Portuguese FM: Agreement unlikely in Kosovo talks

Fatos,

what kind of humour is that???
USA and Brittain are the "rest of the world"?

you really think it is that clear in favour of the Albanians? or is that what you read in albanian yellow-press???

no matter what it is, but you should update with reality!

What we realise is that, we have RUSSIA and CHINA backing us up -India and that is the whole world.

PS US cant handle Iraq. Thats your ally thats supposed to face of with Russia over u? Get real!

Fatos, what do you mean the rest of the world wants Kosovo independent? Where do you guys dig up this from?
The EU is split on this, and what about China, Russia and India to name a few, and being nuclear powers representing a huge global population. In addition, most of the other countries in the world are against it. So get serious!!!

The Albanian side has been repeatedly saying that we're just wasting time with further negotiations. I personally don't see the point of changing envoys and trashing the proposed solutions until Serbs are satisfied. Or maybe Fins are conspiring against Serbia? There has to be a time when some of you have to realize that the rest of the world (minus Russia) may be right to ask for Kosovo's independence.

SaveKosova wrote the following:

"Albanians have always been forgotten, even though it was Albania who saved europe from the Ottomans for over 40 years."

I just can't believe the ignorance. No comment!!

Fatos,

The problem with finding is a solution is that it has to satisfy the will of 2.4 million inhabitants of Kosova. The neighborhing countries will agree almost to anything as long as it doesn't affect them (i.e partition). The solution can not be anything but independence bc over 92% of Kosovars are Albanian origin and they want nothing but liberty. If the solution is anything short of independence than EU will have to deal with the transformation of 2.4 million people constantly destabilizing the region.
The threat is large, if Kosova doesn't get independence I can imagine a huge unrest in Kosova, Macedonia, serbia, etc etc.

Albanians have always been forgotten, even though it was Albania who saved europe from the Ottomans for over 40 years. Albanians suffered injustices for centuries, one of the worst was when London Confrence betrayed the Albanians in 1912.


NOTE ***
3.
Population


Kosovo’s population estimates range from 1.9 to 2.4 million. The last two population census conducted in 1981 and 1991 estimated Kosovo’s population at 1.6 and 1.9 million respectively, but the 1991 census probably undercounted Albanians. The latest estimate in 2001 by OSCE puts the number at 2.4 Million.

The population density is close to 200 per square kilometer, one of the highest in Europe.

Get serious? I think it'd benefit you more than me to get serious because the future of your country is on your hands.

However, counting on Russia and China is humorous to me. I am not sure if you are aware that international crisis are not solved by millions of peasants in China, Russia and India but by superpowers like the U.S. and SOME countries in the EU.

maybe I should edit my previous post to something like: all the important countries in the world support the independence for Kosova.

China and India never buzzed about not recognizing Kosova by the way.


"PS US cant handle Iraq. Thats your ally thats supposed to face of with Russia over u? Get real!"

Is this the Russia that got their behind kicked in Afghanistan that you are talking about?

As the U.S. and Russia try to expand their influence (the U.S. by offering democracy to people, and Russia through forcing them to think differently - case of Gerogia) there is something Serbia should keep in mind. the U.S. will never trust you to be in charge of the land where one of its biggest military bases in Europe is located.

If the Serbian side really wants to go through UN, they should go with the conclusion the UN envoy came for Kosovo, a SUPERVISED INDEPENDENCE.
Ahtisari was chosen by UN and that is what he did. The whole world knows that.
Russia and Serbia are , otherwords, blackmailing UN and International community by not accepting the UN envoys findings and recomandations. That is so clear. Because it is not working to your favor, you can NOT reject that and say, you want to go through UN for a solution for Kosovo.
That is HIPOCRISY and if we add cinycism you get a very bad mix.

Are you guys aware of that???

Just remember, there is a say
-Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!

There's no more fooling here.
EU will make Kosovo INDEPENDENT, because it is a European issue, not Russian.
Europe needs to take the matters in its own hands and resolve the issue even without USA or Russia for that matter.
All the indications are that EU is moving in that direction, good for them, finally.

SaveKosova, sir you speak of unrest if there is not a favorable decision after Dec 10. I don't believe that is a threat that NATO will take Seriously. If the path is chosen i don't think the support you had in 99 will appear again. Folks like yourself speak of veiled threats normally end eating UN food packets in a Refugee Camp. I think SaveKosova you might want to rethink that post. Do you think NATO will sit around and do nothing? Do you remember 2004? That unrest did nothing to help Kosovo cause did it? So i guess making a threat of unrest yet again will help no sir. It is quite cold in Dec and if the population choose to cause trouble then so be it. Don't blame NATO for not helping or the World. Did anyone help palesteians? Nope they are still in Refugee camps thought the Arab world. Remember that sir and i hope clear heads and minds will preveil and not listen to those who choose to cause this havoc. Rememeber Macedonia is almost in NATO causing trouble in a NATO members back yard will provoke a response. Serbia is already in Partnership for peace one step from NATO. Last note the London Betrayal if i am not certain i believe albanina fought on the side of Italy and Germany, so in war the defeat loses. So make sure you pick the winning side next time.

SaveKosova wrote the following:

"Albanians have always been forgotten, even though it was Albania who saved europe from the Ottomans for over 40 years."

I just can't believe the ignorance. No comment!!
(Paul, 23. August 2007 01:06)


Hey Paul I feel sorry for you that you have not heard of George Kastrioti Skenderbeu (Albanian: Gjergj Kastrioti Skënderbeg widely known as Skanderbeg). It seems that you are either in your teen years or where you hail from history is a luxury to study.

russia can not get a grip in Chechenia , which is located right in middle of russia.
russai cannot wage a war around the globe like US,UK,France and some other western countries.russia could not feet a handful of soldiers when they were sationed in Kosova. Poor chaps were sleeping in tents at Lozica Bridge,that no other nation with soldiers in kosova has had their soldiers sleep in tents and they had to work on filed for locals in order to get some extra food for their bellies.Come on people, wake up.

"Last note the London Betrayal if i am not certain i believe albanina fought on the side of Italy and Germany, so in war the defeat loses. So make sure you pick the winning side next time.
(JHam, 23. August 2007 02:55)"

Jham next time make sure you pick an unbiased history book. There were around 28'000 Albanian partisans killed during our war with the NAZIS and the Fascists, and unlike the rest of the Balkans we had no help from the either the east or the west against them. There were no British, US, or Russian troops, tanks, and soldiers helping us fight against the NAZIS. We had to do it ourselves. And even though we had no help we managed to save not only the Jews residing in Albania but those coming from the rest of the Balkans and Europe too. That is why the number of Jews in Albanian lands was far bigger after the war then before the war. If I am not mistaken Albania was the only country where this happened. I still fail to see how a country that would have fought along the NAZIS would save their Jews. The history of the Jews in Serbia was another issue. Belgrade was the first capital in Europe to be proclaimed free of Jews by the Serbian mayor of the time. Now if you want to find collaboration read unbiased book and try too look harder which country tried to save their Jews and which not only remained passive but help exterminate them, just like the NAZI platform prescribed. Take a deeper look to Belgrade.

Talking about the London treaty. It is interesting to know that the monarchs of Russia, UK, our Balkan neighbors and other major European countries where cousins, close cousins, who gathered often in Denmark. All of our neighbors had the upper hand since they were dealing with their own cousins. Read more about all the children of the Danish king in the early decades of the 1900's and who they were married to and you might get a better insight on the Balkans and why certain states where treated differentially and awarded land. Half of Europe's monarchs became first cousins through them, and many were brothers and sisters.

To Paul,
I think we agree on many issues here as for the violence but you seem not to be informed of the YU latest history and the Albanian position during these times, If I may i will tell you the most closely fact why we should be on our own based on my experience as K-Albanian. I grew up in one the "holy cities" in Kosovo, and during my entire Adult life i do not remember not even one single day spent without fear of life, i was beaten by Serb policemen many times and I will tell you in short version the most remembered one. It was after my father was removed from his work (same as thousands Albanians) i begun selling cigarettes (that i bought from Serbs) in order to support my family in those hard times until this one day out of now where one of most famous policemen (A famous kid from Belgrade named Dragan) beat me up without any reason and as result he broke my jaw in the middle of the city and took my 20 packs of cigarettes. I was only 17 back then. The torture continued throughout of my teenage years and was “interviewed” (see beaten to death) since I was the grand son of the former rebel (WW2) many many times.
I finished the studies on the basements of Prishtina and all my life with fear of being killed at any time of the day and what’s ironic is without any reason just for breathing the air. I was robbed three times by the same Serbian police at the bus station where they would wait for better dressed students (which would probably have money), and “interview” them. There are no words that would describe the systematic torture that was placed upon us which I’m sure that most of the Serbian posters know this and they confirm this by their postings here, and there is not enough space to write about everyday horrible experiences that yourself and other Non-Kosovars have seen this only on horror movies, but unfortunately we went through hell and what is missing here is that YOU outsiders were not there to see this but myself and hundred thousands like me are the living examples as to why we will rather die than go back to those times.
To some extend I understand why people can not understand the Albanians because simply you were not there to see them what they went through but I will assure you that evry second Kosovo-Albanian have a similar experience. And these people are my Generation todays fact.
Forget the History of Illyrians and other facts this is what 70 % population (See youth my Generation) thinks and will never accept anything less than Independence (with Serbs and all other minorities) in New Independent Kosovo with Kosovar citiezenship.
Hope that will answer a lot of questions
Thank you

I live here in canada where french and english lived tegether for so long and just a year ago french people voted to devide as a saperete nation and was accepted by the leader of this country.My question is why kosovars dont set a referendum just like montenegro did and dont listen what other enemies say?

Fatos,

The problem with finding is a solution is that it has to satisfy the will of 2.4 million inhabitants of Kosova. The neighborhing countries will agree almost to anything as long as it doesn't affect them (i.e partition). The solution can not be anything but independence bc over 92% of Kosovars are Albanian origin and they want nothing but liberty. If the solution is anything short of independence than EU will have to deal with the transformation of 2.4 million people constantly destabilizing the region.
The threat is large, if Kosova doesn't get independence I can imagine a huge unrest in Kosova, Macedonia, serbia, etc etc.

Albanians have always been forgotten, even though it was Albania who saved europe from the Ottomans for over 40 years. Albanians suffered injustices for centuries, one of the worst was when London Confrence betrayed the Albanians in 1912.


NOTE ***
3.
Population


Kosovo’s population estimates range from 1.9 to 2.4 million. The last two population census conducted in 1981 and 1991 estimated Kosovo’s population at 1.6 and 1.9 million respectively, but the 1991 census probably undercounted Albanians. The latest estimate in 2001 by OSCE puts the number at 2.4 Million.

The population density is close to 200 per square kilometer, one of the highest in Europe.

If the Serbian side really wants to go through UN, they should go with the conclusion the UN envoy came for Kosovo, a SUPERVISED INDEPENDENCE.
Ahtisari was chosen by UN and that is what he did. The whole world knows that.
Russia and Serbia are , otherwords, blackmailing UN and International community by not accepting the UN envoys findings and recomandations. That is so clear. Because it is not working to your favor, you can NOT reject that and say, you want to go through UN for a solution for Kosovo.
That is HIPOCRISY and if we add cinycism you get a very bad mix.

Are you guys aware of that???

Just remember, there is a say
-Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!

There's no more fooling here.
EU will make Kosovo INDEPENDENT, because it is a European issue, not Russian.
Europe needs to take the matters in its own hands and resolve the issue even without USA or Russia for that matter.
All the indications are that EU is moving in that direction, good for them, finally.

The Albanian side has been repeatedly saying that we're just wasting time with further negotiations. I personally don't see the point of changing envoys and trashing the proposed solutions until Serbs are satisfied. Or maybe Fins are conspiring against Serbia? There has to be a time when some of you have to realize that the rest of the world (minus Russia) may be right to ask for Kosovo's independence.

Get serious? I think it'd benefit you more than me to get serious because the future of your country is on your hands.

However, counting on Russia and China is humorous to me. I am not sure if you are aware that international crisis are not solved by millions of peasants in China, Russia and India but by superpowers like the U.S. and SOME countries in the EU.

maybe I should edit my previous post to something like: all the important countries in the world support the independence for Kosova.

China and India never buzzed about not recognizing Kosova by the way.


"PS US cant handle Iraq. Thats your ally thats supposed to face of with Russia over u? Get real!"

Is this the Russia that got their behind kicked in Afghanistan that you are talking about?

As the U.S. and Russia try to expand their influence (the U.S. by offering democracy to people, and Russia through forcing them to think differently - case of Gerogia) there is something Serbia should keep in mind. the U.S. will never trust you to be in charge of the land where one of its biggest military bases in Europe is located.

SaveKosova wrote the following:

"Albanians have always been forgotten, even though it was Albania who saved europe from the Ottomans for over 40 years."

I just can't believe the ignorance. No comment!!
(Paul, 23. August 2007 01:06)


Hey Paul I feel sorry for you that you have not heard of George Kastrioti Skenderbeu (Albanian: Gjergj Kastrioti Skënderbeg widely known as Skanderbeg). It seems that you are either in your teen years or where you hail from history is a luxury to study.

russia can not get a grip in Chechenia , which is located right in middle of russia.
russai cannot wage a war around the globe like US,UK,France and some other western countries.russia could not feet a handful of soldiers when they were sationed in Kosova. Poor chaps were sleeping in tents at Lozica Bridge,that no other nation with soldiers in kosova has had their soldiers sleep in tents and they had to work on filed for locals in order to get some extra food for their bellies.Come on people, wake up.

To Paul,
I think we agree on many issues here as for the violence but you seem not to be informed of the YU latest history and the Albanian position during these times, If I may i will tell you the most closely fact why we should be on our own based on my experience as K-Albanian. I grew up in one the "holy cities" in Kosovo, and during my entire Adult life i do not remember not even one single day spent without fear of life, i was beaten by Serb policemen many times and I will tell you in short version the most remembered one. It was after my father was removed from his work (same as thousands Albanians) i begun selling cigarettes (that i bought from Serbs) in order to support my family in those hard times until this one day out of now where one of most famous policemen (A famous kid from Belgrade named Dragan) beat me up without any reason and as result he broke my jaw in the middle of the city and took my 20 packs of cigarettes. I was only 17 back then. The torture continued throughout of my teenage years and was “interviewed” (see beaten to death) since I was the grand son of the former rebel (WW2) many many times.
I finished the studies on the basements of Prishtina and all my life with fear of being killed at any time of the day and what’s ironic is without any reason just for breathing the air. I was robbed three times by the same Serbian police at the bus station where they would wait for better dressed students (which would probably have money), and “interview” them. There are no words that would describe the systematic torture that was placed upon us which I’m sure that most of the Serbian posters know this and they confirm this by their postings here, and there is not enough space to write about everyday horrible experiences that yourself and other Non-Kosovars have seen this only on horror movies, but unfortunately we went through hell and what is missing here is that YOU outsiders were not there to see this but myself and hundred thousands like me are the living examples as to why we will rather die than go back to those times.
To some extend I understand why people can not understand the Albanians because simply you were not there to see them what they went through but I will assure you that evry second Kosovo-Albanian have a similar experience. And these people are my Generation todays fact.
Forget the History of Illyrians and other facts this is what 70 % population (See youth my Generation) thinks and will never accept anything less than Independence (with Serbs and all other minorities) in New Independent Kosovo with Kosovar citiezenship.
Hope that will answer a lot of questions
Thank you

What we realise is that, we have RUSSIA and CHINA backing us up -India and that is the whole world.

PS US cant handle Iraq. Thats your ally thats supposed to face of with Russia over u? Get real!

Fatos, what do you mean the rest of the world wants Kosovo independent? Where do you guys dig up this from?
The EU is split on this, and what about China, Russia and India to name a few, and being nuclear powers representing a huge global population. In addition, most of the other countries in the world are against it. So get serious!!!

Fatos,

what kind of humour is that???
USA and Brittain are the "rest of the world"?

you really think it is that clear in favour of the Albanians? or is that what you read in albanian yellow-press???

no matter what it is, but you should update with reality!

SaveKosova wrote the following:

"Albanians have always been forgotten, even though it was Albania who saved europe from the Ottomans for over 40 years."

I just can't believe the ignorance. No comment!!

SaveKosova, sir you speak of unrest if there is not a favorable decision after Dec 10. I don't believe that is a threat that NATO will take Seriously. If the path is chosen i don't think the support you had in 99 will appear again. Folks like yourself speak of veiled threats normally end eating UN food packets in a Refugee Camp. I think SaveKosova you might want to rethink that post. Do you think NATO will sit around and do nothing? Do you remember 2004? That unrest did nothing to help Kosovo cause did it? So i guess making a threat of unrest yet again will help no sir. It is quite cold in Dec and if the population choose to cause trouble then so be it. Don't blame NATO for not helping or the World. Did anyone help palesteians? Nope they are still in Refugee camps thought the Arab world. Remember that sir and i hope clear heads and minds will preveil and not listen to those who choose to cause this havoc. Rememeber Macedonia is almost in NATO causing trouble in a NATO members back yard will provoke a response. Serbia is already in Partnership for peace one step from NATO. Last note the London Betrayal if i am not certain i believe albanina fought on the side of Italy and Germany, so in war the defeat loses. So make sure you pick the winning side next time.

"Last note the London Betrayal if i am not certain i believe albanina fought on the side of Italy and Germany, so in war the defeat loses. So make sure you pick the winning side next time.
(JHam, 23. August 2007 02:55)"

Jham next time make sure you pick an unbiased history book. There were around 28'000 Albanian partisans killed during our war with the NAZIS and the Fascists, and unlike the rest of the Balkans we had no help from the either the east or the west against them. There were no British, US, or Russian troops, tanks, and soldiers helping us fight against the NAZIS. We had to do it ourselves. And even though we had no help we managed to save not only the Jews residing in Albania but those coming from the rest of the Balkans and Europe too. That is why the number of Jews in Albanian lands was far bigger after the war then before the war. If I am not mistaken Albania was the only country where this happened. I still fail to see how a country that would have fought along the NAZIS would save their Jews. The history of the Jews in Serbia was another issue. Belgrade was the first capital in Europe to be proclaimed free of Jews by the Serbian mayor of the time. Now if you want to find collaboration read unbiased book and try too look harder which country tried to save their Jews and which not only remained passive but help exterminate them, just like the NAZI platform prescribed. Take a deeper look to Belgrade.

Talking about the London treaty. It is interesting to know that the monarchs of Russia, UK, our Balkan neighbors and other major European countries where cousins, close cousins, who gathered often in Denmark. All of our neighbors had the upper hand since they were dealing with their own cousins. Read more about all the children of the Danish king in the early decades of the 1900's and who they were married to and you might get a better insight on the Balkans and why certain states where treated differentially and awarded land. Half of Europe's monarchs became first cousins through them, and many were brothers and sisters.

I live here in canada where french and english lived tegether for so long and just a year ago french people voted to devide as a saperete nation and was accepted by the leader of this country.My question is why kosovars dont set a referendum just like montenegro did and dont listen what other enemies say?