful owners of Kosovo.
Your tactics divert from the truth.

Last thought, doesn't declaring war on an entire ethnicity STEP on INT LAW?

When Kosova spells out Independence who is Serbia going to fight? KFOR or the Kosovar people? Last time I checked Kosova doesn't have an army.

Again, international law huh?

Get it through your head, none of the 2,400,000 Kosovars want to join Kosova with Serbia.

from 1 milion Albanians, then 2milions... now ..2,400,000... tell me how you can be so many in just 8years?

'Prince Lazar' wrote: "Frankly, I suspect that you are not a real Serb."

Of course, because someone who doesn't want to run to Kosovo with a Kalashnikov automatically is 'no real Serb'?
Pathetic statement, and I guess that you, like many others that make check warmongering statements here, have not served any time in the army during the '90s. You would talk differently.

But wait, maybe you're right: I also don't like sarma and prefer Coca Cola over Rakija. And I really really hate Velja Ilic and don't sign my postings here with CCCC.
So yes, I suppose I'm not a Serb.
I'm glad Prince Lazar cleared that up for me.

to that quite childish comment by an albanian writer:

real Serbs are calling for respect of international rules, laws and treaties, something real Albanians seem to be very eager to breach!

if Serbia is offering ( internationally supervised ) broad autonomy, your statements about "Serbia wishing to run Kosovo with a Kalashnikhov" sound quite desperately unimaginative!

come on, don´t you have something with more weight? I mean...some real arguments?

once again, I ask myself WHO is actually getting nervous here, is it the Serbs ( how some smart Albanians would like to sell us here ) or couldn´t it be quite the opposite?

Naill Doherty

Unlike you who has never set foot in Kosovo, I was there during the war, and i know exactly how much of a 'lie' it was. Are you saying that me and my family we 'imagine' the serbs paramilitaries robbing us, beating me, and kicking us from our home?

I do not need to read papers, since I seen the serbian crime with my own eyes.

You should do the same. Come to Kosovo, maybe you'll learn something!

ACA, we would have been 3 million for sure if wasn't for the murdering, killing, and expelling Kosovars.

Where do you think those Turkian-Albanians came from?
They came from fleeing Kosova.

BTW if Kosova has 1 million people and there is a 5% Kosovar-Serbian minority than that means the total of Kosovar-Serbs is 50,000 total.

But never mind that, I guess after the war over 1.4 million Albanians from Albanian moved to Kosova, right? That's why Albania has the same population it had 9 years ago; much higher actually.

Niall O'Dohery
The whole Kosovo war was one big lie, from the start right to the finish.
(Niall O'Dohery, Ireland, 6. September 2007 23:24)

Yes you are right and over milion people expelled from their homes were out on picnic and over 10 thousand dead persons just commited massive suicide and Nato intervened just for sight seeing in Kosovo.
What a comment i would understand if you base anything on facts about daily politics and various titles posted here for commentrs, but saying that there was no war it was a lie, it's really beyond the being human
I feel sorry for you and I just hope you never have any power whatsoever wherever you may be.

Wow, I am astonished by Niall O'Dohery's comment.

According to him, the Kosovo War was a big lie - that is, a fabrication.

I have never come across such delusional train of thought before. It is people like him that also believe the holocaust never happened, or like he likes to call it: 'a big lie'.

Prorokovich is only BARKING with the rest of the Pro-Miloshevich's DSS and Radical Party TEAM.

Njazi,

hey I was just suggesting that you did not comprehend seeing as you had had numerous responses - surely you should have just spelled it out to Kate that way in the first place such as;

Kate, I have had numerous answers over this question and I would like your opinion...

- I think this would have a been a better way of putting the question.

Beyond that I sincerely hope for all of Serbia's citizens irrespective of ethnicity that what you suggest does not happen since "when the jaw-jaw stops" as the saying goes "war-war starts". I have said it before that it is the worst case scenario and the last thing the region needs.

Respecting Serbia's continued sovereignity does not mean tragic events for future generations but is about reconciliation and building the trust amongst all in Serbia that the region requires. In fact many thousands of Serbian Albanians form the province very much value the benefits of Serbian insitutions - why else do they renew their passports? Building artificial walls and barriers will mean even greater instability for the future when the next generation grow up and possibly before then so it really is important that the talks continue until a "negotiated compromise" is found the alternative is not worth contemplating.

Serbia has no longer got the military strengh to fight wars. If it attacked Kosovo it would lose more than it bargained for. These statements are just provocative and senseless. Only dictators can start meaningless and pointless wars,as far as I know serbia is a relative democracy. It is a non starter. Kosovo should be an independent state with the Serbian populated parts having autonomy and their own government,a bit like the Bosnian entities.

"It is shame that Serbians have not learned from recent wars they’ve started and lost. Do you think that Albanians will wait for Serbian army with flowers? It was a different situation when you had Kosovo under control and all the ammunition left from the former Yugoslavia (which Kosovan paid for it as well). Believe me, every single Albanian knows how bad it is being under Serbian boots, so if you got guts to try do something stupid, wait and see."
Well said Alb!!

See also the comments of Princip and Kate. I see already the probability of the Serbs taking some foolish actions and get hit hard again. Do they need to be hit in evey decade to get to their senses?

You'd think Serbia (Milosevic-type politicians) would learn their lesson once. every war theu have started in the last 17 years, they have lost. Do you want to get bombed again?

The actions of politicans like these guys (DSS) have caused catastrophic damage to the whole of Balkans. Before the wars in 90s the ex-YU countries were the most developed in the region. before the wars people from Kosovo and rest of YU could go to countries like Bulgaria with one week's wages with the whole family, and live there like a king! People could travel to most countries whithout Visas.

17 years later even Romania and Bulgaria are in EU, whereas Serbia and Kosovo and other ex-YU have become the poorest in the region.

Are you still not satisfied with the damage you have caused? If one person did what he wanted, including military actions and everything else, was Milosevic, and look were it got him and where it got Serbia! This guy and the rest of DSS are idiots.

Trade embargo and sealing the border as long as they are on the side of serbia proper, they can do thatnow but marching inside KosovA is a dream that will never come true.
Actually if they seal the border between KosovA and serbia proper will be the best thing for both sides untill serbia matures.

It is shame that Serbians have not learned from recent wars they’ve started and lost. Do you think that Albanians will wait for Serbian army with flowers? It was a different situation when you had Kosovo under control and all the ammunition left from the former Yugoslavia (which Kosovan paid for it as well). Believe me, every single Albanian knows how bad it is being under Serbian boots, so if you got guts to try do something stupid, wait and see.
With this threatening I can conclude that your politicians do not care at all about fellow Serbs in Kosova. All they care about is their position and being in the power through creating problems.
If your politicians had any common sense, by now you would have been in EU and had better standards…
In the former Yugoslavia when kosovan Albanians stressed their concerned on what Serbia is trying to do, you rushed into removing even the basic rights a human being can have. Now you are trying to fool us, with some Autonomy and some “extensive rights”.
Unfortunately now it is too late, you can promise us the world, but you have failed to convince Albanians (even other nations) to deliver.
I hope Dušan Proroković is one of those soldiers that is going to come to Kosova.

Serb forces are not welcomed in Kosova. But if that happens, I will join immediatly to K-Albanian units, to fight these Serbian forces. During last war, I was reporter and Human Rights Activist.

Kate

International community suggested autonomy in 1999 in Rambuliet, which the albanian side accepte to stop the bloodshed, but Belgrade was too cocky and they were too busy singing! now its too late.

How do you mean Serbia is willing to compromise? Autonomy is least they can offer by any kind of moral or international law, expesially since Kosovo did have a quite extensive autonomy - which we all now was revoked. Now if today Serbia had very different, mature and responsible politicians, to what it had in the 90s, than maybe you would have had a point, although I doubt we would accepted it anyway. However considering more than 60% of Serbia's popualtion voted for parties like Radicals and DSS, I am afraid your offer of autonomy means nothing.

MLKG made a very good point - its very easy for people like you Kate, Dragan, Prinicip to advocate use of threats, since you live abroad, put many people of Serbia are against it. If you don't believe me, go read the comments on the serbian verison of the site.

Kate you are suggesting autonomy as 'compromise', but we albanians are saying thats not enough, its too late, for the reasons that everybody knows by now. How do you expect to keep and convice 2 million people to remain within Serbia, who don't want that ever? How? Ignore you usual respone 'internatinal law' 'illegal', but just answer the question in logicaly.

If you haven't got an asnwer than don't suggest 'solutions' if you don't know what they mean or how they would work.

Niall O'Doherty

Serbia had numerous occasions and opportunities to settle the 99 conflict peacfuly, but its not what they wanted. What they wanted was to get rid of Albanians from Kosovo, something that Milosevic personaly said to an internation diplomat, about how he is going to deal with albanians.

Do not fool yourself with conspiracy theories.

Serbia brought the NATO bombing on itself.

the point is that albanains were ready to accept supervised autonomy in 1999, but after all the atrocities that happened, and the fact that in the last 8 years we have realised what it is like to live free, its too late.

"I with my health and blessing will not sit idlely by while Serbs in the South are suffering and dying. I was unable to do anything in 99 since I was 16 and overseas but NOW. Thats a different story."

Wow Cvele, don't forget to put on your hunting hat when you come and fight for Kosovo. Just remember, it's not hunting season. Anyway, those that talk too much, lack in actions. I would suggest you start by joining the "Guard Lazar" or whatever their name is.

miri

Like I said any illegal declaration followed by illegal recognition immediatly invalidates 1244 and places the conflict back to 9th June 1999 - all NATO troops will be acting again without legality. We have already heard that the Germans and Swiss would immediatly pull out. The US are over streched in Iraq let alone Afghanistan - I think any sane person can understand now what Polt was meaning by his freudian slip;

"What if..."

It is a natural reaction to defend ones sovereignity - the UK sent it's troops 8,000 miles to protects it soverignity over the Falkland Islands - I guess Serbia has every right to suggest the same under such a scenario and clearly are making it's position heard to ensure the jaw-jaw continues after 10th December if there is no compromise. The region does not need such a scenario to be followed - irrespective of the US wish to continue on such a path and I think the Europeans are quietly ensuring the message is filtered through to those who threaten illegal actions!

Hahaha

its quite funny how the very people who have been preaching against threats of violence here for the last few months (Kate, Prinicp, etc..), all of the sudden support the threat of violence and force coming from Serbia! Talk about hipocrisy.

Kate suggest that albanians HAVE to accept that independence is off the table! Or what? are we to expect more of these threats? Even is Serbia threated to lauch a nuclear bomb or whatever, it would not deter the albanians from independence.

Serbia and Kate's position are ridicuous, they say they are willing to compromise but only if its autonomy!!! What kind of compromise is thats, since the least Serbia can offer is autonomy anyway? So basicaly they are saying that they will not compromise or move from their original position which is autonomy.

Once Serbian govemernt realsies that autonomy is off the table, than a compormise solution can be found.

Kate the problem for you in not the 'provinical goverment of Kosovo', but the 2 million albanians in Kosovo who detest the idea of having any kind of link with Serbia.

Ridiculous statement by one of Kostunica's lackeys.
Let these people send their own children to fight for Kosovo. Not mine, Not yours.
And unlike the Serbs that are safely commenting from London, Chicago or wherever, I despise the thought of violence. Even as a threat it doesn't work.
Kosovo is not worth a single Serbian life. Split Kosovo, and the Serbian army can return to the north. But it is not worth fighting to bring back 2 million hostile Albanians under BG's rule.

You are right nikshala. It is really strange how some people( Kate, Princip) in this site find Serbia threatening with violence acceptable while on the other hand when Kosovars say that they will use any the means to protect their freedom threatening to security in Europe. My opinion is that Serbia has more than once not only threatened, but destabilized the region and severely endangered the security of Europe.

As well, I don’t understand who is this failed politician threatening and what with. NATO is here to react against any violence, Princip u remember No Violence = NATO will act.
Even if NATO leaves who is going to come to Kosova to support and satisfy the ideological blunders of the failed Serbian politicians. Serbians are sick of living a dogs life as suggested by these failed politicians, housewife’s, pensioner and some of you here.
Actually there is something that this failed politicians can do. I would suggest they look after their population that are tired of the life that they are being offered. As well, accept Serbs form Krajina and Kosova as equal citizens of Serbia not second class citizens since they are the victims of the failed Serbian politics based on myths, politics that some of you are in favour of revival.

Ofcourse B92 refused to post my simple and direct comments. I simply said nothing different then that of BEHAR. If there is a war, I will join the volunteers and thats it.

I personally hope for no war, and am 100% against it. But right is right and albans are wrong.


CCCC

Cvele

How old are you? Why would you fight for Kosovo? You don't live there, you family doesn't live there -you can join whoever you like, but I would advised you to find a job, and help Serbia. Do not waste you time on a lost battle. While I know you probably love the symbol CCCC, there is no need to keep posting it all the time. It makes you look like a raving nationalist!

Kate

Since you seem on the mood for answering questions, asnwer mine.

"Kate you are suggesting autonomy as 'compromise', but we albanians are saying thats not enough, its too late, for the reasons that everybody knows by now. How do you expect to keep and convice 2 million people to remain within Serbia, who don't want that ever? How? Ignore you usual respone 'internatinal law' 'illegal', but just answer the question in logicaly.

If you haven't got an asnwer than don't suggest 'solutions' if you don't know what they mean or how they would work."

Princip do not try and avoid answering the question - its very simple -how would it work????

Also the difference is that, you volentarely or not moved to UK, and you or your parents were immigrants, whereas the K. Albanians are NOT. My .......great great great gradnfather was born in Kosovo, my great great grandfather was born in Kosovo, my great grandfather was born in Kosovo, my grandfather was born in Kosovo, my father was born in Kosovo, and so was I.

Do not believe your ridicuolus history books that all albanians moved to Kosovo after WW2 during Tito. Of course they are going to say that, how else would they explain the illegal occupation of Kosovo and 'justify' the killings.

If that was the case my grandad who is 85,would have been born in Albania and would have an Albania accent which is quite different to Kosovan one. But he clearly knows where he was born, and his family were born.

So I can't really see what you tried to compare there. Its more of wishful thinking in you part. You being in UK, you have the opportunity to read from various unbiased sources, please do so.

Get it through your head, none of the 2,400,000 Kosovars want to join Kosova with Serbia.

from 1 milion Albanians, then 2milions... now ..2,400,000... tell me how you can be so many in just 8years?

Nikshala: "Serbia and Kate's position are ridicuous"

Yeah, me and Serbia just came up with something over lunch! Foor goodness sake, Nikshala, I am just voicing my own thoughts.

Serbia IS compromising by offering a very high level of autonomy. As I've said before, this is not an even playing field, because Kosovo is currently part of Serbia's territory.

Of course the Kosovo Albanians need a high level of self governance, but they are not a majority within Serbia, only within one province. Therefore they can't just dictate the right to take the territory.

I understand that this thinking was encouraged because the Bush administration and certain EU countries thought that they could just go ahead and chop off some land to hand to an ethnic group. But, no, they can't. It goes against all legal principles in the world... there has to be an agreement, hence compromise.

If a compromise of some kind can't be found, everyone will lose out.

And for the record, I am not in favour of threats of violence at all. But I can understand why these have been made because of the reasons I mentioned before. You can't have it all ways. If threats of violence are used for political gain by one side, then the other is bound to deal the same card.

To all the posters,
None of us is in such a position to state as a fact what will the final outcome be.
I have addressed a simple question to Serbian posters five different times and never got an answer. The question was who will do what and how, in case (I am sure about it, maybe not in December but shortly after)Kosovo declares independence???
All I have heard so far is silence.
So I can interpret it this way:
Serbs think (and actualy count on this), that they will be able to impose their will on Albs through military means, eventhough they claim that they are against violence and want to grant us a "better life" within Serbia (I know what that would be, and no, thank you very much I am not interested).
Lady Kate,
You keep saying that there should be a mutual solution to this issue, but there simply isn't any.
Then again you say that K-Albs should do this in order for BG to grant us a few rights. We don't need your guidance to tell us what we need to do to appease Serbia, for the simple reason that we simply don't care what Serbia has to say over this issue.
Your post is self explanatory in it self "Lets hope that a solution will be found to avert any violence by any group. But in order for this to happen..."
No my dear, it should have been said NO VIOLENCE AT ANY COST whether from Albs or Serbs.
Albs will not start any violence since there is no reason for them to do so, since there aren't any threats to us, but in case the Serbian army decides to cross the border things would be different.
Don't you agree???
You guys talk constantly about intl law and order, but if that means that to abide to that intl law and order there is a chance to go through hell (last war in Kosovo)we don't care about it anymore. We are sick and tired of double standards.
Give me some reasonable arguments why would we negotiate something that we already have???
God bless you all.
BTW,I still have Serbian neighbours living two houses down the street where I live, and I don't hate any of you as you might percieve frof this post.
Everything stated above is only an opinion of mine and a possible scenario.
To b92:
Please try to post this post as it is for the sake of argument, but if it might be percieved as an offence or derogatory to your posters, edit or delete it completely.
Thank you for giving us a means to interact with each other.

To Princip: "Like I said any illegal declaration followed by illegal recognition immediatly invalidates 1244 and places the conflict back to 9th June 1999 - all NATO troops will be acting again without legality. We have already heard that the Germans and Swiss would immediatly pull out. The US are over streched in Iraq let alone Afghanistan - I think any sane person can understand now what Polt was meaning by his freudian slip; "

Princip, you have to understand that any action by any side is not based on the military capability of the moment but is rather based on the principles that each side goes by. In other words, Serbia will do whatever thinks it is right for Serbia and US and NATO will do whatever think it's a wise think to do. Your way of thinking goes more or less like: "If Serbia,(for the sake of argument) was capable to open few more hot spots in the planet so it could stretch US military even more, then NATO will bend to Serbia's request". You are totally wrong about this, and the independence of Kosovo is the only right thing to do. You and your government will try to look for loop-holes but at some extent you will give up sooner or later.

The threat of deploying military into Kosovo is as empty as a threat can be. If Serbia moves even just a single jeep towards Kosovo the mighty US will frown and the serbs will back off.

Furthermore, in the article itself you can clearly see the contradiction between two fractions of the government. The military cannot take any action without the president order and Tadic, just like Jeremic are against any such action even in the form of threat.

One wonders what effect would a trade embargo have on Kosovo. Todate, it is true that billions of Albanian euros end up in Serbia via a huge trade imbalance. A trade embargo would make sure that those loads of cash would go straight to Albania.

And you can be sure Serbia wont be able to block that part of Kosovo's border.

So bring it on Belgrade. You're our best chance to the realization of "Greater Albania"

Just a remainder to Kate, as follows: " East Timorians were not a majority in Indonesia, right", no more further coments on this issue from my side.
Also a message to all of you that constantly use the words, such as: "Breaking International law" , just a minor correction because most of you critised me that I am a bad speller. The proper way is: Violating International Law. Whenever I see those words I skip it and don't even bother to read what you guys wrotte.

Serbia has no longer got the military strengh to fight wars. If it attacked Kosovo it would lose more than it bargained for. These statements are just provocative and senseless. Only dictators can start meaningless and pointless wars,as far as I know serbia is a relative democracy. It is a non starter. Kosovo should be an independent state with the Serbian populated parts having autonomy and their own government,a bit like the Bosnian entities.

I agree Princip that it is far better to keep talking until a mutually acceptable solution is found, although the quicker the better.

Nikshala: "How do you expect to keep and convice 2 million people to remain within Serbia, who don't want that ever?"

They're going to stay there regardless, aren't they? And if there is any violence, which I'm sure most people don't want, then Nato will have to deal with it.

But who knows what will happen? Whatever the outcome, people just want to live peacefully, earn a fair salary and have a reasonable standard of living.

I doubt that anyone truly cares about what shape this takes, as long as it's done respectfully and peacefully.

Whether it's independence, partition or autonomy - if the status is accepted by the various leaders it will be accepted by the people.

Niall - great post about East Timor and very interesting, thanks. I also agree strongly with your comment about Rambouillet - spot on.
People seem to forget that the Serbian delegation actually signed up to the earlier Paris agreement; it was Nato which pushed for Rambouillet and the 'sign or be bombed' diktat.

Diplomacy had not been exhausted by any means. Appendix B was impossible to sign, as the US well knew.

Agim - I don't want to offend you, but if Kosovo is a province of Serbia, then Kosovo Albanians ARE technically Serbian Albanians (or Kosovo Albanians). Just like British Indians, or American Italians, or French Algerians.

And if it's independence of Kosovo which is really being sought, then why are you describing yourself as 'Albanian' rather than Kosovan? I would understand it if you wanted to be known as Kosovan Albanian, but why Albanian which is another national identity altogether?

albanians will be gratefull to your politicians for the embargo!
that what vetevendosja asked for a few month ago:boycoot of serbian products!
i tell you ,albanians don't have to bother,serbs will do the job for us!
don't worry,be happy!

"They're going to stay there regardless, aren't they? And if there is any violence, which I'm sure most people don't want, then Nato will have to deal with it. " (Kate)

Wow, by FORCE. What an answer, now thats what I call democracy!!

But hey, it doesn't matter if people die, as long as we stay clear from Kate's and Princip's international law!

"but if Kosovo is a province of Serbia, then Kosovo Albanians ARE technically Serbian Albanians (or Kosovo Albanians). Just like British Indians, or American Italians, or French Algerians. "

Kate, here it is where you views are so skewed.

Albanians are not immigrants in Serbia's land. They are the righful owners of Kosovo.
Your tactics divert from the truth.

Wow, I am astonished by Niall O'Dohery's comment.

According to him, the Kosovo War was a big lie - that is, a fabrication.

I have never come across such delusional train of thought before. It is people like him that also believe the holocaust never happened, or like he likes to call it: 'a big lie'.

I guess the Saber Rattling has started. If one side can threatened unrest what not the other. Looks like KFOR will redeploy. Now let's us not say "oh the USA will not let nothing like that happen. Remember it was democrats who lauch the Airstrikes not Republicans. So if B92 publish this comment i am sure all kinds of comments will be back.

I don't blame them for coming out with this. It's a shame, but by seemingly bending to the threats of violence by the Albanians in Kosovo the 'international community' has sent a message that if they are afraid of violence they will back down. Hopefully this is now changing with diplomatic efforts being taken more seriously, but this will act as a safeguard/ warning of sorts.

I also notice that the mention of sending in troops is specificed as being ONLY if unilateral independence is declared and supported. If it declared and NOT supported then the troops there already will be bound to deal with any ensuing violence.

Any country would seal their borders and send in troops if there was a threat of annexing territory. Kosovo may see itself as being independent already but that is not the case legally or officially.

Lets hope that a solution will be found to avert any violence by any group. But in order for this to happen, the Kosovan provincial government has to accept that independence is off the table and another solution has to be found.

This will only happen if the US supports the EU and Russian views that BOTH sides must agree to some sort of compromise.

It doesn't suit anyone to be in limbo and discussions must be seriously promoted. If status is to be discussed then the Kosovan government must drop their 'we will walk out if status other than independence is mentioned'.

The west is beginning to understand the territorial issue defined in 1244 and will be breaking an international law if it goes against it. A properly negotiated settlement is the only sensible way forward.

However, 1244 does fall if independence is declared - in all of its content. Non-violent (unarmed) reoccupation of Kosovo by Serbian troops would actually have to be defended by NATO - no need to fight!

However, these thought experiments are not what is needed - sensible cooperation between the parties is what is required.

Kate - very well said and I agree completely.
One thing Mr. Prorokovic forgot to add is that if certain states bypass the UN and unilaterally recognize greater albania, Bosnian Serbs will immediately declare independence and join Serbia. Serbian troops will also be deployed in Republika Srpska, as well as in Kosovo. Russia will support Serbia in both these endeavours. The US/UK can't have its cake and eat it too, and they need to know if they go ahead with their crazy plans, there will be a domino effect in the Balkans and around the world. You may as well use international law documents as toilet paper if this were to happen.

If the albanians declare independence and gets support from a NATO country then the Kumanovo technical agreement that ended the war will no longer be in effect meaning the serb army and police have every right to enter the Kosovo province. Legally.

I don't think NATO will fight a ground war on the basis of illegitimate and illegal land grab and against a democratic country in Europe.

If not a compromise is reached then I believe there will be troubles ahead.

First of all, there will be no war. This rests on the assumption VS will be able, and willing, to mobilize. It also rests on the assumption VS can get anywhere and hold anything, particularly south of the Ibar. It also rests on the assumption KFOR will not intercept. At the absolute least, a unilateral declaration followed by US recognition may result in the VS reaching the northern banks of the Ibar and halting at Mitrovica, but there will be nothing done in the south.
Europe may even acquiesce to this is light of giving Serbia "something".

Second, threats of war are no different sabre rattling than threats of unilateral declarations of independence. Both sides realize they need to be strong in the face of obstacles and need to reassure their publics they will do everything possible to reach their goals. Saying Serbia will use force is a way of telling the negotiators to take their positions seriously at the barganing table, just as Ceku's constant reminder that he will unilaterally declare Kosovo's independence come 12:01 AM December 11.

Some Albanians commenters here have likened Serbia to a spoiled child, threatening a temper tantrum if it doesn't get its way. That's not too far from what we've been hearing from Pristina these last few months too. It's time the US, Europe, and Russia stepped in as the Great Powers they supposedly are, and take greater control of the matter to avoid such extreme threats on both sides from manifesting.

This is excellent news!
Every country would do everything in its powers to protect their territory, so shouldn't Serbia? Oh ya it's because of threats from america. But now at least we have Russia backing us.

"Education Minister Zoran Lončar has today repeated that Serbia will nullify any act pertaining to Kosovo independence. He added that he would never accept the creation of the first NATO state. "



Good for you man. Don't ever accept it. Stay a cool nationalist!!

Njazi - "I have addressed a simple question to Serbian posters five different times and never got an answer. The question was who will do what and how, in case (I am sure about it, maybe not in December but shortly after)Kosovo declares independence???"

You have received numerous answers to this already.

Here was one that I wrote on this same thread:

"... the mention of [Serbia] sending in troops is specificed as being ONLY if unilateral independence is declared and supported. If it is declared and NOT supported then the troops there already will be bound to deal with any ensuing violence.

"Any country would seal their borders and send in troops if there was a threat of annexing territory."

You can try and be as patronising as you like with your 'Lady Kate' and 'my dear', but it won't wash. My point is very clear, and I am sure that other posters will also be happy to answer your question again with their own thoughts.

"International community suggested autonomy in 1999 in Rambuliet, which the albanian side accepte to stop the bloodshed, but Belgrade was too cocky and they were too busy singing! now its too late. "

Wrong. That was not the soul reason for the Yugoslav objection to Rambouillet. Certainly Belgrade had qualms with the terms of the autonomy that was put at the table but it was likely that in the face of international Belgrade would have acquiesed.

Now the real reason for the Serbian/Yugoslav objection was the secret Appendix B which was deliberately inserted by Allbright at the last second to provoke Belgrade into rejecting the Agreement and give NATO the pretence and excuse it needed to launch its illegal war (Gulf of Tonkin incident anybody). Appendix B called for the following -

'NATO personnel shall enjoy, together with their vehicles, vessels, aircraft, and equipment, free and unrestricted passage and unimpeded access throughout the FRY including associated airspace and territorial waters. This shall include, but not be limited to, the right of bivouac, maneuver, billet, and utilization of any areas or facilities as required for support, training, and operations'.

In otherwards Appendix B called for the complete NATO military occupation of FRY, thus usurping its sovereignty and independence. Now can you tell me Nikshalla, what country on earth worth its salt would have ratified this?

Nikshala
I know you probably love the symbol CCCC, there is no need to keep posting it all the time. It makes you look like a raving nationalist!

Then I am a raving nationalist.

B92 chopped up my last post and all that remains is MAYBE 20% of it.

Thats fine! Its irrelevent anyway. Im 25 and I have a job. I am not religious. Not by a long shot but I endorse anyone who followes religious rules. However, I with my health and blessing will not sit idlely by while Serbs in the South are suffering and dying. I was unable to do anything in 99 since I was 16 and overseas but NOW. Thats a different story.
These are my sentiments and of many people I know. Serbia is no longer in the 90's NOR is Russia.
CCCC

Addressed to all thatbuse the term'serb albanians", there is no such a thing and will never be. empty threats mean nothing to us anymore and even if they are real we are ready to deal with anything, but are YOU ready?

Thoughts on the subject:

1. Miloshevic is alive and well, thanks to his successors.

2. Serbia = democratic, yet largest party threatens with acts of war.

Do I want to live in Serbia?
Absolutely NOT. I love how Serbia is continually beginning to shut itself even more, isolate, and self-destruct.

I didn't read not even 10% of people's posts so I hope I'm not reiterating what someone else may have said.

Last thought, doesn't declaring war on an entire ethnicity STEP on INT LAW?

When Kosova spells out Independence who is Serbia going to fight? KFOR or the Kosovar people? Last time I checked Kosova doesn't have an army.

Again, international law huh?

KS - if you live in Kosovo, you are already living in Serbia :). Check your maps.
(Dragan, 6. September 2007 20:38)

Correction I live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, therefore I don't live in Serbia. The Kosovars that live in Kosova don't live in SERBIA.

The Kosovar-Serbs that live in rooms smaller than a box in belgrade live in Serbia.

Get it through your head, none of the 2,400,000 Kosovars want to join Kosova with Serbia. Greater Serbia is dead, it never will be.

-97

Mr. Petrovich,

US doesn't need to deploy troops in Kosovo after it recognizes Kosovo independence. If it does it will be only for humanitarian purpose continuing the KFOR mission.

However, if Serbia sends even a single soldier to Kosovo without Kosovo government consent, that will considered a provocation and will take only few F-18s flying over Belgrade to make Serbia pull its claws back from Kosovo.

Do you get the picure now!

Naill Doherty

Unlike you who has never set foot in Kosovo, I was there during the war, and i know exactly how much of a 'lie' it was. Are you saying that me and my family we 'imagine' the serbs paramilitaries robbing us, beating me, and kicking us from our home?

I do not need to read papers, since I seen the serbian crime with my own eyes.

You should do the same. Come to Kosovo, maybe you'll learn something!

ACA, we would have been 3 million for sure if wasn't for the murdering, killing, and expelling Kosovars.

Where do you think those Turkian-Albanians came from?
They came from fleeing Kosova.

BTW if Kosova has 1 million people and there is a 5% Kosovar-Serbian minority than that means the total of Kosovar-Serbs is 50,000 total.

But never mind that, I guess after the war over 1.4 million Albanians from Albanian moved to Kosova, right? That's why Albania has the same population it had 9 years ago; much higher actually.

Rocky

I can assure that whatever I have said is true. If you choose not to believe it, than thats fine, but like I said, unlike some people who comment here, most of K. albanians have personaly exprienced the war in 1999. And we KNOW what happened, because we've seen it.

I didnt cry bout operation strom or the serbs in Krajina, because at the time I was a youngteenager, and didn't really know what was happening.

Personally I do not know all the facts about Krajina or operation storm, and I like to know all the facts and all sides of the story before I form an opinion on something. I am not defending what happenedin in Krajina, and I did not even mention it. But what happened in Croatia or Bosnia, is irrelevant to what happened in Kosovo, that I know a lot about.

Yes, serbian churches have been vanadalised and I condem those crimes it was wrong.

The security situation of serbs in Kosovo, is not as bad as people think or make it out to be. But it still need improving. And I do feel sorry for the situation of the K. Serbs in south of Iber. But you have to remeber that it has only beend 8 years since the end of the war, and it takes much longer for trust and complete tolerance to build between two communites.

And serbs in the North are not tolerant at all. Thats a no go area for albanians. Two weeks ago a bus was attacked with a granade carrying albanains going to visit their homes in the North. But I bet you didn't hear about that.

The reason for independence, is because its the only solution that would work on the ground. Unless you want the suffering of Kosovan citizens to continue for decades.

The aim of K.albanians, has always been to be free and rule themselves, and not by serbs, turks, croatians, bulgarians or whever. During Yugoslavia what we wanted was to be equal as others.

The aim of Serbia in the last century, has always been to get rid of albanian population. There are numrous documents written by serbs themeselves that claims this.

Rocky, I don't really see the point you were trying to make. Do not blame Kosovo for things that happened in Croatia. and if you have any real argumtent or facts that prove that my words are empty, please lay them out.

My comment seems to have been deleted for some reason, after being published. but anyway....


jovan, Nail, and other,

I do not need to see a video or read and article on some website. Unlike you, I experienced the war in 1999 myself, and I saw with my own eyes the crimes commited by serbs forces.

Are you trying to tell me that me and my family all of a sudden became paranoid, and 'imaginged' the serbs paramilitary coming to our neighbouhood, robbing us, beating me, and kicking us frm our home telling we have 5 mins to leave to Macedonia or Albania? And this happened in Prishtina, what happened in villiges was far far worse. We considered ourselves extremly lucky- considering my dad's friend was shot in his own house, because he had a photo of his son on the wall with an albanian flag on the backgroung (on the photo), who at the time was living in USA!

The son now is back in pristhina, but he is probably still 'imagining' that his dad is dead, or maybe he is alive but just hiding in the basement, just so we can blame the serbs!

To Kate,
It is true that I have received numerous answers to this already, but they were ambigous. I just wanted YOU to confirm them.
Princip,
First of all, let me clarify it to you. Yes, English (as well as German, Spanish, Serbian and Macedonian) is (are)secondary language(s). As far as my English skills are concerned (it shouldn't matter to you), rest assured that, eventhough I do not live in UK, I speak and understand (OR COMPREHEND)it perfectly (as a non native speaker, of course).
Yes, the penny has dropped, but not as you think or believe (or want to convince others here). I have accepted the best solution in the state I live in, but it is not called Serbia.If I could, honestly, I would help make Serbia better for its own people, as all the good neighbours should do.
My direct response to you is this: NO MORE JAW - JAW
You see, I wouldn't mind for negotiations to continue if there was even one tiny bitty chance that we would come close to a compromise, but as the last decade has proven there can be no reasoning with your past/present set of elected politicians. I mean when your Chief of Staff is taken aback by statements coming from hotheaded politicians about reclaiming Kosovo by military means, what do you think how do we feel about such statements?!
Bad vibes my friend with the memory of war still fresh in our minds.
I am a family man and I have a child. For her sake, I will do everything in my power to make sure that Serbian army never sets foot again in Kosovo. This sentiment and determiantion is shared by all the Albs (not only in Kosovo)throughout the world.
If Serbia is so worried and concerned about a possible breach of intl laws by Kosovo declaring independence, why does it not step up and recognize it by her own free will?
Or better yet, why would they not opt for negotiations (there were negotiations for the last two years) without prejudices about the final outcome?, smth like "if nothing that Serbia has to offer will be acceptable to K-Albs, than we will consider to accept Kosovo as an independent country under these conditions."
This very sensitive issue for all of us in Balkans was never put like this, now was it?
To Mr. Petrovich,
Sir, we do not have to believe, or wait, for USA or other countries to help us defend ourselves. If the worst comes to worst we will manage. For your information Sir, Kosovo is not a narco- terrorist parastate as you call it. I have to addmit that we still have a lot to do to improve our country, but we will get there.
But for the sake of argument concerning USA policies; it was the democrats who lead the air campaign against Serbian army eight years ago, and Bush has only reiterated what the democrats have started. Kosovo is not Iraq nor Cyprus,and as such can not be compared to Middle East crisis (or other hot spots for that matter). Anyways, my point is that Kosovo issue is the only constant thing in the american foreign policy, regardless of who runs the country.
To Niall O'Doherty,
If Kosovo war was a lie, please come to Kosovo and Serbia and explain to thousands of dead and buried people that their act is over and that they can start living again.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

Prorokovich is only BARKING with the rest of the Pro-Miloshevich's DSS and Radical Party TEAM.

Its a sad future but an imminent one. If Kosovo goes the albanians in macedonia should seek autonomy and then declare independance. Same with the serbs in Montenegro. Not to mention the bosnian Serbs. Some realy great diplomatic work by the world powers fixed this situation up real nice. Cant wait till they make 3 states out of Iraq!

Unless they partition Kosovo , i think it will lead to open warfare again, this time potentially dragging Macedonia and Montenegro into the fray as everyone tries to grab land and declare sovereignty.

Not a good solution for the region.

Dear me it would seem that the penny is starting to drop!

For the ethnic-Albanian commentators please realise that this is a scenario that is inevitable if IF your leadership unilaterally declare and IF the US or any other NATO nation state illegally recognised and by doing so they and such abrupt actions would have ripped up the kumanovo agreement and disregarded the UN resolution that they formulated and signed. Serbia would have not initiated such action it is warning that this is the inevitable destination of pursuing such an illegal move.

$In this respect Serbia has every right to ensure it's sovereignity and there is very little that can be done or said and guess what the US did more then turn a blind eye when Croatia imposed it's sovereignity - get ready for it to wash it's hands and turn a blind eye like Polt said;

"What if...."

But there is an alternative - learn to accept the state your in and help rebuild reconcilation and a win-win that all in Serbia deserve including it's ethnic Albanians in it's southern province.

One other foot note remeber that the 10th Decemember will be early winter so don't expect France and Germany to be swayed by the US over Russia what with many predicting a severe winter for continental Europe! I don't believe that such a sceanrio will come about on the 10th December but it might be the turning point for the Serbian Albanians to realise the state they are in and get on helping to make a better Serbia for all of it's people.

Alb.
It is shame that Serbians have not learned from recent wars they’ve started and lost. Do you think that Albanians will wait for Serbian army with flowers?

Sure thay will if Serbian army use ww 2 german unifom
Aleksandar

Ahmet - I can guarantee that the phrase 'breaking international law' is perfectly acceptable in English.

'Violating' international law means the same thing in that context, although can also be used in different contexts, such as: "Why would you violate my language?"

Hardly being a polyglot myself, I am respectful of anyone who can speak more than one language (I can speak a few pretty badly).

But unless you are very fluent I wouldn't start refusing to read comments by others on the grounds that they upset your grammatical sensibilities!

Wrong Mr Isufi on the East Timor analogy. Portugal effectively abandoned East Timor in late November 1975 in the aftermath of the Carnation Revolution by withdrawing its troops, officials and police. The Marxist FREITLIN party which won earlier elections supervised by the Portuguese declared independence on 27 November 1975 unopposed by Lisbon. 9 days later Indonesia invaded with the tacit approval of Australia and the US under the pretence of preventing a communist takeover in Portuguese Timor. To sum it up.

1) East Timor never belonged to Indonesia in the first place as it was seized illegally by Jakarta and because of this, from 1975-99 it was recognised by the UN as defacto Portugese territory.

2) The last Portuguese Governor in East Timor, Mario Lemes Pires fled Dili in August 1975 in the wake of a coup on the island mounted by those opposed to FREITLIN. When the Portuguese Governor failed to return and faced with mounting anarchy, FREITLIN had no choice but to declare independence in order to impose law & order and fill the vaccum filled by the departing colonial authorities which was plunging the territory into anarchy. In effect Lisbon abandoned East Timor and left the new FREITLIN governemnt in Dili to their own devices. I simply fail to see the Kosovo connection

Kate,

I agree with your comment to Njazi who clearly does not seem to fully comprehend English but then I guess it is not his/her first languange so that is excusable.

Let me also be explicit in answer once more this is a Scenario based on the Polt "What if...." and following such abrupt acts as ILLEGAL declarations that firstly the UNMIK administration is obliged to immediatly annul and recall the local PISG who make it. Secondly if the US who help formulate and sign 1244 acted so abruptly so as to ILLEGALLY recognise it would by it's abrupt action nullify Kumanovo agreement and 1244 and it would be the US who will have sent the region back to the 9th of June at which point Serbia will be obliged to ensure it's territorial integrity which is maintained by 1244. If the US wish to ripp up UN SC resolutions in such an agressive nature then they cannot expect Serbia not to react. Beyond that in recent days it has become evident that NATO would immediatly withdraw given that such a SCENARIO and agressive action by the US would remove their legitamacy. Serbia is stating what is the inevitable consequences of such a scenario that the US have clarly not thought through - surely it is better that Serbia set off the alarm bells to this inevitable calamity so that a real and 'negotiated compromise' is found as an alternative?

Surely it is better for the jaw-jaw to continue even beyond 10th December if no compromise is found?

Surely the penny has dropped that the best solution is accepting the state your in and working to make Serbia better for all its people?

How about some direct responses from you Njazi?

Nikshala,
the question you put to Kate is absurd given that what you are suggesting is the ripping up of the very foundations of the UN and all of it's sovereign member states and the Helsinki final Act. Such a scenario that you put forth would if applied globally would lead to a world of 5,000+ monoethnic entities if not more as I could equally on such a preposterous proposition declare indepdence in the UK since I am of a different ethnic origin from the nation state of my brith if you suggest deceide I do not wish to participate and integrate but segregated from it.

I'll use Blair's words from the begining of the year in relation to immigrants and offspring who are in the UK "conform to it"

Harry,

"Only dictators can start meaningless and pointless wars,"

- I guess you include Bush and Blair in that list with regards to the Iraq War?

It's Serbian land and if they declare independence then Serbia should send in it's forces to reclaim whats theirs. Don't worry about NATO, we have Russia, and maybe China.

Nikshala - Of course it matters MOST OF ALL that innocent people don't die. That was always the biggest issue.

wow wow so many nervous albanians in here!

albanians make threats on a daily basis. So why then when one Serbian politician makes a threat all hell brakes loose?

All he is saying is that Serbia is coming to free its territory from occupiers (nato+albanians). What's wrong with that?

Njazi, the most likely, if Albanian extremists declare independence, Kosovo will share the fate of "Kuzey Kibris", recognized only by Turkey and no one else.

Since 2004 Cyprus is part of EU, but northern part comprising 35% of territory is living in limbo, i.e. not part of EU although the entire Cyprus is.

The same will happen with "kosova".

EU priority is EU unity, based on the rule of law, not support to illegaly created narco-terrorist parastate.

It's is naive to believe that United States will come to the rescue, especially after Iraq fiasco. Democrats are building their political platform on attacking Republicans for deployment in Iraq. Believing they will deploy troops in limbo called "kosova" is not based on cold facts and solid reasoning.

To paraphrase Mr. Polt, "What if... you K-Albanians declare independence and no country pays any attention to it, like in 1990?".

Before December 10, there is November 4th. If Republicans lose, and K-Albanians declare independence a month later, Bush will not be in a position to deploy forces in December 10-January 20th time slot and half of KFOR will be out. Serbia has to do nothing but ask the remaining KFOR to come under Serbia's command or leave the province. Democrats will not be in the position to deploy forces either. You can fool the people once, but not all the time.

If Republicans win, they will have more pressing issues to settle before sending troops to Kosovo as their first assignment.

In this case, the rule of law is mightier than the sword. I understnad that this concept is unfamiliar to the good number of K-Albanians, but the quicker you adopt it, the better for all of us in the Balkans.

If albanians declare independence,you can mark my word that, NATO would be begging Serbians for help and protection.For eight years now NATO and KFOR did nothing but help mafia get bigger and better.All the while they collected fat paychecks for turning blind eyes on the biggest crimes ever protected by international comunity.

"It is shame that Serbians have not learned from recent wars they’ve started and lost. Do you think that Albanians will wait for Serbian army with flowers? It was a different situation when you had Kosovo under control and all the ammunition left from the former Yugoslavia (which Kosovan paid for it as well)"

what a nonsense...

I´dont think that they will wait with flowers, but that is not relevant. in the end Serbia will liberate it´s territory from terrorist-elements, and afterwards all those peaceful Albanians who now do not dare to speak up because of the mafia-clans that rule down there... will be free and welcome to live peaceful and in secure together with all other ethnicities in the southern serbian province.

what is important to underline: Serbia has all the right to do it, if it turns out to be necessary. nobody coould blame Serbia at all!
isn´t that just great?

but it won´t happen, since even the US know that it wouldn´t serve their interest in the region...

so, let´s see what future brings!

it´s still time to come to reason, don´t waste that time my dear albanian friends ( and remember what happened to the Serbs in Croatia when they did not comply to a compromise...).

I'm a new poster and I just can't believe what I read from these guys from Albania...please just have the stomach to answer me why did your Agim Ceku fight with Franjo to not allow the Serbs in Krajina independence when they were the majority and why didn't you cry loud like you do now for human rights during operation storm. Now you are all for an ethnic majority as a right to self-determination?

KS - if you live in Kosovo, you are already living in Serbia :). Check your maps.

"Kosovo is not worth a single Serbian life. Split Kosovo, and the Serbian army can return to the north. But it is not worth fighting to bring back 2 million hostile Albanians under BG's rule."

Well, Serbian land might be worthless to you but its not to me. Even if Albanians three totaled 20 million, it would still be SERBIAN LAND. Frankly, I suspect that you are not a real Serb.

"Serbia had numerous occasions and opportunities to settle the 99 conflict peacfuly, but its not what they wanted. What they wanted was to get rid of Albanians from Kosovo, something that Milosevic personaly said to an internation diplomat, about how he is going to deal with albanians.

Do not fool yourself with conspiracy theories.

Serbia brought the NATO bombing on itself. - Nikshala"

Absolute tosh. These are the words taken from a high ranking British government minister - Lord Gilbert in the wake of the Goldstone Report conducted by the British government in the wake of the Kosovo War - and I quote from Lord Gilbert

"I think the terms put to Milošević at Rambouillet were absolutely intolerable; how could he possibly accept them; it was quite deliberate".

Now in the name of God, how the hell is that a conspiracy theory. It came from the man's mouth during a House of Commons enquiry Committee for all to hear.

Serbia actually signed up to the previous Paris agreement and the Federal Parliament stated that it would agree to the free passage of UN not NATO troops to pass and be stationed in its territory.

Operation Horsehoe - Potkova (the organised state sponsored expulsion of ethnic Albanians from Kosovo)that you allude to was later proven to be a fabrication by German intelligence as stated in the London Times newspaper in March 2000, hardly a bastion of radical left wing thinking.

The whole Kosovo war was one big lie, from the start right to the finish.

In other words, (if B92 didn't post my last comment) if the Albanians in southern Serbia, (KosovO)or for that matter all of Serbia, don't want anything to do with Serbia, then leave. No one is forcing them to stay. That's how we say it in america, "if you don't like it here, then LEAVE!" CCCC

I just started reading this post and I can't believe what i'm reading! Nikshala are you serious! You talk and talk but I really can't find anything except empty words. You answer me one question...why have over one hundred Serbian churches been burned or vandalized or destroyed in Kosovo since 1999? Please give me an answer...and you feel you have the right to independence? Why cause you are a majority? Then why weren't you crying for the Krajina Serbs when they were a majority and wanted the same self-determination? Why? Why didn't you cry human rights during operation storm and the right to self -governance? Please answer me why Serbian children can't walk to school in Kosovo? And don't say cause of all the crimes commited by Serbian forces...no doubt there were crime on all sides in cluding NATO, but Albanians in Kosovo have been planning independence long long before you were born and were just waiting for the right moment to try and realize it. Waiting for your answers...

Niall O'Dohery
The whole Kosovo war was one big lie, from the start right to the finish.
(Niall O'Dohery, Ireland, 6. September 2007 23:24)

Yes you are right and over milion people expelled from their homes were out on picnic and over 10 thousand dead persons just commited massive suicide and Nato intervened just for sight seeing in Kosovo.
What a comment i would understand if you base anything on facts about daily politics and various titles posted here for commentrs, but saying that there was no war it was a lie, it's really beyond the being human
I feel sorry for you and I just hope you never have any power whatsoever wherever you may be.

"Operation Horsehoe - Potkova (the organised state sponsored expulsion of ethnic Albanians from Kosovo)that you allude to was later proven to be a fabrication by German intelligence as stated in the London Times newspaper in March 2000, hardly a bastion of radical left wing thinking.

The whole Kosovo war was one big lie, from the start right to the finish."
(Niall O'Dohery, Ireland, 6. September 2007 23:24)

Niall,
in croatian it is "Potkova", if there was such a plan it would have had the name "Potkovica", how it is written correctly in serbian.

that´s just another indication that shows how amateur-like those german secret-service-dudes have been working...

that information and a lot more you can find in a documentary made by WDR, a german tv-station, " It started with a Lie" available on google-video.

enjoy!

if you dare to see the truth, just watch this film. afterwards you will probably say the serbian secret service has produced that documentary, and those Albanians in that film are serbian agents.

Njazi,

hey I was just suggesting that you did not comprehend seeing as you had had numerous responses - surely you should have just spelled it out to Kate that way in the first place such as;

Kate, I have had numerous answers over this question and I would like your opinion...

- I think this would have a been a better way of putting the question.

Beyond that I sincerely hope for all of Serbia's citizens irrespective of ethnicity that what you suggest does not happen since "when the jaw-jaw stops" as the saying goes "war-war starts". I have said it before that it is the worst case scenario and the last thing the region needs.

Respecting Serbia's continued sovereignity does not mean tragic events for future generations but is about reconciliation and building the trust amongst all in Serbia that the region requires. In fact many thousands of Serbian Albanians form the province very much value the benefits of Serbian insitutions - why else do they renew their passports? Building artificial walls and barriers will mean even greater instability for the future when the next generation grow up and possibly before then so it really is important that the talks continue until a "negotiated compromise" is found the alternative is not worth contemplating.

'Prince Lazar' wrote: "Frankly, I suspect that you are not a real Serb."

Of course, because someone who doesn't want to run to Kosovo with a Kalashnikov automatically is 'no real Serb'?
Pathetic statement, and I guess that you, like many others that make check warmongering statements here, have not served any time in the army during the '90s. You would talk differently.

But wait, maybe you're right: I also don't like sarma and prefer Coca Cola over Rakija. And I really really hate Velja Ilic and don't sign my postings here with CCCC.
So yes, I suppose I'm not a Serb.
I'm glad Prince Lazar cleared that up for me.

to that quite childish comment by an albanian writer:

real Serbs are calling for respect of international rules, laws and treaties, something real Albanians seem to be very eager to breach!

if Serbia is offering ( internationally supervised ) broad autonomy, your statements about "Serbia wishing to run Kosovo with a Kalashnikhov" sound quite desperately unimaginative!

come on, don´t you have something with more weight? I mean...some real arguments?

once again, I ask myself WHO is actually getting nervous here, is it the Serbs ( how some smart Albanians would like to sell us here ) or couldn´t it be quite the opposite?

Maybe the people from my generation were right to try to go abroad.
Because if this is the voice of a modern Serbia, if this site (B92) and its visitors represent the future of my people, than I doubt that there is a future for any moderation or reason in Serbia.

When anyone who isn't immediately jumping with joy when violence is mentioned is immediately accused of not being a Serb, or of being 'a childish Albanian', then I think the world is actually right: a lot of our problems ARE cause by our own lack of maturity as a people.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle: Not all Serbs think like this. Unfortunately some of those that have extremist and violent attitudes are also very dominant and violent in expressing their opinions.

Personally I believe there was no reason to 'lose' Kosovo. But the actions of first Tito, then Milosevic caused a situation which is beyond repair. They lost Kosovo.

And I am going to make sure that my children or my children's children won't have to pay for the mistakes that were made in our name before. So let's move on. Divide Kosovo, make sure our heritage is protected.
Because at the end of the day, being a Serb is not anchored in Churches or ground. Being a Serb is in your veins and spirit.
Losing a piece of land means nothing. Losing your spirit, fighting amongst each other and against the voice of normality means that you're losing the essence of being Serbian.