DSS opposes NATO membership

To all people here and elsewhere, whether read this, or not.

I call all the guys here and elsewhere in Kosova and Serbia to restrain oneself from these kinds of adventures! We, all, live in these “conditions” since 1989 thereafter. Just to refresh you all: we had all possible isolations, embargo, our famous companies went down at once, we had over 1.000.000 people left without their jobs during this timeframe, living conditions went drastically down, silly wars in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosova, while people of the government in BG had more than ever benefits – Cyprus bank accounts.
From 1989 till now are18 long years, what consist a huge period of the average human life. What do you people think, to live like this forever? Current BG politics, calling for freezing relations with the entire world, will definitely lead back to ‘90ies, unfortunately not only Serbia, but surely entire Balkans, including Kosova.
We, Kosovari, definitely do not want that, neither Serbs living in Kosova surely.
So, think of that people, life is too short for these kinds of adventures. I, personally, do not want to give away another 18 years of my live to silly politicians, that will surely benefit from all these kinds of “politics”, as they are not in a position to improve citizens live, but using current trend, pretending defending Kosova, are confusing their people.
So, people, do not give you contribution and support on that.

What benefit does Serbia have in joining NATO, an organisation that broke international law and its own charter in bombing Serbia and occupying its southern province. Its like getting shacked up with your rapist. Can anybody here extole what economic benefits there are for Serbia to join NATO?

Well don DSS, keep making same mistakes. I would love to see Serbia sinking further down as it is at present. I feel sorry for the people Serbia though as a human being, but there were never better times for KOSOVA.
Ximi, London

Well DSS is right you can not have the head in Russia and tail in NATO. There is choice to be made so DSS did a very good choice and by this they indirectly help our Kosova independence, so good luck DSS, this reminds everybody the Milosevician days when he use to organize this type of referendums only with one purpose to make all Serbs successors of their failure, so DSS is using the same format that their previous rulers used. Good luck, I hope the DSS will declare war against NATO one more time in that way some countries that still doesn't see the whole Serbian picture will be convinced.

It is apparent that EU is trying their bit in an attempt to resolve this Kosovo mess. So is official Belgrade. And , to best of their ability Albanians who live on Kosovo to some degree. The only one who is sabotaging this process is – guess who? Well it is not Russia for all the “hoo-hah” some Media outlets try to portray.
It is the U.S.
U.S. officials are virtually guaranteeing that the talks will fail by promising U.S. unconditional recognition of an independent Kosovo even if it is done against every international law U.S. so fondly calls upon whenever in trouble them selves.
NATO is the U.S. plus some key-chain countries attached.
SO, is it any wonder Serbs do not necessarily jump with joy and volunteer to join the alliance effectively working on removing Serbia from existence?!

Doesnt anybody think its a bit late to be issuing statements like this?

I mean DSS took us into NATO Partnership for Peace (associate membership of NATO) in the first place.

Now, years after NATO bombardment, years after Kosovo became occupied by internationals, suddenly DSS decides it decides it is against NATO memebership.

Something stinks. And if DSS thinks it can pick up Radical Party supporters it should think again. Why have a pale imitation when you can vote for the real thing. When will they ever learn?

Nato and the POP are different things. As members of NATO you are a signotary of the POP but individual nations that are not can join the POP. Russia is currently a member of the POP but i do not see it in the future joining NATO. Serbia could do the same thing, just be a member of POP and not being an outsider on the fringe.

Should Serbia join NATO? That is a difficult question which will need a lot of public debate about the pro's and con's of joining. Will it be benefitial for Serbia in the long term for both economic reasons and security? The decision has to be made by the general public in a referendum. However they need to know the facts to make a value judgement decision.

Serbia currently has mixed relationship with the international community and is stuck in limbo in whether to join the US or Russia. Both sides can be played to Serbia's advantage but only if politicians start thinking about the nation and not about personal gain.

Kostunica & Co are very smart, just go on my dear neighbour.

In fact, I would like to see a referendoom about this. So the world could see wheather there are radikals (DSS) who are still blind and in darkness or there is a whole nation who just can't wake up and see the future. I believe is USA and especially EU's fault, who didn't clearly tell Serbs back in 1999, that they lost any rights about Kosova, but by not being direct let Serbs believe that they might still rule Kosovo. Serbia can only benefit from Kosova indipendence

Who is threating who?
UCK/OVK : Give us indepedence or else!
Serbs : we will never give upp Kosovo i Metohija!
UCK/OVK : GIVE US INDEPEDENCE NOW OR VIOLENCE WILL BRAKE OUT!.

dont come and say thats not true, the world is seeing who is the bad guy here, who is threating who

bganon
Doesnt anybody think its a bit late to be issuing statements like this?


No, I dont think it is. This is a threat to NATO/US recognising Kosovo. So it would be to late if they already have. But now they have been warned.

No, I dont think it is. This is a threat to NATO/US recognising Kosovo. So it would be to late if they already have. But now they have been warned.
(Cvele, 4. September 2007 15:51)

Serbia is threatning NATO! What a joke. I am loving this. The Kosovar's are loving how Belgrade is taking itself down by showing the world it's "democracy." So the logic in Belgrade is, "if you're not with us, we'll kill you?" How is the world suppose to let you govern 1 cm of Kosova when you are evil in intent?

Wow Cvele! You made me lough again. Serbia treatening NATO!! This is a good one. A fly is treatening an elephant.
Do you expect a mood of crisis and heart palpitations at NATO headquarters? It shows me how much you are detached of all reality.

It seems everyone is concerned about Kosovo future but the reallity is only Kosovars(people who live in Kosovo)are the one who are being the tool of Serbia and Russia in order to gain political power as withing a state and internationally.
Serbia's population are choosing to follow their leaders who do not have to do anything like economically or financially to fight the poverty but only with Kosovo issue (even after Milosevic era now kind of democracy)they can win their seats.More radical you are more seats you get in BG.
I wonder why Cvele and Jovan do not form a party, I am sure they will get most of the votes.
Lets sort out the last parts of Yugoslavia and live in peace and prosperity.
By they way Predictor made some good points about our past and yes I would agree we all think and make better future 4everyone.

"What benefit does Serbia have in joining NATO, an organisation that broke international law and its own charter in bombing Serbia and occupying its southern province. Its like getting shacked up with your rapist. Can anybody here extole what economic benefits there are for Serbia to join NATO?@
(Niall O'Doherty, Ireland, 4. September 2007 13:30)

First on your question, Niall, all countries that joined NATO are better off today. Why?

First, because the threat from foreign invasion and war is pretty much gone. The Russians simply will not test NATO resolve by invading an annoying Baltic country or the like. This reduces country risk and encourages investment and economic activity. NATO simply brings peace. Being part of NATO even former enemies do not dare to fight. Despite all the noise, Greece and Turkey will probably not resort to war, nor will Hungary and Romania, and so on.

Second, to join NATO, countries in PfP are required to reform their security sector, making it more transparent and subject to civilian and democratic oversight. This reduces the probability of internal coups, and in turn, reduces country risk and generates investment confidence. That is why NATO accession is often seen as a good complement and precursor to EU entry.

But joining NATO does not just make good economic sense. It is also good for Serbia's security interests. It ll make sure that its neighbors do not poke at it with provocations, much less bomb it again. I will say bluntly that saying Serbia should stay out of NATO is one of the stupidest and most irresponsible thing that any Serb patriot or anyone caring about Serbia could say. Just imagine: Albania will be in NATO, Croatia will be in NATO, all of Serbia's formal rivals and enemies, and all its neighbors will be in NATO. Many of these have some form of dispute with Serbia, and Serbia wants to stay out of NATO?! This should be a motivator for getting IN, not staying out!

Just remember that if Serbia wants NATO to work for it, you will have to join it. Despite their sympathy and protest, your Greek allies never did anything for Serbia in 1999. Despite, its nuclear weapons and oil wealth, do not expect Russia to come to Serbia's defense if something really heavy comes down again. Serbia has to be smart, it has to join NATO and the EU.

NATO did many mistakes, but staying out of NATO is the biggest mistake Serbia could make. NATO is encouraging Serbia to work with NATO and even join it eventually. It is not so it can put bases in Serbia or the like. Those that argue so are full of hogwash since NATO already has bases in Italy, Romania and much more strategic areas. Instead, NATO is encouraging Serbian participation (and even eventual entry) in NATO because it wants to make amends for the wars of the past. Serbia should take them up on it. The Germans accepted a French, American , British, Belgian and Dutch offer to join NATO and were able to make peace with the countries that bombed it to the ground. Serbia may not have done what Germany did during WWII but it should not reject a lasting offer for peace that is in its best interests.

Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Finaland, Ireland have what in common?

They are all prosperous Western European states which are not in NATO.

Serbia should join this club of prosperous, neutral states. IT IS POSSIBLE!

all the parties for america can be exchanged by the patriotic block through vojo within 5 minutes, as we have seen in the coalition talks.

ds17+ - or however they call themself - will therfore continue to do as vojo tells them, or take a seat next to ldp/jovanovic.

there then they can have a hell of good and right ideas "for serbia" for the next 3 years and watch politics in tv.

I guess G17 Plus will be replaced by SRS in the government coalition.
Good luck Srbija...

I meant PfP not POP

To clear things up-

Ireland, Sweden, Finland, and Austria are in the EU but not in NATO. Switzerland is not in either. All are prosperous- but not before the 1990s, as that is when the "Irish economic miracle" occurred.

Ireland currently is semi-occupied by Great Britian in the north- so that would mean that it is under security threat. 100% of Irish in the south have this opinion and historically Northern Ireland is an artificial creation based on colonial exploitation- just like Kosovo.

If you think NATO is so benevolent and peacefull tell me why it may be so important for it to expand into Serbia? The only reality check is on your part which is that NATO's goal in the Rambouliett Accords was to occupy all of Serbia militarily, create an independent Kosovo within 3 years via a referendum, and do all of this outside the UN and also the Parliaments of many NATO states (ie. US Congress which never approved the war). The wider plan is to use this as a pretext to advance upon, surround, and ultimately dismember through separatism the various regional republics of the Russian Federation through seaparatist/terrorist movements like in Chechnya.

NATO can stay out of Serbia until they prove they are committed to peace in the Balkans and respect to borders and peoples they mercilessly attacked years ago.

"Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Finaland, Ireland have what in common?

They are all prosperous Western European states which are not in NATO.

Serbia should join this club of prosperous, neutral states. IT IS POSSIBLE!"

Toronto, sorry to say but that is just outright bologne.

First of all, all of the countries you mention were democratic and prosperous before the 1990's to begin with. So joining NATO would not have added anything to security sector reform. Also none of these countries had a looming threat from Russia. Not even Finland, since it had developed a special relationship with Russia over the decades.

Second, what in heavens IS 'neutrality'? Sweden sends troops to AFG to KOS as part of NATO. Ireland and Finland will join Sweden's lead to form the EU Nordic Battlegroup, a unit that is ready to fight in combat. All of these countries, as well as CH are in PfP, and active participants at that. Yeah, you can argue that Serbia can be 'neutral', but it will not go very far, whatever being 'neutral' means.

I'll rub in that Sweden's president has even barred the term 'neutral' from official use. Finland talks about joining NATO, and Ireland and Austria do not have potentially aggressive neighbors anywhere close.

Serbia simply belongs in Europe and needs to be part of the European and transatlantic institutions. It needs to be part of the greatest and most enduring alliance in history. It's called NATO and it's best for Serbia that it join it.

If you re still not convinced, and care about Serbia, Toronto, let me just ask: Can I do anything to treat you to a reality check?

Dear Toronto 1,
Austria, Finland, Sweden and Ireland form the European Union along with other 21 countries.
Switzerland is the only one among the countries you cited which is outside NATO or EU and it is a little difficult to compare Serbia to Switzerland.
In my opinion Serbia will stay out from EU/NATO for a long time because of Belgrade's reactions to the probable Kosovo independence declaration.

Well don DSS, keep making same mistakes. I would love to see Serbia sinking further down as it is at present. I feel sorry for the people Serbia though as a human being, but there were never better times for KOSOVA.
Ximi, London

No, I dont think it is. This is a threat to NATO/US recognising Kosovo. So it would be to late if they already have. But now they have been warned.
(Cvele, 4. September 2007 15:51)

Serbia is threatning NATO! What a joke. I am loving this. The Kosovar's are loving how Belgrade is taking itself down by showing the world it's "democracy." So the logic in Belgrade is, "if you're not with us, we'll kill you?" How is the world suppose to let you govern 1 cm of Kosova when you are evil in intent?

In fact, I would like to see a referendoom about this. So the world could see wheather there are radikals (DSS) who are still blind and in darkness or there is a whole nation who just can't wake up and see the future. I believe is USA and especially EU's fault, who didn't clearly tell Serbs back in 1999, that they lost any rights about Kosova, but by not being direct let Serbs believe that they might still rule Kosovo. Serbia can only benefit from Kosova indipendence

Well DSS is right you can not have the head in Russia and tail in NATO. There is choice to be made so DSS did a very good choice and by this they indirectly help our Kosova independence, so good luck DSS, this reminds everybody the Milosevician days when he use to organize this type of referendums only with one purpose to make all Serbs successors of their failure, so DSS is using the same format that their previous rulers used. Good luck, I hope the DSS will declare war against NATO one more time in that way some countries that still doesn't see the whole Serbian picture will be convinced.

Wow Cvele! You made me lough again. Serbia treatening NATO!! This is a good one. A fly is treatening an elephant.
Do you expect a mood of crisis and heart palpitations at NATO headquarters? It shows me how much you are detached of all reality.

What benefit does Serbia have in joining NATO, an organisation that broke international law and its own charter in bombing Serbia and occupying its southern province. Its like getting shacked up with your rapist. Can anybody here extole what economic benefits there are for Serbia to join NATO?

To all people here and elsewhere, whether read this, or not.

I call all the guys here and elsewhere in Kosova and Serbia to restrain oneself from these kinds of adventures! We, all, live in these “conditions” since 1989 thereafter. Just to refresh you all: we had all possible isolations, embargo, our famous companies went down at once, we had over 1.000.000 people left without their jobs during this timeframe, living conditions went drastically down, silly wars in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosova, while people of the government in BG had more than ever benefits – Cyprus bank accounts.
From 1989 till now are18 long years, what consist a huge period of the average human life. What do you people think, to live like this forever? Current BG politics, calling for freezing relations with the entire world, will definitely lead back to ‘90ies, unfortunately not only Serbia, but surely entire Balkans, including Kosova.
We, Kosovari, definitely do not want that, neither Serbs living in Kosova surely.
So, think of that people, life is too short for these kinds of adventures. I, personally, do not want to give away another 18 years of my live to silly politicians, that will surely benefit from all these kinds of “politics”, as they are not in a position to improve citizens live, but using current trend, pretending defending Kosova, are confusing their people.
So, people, do not give you contribution and support on that.

It seems everyone is concerned about Kosovo future but the reallity is only Kosovars(people who live in Kosovo)are the one who are being the tool of Serbia and Russia in order to gain political power as withing a state and internationally.
Serbia's population are choosing to follow their leaders who do not have to do anything like economically or financially to fight the poverty but only with Kosovo issue (even after Milosevic era now kind of democracy)they can win their seats.More radical you are more seats you get in BG.
I wonder why Cvele and Jovan do not form a party, I am sure they will get most of the votes.
Lets sort out the last parts of Yugoslavia and live in peace and prosperity.
By they way Predictor made some good points about our past and yes I would agree we all think and make better future 4everyone.

"What benefit does Serbia have in joining NATO, an organisation that broke international law and its own charter in bombing Serbia and occupying its southern province. Its like getting shacked up with your rapist. Can anybody here extole what economic benefits there are for Serbia to join NATO?@
(Niall O'Doherty, Ireland, 4. September 2007 13:30)

First on your question, Niall, all countries that joined NATO are better off today. Why?

First, because the threat from foreign invasion and war is pretty much gone. The Russians simply will not test NATO resolve by invading an annoying Baltic country or the like. This reduces country risk and encourages investment and economic activity. NATO simply brings peace. Being part of NATO even former enemies do not dare to fight. Despite all the noise, Greece and Turkey will probably not resort to war, nor will Hungary and Romania, and so on.

Second, to join NATO, countries in PfP are required to reform their security sector, making it more transparent and subject to civilian and democratic oversight. This reduces the probability of internal coups, and in turn, reduces country risk and generates investment confidence. That is why NATO accession is often seen as a good complement and precursor to EU entry.

But joining NATO does not just make good economic sense. It is also good for Serbia's security interests. It ll make sure that its neighbors do not poke at it with provocations, much less bomb it again. I will say bluntly that saying Serbia should stay out of NATO is one of the stupidest and most irresponsible thing that any Serb patriot or anyone caring about Serbia could say. Just imagine: Albania will be in NATO, Croatia will be in NATO, all of Serbia's formal rivals and enemies, and all its neighbors will be in NATO. Many of these have some form of dispute with Serbia, and Serbia wants to stay out of NATO?! This should be a motivator for getting IN, not staying out!

Just remember that if Serbia wants NATO to work for it, you will have to join it. Despite their sympathy and protest, your Greek allies never did anything for Serbia in 1999. Despite, its nuclear weapons and oil wealth, do not expect Russia to come to Serbia's defense if something really heavy comes down again. Serbia has to be smart, it has to join NATO and the EU.

NATO did many mistakes, but staying out of NATO is the biggest mistake Serbia could make. NATO is encouraging Serbia to work with NATO and even join it eventually. It is not so it can put bases in Serbia or the like. Those that argue so are full of hogwash since NATO already has bases in Italy, Romania and much more strategic areas. Instead, NATO is encouraging Serbian participation (and even eventual entry) in NATO because it wants to make amends for the wars of the past. Serbia should take them up on it. The Germans accepted a French, American , British, Belgian and Dutch offer to join NATO and were able to make peace with the countries that bombed it to the ground. Serbia may not have done what Germany did during WWII but it should not reject a lasting offer for peace that is in its best interests.

all the parties for america can be exchanged by the patriotic block through vojo within 5 minutes, as we have seen in the coalition talks.

ds17+ - or however they call themself - will therfore continue to do as vojo tells them, or take a seat next to ldp/jovanovic.

there then they can have a hell of good and right ideas "for serbia" for the next 3 years and watch politics in tv.

I guess G17 Plus will be replaced by SRS in the government coalition.
Good luck Srbija...

Doesnt anybody think its a bit late to be issuing statements like this?

I mean DSS took us into NATO Partnership for Peace (associate membership of NATO) in the first place.

Now, years after NATO bombardment, years after Kosovo became occupied by internationals, suddenly DSS decides it decides it is against NATO memebership.

Something stinks. And if DSS thinks it can pick up Radical Party supporters it should think again. Why have a pale imitation when you can vote for the real thing. When will they ever learn?

Nato and the POP are different things. As members of NATO you are a signotary of the POP but individual nations that are not can join the POP. Russia is currently a member of the POP but i do not see it in the future joining NATO. Serbia could do the same thing, just be a member of POP and not being an outsider on the fringe.

Should Serbia join NATO? That is a difficult question which will need a lot of public debate about the pro's and con's of joining. Will it be benefitial for Serbia in the long term for both economic reasons and security? The decision has to be made by the general public in a referendum. However they need to know the facts to make a value judgement decision.

Serbia currently has mixed relationship with the international community and is stuck in limbo in whether to join the US or Russia. Both sides can be played to Serbia's advantage but only if politicians start thinking about the nation and not about personal gain.

I meant PfP not POP

Kostunica & Co are very smart, just go on my dear neighbour.

bganon
Doesnt anybody think its a bit late to be issuing statements like this?


No, I dont think it is. This is a threat to NATO/US recognising Kosovo. So it would be to late if they already have. But now they have been warned.

It is apparent that EU is trying their bit in an attempt to resolve this Kosovo mess. So is official Belgrade. And , to best of their ability Albanians who live on Kosovo to some degree. The only one who is sabotaging this process is – guess who? Well it is not Russia for all the “hoo-hah” some Media outlets try to portray.
It is the U.S.
U.S. officials are virtually guaranteeing that the talks will fail by promising U.S. unconditional recognition of an independent Kosovo even if it is done against every international law U.S. so fondly calls upon whenever in trouble them selves.
NATO is the U.S. plus some key-chain countries attached.
SO, is it any wonder Serbs do not necessarily jump with joy and volunteer to join the alliance effectively working on removing Serbia from existence?!

Who is threating who?
UCK/OVK : Give us indepedence or else!
Serbs : we will never give upp Kosovo i Metohija!
UCK/OVK : GIVE US INDEPEDENCE NOW OR VIOLENCE WILL BRAKE OUT!.

dont come and say thats not true, the world is seeing who is the bad guy here, who is threating who

Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Finaland, Ireland have what in common?

They are all prosperous Western European states which are not in NATO.

Serbia should join this club of prosperous, neutral states. IT IS POSSIBLE!

NATO can stay out of Serbia until they prove they are committed to peace in the Balkans and respect to borders and peoples they mercilessly attacked years ago.

"Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Finaland, Ireland have what in common?

They are all prosperous Western European states which are not in NATO.

Serbia should join this club of prosperous, neutral states. IT IS POSSIBLE!"

Toronto, sorry to say but that is just outright bologne.

First of all, all of the countries you mention were democratic and prosperous before the 1990's to begin with. So joining NATO would not have added anything to security sector reform. Also none of these countries had a looming threat from Russia. Not even Finland, since it had developed a special relationship with Russia over the decades.

Second, what in heavens IS 'neutrality'? Sweden sends troops to AFG to KOS as part of NATO. Ireland and Finland will join Sweden's lead to form the EU Nordic Battlegroup, a unit that is ready to fight in combat. All of these countries, as well as CH are in PfP, and active participants at that. Yeah, you can argue that Serbia can be 'neutral', but it will not go very far, whatever being 'neutral' means.

I'll rub in that Sweden's president has even barred the term 'neutral' from official use. Finland talks about joining NATO, and Ireland and Austria do not have potentially aggressive neighbors anywhere close.

Serbia simply belongs in Europe and needs to be part of the European and transatlantic institutions. It needs to be part of the greatest and most enduring alliance in history. It's called NATO and it's best for Serbia that it join it.

If you re still not convinced, and care about Serbia, Toronto, let me just ask: Can I do anything to treat you to a reality check?

Dear Toronto 1,
Austria, Finland, Sweden and Ireland form the European Union along with other 21 countries.
Switzerland is the only one among the countries you cited which is outside NATO or EU and it is a little difficult to compare Serbia to Switzerland.
In my opinion Serbia will stay out from EU/NATO for a long time because of Belgrade's reactions to the probable Kosovo independence declaration.

To clear things up-

Ireland, Sweden, Finland, and Austria are in the EU but not in NATO. Switzerland is not in either. All are prosperous- but not before the 1990s, as that is when the "Irish economic miracle" occurred.

Ireland currently is semi-occupied by Great Britian in the north- so that would mean that it is under security threat. 100% of Irish in the south have this opinion and historically Northern Ireland is an artificial creation based on colonial exploitation- just like Kosovo.

If you think NATO is so benevolent and peacefull tell me why it may be so important for it to expand into Serbia? The only reality check is on your part which is that NATO's goal in the Rambouliett Accords was to occupy all of Serbia militarily, create an independent Kosovo within 3 years via a referendum, and do all of this outside the UN and also the Parliaments of many NATO states (ie. US Congress which never approved the war). The wider plan is to use this as a pretext to advance upon, surround, and ultimately dismember through separatism the various regional republics of the Russian Federation through seaparatist/terrorist movements like in Chechnya.