well, Lazer, that´s the first time I read that an Albanian condemns that brutal beating.
I appreciate it, althoug it should go without a saying, in this case I say bravo for showing a first sign of bravery against violent cowards.
as to myself, I certainly cannot ask for respect of own cultural heritage if I do not respect others´heritage, monuments etc.
so, I think we shouldn´t be divided on this particular point.
poeple will come together again, I don´t doubt that, it takes a long time, I am sure, but it will happen.
and since it worked in other places, just remember France and Germany who fought for centuries up to WW II and now work together as friends, accept that it is not "kosova", it is Serbia, and you are just one citizen of it. and since it is all ending up within the EU... you should all come to reason and forget to think in 18th-century arguments, and start thinking of a better future for all poeple in that region.
to my fellow Serbian neighbors.
OK, we will see the final result for Kosovo Status. It is indepedence, nothing less.
U serbs need to wake up people, dont u see that even Vojvodina,bosnian region of Serbia, preshevo and bujanovc dont like to be a part of Serbia anymore. You people are destroying even your own country not to mention Kosova.
I promise you in 1 year Kosovo will be indepedent and Vojvodina issue will come to international attention.
Serbs, understand that you are not "special people" we all need to be equal and let go of nationalism.
Yeah, we know how you "HELP" your brethren.
Its people like you that make this very difficult.
You should be kicked out by Serbs not Albanians.
Is this kind of actions that brought up the break-up of Yugoslavia.
FYI, Kosovo/a is not going to be given, they will TAKE IT, the INDEPENDENCE.
"The Kosovar Serbs get along with Albanians better then Serbia's Serbs."
All Serbs defend their own. We Serbs in Serbia proper responded to the calls of our brethren in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo when they needed us the most and will continue to do so. You need to meditate on the meaning of CCCC.
Jovan,
I know of the case and I condmned it.
I actually said, that teenager is not of my heritage.
I think the burning and destroying of churches and Monasteries, has stopped a long time ago.
I think that the Religious shrines of the orthodoxy have to be perserved.
I also think that Serbian Orthodox church has to stop helping hike up tensions as they did in late 80's and 90's and to this day.
I think that even when Kosovo is INDEPENDENT, Kosovo should be proud of perserving those shrines of a different historical times.
All in all, mu hunch is that Serbia and Kosovo will have a special relationship and understanding for one another.
I wish those Serbian refugees returned to where they lived all their lifes.
Really, unless they committed crimes against locals and will be recognised by someone witnessing it.
The Kosovar Serbs get along with Albanians better then Serbia's Serbs.
You can take this to the bank.
I just want to say something about few churches they build in 1990's like the church in Gjakova/Djakovica.
In the Center of town?
They destroyed a beautiful park and build a church.
Serb population in that town was 1% and they already had 2 churches. Another one in the frontyard of University of Prishtina?
C'mon guys, common sence.
The Monastery in Dechane, Patriarshiaj, Grachanica, Prizren etc. they should be intact for generations to come.
But Serbs should also respect all other shrines like Catholic Cathedrals and churches and Islamic Mosques.
I dont understand why the albanians are so frustrated and irritated at Russia and their policies. The law is the law and must apply to all including albanians. Burning churches, killing minorities in the province wont give you any independence, especially as the murderers still are free and not brought to justice.
"On the other hand, there was a Serb family in Peja/Pec that saved my uncle and his family from the murder of Serb Paramilitaries helping them leave the town to Montenegro"
Lazer, there are reasonable and brave poeple everywhere, I do not doubt that.
but where were those reasonable Albanians when a 74-year old serbian woman was beaten up by "brave" albanian teenagers? or when serbian cultural heritage, proof of the serbian identity of Kosovo was burnt down by the albanian mob?
I asked the Albanians here to condemn that cowardish behaviour towards that old woman - Albanians ( here ) stayed quiet!
why did you not condemn it?
Albanians, unfortunately, have proven that they do not deserve what they are demanding, not to speak about the lack of justification, be it historically, legally or whatever.
you can start condemning those hate crimes against the serbian population NOW! are you gonna condemn it?
Kate=Princip, Jovan et al.
I have to assure you that starting with myself, and most of the Albanian posters here, as far as I can see do not have any hatred against the Serbian people, but the policies of the Serbian Government in the past and now the DSS part of Radical politicians that would like the policy of ethnic cleansing and prosecution of Albanians to continue.
This is not what ordinary Serbian people want, and most of them were NOT involved in the actions mentioned above.
If you take a look of some other posters, you will see how biased and not so nice their statements are.
They basically fall in line with all DSS politicians statements that fly around every day in Belgrade Media.
This is and must be unacceptable to every Albanian, since we have all been a subject of those acrions mentioned above.
As far as B92, is NOT just a Serbian site.
The people running B92 are smart and classy enough not to engage in politics other then reporting as fair as possible, and for that they are much appriciated in not only Serebian and Albanian Internet Communities, but for every person that has any interest on the issue of resolving the problem Serbia and Kosovo have.
For youe information I had sponsored a Serbian family coming to US as refugees, since I knew the family prior to the wars Miloshevich created.
On the other hand, there was a Serb family in Peja/Pec that saved my uncle and his family from the murder of Serb Paramilitaries helping them leave the town to Montenegro. MY uncle was a neighbour and a doctor who was looking after the Serbian man's father for many years.
There are so many stories I can tell you that ordinary Serba and Albanians do not hate each other. They do hate those who did the killings and operated the policies of Serbian politicians, who really are the most responsible people to prosecute.
You have few of these guys still in Serbian Government to this day.
I have said before that Kosovo is the RED LINE for Serbia and now it is for Russia as well! Every country that supports independence also supports the non-existence of Serbia as a sovereign, territorially intact nation state. In other words these countries (lead by the German dominated EU & US) support the demise of Serbia and the Serbian people. The Russians know that if the imperialistic West succeeds in creating a colony out of Serbia then they are next on the hit list, thus the RED LINE. There are many Serbs who are willing to give up Kosovo not realizing the long term consequences, they look at the rich West and believe that if they comply that they will share in the economic gold mine (lands of milk and honey) of Western Capitalism (colonialism). The truth however is very sobering, and we in the Diaspora know all to well that Serbia will be despoiled and exploited. If the EU won’t recognize Serbia’s sovereignty now what makes anyone think that it will when Serbia becomes a EU/NATO colony? Serbia can and will raise it’s standard of living to a comfortable level, and it can/will do this AS A FREE, SOVERIEGN, INDEPENDENDT NATION!
May God bless all Serbs, Russians and PUTIN THE GREAT!
If only the Serbs had a leader like him!
ahmet isufi says..."If all serbia has "smart people" as some of them on this site god help serbia."
This coming from a person who is not embarrassed to misspell words such as “rickets” when he means rockets and lacks basic knowledge of simple grammar. By the way, God and Serbia is capitalized.
Wow so many angry and nervous albanian posters. I know your blood boils when you hear such clear statements from Russian officials.
For years albanians have been terrorizing the Serb population with a goal of ethnically clensing all Serbs from their land. albanians just don't understand this will never happen!
Lazer - I'm totally in favour of the open manner of discussion too, but there is a difference between taking advantage of and overstepping the mark.
BTW Nikshala - I am glad to hear that you are fighting for a similar forum for Albanians. I wasn't actually referring to you when I spoke about the bigoted rantings against Serbians and others against independence. You know the sort of thing I'm speaking of, and it does happen both ways but mostly from the Albanian side.
I do wish that you would stop writing me off as a nationalist! Maybe I have some valid points, even though we don't agree.
Ahmet Isufi - If someone else is using your name, or hijacking someone elses name, it is time B92 started a log-in / personal profile policy.
Although I don't agree with all your postings, I don't think it's fair that people on any side should be using someone's name/ID other than their own to smear or flame.
I saw the article of a well known albanian writer something I found interesting. He said, Kosovo is a matter of time and space. A matter of time for albanians. A matter of space for serbs. Albanians are afraid to loose some more time on Kosovo. Serbs are afraid to loose some more territory. At the end of the day it is just a comedy. Albanians have the time of God to wait given they have been waiting since 1913. And serbs with that story of 15% of territory meanwhile have the best fields and the larges vital space of the Balkans - come on don't make us laugh, who cares about the mountains of Kosovo.
All these countries support independence
USA
austria
Germany
Italy
France
UK
Slovenia
Croatia
Macedonia
Albania
Montenegro
Turki
and many more
guys all this vs Serbia and Russia who do you think is going to win
If all serbia has "smart people" as some of them on this site god help serbia.
One person says that russia will occupy entire Georgia and another one(Jonas) says russia is the only country in world that upholds International LAW. Try to figure this out. Are serbs in serbia and abroad are talking to each other or not, just like their polticians they come up with different statemants and they are all running the country of proper serbia.
FYI, Yes Beta has a transalted version of serbian propaganda in to Albanian and this does not make it Albanian news in serbia proper. We allow other minorties to have also TV shows and news and they report without any censorship.Do you have that in belgrade, answers is a big NO.
My post goes to B92 primarily and then to the rest of the participants on the forum.
I feel discussed to read most of the comment in the forms of B92 news, given that most of the participants live in the west and enjoy being treated equal and their HR being promoted at all times. Yet, you access the forums and all you can read personalized, racist and derogatory comments with intent and without regards to anything whatsoever.
I am afraid this leads me to belief that 90% of the participants here (you know who you are) have no intellectual argument or are inept to articulate their points in respectful manner without insulting themselves first and the rest of the readers.
Instead of having a debate about how to hold accountable rouge governments in both Serbia and Kosovo/a and getting them to work for the people and improve the lives of ordinary Serbian and Kosovan citizen, you argue about myths, propaganda and personal prejudices with no or very little regard to the way of life in the ground. I recently visited Kosovo/a recently and I was in contact with both communities, Serbian and Albanian and guess what they want!? BETTER LIFE CHANCES. All of you, grow up please and stop preaching hatred towards each other, your views will change nothing with regards to the final status.
Kate,
B92 is a site operating since 1990, or before, and the person started it, Mr. Matic was totally against the policies of Miloshevich. This site actualy started outside of Serbia, at first.
The reason I like B92 is that they are Independent Media and dont take sides.
Regardless of your comment:"Serbian Site".
It is not just a Serbian site. It started when Yugoslavia was one country, and Kosovo was a part of it.
So it is a site run by Mr. Veran Matic, who some of us have met in the past, in US, and we all have a right to post since it is an open forum, even though moderated.
I would be surprised if the Russians drew a blue line.
Russian is stuck to Kosovo like a DRUNK around the POLE.
They are objecting to Missile shield deployed in the Czeck Republic, Kosovo etc.
At the same time selling Uranium to Iran, Weapon Systems to China and what not.
All these actions will turn a bite 'em in a back.
They think that since they made some money in the oil market they can revive the former Soviet. They are so wrong. America is out of reach for Russians, and it is not materialistic things, its the attitude, inovation and much more.
That is why Albanians love America, and plus the freedom they never had, from Slavic Invasion, to Turks then Communists.
Those are HISTORY.
There is only one small problem. Rusia doesn,t have the muscules to support its hard line retoric.So it's just talk.That's why Americans allways ignore this kind of retoric.
This article caused quite a reaction from the albanian side, as it should. Without Russian consent, there is no greater albania, perhaps you will finally start to realize that your dreams of expansionism and an ethnically pure albanian state are over.
I would also like to correct the lies that are repeated on here by the albanian side daily. These statements that Kosovo was somehow 'occupied' by Serbs and never belonged to them are a complete joke. Serbs are the indigenous people of Kosovo, history proves it, archeology proves it. Kosovo was never, ever, albanian, and that is a fact. Serbs resisted the turks for 500 years and eventually won back control of their ancestral homelands, maintained their Christianity, and refused to be islamicized like the albanians. Albanians are the ones who have 'occupied' the Serbian ancestral homeland which is Kosovo. http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/091.shtml
I once read and article years ago in which an albanian leader claimed 'if we can not defeat the Serbs with bombs, we will defeat them with babies'. This tells you the albanians' true intentions from the beginning, and this is not their strategy in only Kosovo, but in Montenegro, Macedonia and in Greece also. To give Kosovo to the albanians is not only highly illegal, but unbelievably immoral. Just look at what kind of apartheid place it is right now, with no rights or freedoms for minorities, no freedom of movement, military escorts required for Serbs to go buy food, Serb grandmothers getting assaulted by albanian teens for speaking Serbian, hundreds of year old churches destroyed...the list is too long to mention here. It's a good thing that Russia is strong again, and now perhaps we will finally have some truth and justice in the balkans.
It is good that at least one "super power" on this earth defend international law. Russia is right on this one and the US and UK are wrong because there can never be peace in the long run if you by force take anything that belongs to someone else and Kosovo belongs to Serbia how much you like it or not. It is not Serbias fault that UNMIK and KFOR didn't implement UN resolution 1244.
Jovan, serbia had its day man, remember yugoslavia. persia greece macedonia italy, ottomans, and guess what even russia, dont let it foul you they are just the soudis of the west. anyway man. Lost battle. if you think you will take back Kosovo as the french say
Du sublime au ridicule il n y a qu un pas. you are on the edge
Jovan
the US will leave sooner or later...Serbia will be there, and as the Irish say "Tiocfaidh ár lá( (pronounce:chuck-heeawrlaw)=Our daywill come. it´s only a question of time...
Jovan I doubt that your time will come , a small demographic fact to back my statement is that Serbia is becoming OLD. Today Sept 3 2007 in Kosovo 38,000 pupils are registered in the first class., In Serbia 76,000 Pupil are registered in the first class. 60 % of Kosovo population is below 30 while 50% of Serbian population is above 50.
I agree to what Kate has written, ....the Albanians are openly presenting their hatred against Serbs and other non-albanians but are very eagerly using a serbian news-forum to spread their accusations and threats.
they lost the only viable and legally possible way of getting "independence " when the USA and few others pulled back that stupid idea from the UNSC...
as Princip has put it right: the US will leave sooner or later...Serbia will be there, and as the Irish say "Tiocfaidh ár lá( (pronounce:chuck-hee awr law) = Our day will come.
Hej Cvele I want to thank you for the information and your honesty. So, that means russia is looking to occupy entire Georgia. HM, so much for upholding International LAW. I though all alone that serbia and russia are the only ones that are firm on upholding International laws.
You just shot yourself on the foot, and you tell me; "Wrong again".
FYI - our main news agency RTK website offers news/version in albanian and serbian language (english adn turkish as well).
Name a serbian website that provides news in albanian languange?
and as far as commenting or disucssions go, currently there is no good site to do that even in albanian. So it has nothing to do with discrimination towards serbs or the fact that they are not allowed to comment.
I have personaly sent an email to RTK asking them to create a version of their site to enable comment postings which would result in these kind of discussions, citing B92 as a very good example.
I think B92 provides a great services.
And while its true that B92 is sebian news website - many times it has been accused by serbs of being pro-albanian-western - just because they publish accurate and neutral news, instead of biased.
And I doubt that many of the serbs that comment on the english version - like yourself, Cvele, Ratko, Jovan ..... really represent the views of B92 - is anything they are probably quite different.
Another interesing point is the fact that there is quite a big difference between the comments on serbian posters on the english version and serbian posters on the serbian version of B92. The english commenting seems to be much more nationalistic and radical that the serbian comments.
Maybe its to do with the fact that most posters in serbian language live in Serbia and are tired of nationalistic tirade and consequences (that could just be the B92 news readers). Whereas, the serbian posters in english language probably live abroad, and whatever happens in Serbia and Kosovo doesn't directly affect them, and at the same time having more radical nationalistic views make them feel more 'serbian' and more connected to Serbia.
Mr. Lavrov you are completely wrong, go and draw red lines in your home land Russia, work to solve the problems that you are facing in your soil, let Kosovars to decide for the fate of Kosova, It is not the USA and EU that wants to create a a new state, the truth is that it’s the will of Kosovo people to create a NATO state, since they feel safer and protected form foreign threats. Self-determination for Kosova is not against Russia or Serbia it is about improving the social welfare of Kosova citizens, after eight years we need clear future perspective. Kosova is home of all people that perceive as its own homeland ,People of good will are welcomed to assist in building a new state that will provide warm shelter for all its citizens. Long live USA, UK, Germany, France, Italy, EU officials & UN Chief
Respect for all
Ahmet
russia would like to see KosovA become independent so that they can use that as an excuse and snatch the Abkazi from Georgia. Population wise Abkazi has only 50000 residents with russian heritage, but they want that piece of land. In the end I and all Albanians don't care what goes on in ex-USSR.
Wrong again.
Russia does not want to give independence to those small provinces in Georgia. They want to occupy Georgia the way US occupied IRAQ. I hate having to explain things like these to you. They want to do this b4 NATO offers Georgia a way into the alliance. With Kosovo issue coming to yet another climax on Dec 10th we shall possibly see. However, I wouldn't hold out hope if I were you.
To Klaudian: read Lavrov's remarks many, many times. You will see what you see. Russia has always been against partition of Kosovo, because it would entail a lot of "partitions" all over the world (see as well article against Kosovo partition and with critical remarks on Mr. Ishinger's statement in "Nezavisimaya Gazeta", Moscow, 27 August 2007) before spreading distorted info.
Mr isufi, if you work for a living then i guess you employer is not getting what what he is paying your salary for. YOu will see sir what happens in the Future and please don't come back to the forums crying that Kosova was given a raw deal you sleep with the Devil and reap the benefits. Ham OUT
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed...
Cvele
Well I still don't understand some people when they say that Americans are living, even if they leave Albanians will still be there but I am pretty sure that Americans won’t leave and on the other hand in 1999 Americans weren't in Kosova but they bombed Serbia so what difference it will make if Americans are in Kosova or not. In the other hand when it comes to the question of defending Kosova why some Serbs and a lot of them think that only Americans can do that if they leave then we can take over, well I tell you this once again Serbia will take Kosova only when they walk through 2.5milion of dad Albanians because otherwise never ever. So put it in mind that Kosova doesn't depend only in American protection, we Albanians we are still in Kosova and we will never leave and we will never give up our country. Russians red lines are ridiculous by the way if they don't have anymore red ink left I can give them some to draw more and more red lines, the only think that Russia can do right now is to draw red lines nothing else. So Cvele with four CCCC we are still here in Kosova and we are not planning to leave for another billion + years so don't get to comfortable.
Guys you seem worried about my spelling, but I work for a living and I don't have the time and don't care to do a spell check.But I am suprised that Gavrilo Princip is back and again using my name. I have no interest of mentioning his name whatsoever. This shows me how professional and educated he is as he claims to be.
By the way Cvele, you need more education on world politics. You mention Georgia and comparing it with KosovA.
russia would like to see KosovA become independent so that they can use that as an excuse and snatch the Abkazi from Georgia. Population wise Abkazi has only 50000 residents with russian heritage, but they want that piece of land. In the end I and all Albanians don't care what goes on in ex-USSR.
russian military can not contain a small place called Chechenia , which is located in middle of russia, let alone to come and fight for serbia. Was unable to feed handful of soldiers in KosovA. Enjoy you beloved russia Cvele.
Princip
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed - go have a look at what is going on in bondsteel and realise that they will be out very shortly - they need the troops urgently in Iraq to make up for the UK draw down and also in Afghanistan. Polt was not joking the other month when he said "what if..."
No bargain? Hahahaha. Look, the same Lavrov said one or two days ago that his country wouldnt oppose the partition of Kosovo, which means Mitrovica to Serbia, the rest to Albania. Now he is playing the "hard to get girl" just to pick this small slice of land, called Mitrovica. And you dont call it a bargain?
The guy looks upset. First he says that Russia doesnt dismiss the partition idea, and now that Wisner said NO, he draws red lines. Is better Russia draws lines on its own territory. Kosova is ALBANIAN, belongs to someone else, and despite Lavrov wishes, Russia will never ever have the slightest influence or respect over albanian people. Bye.
Exuse me Ahmet and other chronically anti-Serbian posters.
Before slating the Serbs, Russians and anyone who disagrees that Kosovo should become independent, please could you tell me the URL for the equivalent news and information website in Kosovo? Where there are the same sort of discussions openly taking place.
Do you think that whoever was editing comments would allow posters to aggressively slate Albanians and their hopes for independence?
I just wonder because there are many very disrespectful comments appearing from various posters full of hate for anything Serbian, and yet taking advantage of the open forum offered to them by... Serbians!
Surely that at least counts for something, and deserves a bit of neighbourly respect.
"biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets"
rickets can easily be solved by ensuring a good level of vitamin D in the diet of Children.
Regarding Serbia's province the Russian's have made their stance very clear for the last year and a half but you clearly still think you'll be eating that independence cake.
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed - go have a look at what is going on in bondsteel and realise that they will be out very shortly - they need the troops urgently in Iraq to make up for the UK draw down and also in Afghanistan. Polt was not joking the other month when he said "what if..."
"There are so-called 'red line' issues for Russia. There we cannot fail to react and we must stick to our position to the end."
-Lavrov
Russia is now in no position to back down over any of those issues. Personally I believe all but Kosovo can be negotiated with the Russians. Because Russians have agreed that nothing but Serbian consent will satisfy them, it makes it impossible for albs to declare any form of legitimate independence.
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expantion of NATO, Kosova was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
(Ahmet Isufi, 3. September 2007 11:01)
Well i figured it would be more response concerning this issue. I don't think there will be war over Kosovo between US and Russia. They sweep into Afganistan killed a bunch of people and left you don't think they will deploy troops to Serbia? As Mr Isufi said time will tell. So for all who put there eggs in one basket it is not very smart. If there is a confrontation there will be alot of Aircraft Parts littering the Kosovo lands. If that is what people want then that is what they get. Mr isufi next time use spell check.
Finally Russia decided to open its cards. God bless them for their honesty.
Well, my fellow ex-countrymen it looks like you won...now you can be part of Russia, but as far as Kosovo is concerned this has nothing to do with us, since from the very begining we were counting on the western democracies and not Russia.
We will declare independence despite "red lines" from Russia. If they think that this is Georgia, it has been explained to them in '99 that it is not so. Unfortunately, b92 moderator decided against posting a post of mine yesterday (they probably have done so with good reason)concerning the importance of Russia and some other countries that are against Kosovo's independence so I will not elaborate on this issue any more.
To conclude my post if they decide to defy USA and EUROPE it will not be the Russians that will suffer the consequences, but it will be the Serbs. And then you can start blaming the West,again, about your misfortune and injustice done to the "heavenly" people.
Lavrov can show off as much as he wants to, but regarding the red lines for NATO expansion, Kosova independence and Antimissile shiled, NATO expansion has already gone into the backyard of Russia, it even took over Warsaw where once used to be the center of the eastern block so I do not know why Lavrov has to show off about these matters. As for Kosova's status, It is of course going to be independent and nothing less. The missile shield will go on as planned and Russia can only watch with its old military who does not even have enough food to eat. When Russian military was in Kosova, they used to sell oil of their trucks to people for some little money.
This is your Russian military you serb nationalists, selling gas for cheap money.
Ahmet
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expansion of NATO, Kosovo was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
Ahmet
I disagree. Both Russia and US admitted that the missile shield was unable of thwarting Russian ICBM's. However, the idea of false security is what Russia believes that those SAM sites will mean to the US and EU citizens.
However, Kosovo is directly related to Russian border security and their territorial integrity. As well as their ability to deal a blow back in Georgia. This would mean that the only real threat to Russian integrity is the issue of Kosovo.
NATO expansion is something that is not just against Russia but against the SCO. Which means that even that weighs less then the issue of Kosovo.
Once again, its all about precedent it will set and Russia will not stand for it.
Long time ago Serbs they occupied lands which does not belong to them with help of Russia. In my opinion time came. Serbia has to become much more smaller then it is now. This is the main reason why Russia give so much efforts to this issue. Serbs will think that if they start fightings they will be helped by russians. But the fact is that Russians can not help. In the moment they will start to anything in this direction they will have bigg problem with their country which will start break in small peaces.
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expantion of NATO, Kosova was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
"There are so-called 'red line' issues for Russia. There we cannot fail to react and we must stick to our position to the end."
-Lavrov
Russia is now in no position to back down over any of those issues. Personally I believe all but Kosovo can be negotiated with the Russians. Because Russians have agreed that nothing but Serbian consent will satisfy them, it makes it impossible for albs to declare any form of legitimate independence.
"biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets"
rickets can easily be solved by ensuring a good level of vitamin D in the diet of Children.
Regarding Serbia's province the Russian's have made their stance very clear for the last year and a half but you clearly still think you'll be eating that independence cake.
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed - go have a look at what is going on in bondsteel and realise that they will be out very shortly - they need the troops urgently in Iraq to make up for the UK draw down and also in Afghanistan. Polt was not joking the other month when he said "what if..."
Exuse me Ahmet and other chronically anti-Serbian posters.
Before slating the Serbs, Russians and anyone who disagrees that Kosovo should become independent, please could you tell me the URL for the equivalent news and information website in Kosovo? Where there are the same sort of discussions openly taking place.
Do you think that whoever was editing comments would allow posters to aggressively slate Albanians and their hopes for independence?
I just wonder because there are many very disrespectful comments appearing from various posters full of hate for anything Serbian, and yet taking advantage of the open forum offered to them by... Serbians!
Surely that at least counts for something, and deserves a bit of neighbourly respect.
This article caused quite a reaction from the albanian side, as it should. Without Russian consent, there is no greater albania, perhaps you will finally start to realize that your dreams of expansionism and an ethnically pure albanian state are over.
I would also like to correct the lies that are repeated on here by the albanian side daily. These statements that Kosovo was somehow 'occupied' by Serbs and never belonged to them are a complete joke. Serbs are the indigenous people of Kosovo, history proves it, archeology proves it. Kosovo was never, ever, albanian, and that is a fact. Serbs resisted the turks for 500 years and eventually won back control of their ancestral homelands, maintained their Christianity, and refused to be islamicized like the albanians. Albanians are the ones who have 'occupied' the Serbian ancestral homeland which is Kosovo. http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/091.shtml
I once read and article years ago in which an albanian leader claimed 'if we can not defeat the Serbs with bombs, we will defeat them with babies'. This tells you the albanians' true intentions from the beginning, and this is not their strategy in only Kosovo, but in Montenegro, Macedonia and in Greece also. To give Kosovo to the albanians is not only highly illegal, but unbelievably immoral. Just look at what kind of apartheid place it is right now, with no rights or freedoms for minorities, no freedom of movement, military escorts required for Serbs to go buy food, Serb grandmothers getting assaulted by albanian teens for speaking Serbian, hundreds of year old churches destroyed...the list is too long to mention here. It's a good thing that Russia is strong again, and now perhaps we will finally have some truth and justice in the balkans.
Ahmet
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expansion of NATO, Kosovo was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
Ahmet
I disagree. Both Russia and US admitted that the missile shield was unable of thwarting Russian ICBM's. However, the idea of false security is what Russia believes that those SAM sites will mean to the US and EU citizens.
However, Kosovo is directly related to Russian border security and their territorial integrity. As well as their ability to deal a blow back in Georgia. This would mean that the only real threat to Russian integrity is the issue of Kosovo.
NATO expansion is something that is not just against Russia but against the SCO. Which means that even that weighs less then the issue of Kosovo.
Once again, its all about precedent it will set and Russia will not stand for it.
I have said before that Kosovo is the RED LINE for Serbia and now it is for Russia as well! Every country that supports independence also supports the non-existence of Serbia as a sovereign, territorially intact nation state. In other words these countries (lead by the German dominated EU & US) support the demise of Serbia and the Serbian people. The Russians know that if the imperialistic West succeeds in creating a colony out of Serbia then they are next on the hit list, thus the RED LINE. There are many Serbs who are willing to give up Kosovo not realizing the long term consequences, they look at the rich West and believe that if they comply that they will share in the economic gold mine (lands of milk and honey) of Western Capitalism (colonialism). The truth however is very sobering, and we in the Diaspora know all to well that Serbia will be despoiled and exploited. If the EU won’t recognize Serbia’s sovereignty now what makes anyone think that it will when Serbia becomes a EU/NATO colony? Serbia can and will raise it’s standard of living to a comfortable level, and it can/will do this AS A FREE, SOVERIEGN, INDEPENDENDT NATION!
May God bless all Serbs, Russians and PUTIN THE GREAT!
If only the Serbs had a leader like him!
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expantion of NATO, Kosova was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
I agree to what Kate has written, ....the Albanians are openly presenting their hatred against Serbs and other non-albanians but are very eagerly using a serbian news-forum to spread their accusations and threats.
they lost the only viable and legally possible way of getting "independence " when the USA and few others pulled back that stupid idea from the UNSC...
as Princip has put it right: the US will leave sooner or later...Serbia will be there, and as the Irish say "Tiocfaidh ár lá( (pronounce:chuck-hee awr law) = Our day will come.
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expantion of NATO, Kosova was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
(Ahmet Isufi, 3. September 2007 11:01)
Well i figured it would be more response concerning this issue. I don't think there will be war over Kosovo between US and Russia. They sweep into Afganistan killed a bunch of people and left you don't think they will deploy troops to Serbia? As Mr Isufi said time will tell. So for all who put there eggs in one basket it is not very smart. If there is a confrontation there will be alot of Aircraft Parts littering the Kosovo lands. If that is what people want then that is what they get. Mr isufi next time use spell check.
It is good that at least one "super power" on this earth defend international law. Russia is right on this one and the US and UK are wrong because there can never be peace in the long run if you by force take anything that belongs to someone else and Kosovo belongs to Serbia how much you like it or not. It is not Serbias fault that UNMIK and KFOR didn't implement UN resolution 1244.
Princip
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed - go have a look at what is going on in bondsteel and realise that they will be out very shortly - they need the troops urgently in Iraq to make up for the UK draw down and also in Afghanistan. Polt was not joking the other month when he said "what if..."
Mr isufi, if you work for a living then i guess you employer is not getting what what he is paying your salary for. YOu will see sir what happens in the Future and please don't come back to the forums crying that Kosova was given a raw deal you sleep with the Devil and reap the benefits. Ham OUT
FYI - our main news agency RTK website offers news/version in albanian and serbian language (english adn turkish as well).
Name a serbian website that provides news in albanian languange?
and as far as commenting or disucssions go, currently there is no good site to do that even in albanian. So it has nothing to do with discrimination towards serbs or the fact that they are not allowed to comment.
I have personaly sent an email to RTK asking them to create a version of their site to enable comment postings which would result in these kind of discussions, citing B92 as a very good example.
I think B92 provides a great services.
And while its true that B92 is sebian news website - many times it has been accused by serbs of being pro-albanian-western - just because they publish accurate and neutral news, instead of biased.
And I doubt that many of the serbs that comment on the english version - like yourself, Cvele, Ratko, Jovan ..... really represent the views of B92 - is anything they are probably quite different.
Another interesing point is the fact that there is quite a big difference between the comments on serbian posters on the english version and serbian posters on the serbian version of B92. The english commenting seems to be much more nationalistic and radical that the serbian comments.
Maybe its to do with the fact that most posters in serbian language live in Serbia and are tired of nationalistic tirade and consequences (that could just be the B92 news readers). Whereas, the serbian posters in english language probably live abroad, and whatever happens in Serbia and Kosovo doesn't directly affect them, and at the same time having more radical nationalistic views make them feel more 'serbian' and more connected to Serbia.
To Klaudian: read Lavrov's remarks many, many times. You will see what you see. Russia has always been against partition of Kosovo, because it would entail a lot of "partitions" all over the world (see as well article against Kosovo partition and with critical remarks on Mr. Ishinger's statement in "Nezavisimaya Gazeta", Moscow, 27 August 2007) before spreading distorted info.
Ahmet
russia would like to see KosovA become independent so that they can use that as an excuse and snatch the Abkazi from Georgia. Population wise Abkazi has only 50000 residents with russian heritage, but they want that piece of land. In the end I and all Albanians don't care what goes on in ex-USSR.
Wrong again.
Russia does not want to give independence to those small provinces in Georgia. They want to occupy Georgia the way US occupied IRAQ. I hate having to explain things like these to you. They want to do this b4 NATO offers Georgia a way into the alliance. With Kosovo issue coming to yet another climax on Dec 10th we shall possibly see. However, I wouldn't hold out hope if I were you.
Wow so many angry and nervous albanian posters. I know your blood boils when you hear such clear statements from Russian officials.
For years albanians have been terrorizing the Serb population with a goal of ethnically clensing all Serbs from their land. albanians just don't understand this will never happen!
I dont understand why the albanians are so frustrated and irritated at Russia and their policies. The law is the law and must apply to all including albanians. Burning churches, killing minorities in the province wont give you any independence, especially as the murderers still are free and not brought to justice.
Lavrov can show off as much as he wants to, but regarding the red lines for NATO expansion, Kosova independence and Antimissile shiled, NATO expansion has already gone into the backyard of Russia, it even took over Warsaw where once used to be the center of the eastern block so I do not know why Lavrov has to show off about these matters. As for Kosova's status, It is of course going to be independent and nothing less. The missile shield will go on as planned and Russia can only watch with its old military who does not even have enough food to eat. When Russian military was in Kosova, they used to sell oil of their trucks to people for some little money.
This is your Russian military you serb nationalists, selling gas for cheap money.
Finally Russia decided to open its cards. God bless them for their honesty.
Well, my fellow ex-countrymen it looks like you won...now you can be part of Russia, but as far as Kosovo is concerned this has nothing to do with us, since from the very begining we were counting on the western democracies and not Russia.
We will declare independence despite "red lines" from Russia. If they think that this is Georgia, it has been explained to them in '99 that it is not so. Unfortunately, b92 moderator decided against posting a post of mine yesterday (they probably have done so with good reason)concerning the importance of Russia and some other countries that are against Kosovo's independence so I will not elaborate on this issue any more.
To conclude my post if they decide to defy USA and EUROPE it will not be the Russians that will suffer the consequences, but it will be the Serbs. And then you can start blaming the West,again, about your misfortune and injustice done to the "heavenly" people.
My post goes to B92 primarily and then to the rest of the participants on the forum.
I feel discussed to read most of the comment in the forms of B92 news, given that most of the participants live in the west and enjoy being treated equal and their HR being promoted at all times. Yet, you access the forums and all you can read personalized, racist and derogatory comments with intent and without regards to anything whatsoever.
I am afraid this leads me to belief that 90% of the participants here (you know who you are) have no intellectual argument or are inept to articulate their points in respectful manner without insulting themselves first and the rest of the readers.
Instead of having a debate about how to hold accountable rouge governments in both Serbia and Kosovo/a and getting them to work for the people and improve the lives of ordinary Serbian and Kosovan citizen, you argue about myths, propaganda and personal prejudices with no or very little regard to the way of life in the ground. I recently visited Kosovo/a recently and I was in contact with both communities, Serbian and Albanian and guess what they want!? BETTER LIFE CHANCES. All of you, grow up please and stop preaching hatred towards each other, your views will change nothing with regards to the final status.
Long time ago Serbs they occupied lands which does not belong to them with help of Russia. In my opinion time came. Serbia has to become much more smaller then it is now. This is the main reason why Russia give so much efforts to this issue. Serbs will think that if they start fightings they will be helped by russians. But the fact is that Russians can not help. In the moment they will start to anything in this direction they will have bigg problem with their country which will start break in small peaces.
The guy looks upset. First he says that Russia doesnt dismiss the partition idea, and now that Wisner said NO, he draws red lines. Is better Russia draws lines on its own territory. Kosova is ALBANIAN, belongs to someone else, and despite Lavrov wishes, Russia will never ever have the slightest influence or respect over albanian people. Bye.
Jovan
the US will leave sooner or later...Serbia will be there, and as the Irish say "Tiocfaidh ár lá( (pronounce:chuck-heeawrlaw)=Our daywill come. it´s only a question of time...
Jovan I doubt that your time will come , a small demographic fact to back my statement is that Serbia is becoming OLD. Today Sept 3 2007 in Kosovo 38,000 pupils are registered in the first class., In Serbia 76,000 Pupil are registered in the first class. 60 % of Kosovo population is below 30 while 50% of Serbian population is above 50.
ahmet isufi says..."If all serbia has "smart people" as some of them on this site god help serbia."
This coming from a person who is not embarrassed to misspell words such as “rickets” when he means rockets and lacks basic knowledge of simple grammar. By the way, God and Serbia is capitalized.
Guys you seem worried about my spelling, but I work for a living and I don't have the time and don't care to do a spell check.But I am suprised that Gavrilo Princip is back and again using my name. I have no interest of mentioning his name whatsoever. This shows me how professional and educated he is as he claims to be.
By the way Cvele, you need more education on world politics. You mention Georgia and comparing it with KosovA.
russia would like to see KosovA become independent so that they can use that as an excuse and snatch the Abkazi from Georgia. Population wise Abkazi has only 50000 residents with russian heritage, but they want that piece of land. In the end I and all Albanians don't care what goes on in ex-USSR.
russian military can not contain a small place called Chechenia , which is located in middle of russia, let alone to come and fight for serbia. Was unable to feed handful of soldiers in KosovA. Enjoy you beloved russia Cvele.
No bargain? Hahahaha. Look, the same Lavrov said one or two days ago that his country wouldnt oppose the partition of Kosovo, which means Mitrovica to Serbia, the rest to Albania. Now he is playing the "hard to get girl" just to pick this small slice of land, called Mitrovica. And you dont call it a bargain?
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed...
Cvele
Well I still don't understand some people when they say that Americans are living, even if they leave Albanians will still be there but I am pretty sure that Americans won’t leave and on the other hand in 1999 Americans weren't in Kosova but they bombed Serbia so what difference it will make if Americans are in Kosova or not. In the other hand when it comes to the question of defending Kosova why some Serbs and a lot of them think that only Americans can do that if they leave then we can take over, well I tell you this once again Serbia will take Kosova only when they walk through 2.5milion of dad Albanians because otherwise never ever. So put it in mind that Kosova doesn't depend only in American protection, we Albanians we are still in Kosova and we will never leave and we will never give up our country. Russians red lines are ridiculous by the way if they don't have anymore red ink left I can give them some to draw more and more red lines, the only think that Russia can do right now is to draw red lines nothing else. So Cvele with four CCCC we are still here in Kosova and we are not planning to leave for another billion + years so don't get to comfortable.
Hej Cvele I want to thank you for the information and your honesty. So, that means russia is looking to occupy entire Georgia. HM, so much for upholding International LAW. I though all alone that serbia and russia are the only ones that are firm on upholding International laws.
You just shot yourself on the foot, and you tell me; "Wrong again".
Kate,
B92 is a site operating since 1990, or before, and the person started it, Mr. Matic was totally against the policies of Miloshevich. This site actualy started outside of Serbia, at first.
The reason I like B92 is that they are Independent Media and dont take sides.
Regardless of your comment:"Serbian Site".
It is not just a Serbian site. It started when Yugoslavia was one country, and Kosovo was a part of it.
So it is a site run by Mr. Veran Matic, who some of us have met in the past, in US, and we all have a right to post since it is an open forum, even though moderated.
All these countries support independence
USA
austria
Germany
Italy
France
UK
Slovenia
Croatia
Macedonia
Albania
Montenegro
Turki
and many more
guys all this vs Serbia and Russia who do you think is going to win
Lazer - I'm totally in favour of the open manner of discussion too, but there is a difference between taking advantage of and overstepping the mark.
BTW Nikshala - I am glad to hear that you are fighting for a similar forum for Albanians. I wasn't actually referring to you when I spoke about the bigoted rantings against Serbians and others against independence. You know the sort of thing I'm speaking of, and it does happen both ways but mostly from the Albanian side.
I do wish that you would stop writing me off as a nationalist! Maybe I have some valid points, even though we don't agree.
"On the other hand, there was a Serb family in Peja/Pec that saved my uncle and his family from the murder of Serb Paramilitaries helping them leave the town to Montenegro"
Lazer, there are reasonable and brave poeple everywhere, I do not doubt that.
but where were those reasonable Albanians when a 74-year old serbian woman was beaten up by "brave" albanian teenagers? or when serbian cultural heritage, proof of the serbian identity of Kosovo was burnt down by the albanian mob?
I asked the Albanians here to condemn that cowardish behaviour towards that old woman - Albanians ( here ) stayed quiet!
why did you not condemn it?
Albanians, unfortunately, have proven that they do not deserve what they are demanding, not to speak about the lack of justification, be it historically, legally or whatever.
you can start condemning those hate crimes against the serbian population NOW! are you gonna condemn it?
"The Kosovar Serbs get along with Albanians better then Serbia's Serbs."
All Serbs defend their own. We Serbs in Serbia proper responded to the calls of our brethren in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo when they needed us the most and will continue to do so. You need to meditate on the meaning of CCCC.
Mr. Lavrov you are completely wrong, go and draw red lines in your home land Russia, work to solve the problems that you are facing in your soil, let Kosovars to decide for the fate of Kosova, It is not the USA and EU that wants to create a a new state, the truth is that it’s the will of Kosovo people to create a NATO state, since they feel safer and protected form foreign threats. Self-determination for Kosova is not against Russia or Serbia it is about improving the social welfare of Kosova citizens, after eight years we need clear future perspective. Kosova is home of all people that perceive as its own homeland ,People of good will are welcomed to assist in building a new state that will provide warm shelter for all its citizens. Long live USA, UK, Germany, France, Italy, EU officials & UN Chief
Respect for all
There is only one small problem. Rusia doesn,t have the muscules to support its hard line retoric.So it's just talk.That's why Americans allways ignore this kind of retoric.
Kate=Princip, Jovan et al.
I have to assure you that starting with myself, and most of the Albanian posters here, as far as I can see do not have any hatred against the Serbian people, but the policies of the Serbian Government in the past and now the DSS part of Radical politicians that would like the policy of ethnic cleansing and prosecution of Albanians to continue.
This is not what ordinary Serbian people want, and most of them were NOT involved in the actions mentioned above.
If you take a look of some other posters, you will see how biased and not so nice their statements are.
They basically fall in line with all DSS politicians statements that fly around every day in Belgrade Media.
This is and must be unacceptable to every Albanian, since we have all been a subject of those acrions mentioned above.
As far as B92, is NOT just a Serbian site.
The people running B92 are smart and classy enough not to engage in politics other then reporting as fair as possible, and for that they are much appriciated in not only Serebian and Albanian Internet Communities, but for every person that has any interest on the issue of resolving the problem Serbia and Kosovo have.
For youe information I had sponsored a Serbian family coming to US as refugees, since I knew the family prior to the wars Miloshevich created.
On the other hand, there was a Serb family in Peja/Pec that saved my uncle and his family from the murder of Serb Paramilitaries helping them leave the town to Montenegro. MY uncle was a neighbour and a doctor who was looking after the Serbian man's father for many years.
There are so many stories I can tell you that ordinary Serba and Albanians do not hate each other. They do hate those who did the killings and operated the policies of Serbian politicians, who really are the most responsible people to prosecute.
You have few of these guys still in Serbian Government to this day.
Jovan,
I know of the case and I condmned it.
I actually said, that teenager is not of my heritage.
I think the burning and destroying of churches and Monasteries, has stopped a long time ago.
I think that the Religious shrines of the orthodoxy have to be perserved.
I also think that Serbian Orthodox church has to stop helping hike up tensions as they did in late 80's and 90's and to this day.
I think that even when Kosovo is INDEPENDENT, Kosovo should be proud of perserving those shrines of a different historical times.
All in all, mu hunch is that Serbia and Kosovo will have a special relationship and understanding for one another.
I wish those Serbian refugees returned to where they lived all their lifes.
Really, unless they committed crimes against locals and will be recognised by someone witnessing it.
The Kosovar Serbs get along with Albanians better then Serbia's Serbs.
You can take this to the bank.
I just want to say something about few churches they build in 1990's like the church in Gjakova/Djakovica.
In the Center of town?
They destroyed a beautiful park and build a church.
Serb population in that town was 1% and they already had 2 churches. Another one in the frontyard of University of Prishtina?
C'mon guys, common sence.
The Monastery in Dechane, Patriarshiaj, Grachanica, Prizren etc. they should be intact for generations to come.
But Serbs should also respect all other shrines like Catholic Cathedrals and churches and Islamic Mosques.
I would be surprised if the Russians drew a blue line.
Russian is stuck to Kosovo like a DRUNK around the POLE.
They are objecting to Missile shield deployed in the Czeck Republic, Kosovo etc.
At the same time selling Uranium to Iran, Weapon Systems to China and what not.
All these actions will turn a bite 'em in a back.
They think that since they made some money in the oil market they can revive the former Soviet. They are so wrong. America is out of reach for Russians, and it is not materialistic things, its the attitude, inovation and much more.
That is why Albanians love America, and plus the freedom they never had, from Slavic Invasion, to Turks then Communists.
Those are HISTORY.
If all serbia has "smart people" as some of them on this site god help serbia.
One person says that russia will occupy entire Georgia and another one(Jonas) says russia is the only country in world that upholds International LAW. Try to figure this out. Are serbs in serbia and abroad are talking to each other or not, just like their polticians they come up with different statemants and they are all running the country of proper serbia.
FYI, Yes Beta has a transalted version of serbian propaganda in to Albanian and this does not make it Albanian news in serbia proper. We allow other minorties to have also TV shows and news and they report without any censorship.Do you have that in belgrade, answers is a big NO.
Jovan, serbia had its day man, remember yugoslavia. persia greece macedonia italy, ottomans, and guess what even russia, dont let it foul you they are just the soudis of the west. anyway man. Lost battle. if you think you will take back Kosovo as the french say
Du sublime au ridicule il n y a qu un pas. you are on the edge
Ahmet Isufi - If someone else is using your name, or hijacking someone elses name, it is time B92 started a log-in / personal profile policy.
Although I don't agree with all your postings, I don't think it's fair that people on any side should be using someone's name/ID other than their own to smear or flame.
I saw the article of a well known albanian writer something I found interesting. He said, Kosovo is a matter of time and space. A matter of time for albanians. A matter of space for serbs. Albanians are afraid to loose some more time on Kosovo. Serbs are afraid to loose some more territory. At the end of the day it is just a comedy. Albanians have the time of God to wait given they have been waiting since 1913. And serbs with that story of 15% of territory meanwhile have the best fields and the larges vital space of the Balkans - come on don't make us laugh, who cares about the mountains of Kosovo.
to my fellow Serbian neighbors.
OK, we will see the final result for Kosovo Status. It is indepedence, nothing less.
U serbs need to wake up people, dont u see that even Vojvodina,bosnian region of Serbia, preshevo and bujanovc dont like to be a part of Serbia anymore. You people are destroying even your own country not to mention Kosova.
I promise you in 1 year Kosovo will be indepedent and Vojvodina issue will come to international attention.
Serbs, understand that you are not "special people" we all need to be equal and let go of nationalism.
well, Lazer, that´s the first time I read that an Albanian condemns that brutal beating.
I appreciate it, althoug it should go without a saying, in this case I say bravo for showing a first sign of bravery against violent cowards.
as to myself, I certainly cannot ask for respect of own cultural heritage if I do not respect others´heritage, monuments etc.
so, I think we shouldn´t be divided on this particular point.
poeple will come together again, I don´t doubt that, it takes a long time, I am sure, but it will happen.
and since it worked in other places, just remember France and Germany who fought for centuries up to WW II and now work together as friends, accept that it is not "kosova", it is Serbia, and you are just one citizen of it. and since it is all ending up within the EU... you should all come to reason and forget to think in 18th-century arguments, and start thinking of a better future for all poeple in that region.
Yeah, we know how you "HELP" your brethren.
Its people like you that make this very difficult.
You should be kicked out by Serbs not Albanians.
Is this kind of actions that brought up the break-up of Yugoslavia.
FYI, Kosovo/a is not going to be given, they will TAKE IT, the INDEPENDENCE.
Long time ago Serbs they occupied lands which does not belong to them with help of Russia. In my opinion time came. Serbia has to become much more smaller then it is now. This is the main reason why Russia give so much efforts to this issue. Serbs will think that if they start fightings they will be helped by russians. But the fact is that Russians can not help. In the moment they will start to anything in this direction they will have bigg problem with their country which will start break in small peaces.
Lavrov can show off as much as he wants to, but regarding the red lines for NATO expansion, Kosova independence and Antimissile shiled, NATO expansion has already gone into the backyard of Russia, it even took over Warsaw where once used to be the center of the eastern block so I do not know why Lavrov has to show off about these matters. As for Kosova's status, It is of course going to be independent and nothing less. The missile shield will go on as planned and Russia can only watch with its old military who does not even have enough food to eat. When Russian military was in Kosova, they used to sell oil of their trucks to people for some little money.
This is your Russian military you serb nationalists, selling gas for cheap money.
The guy looks upset. First he says that Russia doesnt dismiss the partition idea, and now that Wisner said NO, he draws red lines. Is better Russia draws lines on its own territory. Kosova is ALBANIAN, belongs to someone else, and despite Lavrov wishes, Russia will never ever have the slightest influence or respect over albanian people. Bye.
Mr. Lavrov you are completely wrong, go and draw red lines in your home land Russia, work to solve the problems that you are facing in your soil, let Kosovars to decide for the fate of Kosova, It is not the USA and EU that wants to create a a new state, the truth is that it’s the will of Kosovo people to create a NATO state, since they feel safer and protected form foreign threats. Self-determination for Kosova is not against Russia or Serbia it is about improving the social welfare of Kosova citizens, after eight years we need clear future perspective. Kosova is home of all people that perceive as its own homeland ,People of good will are welcomed to assist in building a new state that will provide warm shelter for all its citizens. Long live USA, UK, Germany, France, Italy, EU officials & UN Chief
Respect for all
No bargain? Hahahaha. Look, the same Lavrov said one or two days ago that his country wouldnt oppose the partition of Kosovo, which means Mitrovica to Serbia, the rest to Albania. Now he is playing the "hard to get girl" just to pick this small slice of land, called Mitrovica. And you dont call it a bargain?
Hej Cvele I want to thank you for the information and your honesty. So, that means russia is looking to occupy entire Georgia. HM, so much for upholding International LAW. I though all alone that serbia and russia are the only ones that are firm on upholding International laws.
You just shot yourself on the foot, and you tell me; "Wrong again".
Finally Russia decided to open its cards. God bless them for their honesty.
Well, my fellow ex-countrymen it looks like you won...now you can be part of Russia, but as far as Kosovo is concerned this has nothing to do with us, since from the very begining we were counting on the western democracies and not Russia.
We will declare independence despite "red lines" from Russia. If they think that this is Georgia, it has been explained to them in '99 that it is not so. Unfortunately, b92 moderator decided against posting a post of mine yesterday (they probably have done so with good reason)concerning the importance of Russia and some other countries that are against Kosovo's independence so I will not elaborate on this issue any more.
To conclude my post if they decide to defy USA and EUROPE it will not be the Russians that will suffer the consequences, but it will be the Serbs. And then you can start blaming the West,again, about your misfortune and injustice done to the "heavenly" people.
Guys you seem worried about my spelling, but I work for a living and I don't have the time and don't care to do a spell check.But I am suprised that Gavrilo Princip is back and again using my name. I have no interest of mentioning his name whatsoever. This shows me how professional and educated he is as he claims to be.
By the way Cvele, you need more education on world politics. You mention Georgia and comparing it with KosovA.
russia would like to see KosovA become independent so that they can use that as an excuse and snatch the Abkazi from Georgia. Population wise Abkazi has only 50000 residents with russian heritage, but they want that piece of land. In the end I and all Albanians don't care what goes on in ex-USSR.
russian military can not contain a small place called Chechenia , which is located in middle of russia, let alone to come and fight for serbia. Was unable to feed handful of soldiers in KosovA. Enjoy you beloved russia Cvele.
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expantion of NATO, Kosova was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
"There are so-called 'red line' issues for Russia. There we cannot fail to react and we must stick to our position to the end."
-Lavrov
Russia is now in no position to back down over any of those issues. Personally I believe all but Kosovo can be negotiated with the Russians. Because Russians have agreed that nothing but Serbian consent will satisfy them, it makes it impossible for albs to declare any form of legitimate independence.
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed...
Cvele
Well I still don't understand some people when they say that Americans are living, even if they leave Albanians will still be there but I am pretty sure that Americans won’t leave and on the other hand in 1999 Americans weren't in Kosova but they bombed Serbia so what difference it will make if Americans are in Kosova or not. In the other hand when it comes to the question of defending Kosova why some Serbs and a lot of them think that only Americans can do that if they leave then we can take over, well I tell you this once again Serbia will take Kosova only when they walk through 2.5milion of dad Albanians because otherwise never ever. So put it in mind that Kosova doesn't depend only in American protection, we Albanians we are still in Kosova and we will never leave and we will never give up our country. Russians red lines are ridiculous by the way if they don't have anymore red ink left I can give them some to draw more and more red lines, the only think that Russia can do right now is to draw red lines nothing else. So Cvele with four CCCC we are still here in Kosova and we are not planning to leave for another billion + years so don't get to comfortable.
Ahmet
russia would like to see KosovA become independent so that they can use that as an excuse and snatch the Abkazi from Georgia. Population wise Abkazi has only 50000 residents with russian heritage, but they want that piece of land. In the end I and all Albanians don't care what goes on in ex-USSR.
Wrong again.
Russia does not want to give independence to those small provinces in Georgia. They want to occupy Georgia the way US occupied IRAQ. I hate having to explain things like these to you. They want to do this b4 NATO offers Georgia a way into the alliance. With Kosovo issue coming to yet another climax on Dec 10th we shall possibly see. However, I wouldn't hold out hope if I were you.
FYI - our main news agency RTK website offers news/version in albanian and serbian language (english adn turkish as well).
Name a serbian website that provides news in albanian languange?
and as far as commenting or disucssions go, currently there is no good site to do that even in albanian. So it has nothing to do with discrimination towards serbs or the fact that they are not allowed to comment.
I have personaly sent an email to RTK asking them to create a version of their site to enable comment postings which would result in these kind of discussions, citing B92 as a very good example.
I think B92 provides a great services.
And while its true that B92 is sebian news website - many times it has been accused by serbs of being pro-albanian-western - just because they publish accurate and neutral news, instead of biased.
And I doubt that many of the serbs that comment on the english version - like yourself, Cvele, Ratko, Jovan ..... really represent the views of B92 - is anything they are probably quite different.
Another interesing point is the fact that there is quite a big difference between the comments on serbian posters on the english version and serbian posters on the serbian version of B92. The english commenting seems to be much more nationalistic and radical that the serbian comments.
Maybe its to do with the fact that most posters in serbian language live in Serbia and are tired of nationalistic tirade and consequences (that could just be the B92 news readers). Whereas, the serbian posters in english language probably live abroad, and whatever happens in Serbia and Kosovo doesn't directly affect them, and at the same time having more radical nationalistic views make them feel more 'serbian' and more connected to Serbia.
There is only one small problem. Rusia doesn,t have the muscules to support its hard line retoric.So it's just talk.That's why Americans allways ignore this kind of retoric.
I would be surprised if the Russians drew a blue line.
Russian is stuck to Kosovo like a DRUNK around the POLE.
They are objecting to Missile shield deployed in the Czeck Republic, Kosovo etc.
At the same time selling Uranium to Iran, Weapon Systems to China and what not.
All these actions will turn a bite 'em in a back.
They think that since they made some money in the oil market they can revive the former Soviet. They are so wrong. America is out of reach for Russians, and it is not materialistic things, its the attitude, inovation and much more.
That is why Albanians love America, and plus the freedom they never had, from Slavic Invasion, to Turks then Communists.
Those are HISTORY.
If all serbia has "smart people" as some of them on this site god help serbia.
One person says that russia will occupy entire Georgia and another one(Jonas) says russia is the only country in world that upholds International LAW. Try to figure this out. Are serbs in serbia and abroad are talking to each other or not, just like their polticians they come up with different statemants and they are all running the country of proper serbia.
FYI, Yes Beta has a transalted version of serbian propaganda in to Albanian and this does not make it Albanian news in serbia proper. We allow other minorties to have also TV shows and news and they report without any censorship.Do you have that in belgrade, answers is a big NO.
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expantion of NATO, Kosova was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
(Ahmet Isufi, 3. September 2007 11:01)
Well i figured it would be more response concerning this issue. I don't think there will be war over Kosovo between US and Russia. They sweep into Afganistan killed a bunch of people and left you don't think they will deploy troops to Serbia? As Mr Isufi said time will tell. So for all who put there eggs in one basket it is not very smart. If there is a confrontation there will be alot of Aircraft Parts littering the Kosovo lands. If that is what people want then that is what they get. Mr isufi next time use spell check.
Ahmet
Anybody with little comonsence can see that the biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets and expansion of NATO, Kosovo was just tossed in on the entire package.Anyway, time will tell.
Ahmet
I disagree. Both Russia and US admitted that the missile shield was unable of thwarting Russian ICBM's. However, the idea of false security is what Russia believes that those SAM sites will mean to the US and EU citizens.
However, Kosovo is directly related to Russian border security and their territorial integrity. As well as their ability to deal a blow back in Georgia. This would mean that the only real threat to Russian integrity is the issue of Kosovo.
NATO expansion is something that is not just against Russia but against the SCO. Which means that even that weighs less then the issue of Kosovo.
Once again, its all about precedent it will set and Russia will not stand for it.
Exuse me Ahmet and other chronically anti-Serbian posters.
Before slating the Serbs, Russians and anyone who disagrees that Kosovo should become independent, please could you tell me the URL for the equivalent news and information website in Kosovo? Where there are the same sort of discussions openly taking place.
Do you think that whoever was editing comments would allow posters to aggressively slate Albanians and their hopes for independence?
I just wonder because there are many very disrespectful comments appearing from various posters full of hate for anything Serbian, and yet taking advantage of the open forum offered to them by... Serbians!
Surely that at least counts for something, and deserves a bit of neighbourly respect.
Mr isufi, if you work for a living then i guess you employer is not getting what what he is paying your salary for. YOu will see sir what happens in the Future and please don't come back to the forums crying that Kosova was given a raw deal you sleep with the Devil and reap the benefits. Ham OUT
I agree to what Kate has written, ....the Albanians are openly presenting their hatred against Serbs and other non-albanians but are very eagerly using a serbian news-forum to spread their accusations and threats.
they lost the only viable and legally possible way of getting "independence " when the USA and few others pulled back that stupid idea from the UNSC...
as Princip has put it right: the US will leave sooner or later...Serbia will be there, and as the Irish say "Tiocfaidh ár lá( (pronounce:chuck-hee awr law) = Our day will come.
It is good that at least one "super power" on this earth defend international law. Russia is right on this one and the US and UK are wrong because there can never be peace in the long run if you by force take anything that belongs to someone else and Kosovo belongs to Serbia how much you like it or not. It is not Serbias fault that UNMIK and KFOR didn't implement UN resolution 1244.
This article caused quite a reaction from the albanian side, as it should. Without Russian consent, there is no greater albania, perhaps you will finally start to realize that your dreams of expansionism and an ethnically pure albanian state are over.
I would also like to correct the lies that are repeated on here by the albanian side daily. These statements that Kosovo was somehow 'occupied' by Serbs and never belonged to them are a complete joke. Serbs are the indigenous people of Kosovo, history proves it, archeology proves it. Kosovo was never, ever, albanian, and that is a fact. Serbs resisted the turks for 500 years and eventually won back control of their ancestral homelands, maintained their Christianity, and refused to be islamicized like the albanians. Albanians are the ones who have 'occupied' the Serbian ancestral homeland which is Kosovo. http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/091.shtml
I once read and article years ago in which an albanian leader claimed 'if we can not defeat the Serbs with bombs, we will defeat them with babies'. This tells you the albanians' true intentions from the beginning, and this is not their strategy in only Kosovo, but in Montenegro, Macedonia and in Greece also. To give Kosovo to the albanians is not only highly illegal, but unbelievably immoral. Just look at what kind of apartheid place it is right now, with no rights or freedoms for minorities, no freedom of movement, military escorts required for Serbs to go buy food, Serb grandmothers getting assaulted by albanian teens for speaking Serbian, hundreds of year old churches destroyed...the list is too long to mention here. It's a good thing that Russia is strong again, and now perhaps we will finally have some truth and justice in the balkans.
Jovan, serbia had its day man, remember yugoslavia. persia greece macedonia italy, ottomans, and guess what even russia, dont let it foul you they are just the soudis of the west. anyway man. Lost battle. if you think you will take back Kosovo as the french say
Du sublime au ridicule il n y a qu un pas. you are on the edge
Jovan
the US will leave sooner or later...Serbia will be there, and as the Irish say "Tiocfaidh ár lá( (pronounce:chuck-heeawrlaw)=Our daywill come. it´s only a question of time...
Jovan I doubt that your time will come , a small demographic fact to back my statement is that Serbia is becoming OLD. Today Sept 3 2007 in Kosovo 38,000 pupils are registered in the first class., In Serbia 76,000 Pupil are registered in the first class. 60 % of Kosovo population is below 30 while 50% of Serbian population is above 50.
All these countries support independence
USA
austria
Germany
Italy
France
UK
Slovenia
Croatia
Macedonia
Albania
Montenegro
Turki
and many more
guys all this vs Serbia and Russia who do you think is going to win
ahmet isufi says..."If all serbia has "smart people" as some of them on this site god help serbia."
This coming from a person who is not embarrassed to misspell words such as “rickets” when he means rockets and lacks basic knowledge of simple grammar. By the way, God and Serbia is capitalized.
Kate=Princip, Jovan et al.
I have to assure you that starting with myself, and most of the Albanian posters here, as far as I can see do not have any hatred against the Serbian people, but the policies of the Serbian Government in the past and now the DSS part of Radical politicians that would like the policy of ethnic cleansing and prosecution of Albanians to continue.
This is not what ordinary Serbian people want, and most of them were NOT involved in the actions mentioned above.
If you take a look of some other posters, you will see how biased and not so nice their statements are.
They basically fall in line with all DSS politicians statements that fly around every day in Belgrade Media.
This is and must be unacceptable to every Albanian, since we have all been a subject of those acrions mentioned above.
As far as B92, is NOT just a Serbian site.
The people running B92 are smart and classy enough not to engage in politics other then reporting as fair as possible, and for that they are much appriciated in not only Serebian and Albanian Internet Communities, but for every person that has any interest on the issue of resolving the problem Serbia and Kosovo have.
For youe information I had sponsored a Serbian family coming to US as refugees, since I knew the family prior to the wars Miloshevich created.
On the other hand, there was a Serb family in Peja/Pec that saved my uncle and his family from the murder of Serb Paramilitaries helping them leave the town to Montenegro. MY uncle was a neighbour and a doctor who was looking after the Serbian man's father for many years.
There are so many stories I can tell you that ordinary Serba and Albanians do not hate each other. They do hate those who did the killings and operated the policies of Serbian politicians, who really are the most responsible people to prosecute.
You have few of these guys still in Serbian Government to this day.
"biggest concern for russia is new deployment of shiled rickets"
rickets can easily be solved by ensuring a good level of vitamin D in the diet of Children.
Regarding Serbia's province the Russian's have made their stance very clear for the last year and a half but you clearly still think you'll be eating that independence cake.
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed - go have a look at what is going on in bondsteel and realise that they will be out very shortly - they need the troops urgently in Iraq to make up for the UK draw down and also in Afghanistan. Polt was not joking the other month when he said "what if..."
Princip
Tough luck but it is clear that the US are preparing to pull out their troops - opps have you not been informed - go have a look at what is going on in bondsteel and realise that they will be out very shortly - they need the troops urgently in Iraq to make up for the UK draw down and also in Afghanistan. Polt was not joking the other month when he said "what if..."
Kate,
B92 is a site operating since 1990, or before, and the person started it, Mr. Matic was totally against the policies of Miloshevich. This site actualy started outside of Serbia, at first.
The reason I like B92 is that they are Independent Media and dont take sides.
Regardless of your comment:"Serbian Site".
It is not just a Serbian site. It started when Yugoslavia was one country, and Kosovo was a part of it.
So it is a site run by Mr. Veran Matic, who some of us have met in the past, in US, and we all have a right to post since it is an open forum, even though moderated.
Wow so many angry and nervous albanian posters. I know your blood boils when you hear such clear statements from Russian officials.
For years albanians have been terrorizing the Serb population with a goal of ethnically clensing all Serbs from their land. albanians just don't understand this will never happen!
Lazer - I'm totally in favour of the open manner of discussion too, but there is a difference between taking advantage of and overstepping the mark.
BTW Nikshala - I am glad to hear that you are fighting for a similar forum for Albanians. I wasn't actually referring to you when I spoke about the bigoted rantings against Serbians and others against independence. You know the sort of thing I'm speaking of, and it does happen both ways but mostly from the Albanian side.
I do wish that you would stop writing me off as a nationalist! Maybe I have some valid points, even though we don't agree.
I saw the article of a well known albanian writer something I found interesting. He said, Kosovo is a matter of time and space. A matter of time for albanians. A matter of space for serbs. Albanians are afraid to loose some more time on Kosovo. Serbs are afraid to loose some more territory. At the end of the day it is just a comedy. Albanians have the time of God to wait given they have been waiting since 1913. And serbs with that story of 15% of territory meanwhile have the best fields and the larges vital space of the Balkans - come on don't make us laugh, who cares about the mountains of Kosovo.
I have said before that Kosovo is the RED LINE for Serbia and now it is for Russia as well! Every country that supports independence also supports the non-existence of Serbia as a sovereign, territorially intact nation state. In other words these countries (lead by the German dominated EU & US) support the demise of Serbia and the Serbian people. The Russians know that if the imperialistic West succeeds in creating a colony out of Serbia then they are next on the hit list, thus the RED LINE. There are many Serbs who are willing to give up Kosovo not realizing the long term consequences, they look at the rich West and believe that if they comply that they will share in the economic gold mine (lands of milk and honey) of Western Capitalism (colonialism). The truth however is very sobering, and we in the Diaspora know all to well that Serbia will be despoiled and exploited. If the EU won’t recognize Serbia’s sovereignty now what makes anyone think that it will when Serbia becomes a EU/NATO colony? Serbia can and will raise it’s standard of living to a comfortable level, and it can/will do this AS A FREE, SOVERIEGN, INDEPENDENDT NATION!
May God bless all Serbs, Russians and PUTIN THE GREAT!
If only the Serbs had a leader like him!
Jovan,
I know of the case and I condmned it.
I actually said, that teenager is not of my heritage.
I think the burning and destroying of churches and Monasteries, has stopped a long time ago.
I think that the Religious shrines of the orthodoxy have to be perserved.
I also think that Serbian Orthodox church has to stop helping hike up tensions as they did in late 80's and 90's and to this day.
I think that even when Kosovo is INDEPENDENT, Kosovo should be proud of perserving those shrines of a different historical times.
All in all, mu hunch is that Serbia and Kosovo will have a special relationship and understanding for one another.
I wish those Serbian refugees returned to where they lived all their lifes.
Really, unless they committed crimes against locals and will be recognised by someone witnessing it.
The Kosovar Serbs get along with Albanians better then Serbia's Serbs.
You can take this to the bank.
I just want to say something about few churches they build in 1990's like the church in Gjakova/Djakovica.
In the Center of town?
They destroyed a beautiful park and build a church.
Serb population in that town was 1% and they already had 2 churches. Another one in the frontyard of University of Prishtina?
C'mon guys, common sence.
The Monastery in Dechane, Patriarshiaj, Grachanica, Prizren etc. they should be intact for generations to come.
But Serbs should also respect all other shrines like Catholic Cathedrals and churches and Islamic Mosques.
Yeah, we know how you "HELP" your brethren.
Its people like you that make this very difficult.
You should be kicked out by Serbs not Albanians.
Is this kind of actions that brought up the break-up of Yugoslavia.
FYI, Kosovo/a is not going to be given, they will TAKE IT, the INDEPENDENCE.
to my fellow Serbian neighbors.
OK, we will see the final result for Kosovo Status. It is indepedence, nothing less.
U serbs need to wake up people, dont u see that even Vojvodina,bosnian region of Serbia, preshevo and bujanovc dont like to be a part of Serbia anymore. You people are destroying even your own country not to mention Kosova.
I promise you in 1 year Kosovo will be indepedent and Vojvodina issue will come to international attention.
Serbs, understand that you are not "special people" we all need to be equal and let go of nationalism.
To Klaudian: read Lavrov's remarks many, many times. You will see what you see. Russia has always been against partition of Kosovo, because it would entail a lot of "partitions" all over the world (see as well article against Kosovo partition and with critical remarks on Mr. Ishinger's statement in "Nezavisimaya Gazeta", Moscow, 27 August 2007) before spreading distorted info.
My post goes to B92 primarily and then to the rest of the participants on the forum.
I feel discussed to read most of the comment in the forms of B92 news, given that most of the participants live in the west and enjoy being treated equal and their HR being promoted at all times. Yet, you access the forums and all you can read personalized, racist and derogatory comments with intent and without regards to anything whatsoever.
I am afraid this leads me to belief that 90% of the participants here (you know who you are) have no intellectual argument or are inept to articulate their points in respectful manner without insulting themselves first and the rest of the readers.
Instead of having a debate about how to hold accountable rouge governments in both Serbia and Kosovo/a and getting them to work for the people and improve the lives of ordinary Serbian and Kosovan citizen, you argue about myths, propaganda and personal prejudices with no or very little regard to the way of life in the ground. I recently visited Kosovo/a recently and I was in contact with both communities, Serbian and Albanian and guess what they want!? BETTER LIFE CHANCES. All of you, grow up please and stop preaching hatred towards each other, your views will change nothing with regards to the final status.
Ahmet Isufi - If someone else is using your name, or hijacking someone elses name, it is time B92 started a log-in / personal profile policy.
Although I don't agree with all your postings, I don't think it's fair that people on any side should be using someone's name/ID other than their own to smear or flame.
"On the other hand, there was a Serb family in Peja/Pec that saved my uncle and his family from the murder of Serb Paramilitaries helping them leave the town to Montenegro"
Lazer, there are reasonable and brave poeple everywhere, I do not doubt that.
but where were those reasonable Albanians when a 74-year old serbian woman was beaten up by "brave" albanian teenagers? or when serbian cultural heritage, proof of the serbian identity of Kosovo was burnt down by the albanian mob?
I asked the Albanians here to condemn that cowardish behaviour towards that old woman - Albanians ( here ) stayed quiet!
why did you not condemn it?
Albanians, unfortunately, have proven that they do not deserve what they are demanding, not to speak about the lack of justification, be it historically, legally or whatever.
you can start condemning those hate crimes against the serbian population NOW! are you gonna condemn it?
I dont understand why the albanians are so frustrated and irritated at Russia and their policies. The law is the law and must apply to all including albanians. Burning churches, killing minorities in the province wont give you any independence, especially as the murderers still are free and not brought to justice.
"The Kosovar Serbs get along with Albanians better then Serbia's Serbs."
All Serbs defend their own. We Serbs in Serbia proper responded to the calls of our brethren in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo when they needed us the most and will continue to do so. You need to meditate on the meaning of CCCC.
well, Lazer, that´s the first time I read that an Albanian condemns that brutal beating.
I appreciate it, althoug it should go without a saying, in this case I say bravo for showing a first sign of bravery against violent cowards.
as to myself, I certainly cannot ask for respect of own cultural heritage if I do not respect others´heritage, monuments etc.
so, I think we shouldn´t be divided on this particular point.
poeple will come together again, I don´t doubt that, it takes a long time, I am sure, but it will happen.
and since it worked in other places, just remember France and Germany who fought for centuries up to WW II and now work together as friends, accept that it is not "kosova", it is Serbia, and you are just one citizen of it. and since it is all ending up within the EU... you should all come to reason and forget to think in 18th-century arguments, and start thinking of a better future for all poeple in that region.
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