"Kosovo talks end on December 10"

10 December. Its just and 100 days. It was a long way of more then 1000 years waiting for freedom to come, but it's still beautiful because it's freedom.

...ok, his words are as honest and direct as they can be, coming from a diplomat of his calibre...but one thing must be stressed out here and that is that Kosovo has no other solution other than independence from Serbia, that is a matter of survival, and survival is only viable if none of Kosova's borders are touched. If Europe (EU) wants trouble than start erasing and re-drawing borders as per ethnic lines. Kosovo must and will remain multi-ethnic! Someone might think I am not making any sense, but I assure you that it will remain multi-ethnic, it always was, it is like a crossroad between north-south and east-west of Balkans, furthermore it is in the bottom of one continent and very close to the gate of another continent, therefore it is a natural crossroad (not to mention that here lies the line between western and eastern democracy (Russia))...

"I admit that some states are extremely concerned. Furthermore, everyone knows that an agreement has to be reached, as otherwise common foreign and security policy would come under severe threat," he warned.

my dear Albanians, since the US-"diplomats" know very well that they cannot rule the world if more and more states do not accept their vision of how it has to be...

I doubt that you can seriously evaluate the situation you are in.
blinded by the extremist-phrases your "hero"-leaders are telling you...

just declare independence unilaterally,...it won´t change your position, I am quite sure of that.

and...not because I am serbian, no... just because international law and the UN-charter is far more important than the illusions of merely 1.8 million mislead kids...
( most of them are kids, so please don´t start complaining about "serbian arrogance"... it wouldn´t improve your situation at all )

So when these talks end with no agreement because the Serbian Albanians in Kosovo & Metohija won't come to a compromise what willhappen then?

Maybe there will be another round of talks?

Seeing as no one can legally recognise an illegal declaration without UN recognition unless they wish to create another non-entity like northern Cyprus the talks will thus continue until a solution is found that is acceptable and in the mean time the local economy will get even worse!

Oh laki,

Why are you spreading propaganda? Where are those 15,000 bodies you are referring to? Do they include the bodies of albanians murdered by kla?
Too much CNN and BBC is not good for you

Did you forget how this conflict started in the first place? Did you forget that it started with kla launching terrorists attacks against innocent Serb civillians and police?

Do you know what the unnemployment rate is in KiM? If albanians claim they have been controlling KiM since 99, what have they done for their people? Nothing.

Now these talks have a clear direction and a definite time scale. It is also useful of Mr Ischinger to narrow the scope of the talks into a choice between supervised independence and “extended autonomy, which Serbia has sadly thus far failed to outline”.
That sounds like a common sense policy with real purpose and set deadline.
A compromise would certainly be better for international community and Europe in particular nonetheless he also acknowledged that the chances of compromise are slim.
For me this comes down to how badly each side wants this.
For Albanians, as renowned Albanian writer Ismail Kadare highlighted just a few days ago the fight is about one of the oldest things that humanity has asked for, Freedom.

"I admit that some states are extremely concerned. Furthermore, everyone knows that an agreement has to be reached, as otherwise common foreign and security policy would come under severe threat," Ischinger warned.

So I guess you wont recognise it without Serbian consent then?

Lets be realistic now Mr. Ischinger. You represent the European countries from the Contact Group (CG) and no one else. Just because you choose your own title doesn't mean you speak for the EU. In fact, I am pretty sure most countries within the union are extremely upset you are speaking on their behalf when they never authorized it, and its more important for them to get energy from Russia then giving independence to terrorist organisations in the Balkans and destabilizing the region for a long, long time. If not worse.

Mr. Isinger, you also must understand that no matter what YOU u decide to do on Dec. 10th it will mean a precedent, as well as complete unilateral action against a UN recognised state. If I were you I would worry about EU's own little Iraq in the Balkans.

After December 10th, there might be 2 or 3 months of preparations and Prishtina will declare independence and be recognized by the US, EU and the majority of other world countries.

Serbia has a choice it can lose small and get as much as it can for the Serbian minority in Kosova or lose big and continue to resist making things extremely difficult!

One way or another Kosova will be independent, we will not rest until we make it so.

I can see your frustration from your comments saying something kids,kids but still is better to be kids than too old like Mr Kostunica who forgets whats his post, how big democrat he is and Moskwa is the only his destination.

EU had enough of Serbia as destabiliser of the Balkan and EU can not afford to spent more time and money on BG's immature government/diplomats,who some of them are reviling themselfs and their paths leading to Milosevic where he stopped.
(avi, 31. August 2007 17:27)

don´t worry avi, I am not frustrated at all!
the Albanians lost the battle within the UNSC, and that´s it!
you don´t seem to realize it yet!
when I speak of albanian kids...I am addressing to those who write in a quite immature manner here, about "one and only global super-powers" and "thousands of years of illyrians" and whatsoever ...

it´s only rubbish those Albanians HERE are bringing up.
of course I do not doubt that there are also intelligent and moderate Albanians, but they are not represented here in this forum.

once again, the Albanians here are only complaining, sending out accusations or plain threats ( who´s the destabilzer here, actually? ), that´s all they are reduced to, since they have NO ARGUMENTS.
that´s a fact, if you do not see that, then you are incurable.

but to give you the answer once again: don´t worry, I think that it is quite the other way around, you just do not realize yet what the reality is.

but, you will, that´s for sure!

I don't see how albanians can declare independence on something that does not belong to them. Legally and by all international documents Kosovo is part of Serbia.

It is pretty easy to defend that position even if it comes to war or whatever happens. I mean, if you have the law on your side it will be damn difficult for the opponent to "succeed" in the long run. They can declare inpenpendence how much they want but in reality their words and their actions are meaningless.

I don't see albanians winning not prior dec 10 nor after. It more looks like they will lose everything just like the Krajina serbs did in Croatia.

All Putin has to say is bye bye gas for you ischinger and then it's a done deal.

TO: Jovan and Serbian camp

You have absolutely NO right to invoke international law and the UN-charter. After ethnically cleansing Bosnian cities and villages one by one , murdering torturing everything and everyone in your path including the same soldiers of the same organization on which behalf you try to make your argument; then in Kosova attempting to do the same by killing 15000 thousand civilian , trying to hide their bodies, and expelling over 1 million Albanian out of the border YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL UPON THE INTERNATIONAL LAW AND UN-charter SINCE YOU DIDN’T RESPECT THE FOUNNDATION CHARTER’s OF THE SAME ORGANIZATION YOU CALL UPON .

Rade , in your coment# 12, you keeps writing this =this and so on, but you got it all up side down. Hey fellow is the other way around with your math. GDR=SERBIA TODAY.

Mike
With all due respect you are missing the point here. Independence for us will mean that we can at last can be genuinely free from oppression and anything that was associated with that. We have nothing against tutelage form Europe in which we inspire to be some day.

so, ist it again "year´s end time" ???

yeah, the farmers union eu is going to tell me where my country is.

there won´t be an indiependent kosovo, not within un, not within eu!

it´s still hard to bluff without ANY card in the hand.

but dream on, if 2 mio. albanians can dream for 8 years, why shouldn´t you?

Looks like the EU is serious about finishing this off for good. It coudlnt be any clearer: Ischinger is clearly pointing towards December 10 as THE deadline, and the need to move on independence if no deal is reached. Its about buying time for the Europeans to reach a consensus...

“I recall the time when the two German nations had completely irreconcilable positions – on the one hand, you had the FRG’s call to be the representative nation, on the other the GDR who wanted to be recognized as an independent entity."

An excellent analogy;

Federal Republic of Germany (FRG) = Serbia

Communist German Democratic Republic (GDR) = Albanian Kosovo Republic

Where is the GDR today?

In the dustbin of history.

People who gamble on all or nothing usually end up with nothing.It is not a smart idea to risk all your chips on one hand.You guys hear about Macau,China surpassing Las Vegas in gambling revenue?The Chinese are unfortunately going to own the US in a very short period of time considering 1.3 billion are the house and 300 million Americans are the wreckless gamblers.

As I’ve said before, the US is washing its hands of the ‘independence’ idea and using Europe to deliver the news to the Kosovo Albanian leadership. Independence is no longer a ‘done deal’, so Serbia is being asked to outline extended autonomy in more detail.

Promises are not worth the paper they’re written on. Only a signed contract is valid. Serbia has a signed contract and the Kosovo Albanian leadership has promises.

“extended autonomy, which Serbia has sadly thus far failed to outline”.

Maybe - just to give the good example - can mr. Ischinger explain how the Ahtisaari proposal that he keeps promoting will lead to the return of 150,000 refugees to Kosovo.

B92,
I send couple of my comments on the issue and I dont see it posted.
What seems to be the problem?

"I don't see how albanians can declare independence on something that does not belong to them. Legally and by all international documents Kosovo is part of Serbia."

Matthew, what are you talking about? Is this a lapsus of yours? Who does Kosovo belong to then? Do you think it belongs to you or Kate, or Cvele at al. who live in some other country/place?
What is this no-sense you talk about. Kosovo belong to the people living in it and by that I mean K-Serbs and K-Albanians.
What international documents has Serbia in its possession, resolution 1244? How many resolutions have been passed by UN on Iran, Irak, North Korea etc. and how many times they have been ignored? It is simply unrealistic to hope that a piece of paper will hold 2m souls hostage to a state that committed murder to them.
It is frankly waste of time and annoyance to write the same things again but I am responding to this comment of yours because you strike me as a person with good judgment. Unless you are not Matthew that usually writes here.
The best Serbia can hope for is the partition of the northern tip of Kosovo. Personally I would favor the partition because I believe it will make the Kosovo government job easier after independence. Unfortunately if Serbia requests partition, there is nothing that can hold K-Albanians accountants for not nurturing a multi-ethnic society in Kosovo anymore. Multi-ethnicity was the drive behind which Ahtisaari built his plan. If his plan is refused by Serbia then is the Serbian government to be held responsible for what will happen to few K-Serbs living in the inner enclaves inside Kosovo. I really hope that two communities will be able to make it with each other but you and others have to understand that for that to happen the majority of that society, who happen to be K-Albanians, has to feel secure and safe and the only way that could happen is through independence. There was no legality on what Serbia and its military did 8 years ago and as a result of that there is not much legal argument left to its sovereignty over the province.

#9 Nick,
Who are you trying to foul?
There will be unilateral recognition of KOSOVO?

Hmm, Do you mean like the same recgnition that the Turkish republic of Cyprus, Taiwan, Kurdistan or the Basque region in spain have gotten? Wich countries do you think will recognize an independent Kosovo?

"What international documents has Serbia in its possession, resolution 1244? How many resolutions have been passed by UN on Iran, Irak, North Korea etc. and how many times they have been ignored?"

Dino,
it would be quite helpful for yourself if you tried to answer your question!
Once you realize how many UNSC-resolutions were ignored ( still don´t know where you are getting your informations from ) you will probably see that your insinuation makes no sense.

for your information, if UNSC-resolutions were not binding, they wouldn´t be made.

I never understood the problems of the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija (and in the rest of Serbia). If they want to wave the Albanian flag, want to speak Albanian and want to fight among themselves the vendetta's, why don't they all go to the country that is already theirs: ALBANIA. And furthermore, I expect from them a big "Thank You, Serbia" on their way out, since most of them who are living now in Kosmet were granted hospitality to Yugoslavia when they escaped from Mr Hoxha. I guess they where tired of building bunkers every hundred meters or so in that so-called "Workers and Peasants Paradise". They have really misused the facts that they were gasts!!

Three is a good number for Serbians & Americans for that much - let's look at American baseball for example - three strikes & you're out.

Strike one - Martti Ahtisaari plan - over & done with
Strike two - November 28 is the claimed day of independence by Ceku
Strike three - albanians tried to create greater albania & it didn't happen

You're out!

All right Mr EU. How about you place it under a vote in the EU senate and see what happens. Im sure that all 27 countries will just jump at a chance to please Kosovo and decimate their relations with Russia and Serbia.

village-bey,

Can that writer perhaps explain why the Serbs of Northern Kosovo should not enjoy this freemdom?
Let them stay in Serbia!

And indeed, isn't it easier for Kosovo to govern itself with this huge minority?

And about FREEMDOM: why doesn't America immediatelly recognize Taiwan then? Or Tibet!

We will all have to wait & see what happens, but the bottom line is a group of invaders should not be rewarded with any part of KosovO.

#28 Nick,

How many countries have recognized the following "countries":

Turkish republic of northern Cyprus
Taiwan
Kurdistan
Basque region in Spain

Do you really think that Kosovo will get more recognition than theese "countries"?

No, if you will get independence it will have to b within the proper ways, not a selfproclaimed independece made by some former guerilla/terrorist fighters.

Srboslav you in dire need for some history leasons. Taiwan, oh my god you don't have a clue about that country. Taiwan has no need to have a UN seat even though they desrve one, but also they have no need to have diplomatic relations with belgarde either. They are well advance in technollogy and they get the best weapons from US and Western Countries. Cjina only if it uses nuclear weapons to level Taiwan otherwise they have no chance in hell to overpower Taiwan with over bilion population. Oh , don't forget every time China tried to fleks its power over Taiwan , immediately US dispatched its Navy Fleet in the area and China stayed put.Basque(ETA) forget about it , none of those places =KosovA.

and...not because I am serbian, no... just because international law and the UN-charter is far more important
(Jovan, 31. August 2007 13:49)
Sorry for the late reply!
How important were these laws to you in 1998 and 1999. Current Serbian leaders do no differ from the end century leaders, so you would like someone to respect intl laws only at your convinience.

If even such a scenario as envisioned by Ischinger manifests, December 10 will not be Kosovo's independence day because a period of supervision will ensue. Kosovo is in absolutely no position to stand on its own two feet as a functioning state. There will have to be an interim period of at least a few years of EU direct administration that will need to build credible political institutions, root out organized criminal enterprises at all current levels of government (helped in no small bit by UNMIK), and provide a roadmap of modernization that will make international businesses comfortable enough to invest their money in such a place. The independence that many Albanians on this site seem to be hoping for is still quite a ways down the road.

And this is all assuming something will happen by December 10.

jovan
I can see your frustration from your comments saying something kids,kids but still is better to be kids than too old like Mr Kostunica who forgets whats his post, how big democrat he is and Moskwa is the only his destination.

EU had enough of Serbia as destabiliser of the Balkan and EU can not afford to spent more time and money on BG's immature government/diplomats,who some of them are reviling themselfs and their paths leading to Milosevic where he stopped.

Village-bey, I wasn't implying as such. I was merely stating that there is still a long road and much to do even after the paperwork has been signed. Many Albanians seem to think that independence will be instant and that such independence will immediately solve many - if not all - their problems. The real work is only beginnning, and it will be an uphill battle by most West analytic accounts.

Srboslav,

Yes, that is exactly what is going to happen after December 10th.

IF 90% have the right of indpendence then 90% of serbs in republika Srpska have a right too..
If kosovo becomes independent then more states will want to do the same thing which will be catastrophic e.g Catolonia, Abkhazia, Taiwan etc.
The albanians have no right taking land away from another country. The Greeks want northern Epirus(which a lot of Greeks live there) back from Albania that they stole!

I keep saying this. The EU, particularly Merkel, with help from GP and France are buying time and are working behind the scenes to get all of the other EU members on the same page during this 120 day period. Having the defence Minister of Germany say that Kosovo will be independent, says alot. And since both the US and Russia have agreed to let the EU take the initiative, we can safely assume that some form of supervised independece will be the final outcome.

The only thing that needs to be negotiated is for the Serbian side to try and get some more accessions. Albanians won't like them, but if they're smart they can get even more concessions than the Ahtisari plan provided if they play their cards right. If not they will adapt Ahtisari's plan, perhaps with some added things for the minority serbs in the north because of Russia's insistence, because these serbian politicans don't seem to have a clue as to what they're askind and like ischinger said they don't even know what the autonomy that they keep talking about is themselves.

“Unless you are not Matthew that usually writes here.”

I always capitalize “Albanian” and “Serb”. Probably its just someone with my very common name, so I’ll use Knez Matthew from now on, no one else is that crazy.

Israel and the Palestinians are prime examples of ignored UN resolutions. Kashmir is also another failed attempt at negotiation through UN resolutions between two nuclear armed countries that engaged in war 4 times in the last 50 years.

The reality is Kosovo represents a European threat, not a global one like the very dangerous situations outlined above. So it will get attention. Sad but true.

Dino, minorities in some number will exist in both Serbia and Kosova (the future Albanian partition, we’ll keep the “Kosovo” part). Any partition plan must be based on the principles of minority protection set out in the Ahtisaari plan, if anything it needs to be more specific and contain sustainable protections, not ones that can easily be revoked. These should be standards throughout the Balkans.

If it’s not settled between the Serbs and the Albanians, I believe the international community will prefer to pass a UN resolution imposing partition on Kosovo rather then risk war and further weakening the UN just to keep Northern Kosovo where Albanians do not make up the majority. That does appear to be a solution both sides, the EU and Russia, can agree to and might pass the UNSC. The Albanians won’t go to war over that, your lives will not be in danger and you’ll have what you want, to live in freedom.

However, I do not support an imposed solution. I believe an agreed upon solution is the only truly wise way forward as it sets a positive precedent for the region as a whole. We also both have things to offer the other that might make sense. We control your future (Trepca) and you control our past (our Churches). It would be shear folly and lunacy not to discuss possible alternatives, not to even consider it.

I do believe Serbia has international law on her side, however, I don’t put too much faith in that. However, it does give us a foundation for presenting our side.

Everyone is so stuck up on UNSC not passing things...big deal. The world knows who has the final say, and the country that has the final say, will have it.....no matter what!

They did in 1999. Where was UNSC then? :)

Ron,
The Serbs of Kosova will have their freedoms guarantied not by the goodwill of the Albanians but of their own status as rightful citizens of the new country. Isn’t our business to deny freedoms to anyone being this Serb or any other nationality.
As for Tibet and Taiwan your logic doesn’t add up. Two wrongs do not make a right. Tibet not being free doesn’t equalise to no-freedom for others.

"Everyone is so stuck up on UNSC not passing things...big deal. The world knows who has the final say, and the country that has the final say, will have it.....no matter what!

They did in 1999. Where was UNSC then? :)
(Funcakes, 1. September 2007 21:24)"

Yes, but at the end of the day, even this Yankee cowboy had to ask ask for a UNSC resolution. And to concede to Russian and Chinese demand for 1244 to acknowledge Yugoslavia's sovereignty over Kosovo. Your bullying cowboy is not all that powerful back in 1999, and even less so today!

10 December. Its just and 100 days. It was a long way of more then 1000 years waiting for freedom to come, but it's still beautiful because it's freedom.

TO: Jovan and Serbian camp

You have absolutely NO right to invoke international law and the UN-charter. After ethnically cleansing Bosnian cities and villages one by one , murdering torturing everything and everyone in your path including the same soldiers of the same organization on which behalf you try to make your argument; then in Kosova attempting to do the same by killing 15000 thousand civilian , trying to hide their bodies, and expelling over 1 million Albanian out of the border YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL UPON THE INTERNATIONAL LAW AND UN-charter SINCE YOU DIDN’T RESPECT THE FOUNNDATION CHARTER’s OF THE SAME ORGANIZATION YOU CALL UPON .

"I admit that some states are extremely concerned. Furthermore, everyone knows that an agreement has to be reached, as otherwise common foreign and security policy would come under severe threat," he warned.

my dear Albanians, since the US-"diplomats" know very well that they cannot rule the world if more and more states do not accept their vision of how it has to be...

I doubt that you can seriously evaluate the situation you are in.
blinded by the extremist-phrases your "hero"-leaders are telling you...

just declare independence unilaterally,...it won´t change your position, I am quite sure of that.

and...not because I am serbian, no... just because international law and the UN-charter is far more important than the illusions of merely 1.8 million mislead kids...
( most of them are kids, so please don´t start complaining about "serbian arrogance"... it wouldn´t improve your situation at all )

...ok, his words are as honest and direct as they can be, coming from a diplomat of his calibre...but one thing must be stressed out here and that is that Kosovo has no other solution other than independence from Serbia, that is a matter of survival, and survival is only viable if none of Kosova's borders are touched. If Europe (EU) wants trouble than start erasing and re-drawing borders as per ethnic lines. Kosovo must and will remain multi-ethnic! Someone might think I am not making any sense, but I assure you that it will remain multi-ethnic, it always was, it is like a crossroad between north-south and east-west of Balkans, furthermore it is in the bottom of one continent and very close to the gate of another continent, therefore it is a natural crossroad (not to mention that here lies the line between western and eastern democracy (Russia))...

After December 10th, there might be 2 or 3 months of preparations and Prishtina will declare independence and be recognized by the US, EU and the majority of other world countries.

Serbia has a choice it can lose small and get as much as it can for the Serbian minority in Kosova or lose big and continue to resist making things extremely difficult!

One way or another Kosova will be independent, we will not rest until we make it so.

Now these talks have a clear direction and a definite time scale. It is also useful of Mr Ischinger to narrow the scope of the talks into a choice between supervised independence and “extended autonomy, which Serbia has sadly thus far failed to outline”.
That sounds like a common sense policy with real purpose and set deadline.
A compromise would certainly be better for international community and Europe in particular nonetheless he also acknowledged that the chances of compromise are slim.
For me this comes down to how badly each side wants this.
For Albanians, as renowned Albanian writer Ismail Kadare highlighted just a few days ago the fight is about one of the oldest things that humanity has asked for, Freedom.

All Putin has to say is bye bye gas for you ischinger and then it's a done deal.

"I admit that some states are extremely concerned. Furthermore, everyone knows that an agreement has to be reached, as otherwise common foreign and security policy would come under severe threat," Ischinger warned.

So I guess you wont recognise it without Serbian consent then?

Lets be realistic now Mr. Ischinger. You represent the European countries from the Contact Group (CG) and no one else. Just because you choose your own title doesn't mean you speak for the EU. In fact, I am pretty sure most countries within the union are extremely upset you are speaking on their behalf when they never authorized it, and its more important for them to get energy from Russia then giving independence to terrorist organisations in the Balkans and destabilizing the region for a long, long time. If not worse.

Mr. Isinger, you also must understand that no matter what YOU u decide to do on Dec. 10th it will mean a precedent, as well as complete unilateral action against a UN recognised state. If I were you I would worry about EU's own little Iraq in the Balkans.

Looks like the EU is serious about finishing this off for good. It coudlnt be any clearer: Ischinger is clearly pointing towards December 10 as THE deadline, and the need to move on independence if no deal is reached. Its about buying time for the Europeans to reach a consensus...

jovan
I can see your frustration from your comments saying something kids,kids but still is better to be kids than too old like Mr Kostunica who forgets whats his post, how big democrat he is and Moskwa is the only his destination.

EU had enough of Serbia as destabiliser of the Balkan and EU can not afford to spent more time and money on BG's immature government/diplomats,who some of them are reviling themselfs and their paths leading to Milosevic where he stopped.

Mike
With all due respect you are missing the point here. Independence for us will mean that we can at last can be genuinely free from oppression and anything that was associated with that. We have nothing against tutelage form Europe in which we inspire to be some day.

So when these talks end with no agreement because the Serbian Albanians in Kosovo & Metohija won't come to a compromise what willhappen then?

Maybe there will be another round of talks?

Seeing as no one can legally recognise an illegal declaration without UN recognition unless they wish to create another non-entity like northern Cyprus the talks will thus continue until a solution is found that is acceptable and in the mean time the local economy will get even worse!

If even such a scenario as envisioned by Ischinger manifests, December 10 will not be Kosovo's independence day because a period of supervision will ensue. Kosovo is in absolutely no position to stand on its own two feet as a functioning state. There will have to be an interim period of at least a few years of EU direct administration that will need to build credible political institutions, root out organized criminal enterprises at all current levels of government (helped in no small bit by UNMIK), and provide a roadmap of modernization that will make international businesses comfortable enough to invest their money in such a place. The independence that many Albanians on this site seem to be hoping for is still quite a ways down the road.

And this is all assuming something will happen by December 10.

“I recall the time when the two German nations had completely irreconcilable positions – on the one hand, you had the FRG’s call to be the representative nation, on the other the GDR who wanted to be recognized as an independent entity."

An excellent analogy;

Federal Republic of Germany (FRG) = Serbia

Communist German Democratic Republic (GDR) = Albanian Kosovo Republic

Where is the GDR today?

In the dustbin of history.

Oh laki,

Why are you spreading propaganda? Where are those 15,000 bodies you are referring to? Do they include the bodies of albanians murdered by kla?
Too much CNN and BBC is not good for you

Did you forget how this conflict started in the first place? Did you forget that it started with kla launching terrorists attacks against innocent Serb civillians and police?

Do you know what the unnemployment rate is in KiM? If albanians claim they have been controlling KiM since 99, what have they done for their people? Nothing.

Rade , in your coment# 12, you keeps writing this =this and so on, but you got it all up side down. Hey fellow is the other way around with your math. GDR=SERBIA TODAY.

so, ist it again "year´s end time" ???

yeah, the farmers union eu is going to tell me where my country is.

there won´t be an indiependent kosovo, not within un, not within eu!

it´s still hard to bluff without ANY card in the hand.

but dream on, if 2 mio. albanians can dream for 8 years, why shouldn´t you?

I can see your frustration from your comments saying something kids,kids but still is better to be kids than too old like Mr Kostunica who forgets whats his post, how big democrat he is and Moskwa is the only his destination.

EU had enough of Serbia as destabiliser of the Balkan and EU can not afford to spent more time and money on BG's immature government/diplomats,who some of them are reviling themselfs and their paths leading to Milosevic where he stopped.
(avi, 31. August 2007 17:27)

don´t worry avi, I am not frustrated at all!
the Albanians lost the battle within the UNSC, and that´s it!
you don´t seem to realize it yet!
when I speak of albanian kids...I am addressing to those who write in a quite immature manner here, about "one and only global super-powers" and "thousands of years of illyrians" and whatsoever ...

it´s only rubbish those Albanians HERE are bringing up.
of course I do not doubt that there are also intelligent and moderate Albanians, but they are not represented here in this forum.

once again, the Albanians here are only complaining, sending out accusations or plain threats ( who´s the destabilzer here, actually? ), that´s all they are reduced to, since they have NO ARGUMENTS.
that´s a fact, if you do not see that, then you are incurable.

but to give you the answer once again: don´t worry, I think that it is quite the other way around, you just do not realize yet what the reality is.

but, you will, that´s for sure!

I don't see how albanians can declare independence on something that does not belong to them. Legally and by all international documents Kosovo is part of Serbia.

It is pretty easy to defend that position even if it comes to war or whatever happens. I mean, if you have the law on your side it will be damn difficult for the opponent to "succeed" in the long run. They can declare inpenpendence how much they want but in reality their words and their actions are meaningless.

I don't see albanians winning not prior dec 10 nor after. It more looks like they will lose everything just like the Krajina serbs did in Croatia.

People who gamble on all or nothing usually end up with nothing.It is not a smart idea to risk all your chips on one hand.You guys hear about Macau,China surpassing Las Vegas in gambling revenue?The Chinese are unfortunately going to own the US in a very short period of time considering 1.3 billion are the house and 300 million Americans are the wreckless gamblers.

“extended autonomy, which Serbia has sadly thus far failed to outline”.

Maybe - just to give the good example - can mr. Ischinger explain how the Ahtisaari proposal that he keeps promoting will lead to the return of 150,000 refugees to Kosovo.

Village-bey, I wasn't implying as such. I was merely stating that there is still a long road and much to do even after the paperwork has been signed. Many Albanians seem to think that independence will be instant and that such independence will immediately solve many - if not all - their problems. The real work is only beginnning, and it will be an uphill battle by most West analytic accounts.

B92,
I send couple of my comments on the issue and I dont see it posted.
What seems to be the problem?

"I don't see how albanians can declare independence on something that does not belong to them. Legally and by all international documents Kosovo is part of Serbia."

Matthew, what are you talking about? Is this a lapsus of yours? Who does Kosovo belong to then? Do you think it belongs to you or Kate, or Cvele at al. who live in some other country/place?
What is this no-sense you talk about. Kosovo belong to the people living in it and by that I mean K-Serbs and K-Albanians.
What international documents has Serbia in its possession, resolution 1244? How many resolutions have been passed by UN on Iran, Irak, North Korea etc. and how many times they have been ignored? It is simply unrealistic to hope that a piece of paper will hold 2m souls hostage to a state that committed murder to them.
It is frankly waste of time and annoyance to write the same things again but I am responding to this comment of yours because you strike me as a person with good judgment. Unless you are not Matthew that usually writes here.
The best Serbia can hope for is the partition of the northern tip of Kosovo. Personally I would favor the partition because I believe it will make the Kosovo government job easier after independence. Unfortunately if Serbia requests partition, there is nothing that can hold K-Albanians accountants for not nurturing a multi-ethnic society in Kosovo anymore. Multi-ethnicity was the drive behind which Ahtisaari built his plan. If his plan is refused by Serbia then is the Serbian government to be held responsible for what will happen to few K-Serbs living in the inner enclaves inside Kosovo. I really hope that two communities will be able to make it with each other but you and others have to understand that for that to happen the majority of that society, who happen to be K-Albanians, has to feel secure and safe and the only way that could happen is through independence. There was no legality on what Serbia and its military did 8 years ago and as a result of that there is not much legal argument left to its sovereignty over the province.

#9 Nick,
Who are you trying to foul?
There will be unilateral recognition of KOSOVO?

Hmm, Do you mean like the same recgnition that the Turkish republic of Cyprus, Taiwan, Kurdistan or the Basque region in spain have gotten? Wich countries do you think will recognize an independent Kosovo?

"What international documents has Serbia in its possession, resolution 1244? How many resolutions have been passed by UN on Iran, Irak, North Korea etc. and how many times they have been ignored?"

Dino,
it would be quite helpful for yourself if you tried to answer your question!
Once you realize how many UNSC-resolutions were ignored ( still don´t know where you are getting your informations from ) you will probably see that your insinuation makes no sense.

for your information, if UNSC-resolutions were not binding, they wouldn´t be made.

IF 90% have the right of indpendence then 90% of serbs in republika Srpska have a right too..
If kosovo becomes independent then more states will want to do the same thing which will be catastrophic e.g Catolonia, Abkhazia, Taiwan etc.
The albanians have no right taking land away from another country. The Greeks want northern Epirus(which a lot of Greeks live there) back from Albania that they stole!

Srboslav you in dire need for some history leasons. Taiwan, oh my god you don't have a clue about that country. Taiwan has no need to have a UN seat even though they desrve one, but also they have no need to have diplomatic relations with belgarde either. They are well advance in technollogy and they get the best weapons from US and Western Countries. Cjina only if it uses nuclear weapons to level Taiwan otherwise they have no chance in hell to overpower Taiwan with over bilion population. Oh , don't forget every time China tried to fleks its power over Taiwan , immediately US dispatched its Navy Fleet in the area and China stayed put.Basque(ETA) forget about it , none of those places =KosovA.

As I’ve said before, the US is washing its hands of the ‘independence’ idea and using Europe to deliver the news to the Kosovo Albanian leadership. Independence is no longer a ‘done deal’, so Serbia is being asked to outline extended autonomy in more detail.

Promises are not worth the paper they’re written on. Only a signed contract is valid. Serbia has a signed contract and the Kosovo Albanian leadership has promises.

Srboslav,

Yes, that is exactly what is going to happen after December 10th.

I never understood the problems of the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija (and in the rest of Serbia). If they want to wave the Albanian flag, want to speak Albanian and want to fight among themselves the vendetta's, why don't they all go to the country that is already theirs: ALBANIA. And furthermore, I expect from them a big "Thank You, Serbia" on their way out, since most of them who are living now in Kosmet were granted hospitality to Yugoslavia when they escaped from Mr Hoxha. I guess they where tired of building bunkers every hundred meters or so in that so-called "Workers and Peasants Paradise". They have really misused the facts that they were gasts!!

All right Mr EU. How about you place it under a vote in the EU senate and see what happens. Im sure that all 27 countries will just jump at a chance to please Kosovo and decimate their relations with Russia and Serbia.

village-bey,

Can that writer perhaps explain why the Serbs of Northern Kosovo should not enjoy this freemdom?
Let them stay in Serbia!

And indeed, isn't it easier for Kosovo to govern itself with this huge minority?

And about FREEMDOM: why doesn't America immediatelly recognize Taiwan then? Or Tibet!

We will all have to wait & see what happens, but the bottom line is a group of invaders should not be rewarded with any part of KosovO.

#28 Nick,

How many countries have recognized the following "countries":

Turkish republic of northern Cyprus
Taiwan
Kurdistan
Basque region in Spain

Do you really think that Kosovo will get more recognition than theese "countries"?

No, if you will get independence it will have to b within the proper ways, not a selfproclaimed independece made by some former guerilla/terrorist fighters.

Three is a good number for Serbians & Americans for that much - let's look at American baseball for example - three strikes & you're out.

Strike one - Martti Ahtisaari plan - over & done with
Strike two - November 28 is the claimed day of independence by Ceku
Strike three - albanians tried to create greater albania & it didn't happen

You're out!

“Unless you are not Matthew that usually writes here.”

I always capitalize “Albanian” and “Serb”. Probably its just someone with my very common name, so I’ll use Knez Matthew from now on, no one else is that crazy.

Israel and the Palestinians are prime examples of ignored UN resolutions. Kashmir is also another failed attempt at negotiation through UN resolutions between two nuclear armed countries that engaged in war 4 times in the last 50 years.

The reality is Kosovo represents a European threat, not a global one like the very dangerous situations outlined above. So it will get attention. Sad but true.

Dino, minorities in some number will exist in both Serbia and Kosova (the future Albanian partition, we’ll keep the “Kosovo” part). Any partition plan must be based on the principles of minority protection set out in the Ahtisaari plan, if anything it needs to be more specific and contain sustainable protections, not ones that can easily be revoked. These should be standards throughout the Balkans.

If it’s not settled between the Serbs and the Albanians, I believe the international community will prefer to pass a UN resolution imposing partition on Kosovo rather then risk war and further weakening the UN just to keep Northern Kosovo where Albanians do not make up the majority. That does appear to be a solution both sides, the EU and Russia, can agree to and might pass the UNSC. The Albanians won’t go to war over that, your lives will not be in danger and you’ll have what you want, to live in freedom.

However, I do not support an imposed solution. I believe an agreed upon solution is the only truly wise way forward as it sets a positive precedent for the region as a whole. We also both have things to offer the other that might make sense. We control your future (Trepca) and you control our past (our Churches). It would be shear folly and lunacy not to discuss possible alternatives, not to even consider it.

I do believe Serbia has international law on her side, however, I don’t put too much faith in that. However, it does give us a foundation for presenting our side.

I keep saying this. The EU, particularly Merkel, with help from GP and France are buying time and are working behind the scenes to get all of the other EU members on the same page during this 120 day period. Having the defence Minister of Germany say that Kosovo will be independent, says alot. And since both the US and Russia have agreed to let the EU take the initiative, we can safely assume that some form of supervised independece will be the final outcome.

The only thing that needs to be negotiated is for the Serbian side to try and get some more accessions. Albanians won't like them, but if they're smart they can get even more concessions than the Ahtisari plan provided if they play their cards right. If not they will adapt Ahtisari's plan, perhaps with some added things for the minority serbs in the north because of Russia's insistence, because these serbian politicans don't seem to have a clue as to what they're askind and like ischinger said they don't even know what the autonomy that they keep talking about is themselves.

and...not because I am serbian, no... just because international law and the UN-charter is far more important
(Jovan, 31. August 2007 13:49)
Sorry for the late reply!
How important were these laws to you in 1998 and 1999. Current Serbian leaders do no differ from the end century leaders, so you would like someone to respect intl laws only at your convinience.

Everyone is so stuck up on UNSC not passing things...big deal. The world knows who has the final say, and the country that has the final say, will have it.....no matter what!

They did in 1999. Where was UNSC then? :)

Ron,
The Serbs of Kosova will have their freedoms guarantied not by the goodwill of the Albanians but of their own status as rightful citizens of the new country. Isn’t our business to deny freedoms to anyone being this Serb or any other nationality.
As for Tibet and Taiwan your logic doesn’t add up. Two wrongs do not make a right. Tibet not being free doesn’t equalise to no-freedom for others.

"Everyone is so stuck up on UNSC not passing things...big deal. The world knows who has the final say, and the country that has the final say, will have it.....no matter what!

They did in 1999. Where was UNSC then? :)
(Funcakes, 1. September 2007 21:24)"

Yes, but at the end of the day, even this Yankee cowboy had to ask ask for a UNSC resolution. And to concede to Russian and Chinese demand for 1244 to acknowledge Yugoslavia's sovereignty over Kosovo. Your bullying cowboy is not all that powerful back in 1999, and even less so today!