U.S. rejects “NATO state" accusations

Albanians claim for themselves to be smarter than other ex-Yugoslavs since they're using Nato to achieve their goal of independence. If history is anything to go by then it's not looking good for Albanians. Each and every time in the past when they were "smarter" than others and "used" Nazis, Ottomans or whoever else to achieve their dream, that dream didn't last long and was shattered in the end.

"He reiterated that the Ahtisaari plan would serve as a basis for a new round of talks between Belgrade and Priština."

then the US is the only one in the troika who sees things this way. Moscow already declared Ahtisaari dead and buried.

Despite the State Dept rejection of these claims, they are absolutely true. Examples: Bondsteel, Montengh, Vrele, Prishtina AFB - all in Kosovo - are used as actually NATO bases.

I agree Iowe - there seems to be no cohesion at all between the Troika. Unless they get their act together to promote and insist on genuine talks, nothing will be solved.

No, Gonzo, we do not share the same goals as the US. The day that the US gives Texas back to the Mexicans is the day that Serbia allows a greater albania on their soil. Capiche?
It looks like beni has taken the same history classes as Olf and Ahmet. Beni - albanians were islamicized by the turks, and enthusiastically supported the Nazis - that is not just my opinion, those are facts. Read a proper history book.

Nick - But the Troika was formed to find a solution which would be accepted by both Kosovo Albanians and Serbs. The whole point is to discuss ALL available options.

Dragan

Which book should I read? Your books? Why you dont read this? This will show you who are you in fact. Read what Your father of nation said about serbs:

"We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others; we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else’s misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because freedom. The lie is the trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate smartness. We lie creatively, imaginatively, inventively.”

Olf
People of Serbia(70%)care no less about Kosova except housewife’s, pensioner and war criminals to who Kosova might be the place to show their might against defenceless woman, children and elderly.
(Olf, 23. August 2007 15:52)

Ah Olf
Well whats then to worry about? I mean why didnt they give you the green light to proclaim unilateral independence? NATO seems to be afraid of what these housewives and pensioners seem to think.

I mean look at it from this side. Albans want independence but they failed to reach it in the UN. Now they get to choose who will occupy them. They will never be able to govern themselves. The IRONY of it all is that they are actually fighting for less rights now.

Semantics- The language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings.

This post says…"It is an exaggeration to say the Ahtisaari plan for Kosovo aims at creating a NATO state in the province," State Department spokesman Gonzo Gallegos said on Wednesday.
"To qualify Ahtisaari's plan as a NATO state is an exaggeration."


Please note that the Mr. Gallegos does not accuse Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica of telling falsehoods nor does he say that Koštunica is incorrect, only that his words are an “exaggeration”. Mr. Gallegos does not deny anything. It appears that this is only a matter of semantics.

It is not a coincidence that Romania, Bulgaria, Albania and Macedonia are candidates for NATO membership. It is a fact that NATO west will then connect to NATO east (Turkey).

As Congressman Ron Paul stated in 2004, “The further expansion of NATO is in reality a cover for increased US interventionism in Europe and beyond (Caspian Sea). It will be a conduit for more unconstitutional US foreign aid (my tax dollars) and US interference in the internal politics of member nations, especially the new members from the former East.”

All of this back and forth bickering serves no positive purpose, really.
As the attached article states, “The future of the Balkans increasingly hinges on transporting oil and gas to the energy-hungry West.”
The motivating factors for Russia and the U.S. are pretty clear, the question is how will the E.U. choose to respond, if they can come to a consensus.

Unfortunatley, the people of the Balkans are not the priority here.
History does repeat itself.
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/articles/2007/07/23/reportage-01

"Albanians claim for themselves to be smarter than other ex-Yugoslavs"

I have known and worked with many people from ex-Jugoslavia. Most of them good people. I have to say though that the Serbs are the cockiest among them. They think they are the smartest of the Balkans. This is my own opinion and the fact that I am Albanian I am sure it has a lot to do with it, just like the fact that the poster in the quote above is a Serb has a lot to do with it. People from other areas of ex-Jugoslavia might be able to have a less biased position.

Kate your real negotiations platform or opinon makes no sense whatsoever. You seem to raise your voice everyday about how the US is being unfair because it is backing the Albanians, thus that won't allow for real negotiations and it will spoil them from the start. Yet I have never heard you say the same about the Russians backing the Serbs. Somehow, according to you that doesn't ruin the real negotiations. That makes no sense. On one side you proclaim to want fairness on the other side your comments reflect one sidedness. What you and most of the Serbs here consider real and fair negotiations are negotiations based on Serbian and Russian terms; and that is why you and the Serbs here and in Serbian politics want the US, UK etc. to abandon the Albanians yet at the same time you want the full support of Russia for Serbia's stance.
Kate you and our Serb posters here are almost two decades late in wanting real and fair negotiations. Albanians started calling for them 20 years ago, and what they wanted back then was autonomy. Each time they were turned down by the very Serbs who complain now. Back then Albanians asked for direct talks, for no superpower to be involved in solving our issues and each time they were turned down. Now after 20 years when the Serbs are no longer in charge the Serbs are demanding what Albanians asked 2 decades ago; and they are offering to Albanians what they were asking 20 years ago. Too much has changed since then, the rules of the game are not the same and Albanians can gain and much more than what they were asking back then. Cries of unfairness coming from the Serbian camp are unfounded; they are offering too little and it is too late.

Looks like Serbia has wrong-footed the USA/NATO. By reacting to the Serbian Govt rhetoric the State Department have shown that the 'NATO State' comments have hit a nerve.

Again the IC have come up with a plan(Ahtisaari) for a Balkan State that is so fudged and riddled with IC controls that the State(Kosova) would be unable to function. The K.Albs would be mad to accept this plan. Better in the long run(and with the prospect of EU entry in a few years) to re-build bridges with Serbia proper than to accept a this kind of travesty of a plan. It would only lead to decades of grovelling poverty for Kosovo residents.

Kate

"Nick - But the Troika was formed to find a solution which would be accepted by both Kosovo Albanians and Serbs. The whole point is to discuss ALL available options." - Including INDEPENDENCE??

I thought the Serbian goverment said that they are not willing to discuss independence - why don't you send them a letter telling them to discuss all options. Maybe if Russia said to Belgrade to discuss independence as well (as you suggest US should say to Prishtina), then we might get the compromise you keep talking about.

Talk about hypocrisy.

python,

Your role here is to lie about Albanian History. Albanians never stoped to fight against Otomans. In that time Serbs had Authonomy under Otoman Imperatory, the only nation in Balkans. Albanians not just fight against Nazi Fascists, but against serbs (cetnici who were dressed Partizan uniforms) but they liberated half of ex yougoslavia. Furtunately nobody listen lies anymore.

Aleksander - I am perfectly aware of the Troika's role. I hardly think that the difference between 'find a solution' and 'help to find a solution' is reason enough for you to dismiss my comment.

The point is that they exist to pull the parties together to discuss everything - including all the variations that Nick mentioned.

I am not against independence per say. I am only against it being forced on Serbia. If there was a deal which Serbia accepted and the Albanians accepted, then great.

And Nick, I do realise how complicated this would be, but certain elements are very straightforward such as starting genuinely open talks.

Olf
Ofcourse they are afraid. The NATO allience is filled with too many self serving countries that are not willing to follow blindly any more. They didnt in Iraq nor will they in Serbia.

Nick you missed the default option that is to keep the status quo. The status quo is what is left after no compromise is reached.

miri - By genuine talks I mean that they should be intensive and structured and conducted properly. All sides should be made to attend and participate.

The last round of talks were not genuine. They had a set end point before they even began, took place about once a month and only had Maarti as the one 'overseer'.

The Troika setup seems far better, but only if it is used. If the US insists on supporting independence even before the talks begin, they are sabotaging any hope of a solution.

Perhaps that's what they want, after all it's not them who have to tidy up any chaos that they create in Europe. And war and chaos is always good for certain inhumane industries and people.

Pera is right that there is also the option of maintaining the status quo - sometimes it appears that this is exactly what is hoped for by certain international reps.

If Serbia continues this approach, it will become a province of Russia despite the 69.3% of Serbian population wanting EU membership!!!

Yet again. Its no longer 99. America is poor now, and Russia and China are not. EU is extremely devided and there is no way u will get independence.

Kate - the man took 13 months to bring 2 sides to decide on Kosova's future, but of course serbia was just making a mockery, like refusing to shake hands. When the outcome came (which was intensified research and grueling work) for supervised independence with a weak civilian force (2,500) all the serbs came out all crying and saying ridiculous things such as "ohh he received money from the albanians." I really think you need to stop this anti-American attitude you have because it's quiet annoying. Ahtisari team had russians in them, american, european, etc. His report is not to supporting one side so stop these rhetorics about "real talks" because belgrade had really long ones but belgrade was sleeping-in.

Kosova can never be ruled by serbs ever again,a 5% minority will never rule Kosova ever again, get it through your head. Kosova will either gain independence or always be de-facto independent with a large UN force protecting it. Either way, Kosova will be governed by Kososvars.

Iowe,

The US is not the only party in the troika to support independence. The EU has also in countless number of occasions expressed their support for the Ahtisari Plan.

It is in fact Russia that is alone in objecting.

Kate,

I dissagree. The troika was formed to buy enough time to gather sufficient support for the Ahtisari Plan in the European Union.

Your "all options" include the following:

1. Supervised Independence - Sovreignty
2. Autonomy in all its forms - No Sovreignty
3. Partition
4. Confederation - Example Serbia & Montenegro

I seriously cant think of any other options and i dont think anyone else can. These 4 options are objected either by one party or the other therefore making is practically imposible to have any sort of serious negociations.

Every other sub-option falls into these 4 basic categories and is still unnaceptable to one party or the other.

The dissagrement betwen the parties is principal in nature and is not a matter of technicalities. In the end it comes down to "Sovreingty - No Sovreignty".

I mean no disrespect, but when reading your comments sometimes i get the impression that you do not truly understand the principle nature of the dissagrements betwen the parties. When speaking of compromise you speak as if dissagrement betwen the parties is a technical issue which can be sorted out with sufficient negociations.

Kate, Troika does not have a mandate to "find a solution which would be accepted by both Kosovo Albanians and Serbs". Troika is there to intermediate between the parties, who would eventually find a mutually acceptable solution. Troika is not there to either propose or find any solution for the Kosovo status settlement. Before enlightening us with your analysis, please learn the basic facts.

Kate "..such as starting genuinely open talks."

You did it again and again.

Why don't you enlighten us with the meaning of these words? Forgive my "ignorance" but I can't really understand what you want and how do you think you can achieve it.

"It is an exaggeration to say the Ahtisaari plan for Kosovo aims at creating a NATO state in the province," State Department spokesman Gonzo Gallegos said on Wednesday.

“We share the same vision as most people in Serbia: peace, prosperity and ties with trans-Atlantic and European institutions,” he stressed.

"A vast majority of the Security Council member states, as well as the members of the European Union and others, back supervised independence of Kosovo," Gallegos said. "To qualify Ahtisaari's plan as a NATO state is an exaggeration."

To many people here that is really hard to please whichever way Kosova issue is solved
Which part of the above don’t you understand. In addition, Nick has done a perfect job on explaining all of the options.

International law supporters: Laws are about to change to suit the situation. Russia is very much in favour of challenging the present international laws, I it presume it suit them for some reason, who knows why?
Solution is not being forced to Serbia. Serbian politicians are making it look that way. People of Serbia(70%)care no less about Kosova except housewife’s, pensioner and war criminals to who Kosova might be the place to show their might against defenceless woman, children and elderly.

Actually Pera you are right, the default option is here already but who will this suit the Serbs in Kosova. They are in between Belgrade and Prishtina, they are lost.
Since all of you are experts on K-Albanian issues lets talk about the K-Serbs. What is Serbia offering them?
How are they treated in Serbia?
Cvele, do you really think that NATO is "scared" from those I have mentioned?

I am not aware of Kosova being occupied at the moment, in contrary, it is liberated form the occupier 8 years ago.

Cvele, do you think that Serbia is governing themselves- see b92 in Serbian.

Kate, US is usually cleaning the mess that EU creates, you have mixed things up.

@Cvele "They didnt in Iraq nor will they in Serbia."

I supposed you said the same thing about bombing Serbia in 1999.

@Cvele "Yet again. Its no longer 99. America is poor now, and Russia and China are not."

He,he,he, do you really think this is true? Have you compare US GDP with that of Russia's or China's?

Do you really think this is an argument at all?

"A vast majority of the Security Council member states, as well as the members of the European Union and others, back supervised independence of Kosovo," Gallegos said. "To qualify Ahtisaari's plan as a NATO state is an exaggeration."

Security Council Members Belonging to NATO
-France
-Italy
-US
-UK
-Belgium
-Slovakia

6/14

Rest of the members
Russia
China
Congo
Ghana
Indonesia
Panama
Peru
Qatar
South Africa

I wonder how much choice Panama had
South Africa was bullied into it
As for Indonesia with their own seperatists, either bullied or promised no more uprisings

Mr/Mrs SaveKosovo - Kosovo can be serbian dominated again. Maybe we can re-settle all the poor refugees from Krajna into Serbian Kosovo - the demographics could change quite rapidly. Anyway, all our silly exchanges, back-and-forth mean nothing. It is just entertainment, really. The US and Russia will figure out what is accepable to both. It is not 1999 Kosovo anymore. If the Albanians really wanted independence, they should have demanded it then, not 8 years later. That is called weak leadership. Don't you agree? Albanians let the West pull them by the nose, now they are weak. It is true to wonder if the US actually just wants a NATO state in southern Serbia. I personally believe that the US does want a presence in the Balkans - that is why they built mega-Bondsteel. This is not a little MASH unit. Have you seen the size of this camp? I think the US has always had plans to invade, and then stay - undre the blanket of "Humanitarian Intervention". How silly. How does DC pick where they want to be "Humanitarian"? I'd like to know. Anyway, it's just the "Big Boys" doing their world dominance games - and the poor locals just suffer. What else is new?

Obviously the Serbian govt have caught the Americans cold; where else in the middle of Europe could a mafia financed state be allowed to flourish, drugs, weapons, people trafficking unemployment of 50% and all this with 16000 Nato soldiers in an area of 2000 suare km.Serbia does not want your kind of democracy goodbye America.

Why doesn't b92 quote the us state department transcripts directly? The first time the question was asked by Lambros, the spokes-person "took" the question which means that he couldn't remember the current propaganda. The next day, when Lambros asked for the answer, the temporary spokes-person started reciting the standard inane story. Lambros got so annoyed he cut him off abruptly in mid-sentence with a sharp "thank you" as in "shut up, you robot".

"He reiterated that the Ahtisaari plan would serve as a basis for a new round of talks between Belgrade and Priština."

then the US is the only one in the troika who sees things this way. Moscow already declared Ahtisaari dead and buried.

Looks like Serbia has wrong-footed the USA/NATO. By reacting to the Serbian Govt rhetoric the State Department have shown that the 'NATO State' comments have hit a nerve.

Again the IC have come up with a plan(Ahtisaari) for a Balkan State that is so fudged and riddled with IC controls that the State(Kosova) would be unable to function. The K.Albs would be mad to accept this plan. Better in the long run(and with the prospect of EU entry in a few years) to re-build bridges with Serbia proper than to accept a this kind of travesty of a plan. It would only lead to decades of grovelling poverty for Kosovo residents.

Iowe,

The US is not the only party in the troika to support independence. The EU has also in countless number of occasions expressed their support for the Ahtisari Plan.

It is in fact Russia that is alone in objecting.

python,

Your role here is to lie about Albanian History. Albanians never stoped to fight against Otomans. In that time Serbs had Authonomy under Otoman Imperatory, the only nation in Balkans. Albanians not just fight against Nazi Fascists, but against serbs (cetnici who were dressed Partizan uniforms) but they liberated half of ex yougoslavia. Furtunately nobody listen lies anymore.

Despite the State Dept rejection of these claims, they are absolutely true. Examples: Bondsteel, Montengh, Vrele, Prishtina AFB - all in Kosovo - are used as actually NATO bases.

I agree Iowe - there seems to be no cohesion at all between the Troika. Unless they get their act together to promote and insist on genuine talks, nothing will be solved.

Albanians claim for themselves to be smarter than other ex-Yugoslavs since they're using Nato to achieve their goal of independence. If history is anything to go by then it's not looking good for Albanians. Each and every time in the past when they were "smarter" than others and "used" Nazis, Ottomans or whoever else to achieve their dream, that dream didn't last long and was shattered in the end.

Nick - But the Troika was formed to find a solution which would be accepted by both Kosovo Albanians and Serbs. The whole point is to discuss ALL available options.

Kate

"Nick - But the Troika was formed to find a solution which would be accepted by both Kosovo Albanians and Serbs. The whole point is to discuss ALL available options." - Including INDEPENDENCE??

I thought the Serbian goverment said that they are not willing to discuss independence - why don't you send them a letter telling them to discuss all options. Maybe if Russia said to Belgrade to discuss independence as well (as you suggest US should say to Prishtina), then we might get the compromise you keep talking about.

Talk about hypocrisy.

Kate,

I dissagree. The troika was formed to buy enough time to gather sufficient support for the Ahtisari Plan in the European Union.

Your "all options" include the following:

1. Supervised Independence - Sovreignty
2. Autonomy in all its forms - No Sovreignty
3. Partition
4. Confederation - Example Serbia & Montenegro

I seriously cant think of any other options and i dont think anyone else can. These 4 options are objected either by one party or the other therefore making is practically imposible to have any sort of serious negociations.

Every other sub-option falls into these 4 basic categories and is still unnaceptable to one party or the other.

The dissagrement betwen the parties is principal in nature and is not a matter of technicalities. In the end it comes down to "Sovreingty - No Sovreignty".

I mean no disrespect, but when reading your comments sometimes i get the impression that you do not truly understand the principle nature of the dissagrements betwen the parties. When speaking of compromise you speak as if dissagrement betwen the parties is a technical issue which can be sorted out with sufficient negociations.

Kate, Troika does not have a mandate to "find a solution which would be accepted by both Kosovo Albanians and Serbs". Troika is there to intermediate between the parties, who would eventually find a mutually acceptable solution. Troika is not there to either propose or find any solution for the Kosovo status settlement. Before enlightening us with your analysis, please learn the basic facts.

No, Gonzo, we do not share the same goals as the US. The day that the US gives Texas back to the Mexicans is the day that Serbia allows a greater albania on their soil. Capiche?
It looks like beni has taken the same history classes as Olf and Ahmet. Beni - albanians were islamicized by the turks, and enthusiastically supported the Nazis - that is not just my opinion, those are facts. Read a proper history book.

Aleksander - I am perfectly aware of the Troika's role. I hardly think that the difference between 'find a solution' and 'help to find a solution' is reason enough for you to dismiss my comment.

The point is that they exist to pull the parties together to discuss everything - including all the variations that Nick mentioned.

I am not against independence per say. I am only against it being forced on Serbia. If there was a deal which Serbia accepted and the Albanians accepted, then great.

And Nick, I do realise how complicated this would be, but certain elements are very straightforward such as starting genuinely open talks.

Kate "..such as starting genuinely open talks."

You did it again and again.

Why don't you enlighten us with the meaning of these words? Forgive my "ignorance" but I can't really understand what you want and how do you think you can achieve it.

Nick you missed the default option that is to keep the status quo. The status quo is what is left after no compromise is reached.

"It is an exaggeration to say the Ahtisaari plan for Kosovo aims at creating a NATO state in the province," State Department spokesman Gonzo Gallegos said on Wednesday.

“We share the same vision as most people in Serbia: peace, prosperity and ties with trans-Atlantic and European institutions,” he stressed.

"A vast majority of the Security Council member states, as well as the members of the European Union and others, back supervised independence of Kosovo," Gallegos said. "To qualify Ahtisaari's plan as a NATO state is an exaggeration."

To many people here that is really hard to please whichever way Kosova issue is solved
Which part of the above don’t you understand. In addition, Nick has done a perfect job on explaining all of the options.

International law supporters: Laws are about to change to suit the situation. Russia is very much in favour of challenging the present international laws, I it presume it suit them for some reason, who knows why?
Solution is not being forced to Serbia. Serbian politicians are making it look that way. People of Serbia(70%)care no less about Kosova except housewife’s, pensioner and war criminals to who Kosova might be the place to show their might against defenceless woman, children and elderly.

Dragan

Which book should I read? Your books? Why you dont read this? This will show you who are you in fact. Read what Your father of nation said about serbs:

"We lie to deceive ourselves, to console others; we lie for mercy, we lie to fight fear, to encourage ourselves, to hide our and somebody else’s misery. We lie for love and honesty. We lie because freedom. The lie is the trait of our patriotism and the proof of our innate smartness. We lie creatively, imaginatively, inventively.”

miri - By genuine talks I mean that they should be intensive and structured and conducted properly. All sides should be made to attend and participate.

The last round of talks were not genuine. They had a set end point before they even began, took place about once a month and only had Maarti as the one 'overseer'.

The Troika setup seems far better, but only if it is used. If the US insists on supporting independence even before the talks begin, they are sabotaging any hope of a solution.

Perhaps that's what they want, after all it's not them who have to tidy up any chaos that they create in Europe. And war and chaos is always good for certain inhumane industries and people.

Pera is right that there is also the option of maintaining the status quo - sometimes it appears that this is exactly what is hoped for by certain international reps.

Olf
People of Serbia(70%)care no less about Kosova except housewife’s, pensioner and war criminals to who Kosova might be the place to show their might against defenceless woman, children and elderly.
(Olf, 23. August 2007 15:52)

Ah Olf
Well whats then to worry about? I mean why didnt they give you the green light to proclaim unilateral independence? NATO seems to be afraid of what these housewives and pensioners seem to think.

I mean look at it from this side. Albans want independence but they failed to reach it in the UN. Now they get to choose who will occupy them. They will never be able to govern themselves. The IRONY of it all is that they are actually fighting for less rights now.

Actually Pera you are right, the default option is here already but who will this suit the Serbs in Kosova. They are in between Belgrade and Prishtina, they are lost.
Since all of you are experts on K-Albanian issues lets talk about the K-Serbs. What is Serbia offering them?
How are they treated in Serbia?
Cvele, do you really think that NATO is "scared" from those I have mentioned?

I am not aware of Kosova being occupied at the moment, in contrary, it is liberated form the occupier 8 years ago.

Cvele, do you think that Serbia is governing themselves- see b92 in Serbian.

Kate, US is usually cleaning the mess that EU creates, you have mixed things up.

Semantics- The language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings.

This post says…"It is an exaggeration to say the Ahtisaari plan for Kosovo aims at creating a NATO state in the province," State Department spokesman Gonzo Gallegos said on Wednesday.
"To qualify Ahtisaari's plan as a NATO state is an exaggeration."


Please note that the Mr. Gallegos does not accuse Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica of telling falsehoods nor does he say that Koštunica is incorrect, only that his words are an “exaggeration”. Mr. Gallegos does not deny anything. It appears that this is only a matter of semantics.

It is not a coincidence that Romania, Bulgaria, Albania and Macedonia are candidates for NATO membership. It is a fact that NATO west will then connect to NATO east (Turkey).

As Congressman Ron Paul stated in 2004, “The further expansion of NATO is in reality a cover for increased US interventionism in Europe and beyond (Caspian Sea). It will be a conduit for more unconstitutional US foreign aid (my tax dollars) and US interference in the internal politics of member nations, especially the new members from the former East.”

All of this back and forth bickering serves no positive purpose, really.
As the attached article states, “The future of the Balkans increasingly hinges on transporting oil and gas to the energy-hungry West.”
The motivating factors for Russia and the U.S. are pretty clear, the question is how will the E.U. choose to respond, if they can come to a consensus.

Unfortunatley, the people of the Balkans are not the priority here.
History does repeat itself.
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/articles/2007/07/23/reportage-01

Olf
Ofcourse they are afraid. The NATO allience is filled with too many self serving countries that are not willing to follow blindly any more. They didnt in Iraq nor will they in Serbia.

@Cvele "They didnt in Iraq nor will they in Serbia."

I supposed you said the same thing about bombing Serbia in 1999.

"Albanians claim for themselves to be smarter than other ex-Yugoslavs"

I have known and worked with many people from ex-Jugoslavia. Most of them good people. I have to say though that the Serbs are the cockiest among them. They think they are the smartest of the Balkans. This is my own opinion and the fact that I am Albanian I am sure it has a lot to do with it, just like the fact that the poster in the quote above is a Serb has a lot to do with it. People from other areas of ex-Jugoslavia might be able to have a less biased position.

Kate your real negotiations platform or opinon makes no sense whatsoever. You seem to raise your voice everyday about how the US is being unfair because it is backing the Albanians, thus that won't allow for real negotiations and it will spoil them from the start. Yet I have never heard you say the same about the Russians backing the Serbs. Somehow, according to you that doesn't ruin the real negotiations. That makes no sense. On one side you proclaim to want fairness on the other side your comments reflect one sidedness. What you and most of the Serbs here consider real and fair negotiations are negotiations based on Serbian and Russian terms; and that is why you and the Serbs here and in Serbian politics want the US, UK etc. to abandon the Albanians yet at the same time you want the full support of Russia for Serbia's stance.
Kate you and our Serb posters here are almost two decades late in wanting real and fair negotiations. Albanians started calling for them 20 years ago, and what they wanted back then was autonomy. Each time they were turned down by the very Serbs who complain now. Back then Albanians asked for direct talks, for no superpower to be involved in solving our issues and each time they were turned down. Now after 20 years when the Serbs are no longer in charge the Serbs are demanding what Albanians asked 2 decades ago; and they are offering to Albanians what they were asking 20 years ago. Too much has changed since then, the rules of the game are not the same and Albanians can gain and much more than what they were asking back then. Cries of unfairness coming from the Serbian camp are unfounded; they are offering too little and it is too late.

If Serbia continues this approach, it will become a province of Russia despite the 69.3% of Serbian population wanting EU membership!!!

Yet again. Its no longer 99. America is poor now, and Russia and China are not. EU is extremely devided and there is no way u will get independence.

@Cvele "Yet again. Its no longer 99. America is poor now, and Russia and China are not."

He,he,he, do you really think this is true? Have you compare US GDP with that of Russia's or China's?

Do you really think this is an argument at all?

Kate - the man took 13 months to bring 2 sides to decide on Kosova's future, but of course serbia was just making a mockery, like refusing to shake hands. When the outcome came (which was intensified research and grueling work) for supervised independence with a weak civilian force (2,500) all the serbs came out all crying and saying ridiculous things such as "ohh he received money from the albanians." I really think you need to stop this anti-American attitude you have because it's quiet annoying. Ahtisari team had russians in them, american, european, etc. His report is not to supporting one side so stop these rhetorics about "real talks" because belgrade had really long ones but belgrade was sleeping-in.

Kosova can never be ruled by serbs ever again,a 5% minority will never rule Kosova ever again, get it through your head. Kosova will either gain independence or always be de-facto independent with a large UN force protecting it. Either way, Kosova will be governed by Kososvars.

"A vast majority of the Security Council member states, as well as the members of the European Union and others, back supervised independence of Kosovo," Gallegos said. "To qualify Ahtisaari's plan as a NATO state is an exaggeration."

Security Council Members Belonging to NATO
-France
-Italy
-US
-UK
-Belgium
-Slovakia

6/14

Rest of the members
Russia
China
Congo
Ghana
Indonesia
Panama
Peru
Qatar
South Africa

I wonder how much choice Panama had
South Africa was bullied into it
As for Indonesia with their own seperatists, either bullied or promised no more uprisings

Mr/Mrs SaveKosovo - Kosovo can be serbian dominated again. Maybe we can re-settle all the poor refugees from Krajna into Serbian Kosovo - the demographics could change quite rapidly. Anyway, all our silly exchanges, back-and-forth mean nothing. It is just entertainment, really. The US and Russia will figure out what is accepable to both. It is not 1999 Kosovo anymore. If the Albanians really wanted independence, they should have demanded it then, not 8 years later. That is called weak leadership. Don't you agree? Albanians let the West pull them by the nose, now they are weak. It is true to wonder if the US actually just wants a NATO state in southern Serbia. I personally believe that the US does want a presence in the Balkans - that is why they built mega-Bondsteel. This is not a little MASH unit. Have you seen the size of this camp? I think the US has always had plans to invade, and then stay - undre the blanket of "Humanitarian Intervention". How silly. How does DC pick where they want to be "Humanitarian"? I'd like to know. Anyway, it's just the "Big Boys" doing their world dominance games - and the poor locals just suffer. What else is new?

Why doesn't b92 quote the us state department transcripts directly? The first time the question was asked by Lambros, the spokes-person "took" the question which means that he couldn't remember the current propaganda. The next day, when Lambros asked for the answer, the temporary spokes-person started reciting the standard inane story. Lambros got so annoyed he cut him off abruptly in mid-sentence with a sharp "thank you" as in "shut up, you robot".

Obviously the Serbian govt have caught the Americans cold; where else in the middle of Europe could a mafia financed state be allowed to flourish, drugs, weapons, people trafficking unemployment of 50% and all this with 16000 Nato soldiers in an area of 2000 suare km.Serbia does not want your kind of democracy goodbye America.