"Independence arguments dangerous"

Joe:

Is it a crime to retain or protect what is rightfully yours? I don't think so. It's like this; Serbian Albanian rose to arms against Serbia, not because of the regime or Milosevic, but because they wanted something that wasn't theirs yet it was promised to them by "someone" who didn't own it (Tito). The Serbs reacted as would any other country. If we want to talk about crimes against anyone, lets not begin with Milosevic. Let us begin with the crimes commited against the Serbs from 1941 to present day by the Serbian Albanians. Yes, Serbian Albanians if they consider themselves "Kosovars".

Kosovo & Metohija crys to those enslaving her: "why do you do this to me when I gave you refuge from your mother land. Why do you destroy my people, churches, history & graves? I will perish without thy children and my children shall too, without me."

If the Serbian Albanians dislike their current situation, then let them go back to Albania where they can be "subjugated" to their liking. Billy assisted the Croata to drive the Serbs out of Krajina? Billy had "peace in hands" though Serbs had more reason (1.2 million slaughted Serbs at the hands of the Croatian ustashi)to retain Krajina as there own, than the "Kosovars" have retaing a portion of Serbia. (Rest assured, the numbers are no where near being close to comparison They were still ethnically cleansed from their home land while the west looked the other way. Serbs don't want to inflict that upon anyone. They're not like that as history can testify on their behalf. Instead, they offer the highest degree of autonomy in the world to her inhabitant minority. More than what the US offers her illegal aliens.

Joe is just doing what most of the other pro-independence-supporters here constantly do:

being very zealous in accusing the Serbs of this and that, without even mentioning only one single argument, why they want independence in contradiction with international law and the prospect of ending up in the EU anyway...

there is only one reason why they want a socalled "independence"...greater Albania!

Joe, you can´t fool the others here...just as the others of your sort can´t do it either!

your eagerness in regard to writing here doesn´t pay off, since you have no arguments...

ps: thanks to the B92-guys who constantly prevent the readers to write comments as they are intended.

doing that shows the western-induced belief in a free media... or what ever you are calling that.

This ambassador can react as many times as he wants. He will not convince anybody except Serbian-Americans. Kosovo or Kosova is a unique case because of the horrible crimes committed by the Serbs and because of the - in the initial phase successful - ethnic cleansing of 1 million K-Albanians. Because of it Serbia forfeited her right to Serbia. This is the fact. And Kosovo can say "don't cry for me Serbia....I will be OK..I will prosper...I don't want to be subjugated by you ever again".

Johny, your missing the point. Try reading the entire comment.

It was the Albanians who came to Serbia during the post WWII years, not the other way around.

Cheers.

Ralphy-boy:
Rape and murder of Albanian women?? You are going to come back with irrefutable proof, right???

Just last week we have irrefutable proof of Albanians assulting and raping a young Serb couple. I have yet to see irrefutable proof that Albanians were harasses, abused, assulted, raped & murdered any less than the Serbs that they provoked into a fight.

"Danny",
Your view of events leading up to the 1999 bombing of Serbia certainly do not convince me or the members of NATO. On world wide TV, long lines of Albanian Kosovars being forced by Serb militia to walk toward the borders of Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania is an image civilized people will never forget. The murders and rapes of young Albanian girls and women by Serbian para-military, as well as the burning and looting of Albanian homes by their Serb neighbors is more than enough to cause Serbia to forfeit Kosovo.
In short, Serbia has lost its moral right to rule Kosovo!

"If the Serbian Albanians dislike their current situation, then let them go back to Albania where they can be "subjugated" to their liking."

I can follow your example and say something to the same effect. If the Serbs don't like their current situation or the way the west is treating them then let them go back to Iran where they can be "subjugated" to their own liking.

"On world wide TV, long lines of Albanian Kosovars being forced by Serb militia to walk toward the borders of Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania is an image civilized people will never forget."

I remember seeing lots of refugees entering Macedonia etc on TV, but not the "Serb Militia" doing so.

Jovan,
I have no single argument? Well my boy how many times did I give you the biggest one, the barbaric Serbian actions of 1999,what Ralph summerized it so well. I can also remind you on a daily basis about it you are really so forgetfull and have no recollection of it.

What really gets on my nerves is when western people say things like "On world wide TV, long lines of Albanian Kosovars being forced by Serb militia to walk toward the borders of Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania is an image civilized people will never forget."
but yet you peolpe have already forgotten the long lines of croatian serbs walking to bosnia, serbia etc.
where were these civilized people then, why have they forgotten.

So Ralph Timmons should croatia lose the moral right to govern krajina.
If your answer is NO like i would image your response would be.

Danny,

Your argument that Kosova Albanians left because of the NATO bombing is ridiculous.

I was in my town of Gjakova (Djakovica) at the time and we heard NATO planes above.
We weren’t scared of the NATO planes, we were EXTREMELY HAPPY.

Me and my family left because Serbian snipers started shooting my house to warn us to leave. The Snipers were on the rooftop of the old postal building in the center of the town.

I can scan and send you pictures of the house if you want.

When we decided to leave the house and walk to the border with Albania my father turned his head to look at the house for one last time, and that was the first and last time i saw my father cry.

I remember walking through the old Qarshija (shopping center) which was burned to the ground and i remember the Serb paramilitaries in their Gazikas taunting and provoking us.

I remember the expression in the face of my younger brother (10 yrs old at the time) who has a small birth defect in his leg and cant walk for long distances was made to walk for 30 miles through the mountains to the Albanian border.

I remember the policeman at the Bridge in the village of Berkoc who was taking our passports and ID's. He recognized my father and blushed immediately. He was so ashamed that he almost started crying. This policeman my father told me later had been a waiter in a hotel in Belgrade 15 years ago when my Father went there on business and they had become friends.

I remember my mother covered by a blanket waiting in an open field in the border for 2 nights in the freezing cold and the rain before the VJ decided to let us through the border.

We didn’t leave our house because of NATO bombing, we left our house because it was being shot to hell and we know we would soon have paramilitaries in our doorstep.

Have some respect.

To JOE -

You haven't a leg to stand on. If you were to narrow the chronological timeframe to within three months for example, the atrocities that were committed by the invaders supercedes the Serb's alleged atrocities of the 90s that you've posted. Furthermore, they were acts of WAR, the KosovO war, which may I remind you was provoked by the invaders.

War is ugly, but quite frankly, ever since Milosevic's death & prior to that, his arrest, there have been MANY Serbs dancing in the streets. Something your narrow minded comments fail to project.

Zivala Srbija!

Jovan
You wanted facts. "Ethnic clensing" "200 000 burned homes" "15 000 inocent civilians killed" (majority elderly, women, and children).
-Your facts? If remote medieval dreams of Great Serbia owning Kosova counts as facts than reality is a joke. I am sure that people who have dreams for facts and turn a blind eye on ethnic clensing (treat it like a dream) probably beleive that reality is a fat joke. What facts do you have?

Joe, Ralph; Too much CNN/BBC in your diet? The Serb authorities were responding to KLA provocations; read terrorism and murder of Serb police and civilians. Same tactics used in Macedonia, '01. Albanians do not fight "face to face".
To counter your imbalanced views, study "Yugoslavia" section, www.tenc.net (The Emporers New Clothes)

Ralph Timmons:

Yes we did see long lines of Albanian refugees during NATO bombing of civilian targets in that region. CNN was relentless in repeating the scenes. Did you really expect them (Serbian Albanians) to stay put while NATO bombs were being droped from 15,000 feet?? Need I remind you that NATO was responsible for charing that poor old Albanian man, donkey & carriage on their way to Macedonia (many probably forgot about that). So, no need to be convinced. Believe your stories if you like, far be it from me to convince you otherwise.

I will say that CNN did wonders for the Albanian Moslem cause. (AND, they thanked us for that not to long ago while EYEING Fort Dix).

CNN chose not to extensivly cover the 200 kilometer long Serb exodus from Croatia in early August 1995. Why??

OK.....so do the Croats & Bosnian Moslems forfeit Krajina & Republika Srpska for those very reasons (true in this case) or.......different rules, right?

Forfeit...WOW!!! That's pretty bold Raphly. The statement alone shows blatant racism or just plan old ignorance.

If the argument that Serbia somehow 'lost' the 'right' to Kosovo and Metohija was a valid one, Resolution 1244 would have different wording.

But, it hasn't. There is absolutely no legal basis whatsoever for Kosovo and Metohija to be ripped from Serbia.

Just as there is no legal basis for Albanians to have forfeited Albania despite the moral outrage of 50 years of abuse of its own people by the most atrocious Stalinist regime in Europe.

Nick,
I got emotional reading your story of fleeing Gjakova. There should be a movie about this tragic fleeing and shown in the whole world to remind people about it.

To Danny and Jovan
I will have to repeat again what i did the other day for someone else,
Despite the history before WWII and prehistorical meanings of the Kosovo/a Albanians i will give you the most lately reasons as to why Kosovo/ needs to be Independent.
Independence of Kosova is not a matter of flag, anthem or emblem. It is not a matter of Battle of Kosovo or Illyrian-Dardanian continuity, either. Neither is a matter of isolation from the others. In the 21st century, the independence of Kosova is a matter of management, security and of prospect.

Let us begin with management. This is a territory that after so many conflicts, that culminated with the attempted genocide against the Albanian majority, has reached a stage of maturity that requires it to be managed by its inhabitants. This has been called and K-Albanians and others, is called self-determination; but within the context here, let us name it simply in a business term, management. Of course, one can say that this can be corporative management; thus Kosova can be part of a bigger enterprise, of Serbia, for example, but the answer to this is simple. The big corporation, the socialist Yugoslavia has bankrupted and separate enterprises have derived from it. Some of them, e.g. Slovenia and Croatia, with extraordinary success, while some others, e.g. Bosnia and Herzegovina, still deficient. Serbia is a small corporation on the verge of bankruptcy, and as such not attractive to anyone, not even its constitutive enterprises.

But, there is one other successful corporation, the EU. However, a prerequisite for an enterprise to become a part of this corporation is to be healthy, on the one hand, and to have solved all legal- ownership-issues. Kosova, as a European territory, is interested in becoming a part of the EU, but in order to reach that goal, it has to define its “legal-ownership issues”, first. This simply means that the definition of Kosova/o’s status as an independent state should be perceived as a priority for the possibility of adherence into EU. So, Kosovo/a is becoming independent though not to be isolated by other European nations and states, but in order to join the other European nations and states, including the Serb in the future.

2.

In the 21st century, the experience of the 20th century was understood, and this is experience is that source of insecurity, both on the global and local level, are countries that have failed. Two examples are sufficient: former Yugoslavia, whose failure became a source of the biggest insecurity on the European continent after the World War II, and Afghanistan, which as a failed country had become a training heaven for international terrorism.

Vice versa, functional states represent the source of regional and global security. The only way how Kosovo can guarantee security for its citizens, and at the same be a guarantee for regional security, is through its own functional state. Kosovo in no way can be part of a Serbian state. This has been proven by all means, including even extreme violence, and it has been proven as a failed project, even to the extent that Serbia cannot still become a functional state.

3.

Finally, it is a matter of prospect. In any segment of life, there is a need for fundamentals upon which the future is to be built.

In economy, for example, it has been proven that the can be no economic development without property being defined. Accordingly, in the overall development of Kosova, there can be forward steps unless the character of the state is defined. As long as there’s duality as far as the nature of state, there will be dual interpretation of its legal order, and duality on the fundamental issues, such as the assurance of the economic investments. We have seen this in Kosova during the almost eight years with UNMIK, where the lack of defined power, and the resulting duality, have in fact brought enormous stagnation in the development of institutions, democracy and economy.. When it is unclear who is responsible in government, the whole chain of responsibility is lost, thus the nature of democracy and the power of the vote of sovereign, the citizen.

Therefore, Kosovo should become independent in order to build a democratic future of a responsible government and a future of economic development.

4.

I am aware that in Serbia (with Russia), which in fact is the only country opposing Kosovo’s independence, there is a completely different approach, and that other entirely different argument are in play. I know that would bring about voices telling us: ”How would you protect Kosovo Serbs with these three principles?”
The answer is very simple: So far, all models that exclude the majority population taking full responsibilities have been used. The result for the Serbs was catastrophic; Milosevic made of them colonial administrators, and this put Kosova Serbs into a specific historical position to be regarded as a fifth colon in their country, new Kosova.

Let us try a model that prevailed in the united Europe, that of the majority population taking responsibility, in a democratic and functional state.
Thank you
I hope this would explain a lot to you without trying to bring the ancient history, but the current events of this century.

Joe,

I am sure some wont believe me, how can they possibly believe me when most are living in England, Canada or America and dont even know what i'm talking about. They have no idea how violent all people living in the Ballkans can be.
I know Kosova will be independent because all that suffering was not for nothing.

We wont allow it to be for nothing.

Yes, Serbian Albanians if they consider themselves "Kosovars".

Wow B92 you're going to let racism like that pass through?

Independence of Kosova doesn't realize any 'greater albanian' scheme. That long highway does, no visas to pass borders, etc. All Kosovars know, unifying Kosova+Albania would mean the capital be Tirana, and we can't deal with that, too localist.

It seems that a serb-camp biggest fear is a strong Kosova---I'm loving this.


Also if you don't believe in 1998-1999 than there is something wrong with...

Danny you seem to intentionally not get the point. If we were to talk about who came where and looked through history, then Serbs should not be in Europe and in the Balkans in the first place.
Telling people to move here or move there if they don't like it. Then by the same token the Serbs should move out of Europe if they don't like it. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it. Well that is what you were arguing.

Danny said:"Did you really expect them (Serbian Albanians) to stay put while NATO bombs were being droped from 15,000 feet??"

Open your mind and think for yourself. How come only Albanians where leaving from NATO bombs. Were Albanians scared and fled while the Serbs of Kosova/o were not scared at all and heroically challenged the NATO bombs by staying in Kosova/o? Did NATO invent a bomb that ethnically targeted people, so it targeted the Albanians causing them to leave but it didn't target the Serbs in Kosova/o so they stayed?
If I am not mistaken, and I know I am not, Belgrade was bombed too by NATO bombs. I forgot the Serbs are brave and NATO bombs don't scare them. They don't flee from NATO bombs, only Albanians do.

This ambassador can react as many times as he wants. He will not convince anybody except Serbian-Americans. Kosovo or Kosova is a unique case because of the horrible crimes committed by the Serbs and because of the - in the initial phase successful - ethnic cleansing of 1 million K-Albanians. Because of it Serbia forfeited her right to Serbia. This is the fact. And Kosovo can say "don't cry for me Serbia....I will be OK..I will prosper...I don't want to be subjugated by you ever again".

Jovan,
I have no single argument? Well my boy how many times did I give you the biggest one, the barbaric Serbian actions of 1999,what Ralph summerized it so well. I can also remind you on a daily basis about it you are really so forgetfull and have no recollection of it.

"If the Serbian Albanians dislike their current situation, then let them go back to Albania where they can be "subjugated" to their liking."

I can follow your example and say something to the same effect. If the Serbs don't like their current situation or the way the west is treating them then let them go back to Iran where they can be "subjugated" to their own liking.

"Danny",
Your view of events leading up to the 1999 bombing of Serbia certainly do not convince me or the members of NATO. On world wide TV, long lines of Albanian Kosovars being forced by Serb militia to walk toward the borders of Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania is an image civilized people will never forget. The murders and rapes of young Albanian girls and women by Serbian para-military, as well as the burning and looting of Albanian homes by their Serb neighbors is more than enough to cause Serbia to forfeit Kosovo.
In short, Serbia has lost its moral right to rule Kosovo!

Joe:

Is it a crime to retain or protect what is rightfully yours? I don't think so. It's like this; Serbian Albanian rose to arms against Serbia, not because of the regime or Milosevic, but because they wanted something that wasn't theirs yet it was promised to them by "someone" who didn't own it (Tito). The Serbs reacted as would any other country. If we want to talk about crimes against anyone, lets not begin with Milosevic. Let us begin with the crimes commited against the Serbs from 1941 to present day by the Serbian Albanians. Yes, Serbian Albanians if they consider themselves "Kosovars".

Kosovo & Metohija crys to those enslaving her: "why do you do this to me when I gave you refuge from your mother land. Why do you destroy my people, churches, history & graves? I will perish without thy children and my children shall too, without me."

If the Serbian Albanians dislike their current situation, then let them go back to Albania where they can be "subjugated" to their liking. Billy assisted the Croata to drive the Serbs out of Krajina? Billy had "peace in hands" though Serbs had more reason (1.2 million slaughted Serbs at the hands of the Croatian ustashi)to retain Krajina as there own, than the "Kosovars" have retaing a portion of Serbia. (Rest assured, the numbers are no where near being close to comparison They were still ethnically cleansed from their home land while the west looked the other way. Serbs don't want to inflict that upon anyone. They're not like that as history can testify on their behalf. Instead, they offer the highest degree of autonomy in the world to her inhabitant minority. More than what the US offers her illegal aliens.

To Danny and Jovan
I will have to repeat again what i did the other day for someone else,
Despite the history before WWII and prehistorical meanings of the Kosovo/a Albanians i will give you the most lately reasons as to why Kosovo/ needs to be Independent.
Independence of Kosova is not a matter of flag, anthem or emblem. It is not a matter of Battle of Kosovo or Illyrian-Dardanian continuity, either. Neither is a matter of isolation from the others. In the 21st century, the independence of Kosova is a matter of management, security and of prospect.

Let us begin with management. This is a territory that after so many conflicts, that culminated with the attempted genocide against the Albanian majority, has reached a stage of maturity that requires it to be managed by its inhabitants. This has been called and K-Albanians and others, is called self-determination; but within the context here, let us name it simply in a business term, management. Of course, one can say that this can be corporative management; thus Kosova can be part of a bigger enterprise, of Serbia, for example, but the answer to this is simple. The big corporation, the socialist Yugoslavia has bankrupted and separate enterprises have derived from it. Some of them, e.g. Slovenia and Croatia, with extraordinary success, while some others, e.g. Bosnia and Herzegovina, still deficient. Serbia is a small corporation on the verge of bankruptcy, and as such not attractive to anyone, not even its constitutive enterprises.

But, there is one other successful corporation, the EU. However, a prerequisite for an enterprise to become a part of this corporation is to be healthy, on the one hand, and to have solved all legal- ownership-issues. Kosova, as a European territory, is interested in becoming a part of the EU, but in order to reach that goal, it has to define its “legal-ownership issues”, first. This simply means that the definition of Kosova/o’s status as an independent state should be perceived as a priority for the possibility of adherence into EU. So, Kosovo/a is becoming independent though not to be isolated by other European nations and states, but in order to join the other European nations and states, including the Serb in the future.

2.

In the 21st century, the experience of the 20th century was understood, and this is experience is that source of insecurity, both on the global and local level, are countries that have failed. Two examples are sufficient: former Yugoslavia, whose failure became a source of the biggest insecurity on the European continent after the World War II, and Afghanistan, which as a failed country had become a training heaven for international terrorism.

Vice versa, functional states represent the source of regional and global security. The only way how Kosovo can guarantee security for its citizens, and at the same be a guarantee for regional security, is through its own functional state. Kosovo in no way can be part of a Serbian state. This has been proven by all means, including even extreme violence, and it has been proven as a failed project, even to the extent that Serbia cannot still become a functional state.

3.

Finally, it is a matter of prospect. In any segment of life, there is a need for fundamentals upon which the future is to be built.

In economy, for example, it has been proven that the can be no economic development without property being defined. Accordingly, in the overall development of Kosova, there can be forward steps unless the character of the state is defined. As long as there’s duality as far as the nature of state, there will be dual interpretation of its legal order, and duality on the fundamental issues, such as the assurance of the economic investments. We have seen this in Kosova during the almost eight years with UNMIK, where the lack of defined power, and the resulting duality, have in fact brought enormous stagnation in the development of institutions, democracy and economy.. When it is unclear who is responsible in government, the whole chain of responsibility is lost, thus the nature of democracy and the power of the vote of sovereign, the citizen.

Therefore, Kosovo should become independent in order to build a democratic future of a responsible government and a future of economic development.

4.

I am aware that in Serbia (with Russia), which in fact is the only country opposing Kosovo’s independence, there is a completely different approach, and that other entirely different argument are in play. I know that would bring about voices telling us: ”How would you protect Kosovo Serbs with these three principles?”
The answer is very simple: So far, all models that exclude the majority population taking full responsibilities have been used. The result for the Serbs was catastrophic; Milosevic made of them colonial administrators, and this put Kosova Serbs into a specific historical position to be regarded as a fifth colon in their country, new Kosova.

Let us try a model that prevailed in the united Europe, that of the majority population taking responsibility, in a democratic and functional state.
Thank you
I hope this would explain a lot to you without trying to bring the ancient history, but the current events of this century.

Jovan
You wanted facts. "Ethnic clensing" "200 000 burned homes" "15 000 inocent civilians killed" (majority elderly, women, and children).
-Your facts? If remote medieval dreams of Great Serbia owning Kosova counts as facts than reality is a joke. I am sure that people who have dreams for facts and turn a blind eye on ethnic clensing (treat it like a dream) probably beleive that reality is a fat joke. What facts do you have?

Nick,
I got emotional reading your story of fleeing Gjakova. There should be a movie about this tragic fleeing and shown in the whole world to remind people about it.

Yes, Serbian Albanians if they consider themselves "Kosovars".

Wow B92 you're going to let racism like that pass through?

Independence of Kosova doesn't realize any 'greater albanian' scheme. That long highway does, no visas to pass borders, etc. All Kosovars know, unifying Kosova+Albania would mean the capital be Tirana, and we can't deal with that, too localist.

It seems that a serb-camp biggest fear is a strong Kosova---I'm loving this.


Also if you don't believe in 1998-1999 than there is something wrong with...

Danny,

Your argument that Kosova Albanians left because of the NATO bombing is ridiculous.

I was in my town of Gjakova (Djakovica) at the time and we heard NATO planes above.
We weren’t scared of the NATO planes, we were EXTREMELY HAPPY.

Me and my family left because Serbian snipers started shooting my house to warn us to leave. The Snipers were on the rooftop of the old postal building in the center of the town.

I can scan and send you pictures of the house if you want.

When we decided to leave the house and walk to the border with Albania my father turned his head to look at the house for one last time, and that was the first and last time i saw my father cry.

I remember walking through the old Qarshija (shopping center) which was burned to the ground and i remember the Serb paramilitaries in their Gazikas taunting and provoking us.

I remember the expression in the face of my younger brother (10 yrs old at the time) who has a small birth defect in his leg and cant walk for long distances was made to walk for 30 miles through the mountains to the Albanian border.

I remember the policeman at the Bridge in the village of Berkoc who was taking our passports and ID's. He recognized my father and blushed immediately. He was so ashamed that he almost started crying. This policeman my father told me later had been a waiter in a hotel in Belgrade 15 years ago when my Father went there on business and they had become friends.

I remember my mother covered by a blanket waiting in an open field in the border for 2 nights in the freezing cold and the rain before the VJ decided to let us through the border.

We didn’t leave our house because of NATO bombing, we left our house because it was being shot to hell and we know we would soon have paramilitaries in our doorstep.

Have some respect.

Joe,

I am sure some wont believe me, how can they possibly believe me when most are living in England, Canada or America and dont even know what i'm talking about. They have no idea how violent all people living in the Ballkans can be.
I know Kosova will be independent because all that suffering was not for nothing.

We wont allow it to be for nothing.

Joe is just doing what most of the other pro-independence-supporters here constantly do:

being very zealous in accusing the Serbs of this and that, without even mentioning only one single argument, why they want independence in contradiction with international law and the prospect of ending up in the EU anyway...

there is only one reason why they want a socalled "independence"...greater Albania!

Joe, you can´t fool the others here...just as the others of your sort can´t do it either!

your eagerness in regard to writing here doesn´t pay off, since you have no arguments...

ps: thanks to the B92-guys who constantly prevent the readers to write comments as they are intended.

doing that shows the western-induced belief in a free media... or what ever you are calling that.

Johny, your missing the point. Try reading the entire comment.

It was the Albanians who came to Serbia during the post WWII years, not the other way around.

Cheers.

"On world wide TV, long lines of Albanian Kosovars being forced by Serb militia to walk toward the borders of Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania is an image civilized people will never forget."

I remember seeing lots of refugees entering Macedonia etc on TV, but not the "Serb Militia" doing so.

Ralphy-boy:
Rape and murder of Albanian women?? You are going to come back with irrefutable proof, right???

Just last week we have irrefutable proof of Albanians assulting and raping a young Serb couple. I have yet to see irrefutable proof that Albanians were harasses, abused, assulted, raped & murdered any less than the Serbs that they provoked into a fight.

To JOE -

You haven't a leg to stand on. If you were to narrow the chronological timeframe to within three months for example, the atrocities that were committed by the invaders supercedes the Serb's alleged atrocities of the 90s that you've posted. Furthermore, they were acts of WAR, the KosovO war, which may I remind you was provoked by the invaders.

War is ugly, but quite frankly, ever since Milosevic's death & prior to that, his arrest, there have been MANY Serbs dancing in the streets. Something your narrow minded comments fail to project.

Zivala Srbija!

What really gets on my nerves is when western people say things like "On world wide TV, long lines of Albanian Kosovars being forced by Serb militia to walk toward the borders of Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania is an image civilized people will never forget."
but yet you peolpe have already forgotten the long lines of croatian serbs walking to bosnia, serbia etc.
where were these civilized people then, why have they forgotten.

So Ralph Timmons should croatia lose the moral right to govern krajina.
If your answer is NO like i would image your response would be.

Joe, Ralph; Too much CNN/BBC in your diet? The Serb authorities were responding to KLA provocations; read terrorism and murder of Serb police and civilians. Same tactics used in Macedonia, '01. Albanians do not fight "face to face".
To counter your imbalanced views, study "Yugoslavia" section, www.tenc.net (The Emporers New Clothes)

Ralph Timmons:

Yes we did see long lines of Albanian refugees during NATO bombing of civilian targets in that region. CNN was relentless in repeating the scenes. Did you really expect them (Serbian Albanians) to stay put while NATO bombs were being droped from 15,000 feet?? Need I remind you that NATO was responsible for charing that poor old Albanian man, donkey & carriage on their way to Macedonia (many probably forgot about that). So, no need to be convinced. Believe your stories if you like, far be it from me to convince you otherwise.

I will say that CNN did wonders for the Albanian Moslem cause. (AND, they thanked us for that not to long ago while EYEING Fort Dix).

CNN chose not to extensivly cover the 200 kilometer long Serb exodus from Croatia in early August 1995. Why??

OK.....so do the Croats & Bosnian Moslems forfeit Krajina & Republika Srpska for those very reasons (true in this case) or.......different rules, right?

Forfeit...WOW!!! That's pretty bold Raphly. The statement alone shows blatant racism or just plan old ignorance.

If the argument that Serbia somehow 'lost' the 'right' to Kosovo and Metohija was a valid one, Resolution 1244 would have different wording.

But, it hasn't. There is absolutely no legal basis whatsoever for Kosovo and Metohija to be ripped from Serbia.

Just as there is no legal basis for Albanians to have forfeited Albania despite the moral outrage of 50 years of abuse of its own people by the most atrocious Stalinist regime in Europe.

Danny you seem to intentionally not get the point. If we were to talk about who came where and looked through history, then Serbs should not be in Europe and in the Balkans in the first place.
Telling people to move here or move there if they don't like it. Then by the same token the Serbs should move out of Europe if they don't like it. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it. Well that is what you were arguing.

Danny said:"Did you really expect them (Serbian Albanians) to stay put while NATO bombs were being droped from 15,000 feet??"

Open your mind and think for yourself. How come only Albanians where leaving from NATO bombs. Were Albanians scared and fled while the Serbs of Kosova/o were not scared at all and heroically challenged the NATO bombs by staying in Kosova/o? Did NATO invent a bomb that ethnically targeted people, so it targeted the Albanians causing them to leave but it didn't target the Serbs in Kosova/o so they stayed?
If I am not mistaken, and I know I am not, Belgrade was bombed too by NATO bombs. I forgot the Serbs are brave and NATO bombs don't scare them. They don't flee from NATO bombs, only Albanians do.