"Significant part of EU opposes Kosovo recognition"

Im sorry Lazer what you have said is neither realistic or reasonable. The US is not going to single handedly finance the development of Kosovo. Neither is Kosovo going to be able to handle any investments since it is not stable enough to recieve them.

I suggest you read what I have written above and realise that the US is not God. Europe is Europe and has nothing to do with the US.

Claiming atrocities by Serbs, well they are greatly outnumbered by those commited by Serbs and considering no Serbs have been welcomed back to their homes your position is considerably weaker.
I suggest you take a look at new articles coming out everyday about "staged atrocities" in Kosovo and how Albanians made themselfs out to be victims of Serbs in order to paint the image of "another Bosnia" in the balkan to rally support against the already demonized Serbs.

The Serbs have been wronged and the time has come for justice.

It is finally coming to light among many articles on the internet that something has gone wrong in Kosovo in terms of the way it has been handled and that independance is no longer a viable solution which is good for Europe. As more countries decide that this dismembering of Serbia is wrong and a compramise must be reached it is coming to light that Albanians in Kosovo are unwilling to compramise because of a couple of very weak strings they can pull.

-US backing for a end to a drain on their energy, I.e a quick solution to keep Albanians happy.

-Threats of violence from Kosovo islamist leaders along with Macedonian ones.

-Continued persecution of Serbs in Kosovo and anti-serb rhetoric.

The fact is that Kosovo is not going to be a country and the best solution and probably the only one which will result in Kosovo ever becoming a viable state is if it joins with Albania, which has already been ruled out.

It looks like Albanians might finally have to compromise.

The article states in part that “He told the BBC that, "Interestingly, on the subject of a (unilateral) proclamation of independence, the split doesn’t run along east-west European lines. Spain, Romania, Slovakia, and even Great Britain all have their doubts." He forgets Serbia, Russia, Holland and I am sure many others. To paraphrase an old Turkish proverb they are all afraid that chickens will come home to roost as they always do.

"...even Great Britain all have their doubts"

Eyal is spot on with regards the UK position as it has been distancing itself further away from the debt laden imperialistic US. I very much doubt the US would go it alone and hence the thundering silence of Wisner recently. Why can't Ceku be honest about what he was informed when he visited the US i.e. there will be no US recognition of an illegal unilateral declaration if the EU are not on board (which they are not) and if the ethnic-Albanian leadership do so it would immediatly prompt NATO withdrawal!

Lazer
He is actually undermining the resolve of Kosovan Peoples, and US.


Are you sure its not the other way around?

PS I hope you are not serious when you say US will fund u and deffend you by themselves. CCCC

KS

Serbia would be paying Kosovo debt off if it were collecting taxes from Kosovo. Since for now we are not then that hardly makes any sence.

As for your analogy of USAID, I can guarantee you its completely wrong. The biggest problem with US is that their banks make money and not their government. The US dollar is currently valued at $0.04US. Meaning that the banks have made too much money to try and retain the value of the US currency.

Since you are so well educated then you know that paper money is worthless. It is a physical representation of the actual currency.... which is GOLD. So since the law for taxetion and rules of taxation, as well as IRS were formed in 1919 the US governement has slowly lost all control over the national reserves. HENCE, they cannot pass any bill that the banks dont feel will pay off for them in the long run.

How does it all relate to Kosovo? If they spend 130-150 bilion dollars over the next 5 years after unilaterally recognising Kosovo (which is the bear minimum with the population of 50% under the age of 20). They will have to wait for the next, roughly 800 years to make their money back. Without investing anymore ofcourse and not including any interest they might hit u with.

THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY USAID.

Im not saying Americans are dumb. On the contrary, they are worthy opponents. Just look at you, they have convinced you that a NATO supervised Kosovo, is better then an autonomus Kosovo within Serbian borders inside EU as well as also monitored by them. Which would actually help your economy and infrastructure. Albans are the only people in the world fighting for less rights. I can guarantee you, whoever though this up, wakes up every morning laughing at you.

CCCC

The time has come for Europe to unite and not to create new borders.The US will not act wrecklessly without EU unanimity.

oh wow.
KS is giving us lessons in economy!

KS, instead you should think of how fragile the US-economy is...just think of the dollar-reserves in chinese hands...

you seem to be dreaming... but you will wake up sooner or later, that´s for sure.

Countries other than RU!?
How odd!
If you read US/UK sponsored Media outlets you would assume it is only the (evil) Russia preventing the Western Balkan from becoming a “nice , tranquil and prosperous region”.
Serb-free, mind you – but who cares.
The truth is different. Quite.
It is ONLY THE FOLLOWING countries who DO want the amputation of Kosovo: U.S. , U.K., Germany and (to some degree) France – not the other way around.

Laki NY, before you say that Eyal is so wrong, you might like to consider that he is generally recognised to be one of the leading international experts on the region. He is also a long-standing advisor to various British government departments, and also other governments, on the Balkans. It is therefore fair to say that he in fact knows much more about the international political dimensions of the Kosovo issue than you do!

What a good news for Kate

There are some supporters of the soon to be replaced Kosovo Albanian junta here that are confused about who they are and where they live. In one post they think they're Americans in America, in the next they're Serbian Albanians in Kosovo and then they're Albanians in an imaginary Greater Albania.

What seems to trigger these identity crises is the sheer number of coherent, well written posts by Serbs and other posters that do not support the Kosovo Albanian separatists.

Even Jonathan Eyal, a commentator who has certainly not supported Serbia as a matter of course in the past, seems to have triggered an episode.

For those confused posters;

Your ethnicity doesn't matter.
Your nationality doesn't matter.
Your country of residence doesn't matter.
Your educational or vocational qualifications don’t matter.

What does matter is that you present valid arguments supported by facts and logic.

Put your prejudices aside and learn from the excellent non-Albanian posts.

" That is why the analyst believes that the solution will be to give Kosovo a status similar to that of Taiwan. "

This is not the worst scenario for Kosovo. The worst scenario will be "wide autonomy" under Serbia. If what this guy says will be true than so be it. Serbs will have their revenge but they will never set foot on Kosovo. Serbia is only thrusting the mis-trust knife deeper and deeper into the relations of both nations. Once again Serbia lost its chance to reconcile for the maltreatment against K-albanians.

I am sure there will be countries in EU that will oppose the Kosovo/a INDEPENDENCE but we are gonna have to live without them.
Better believe it the US State Department will recognise Kosovo/a INDEPENDENCE. Americans go slowly but surely. The dont forget ATROCITIES committed by Serbian, army, police and paramilitaries.
How fast Europe forgets. But we dont.
US is the biggest contributor to IMF and the World Bank. If not passed in UNSC America will make sure that Kosovo/a gets its share of Investments and loans for developments.
Any case this guy Eyal, seems to be a bit unrealistic about reality on the ground and unwillingness of the population of Kosovo/a to stay with Serbia.
He is actually undermining the resolve of Kosovan Peoples, and US.
That is a big weight.

The analyst if off by a lot, there aren’t many EU states that wont support independence. There are only few countries that don’t support independence and we all know which EU states are those. As "...even Great Britain all have their doubts" , sorry mate but you are wrong, Britain was the stanch supporter of bombing serbia and is pro-independence for Kosova just as much as its USA. Princip enlighten us with your propaganda how UK’s new prime minster is anti US ,…. just put your finger in your head and think “UK going against US because “Serbia is upholding international law.” ! “

"So where is the "significant part of EU" that opposes the independence"

Herman, if you read the article clearly and carefully, you would see that it rests on unilateral declaration of independence. No EU country would recognize it, and if the US continues to push its own agenda, it would destabilize the EU's supposed unity. A negotiated settlement may be one thing, and many European countries have put their name to that. Bust unilateral declarations will not be met, as they should not be met. Pristina owes nothing to Europe that would warrant such a privilege.

just to inform the readers,
the glorious B92-censors just did it again...

only in case if you ask yourself why my comment above sounds like something is missing... they cut a whol paragraph out!

what´s the best, they do even get paid to do that!

Cvele don't try to educate me on my own COUNTRY, you live somewhere in a cushy N.Europe country and think that you know about all our AFFAIRS.

Your biggest mistake is that you didn't realize that America abandoned gold in 1991.
The reason why America and everyone in the world still uses the USD for exchange bc it represents value and trust, NOT BC we still need to back our USD with GOLD. We don't, and we never will.

You are trying to tell me that INDEPENDENCE is worse than autonomy? You must be in myth-land once again, Kosova will never fall under Serbian rule; mark my words.

Also where did you get that 150$ billion fact? It took only a few billion $ to rebuild around 90% of Kosova since 1999...why would it take 150billion? That makes NO SENSE.

You don't represent the US Government so please don't try to preach here about what America is going to do next, bc you have no clue. Worry about your terrorist-enforcing government that refuses to hand out war-criminals, hates NATO / WEST.

America's economy is in great shape, don't worry about it. Under 5% unemployment, thats 19/20 people working. Good stats.

KS you are also wrong. The world is on a free fluctuating exchange rate. Value of any currency is established by the demand for that currency. The higher the demand the more that currency is valued. This all comes down to trade. The more a country purchases from others the value of her currency falls in terms of other currencies. When the value falls the goods of that country become cheaper for others and they now trade or buy from it causing its currency to increase in value. You see when you buy in Canada you buy in our dollars so the more we sell to others the more demand for our dollar and the higher our dollar in terms of other currencies. This is true of all currencies.

KS, I live in Michigan and I say Cleve can stick his nose in our countries business. God knows how our goverment stuck it's nose in Serbias business much less Yugoslavias. He may know more than us, since europes education systems is far better than ours.

KS, perhaps you know quite a lot about the other American ways, but it is evident that you have no clue of legit American economy. First of all, United States does not have a central bank as you falsely claim. Federal Reserve is not a central bank, it is a consortium of private banks. Second, U.S. abandoned
gold standard in 1971, not 1991. The only reason why U.S. dollar does not collapse is because the oil trade is mostly in dollars. In order to buy oil, countries have to stash mostly worthless dollar.
That's why Saddam had to go, when he decided to trade Iraqi oil in Euro.
Third, your idea that Kosovo Albanians can continue to live on dole, like they lived in Tito's time, this time American, is naive to anyone who knows how American economy works. You can get five cents, if you have something worth a buck.

Since Kosovo Albanians know that Kosovo is not theirs, they might well be tempted to such transaction.

Princip, I don't know where you get this unwanted character or interfering in our (US) business. Especially since you are not in position to do so, second of name-calling us based on our financial system.

Since serb-camp doesn't know much about the American monetary system I will teach you.

America's money isn't made in the mint factories. It is, but somewhere between 5-20%. The rest are made in BANKS as loans. When I get a loan from the bank the bank doesn't need to have that much money in it's vault, or gold. If too many people came to collect their money the Central Bank of America reimburses these banks. In fact a bank can land as much as 30:1 (30$ when it only has 1$) even when it doesn't have it.

Since this is complicated to understand, the idea revolves that DEBT = MONEY. If no debt, than there is no money.
The American system isn't the best but it surely works much better than money based on gold or silver. This system has been for a long time, and the American debt has been with us for at least a hundred years.

Please don't make the debt seem like it's a bad thing. Look up in wikipedia and you will see countries such as japan that lowered their debt but their economy didn't prosper at all.

Cvele it's called USAID.

Kosova doesn't expect anyone to help us. Since Kosova = Serbia than why is Serbia not paying it's debt to org such as Paris club? But anyways, besides the point with independence we will get help from IMF and other org. Unlike you, we will pay our debt.

@ B92
I think the title that you have chosen for this article is not correct.
In his comments Eyal list 3 countries out of 27 and has his doubts about United Kingdom. Even Slovakia couple of months ago stated that they will support EU decision on Kosova.
So everything goes down to 2 countries, Spain and Romania.
I dont think the above countries will oppose an EU decision and EU has stated clearly that supports Mr. Ahtisaari's plan.
So where is the "significant part of EU" that opposes the independence

Everyone seems to forget that the US promised the Albanians INDEPENDENCE, right in their own capital this summer.

Now, does anybody think that the US will upset them with a "Taiwan status", risking the excellent relationship the two countries have?

That's like saying, Russia betraying Serbia.

Eyel was against NATO's bombing of Serbia in 1999 and it looks like he has not changed his mind since. His views do not change anything. It surely gives hope to Serb posters here, but no more than that.

Cvele don't try to educate me on my own COUNTRY, you live somewhere in a cushy N.Europe country and think that you know about all our AFFAIRS.

Your biggest mistake is that you didn't realize that America abandoned gold in 1991.
The reason why America and everyone in the world still uses the USD for exchange bc it represents value and trust, NOT BC we still need to back our USD with GOLD. We don't, and we never will.

You are trying to tell me that INDEPENDENCE is worse than autonomy? You must be in myth-land once again, Kosova will never fall under Serbian rule; mark my words.

Also where did you get that 150$ billion fact? It took only a few billion $ to rebuild around 90% of Kosova since 1999...why would it take 150billion? That makes NO SENSE.

You don't represent the US Government so please don't try to preach here about what America is going to do next, bc you have no clue. Worry about your terrorist-enforcing government that refuses to hand out war-criminals, hates NATO / WEST.

America's economy is in great shape, don't worry about it. Under 5% unemployment, thats 19/20 people working. Good stats.

" That is why the analyst believes that the solution will be to give Kosovo a status similar to that of Taiwan. "

This is not the worst scenario for Kosovo. The worst scenario will be "wide autonomy" under Serbia. If what this guy says will be true than so be it. Serbs will have their revenge but they will never set foot on Kosovo. Serbia is only thrusting the mis-trust knife deeper and deeper into the relations of both nations. Once again Serbia lost its chance to reconcile for the maltreatment against K-albanians.

The analyst if off by a lot, there aren’t many EU states that wont support independence. There are only few countries that don’t support independence and we all know which EU states are those. As "...even Great Britain all have their doubts" , sorry mate but you are wrong, Britain was the stanch supporter of bombing serbia and is pro-independence for Kosova just as much as its USA. Princip enlighten us with your propaganda how UK’s new prime minster is anti US ,…. just put your finger in your head and think “UK going against US because “Serbia is upholding international law.” ! “

I am sure there will be countries in EU that will oppose the Kosovo/a INDEPENDENCE but we are gonna have to live without them.
Better believe it the US State Department will recognise Kosovo/a INDEPENDENCE. Americans go slowly but surely. The dont forget ATROCITIES committed by Serbian, army, police and paramilitaries.
How fast Europe forgets. But we dont.
US is the biggest contributor to IMF and the World Bank. If not passed in UNSC America will make sure that Kosovo/a gets its share of Investments and loans for developments.
Any case this guy Eyal, seems to be a bit unrealistic about reality on the ground and unwillingness of the population of Kosovo/a to stay with Serbia.
He is actually undermining the resolve of Kosovan Peoples, and US.
That is a big weight.

Princip, I don't know where you get this unwanted character or interfering in our (US) business. Especially since you are not in position to do so, second of name-calling us based on our financial system.

Since serb-camp doesn't know much about the American monetary system I will teach you.

America's money isn't made in the mint factories. It is, but somewhere between 5-20%. The rest are made in BANKS as loans. When I get a loan from the bank the bank doesn't need to have that much money in it's vault, or gold. If too many people came to collect their money the Central Bank of America reimburses these banks. In fact a bank can land as much as 30:1 (30$ when it only has 1$) even when it doesn't have it.

Since this is complicated to understand, the idea revolves that DEBT = MONEY. If no debt, than there is no money.
The American system isn't the best but it surely works much better than money based on gold or silver. This system has been for a long time, and the American debt has been with us for at least a hundred years.

Please don't make the debt seem like it's a bad thing. Look up in wikipedia and you will see countries such as japan that lowered their debt but their economy didn't prosper at all.

What a good news for Kate

Cvele it's called USAID.

Kosova doesn't expect anyone to help us. Since Kosova = Serbia than why is Serbia not paying it's debt to org such as Paris club? But anyways, besides the point with independence we will get help from IMF and other org. Unlike you, we will pay our debt.

It is finally coming to light among many articles on the internet that something has gone wrong in Kosovo in terms of the way it has been handled and that independance is no longer a viable solution which is good for Europe. As more countries decide that this dismembering of Serbia is wrong and a compramise must be reached it is coming to light that Albanians in Kosovo are unwilling to compramise because of a couple of very weak strings they can pull.

-US backing for a end to a drain on their energy, I.e a quick solution to keep Albanians happy.

-Threats of violence from Kosovo islamist leaders along with Macedonian ones.

-Continued persecution of Serbs in Kosovo and anti-serb rhetoric.

The fact is that Kosovo is not going to be a country and the best solution and probably the only one which will result in Kosovo ever becoming a viable state is if it joins with Albania, which has already been ruled out.

It looks like Albanians might finally have to compromise.

KS

Serbia would be paying Kosovo debt off if it were collecting taxes from Kosovo. Since for now we are not then that hardly makes any sence.

As for your analogy of USAID, I can guarantee you its completely wrong. The biggest problem with US is that their banks make money and not their government. The US dollar is currently valued at $0.04US. Meaning that the banks have made too much money to try and retain the value of the US currency.

Since you are so well educated then you know that paper money is worthless. It is a physical representation of the actual currency.... which is GOLD. So since the law for taxetion and rules of taxation, as well as IRS were formed in 1919 the US governement has slowly lost all control over the national reserves. HENCE, they cannot pass any bill that the banks dont feel will pay off for them in the long run.

How does it all relate to Kosovo? If they spend 130-150 bilion dollars over the next 5 years after unilaterally recognising Kosovo (which is the bear minimum with the population of 50% under the age of 20). They will have to wait for the next, roughly 800 years to make their money back. Without investing anymore ofcourse and not including any interest they might hit u with.

THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY USAID.

Im not saying Americans are dumb. On the contrary, they are worthy opponents. Just look at you, they have convinced you that a NATO supervised Kosovo, is better then an autonomus Kosovo within Serbian borders inside EU as well as also monitored by them. Which would actually help your economy and infrastructure. Albans are the only people in the world fighting for less rights. I can guarantee you, whoever though this up, wakes up every morning laughing at you.

CCCC

@ B92
I think the title that you have chosen for this article is not correct.
In his comments Eyal list 3 countries out of 27 and has his doubts about United Kingdom. Even Slovakia couple of months ago stated that they will support EU decision on Kosova.
So everything goes down to 2 countries, Spain and Romania.
I dont think the above countries will oppose an EU decision and EU has stated clearly that supports Mr. Ahtisaari's plan.
So where is the "significant part of EU" that opposes the independence

Everyone seems to forget that the US promised the Albanians INDEPENDENCE, right in their own capital this summer.

Now, does anybody think that the US will upset them with a "Taiwan status", risking the excellent relationship the two countries have?

That's like saying, Russia betraying Serbia.

Eyel was against NATO's bombing of Serbia in 1999 and it looks like he has not changed his mind since. His views do not change anything. It surely gives hope to Serb posters here, but no more than that.

There are some supporters of the soon to be replaced Kosovo Albanian junta here that are confused about who they are and where they live. In one post they think they're Americans in America, in the next they're Serbian Albanians in Kosovo and then they're Albanians in an imaginary Greater Albania.

What seems to trigger these identity crises is the sheer number of coherent, well written posts by Serbs and other posters that do not support the Kosovo Albanian separatists.

Even Jonathan Eyal, a commentator who has certainly not supported Serbia as a matter of course in the past, seems to have triggered an episode.

For those confused posters;

Your ethnicity doesn't matter.
Your nationality doesn't matter.
Your country of residence doesn't matter.
Your educational or vocational qualifications don’t matter.

What does matter is that you present valid arguments supported by facts and logic.

Put your prejudices aside and learn from the excellent non-Albanian posts.

The article states in part that “He told the BBC that, "Interestingly, on the subject of a (unilateral) proclamation of independence, the split doesn’t run along east-west European lines. Spain, Romania, Slovakia, and even Great Britain all have their doubts." He forgets Serbia, Russia, Holland and I am sure many others. To paraphrase an old Turkish proverb they are all afraid that chickens will come home to roost as they always do.

"...even Great Britain all have their doubts"

Eyal is spot on with regards the UK position as it has been distancing itself further away from the debt laden imperialistic US. I very much doubt the US would go it alone and hence the thundering silence of Wisner recently. Why can't Ceku be honest about what he was informed when he visited the US i.e. there will be no US recognition of an illegal unilateral declaration if the EU are not on board (which they are not) and if the ethnic-Albanian leadership do so it would immediatly prompt NATO withdrawal!

Im sorry Lazer what you have said is neither realistic or reasonable. The US is not going to single handedly finance the development of Kosovo. Neither is Kosovo going to be able to handle any investments since it is not stable enough to recieve them.

I suggest you read what I have written above and realise that the US is not God. Europe is Europe and has nothing to do with the US.

Claiming atrocities by Serbs, well they are greatly outnumbered by those commited by Serbs and considering no Serbs have been welcomed back to their homes your position is considerably weaker.
I suggest you take a look at new articles coming out everyday about "staged atrocities" in Kosovo and how Albanians made themselfs out to be victims of Serbs in order to paint the image of "another Bosnia" in the balkan to rally support against the already demonized Serbs.

The Serbs have been wronged and the time has come for justice.

Countries other than RU!?
How odd!
If you read US/UK sponsored Media outlets you would assume it is only the (evil) Russia preventing the Western Balkan from becoming a “nice , tranquil and prosperous region”.
Serb-free, mind you – but who cares.
The truth is different. Quite.
It is ONLY THE FOLLOWING countries who DO want the amputation of Kosovo: U.S. , U.K., Germany and (to some degree) France – not the other way around.

The time has come for Europe to unite and not to create new borders.The US will not act wrecklessly without EU unanimity.

Lazer
He is actually undermining the resolve of Kosovan Peoples, and US.


Are you sure its not the other way around?

PS I hope you are not serious when you say US will fund u and deffend you by themselves. CCCC

oh wow.
KS is giving us lessons in economy!

KS, instead you should think of how fragile the US-economy is...just think of the dollar-reserves in chinese hands...

you seem to be dreaming... but you will wake up sooner or later, that´s for sure.

Laki NY, before you say that Eyal is so wrong, you might like to consider that he is generally recognised to be one of the leading international experts on the region. He is also a long-standing advisor to various British government departments, and also other governments, on the Balkans. It is therefore fair to say that he in fact knows much more about the international political dimensions of the Kosovo issue than you do!

"So where is the "significant part of EU" that opposes the independence"

Herman, if you read the article clearly and carefully, you would see that it rests on unilateral declaration of independence. No EU country would recognize it, and if the US continues to push its own agenda, it would destabilize the EU's supposed unity. A negotiated settlement may be one thing, and many European countries have put their name to that. Bust unilateral declarations will not be met, as they should not be met. Pristina owes nothing to Europe that would warrant such a privilege.

just to inform the readers,
the glorious B92-censors just did it again...

only in case if you ask yourself why my comment above sounds like something is missing... they cut a whol paragraph out!

what´s the best, they do even get paid to do that!

KS, I live in Michigan and I say Cleve can stick his nose in our countries business. God knows how our goverment stuck it's nose in Serbias business much less Yugoslavias. He may know more than us, since europes education systems is far better than ours.

KS, perhaps you know quite a lot about the other American ways, but it is evident that you have no clue of legit American economy. First of all, United States does not have a central bank as you falsely claim. Federal Reserve is not a central bank, it is a consortium of private banks. Second, U.S. abandoned
gold standard in 1971, not 1991. The only reason why U.S. dollar does not collapse is because the oil trade is mostly in dollars. In order to buy oil, countries have to stash mostly worthless dollar.
That's why Saddam had to go, when he decided to trade Iraqi oil in Euro.
Third, your idea that Kosovo Albanians can continue to live on dole, like they lived in Tito's time, this time American, is naive to anyone who knows how American economy works. You can get five cents, if you have something worth a buck.

Since Kosovo Albanians know that Kosovo is not theirs, they might well be tempted to such transaction.

KS you are also wrong. The world is on a free fluctuating exchange rate. Value of any currency is established by the demand for that currency. The higher the demand the more that currency is valued. This all comes down to trade. The more a country purchases from others the value of her currency falls in terms of other currencies. When the value falls the goods of that country become cheaper for others and they now trade or buy from it causing its currency to increase in value. You see when you buy in Canada you buy in our dollars so the more we sell to others the more demand for our dollar and the higher our dollar in terms of other currencies. This is true of all currencies.