Dutch FM: Kosovo partition acceptable

""The most important is that there is a solution that is supported by both parties, that is agreed to by the UN Security Council and that is workable," he added."

This is going to increasingly become the stance of the EU members. A compromise of some sort, accepted by both sides and legitimised within the UN.

Maarti can do the chat circuits all he likes, Agim can announce that they are simply waiting for the talks to end to declare independence, but the bottom line is that much of Europe as well as Russia want these negotiations to lead somewhere. It is in everyone's interest.

"If this principle (partition on ethnic lines) is applied to Kosovo, then it should be applied to south of Serbia as well"
(nikshala, 28. August 2007 12:01)

Is it so hard for you to understand one simple thing?Serbian police/army fully controles south of Serbia while Albanians don't have ANY controle over northern Kosovo!!!So,forget about Preshevo!

Nikshala - Nobody has forgotten about the churches and they would clearly have to be protected under any agreement.

As someone suggested on this site, Decani could become a special case and treated as some sort of mini Vatican style area.

Clearly this talk about partitioning is designed to expose Albanian separatist movements elsewhere hence revealing the real goal of Albanians, the one and only for many centuries, the goal to create greater Albania. A perfectly good excuse for EU to stop them in their tracks by denying them independence in Kosovo.

"If you get Northern Kosova you wont get a bunch of Vaticans in the south of Kosova. We wont have our country look like swiss cheese."

Nick,.....
there is no such thing like "kosova"..
it´s all serbian, don´t mix that up with your wishes!

by the way, it always was serbian, since the europeans are living in nation-states...so, please do not bore us again with the "illyrians"...

and last but not least:
it is not your country, that also...never was yours.

For once I will agree with serb camp.

EU are a bunch of hipocrits. They keep going on about multi-ethnicity but now are trying to partition Kosovo based on ethnic lines.

If this principle (partition on ethnic lines) is applied to Kosovo, then it should be applied to south of Serbia as well, and there is a chance that albanians in Macedonia will as for partition as well. And then so will R. Srpska.

The situation would get very dangerous and there would be potential for widespread conflict.

Parition will lead to creation of Great Albania, the very thing that serbs keep going on about.

As an albanian, and for albaians in general, partition would not be a bad thing at all, since it would correct the wrongs that were done towards albanians in the beginning of 20th century when most of albanian population was left outside Albania's borderds.

EU should think carefully before suggesting partition.

Also 60% K. serbs and 100% of churches are in the albanian part of Kosovo - i thought the objection of serbs towards partition was to do with these churches and K serbs?? maybe not, maybe the important thing for Serbia, is nationalistic pride (again!). at least this way they can look like they kept a part of Kosovo, even though for K serbs on the south this would be the worst solution.

Partition??? There is more reason to partition Bosnia & Hercegovina, Croatia, Crna Gora then there is to partition Serbia.

If partition is "agreed" upon, then the same should apply to the aforementioned former Yugoslav republics as well, plus interest. (WWII war reparations collected from Croatia, B&H & K&M Albanians for atrocities commited against their Serbian population.)

i you have in mind, that the netherlands (and denmark) are the most notorious "i will vote like great britain" states within the eu, then this is quite an important message and shows once more how isolated on this issue too uk+usa are.

on the other hand, netherlands have far more investments in serbia to protect then great britain, so it´s also a normal reaction!

Kosovo partition acceptable? NO! It's not acceptable. It means partition of Serbia. If that is acceptable, so is partition of Croatia and Bosnia.

"But the Albanians have make cristal clear that the partition is NOT going to be considered as an option from them.
"

Nobody cares (especially Serbs) what albanians have made cristal clear. Because you are in no position to be deciding what is going to happen with Serbia's land.

no need to divide anything at all.

Kosovo is 100 per cent serbian land, historically, culturally, and legally.

Albanians will learn to cope with that when the EU and other internationals tell them that there won´t be any childish illusions about an own state on serbian soil.

enough about partition, better think of improving your future within Serbia.

otherwise you´ll only lose.

signs are there, you only have to "read" them... without desperately and blindfoldedly believing american "promises"...

I don't understand the Albanian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Bosnian brothers and sisters who insist on their right to self-determination (which I wholeheartedly support), but somehow think its criminal for the Serbs to insist on the same rights. Just as you rightly have the right to secede and become dependencies of NATO, so too Serbs should have the right to opt out of the Euro-Atlantic alliances.

It is going to be clear. For EU and its Member States partition seems to be an option ONLY IF both sides agree upon.
But the Albanians have make cristal clear that the partition is NOT going to be considered as an option from them.
In fact if there will be discussed the partition of Kosova this would be the first move towards a dangerous bandwagon effect for the stability of the Balkans. And nobody in this stage could give any precise list of the consequences. At the end game, at a loger term Serbia itself wouldn't be so interested because this process would unleash ethnically-based unrest within Serbia by hungarians of Vojvodina.
Anyhow, the relax of Serbs when speaking for partition, even to this forum, it is a clear evidence that the Serbs are becoming coscient that they cannot hold Kosova hostage any longer.
But I'm confident that Kosova will be indipendent not partly but ENTIRELY.

PB,
when you mentioned Vatican, dont forget that Albanians have a very strong connection with it,
Mother Teresa was Albanian, I dont know if you know that or you are just too ignorant.
Beside, Former President of Kosovo Dr. Ibrahim Rugova was in Vatican as a special guest of John Paul II during the 1999 war.
We also (Albanians) have a very strong Catholic community in Kosovo and abroad.
Albanians also have a very close geographical proximity to Vatican.
Albanians are not what you (Serbs) portray them to be.
Stop listening to your Church that has done you no favors. That's why Serbia keeps shrinking.
The Albanians where a victim under your oppression.

Ya sure. Why don't you offer your land to your minorities - better now before they start terrorizing your people with terrorist attacks like albanians.

How about we start talking about partition of north eastern albania?

"What is serbia going to do with Vojvodina?
That is a million Dollar question.
Lets wait and see.
(lazer, 28. August 2007 16:13) "

Keep your nose out of Vojvodina. It's bad enough you're trying (key word trying) to steal KosovO.

Noel Malcolm UK - I have, thanks. And that suggestion has also come from others much better qualified than myself.

Nikshala: The serbs are already in a worse situation. My wifes aunt has to take a kfor convoy just to get to Serbia proper from Orhaovac area. How much of a worse solution can it get. And all these Albanians here say, if KosovO gets partitioned that Presovo should go as well. Well Kosovo is NOT yours to decide its fate and YOU guys can forget about Presovo.

Well one thing I don't understand is that did that guy from Netherlands thought about risk of EU country security when he mentioned partition because one thing everybody need to know for sure is if Kosova get separated in ethnical lines which I am pretty sure will not happen then Albanians in Balkans will not never agree with this and what’s that mean, it means that we will have to act as an nation under one flag and under one goal to united all Albanian territories that were taken away from Albania from all international conferences that were organized about Balkans faith so this movement will include Greece also which is an EU state so the guy from Netherlands didn't think about it at all. I hear somebody is mentioning the creation of Great Albania I will tell them they are wrong because we will not make great Albania but we will unite all the ethnical Albanian territories under one state which will be ethnic Albania. Another thing that I am hearing is that EU will never accept any country that is dominated by Muslims, well I tell you this during the ottoman empire while Serbs were making all the secret agreements with Turks on how to find the shorter path to invade Europe Albanians under Skanderbeg were fighting Turks to stop them from invading Europe and for more then 25 years they kept Turks out of Balkan peninsula and that’s why today Vatican can enjoy their existence. Another thing that I am forgetting to mention is that Europe will try to keep this partition deal only between Kosova and Serbia and I am pretty sure that they will not be able to do this because already in Macedonia and Montenegro and East Kosova (Presheva&Bujanovc&Medvegjë) and in Çameria (Greece) the Albanians are getting organized for taking action against any partition move so if somebody wants to start this game they are welcome we are ready.

God Bless Kosova, God Bless America, God Bless All Albanians in the world, Amen

"What is serbia going to do with Vojvodina?
That is a million Dollar question.
Lets wait and see.
(lazer, 28. August 2007 16:13) "

And the million dollar answer is that Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina!

One more thing, both Presovo and north Kosovo are effectively Serb-controlled, regardless of what Albanians may claim. Don't expect Belgrade to give these areas up!

Hungarians comprise 14.28% of Vojvodina in 2002 census. Unrest on the plains is pure fantasy. Next...

Lazer - come back down to planet earth. There is no significance in the fact that theresa or rugova had vatican connections. none whatsoever. The reality is that only a small minority of albanians are catholic, and would become a much smaler minoity again if/when Kosovo joins Albania. Why would the Vatican allow 4/5 million+ muslim into europe when it is so vehemently against Turkey's entry into europe. Wake up and smell the coffee. you're never going to be a part of europe as much as you may hope that to be the case.

"How about we start talking about partition of north eastern albania?"

Ok Ratko, you tell me where the Serbs and non-Albanians are there and I will not only agree with that but I will push with you so it becomes a reality. As I've said before; I only ask you to fill a stadium of 30'000 people with Serbs or non-Albanians from that region and if there are as many of them they can have their independence, or join whoever they like.
After all when we eliminate other Serbian clubs from the UEFA cup at least we need a stadium full of Serbs in the part you're suggesting.

Does any body remember that Milosevic saved Ibrahim Rugova from KLA thugs during the NATO bombing.

Partition Kosovo and if that results in a "Greater Albania", then so what. Big deal. I couldn't give a damn if Kosovo joined Albania. What's needed is a speedy resolution so that we can move forwards.

Besides, the Albanians will need every bit of help they can get, as i simply don't believe they will enter the EU (I also have doubts as to whether Serbia will be allowed to join). I don't care how far down the road towards EU accession they have travelled, the simple fact is that the VAtican will do all it can to prevent ANY muslim dominated state become a member of the EU.

PB if you want to get that low and dirty including religious discrimination, then how about the fact that Vatican as Christian Catholics dislike intensely Slavs as Orthodox Christian. You seem to have short memory span, just few years ago NATO as the biggest military alliance in the world made up from Christian nation bombed your beloved country until submission. Also as for Albanian Catholics, let me put in general, Albanian Christians since you are somehow trying to portray them as victims of imaginary Muslim repression they are strongest supporters of Albanians cause. In addition the most powerful Albanian lobbies in USA are usually headed by Albanian Christian and their influence was felt by your beloved country in 1999.

What exchange of teritories?You want to give teritory you don't controle and to get teritory you also don't controle at all?!?LOL,give me a break...you will not get anything!

If we go the AVENUE of PARTITION, which I doubt the EU will go with that, Serbia has much too lose that it has already lost.
Serbia has lost its credibility, if they want partition it will loose So. Serbia, therefore the border with Macedonia.
It means they will leave K-Serbs and M-Serbs without natural land connection to mother Serbia. I urge Serbian Leaders to consider this very seriously, if they are capable of doing that.
If this is going to take place, it is much better having Albanians of So. Serbia in Kosovo then No. Kosovo Serbs. That would be a great SWAP.
Hmmm, lets see what else?
What is serbia going to do with Vojvodina?
That is a million Dollar question.
Lets wait and see.

Partition is absolutely unacceptable. Any attempt to divide Kosova through artificially created ethnic lines post 1999 war would set a very dangerous precedent spreading the virus throughout the region particularly in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia etc.

Kate, no disrespect but I think you should visit Kosova and Decani in particular before you make such a ridiculous suggestion , the Manor I live is bigger than the Decani Monastery.

Noel (Malcolm),

So let me get this straight. It is ok with you to partition Kosovo from Serbia but it is not ok to partition it at the albanians expense. It just goes to show your complete bias and lack of logic. The very fact that you do not even know how to spell Kosovo tells everyone something. You actually had the gall to write a book on the subject, but the book is widely regarded as a rag by anyone who knows anything about Kosovo. Let me educate you a bit - Kosovo comes from the Serbian word kos, which means blackbird. The word kosova means nothing, in either albanian or serbian, so please use the universally accepted spelling of the word if you want to be accepted as a serious writer, for starters. If greater albania gets unilateral recognition from the americanns, partitioned or not, Republika Srpska will immediately declare independence from Bosnia. Mr. Putin will recognize it, and I realize you will not like it, but too bad, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You can´t have your cake and eat it too. It is high time there is some justice in the balkans, for 15 years now there has not been any.

Speaking of the fallout ...

In Macedonia, the Albanians fought for more representation in Macedonia (they are 25% of the population) and got it.
In Montenegro it was a similar story (w/o armed skirmishes that I'm aware of). There is no good reason for Albanians to want to go their own way from those two countries and no support for such movements by the mainstream Albanian political class anyway.

In B&H the Serbs not only run their own affairs but they also contribute to the whole country's agenda (as part of the whole federation concept).

Back to Kosovo ...

After a year of negotiations, Ahtisari, an outsider, was able to come up with a detailed plan on how he envisioned Kosovo to be run in the future.

In the mean time, Serbia, one of the two parties with the most to win/loose from this, has no idea what its alternative offering is for that region other than this cloudy "widest possible autonomy" concept that means little more than nothing.

In my book this country is either being run by the most clownish government known to the Balkans or it simply means to run Kosovo the same way it did under the region's previous "autonomous" period. One way or the other it is not doing any favors to the Kosovo Albanians.

I mentioned before the idea of a federation/confederation between Serbia and Kosovo. No "Greater Albania" as a result for the ones that keep on worrying about it. That one got poohed by the Serbs in this forum.

Now I know the old argument "but it's Serbian land" and I also know that Serbia proved to be a worse than lousy steward of that land and its people. So if partition is the best solution for KOSOVO, so be it. Elsewhere people can fight their own battles (hopefully with words and ideas and not guns like the Albos and the Serbs). I personally don't care what Moldavia does or Spain or Abkhazia or anyone else. Albanian interests come first for me and the Serbs should think the same way.

Ratko,

Kosova is not a Serbian land and period. You don't have army, police, institutions, or population there. What you have is some churches! You can leave them and visit them any time you want or you can carry them brick by brick back to Serbia. We will even help you if that's what will make you feel better.

And you who are somehow trying to portray Albanians as some fundamentalist muslims. Get real! Germany has more muslims than Kosova and Albania combined. Not to mention Serbia itself has over a million muslims. It just shows how some of you would treat people of different faiths. Just because some of you happened to be christians doesn't make you any better than Albanian muslims. In fact, your hate, you intolerance makes you just as equal to those Islamic
fundamentalist you are talking about.

Toni: If you want any type of independence, you better hope for Serbia to allow partition. Serbia will not walk away empty handed. N-Kosovo and it's wealth will remain in Serbia. As for the other countries with Albanian population that also want sepration, well their on their own. Meaning, after Kosovo the international community will wash their hands of the whole Albanian cause. Serbia took the biggest hit for this caure. Like they did when the Turks tried to take europe. One of the countries the Vatican should be thanking is Serbia. And the person that said that their manor is bigger than the Decani Monistary, you must live in a big apartment complex

Seven days away and I am back to the same old nothing. Nikshala tells us it is dangerous if Kosovo is partitioned but it is not dangerous if Serbia is partitioned.. Her logic a no to partition is a no when a no becomes a yes represents a self serving world view devoid of what the human family represents. . Laser my friend from New York is even more bizarre. He gloms onto Mother Teresa who questioned her faith and said that those who don’t love their neighbor are incapable of belief in God and yet laser wants us to feel humble because of Mother Teresa but he knows nothing about her doubts and her condemnation of his kind of thinking. . You know you all need to get on a ship that resembles the Balkans. The ship is piloted by Greeks, the cooks are French, the waiters are Turks, the cabin boys are from India, the Serbs are clerks in the shops, the Croats are cocktail waiters and we add to this some south Africans, a few Romanians, some Australians and one or two Canadians and English and you have a mini Balkans. The ship is owned by Americans who pay next to nothing. The workers work 18 to 20 hours seven days a week and sleep five hours a day. By partitioning you and having you fight with each other the reality is they exploit you. In the case of this ship the boss tells you what to do and if you have a free opinion he sends you back where you came from so welcome to the world of the global economy. Keep fighting the ship is waiting for you as well.

Laki - you need a reality check. i was stating what is absolutely obvious to everyone in Europe. Whether you like it or not, Muslim dominated countries will not be entering the EU. The Eu will just string you along, like it does with Turkey, but ultimately you won't be joining the EU. If you bothered to read my comment a little more closely, you'd have read that i don't think that Serbia will allowed to join either! Also, how do i portray Albanian Christians as being persecuted by the muslim Albanians - SHOW ME MY QUOTE WHICH SHOWS THIS.

You're trying to twist my comment into something completely different.

KS - "Whoever is pitching the idea of partition along ethnic lines must really not know much about Balkans. Ethnic lines are huge steps towards Greater Serbia/Albania/Bosnia/Croatia and anyone else. It's Balkan politics for one nation to accuse the next of Greater X."

So what is the partition of Kosovo from Serbia if not a partition along ethnic lines????

Unlike many serb and albanian commentators here, i think partition on ethnic lines is the obvious choice. If the albanians can't live within serbia with serbs then how can they claim to look after the sebrian minority ni Kosovo. it just won't happen, first chance they get they will expel them all. If Serbia can be partitioned along ethnic lines then so can Koovo. The real reason why the US is so against partition is that it wants access to Trepca mines - simple.

PB - Kosova has no desires to join with albanian (only 2.3% want to). Kosova wants to be in the EU as Republic of Kosova.

Why would you want Kosova to join with Albania? Why would you like Serbia to join EU when it can join mother russia and than the SCO?

Whoever is pitching the idea of partition along ethnic lines must really not know much about Balkans. Ethnic lines are huge steps towards Greater Serbia/Albania/Bosnia/Croatia and anyone else. It's Balkan politics for one nation to accuse the next of Greater X.

Kate,

If you get Northern Kosova you wont get a bunch of Vaticans in the south of Kosova. We wont have our country look like swiss cheese.

As i said earlier, if Kosova is separated the Serbs south of the ibar will have to get used to beeing Kosovar citizens with internationally guaranteed rights for them and their religious sites.

“If this principle (partition on ethnic lines) is applied to Kosovo, then …The situation would get very dangerous and there would be potential for widespread conflict. (nikshala, 28. August 2007 12:01)”

“In fact if there will be discussed the partition of Kosova this would be the first move towards a dangerous bandwagon effect for the stability of the Balkans. (shqiptar, 28. August 2007 13:11)”

“already in Macedonia and Montenegro and East Kosova (Presheva&Bujanovc&Medvegjë) and in Çameria (Greece) the Albanians are getting organized for taking action... (Toni, 28. August 2007 15:27)”

“Any attempt to divide Kosova through artificially created ethnic lines post 1999 war would set a very dangerous precedent spreading the virus throughout the region particularly in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia etc. (Noel, UK, 28. August 2007 17:56)”

“Ethnic lines are huge steps towards Greater Serbia/Albania/Bosnia/Croatia and anyone else. (KS, 28. August 2007 19:56) “

Change Kosova to Serbia and I swear I’m hearing Serbs talking, ha ha. Seriously though, if these dangers are to be the deciding factor in the status of Kosovo, clearly the safest solution would be to retain it within Serbia, so your arguments I find rather odd. In addition any agreed upon solution would increase security in the region and set a positive precedent, a much more desirable outcome than unilateral recognition outside of the UNSC that divides the EU. I have yet to hear a valid argument against partition.

That being said, the Right to Self Determination for all Serbs AND Albanians would be a net gain for both our peoples! Why not ask the international community since they claim all options are now on the table. That would certainly shake things up.

Ment, I think a confederation could have merit. It most certainly should be discussed.

“As i said earlier, if Kosova is separated the Serbs south of the ibar will have to get used to beeing Kosovar citizens with internationally guaranteed rights for them and their religious sites. (Nick, 28. August 2007 20:45)”

Nick, I think that would be a good starting point for discussions. I think then we could have the possibility to discuss swapping Trepca for Vatican level status for Pec and a few other important concessions. The Pec municipality borders with Serbia, so maybe an underground transit facility could be feasible with international economic assistance. Clearly that would be an excellent deal for the Albanian side. I might also support moving some historic buildings to the same region and make a little tourist area. That would most certainly benefit the local economy and be good for the Albanians.

Clearly neither side is ready to blink yet, and are trying to maneuver to get the best deal out of it.

The Dutch FM is right: the sides need to agree, and if partition is in the cards, then so be it. Mutual agreement is the most important element for a lasting peace, and partition was the one ingredient missing in Ahtissari's recipe.

It would be a mistake though to think that partition is THE solution and not part of the solution. A solution exclusively based on the bitterness of partition will not protect the Serb minority in the areas under Pristina and will only cement distrust and intolerance across the borders for years to come.

A lasting peace cannot truly exist without a multi-ethnic Kosovo, a goal of the UN and of the PISG. Nevertheless,
a solution must also involve partition since it gives the maximum protection to the greatest number of Serbs not under the direct control of Pristina. Both should be done together, but radicals on both sides just cannot even hint that they are capable of considering making any concessions.

Why is it not reasonable for Kosovo to continue on its road to multi-ethnicity while allowing the part of Kosovo which Pristina does not control to remain in Serbia?

Kosta,
No one is stopping the Serbs from "opting out" of the Euro-atlantic Alliances. In fact, it would please the Alliance greatly if Serbia dropped out.

I have daily contacts with KFOR,KPS AND UNMIK and for your information KFOR policy has been for very long time that they will not escort serb becasue there is a fredom of movemant. This has been in effect as of 2005, when it was decided in German military HQ not to do this anymore and if there is a need for any escort will b edone by KPS(KOSOVA POLICE SERVICES). The only escort that is ocurring still and this is just a political game is for some religious figures that are playing political games. Buses from Mitro coming to Deqani monastery and Peja Patriarch are in reality just escorted in name , but all it happens there is one police patrol staying in distance just for observation and nothing more. By the way this is done so as not to allow serbs to spread lies that the bus was attacked and police on patrol car are equioed with video recorders at all times to rebbuf such claims.

Partition is good idea. that would mean exchange of teritories (Part of Mitrovica for Preshevo, Medvexhe and Bujanovc) and of course, no more positive discrimination foreseen in Ahtisarijev plan. My god, thats so cool... I simply love it.

"Does any body remember that Milosevic saved Ibrahim Rugova from KLA thugs during the NATO bombing.
(Tiger, 28. August 2007 22:57)"

Yes by kidnapping his family, so Milosevic could shake his hand and smile in front of the Serbian National TV cameras.

The Italian government and the Vatican had to negotiate for months so that he and his family would be released from the Serbian government which.
Very similar to the negotiations the Western governments are engaging with terrorists holding hostages in Iraq.

PB,
when you mentioned Vatican, dont forget that Albanians have a very strong connection with it,
Mother Teresa was Albanian, I dont know if you know that or you are just too ignorant.
Beside, Former President of Kosovo Dr. Ibrahim Rugova was in Vatican as a special guest of John Paul II during the 1999 war.
We also (Albanians) have a very strong Catholic community in Kosovo and abroad.
Albanians also have a very close geographical proximity to Vatican.
Albanians are not what you (Serbs) portray them to be.
Stop listening to your Church that has done you no favors. That's why Serbia keeps shrinking.
The Albanians where a victim under your oppression.

Well one thing I don't understand is that did that guy from Netherlands thought about risk of EU country security when he mentioned partition because one thing everybody need to know for sure is if Kosova get separated in ethnical lines which I am pretty sure will not happen then Albanians in Balkans will not never agree with this and what’s that mean, it means that we will have to act as an nation under one flag and under one goal to united all Albanian territories that were taken away from Albania from all international conferences that were organized about Balkans faith so this movement will include Greece also which is an EU state so the guy from Netherlands didn't think about it at all. I hear somebody is mentioning the creation of Great Albania I will tell them they are wrong because we will not make great Albania but we will unite all the ethnical Albanian territories under one state which will be ethnic Albania. Another thing that I am hearing is that EU will never accept any country that is dominated by Muslims, well I tell you this during the ottoman empire while Serbs were making all the secret agreements with Turks on how to find the shorter path to invade Europe Albanians under Skanderbeg were fighting Turks to stop them from invading Europe and for more then 25 years they kept Turks out of Balkan peninsula and that’s why today Vatican can enjoy their existence. Another thing that I am forgetting to mention is that Europe will try to keep this partition deal only between Kosova and Serbia and I am pretty sure that they will not be able to do this because already in Macedonia and Montenegro and East Kosova (Presheva&Bujanovc&Medvegjë) and in Çameria (Greece) the Albanians are getting organized for taking action against any partition move so if somebody wants to start this game they are welcome we are ready.

God Bless Kosova, God Bless America, God Bless All Albanians in the world, Amen

For once I will agree with serb camp.

EU are a bunch of hipocrits. They keep going on about multi-ethnicity but now are trying to partition Kosovo based on ethnic lines.

If this principle (partition on ethnic lines) is applied to Kosovo, then it should be applied to south of Serbia as well, and there is a chance that albanians in Macedonia will as for partition as well. And then so will R. Srpska.

The situation would get very dangerous and there would be potential for widespread conflict.

Parition will lead to creation of Great Albania, the very thing that serbs keep going on about.

As an albanian, and for albaians in general, partition would not be a bad thing at all, since it would correct the wrongs that were done towards albanians in the beginning of 20th century when most of albanian population was left outside Albania's borderds.

EU should think carefully before suggesting partition.

Also 60% K. serbs and 100% of churches are in the albanian part of Kosovo - i thought the objection of serbs towards partition was to do with these churches and K serbs?? maybe not, maybe the important thing for Serbia, is nationalistic pride (again!). at least this way they can look like they kept a part of Kosovo, even though for K serbs on the south this would be the worst solution.

It is going to be clear. For EU and its Member States partition seems to be an option ONLY IF both sides agree upon.
But the Albanians have make cristal clear that the partition is NOT going to be considered as an option from them.
In fact if there will be discussed the partition of Kosova this would be the first move towards a dangerous bandwagon effect for the stability of the Balkans. And nobody in this stage could give any precise list of the consequences. At the end game, at a loger term Serbia itself wouldn't be so interested because this process would unleash ethnically-based unrest within Serbia by hungarians of Vojvodina.
Anyhow, the relax of Serbs when speaking for partition, even to this forum, it is a clear evidence that the Serbs are becoming coscient that they cannot hold Kosova hostage any longer.
But I'm confident that Kosova will be indipendent not partly but ENTIRELY.

"How about we start talking about partition of north eastern albania?"

Ok Ratko, you tell me where the Serbs and non-Albanians are there and I will not only agree with that but I will push with you so it becomes a reality. As I've said before; I only ask you to fill a stadium of 30'000 people with Serbs or non-Albanians from that region and if there are as many of them they can have their independence, or join whoever they like.
After all when we eliminate other Serbian clubs from the UEFA cup at least we need a stadium full of Serbs in the part you're suggesting.

Speaking of the fallout ...

In Macedonia, the Albanians fought for more representation in Macedonia (they are 25% of the population) and got it.
In Montenegro it was a similar story (w/o armed skirmishes that I'm aware of). There is no good reason for Albanians to want to go their own way from those two countries and no support for such movements by the mainstream Albanian political class anyway.

In B&H the Serbs not only run their own affairs but they also contribute to the whole country's agenda (as part of the whole federation concept).

Back to Kosovo ...

After a year of negotiations, Ahtisari, an outsider, was able to come up with a detailed plan on how he envisioned Kosovo to be run in the future.

In the mean time, Serbia, one of the two parties with the most to win/loose from this, has no idea what its alternative offering is for that region other than this cloudy "widest possible autonomy" concept that means little more than nothing.

In my book this country is either being run by the most clownish government known to the Balkans or it simply means to run Kosovo the same way it did under the region's previous "autonomous" period. One way or the other it is not doing any favors to the Kosovo Albanians.

I mentioned before the idea of a federation/confederation between Serbia and Kosovo. No "Greater Albania" as a result for the ones that keep on worrying about it. That one got poohed by the Serbs in this forum.

Now I know the old argument "but it's Serbian land" and I also know that Serbia proved to be a worse than lousy steward of that land and its people. So if partition is the best solution for KOSOVO, so be it. Elsewhere people can fight their own battles (hopefully with words and ideas and not guns like the Albos and the Serbs). I personally don't care what Moldavia does or Spain or Abkhazia or anyone else. Albanian interests come first for me and the Serbs should think the same way.

PB - Kosova has no desires to join with albanian (only 2.3% want to). Kosova wants to be in the EU as Republic of Kosova.

Why would you want Kosova to join with Albania? Why would you like Serbia to join EU when it can join mother russia and than the SCO?

Whoever is pitching the idea of partition along ethnic lines must really not know much about Balkans. Ethnic lines are huge steps towards Greater Serbia/Albania/Bosnia/Croatia and anyone else. It's Balkan politics for one nation to accuse the next of Greater X.

Kate,

If you get Northern Kosova you wont get a bunch of Vaticans in the south of Kosova. We wont have our country look like swiss cheese.

As i said earlier, if Kosova is separated the Serbs south of the ibar will have to get used to beeing Kosovar citizens with internationally guaranteed rights for them and their religious sites.

Ratko,

Kosova is not a Serbian land and period. You don't have army, police, institutions, or population there. What you have is some churches! You can leave them and visit them any time you want or you can carry them brick by brick back to Serbia. We will even help you if that's what will make you feel better.

And you who are somehow trying to portray Albanians as some fundamentalist muslims. Get real! Germany has more muslims than Kosova and Albania combined. Not to mention Serbia itself has over a million muslims. It just shows how some of you would treat people of different faiths. Just because some of you happened to be christians doesn't make you any better than Albanian muslims. In fact, your hate, you intolerance makes you just as equal to those Islamic
fundamentalist you are talking about.

If we go the AVENUE of PARTITION, which I doubt the EU will go with that, Serbia has much too lose that it has already lost.
Serbia has lost its credibility, if they want partition it will loose So. Serbia, therefore the border with Macedonia.
It means they will leave K-Serbs and M-Serbs without natural land connection to mother Serbia. I urge Serbian Leaders to consider this very seriously, if they are capable of doing that.
If this is going to take place, it is much better having Albanians of So. Serbia in Kosovo then No. Kosovo Serbs. That would be a great SWAP.
Hmmm, lets see what else?
What is serbia going to do with Vojvodina?
That is a million Dollar question.
Lets wait and see.

Partition is absolutely unacceptable. Any attempt to divide Kosova through artificially created ethnic lines post 1999 war would set a very dangerous precedent spreading the virus throughout the region particularly in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia etc.

Kate, no disrespect but I think you should visit Kosova and Decani in particular before you make such a ridiculous suggestion , the Manor I live is bigger than the Decani Monastery.

PB if you want to get that low and dirty including religious discrimination, then how about the fact that Vatican as Christian Catholics dislike intensely Slavs as Orthodox Christian. You seem to have short memory span, just few years ago NATO as the biggest military alliance in the world made up from Christian nation bombed your beloved country until submission. Also as for Albanian Catholics, let me put in general, Albanian Christians since you are somehow trying to portray them as victims of imaginary Muslim repression they are strongest supporters of Albanians cause. In addition the most powerful Albanian lobbies in USA are usually headed by Albanian Christian and their influence was felt by your beloved country in 1999.

"If you get Northern Kosova you wont get a bunch of Vaticans in the south of Kosova. We wont have our country look like swiss cheese."

Nick,.....
there is no such thing like "kosova"..
it´s all serbian, don´t mix that up with your wishes!

by the way, it always was serbian, since the europeans are living in nation-states...so, please do not bore us again with the "illyrians"...

and last but not least:
it is not your country, that also...never was yours.

""The most important is that there is a solution that is supported by both parties, that is agreed to by the UN Security Council and that is workable," he added."

This is going to increasingly become the stance of the EU members. A compromise of some sort, accepted by both sides and legitimised within the UN.

Maarti can do the chat circuits all he likes, Agim can announce that they are simply waiting for the talks to end to declare independence, but the bottom line is that much of Europe as well as Russia want these negotiations to lead somewhere. It is in everyone's interest.

"If this principle (partition on ethnic lines) is applied to Kosovo, then it should be applied to south of Serbia as well"
(nikshala, 28. August 2007 12:01)

Is it so hard for you to understand one simple thing?Serbian police/army fully controles south of Serbia while Albanians don't have ANY controle over northern Kosovo!!!So,forget about Preshevo!

Nikshala - Nobody has forgotten about the churches and they would clearly have to be protected under any agreement.

As someone suggested on this site, Decani could become a special case and treated as some sort of mini Vatican style area.

Clearly this talk about partitioning is designed to expose Albanian separatist movements elsewhere hence revealing the real goal of Albanians, the one and only for many centuries, the goal to create greater Albania. A perfectly good excuse for EU to stop them in their tracks by denying them independence in Kosovo.

Kosovo partition acceptable? NO! It's not acceptable. It means partition of Serbia. If that is acceptable, so is partition of Croatia and Bosnia.

Ya sure. Why don't you offer your land to your minorities - better now before they start terrorizing your people with terrorist attacks like albanians.

How about we start talking about partition of north eastern albania?

Hungarians comprise 14.28% of Vojvodina in 2002 census. Unrest on the plains is pure fantasy. Next...

Kosta,
No one is stopping the Serbs from "opting out" of the Euro-atlantic Alliances. In fact, it would please the Alliance greatly if Serbia dropped out.

Partition is good idea. that would mean exchange of teritories (Part of Mitrovica for Preshevo, Medvexhe and Bujanovc) and of course, no more positive discrimination foreseen in Ahtisarijev plan. My god, thats so cool... I simply love it.

Partition??? There is more reason to partition Bosnia & Hercegovina, Croatia, Crna Gora then there is to partition Serbia.

If partition is "agreed" upon, then the same should apply to the aforementioned former Yugoslav republics as well, plus interest. (WWII war reparations collected from Croatia, B&H & K&M Albanians for atrocities commited against their Serbian population.)

"But the Albanians have make cristal clear that the partition is NOT going to be considered as an option from them.
"

Nobody cares (especially Serbs) what albanians have made cristal clear. Because you are in no position to be deciding what is going to happen with Serbia's land.

Lazer - come back down to planet earth. There is no significance in the fact that theresa or rugova had vatican connections. none whatsoever. The reality is that only a small minority of albanians are catholic, and would become a much smaler minoity again if/when Kosovo joins Albania. Why would the Vatican allow 4/5 million+ muslim into europe when it is so vehemently against Turkey's entry into europe. Wake up and smell the coffee. you're never going to be a part of europe as much as you may hope that to be the case.

"What is serbia going to do with Vojvodina?
That is a million Dollar question.
Lets wait and see.
(lazer, 28. August 2007 16:13) "

And the million dollar answer is that Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina!

One more thing, both Presovo and north Kosovo are effectively Serb-controlled, regardless of what Albanians may claim. Don't expect Belgrade to give these areas up!

"What is serbia going to do with Vojvodina?
That is a million Dollar question.
Lets wait and see.
(lazer, 28. August 2007 16:13) "

Keep your nose out of Vojvodina. It's bad enough you're trying (key word trying) to steal KosovO.

no need to divide anything at all.

Kosovo is 100 per cent serbian land, historically, culturally, and legally.

Albanians will learn to cope with that when the EU and other internationals tell them that there won´t be any childish illusions about an own state on serbian soil.

enough about partition, better think of improving your future within Serbia.

otherwise you´ll only lose.

signs are there, you only have to "read" them... without desperately and blindfoldedly believing american "promises"...

I have daily contacts with KFOR,KPS AND UNMIK and for your information KFOR policy has been for very long time that they will not escort serb becasue there is a fredom of movemant. This has been in effect as of 2005, when it was decided in German military HQ not to do this anymore and if there is a need for any escort will b edone by KPS(KOSOVA POLICE SERVICES). The only escort that is ocurring still and this is just a political game is for some religious figures that are playing political games. Buses from Mitro coming to Deqani monastery and Peja Patriarch are in reality just escorted in name , but all it happens there is one police patrol staying in distance just for observation and nothing more. By the way this is done so as not to allow serbs to spread lies that the bus was attacked and police on patrol car are equioed with video recorders at all times to rebbuf such claims.

i you have in mind, that the netherlands (and denmark) are the most notorious "i will vote like great britain" states within the eu, then this is quite an important message and shows once more how isolated on this issue too uk+usa are.

on the other hand, netherlands have far more investments in serbia to protect then great britain, so it´s also a normal reaction!

Partition Kosovo and if that results in a "Greater Albania", then so what. Big deal. I couldn't give a damn if Kosovo joined Albania. What's needed is a speedy resolution so that we can move forwards.

Besides, the Albanians will need every bit of help they can get, as i simply don't believe they will enter the EU (I also have doubts as to whether Serbia will be allowed to join). I don't care how far down the road towards EU accession they have travelled, the simple fact is that the VAtican will do all it can to prevent ANY muslim dominated state become a member of the EU.

I don't understand the Albanian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Bosnian brothers and sisters who insist on their right to self-determination (which I wholeheartedly support), but somehow think its criminal for the Serbs to insist on the same rights. Just as you rightly have the right to secede and become dependencies of NATO, so too Serbs should have the right to opt out of the Euro-Atlantic alliances.

Noel Malcolm UK - I have, thanks. And that suggestion has also come from others much better qualified than myself.

Does any body remember that Milosevic saved Ibrahim Rugova from KLA thugs during the NATO bombing.

Nikshala: The serbs are already in a worse situation. My wifes aunt has to take a kfor convoy just to get to Serbia proper from Orhaovac area. How much of a worse solution can it get. And all these Albanians here say, if KosovO gets partitioned that Presovo should go as well. Well Kosovo is NOT yours to decide its fate and YOU guys can forget about Presovo.

Noel (Malcolm),

So let me get this straight. It is ok with you to partition Kosovo from Serbia but it is not ok to partition it at the albanians expense. It just goes to show your complete bias and lack of logic. The very fact that you do not even know how to spell Kosovo tells everyone something. You actually had the gall to write a book on the subject, but the book is widely regarded as a rag by anyone who knows anything about Kosovo. Let me educate you a bit - Kosovo comes from the Serbian word kos, which means blackbird. The word kosova means nothing, in either albanian or serbian, so please use the universally accepted spelling of the word if you want to be accepted as a serious writer, for starters. If greater albania gets unilateral recognition from the americanns, partitioned or not, Republika Srpska will immediately declare independence from Bosnia. Mr. Putin will recognize it, and I realize you will not like it, but too bad, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You can´t have your cake and eat it too. It is high time there is some justice in the balkans, for 15 years now there has not been any.

Toni: If you want any type of independence, you better hope for Serbia to allow partition. Serbia will not walk away empty handed. N-Kosovo and it's wealth will remain in Serbia. As for the other countries with Albanian population that also want sepration, well their on their own. Meaning, after Kosovo the international community will wash their hands of the whole Albanian cause. Serbia took the biggest hit for this caure. Like they did when the Turks tried to take europe. One of the countries the Vatican should be thanking is Serbia. And the person that said that their manor is bigger than the Decani Monistary, you must live in a big apartment complex

The Dutch FM is right: the sides need to agree, and if partition is in the cards, then so be it. Mutual agreement is the most important element for a lasting peace, and partition was the one ingredient missing in Ahtissari's recipe.

It would be a mistake though to think that partition is THE solution and not part of the solution. A solution exclusively based on the bitterness of partition will not protect the Serb minority in the areas under Pristina and will only cement distrust and intolerance across the borders for years to come.

A lasting peace cannot truly exist without a multi-ethnic Kosovo, a goal of the UN and of the PISG. Nevertheless,
a solution must also involve partition since it gives the maximum protection to the greatest number of Serbs not under the direct control of Pristina. Both should be done together, but radicals on both sides just cannot even hint that they are capable of considering making any concessions.

Why is it not reasonable for Kosovo to continue on its road to multi-ethnicity while allowing the part of Kosovo which Pristina does not control to remain in Serbia?

Seven days away and I am back to the same old nothing. Nikshala tells us it is dangerous if Kosovo is partitioned but it is not dangerous if Serbia is partitioned.. Her logic a no to partition is a no when a no becomes a yes represents a self serving world view devoid of what the human family represents. . Laser my friend from New York is even more bizarre. He gloms onto Mother Teresa who questioned her faith and said that those who don’t love their neighbor are incapable of belief in God and yet laser wants us to feel humble because of Mother Teresa but he knows nothing about her doubts and her condemnation of his kind of thinking. . You know you all need to get on a ship that resembles the Balkans. The ship is piloted by Greeks, the cooks are French, the waiters are Turks, the cabin boys are from India, the Serbs are clerks in the shops, the Croats are cocktail waiters and we add to this some south Africans, a few Romanians, some Australians and one or two Canadians and English and you have a mini Balkans. The ship is owned by Americans who pay next to nothing. The workers work 18 to 20 hours seven days a week and sleep five hours a day. By partitioning you and having you fight with each other the reality is they exploit you. In the case of this ship the boss tells you what to do and if you have a free opinion he sends you back where you came from so welcome to the world of the global economy. Keep fighting the ship is waiting for you as well.

“If this principle (partition on ethnic lines) is applied to Kosovo, then …The situation would get very dangerous and there would be potential for widespread conflict. (nikshala, 28. August 2007 12:01)”

“In fact if there will be discussed the partition of Kosova this would be the first move towards a dangerous bandwagon effect for the stability of the Balkans. (shqiptar, 28. August 2007 13:11)”

“already in Macedonia and Montenegro and East Kosova (Presheva&Bujanovc&Medvegjë) and in Çameria (Greece) the Albanians are getting organized for taking action... (Toni, 28. August 2007 15:27)”

“Any attempt to divide Kosova through artificially created ethnic lines post 1999 war would set a very dangerous precedent spreading the virus throughout the region particularly in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia etc. (Noel, UK, 28. August 2007 17:56)”

“Ethnic lines are huge steps towards Greater Serbia/Albania/Bosnia/Croatia and anyone else. (KS, 28. August 2007 19:56) “

Change Kosova to Serbia and I swear I’m hearing Serbs talking, ha ha. Seriously though, if these dangers are to be the deciding factor in the status of Kosovo, clearly the safest solution would be to retain it within Serbia, so your arguments I find rather odd. In addition any agreed upon solution would increase security in the region and set a positive precedent, a much more desirable outcome than unilateral recognition outside of the UNSC that divides the EU. I have yet to hear a valid argument against partition.

That being said, the Right to Self Determination for all Serbs AND Albanians would be a net gain for both our peoples! Why not ask the international community since they claim all options are now on the table. That would certainly shake things up.

Ment, I think a confederation could have merit. It most certainly should be discussed.

“As i said earlier, if Kosova is separated the Serbs south of the ibar will have to get used to beeing Kosovar citizens with internationally guaranteed rights for them and their religious sites. (Nick, 28. August 2007 20:45)”

Nick, I think that would be a good starting point for discussions. I think then we could have the possibility to discuss swapping Trepca for Vatican level status for Pec and a few other important concessions. The Pec municipality borders with Serbia, so maybe an underground transit facility could be feasible with international economic assistance. Clearly that would be an excellent deal for the Albanian side. I might also support moving some historic buildings to the same region and make a little tourist area. That would most certainly benefit the local economy and be good for the Albanians.

Clearly neither side is ready to blink yet, and are trying to maneuver to get the best deal out of it.

What exchange of teritories?You want to give teritory you don't controle and to get teritory you also don't controle at all?!?LOL,give me a break...you will not get anything!

Laki - you need a reality check. i was stating what is absolutely obvious to everyone in Europe. Whether you like it or not, Muslim dominated countries will not be entering the EU. The Eu will just string you along, like it does with Turkey, but ultimately you won't be joining the EU. If you bothered to read my comment a little more closely, you'd have read that i don't think that Serbia will allowed to join either! Also, how do i portray Albanian Christians as being persecuted by the muslim Albanians - SHOW ME MY QUOTE WHICH SHOWS THIS.

You're trying to twist my comment into something completely different.

KS - "Whoever is pitching the idea of partition along ethnic lines must really not know much about Balkans. Ethnic lines are huge steps towards Greater Serbia/Albania/Bosnia/Croatia and anyone else. It's Balkan politics for one nation to accuse the next of Greater X."

So what is the partition of Kosovo from Serbia if not a partition along ethnic lines????

Unlike many serb and albanian commentators here, i think partition on ethnic lines is the obvious choice. If the albanians can't live within serbia with serbs then how can they claim to look after the sebrian minority ni Kosovo. it just won't happen, first chance they get they will expel them all. If Serbia can be partitioned along ethnic lines then so can Koovo. The real reason why the US is so against partition is that it wants access to Trepca mines - simple.

"Does any body remember that Milosevic saved Ibrahim Rugova from KLA thugs during the NATO bombing.
(Tiger, 28. August 2007 22:57)"

Yes by kidnapping his family, so Milosevic could shake his hand and smile in front of the Serbian National TV cameras.

The Italian government and the Vatican had to negotiate for months so that he and his family would be released from the Serbian government which.
Very similar to the negotiations the Western governments are engaging with terrorists holding hostages in Iraq.