15

Wednesday, 05.09.2007.

16:03

"Kosovo talks to continue after December 10"

If Belgrade and Priština fail to reach a compromise, the Troika will offer several solutions, an analyst says.

Izvor: Tanjug

"Kosovo talks to continue after December 10" IMAGE SOURCE
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15 Komentari

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Ballkan

pre 16 godina

I just wanted to add that really serbs has a good possobility to resolve their problems now, to be indipendent country, seems all serbs are dipendent to a small country (KosovA). I can not understand how the serbs are not planing to the future, what can happen after 30 years if Kosovo will be a confederation, this means that based on statistics of growing population the albanians in so called confederation will be majority, so this means that the confederation state will be leaded from albanians , what will happen to serbs? who knows! So thats why the serbs has to think about the future if really they want to be a indipendent country as well.
Work in the present and think to the future!

Benny

pre 16 godina

JOVAN
UNSC---hmm remember it is the same UNSC (without Russia's approval) that bombed Serbia.
Now I understand that we both have arguments to deffend our possitions. You on one side claim to have International Law but it seems that you either forget or ignore that it's Serbia who broke the same International Law's.
Kosovo independence even before being qualified as a “classic case of secession from a sovereign state”, as Serbs argue, should be considered as “annulment of an unlawful annexation. In fact it was Serbia that acted in contradiction with international law in 1912 when it annexed Kosovo through military occupation after its aggression against the Ottoman Empire, “even though Kosovo had its historic and ethnic identity, accompanied by its right to liberation, whether that was from the Ottoman occupation (1912) or Fascist occupation (1944), and in spite of its geographical demographic and cultural integrity”. Consequently, instead of admitting its unlawful act, which she committed while violating international law in a bold manner, Serbia is now using an argument which is scientifically and historically unsustainable, namely to “preserve its sovereignty over Kosovo”, which, as proved by facts, she held in an unlawful manner for a long period of time without ever asking the majority population of Kosovo or having their consent. Kosovo was occupied during Balkan wars (1912-1913) in contradiction with the aspiration of the Albanians, expressed during their national liberation movement 1878-1912. In this manner Serbia, in spite of getting the “international legitimacy” for the occupation of Kosovo, in no way was able to justify the legitimacy of its act. In addition to this, Serbian possessive attitudes towards Kosovo which refer to history are unfounded. Firstly they are unfounded in its methodological qualification of the national character of a territory because if history is to be taken as a criteria, in light of contemporary national-territorial realities, Hungary has the right to the Panonic part of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Hungary would argue about their rights over Belgrade, Greece would claim a right over Istanbul, Albania over Janina, Mexico over Florida and California, Sweden over Finland and Norway, Germany over Shlezi and Sudet regions, Denmark over Shlezivik, Iraq over Kuwait etc. Secondly, Serbia’s possessive attitudes towards Kosovo are unfounded in the aspect of material truth, since Kosovo, in spite of allegations of such nature “in neither a cradle of Serbian nation, nor of Serbian state”. Finally, imperialistic ambitions with “historic rights” could not be defended by England, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, which, as it is known “with centuries held many nations under their occupation. Therefore “with the destruction of colonial empires over 120 new states were created”. Serbia was “under the occupation of Ottoman Empire for over five centuries (1389-1878). Spain “had conquered all Latin America in the beginning of XVI century. Neither do “Russians ever mention their historic rights over Ukraine”. Historic arguments speak very clearly that “Serbs were placed in Kosovo with their expansion under the rule of Nemanjics’”. As a result of occupations during the Ottoman Empire, many ethnic minorities, such as Serbs, Turks and Roma, were placed in the ethnic Albanian territories. The Serbian minority was greatly expanded with the violent colonization that occurred between two world wars; nevertheless their percentage never exceeded 10% of the overall population. On the basis of these facts the conclusion is very clear: it was in deed the Serbian aggression, occupation and annexation of Kosovo that violated the international law and not otherwise, namely that Kosovo independence would violate international law. History is a witness of denationalization policies; of gross crimes against Albanians during 1912-1918;
for the deportation of Albanians in Turkey and for confiscation the lands of the population and its colonization with Serbs and Montenegrins. The time period between February 1998 and June 10, 1999 only exceeded these special cases and took the gravity of a general genocide of the Serbian regime against Albanians.
Secondly, the decision for Kosovo’s future cannot ignore the constitutional position of Kosovo in former Yugoslavia although Kosovo did not enjoy the status of a republic. However, most importantly, Kosovo was a constitute part of former Yugoslavia with a defined territory and borders, which could not be changed without its consent. Kosovo was directly represented in the former Yugoslav federation same as the other republics, not through Serbia because we would create a paradox as in that case Serbia would have three votes in the Federation, while the other units would have only one vote. With its political-territorial identities, its constitution, Kosovo was a federally constitute unit of the multinational federation of Yugoslavia. That Kosovo was not part of Serbia can be proven by the following historical and political facts: Kosovo was not part of the independent sovereign state of Serbia with its international personality recognized in the Berlin Congress (1878); Kosovo was not part of Serbia in the Second AVNOJ Congress (1943); Kosovo was not part of Serbia during its establishment as a federal unit in the Anti-Fascist Popular Liberation Council (1944); Kosovo was not part of Serbia in the structure of Constitutional Assembly of Yugoslavia when the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was founded (1945). Kosovo was not included in the sovereign Serbia, except in federal Serbia within federal Yugoslavia, during the military occupation of Kosovo (1945). Finally it is worth mentioning that the abolishment of Kosovo’s autonomy with the amendments in the Constitution of Serbia, an act, which occurred on March 28 1989, was done in an unlawful manner. Even if we didn’t have the essential deficiencies regarding the declaration in the Kosovo Assembly, deficiencies that are proven, “lack of free will”, as a result of extraordinary political pressures, makes the declaration for constitutional amendments unconstitutional.
Finally I think that any conflict should be resolved in a most democratic way, by avoiding violence, misunderstandings, and by avoiding death. But, this should not serve as an alibi to humiliate a nation in every possible way. In this case, the people of Kosovo have every right to respond with all the options. There should be no exceptions when it comes to the freedom of a nation. There can be no negotiations on it. This nation has a right to ask for its freedom and protect it.
Thank you

Kosa

pre 16 godina

We don't need to demonstrate since our government is doing exatly what we want.
FYI, last time I checked there are no Serbs running Kosovo.
Jovan, I completely agree with you about terrorism. It should not be awarded, especially if it comes from government(does this ring any bells my friend?), as was the '90 Serbian governance in Kosova.
To Princip,
Are you aware that it was UK who was for using ground troops against Serbian army back in '98?
NATO troops have all the legitimacy they need, granted to them by people of Kosova. And in case a few thousand troops were to go back to their home countries, what would be the difference???!!!
We can take care of our selves, thank you very much.
Btw, who the hell is Putin???

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Who is going to listen to Serbia about "international law", when Serbia is the first one to have broken a gazillion of those?

Serbia has always lost because it thinks that rules don't apply to it, and that's because Russia effectively blinds them into promises that it can't keep.

Tom Cobb

pre 16 godina

Jovan,
Do you realize that your rhetoric follows a pattern?
You always become very shrill when the Albanians get the better of you. Inorder to be convincing you must not show your emotions on your sleeve.
It is clear that you don't really believe in what you preach.This behavior gives away your true emotions and you lose all credability.
Change professions, debating is not your forte.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

Joe,

economic development is under pinned by property rights - without the full and sovereign legal title there will be very little economic development as witnessed in the last 8 years despite the billions that has been pumped into the region. Unless there is a UN SC resolution Kosovo & Metohija remains a province of Serbia - legally till time infinitum. So the ethnic Albanian leadership in Serbia's province can illegally declare unilaterally but they should expect the inevitable economic degredation and the constant knowledge that Serbia can form that point on Legally impose it's sovereignity at a time that it pleases - hardly an environment conducive to foreign investment. Such a scenario is 1000's of times worse then the continuation of Status Quo but any so called 'leader' willing to go down this path must be prepared to face the consequences when the 'followers' open their eyes!

Look up De Soto and property rights

"They had houses but no titles; crops but no deeds; businesses but no statutes of incorporation,"

the ethnic-Albanian leadership in the Serbian province can declare tomorrow but won't because they have been told it will mean little and while UNMIK is present it will be obliged to immediatly annul such drivel. Oh and if the US were dumb to recognise they would be removing the very legitamacy for their troop prescense and we have all read yesterday that in such a scenario european troops would immediatly pull out!

I think this chess game is nearing the check mate stage with the US knowing that which ever way it moves it has lost and which ever way things pan out Russia's Putin has played a superb game. The dark horse is the Europeans - can they find a face saving exit for the US and drag this out into 2008?

Jovan

pre 16 godina

oh nikshala... you shouldn´t try to distract from the obvious...

neither am I a nationalist by speaking up for INTERNATIONAL law nor am I insulting anyone here...

if you do not like what I am writing, the reason is that you don´t like to read the truth, REAL arguments and facts.

I only say you lost inside the UNSC...and ...even if you do not want to accept it... the UNSC is where the music plays!

I would love to see your face in next spring when you will still be preaching "we are an independent country" and Russia is backing down before the " one and only global superpower"...

I mean, really, YOU should ask yourself whether you are not on the wrong path... whether you believe what you are writing...

Joe

pre 16 godina

I think at the end the Serbs would even take the "confederation" solution as face saving with a built-in paragraph..like the one with Montenegro, who was able to decide by vote for independence 1 or 2 years later. This charade of "face saving" for the Serbs would represent an inhuman dictate imposed on the K-Albanians. It would delay their economic development just like the "forced mariage" of Serbia-Montenegro slowed Montenegro's development.

KS

pre 16 godina

Jovan said "nikshala seems to get nervous...

thanks god it doesn´t matter what you think is "better"...

there won´t be a socalled "independence", that´s something some of you still have to learn... and sooner or later will learn. fact is, the US cannot impose a solution ( even if you still believe that ), and there is international law clearly saying what is possible and what is not. "

International law is a joke. You happy? I said it! International law has been breached before you were born and it will be breached many times after you die. Laws made by man can be changed by man.

Frankly no one cares what serbia says about international law, it's not like it respects it to uphold it.

Serbia hasn't respected int law:
2,000+ civilians still missing in serbia proper.
Refuses to hand out INTERNATIONALLY WANTED war criminals.
Buries criminals as NATIONAL HEROES.

SO where was INT LAW when you murdered 10,000 civilians and 2,000 more Kosovars are still missing in Serbia proper? Where was international law when your burned everything to the floor; our homes, our mosques, our shops, everything? Where was international law when you committed atrocities in Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosova?

Yet, you ask us to forgive & forget and live under you? In your dreams.

Jason

pre 16 godina

It's illegal to redine the boundries of a soverign state. kosovo is part of Serbia therefore international law says it has to stay that way. No room for discussion. I think if people knew the crimes KLA members still commit they would be totally against a seperate kosovo.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

nikshala seems to get nervous...

thanks god it doesn´t matter what you think is "better"...

there won´t be a socalled "independence", that´s something some of you still have to learn... and sooner or later will learn. fact is, the US cannot impose a solution ( even if you still believe that ), and there is international law clearly saying what is possible and what is not.

it´s only a question of time until you get the message from your "friends".

personally I am against any kind of confederation, since it would letitimate the albanian terrorism that provoked the yugoslav army and then lead to the illegal aggresion on the FR Yugoslavia.

terrorism should never be rewarded. never ever.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Jovan

Please tell me you are joking. I can understand why you as a nationalistic serb, might be against indepednece of kosovo, because you have grown up by reading biased history books, and at he same time I can tell that you have this belief that serbs are this 'divine' nation better than anyone in balkans. From you comments its very obvious your dislike for albanians and you view of them, which maybe makes you write childish insults. You are also displaying typical symptoms of the 'disease' that Montgomery desrcibed where you blame everyone else for the actions of serbs (albanians provoked the serbs, so thats why they massacred civilians!!)- but please, tell that you don't really believe that stuff that you write, and you are only trying to annoy albanians.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

I don't think confederation will be acceptable to albanian population. Any kind of link of albanian areas in Kosovo, with Serbia, is unacceptable.

Nick made a very good comment, where he said that people need to accept and understand serbs crimes in Kosovo so they can understand why independence means so much to K. Albanians.

Some people fail to realise how strongly and how unanimous the feeling for independence is within K. Albanians. The idea of having any kind of link with Serbia in the future, is unthinkable, and should not even be considered. Its too late for that now. Too much water under the bridge.

Confederation would not function anyway, since Kosovo and Serbia would never be able to agree on any policy or law. It would paralyse both countries.

Partition would be better than confederation.

A better solution would be a confederation within Kosovo i.e. high autonomy for serb areas in north, with the possibility of reviewing the situation in 5 or 10 years time when the north could break away from independent Kosovo.

Cvele

pre 16 godina

Confederation? What a JOKE. Never. As for the countdown some of u albans began keep counting. Once u reach 0 just turn around and start counting upwards then. So funny that you are so easily manipulated. In Serbia there would have been giant demonstrations by now. All that matters is ur coming to an understanding of the fact there will be no independence and all of you are citizens of your host country Serbia. HAVE A NICE DAY.

CCCC

KS

pre 16 godina

Jovan said "nikshala seems to get nervous...

thanks god it doesn´t matter what you think is "better"...

there won´t be a socalled "independence", that´s something some of you still have to learn... and sooner or later will learn. fact is, the US cannot impose a solution ( even if you still believe that ), and there is international law clearly saying what is possible and what is not. "

International law is a joke. You happy? I said it! International law has been breached before you were born and it will be breached many times after you die. Laws made by man can be changed by man.

Frankly no one cares what serbia says about international law, it's not like it respects it to uphold it.

Serbia hasn't respected int law:
2,000+ civilians still missing in serbia proper.
Refuses to hand out INTERNATIONALLY WANTED war criminals.
Buries criminals as NATIONAL HEROES.

SO where was INT LAW when you murdered 10,000 civilians and 2,000 more Kosovars are still missing in Serbia proper? Where was international law when your burned everything to the floor; our homes, our mosques, our shops, everything? Where was international law when you committed atrocities in Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosova?

Yet, you ask us to forgive & forget and live under you? In your dreams.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

I don't think confederation will be acceptable to albanian population. Any kind of link of albanian areas in Kosovo, with Serbia, is unacceptable.

Nick made a very good comment, where he said that people need to accept and understand serbs crimes in Kosovo so they can understand why independence means so much to K. Albanians.

Some people fail to realise how strongly and how unanimous the feeling for independence is within K. Albanians. The idea of having any kind of link with Serbia in the future, is unthinkable, and should not even be considered. Its too late for that now. Too much water under the bridge.

Confederation would not function anyway, since Kosovo and Serbia would never be able to agree on any policy or law. It would paralyse both countries.

Partition would be better than confederation.

A better solution would be a confederation within Kosovo i.e. high autonomy for serb areas in north, with the possibility of reviewing the situation in 5 or 10 years time when the north could break away from independent Kosovo.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

nikshala seems to get nervous...

thanks god it doesn´t matter what you think is "better"...

there won´t be a socalled "independence", that´s something some of you still have to learn... and sooner or later will learn. fact is, the US cannot impose a solution ( even if you still believe that ), and there is international law clearly saying what is possible and what is not.

it´s only a question of time until you get the message from your "friends".

personally I am against any kind of confederation, since it would letitimate the albanian terrorism that provoked the yugoslav army and then lead to the illegal aggresion on the FR Yugoslavia.

terrorism should never be rewarded. never ever.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Jovan

Please tell me you are joking. I can understand why you as a nationalistic serb, might be against indepednece of kosovo, because you have grown up by reading biased history books, and at he same time I can tell that you have this belief that serbs are this 'divine' nation better than anyone in balkans. From you comments its very obvious your dislike for albanians and you view of them, which maybe makes you write childish insults. You are also displaying typical symptoms of the 'disease' that Montgomery desrcibed where you blame everyone else for the actions of serbs (albanians provoked the serbs, so thats why they massacred civilians!!)- but please, tell that you don't really believe that stuff that you write, and you are only trying to annoy albanians.

Cvele

pre 16 godina

Confederation? What a JOKE. Never. As for the countdown some of u albans began keep counting. Once u reach 0 just turn around and start counting upwards then. So funny that you are so easily manipulated. In Serbia there would have been giant demonstrations by now. All that matters is ur coming to an understanding of the fact there will be no independence and all of you are citizens of your host country Serbia. HAVE A NICE DAY.

CCCC

Jason

pre 16 godina

It's illegal to redine the boundries of a soverign state. kosovo is part of Serbia therefore international law says it has to stay that way. No room for discussion. I think if people knew the crimes KLA members still commit they would be totally against a seperate kosovo.

Joe

pre 16 godina

I think at the end the Serbs would even take the "confederation" solution as face saving with a built-in paragraph..like the one with Montenegro, who was able to decide by vote for independence 1 or 2 years later. This charade of "face saving" for the Serbs would represent an inhuman dictate imposed on the K-Albanians. It would delay their economic development just like the "forced mariage" of Serbia-Montenegro slowed Montenegro's development.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

Joe,

economic development is under pinned by property rights - without the full and sovereign legal title there will be very little economic development as witnessed in the last 8 years despite the billions that has been pumped into the region. Unless there is a UN SC resolution Kosovo & Metohija remains a province of Serbia - legally till time infinitum. So the ethnic Albanian leadership in Serbia's province can illegally declare unilaterally but they should expect the inevitable economic degredation and the constant knowledge that Serbia can form that point on Legally impose it's sovereignity at a time that it pleases - hardly an environment conducive to foreign investment. Such a scenario is 1000's of times worse then the continuation of Status Quo but any so called 'leader' willing to go down this path must be prepared to face the consequences when the 'followers' open their eyes!

Look up De Soto and property rights

"They had houses but no titles; crops but no deeds; businesses but no statutes of incorporation,"

the ethnic-Albanian leadership in the Serbian province can declare tomorrow but won't because they have been told it will mean little and while UNMIK is present it will be obliged to immediatly annul such drivel. Oh and if the US were dumb to recognise they would be removing the very legitamacy for their troop prescense and we have all read yesterday that in such a scenario european troops would immediatly pull out!

I think this chess game is nearing the check mate stage with the US knowing that which ever way it moves it has lost and which ever way things pan out Russia's Putin has played a superb game. The dark horse is the Europeans - can they find a face saving exit for the US and drag this out into 2008?

Jovan

pre 16 godina

oh nikshala... you shouldn´t try to distract from the obvious...

neither am I a nationalist by speaking up for INTERNATIONAL law nor am I insulting anyone here...

if you do not like what I am writing, the reason is that you don´t like to read the truth, REAL arguments and facts.

I only say you lost inside the UNSC...and ...even if you do not want to accept it... the UNSC is where the music plays!

I would love to see your face in next spring when you will still be preaching "we are an independent country" and Russia is backing down before the " one and only global superpower"...

I mean, really, YOU should ask yourself whether you are not on the wrong path... whether you believe what you are writing...

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Who is going to listen to Serbia about "international law", when Serbia is the first one to have broken a gazillion of those?

Serbia has always lost because it thinks that rules don't apply to it, and that's because Russia effectively blinds them into promises that it can't keep.

Benny

pre 16 godina

JOVAN
UNSC---hmm remember it is the same UNSC (without Russia's approval) that bombed Serbia.
Now I understand that we both have arguments to deffend our possitions. You on one side claim to have International Law but it seems that you either forget or ignore that it's Serbia who broke the same International Law's.
Kosovo independence even before being qualified as a “classic case of secession from a sovereign state”, as Serbs argue, should be considered as “annulment of an unlawful annexation. In fact it was Serbia that acted in contradiction with international law in 1912 when it annexed Kosovo through military occupation after its aggression against the Ottoman Empire, “even though Kosovo had its historic and ethnic identity, accompanied by its right to liberation, whether that was from the Ottoman occupation (1912) or Fascist occupation (1944), and in spite of its geographical demographic and cultural integrity”. Consequently, instead of admitting its unlawful act, which she committed while violating international law in a bold manner, Serbia is now using an argument which is scientifically and historically unsustainable, namely to “preserve its sovereignty over Kosovo”, which, as proved by facts, she held in an unlawful manner for a long period of time without ever asking the majority population of Kosovo or having their consent. Kosovo was occupied during Balkan wars (1912-1913) in contradiction with the aspiration of the Albanians, expressed during their national liberation movement 1878-1912. In this manner Serbia, in spite of getting the “international legitimacy” for the occupation of Kosovo, in no way was able to justify the legitimacy of its act. In addition to this, Serbian possessive attitudes towards Kosovo which refer to history are unfounded. Firstly they are unfounded in its methodological qualification of the national character of a territory because if history is to be taken as a criteria, in light of contemporary national-territorial realities, Hungary has the right to the Panonic part of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Hungary would argue about their rights over Belgrade, Greece would claim a right over Istanbul, Albania over Janina, Mexico over Florida and California, Sweden over Finland and Norway, Germany over Shlezi and Sudet regions, Denmark over Shlezivik, Iraq over Kuwait etc. Secondly, Serbia’s possessive attitudes towards Kosovo are unfounded in the aspect of material truth, since Kosovo, in spite of allegations of such nature “in neither a cradle of Serbian nation, nor of Serbian state”. Finally, imperialistic ambitions with “historic rights” could not be defended by England, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, which, as it is known “with centuries held many nations under their occupation. Therefore “with the destruction of colonial empires over 120 new states were created”. Serbia was “under the occupation of Ottoman Empire for over five centuries (1389-1878). Spain “had conquered all Latin America in the beginning of XVI century. Neither do “Russians ever mention their historic rights over Ukraine”. Historic arguments speak very clearly that “Serbs were placed in Kosovo with their expansion under the rule of Nemanjics’”. As a result of occupations during the Ottoman Empire, many ethnic minorities, such as Serbs, Turks and Roma, were placed in the ethnic Albanian territories. The Serbian minority was greatly expanded with the violent colonization that occurred between two world wars; nevertheless their percentage never exceeded 10% of the overall population. On the basis of these facts the conclusion is very clear: it was in deed the Serbian aggression, occupation and annexation of Kosovo that violated the international law and not otherwise, namely that Kosovo independence would violate international law. History is a witness of denationalization policies; of gross crimes against Albanians during 1912-1918;
for the deportation of Albanians in Turkey and for confiscation the lands of the population and its colonization with Serbs and Montenegrins. The time period between February 1998 and June 10, 1999 only exceeded these special cases and took the gravity of a general genocide of the Serbian regime against Albanians.
Secondly, the decision for Kosovo’s future cannot ignore the constitutional position of Kosovo in former Yugoslavia although Kosovo did not enjoy the status of a republic. However, most importantly, Kosovo was a constitute part of former Yugoslavia with a defined territory and borders, which could not be changed without its consent. Kosovo was directly represented in the former Yugoslav federation same as the other republics, not through Serbia because we would create a paradox as in that case Serbia would have three votes in the Federation, while the other units would have only one vote. With its political-territorial identities, its constitution, Kosovo was a federally constitute unit of the multinational federation of Yugoslavia. That Kosovo was not part of Serbia can be proven by the following historical and political facts: Kosovo was not part of the independent sovereign state of Serbia with its international personality recognized in the Berlin Congress (1878); Kosovo was not part of Serbia in the Second AVNOJ Congress (1943); Kosovo was not part of Serbia during its establishment as a federal unit in the Anti-Fascist Popular Liberation Council (1944); Kosovo was not part of Serbia in the structure of Constitutional Assembly of Yugoslavia when the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was founded (1945). Kosovo was not included in the sovereign Serbia, except in federal Serbia within federal Yugoslavia, during the military occupation of Kosovo (1945). Finally it is worth mentioning that the abolishment of Kosovo’s autonomy with the amendments in the Constitution of Serbia, an act, which occurred on March 28 1989, was done in an unlawful manner. Even if we didn’t have the essential deficiencies regarding the declaration in the Kosovo Assembly, deficiencies that are proven, “lack of free will”, as a result of extraordinary political pressures, makes the declaration for constitutional amendments unconstitutional.
Finally I think that any conflict should be resolved in a most democratic way, by avoiding violence, misunderstandings, and by avoiding death. But, this should not serve as an alibi to humiliate a nation in every possible way. In this case, the people of Kosovo have every right to respond with all the options. There should be no exceptions when it comes to the freedom of a nation. There can be no negotiations on it. This nation has a right to ask for its freedom and protect it.
Thank you

Ballkan

pre 16 godina

I just wanted to add that really serbs has a good possobility to resolve their problems now, to be indipendent country, seems all serbs are dipendent to a small country (KosovA). I can not understand how the serbs are not planing to the future, what can happen after 30 years if Kosovo will be a confederation, this means that based on statistics of growing population the albanians in so called confederation will be majority, so this means that the confederation state will be leaded from albanians , what will happen to serbs? who knows! So thats why the serbs has to think about the future if really they want to be a indipendent country as well.
Work in the present and think to the future!

Tom Cobb

pre 16 godina

Jovan,
Do you realize that your rhetoric follows a pattern?
You always become very shrill when the Albanians get the better of you. Inorder to be convincing you must not show your emotions on your sleeve.
It is clear that you don't really believe in what you preach.This behavior gives away your true emotions and you lose all credability.
Change professions, debating is not your forte.

Kosa

pre 16 godina

We don't need to demonstrate since our government is doing exatly what we want.
FYI, last time I checked there are no Serbs running Kosovo.
Jovan, I completely agree with you about terrorism. It should not be awarded, especially if it comes from government(does this ring any bells my friend?), as was the '90 Serbian governance in Kosova.
To Princip,
Are you aware that it was UK who was for using ground troops against Serbian army back in '98?
NATO troops have all the legitimacy they need, granted to them by people of Kosova. And in case a few thousand troops were to go back to their home countries, what would be the difference???!!!
We can take care of our selves, thank you very much.
Btw, who the hell is Putin???

Jovan

pre 16 godina

oh nikshala... you shouldn´t try to distract from the obvious...

neither am I a nationalist by speaking up for INTERNATIONAL law nor am I insulting anyone here...

if you do not like what I am writing, the reason is that you don´t like to read the truth, REAL arguments and facts.

I only say you lost inside the UNSC...and ...even if you do not want to accept it... the UNSC is where the music plays!

I would love to see your face in next spring when you will still be preaching "we are an independent country" and Russia is backing down before the " one and only global superpower"...

I mean, really, YOU should ask yourself whether you are not on the wrong path... whether you believe what you are writing...

nikshala

pre 16 godina

I don't think confederation will be acceptable to albanian population. Any kind of link of albanian areas in Kosovo, with Serbia, is unacceptable.

Nick made a very good comment, where he said that people need to accept and understand serbs crimes in Kosovo so they can understand why independence means so much to K. Albanians.

Some people fail to realise how strongly and how unanimous the feeling for independence is within K. Albanians. The idea of having any kind of link with Serbia in the future, is unthinkable, and should not even be considered. Its too late for that now. Too much water under the bridge.

Confederation would not function anyway, since Kosovo and Serbia would never be able to agree on any policy or law. It would paralyse both countries.

Partition would be better than confederation.

A better solution would be a confederation within Kosovo i.e. high autonomy for serb areas in north, with the possibility of reviewing the situation in 5 or 10 years time when the north could break away from independent Kosovo.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Jovan

Please tell me you are joking. I can understand why you as a nationalistic serb, might be against indepednece of kosovo, because you have grown up by reading biased history books, and at he same time I can tell that you have this belief that serbs are this 'divine' nation better than anyone in balkans. From you comments its very obvious your dislike for albanians and you view of them, which maybe makes you write childish insults. You are also displaying typical symptoms of the 'disease' that Montgomery desrcibed where you blame everyone else for the actions of serbs (albanians provoked the serbs, so thats why they massacred civilians!!)- but please, tell that you don't really believe that stuff that you write, and you are only trying to annoy albanians.

KS

pre 16 godina

Jovan said "nikshala seems to get nervous...

thanks god it doesn´t matter what you think is "better"...

there won´t be a socalled "independence", that´s something some of you still have to learn... and sooner or later will learn. fact is, the US cannot impose a solution ( even if you still believe that ), and there is international law clearly saying what is possible and what is not. "

International law is a joke. You happy? I said it! International law has been breached before you were born and it will be breached many times after you die. Laws made by man can be changed by man.

Frankly no one cares what serbia says about international law, it's not like it respects it to uphold it.

Serbia hasn't respected int law:
2,000+ civilians still missing in serbia proper.
Refuses to hand out INTERNATIONALLY WANTED war criminals.
Buries criminals as NATIONAL HEROES.

SO where was INT LAW when you murdered 10,000 civilians and 2,000 more Kosovars are still missing in Serbia proper? Where was international law when your burned everything to the floor; our homes, our mosques, our shops, everything? Where was international law when you committed atrocities in Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosova?

Yet, you ask us to forgive & forget and live under you? In your dreams.

Joe

pre 16 godina

I think at the end the Serbs would even take the "confederation" solution as face saving with a built-in paragraph..like the one with Montenegro, who was able to decide by vote for independence 1 or 2 years later. This charade of "face saving" for the Serbs would represent an inhuman dictate imposed on the K-Albanians. It would delay their economic development just like the "forced mariage" of Serbia-Montenegro slowed Montenegro's development.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

Joe,

economic development is under pinned by property rights - without the full and sovereign legal title there will be very little economic development as witnessed in the last 8 years despite the billions that has been pumped into the region. Unless there is a UN SC resolution Kosovo & Metohija remains a province of Serbia - legally till time infinitum. So the ethnic Albanian leadership in Serbia's province can illegally declare unilaterally but they should expect the inevitable economic degredation and the constant knowledge that Serbia can form that point on Legally impose it's sovereignity at a time that it pleases - hardly an environment conducive to foreign investment. Such a scenario is 1000's of times worse then the continuation of Status Quo but any so called 'leader' willing to go down this path must be prepared to face the consequences when the 'followers' open their eyes!

Look up De Soto and property rights

"They had houses but no titles; crops but no deeds; businesses but no statutes of incorporation,"

the ethnic-Albanian leadership in the Serbian province can declare tomorrow but won't because they have been told it will mean little and while UNMIK is present it will be obliged to immediatly annul such drivel. Oh and if the US were dumb to recognise they would be removing the very legitamacy for their troop prescense and we have all read yesterday that in such a scenario european troops would immediatly pull out!

I think this chess game is nearing the check mate stage with the US knowing that which ever way it moves it has lost and which ever way things pan out Russia's Putin has played a superb game. The dark horse is the Europeans - can they find a face saving exit for the US and drag this out into 2008?

Cvele

pre 16 godina

Confederation? What a JOKE. Never. As for the countdown some of u albans began keep counting. Once u reach 0 just turn around and start counting upwards then. So funny that you are so easily manipulated. In Serbia there would have been giant demonstrations by now. All that matters is ur coming to an understanding of the fact there will be no independence and all of you are citizens of your host country Serbia. HAVE A NICE DAY.

CCCC

Jovan

pre 16 godina

nikshala seems to get nervous...

thanks god it doesn´t matter what you think is "better"...

there won´t be a socalled "independence", that´s something some of you still have to learn... and sooner or later will learn. fact is, the US cannot impose a solution ( even if you still believe that ), and there is international law clearly saying what is possible and what is not.

it´s only a question of time until you get the message from your "friends".

personally I am against any kind of confederation, since it would letitimate the albanian terrorism that provoked the yugoslav army and then lead to the illegal aggresion on the FR Yugoslavia.

terrorism should never be rewarded. never ever.

Jason

pre 16 godina

It's illegal to redine the boundries of a soverign state. kosovo is part of Serbia therefore international law says it has to stay that way. No room for discussion. I think if people knew the crimes KLA members still commit they would be totally against a seperate kosovo.

Funcakes

pre 16 godina

Who is going to listen to Serbia about "international law", when Serbia is the first one to have broken a gazillion of those?

Serbia has always lost because it thinks that rules don't apply to it, and that's because Russia effectively blinds them into promises that it can't keep.

Tom Cobb

pre 16 godina

Jovan,
Do you realize that your rhetoric follows a pattern?
You always become very shrill when the Albanians get the better of you. Inorder to be convincing you must not show your emotions on your sleeve.
It is clear that you don't really believe in what you preach.This behavior gives away your true emotions and you lose all credability.
Change professions, debating is not your forte.

Kosa

pre 16 godina

We don't need to demonstrate since our government is doing exatly what we want.
FYI, last time I checked there are no Serbs running Kosovo.
Jovan, I completely agree with you about terrorism. It should not be awarded, especially if it comes from government(does this ring any bells my friend?), as was the '90 Serbian governance in Kosova.
To Princip,
Are you aware that it was UK who was for using ground troops against Serbian army back in '98?
NATO troops have all the legitimacy they need, granted to them by people of Kosova. And in case a few thousand troops were to go back to their home countries, what would be the difference???!!!
We can take care of our selves, thank you very much.
Btw, who the hell is Putin???

Benny

pre 16 godina

JOVAN
UNSC---hmm remember it is the same UNSC (without Russia's approval) that bombed Serbia.
Now I understand that we both have arguments to deffend our possitions. You on one side claim to have International Law but it seems that you either forget or ignore that it's Serbia who broke the same International Law's.
Kosovo independence even before being qualified as a “classic case of secession from a sovereign state”, as Serbs argue, should be considered as “annulment of an unlawful annexation. In fact it was Serbia that acted in contradiction with international law in 1912 when it annexed Kosovo through military occupation after its aggression against the Ottoman Empire, “even though Kosovo had its historic and ethnic identity, accompanied by its right to liberation, whether that was from the Ottoman occupation (1912) or Fascist occupation (1944), and in spite of its geographical demographic and cultural integrity”. Consequently, instead of admitting its unlawful act, which she committed while violating international law in a bold manner, Serbia is now using an argument which is scientifically and historically unsustainable, namely to “preserve its sovereignty over Kosovo”, which, as proved by facts, she held in an unlawful manner for a long period of time without ever asking the majority population of Kosovo or having their consent. Kosovo was occupied during Balkan wars (1912-1913) in contradiction with the aspiration of the Albanians, expressed during their national liberation movement 1878-1912. In this manner Serbia, in spite of getting the “international legitimacy” for the occupation of Kosovo, in no way was able to justify the legitimacy of its act. In addition to this, Serbian possessive attitudes towards Kosovo which refer to history are unfounded. Firstly they are unfounded in its methodological qualification of the national character of a territory because if history is to be taken as a criteria, in light of contemporary national-territorial realities, Hungary has the right to the Panonic part of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Hungary would argue about their rights over Belgrade, Greece would claim a right over Istanbul, Albania over Janina, Mexico over Florida and California, Sweden over Finland and Norway, Germany over Shlezi and Sudet regions, Denmark over Shlezivik, Iraq over Kuwait etc. Secondly, Serbia’s possessive attitudes towards Kosovo are unfounded in the aspect of material truth, since Kosovo, in spite of allegations of such nature “in neither a cradle of Serbian nation, nor of Serbian state”. Finally, imperialistic ambitions with “historic rights” could not be defended by England, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, which, as it is known “with centuries held many nations under their occupation. Therefore “with the destruction of colonial empires over 120 new states were created”. Serbia was “under the occupation of Ottoman Empire for over five centuries (1389-1878). Spain “had conquered all Latin America in the beginning of XVI century. Neither do “Russians ever mention their historic rights over Ukraine”. Historic arguments speak very clearly that “Serbs were placed in Kosovo with their expansion under the rule of Nemanjics’”. As a result of occupations during the Ottoman Empire, many ethnic minorities, such as Serbs, Turks and Roma, were placed in the ethnic Albanian territories. The Serbian minority was greatly expanded with the violent colonization that occurred between two world wars; nevertheless their percentage never exceeded 10% of the overall population. On the basis of these facts the conclusion is very clear: it was in deed the Serbian aggression, occupation and annexation of Kosovo that violated the international law and not otherwise, namely that Kosovo independence would violate international law. History is a witness of denationalization policies; of gross crimes against Albanians during 1912-1918;
for the deportation of Albanians in Turkey and for confiscation the lands of the population and its colonization with Serbs and Montenegrins. The time period between February 1998 and June 10, 1999 only exceeded these special cases and took the gravity of a general genocide of the Serbian regime against Albanians.
Secondly, the decision for Kosovo’s future cannot ignore the constitutional position of Kosovo in former Yugoslavia although Kosovo did not enjoy the status of a republic. However, most importantly, Kosovo was a constitute part of former Yugoslavia with a defined territory and borders, which could not be changed without its consent. Kosovo was directly represented in the former Yugoslav federation same as the other republics, not through Serbia because we would create a paradox as in that case Serbia would have three votes in the Federation, while the other units would have only one vote. With its political-territorial identities, its constitution, Kosovo was a federally constitute unit of the multinational federation of Yugoslavia. That Kosovo was not part of Serbia can be proven by the following historical and political facts: Kosovo was not part of the independent sovereign state of Serbia with its international personality recognized in the Berlin Congress (1878); Kosovo was not part of Serbia in the Second AVNOJ Congress (1943); Kosovo was not part of Serbia during its establishment as a federal unit in the Anti-Fascist Popular Liberation Council (1944); Kosovo was not part of Serbia in the structure of Constitutional Assembly of Yugoslavia when the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was founded (1945). Kosovo was not included in the sovereign Serbia, except in federal Serbia within federal Yugoslavia, during the military occupation of Kosovo (1945). Finally it is worth mentioning that the abolishment of Kosovo’s autonomy with the amendments in the Constitution of Serbia, an act, which occurred on March 28 1989, was done in an unlawful manner. Even if we didn’t have the essential deficiencies regarding the declaration in the Kosovo Assembly, deficiencies that are proven, “lack of free will”, as a result of extraordinary political pressures, makes the declaration for constitutional amendments unconstitutional.
Finally I think that any conflict should be resolved in a most democratic way, by avoiding violence, misunderstandings, and by avoiding death. But, this should not serve as an alibi to humiliate a nation in every possible way. In this case, the people of Kosovo have every right to respond with all the options. There should be no exceptions when it comes to the freedom of a nation. There can be no negotiations on it. This nation has a right to ask for its freedom and protect it.
Thank you

Ballkan

pre 16 godina

I just wanted to add that really serbs has a good possobility to resolve their problems now, to be indipendent country, seems all serbs are dipendent to a small country (KosovA). I can not understand how the serbs are not planing to the future, what can happen after 30 years if Kosovo will be a confederation, this means that based on statistics of growing population the albanians in so called confederation will be majority, so this means that the confederation state will be leaded from albanians , what will happen to serbs? who knows! So thats why the serbs has to think about the future if really they want to be a indipendent country as well.
Work in the present and think to the future!