Ceku, Ischinger meet in Priština

Ahtisari’s plan itself was a big compromise for Albanians while in meantime Serb Delegation sat on the side and just laughed about it,
Now when thing have turned to its end they woke up and try to obstruct/sabotage the process.
You can’t ask for more compromise from Albanian side they did more than enough by accepting the Ahtisari’s plan with all it’ difficulties to implement. In contrary it’s the Serb government that should be pressed on to accept the deal if they really care for the K-Serbs and holy sites throughout Kosovo. But unfortunately for K-Serbs they will be used as in many other Ex-YU countries, and left behind with nothing but in this case Albanians will prove the opposite of that by providing and assisting them to overcome the trauma left by Serbian government once the status is settled. And please the Pro-posters please spear us of the propaganda that Albanians will kill and burn that’s a myth now. You all know that is all connected to the situation created by Serbian government who was and is fueling by serving illusion to K-Serbs that they do live in Serbia.
Just be realistic and honest you will find yourselves proven wrong on almost everything.
Will continue on this issue later.
Thank you

I notice that even the prefix 'Kosovan' let alone just saying 'Kosovans' has been dropped by many pro independence posters. Albania is another country in its own right and the more that it is seen as Albanians wanting Serbian territory as an Albanian state, the less likely it is for countries in the EU and the UN to support forced separation from Serbia.

It is clear that there is still hope for a Greater Albania where people fly the Albanian flag - any new flag for 'Kosovo' would be sidelined.

This is not about true independence but a state based purely on the national identity of another country.

it is interesting to notice how human brains work! I mean we are all reading the same text, and the comments I read here are so opposite, like Kate's opinion is always flavoured with some milosevic propaganda, Greater Albania, what a laugh... Kate get over it Greater Serbia aint happening, and greater Albania aint happening neither even though you are the one going on and on about it ... EU supports the Ahtisari plan, and we are preparing for it to start being implemented after 10 December ... I mean we can maybe send you an invitation to come and celebrate Independence day in March or April in the center of our capital ... the center will be ready by than ... we have started to give it a facelift, as it needs it from the scarrs your army and your Regime left behind

Lowe& Kate - EU supports Ahtisari package not any Greater Albania. Kosova Institutions are preparing to implement the Ahtisari plan after the Independence.
Ahtisari plan was sort of a comptomise that Kosovars had to accept after being pressured by International Community.Now, I think that Serbs are to compromise and accept the Ahtisati package.

After this postponement I think that the populations of Serbia is really prepared to see Kosova gone its own way. There is no better alternative. Serbia has lost it right to govern Kosova long time ago

Johny and Minnie
I know this much. Resolution 1244 will never allow Kosovo to succesfully seperate without the EU backing. For which it might not matter to you, but to everyone in Kosovo it does. So Slovenia, slovakia, greece, spain etc. are very important countries to your independence. Without full EU backing there wont be one at all. So get it streight, both of you, that the reallity is, there will never be independence. NEVER. I got to hurry up and get to school now that I have show the "wise" albans why they cant have something that is not theirs.
CCCC

Ahtisari Plan will remain the A point of the agenda of the talks.
This would be be biggest compromise from the Albanian side.
Sure, PM Ceku has made this point, what in fact is what West is considered as a realist solution.

120 days, 150 days, ....etc. However, the Helsinki Final Act, the UN SC Res 1244 and the Contact Group Guiding Principles prohibit any division and any independence of Kosovo without Serbia's concent. Why many leaders forget this?

Albanians have compromised already by accepting no unification with Albania.

"Delays do not make difficult decisions easier, they still have to be made, and we are asking the EU to remain united on the Ahtisaari proposal and recognize independence after 120 days," Ceku said.

Get it streight, BOTH RUSSIA and SERBIA know EU will never agree to support unilateral independence of Kosovo. This guy is representing US BRITS GERMANS AND FRENCH. Thats it. You can say thats all you need but that is most certainly not the EU. So after these 120 days you may choose your path. EU through autonomy and no borders with a constantly improving economy, or economic devestation for a long, long time. Longer then any of us will live to see. So Ceku for them to remain united they have to have been united in the first place. No unilateral independence.

Mr. Benny, could you please explain in what sense is Ahtisaari plan a compromise for the Albanians? To us it looks like you are promised everything that matters and we are supposed to get a few crumbs. What else would you like to get that is not already in that plan?

So much for EU prefering "broad autonomy".

Someone here from Serb camp said that he would be happy to let EU decide on the issue. Would you still want to do that?

Also someone else said that US is the only obsticle to "fair and balanced negotiations".

I guess there you have it. EU stance pro independence. But as usual the serb camp will go on to looking for the needle in the hay. Well keep on looking while Kosovo flies towards its freedom.

"Delays do not make difficult decisions easier, they still have to be made, and we are asking the EU to remain united on the Ahtisaari proposal and recognize independence after 120 days," Ceku said."

in which case there is then no need for Pristina to truly negotiate. They just need to play pretend for 120 days. Unfortunately for them, they will not be able to fool Moscow and Belgrade.

What if no one changes the position on Kosovo status and after December 10th troika report no progress and countries in SC keep their stand?
Who will explain to Albanian people that they must to integrate in Serbian mother country or to remain to be UN administrated Serbian province for a long , long time!
Why will that be more unreal then other alternative?

Money for nothing,
Mother to you maybe but for us she has been a spiteful step-mother.

Sorry Ischinger but your countrie's gas is coming from Russia and not britain or us. He better listen up before he gets Mr. Putin upset!!!

Cvele,
You seem to be a spunky nice young boy by the way you write. You obviously are not old enough to have read enough about Balkan history or had much if any travel
experience to Kosovo.

You should, pherhaps, wait awhile till you get a little older before voicing your "opinion" on the status of Kosovo. As you probably can summize, this is a complicated topic even for the adults on this forum. I realize that you have a lot of time on your hands before school starts, but if you wish to participate on B92 you should do some research on the Balkans so you can have a more informed point of view.

Good luck in your studies.

Cvele, the US, Brits, French and Germans are enough for us. Once those one unilaterally recognize Kosova/o; it doesn't matter whether Slovakia agrees or not. It doesn't matter whether Serbia agrees or not. It doesn't matter whether Russia agrees or not. The reason is simple, Albanians do not want to be under the influence of any of those countries. It is better to be independent and recognized by just those major powers than be autonomous under Serbia and recognized as such by the whole world. Once you get this , then you're ready to move on.

According to the statement, Ceku conveyed to Ischinger important points related to the development of Kosovo and added that, his vision is that Kosovo should become an independent, sovereign, democratic, multiethnic, secular and functional state

Where does Ceku live & what is his nationality? Also, does this mean Ceku will move to KosovO? Every pro-albanian commentator is ready to thrash anyone they THINK doesn't reside, visit or have an understanding of KosovO.

How could you actually state anything when your "leader" is ethnically albanian & resides 80% if not more of his life in Croatia?

Who cares what he has to say anywhere? He's got the white flag of surrender in his back pocket ready to be pulled out so that it can flap in the wind. This is just a political game to make it appear as if he's something he's not.

Guys I am not sure what part you don't understand that Kosova is a done deal.
Have a look on the ICG recomandation to the relevant interantional institutions ("What needs to be done")

http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=3225&l=1

Reading many Serb posters here for a while, its something that you note. For Kosovo/a now the only line that they are following not to let it go, it is just judicial one, which means the UN resolution, the international law, treaties, etc, etc. This is the only instrument they are using. From the other side, pro-independence posters do not reply by international laws and treaties, but for smth that they think it belongs to them and so they the right to have it. What does this mean? Is this the case that when a side has a lack of arguments, moral rights to proclaim smth, it goes to second had arguments?

p.s. I assume that we all know what we are talking about when I refer to the international law as a second hand argument (legal right vs moral right). Thank you for the comprehension

Cvele,
As a non-Albanian I was always touched by your deep felling and concerns for the K-Albanians, your ex-countrymen.

To Djordje
1. Ahtisaari's proposal is first and foremost a document designed to make Kosovo a multiethnic society. This means that the non-Albanian communities have been granted substantial powers. With more than 90% of Kosovo made up of Albanians, the minority Serb, Roma, Ashkali, Gorani, Egyptian, Turk and Bosniak communities are given tremendous influence in all sectors. In brief, Ahtisaari has designed an asymmetric state.
2.As a first step, Kosovo will have to adopt a constitution that will include many aspects of the Ahtisaari package. A constitutional commission must be formed that includes 21 members, three of whom will come from the Serb community and three from other non-majority communities. Upon approval of the constitution by the existing Assembly in Kosovo, new elections must be held within nine months.
3.The new assembly rules also include various qualified majority voting rules. Certain legal changes would require not only a majority in the Assembly but also a majority of Assembly members who represent non-majority communities. In essence, any major alterations require everyone's assent. The new cabinet must include a Serb minister and a minister from another non-majority community. The same rule applies for deputy ministers as well. If the cabinet has more than 12 members, than the non-majority communities get an additional minister and deputy minister.
4.Any future changes to the constitution require approval from two-thirds of assembly members as well as two-thirds of the members who represent non-majority communities. The same rules apply to the justice system. Kosovo's Supreme Court must have at least 15% of judges representing non-majority communities.
5.Outside of national level institutions, the communities are again granted wide powers at the local level. Full access to schooling in any official language of Kosovo (Albanian and Serbian), and free use of national symbols, language and alphabet are guaranteed. Where non-majority communities form at least 10% of the population, the post of vice-president of the Municipal Assembly goes to a representative of non-majority communities. As is the case with the Ohrid Framework Agreement, Kosovo's public service at all levels must reflect the multiethnic nature of Kosovo society.
6.The most crucial area, however, is decentralisation. This is potentially the biggest hurdle for the Albanian majority, as the Ahtisaari package creates a fairly decentralised state with a number of new municipalities designed to accommodate Serb demands. For example, North Mitrovica gets control over higher education and health care. The same holds true for other Serb-dominated municipalities. Schools that teach in the Serbian language are free to use books developed by appropriate ministries in Serbia.
7.Ahtisaari's proposal does more than create a quasi-independent Kosovo. It offers a framework for another stage in Kosovo's evolution. This stage seems set to last for a protracted period, in the hope that by the time true independence does come, things in the region might make this type of solution more palatable.
I hope this would explain alot to you, however myself as an Abanian this doesn't look like Independence that we wanted and it really hurted me to accept this kind of solution but at this point i see it as most reasonable considerin the current situation and taking into account also the other NON ALBANIAN Kosovars.
Thank you

# Mr. Benny, could you please explain in what sense is Ahtisaari plan a compromise for the Albanians? To us it looks like you are promised everything that matters and we are supposed to get a few crumbs. What else would you like to get that is not already in that plan?
(Djordje, 24. August 2007 14:44)

Have you never read the Ahtisari plan?

First of all Kosova can't have an army more than 2,500 personnel even though your serbian republic has over 8 thousand.
The army can only have light ammunition. Decentralization of areas with minority being majority. New flag, new symbols, etc. Flag can't have or resemble anything with an eagle etc etc.
There is so much to it, I don't want to go on and on talking about it.

"Who cares what he has to say anywhere? He's got the white flag of surrender in his back pocket ready to be pulled out so that it can flap in the wind. This is just a political game to make it appear as if he's something he's not."

I think Serbs have the wrong idea about Ceku. They think of him as someone feeble who has no interest in an independent Kosova/o. Well, to Albanians it is good that the Serbs think that way and underestimate their adversary. I would suggest you however to read a little about Ceku and what his family suffered during the war.He is someone whose family members were decapitated by Serb soldiers during the war. We are talking about elders being decapitated , and about immediate family members. So for those of you who don't seem to know Ceku's efforts for an independent Kosova/o are not only those of a politician but those of an average citizen who lost a family member cowardly killed by; his effort is a personal effort also.

Ahtisari’s plan itself was a big compromise for Albanians while in meantime Serb Delegation sat on the side and just laughed about it,
Now when thing have turned to its end they woke up and try to obstruct/sabotage the process.
You can’t ask for more compromise from Albanian side they did more than enough by accepting the Ahtisari’s plan with all it’ difficulties to implement. In contrary it’s the Serb government that should be pressed on to accept the deal if they really care for the K-Serbs and holy sites throughout Kosovo. But unfortunately for K-Serbs they will be used as in many other Ex-YU countries, and left behind with nothing but in this case Albanians will prove the opposite of that by providing and assisting them to overcome the trauma left by Serbian government once the status is settled. And please the Pro-posters please spear us of the propaganda that Albanians will kill and burn that’s a myth now. You all know that is all connected to the situation created by Serbian government who was and is fueling by serving illusion to K-Serbs that they do live in Serbia.
Just be realistic and honest you will find yourselves proven wrong on almost everything.
Will continue on this issue later.
Thank you

Money for nothing,
Mother to you maybe but for us she has been a spiteful step-mother.

I notice that even the prefix 'Kosovan' let alone just saying 'Kosovans' has been dropped by many pro independence posters. Albania is another country in its own right and the more that it is seen as Albanians wanting Serbian territory as an Albanian state, the less likely it is for countries in the EU and the UN to support forced separation from Serbia.

It is clear that there is still hope for a Greater Albania where people fly the Albanian flag - any new flag for 'Kosovo' would be sidelined.

This is not about true independence but a state based purely on the national identity of another country.

Ahtisari Plan will remain the A point of the agenda of the talks.
This would be be biggest compromise from the Albanian side.
Sure, PM Ceku has made this point, what in fact is what West is considered as a realist solution.

Lowe& Kate - EU supports Ahtisari package not any Greater Albania. Kosova Institutions are preparing to implement the Ahtisari plan after the Independence.
Ahtisari plan was sort of a comptomise that Kosovars had to accept after being pressured by International Community.Now, I think that Serbs are to compromise and accept the Ahtisati package.

After this postponement I think that the populations of Serbia is really prepared to see Kosova gone its own way. There is no better alternative. Serbia has lost it right to govern Kosova long time ago

Albanians have compromised already by accepting no unification with Albania.

it is interesting to notice how human brains work! I mean we are all reading the same text, and the comments I read here are so opposite, like Kate's opinion is always flavoured with some milosevic propaganda, Greater Albania, what a laugh... Kate get over it Greater Serbia aint happening, and greater Albania aint happening neither even though you are the one going on and on about it ... EU supports the Ahtisari plan, and we are preparing for it to start being implemented after 10 December ... I mean we can maybe send you an invitation to come and celebrate Independence day in March or April in the center of our capital ... the center will be ready by than ... we have started to give it a facelift, as it needs it from the scarrs your army and your Regime left behind

So much for EU prefering "broad autonomy".

Someone here from Serb camp said that he would be happy to let EU decide on the issue. Would you still want to do that?

Also someone else said that US is the only obsticle to "fair and balanced negotiations".

I guess there you have it. EU stance pro independence. But as usual the serb camp will go on to looking for the needle in the hay. Well keep on looking while Kosovo flies towards its freedom.

Cvele,
You seem to be a spunky nice young boy by the way you write. You obviously are not old enough to have read enough about Balkan history or had much if any travel
experience to Kosovo.

You should, pherhaps, wait awhile till you get a little older before voicing your "opinion" on the status of Kosovo. As you probably can summize, this is a complicated topic even for the adults on this forum. I realize that you have a lot of time on your hands before school starts, but if you wish to participate on B92 you should do some research on the Balkans so you can have a more informed point of view.

Good luck in your studies.

Cvele, the US, Brits, French and Germans are enough for us. Once those one unilaterally recognize Kosova/o; it doesn't matter whether Slovakia agrees or not. It doesn't matter whether Serbia agrees or not. It doesn't matter whether Russia agrees or not. The reason is simple, Albanians do not want to be under the influence of any of those countries. It is better to be independent and recognized by just those major powers than be autonomous under Serbia and recognized as such by the whole world. Once you get this , then you're ready to move on.

"Delays do not make difficult decisions easier, they still have to be made, and we are asking the EU to remain united on the Ahtisaari proposal and recognize independence after 120 days," Ceku said."

in which case there is then no need for Pristina to truly negotiate. They just need to play pretend for 120 days. Unfortunately for them, they will not be able to fool Moscow and Belgrade.

Guys I am not sure what part you don't understand that Kosova is a done deal.
Have a look on the ICG recomandation to the relevant interantional institutions ("What needs to be done")

http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=3225&l=1

Johny and Minnie
I know this much. Resolution 1244 will never allow Kosovo to succesfully seperate without the EU backing. For which it might not matter to you, but to everyone in Kosovo it does. So Slovenia, slovakia, greece, spain etc. are very important countries to your independence. Without full EU backing there wont be one at all. So get it streight, both of you, that the reallity is, there will never be independence. NEVER. I got to hurry up and get to school now that I have show the "wise" albans why they cant have something that is not theirs.
CCCC

Cvele,
As a non-Albanian I was always touched by your deep felling and concerns for the K-Albanians, your ex-countrymen.

# Mr. Benny, could you please explain in what sense is Ahtisaari plan a compromise for the Albanians? To us it looks like you are promised everything that matters and we are supposed to get a few crumbs. What else would you like to get that is not already in that plan?
(Djordje, 24. August 2007 14:44)

Have you never read the Ahtisari plan?

First of all Kosova can't have an army more than 2,500 personnel even though your serbian republic has over 8 thousand.
The army can only have light ammunition. Decentralization of areas with minority being majority. New flag, new symbols, etc. Flag can't have or resemble anything with an eagle etc etc.
There is so much to it, I don't want to go on and on talking about it.

120 days, 150 days, ....etc. However, the Helsinki Final Act, the UN SC Res 1244 and the Contact Group Guiding Principles prohibit any division and any independence of Kosovo without Serbia's concent. Why many leaders forget this?

Mr. Benny, could you please explain in what sense is Ahtisaari plan a compromise for the Albanians? To us it looks like you are promised everything that matters and we are supposed to get a few crumbs. What else would you like to get that is not already in that plan?

What if no one changes the position on Kosovo status and after December 10th troika report no progress and countries in SC keep their stand?
Who will explain to Albanian people that they must to integrate in Serbian mother country or to remain to be UN administrated Serbian province for a long , long time!
Why will that be more unreal then other alternative?

"Delays do not make difficult decisions easier, they still have to be made, and we are asking the EU to remain united on the Ahtisaari proposal and recognize independence after 120 days," Ceku said.

Get it streight, BOTH RUSSIA and SERBIA know EU will never agree to support unilateral independence of Kosovo. This guy is representing US BRITS GERMANS AND FRENCH. Thats it. You can say thats all you need but that is most certainly not the EU. So after these 120 days you may choose your path. EU through autonomy and no borders with a constantly improving economy, or economic devestation for a long, long time. Longer then any of us will live to see. So Ceku for them to remain united they have to have been united in the first place. No unilateral independence.

Reading many Serb posters here for a while, its something that you note. For Kosovo/a now the only line that they are following not to let it go, it is just judicial one, which means the UN resolution, the international law, treaties, etc, etc. This is the only instrument they are using. From the other side, pro-independence posters do not reply by international laws and treaties, but for smth that they think it belongs to them and so they the right to have it. What does this mean? Is this the case that when a side has a lack of arguments, moral rights to proclaim smth, it goes to second had arguments?

p.s. I assume that we all know what we are talking about when I refer to the international law as a second hand argument (legal right vs moral right). Thank you for the comprehension

Sorry Ischinger but your countrie's gas is coming from Russia and not britain or us. He better listen up before he gets Mr. Putin upset!!!

According to the statement, Ceku conveyed to Ischinger important points related to the development of Kosovo and added that, his vision is that Kosovo should become an independent, sovereign, democratic, multiethnic, secular and functional state

Where does Ceku live & what is his nationality? Also, does this mean Ceku will move to KosovO? Every pro-albanian commentator is ready to thrash anyone they THINK doesn't reside, visit or have an understanding of KosovO.

How could you actually state anything when your "leader" is ethnically albanian & resides 80% if not more of his life in Croatia?

Who cares what he has to say anywhere? He's got the white flag of surrender in his back pocket ready to be pulled out so that it can flap in the wind. This is just a political game to make it appear as if he's something he's not.

To Djordje
1. Ahtisaari's proposal is first and foremost a document designed to make Kosovo a multiethnic society. This means that the non-Albanian communities have been granted substantial powers. With more than 90% of Kosovo made up of Albanians, the minority Serb, Roma, Ashkali, Gorani, Egyptian, Turk and Bosniak communities are given tremendous influence in all sectors. In brief, Ahtisaari has designed an asymmetric state.
2.As a first step, Kosovo will have to adopt a constitution that will include many aspects of the Ahtisaari package. A constitutional commission must be formed that includes 21 members, three of whom will come from the Serb community and three from other non-majority communities. Upon approval of the constitution by the existing Assembly in Kosovo, new elections must be held within nine months.
3.The new assembly rules also include various qualified majority voting rules. Certain legal changes would require not only a majority in the Assembly but also a majority of Assembly members who represent non-majority communities. In essence, any major alterations require everyone's assent. The new cabinet must include a Serb minister and a minister from another non-majority community. The same rule applies for deputy ministers as well. If the cabinet has more than 12 members, than the non-majority communities get an additional minister and deputy minister.
4.Any future changes to the constitution require approval from two-thirds of assembly members as well as two-thirds of the members who represent non-majority communities. The same rules apply to the justice system. Kosovo's Supreme Court must have at least 15% of judges representing non-majority communities.
5.Outside of national level institutions, the communities are again granted wide powers at the local level. Full access to schooling in any official language of Kosovo (Albanian and Serbian), and free use of national symbols, language and alphabet are guaranteed. Where non-majority communities form at least 10% of the population, the post of vice-president of the Municipal Assembly goes to a representative of non-majority communities. As is the case with the Ohrid Framework Agreement, Kosovo's public service at all levels must reflect the multiethnic nature of Kosovo society.
6.The most crucial area, however, is decentralisation. This is potentially the biggest hurdle for the Albanian majority, as the Ahtisaari package creates a fairly decentralised state with a number of new municipalities designed to accommodate Serb demands. For example, North Mitrovica gets control over higher education and health care. The same holds true for other Serb-dominated municipalities. Schools that teach in the Serbian language are free to use books developed by appropriate ministries in Serbia.
7.Ahtisaari's proposal does more than create a quasi-independent Kosovo. It offers a framework for another stage in Kosovo's evolution. This stage seems set to last for a protracted period, in the hope that by the time true independence does come, things in the region might make this type of solution more palatable.
I hope this would explain alot to you, however myself as an Abanian this doesn't look like Independence that we wanted and it really hurted me to accept this kind of solution but at this point i see it as most reasonable considerin the current situation and taking into account also the other NON ALBANIAN Kosovars.
Thank you

"Who cares what he has to say anywhere? He's got the white flag of surrender in his back pocket ready to be pulled out so that it can flap in the wind. This is just a political game to make it appear as if he's something he's not."

I think Serbs have the wrong idea about Ceku. They think of him as someone feeble who has no interest in an independent Kosova/o. Well, to Albanians it is good that the Serbs think that way and underestimate their adversary. I would suggest you however to read a little about Ceku and what his family suffered during the war.He is someone whose family members were decapitated by Serb soldiers during the war. We are talking about elders being decapitated , and about immediate family members. So for those of you who don't seem to know Ceku's efforts for an independent Kosova/o are not only those of a politician but those of an average citizen who lost a family member cowardly killed by; his effort is a personal effort also.