21

Wednesday, 22.08.2007.

15:28

"Troika to guarantee direct talks"

On Wednesday, Russian Ambassador to Serbia Aleksandar Alekseyev announced the mediating Troika's first task.

Izvor: Beta

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21 Komentari

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Rod

pre 16 godina

"So what do you suggest just exterminate the over two milion "terorist" Albanians?"

I've never suggested anything of the sort, and neither has the Serbian government, not now, and not in 1999, despite all of your Jihad inspired lies and propaganda.

On the contrary,it obvious by their actions over the past 8 years that extermination is indeed the policy of Albanians in Kosovo, given that they've expelled 2/3 of the non-albanians from the province, totalling over 230,000 people, which represents 12% of Kosovo's total population. Additionally, Albanians have destroyed or desecrated over 150 Orthodox Churches,burned down several thousand homes, and desecrated tens of thousands of graves (Apparently it's not enough for Albanians to terrorize living Serbs, they have to terrorize dead ones too). And Albanians continue to murder and terrorize the remianing non-albnians in Kosovo on a daily basis. I will also remind you that all of this was done during peacetime!

But of course, this isn't the first time Albanians have tried to exterminate all Serbs and others in Kosovo, now is it? No certainly not. Remember 1942 benny? No? Do I really need to refresh your memory about how Albanian Nazis butchered well over 30,000 innocent Serbs, Jews, and Roma, and expelled another 150,000 out of Kosovo? In fact there are no Jews left in Kosovo, despite the fact that there was once a sizable population of them.
Now who's fault is this?Certainly not the Serbs.

Extermination of all others has been the policy of Albanians in Kosovo for at least the past 70 years, and this is well documented,
so please Benny, stop embarrassing yourself.

As for Serbs putting their faith in Russia, well like it or not, it is getting results. Kosovo is not independent after all, despite America's and Ceku's promises that it would be in Dec. 2006, May 2007, June 2007, July 2007, and so on.

It is true that the US Government is prone to taking illegal unilateral actions, but no one can deny that this flawed policy is getting them nowhere. USA is losing in Iraq. USA has failed to bring security to Afghanistan. USA is no closer to catching Bin Laden than they were 7 years ago. Despite their best efforts to destabilize the Castro regime, Cuba is a prosperous country with a healthy economy (especially with all of the tourism revenues that they receive), and Castro is still in power. Has USA stopped North Korea's nuke program, NO! What about Iran's? No! Face it, America's days of playing dictator to the rest of the world are finished! USA has no credibility anymore on the international stage, George Bush Jr. has seen to that. So Benny, please consider taking your own advice. You're placing all of your bets on a losing team, just like the Albanians did 60+ years ago when you followed Hitler, and 100 years ago when you followed the Ottoman Turks.

benny

pre 16 godina

Rod wrote "So please, stop beating your head against a brick wall. Whether you like it or not, Kosovo is Serbia, so deal with it.
(Rod, 23. August 2007 21:59) "
So what do you suggest just exterminate the over two milion "terorist" Albanians?
As for the UNSC we all know that they would not approve to bomb Serbia but we also know what happened after!
And one piece of advice don't put your bets on Russia 'cos most likely at the end of the day you and others like you will be dissapointed i mean really dissapointment. You could dream and wish whatever you want as long as you want but the end of this trip doesent seem to go your way so one advice pleace get real wake up and do something proactive instead, like we Serbs have changed and learned from mistakes sinstead of fueling more.

miri

pre 16 godina

Cvele, I didn't ask for your hints or your interpretations.
I asked for official declarations, hard core facts. Do you have any?
Nothing, nista!!

Rod

pre 16 godina

"As for China. They dont want Kosovo gaining independence as much as US wants it. They will VETO if they have to. But are silent because Russia is doing all the talking."

Excellent points Cvele.
I also want to add that the Chinese government has specifically said that their position on Kosovo's final status will mirror Russia's (we already know that Russia will never let "indiepindnti kosova" happen).

As for miri's question about
EU nations who favor autonomy for Kosovo within Serbia: High level government officials from at least 6 EU nations have stated at one time or another in the past year that they are against independence for the Serbian province of Kosovo. These nations are:

Greece, Romania, Cyprus, Slovakia, Spain, and Poland.

Since the leaders of these EU nations have stated that they are against
"inidiepindint kosova", then it is only logical to assume that they support some sort of autonomy for Kosovo-Metohija within Serbia.

I realize that the countries which I mentioned above number only 6 out of the 27 member states of the EU. However, the majority the EU States have made it perfectly clear that they will only support a decision on Kosovo's status made at the UNSC; therefore, most of the EU in fact opposes a unilateral/imposed decision on Kosovo's status made outside of the UNSC.
This has been confirmed most recently by the governments of Hungary, Bulgaria, Portugal, Slovenia, and even Germany (one of the most anti-serb countries in the world.)

All of this being said, I repeat my earlier observation:

The UNSC is the only place for the decision on Kosovo's final status to be made, and this is the only way that such a decision will be legal and legitimate. Any unilateral/imposed decision (as the US and Albanians advocate)will not be respected by the rest of the world, and has absolutely no chance of being implemented peacefully, or for providing stability for the balkans. This would in fact guarantee bloodshed in the Balkans for generations to come.

Again Miri, the UNSC will never allow Kosovo to break off from Serbia, Russia will see to that. So please, stop beating your head against a brick wall. Whether you like it or not, Kosovo is Serbia, so deal with it.

Cvele

pre 16 godina

MIRI

http://en.rian.ru/world/20070818/72275593.html

Slovenia pulling their troops out isnt giving u a hint? They always knew when to fold when it came to Kosovo.

As for China. They dont want Kosovo gaining independence as much as US wants it. They will VETO if they have to. But are silent because Russia is doing all the talking.

miri

pre 16 godina

Can someone (Cvele, Rod, who responded to my comments, provide a slightest proof (article, newspaper, anything) that China would veto the independence. Can you Cvele provide any proof that any EU country (and I mean anyone, even Greece) that have ever mention the so called Kosovo autonomy as a possible solution for Kosovo?

On the contrary I could point you to hundreds of articles (even in B92 website) that most EU countries favors independence. The rest have said that they will sit and wait.

Rod

pre 16 godina

"Let's ask US and Russia to abstain their vote in UNSC and see what the others will vote for. What do you think the result of that will be?"
(miri, 22. August 2007 20:03)

Veto by China, and NO INDEPENDENCE FOR KOSOVO!

As for miri's idea of the EU making this decision, most of the EU charter members are the same Nato Countries who ILLEGALLY
BOMBED YUGOSLAVIA in support of the same Albanian led KLA TERRORISTS who: 1.) started the Kosovo War, 2.)have ethnically cleansed 2/3 of the non-albanians from the proving, which is a full 12% of kosovo's population (over 230,000 people), 3.)are threatening to start another war if their illegitimate demands (indipiendnt kosova) are not met. That being said, the EU has no credibility here, and cannot be trusted to make a fair & impartial decision on the fate of kosovo.

The UNSC is by far the best place for the decision on Kosovo's final status to made, and this is the only place where such a decision will be considered legal and legitimate. Any unilateral decision (as the US and Albanians advocate)will not be respected by the rest of the world, and has absolutely no chance of being implemented peacefully, or providing stability for the balkans. This would in fact guarantee bloodshed for generations to come.

It is clear now that the UNSC will not allow Kosovo Independence to happen. I would advise miri, nikshalla, teni, and the rest to accept the reality that KOSOVO IS SERBIA and stop beating their heads against the wall with their ridiculous schemes of conquest for "greater albania".

SaveKosova

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options, which after all is the whole point of the talks.

The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. And Maarti should have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Kosovo mediators start working with Serbia and the international community.
(kate, 22. August 2007 16:21)

Kate I don't know where to start, how about the fact that you are whinning about the fact that you display symptoms of only allowing ONE side to speak, when the other side has something to speak you completely flare and argue and argue, it's called freedom of speech.
Kosova is in control of itself. belgrade has no power over Kosova, since the whole world is in Kosova (the UN) except for serbia (lol).

The only way I could think that there could be some progress is if belgrade had another election and the belgrade politicians would change.

If any of you are out of touch with reality I would like to draw your attention to todays date, August 22, 2007. Yea, that means it's not 1388 or 1389.

miri

pre 16 godina

To Kate's comment: "The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. "

How about this. Let's get rid of US and Russia and let's EU decide. Would you accept the outcome of that?
Let's ask US and Russia to abstain their vote in UNSC and see what the others will vote for. What do you think the result of that will be?

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Kate

Its this very mentality that serbs and serb camp posters have that Serbian side and Albanian side are not equal (i.e. serbs have more rights, be it legal, moral, historical, human...), thats makes it impossible for albanian to even theorticaly, hypotheticaly, consider remaining within serbia.

"One has a legal right and the other does not." - Did Serbia have a legal right to kill and expell its citizens - where you preaching international law and human rights then in 1999 when albanian were dying?

Had Milosevic not put albanian through 10 years of abusive regime, and then tried to kill them and expell all of them out of Kosovo, then the case for independence would have been weaker, and then maybe you would have had a small point about 'legal' right. Now, its too late.

Its funny how some people in Serb camp blame NATO, USA, albanians, aliens, for losing Kosovo, when its the serbs themselves with the help of Milosevic that lost Kosovo. Everybody can see it apart from serbs. And in the last few years Koshtunica has made the case for independnce even stronger.

kate

pre 16 godina

Yes, Miri, very clever to replace two words in my comment and then paste it like that except for the fact that it doesn't make any sense.

But your English is excellent!

johny

pre 16 godina

"And as I have said before, the position of Serbia in these talks is as the sovereign nation of which Kosovo is currently part; where as the position of Kosovo is as a province seeking independence. You cannot compare the two.

One has a legal right and the other does not. When it comes to redrawing borders it is not that easy.
(kate, 22. August 2007 17:43)"

Kate you don't seem to get it or you act like you don't get it, as the majority of the Serbs don't get it too. These talks are just about that. The reason why we have these talks is because Serbia does not have the sovereignty over Kosova/o. That is why we have the Contact group and before that Ahtisari, lead talks about Kosova/o. If Serbia had the sovereignty over Kosova/o then none of these international bodies would be involved. The situation we have now is one in which international bodies will decide who to assign the sovereignty to; Prishtina and Belgrade being the two choices. You and many Serbs don't like to compare the two simply because you don't like it, not because you can't. Read loudly what you write here and you might be able to see how it is to ask the Albanians to renounce their allies ( the US, UK and other important EU countries), while maintaining that the Serbs have the right to have allies backing them. I fail to see the logic why it is ok for one side to have strong allies and why it is not ok and flat wrong for the other side to have allies.

miri

pre 16 godina

Sorry Kate for the "plagiarism".
That was not my intent.
However, if your read carefully, I think it makes total sense what I wrote (Or better what your wrote with minor modifications)

I thought your will get the meaning, but I guess I have to spell it out for you.

By throwing statements like this you only confirm the one-sided view that you and the others like you have over negotiations, just like I was trying to prove the same thing over Kosovo negotiations with very similar counter-argument. In fact so similar that I actually used your very words( with very little changes).

At least let's agree on one thing that most of us do.
Negotiations will bring nothing between both parties. What this means is that one of the sides will be forced to accept an imposed solution ,one way or the other, and to me looks like Serbia will be the one to forcibly accept it.

Statements like: "if US doesn't mingle into the question will convince the albanians to accept the autonomy" are useless and ridiculous. This is precisely what I was trying to prove.

As for my english being excellent, thanks but I use Microsoft Word to correct me.

Michael, Albanian-American

pre 16 godina

Kate,
It seems obvious to everyone but the Serbs that the game is over. Independence is the only viable outcome. Further stalling by Belgrade will make them look even more pathetic and humiliated than they already look in the eyes of the World.

kate

pre 16 godina

Teni - I meant 'push' as in 'promote'. I realise that the ICG is just a 'think tank' packed full of familiar faces.

And as I have said before, the position of Serbia in these talks is as the sovereign nation of which Kosovo is currently part; where as the position of Kosovo is as a province seeking independence. You cannot compare the two.

One has a legal right and the other does not. When it comes to redrawing borders it is not that easy.

teni

pre 16 godina

Kate: what yu are sayng is just as valid for the Serbs and Russia too. What does "we will try for a compromise while remaining firm on our position" mean to yuo? That's exactly what the Albanians are saying too isn't it?
And Kate the ICG would not doubt be flattered by the importance you assign it, but they cannot force anything at all. Do your homework Kate before you comment on things you do not know.

Paul

pre 16 godina

I don't understand the notion that if the albanians do not achieve independence, all hell will break loose. It's insinuationg that the Serbs cannot defend themselves. GIVE ME A BREAK!! We took on Nato for 78 days and kicked US. We are recognized as a professional military, so what's the problem!!!

miri

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options (i.e independence), which after all is the whole point of the talks.

Russia should stop standing in the wings saying that they are against independence. And Maarti would have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Serbia's mediators start working with Kosovo and the international community.

kate

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options, which after all is the whole point of the talks.

The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. And Maarti should have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Kosovo mediators start working with Serbia and the international community.

kate

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options, which after all is the whole point of the talks.

The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. And Maarti should have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Kosovo mediators start working with Serbia and the international community.

kate

pre 16 godina

Teni - I meant 'push' as in 'promote'. I realise that the ICG is just a 'think tank' packed full of familiar faces.

And as I have said before, the position of Serbia in these talks is as the sovereign nation of which Kosovo is currently part; where as the position of Kosovo is as a province seeking independence. You cannot compare the two.

One has a legal right and the other does not. When it comes to redrawing borders it is not that easy.

kate

pre 16 godina

Yes, Miri, very clever to replace two words in my comment and then paste it like that except for the fact that it doesn't make any sense.

But your English is excellent!

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Kate

Its this very mentality that serbs and serb camp posters have that Serbian side and Albanian side are not equal (i.e. serbs have more rights, be it legal, moral, historical, human...), thats makes it impossible for albanian to even theorticaly, hypotheticaly, consider remaining within serbia.

"One has a legal right and the other does not." - Did Serbia have a legal right to kill and expell its citizens - where you preaching international law and human rights then in 1999 when albanian were dying?

Had Milosevic not put albanian through 10 years of abusive regime, and then tried to kill them and expell all of them out of Kosovo, then the case for independence would have been weaker, and then maybe you would have had a small point about 'legal' right. Now, its too late.

Its funny how some people in Serb camp blame NATO, USA, albanians, aliens, for losing Kosovo, when its the serbs themselves with the help of Milosevic that lost Kosovo. Everybody can see it apart from serbs. And in the last few years Koshtunica has made the case for independnce even stronger.

miri

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options (i.e independence), which after all is the whole point of the talks.

Russia should stop standing in the wings saying that they are against independence. And Maarti would have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Serbia's mediators start working with Kosovo and the international community.

Rod

pre 16 godina

"Let's ask US and Russia to abstain their vote in UNSC and see what the others will vote for. What do you think the result of that will be?"
(miri, 22. August 2007 20:03)

Veto by China, and NO INDEPENDENCE FOR KOSOVO!

As for miri's idea of the EU making this decision, most of the EU charter members are the same Nato Countries who ILLEGALLY
BOMBED YUGOSLAVIA in support of the same Albanian led KLA TERRORISTS who: 1.) started the Kosovo War, 2.)have ethnically cleansed 2/3 of the non-albanians from the proving, which is a full 12% of kosovo's population (over 230,000 people), 3.)are threatening to start another war if their illegitimate demands (indipiendnt kosova) are not met. That being said, the EU has no credibility here, and cannot be trusted to make a fair & impartial decision on the fate of kosovo.

The UNSC is by far the best place for the decision on Kosovo's final status to made, and this is the only place where such a decision will be considered legal and legitimate. Any unilateral decision (as the US and Albanians advocate)will not be respected by the rest of the world, and has absolutely no chance of being implemented peacefully, or providing stability for the balkans. This would in fact guarantee bloodshed for generations to come.

It is clear now that the UNSC will not allow Kosovo Independence to happen. I would advise miri, nikshalla, teni, and the rest to accept the reality that KOSOVO IS SERBIA and stop beating their heads against the wall with their ridiculous schemes of conquest for "greater albania".

Paul

pre 16 godina

I don't understand the notion that if the albanians do not achieve independence, all hell will break loose. It's insinuationg that the Serbs cannot defend themselves. GIVE ME A BREAK!! We took on Nato for 78 days and kicked US. We are recognized as a professional military, so what's the problem!!!

Michael, Albanian-American

pre 16 godina

Kate,
It seems obvious to everyone but the Serbs that the game is over. Independence is the only viable outcome. Further stalling by Belgrade will make them look even more pathetic and humiliated than they already look in the eyes of the World.

miri

pre 16 godina

Sorry Kate for the "plagiarism".
That was not my intent.
However, if your read carefully, I think it makes total sense what I wrote (Or better what your wrote with minor modifications)

I thought your will get the meaning, but I guess I have to spell it out for you.

By throwing statements like this you only confirm the one-sided view that you and the others like you have over negotiations, just like I was trying to prove the same thing over Kosovo negotiations with very similar counter-argument. In fact so similar that I actually used your very words( with very little changes).

At least let's agree on one thing that most of us do.
Negotiations will bring nothing between both parties. What this means is that one of the sides will be forced to accept an imposed solution ,one way or the other, and to me looks like Serbia will be the one to forcibly accept it.

Statements like: "if US doesn't mingle into the question will convince the albanians to accept the autonomy" are useless and ridiculous. This is precisely what I was trying to prove.

As for my english being excellent, thanks but I use Microsoft Word to correct me.

teni

pre 16 godina

Kate: what yu are sayng is just as valid for the Serbs and Russia too. What does "we will try for a compromise while remaining firm on our position" mean to yuo? That's exactly what the Albanians are saying too isn't it?
And Kate the ICG would not doubt be flattered by the importance you assign it, but they cannot force anything at all. Do your homework Kate before you comment on things you do not know.

miri

pre 16 godina

To Kate's comment: "The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. "

How about this. Let's get rid of US and Russia and let's EU decide. Would you accept the outcome of that?
Let's ask US and Russia to abstain their vote in UNSC and see what the others will vote for. What do you think the result of that will be?

johny

pre 16 godina

"And as I have said before, the position of Serbia in these talks is as the sovereign nation of which Kosovo is currently part; where as the position of Kosovo is as a province seeking independence. You cannot compare the two.

One has a legal right and the other does not. When it comes to redrawing borders it is not that easy.
(kate, 22. August 2007 17:43)"

Kate you don't seem to get it or you act like you don't get it, as the majority of the Serbs don't get it too. These talks are just about that. The reason why we have these talks is because Serbia does not have the sovereignty over Kosova/o. That is why we have the Contact group and before that Ahtisari, lead talks about Kosova/o. If Serbia had the sovereignty over Kosova/o then none of these international bodies would be involved. The situation we have now is one in which international bodies will decide who to assign the sovereignty to; Prishtina and Belgrade being the two choices. You and many Serbs don't like to compare the two simply because you don't like it, not because you can't. Read loudly what you write here and you might be able to see how it is to ask the Albanians to renounce their allies ( the US, UK and other important EU countries), while maintaining that the Serbs have the right to have allies backing them. I fail to see the logic why it is ok for one side to have strong allies and why it is not ok and flat wrong for the other side to have allies.

Cvele

pre 16 godina

MIRI

http://en.rian.ru/world/20070818/72275593.html

Slovenia pulling their troops out isnt giving u a hint? They always knew when to fold when it came to Kosovo.

As for China. They dont want Kosovo gaining independence as much as US wants it. They will VETO if they have to. But are silent because Russia is doing all the talking.

Rod

pre 16 godina

"As for China. They dont want Kosovo gaining independence as much as US wants it. They will VETO if they have to. But are silent because Russia is doing all the talking."

Excellent points Cvele.
I also want to add that the Chinese government has specifically said that their position on Kosovo's final status will mirror Russia's (we already know that Russia will never let "indiepindnti kosova" happen).

As for miri's question about
EU nations who favor autonomy for Kosovo within Serbia: High level government officials from at least 6 EU nations have stated at one time or another in the past year that they are against independence for the Serbian province of Kosovo. These nations are:

Greece, Romania, Cyprus, Slovakia, Spain, and Poland.

Since the leaders of these EU nations have stated that they are against
"inidiepindint kosova", then it is only logical to assume that they support some sort of autonomy for Kosovo-Metohija within Serbia.

I realize that the countries which I mentioned above number only 6 out of the 27 member states of the EU. However, the majority the EU States have made it perfectly clear that they will only support a decision on Kosovo's status made at the UNSC; therefore, most of the EU in fact opposes a unilateral/imposed decision on Kosovo's status made outside of the UNSC.
This has been confirmed most recently by the governments of Hungary, Bulgaria, Portugal, Slovenia, and even Germany (one of the most anti-serb countries in the world.)

All of this being said, I repeat my earlier observation:

The UNSC is the only place for the decision on Kosovo's final status to be made, and this is the only way that such a decision will be legal and legitimate. Any unilateral/imposed decision (as the US and Albanians advocate)will not be respected by the rest of the world, and has absolutely no chance of being implemented peacefully, or for providing stability for the balkans. This would in fact guarantee bloodshed in the Balkans for generations to come.

Again Miri, the UNSC will never allow Kosovo to break off from Serbia, Russia will see to that. So please, stop beating your head against a brick wall. Whether you like it or not, Kosovo is Serbia, so deal with it.

SaveKosova

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options, which after all is the whole point of the talks.

The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. And Maarti should have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Kosovo mediators start working with Serbia and the international community.
(kate, 22. August 2007 16:21)

Kate I don't know where to start, how about the fact that you are whinning about the fact that you display symptoms of only allowing ONE side to speak, when the other side has something to speak you completely flare and argue and argue, it's called freedom of speech.
Kosova is in control of itself. belgrade has no power over Kosova, since the whole world is in Kosova (the UN) except for serbia (lol).

The only way I could think that there could be some progress is if belgrade had another election and the belgrade politicians would change.

If any of you are out of touch with reality I would like to draw your attention to todays date, August 22, 2007. Yea, that means it's not 1388 or 1389.

Rod

pre 16 godina

"So what do you suggest just exterminate the over two milion "terorist" Albanians?"

I've never suggested anything of the sort, and neither has the Serbian government, not now, and not in 1999, despite all of your Jihad inspired lies and propaganda.

On the contrary,it obvious by their actions over the past 8 years that extermination is indeed the policy of Albanians in Kosovo, given that they've expelled 2/3 of the non-albanians from the province, totalling over 230,000 people, which represents 12% of Kosovo's total population. Additionally, Albanians have destroyed or desecrated over 150 Orthodox Churches,burned down several thousand homes, and desecrated tens of thousands of graves (Apparently it's not enough for Albanians to terrorize living Serbs, they have to terrorize dead ones too). And Albanians continue to murder and terrorize the remianing non-albnians in Kosovo on a daily basis. I will also remind you that all of this was done during peacetime!

But of course, this isn't the first time Albanians have tried to exterminate all Serbs and others in Kosovo, now is it? No certainly not. Remember 1942 benny? No? Do I really need to refresh your memory about how Albanian Nazis butchered well over 30,000 innocent Serbs, Jews, and Roma, and expelled another 150,000 out of Kosovo? In fact there are no Jews left in Kosovo, despite the fact that there was once a sizable population of them.
Now who's fault is this?Certainly not the Serbs.

Extermination of all others has been the policy of Albanians in Kosovo for at least the past 70 years, and this is well documented,
so please Benny, stop embarrassing yourself.

As for Serbs putting their faith in Russia, well like it or not, it is getting results. Kosovo is not independent after all, despite America's and Ceku's promises that it would be in Dec. 2006, May 2007, June 2007, July 2007, and so on.

It is true that the US Government is prone to taking illegal unilateral actions, but no one can deny that this flawed policy is getting them nowhere. USA is losing in Iraq. USA has failed to bring security to Afghanistan. USA is no closer to catching Bin Laden than they were 7 years ago. Despite their best efforts to destabilize the Castro regime, Cuba is a prosperous country with a healthy economy (especially with all of the tourism revenues that they receive), and Castro is still in power. Has USA stopped North Korea's nuke program, NO! What about Iran's? No! Face it, America's days of playing dictator to the rest of the world are finished! USA has no credibility anymore on the international stage, George Bush Jr. has seen to that. So Benny, please consider taking your own advice. You're placing all of your bets on a losing team, just like the Albanians did 60+ years ago when you followed Hitler, and 100 years ago when you followed the Ottoman Turks.

miri

pre 16 godina

Can someone (Cvele, Rod, who responded to my comments, provide a slightest proof (article, newspaper, anything) that China would veto the independence. Can you Cvele provide any proof that any EU country (and I mean anyone, even Greece) that have ever mention the so called Kosovo autonomy as a possible solution for Kosovo?

On the contrary I could point you to hundreds of articles (even in B92 website) that most EU countries favors independence. The rest have said that they will sit and wait.

miri

pre 16 godina

Cvele, I didn't ask for your hints or your interpretations.
I asked for official declarations, hard core facts. Do you have any?
Nothing, nista!!

benny

pre 16 godina

Rod wrote "So please, stop beating your head against a brick wall. Whether you like it or not, Kosovo is Serbia, so deal with it.
(Rod, 23. August 2007 21:59) "
So what do you suggest just exterminate the over two milion "terorist" Albanians?
As for the UNSC we all know that they would not approve to bomb Serbia but we also know what happened after!
And one piece of advice don't put your bets on Russia 'cos most likely at the end of the day you and others like you will be dissapointed i mean really dissapointment. You could dream and wish whatever you want as long as you want but the end of this trip doesent seem to go your way so one advice pleace get real wake up and do something proactive instead, like we Serbs have changed and learned from mistakes sinstead of fueling more.

teni

pre 16 godina

Kate: what yu are sayng is just as valid for the Serbs and Russia too. What does "we will try for a compromise while remaining firm on our position" mean to yuo? That's exactly what the Albanians are saying too isn't it?
And Kate the ICG would not doubt be flattered by the importance you assign it, but they cannot force anything at all. Do your homework Kate before you comment on things you do not know.

miri

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options (i.e independence), which after all is the whole point of the talks.

Russia should stop standing in the wings saying that they are against independence. And Maarti would have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Serbia's mediators start working with Kosovo and the international community.

nikshala

pre 16 godina

Kate

Its this very mentality that serbs and serb camp posters have that Serbian side and Albanian side are not equal (i.e. serbs have more rights, be it legal, moral, historical, human...), thats makes it impossible for albanian to even theorticaly, hypotheticaly, consider remaining within serbia.

"One has a legal right and the other does not." - Did Serbia have a legal right to kill and expell its citizens - where you preaching international law and human rights then in 1999 when albanian were dying?

Had Milosevic not put albanian through 10 years of abusive regime, and then tried to kill them and expell all of them out of Kosovo, then the case for independence would have been weaker, and then maybe you would have had a small point about 'legal' right. Now, its too late.

Its funny how some people in Serb camp blame NATO, USA, albanians, aliens, for losing Kosovo, when its the serbs themselves with the help of Milosevic that lost Kosovo. Everybody can see it apart from serbs. And in the last few years Koshtunica has made the case for independnce even stronger.

Michael, Albanian-American

pre 16 godina

Kate,
It seems obvious to everyone but the Serbs that the game is over. Independence is the only viable outcome. Further stalling by Belgrade will make them look even more pathetic and humiliated than they already look in the eyes of the World.

miri

pre 16 godina

To Kate's comment: "The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. "

How about this. Let's get rid of US and Russia and let's EU decide. Would you accept the outcome of that?
Let's ask US and Russia to abstain their vote in UNSC and see what the others will vote for. What do you think the result of that will be?

SaveKosova

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options, which after all is the whole point of the talks.

The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. And Maarti should have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Kosovo mediators start working with Serbia and the international community.
(kate, 22. August 2007 16:21)

Kate I don't know where to start, how about the fact that you are whinning about the fact that you display symptoms of only allowing ONE side to speak, when the other side has something to speak you completely flare and argue and argue, it's called freedom of speech.
Kosova is in control of itself. belgrade has no power over Kosova, since the whole world is in Kosova (the UN) except for serbia (lol).

The only way I could think that there could be some progress is if belgrade had another election and the belgrade politicians would change.

If any of you are out of touch with reality I would like to draw your attention to todays date, August 22, 2007. Yea, that means it's not 1388 or 1389.

kate

pre 16 godina

If such international talks have been set up and administered by the Troika, then WHY is one side allowed to refuse to speak about options, which after all is the whole point of the talks.

The US should stop standing in the wings saying that they are pro independence. And Maarti should have left the international stage politely, not trying to push his plan through the ICG.

None of this will work without a genuine push to find a compromise and an insistance that the Kosovo mediators start working with Serbia and the international community.

kate

pre 16 godina

Teni - I meant 'push' as in 'promote'. I realise that the ICG is just a 'think tank' packed full of familiar faces.

And as I have said before, the position of Serbia in these talks is as the sovereign nation of which Kosovo is currently part; where as the position of Kosovo is as a province seeking independence. You cannot compare the two.

One has a legal right and the other does not. When it comes to redrawing borders it is not that easy.

Paul

pre 16 godina

I don't understand the notion that if the albanians do not achieve independence, all hell will break loose. It's insinuationg that the Serbs cannot defend themselves. GIVE ME A BREAK!! We took on Nato for 78 days and kicked US. We are recognized as a professional military, so what's the problem!!!

kate

pre 16 godina

Yes, Miri, very clever to replace two words in my comment and then paste it like that except for the fact that it doesn't make any sense.

But your English is excellent!

miri

pre 16 godina

Sorry Kate for the "plagiarism".
That was not my intent.
However, if your read carefully, I think it makes total sense what I wrote (Or better what your wrote with minor modifications)

I thought your will get the meaning, but I guess I have to spell it out for you.

By throwing statements like this you only confirm the one-sided view that you and the others like you have over negotiations, just like I was trying to prove the same thing over Kosovo negotiations with very similar counter-argument. In fact so similar that I actually used your very words( with very little changes).

At least let's agree on one thing that most of us do.
Negotiations will bring nothing between both parties. What this means is that one of the sides will be forced to accept an imposed solution ,one way or the other, and to me looks like Serbia will be the one to forcibly accept it.

Statements like: "if US doesn't mingle into the question will convince the albanians to accept the autonomy" are useless and ridiculous. This is precisely what I was trying to prove.

As for my english being excellent, thanks but I use Microsoft Word to correct me.

Rod

pre 16 godina

"Let's ask US and Russia to abstain their vote in UNSC and see what the others will vote for. What do you think the result of that will be?"
(miri, 22. August 2007 20:03)

Veto by China, and NO INDEPENDENCE FOR KOSOVO!

As for miri's idea of the EU making this decision, most of the EU charter members are the same Nato Countries who ILLEGALLY
BOMBED YUGOSLAVIA in support of the same Albanian led KLA TERRORISTS who: 1.) started the Kosovo War, 2.)have ethnically cleansed 2/3 of the non-albanians from the proving, which is a full 12% of kosovo's population (over 230,000 people), 3.)are threatening to start another war if their illegitimate demands (indipiendnt kosova) are not met. That being said, the EU has no credibility here, and cannot be trusted to make a fair & impartial decision on the fate of kosovo.

The UNSC is by far the best place for the decision on Kosovo's final status to made, and this is the only place where such a decision will be considered legal and legitimate. Any unilateral decision (as the US and Albanians advocate)will not be respected by the rest of the world, and has absolutely no chance of being implemented peacefully, or providing stability for the balkans. This would in fact guarantee bloodshed for generations to come.

It is clear now that the UNSC will not allow Kosovo Independence to happen. I would advise miri, nikshalla, teni, and the rest to accept the reality that KOSOVO IS SERBIA and stop beating their heads against the wall with their ridiculous schemes of conquest for "greater albania".

johny

pre 16 godina

"And as I have said before, the position of Serbia in these talks is as the sovereign nation of which Kosovo is currently part; where as the position of Kosovo is as a province seeking independence. You cannot compare the two.

One has a legal right and the other does not. When it comes to redrawing borders it is not that easy.
(kate, 22. August 2007 17:43)"

Kate you don't seem to get it or you act like you don't get it, as the majority of the Serbs don't get it too. These talks are just about that. The reason why we have these talks is because Serbia does not have the sovereignty over Kosova/o. That is why we have the Contact group and before that Ahtisari, lead talks about Kosova/o. If Serbia had the sovereignty over Kosova/o then none of these international bodies would be involved. The situation we have now is one in which international bodies will decide who to assign the sovereignty to; Prishtina and Belgrade being the two choices. You and many Serbs don't like to compare the two simply because you don't like it, not because you can't. Read loudly what you write here and you might be able to see how it is to ask the Albanians to renounce their allies ( the US, UK and other important EU countries), while maintaining that the Serbs have the right to have allies backing them. I fail to see the logic why it is ok for one side to have strong allies and why it is not ok and flat wrong for the other side to have allies.

miri

pre 16 godina

Can someone (Cvele, Rod, who responded to my comments, provide a slightest proof (article, newspaper, anything) that China would veto the independence. Can you Cvele provide any proof that any EU country (and I mean anyone, even Greece) that have ever mention the so called Kosovo autonomy as a possible solution for Kosovo?

On the contrary I could point you to hundreds of articles (even in B92 website) that most EU countries favors independence. The rest have said that they will sit and wait.

Cvele

pre 16 godina

MIRI

http://en.rian.ru/world/20070818/72275593.html

Slovenia pulling their troops out isnt giving u a hint? They always knew when to fold when it came to Kosovo.

As for China. They dont want Kosovo gaining independence as much as US wants it. They will VETO if they have to. But are silent because Russia is doing all the talking.

miri

pre 16 godina

Cvele, I didn't ask for your hints or your interpretations.
I asked for official declarations, hard core facts. Do you have any?
Nothing, nista!!

Rod

pre 16 godina

"As for China. They dont want Kosovo gaining independence as much as US wants it. They will VETO if they have to. But are silent because Russia is doing all the talking."

Excellent points Cvele.
I also want to add that the Chinese government has specifically said that their position on Kosovo's final status will mirror Russia's (we already know that Russia will never let "indiepindnti kosova" happen).

As for miri's question about
EU nations who favor autonomy for Kosovo within Serbia: High level government officials from at least 6 EU nations have stated at one time or another in the past year that they are against independence for the Serbian province of Kosovo. These nations are:

Greece, Romania, Cyprus, Slovakia, Spain, and Poland.

Since the leaders of these EU nations have stated that they are against
"inidiepindint kosova", then it is only logical to assume that they support some sort of autonomy for Kosovo-Metohija within Serbia.

I realize that the countries which I mentioned above number only 6 out of the 27 member states of the EU. However, the majority the EU States have made it perfectly clear that they will only support a decision on Kosovo's status made at the UNSC; therefore, most of the EU in fact opposes a unilateral/imposed decision on Kosovo's status made outside of the UNSC.
This has been confirmed most recently by the governments of Hungary, Bulgaria, Portugal, Slovenia, and even Germany (one of the most anti-serb countries in the world.)

All of this being said, I repeat my earlier observation:

The UNSC is the only place for the decision on Kosovo's final status to be made, and this is the only way that such a decision will be legal and legitimate. Any unilateral/imposed decision (as the US and Albanians advocate)will not be respected by the rest of the world, and has absolutely no chance of being implemented peacefully, or for providing stability for the balkans. This would in fact guarantee bloodshed in the Balkans for generations to come.

Again Miri, the UNSC will never allow Kosovo to break off from Serbia, Russia will see to that. So please, stop beating your head against a brick wall. Whether you like it or not, Kosovo is Serbia, so deal with it.

benny

pre 16 godina

Rod wrote "So please, stop beating your head against a brick wall. Whether you like it or not, Kosovo is Serbia, so deal with it.
(Rod, 23. August 2007 21:59) "
So what do you suggest just exterminate the over two milion "terorist" Albanians?
As for the UNSC we all know that they would not approve to bomb Serbia but we also know what happened after!
And one piece of advice don't put your bets on Russia 'cos most likely at the end of the day you and others like you will be dissapointed i mean really dissapointment. You could dream and wish whatever you want as long as you want but the end of this trip doesent seem to go your way so one advice pleace get real wake up and do something proactive instead, like we Serbs have changed and learned from mistakes sinstead of fueling more.

Rod

pre 16 godina

"So what do you suggest just exterminate the over two milion "terorist" Albanians?"

I've never suggested anything of the sort, and neither has the Serbian government, not now, and not in 1999, despite all of your Jihad inspired lies and propaganda.

On the contrary,it obvious by their actions over the past 8 years that extermination is indeed the policy of Albanians in Kosovo, given that they've expelled 2/3 of the non-albanians from the province, totalling over 230,000 people, which represents 12% of Kosovo's total population. Additionally, Albanians have destroyed or desecrated over 150 Orthodox Churches,burned down several thousand homes, and desecrated tens of thousands of graves (Apparently it's not enough for Albanians to terrorize living Serbs, they have to terrorize dead ones too). And Albanians continue to murder and terrorize the remianing non-albnians in Kosovo on a daily basis. I will also remind you that all of this was done during peacetime!

But of course, this isn't the first time Albanians have tried to exterminate all Serbs and others in Kosovo, now is it? No certainly not. Remember 1942 benny? No? Do I really need to refresh your memory about how Albanian Nazis butchered well over 30,000 innocent Serbs, Jews, and Roma, and expelled another 150,000 out of Kosovo? In fact there are no Jews left in Kosovo, despite the fact that there was once a sizable population of them.
Now who's fault is this?Certainly not the Serbs.

Extermination of all others has been the policy of Albanians in Kosovo for at least the past 70 years, and this is well documented,
so please Benny, stop embarrassing yourself.

As for Serbs putting their faith in Russia, well like it or not, it is getting results. Kosovo is not independent after all, despite America's and Ceku's promises that it would be in Dec. 2006, May 2007, June 2007, July 2007, and so on.

It is true that the US Government is prone to taking illegal unilateral actions, but no one can deny that this flawed policy is getting them nowhere. USA is losing in Iraq. USA has failed to bring security to Afghanistan. USA is no closer to catching Bin Laden than they were 7 years ago. Despite their best efforts to destabilize the Castro regime, Cuba is a prosperous country with a healthy economy (especially with all of the tourism revenues that they receive), and Castro is still in power. Has USA stopped North Korea's nuke program, NO! What about Iran's? No! Face it, America's days of playing dictator to the rest of the world are finished! USA has no credibility anymore on the international stage, George Bush Jr. has seen to that. So Benny, please consider taking your own advice. You're placing all of your bets on a losing team, just like the Albanians did 60+ years ago when you followed Hitler, and 100 years ago when you followed the Ottoman Turks.