Ceku says will not take part in elections

Apart from having clearly lost credibility with the people there is always the possibility that he may be shipped to The Hague at any time.

«Probably more to do with his lack of credibility given that he said independence in 2006, early 2007, April 2007, May, June defintetly July.....»

I've heard the same in Serbia concerning Mladic's arrest. They said that the general would be defered to The Hague in 2003, then 2004, then 2005, then Mladic would be arrested before then end of 2006, and after during the spring, before summer...

Unfortunately, Kostunica and Tadic have lost all credibility. I have more respect to Agim Ceku who did his best to defend his people during the war from the Serbian aggression that for these two politicians who are giving shelter to the most notorious criminal since WW2.

THIS IS A SHAME for all Serbs. If I were a Serb, I would be ashamed!

Probably more to do with his lack of credibility given that he said independence in 2006, early 2007, April 2007, May, June defintetly July.....

Could it be that Ceku has been indited by the Hague for OP OLUJIJA stiched up by his US friends?

Kate: You are welcome! ;)Nationalism and patriotism are closely related concepts as far as I know and even the best of intentions carry in them the potential to degenerate into something evil. And as far as nationalism is defined as loving one's people and wanting the best for them -in this case independence for Kosovo- I do not see anything wrong with nationalism or fighting to achieve one's national goals.I never doubted that there are Serb patriots and nationalists who do not support the crimes that have committed in their name. I have nothing against them and although I don't agree with them at all I do understand where they are coming from and I do respect their views. The problem I have with the Serb views here is - like that once upon a time favourite American friend of Princip et al Montgomery said - is that they deny any guilt on their part. It is always a reaction, the Serbs are always defending themselves whether they are massacring people in Srebrenica or expelling 1 million K-Albanians or shelling Dubrovnik or anything at all. One guy here put it best - Jovan or something - when he said that he wished they could kill masive numbers of Albanians in self-defence!!! What do you call that Kate? This is also your position as far as I know: the Serbs are simply victims of some international, US supported plot to destroy that. You simply have NEVER taken into account aything done by the Serbs and that is a sign of bigotry in my dictionary.
If you look at WW2, the Russians, Americans, Brits etc all committed war crimes, but it is the Germans and Japanese who paid the highest price for having started it. They bear most of the responsibility and this should also be the case with Serbia. K-Albanians did take revenge on the Serbs I do not deny that but that revenge came after years of traumatic experiences at the hands of the Serb regime. I do not condone it,its ugly and shameful, but I do understand how it happened.
And Princip: you are amazing. Your talent for spin would have made even Alistair Campbell jealous. Keep it up!

Even the ICG accept that the Ahtisaari plan is dead and buried in the UN SC.

"The preferred strategy of the European Union (EU) and the U.S. to bring Kosovo to supervised independence through the United Nations Security Council has failed, following Russia’s declared intention to veto."
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=5018&l=1

ICG is trying its best to get others to agree but are clearly failing and absurdly in so many ways they are now openly suggesting what DSS ministers have been vocal in warning about NATO wishing to create a military state of their own;

"To NATO and its Member States:

10. NATO should consult with member states contributing troops to its Kosovo mission (KFOR) to ensure that none which fundamentally oppose recognising Kosovo’s conditional (supervised) independence are fielding contingents by early 2008, and that their contributions are replaced by those of nations prepared to recognise that status.

11. Following a Kosovo declaration of conditional (supervised) independence and recognition by the U.S. and EU member states, NATO should remain deployed in Kosovo, and carry out the tasks specified for it under the Ahtisaari plan.

12. If the NATO Council does not agree to continued deployment, the U.S. and those EU member states which have recognised Kosovo’s independence should deploy their forces to carry out the relevant security tasks."

Clearly ICG would like NATO to do just that but such an action would immediatly place such troops in breach of UN SC resolutions, International law and be seen as a occupying force and Serbia would have legitamate rights to force withdrawal of occupying offensive occupying forces on it's territory and defend itself diplomatically but if ignored militarily. Reminds me of the Polt Freudian slip - "what if" and I guess the US realise that they would be the only troops left in Kosovo & Metohija and even they "might" not be around given that they clearly have far more important issues without needing to be openly seen as nothing but a feral state trying to impose it's occupation and imperialism around the world. I very much doubt they wish to blow their last ounce of credibility to occupy Serbia's province and it's silence is a sign that it would prefer the issue disappeared.


The ICG are in a clear panic as they co on to suggest;
To the UN Secretariat and UNMIK:

13. Allow Kosovo’s institutions to work on preparations for implementation of the Ahtisaari plan, including adoption by the Assembly of a constitution and other state-forming laws.

14. Respond to a Kosovo declaration of conditional (supervised) independence and recognition of Kosovo by the U.S. and EU member states by turning responsibilities over to the incoming EU missions and withdrawing UNMIK in an orderly fashion. "

- yet ICG and their "intelligent" analysts know that the UN is bound by it's UN SC Resolutions and such a dumb suggestion above could never be enacted as it is authorised to immediatly annul the local parliment PISG if it acts out of bounds and as soon as a illegal declaration is made it will be immediatly annulled by UNMIK as it's authority stems from UN SC 1244 and nothing else.

Dear me there is clear panic in ICG circles to have published this - the house of cards is falling on the deck quicker then many thought.

Very shrewd move by the Prime Minister, well done.

Princip says “Probably more to do with his lack of credibility given that he said independence in 2006, early 2007, April 2007, May, June defintetly July.....”

Princip, what do you think how credible is your prime minister Kostunica, the one that want Serbian forces back to Kosova, more credible that Ceku, less or the same.
ICG is telling very Serbian community in Kosova and Serbs in general what is inevitable, Independence of Kosova, you can call it as you wish. Ahtisari package is going to be accepted by K-Serbs, the ones that we are going to negotiate very soon.
So Serbia is
I would recommend you Princip to put yourself in a position of K-Serbs and than comment solutions. Sometimes to me you sound like someone that we all know, the one that sacrificed so many life’s for it’s myth “Greater Serbia”.
Mate, wake up and touch ground, reality is much different than the articles in RTS

Ceku in Hague would have been long time ago but there is no indicted and I think that there is not going to be one. In Hague there is enough place only for 1000’s Serbian forces terrorist and rappers that will be indicted once the democracy comes to Serbia. Kate remember what happened with Fatmir Limaj, indicted from the Tribunal based on the claims you make, nothing he is at home proven not guilty
There are two ways places for those rappers, terrorist: Serbia or Hague.
I recon it is better and safer if they are in Hague since those people cost a lot to Serbia society in everyday life. If they are in Serbia that this guys still commit crimes i.e. robberies, murders, rapes etc, syndrome stays with them even if they choose to go abroad they still exercise rapes, murders etc. So, I my opinion it is better for them to be in Hague than in streets of Serbia or EU.

Ofcourse he is leaving - because he knows greater albania is finished!

Bye bye ceku

Teni
AMAZING
I just told you that the only reason those incidents happend was because CROATIA, BOSNIA, ALBANIANS tried and with the help of US and GERMANY succeded in destroying something beutiful. It was not the Serbs who were trying to destroy Yugoslavia. Serbia wanted to remain a part of Yugoslavia and even after they left we kept the name for the time being. So dont you tell me my ever so brainwashed friend that it is the Serbs fault.

If Croatia didnt insist on taking Krajina (SERBIAN TERRITORY) war would have never happened.

If Bosnia didnt do the same with RS war would have been avoided there.

So why are the Serbs to blame? For not giving in? There is absolutely no logic behind any of your comments. NONE. You completely elude all history all facts and say Serbs fault. When actually Serbs are completely innocent. 100% not guilty. They cannot prove anything on Seselj and they did not prove anything on Milosevic.

My hat down to him, he supported the movement pushed for independence and will get his independence. He knows its hit time to move on and let someone who is a little more knowledgeable with handling government matters. to make up Kosovos lost years for this struggle,so it will catch up with the EU standards as rapidly as possible.
Serbia can learn from this unselfish act!

Rats are leaving the sinking ship... :)

Cvele: You prove my point better than I would have ever been able to do. I do not deny that the Serbs have a lot of reasons to be proud of their nation. You are forgetting one small thing however:the Germans had all the things you claim the Serbs have and much more. They had some of the best known humanists, writers, historians, musicians, athletes - you name it they had it - and they also committed what are probably the most heinous crimes ever commited in history. The difference is that they do not use their achievements as a shield behind which to hide their crimes. The one does not imply the impossibility of the other my dear Cvele. The Serbs are a very respectable people in general, but you cannot deny that you have also committed some of the worst crimes in the history of the Balkans. Srebrenica, Vukovar, Dubrovnik, Kosovo are also part of your 'glorious military history' and you should be ashamed of those. Why do you think the Croats, Bosnians, K-Albanians and even the Montenegrins don't want to be part of the same state as you? Unfortunately given the way you think I do not expect you to agree with any of this which is also the reason why Kosovo will neer agree to remain within Serbia anymore.

When your (albanian) buddy Ahmet, Axim & Axis - thrash the Serbs - we say nothing, but when a Serb speaks his mind, you albanians have the audacity to thrash him.

He has made valid comments that we all have over the course of time - just because you don't have what you want, be adult about it.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It's simple - the man is getting out so that he will not be the political leader blamed with not keeping the unattainable promise that he's been making to Kosovoar Albanians for years. The talks are pointing more and more to the fact that Kosovo will not be an independent state and he simply does not want to go down in history as a lier. This man is a coward, who has mouleded his career to benefit himself. He is not moving along for the sake of his people, but rather to prevent the destruction of his over-hyped image in Kosovo.

Nikshala: "...something that Koshtunica would never think of doing, i.e. visiting albanians in Presove and speaking albanian to them!!)"

It's not really a fair comparison given that Kosovo is part of Serbia and its residents speak Serbian. Why would Kostunica communicate in Albanian when visiting people in Serbia (your example isn't even within Kosovo)?

In the future (when/ if all this is settled), if Kosovo does have some sort of autonomous status within Serbia, and Albanian becomes an official language of the province, then I agree it would be respectful for leaders to learn a few phrases.

Sekoo leaving while he is getting death threats by Albanian terrorists, presumeably the kind that wear masks, for not accomplishing independence isn't shrewd. It's cowardly and shows a lack of conviction.

Even with USA's backing he's been outclassed by Kostunica.

Victore
You are a Serb and
Serbs have nothing to be ashemed of. If anything they should all be more nationalistic. I mean we are amazing atheletes (from soccer, to basketball, to tennis, to volleyball, to handball, to waterpolo), we also have amazing artists, writers, chessmasters, scientiests, the list goes on and on. Not to mention of proud military history, against the ottomas, against faschism, against, sectism and terrorism for all of which we were unjustly blamed for. For such a small country we have every reason to celebrate our nation and flag. Really wanted you to know that Victore.

Topic
This is a huge SET-UP. The US wants there to be huge competition for which politician will do his best. Splitin the country into factions. As such they can promote which ever member they choose to the alban people. Which will no doubt win.

They might be trying to flush out the most moderate electorate in hopes he would be able to accept autonomy, or at least a scapegoat for the lack of independence.

Teni
That all sounds great. But Serbia unlike Germany in WW2 did not fire the first shot. It would be more like... England if they lost WW2. They would be blamed for something they had no control over other then to shoot back. Speaking of WW2 which side were albans on and which side were Serbs?

When Ceku does this it is an honorable act - please! He's embarassed that all of his promises have been broke - this fellow has no credibility.

Who will be next to waive the white flag?

Thats a wise decision.I think he was a PM in a bad timing.
Thats hope Kosovan Serbs will be involved in the next elections so would have a new PM elected by all its citizens.
I know I will vote for Mr.Veton Surroi who may be the first PM in independent Kosova.

I agree with Princip that Ceku has lost his credibility but that relates more to his ineffective governance than to anything else. Surroi would be a much much better prime minister I think, although I doubt his party would receive enough votes for that.
Kate: You seem to be very touchy for no reason. If you call people medieval and backward and if you misrepresent their views, you should not loose your cool when someone politely points out the flaws in your reasoning. You are not a target because you are Kate, but don't expect us to agree with your views and to say nothing in reply to your comments. That's all. It is nothing personal.
And Kate a nationalist is not always someone who wants his people to seccede from a given country. Milosevic was - or at least pretended to be - much more of a nationalist than most leaders in Yugoslavia and he wasn't trying to seccede. on the contrary he wanted to force everyone to stay in. To me that's the worst kind of nationalism. But in any case if wanting the freedom of Kosovo from Serb oppression makes me a nationalist, than I am one, no shame in it.

Kate

I think its a very good comparison. If Serbia is a multi-ethnic as you claim, and there are 100 000 albanians living happily just in Belgrade as some claim, then he should respect the language of minorities.

I used Presevo as an example because its in Serbia , and we do not need Koshtunica to come to Kosovo to speak to us in albanian, serbian chinese or whatever,. we have our own Prime Minister of Kosovo.

And if Serbia was real about keep Kosovo with its albanian population, then it would have made albanian an official language long time ago, and he would/should have learned some 'phrases' as you put it, by now, instead of just 'separatisti' 'terroristi'!

I didn't expect that comment from you (preacher of rights and respect), for a second I thought you were Jovan.

Ceku is highly suspect in the eyes of Serbians. It would be much better to have Politicians like Surroi in charge in Kosovo. He’s a real educated diplomat and his hands are clean. I do not agree with his politics, but I do respect him.

"Its pointless arguing with Cvele. Don't waste your words, let him live in his mythical 'serbs are angels' world."
(nikshala, 21. August 2007 18:31)

Nikshala
Great post, my favorite today. You know something in my little "mythical" world Serbia is a GREAT NATION. Spanning all 7 continents.

In reality, its rather small with a moderate population to which ALL Kosovo citizens belong. You are all Serbs with alban (from albania) heritige.

KOSOVO IS SERBIA
CCCC

FYI Milos aka Cvele

Kate, Princip

FYI, Ceku has been saying for a long time that he will not take part in the elections even in 2006, so it has nothing to do with the fact independence hasn't happened yet.

And Ceku has genuinely tried to integrate K. serbs, many times he has visited Serbs and spoke to them in serbian (something that Koshtunica would never think of doing, i.e. visiting albanians in Presove and speaking albanian to them!!), and while I expect some comments back: like 'Hague' 'KLA terrorist' blah blah blah.... people who live in Kosovo know that his intentions were true.

Just because he fought in the Croatian army and in KLA, does not make him a war criminal (for non-serbs anyway). If all of youse have any conrete evidence that Ceku was directly involved in war crimes (apart from saying operation Oluja.. Krajina.. blah blah) then send it to Hague tribunal.

I guess his pockets are full now and it's time to depart. Next step will be to seize his bank acoounts, and on to the Hague. Good ridence!!

Teni
Do not forget... Serbia fought NATO and got resolution 1244. As for KLA and their major victories against Serbs... what major victories? What victories? It was like US in Afghanistan. As 1 sided as possible.

A valuable point to be embraced by all the polical actors in Kosova.

Well I suppose he has calculated he can make some political benefit by not participating at the moment.

Louie, with respect Veton Surroi has less chance of being Kosovo Prime Minister than Cedomir Jovanovic has in Serbia.

Perhaps the two could form a coaltion!

princip, dont talk about credibility man, kustunica tryed for 4 years to get PFP now they backtrack, He slams the USA than hires stands by miniature politicians words.
This is an internal Kosovo issue. We are solving our problems slowly but surely.
How about Serbia? same faces year in year out! talk about a change!

Teni - Oh, is that what a 'nat-ion-al-ist' is - I wondered about that. Thanks ;)

But it is ironic, as I'm sure you'll agree, that certain nationalism is deemed patriotism while other nationalism is deemed fanaticism. Much depends upon the 'friends' of the moment.

Personally I think that any type of fervent nationalism which carries with it bigotry and exclusion, or any type of fundamentalism generally, should be consigned to the past. It's all ignorance and fear, wherever it comes from.

And please don't worry - I really don't take offence where criticism is fair and constructive.

What bad timing for an election. Or good timing?

Is Ceku leaving or has he been pushed? Will it be a case of "et tu Surroi"?

Surroi has been careful not to make the "independence or nothing" speech.

Agim Çeku is very respected politician in Kosova, and he will be remembered here as a hero.

Teni and others

Its pointless arguing with Cvele. Don't waste your words, let him live in his mythical 'serbs are angels' world.

Cvele

Now that you have identified the positive aspects of your nation, sit down, take a deep breath and identify the negative sides also, especially the wrongs so many Serbs have accomplished between 1992 and 2000. It is far from being glorious, because, not too long ago, they have committed a genocide against a good people, Bosnia.

Don't forget my friend that patriotism is acceptable in a nation, but nationalism is a door opened on all kinds of atrocities and a door closed on others as a nation and a people.

Reflect on this when you don't think of yourself. The worst thing for a person is what I call the «ego» trip!

Every time someone mentions Yugoslavia like Cvele does, it shows to me that those people are still living in past and beleive in myths.

Mr Surroli will not be PM, it will be Hasim Thaci, funny as it sounds Most Kosovo Serbs trust him because he can reign in the KLA or turn them loose when he wants too. Mr Ceku has no more credibility. He made too many promises and none came though. So now it is Hasim Turn.

Im proud of our PM Agim Ceku not because he happend to be from my hometown and his great achievement as PM, but his part when he took over the command of UCK. The Serbian army were losing heavly and this was few months befor NATO bombarding, thanks to him NATO could locate the Serbian forces.

After his mandat it would be wise by him returning back to the military and help creat a strong Kosovan Armed Forces, only then Serbia will use a different tone when addressing to Kosova and its ppl.

Cvele I hope you understand that it is simply statistically impossible for the Serbs to have made only good things and good choices throughout their history. You are not genetically programmed to be good my friend although you do have this strange belief in being a heavenly people. Whatever gave you that idea is beyond me, but there you are. As for WW2 there were Albanians that fought the Germans and Italians and there were Albanians that joined them in order to fight the Serbs or the Communists mainly. On the other hand there were Serbs that fought the Germans under Tito and there were Serbs that collaborated with the Germans. Does the name September Knights ring a bell to you? If it doesn't it refers to all those Serbs who suddenly became devout Communists at the end of WW2 after having supported the Germans throughout the war. Even Mihailovic, your esteemed Chetnik commander collaborated with the Germans against Tito. It is not that different from what happened with the Albanians really.

Teni, you wrote "You are not genetically programmed to be good my friend although you do have this strange belief in being a heavenly people."

I think you are wrong here. Cvele, for one, is actually programmed to spit on everything that's not Serbia.
Sometimes I think he is a robot, or a "spam" machine that somehow figured out to bypass B92's security passwords with the help of those Russian hackers.

Viktore
"I have a friend in Serbia who wrote this to me lately: «Both sides have been cruel and primitive and remember I said that Kosovo Serbs are not
same like people in Central Serbia and we don’t like
them...simply their habits and moral values are not
the same ).»"

As much as your friend means to you he does not speak for me or any other Serb I know. He could be a spy.
miri
I am not a spam robot.

ALBANS
I did not bypass B92 but then again I didnt have to. I didnt lie. If anyone wishes to question any of my posts Ill be more then happy to provide proof or clarification. So do not attack my character because that means you do not have one. I do not attack anyone personally but reply directly to posts I do or do not agree with and I feel my input could be useful. (to whom... the SERBS)

As you, my countrymen, I have my people. I wish we could all get along and that Yugoslavia could be rebuild, with all the peoples of the region included (fine albania as well) but that doesnt look likely from where I sit.

Not because of me. I would live in such a society. But instead of Kosovo pressuring Serbia into making a Yugoslav federation with its neighbours or even suggesting any such notion they want to separate. When they fully well know that will lead to war. So tell me who is being cynical?

CCCC

"When your (albanian) buddy Ahmet, Axim & Axis - thrash the Serbs - we say nothing, but when a Serb speaks his mind, you albanians have the audacity to thrash him.

He has made valid comments that we all have over the course of time - just because you don't have what you want, be adult about it.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
(GSP, 21. August 2007 21:42)

"

You surely must be kidding right? I'm laughing my lungs out right now.

Kosova Republik is the only way forward.

funny, this socalled "president"...

he´s getting cold feet, since he seems to be realizing that there should be someone else "in power" when the "kosovaah"-illusion is finally buried.

of course, some will continue to interprete this as a "wise move" ... :)

«As much as your friend means to you he does not speak for me or any other Serb I know. He could be a spy. »

Cvele,

My friend is a journalist and very well inform of the whole problematic. So, according to you, Serbs from Kosovo are exactly as the Serbs in Serbia?

Think well, because English Canadians from Quebec are completely different from English Canadians from Vancouver and even Toronto.

Why should Boris be a spy wny he is telling the truth?

You surely must be kidding right? I'm laughing my lungs out right now.

Kosova Republik is the only way forward.
(SaveKosova, 22. August 2007 06:08)

Glad to see you're laughing as this was your ONLY route to your greater albania - he who laughs last, laughs the loudest.

«They cannot prove anything on Seselj and they did not prove anything on Milosevic.»

Do you really think that a tribunal has to declare Milosevic and Seselj guilty of war crimes, when all on this board know well their achievements. Both have participated in a joint criminal enterprise to commit a genocide in the Balkans, and this is well known, even by Serbs in Serbia.

I have a friend in Serbia who wrote this to me lately: «Both sides have been cruel and primitive and remember I said that Kosovo Serbs are not
same like people in Central Serbia and we don’t like
them...simply their habits and moral values are not
the same ).»

And he also writes: « Under Milosevic they were cruel to Albanians and it was
really scary time for Albanians at Kosovo .»

His analysis is very objective and many Serbs like Milan, Cvele and others should look at themselves before pointing at others. Their stances don't help their nation to be positive about the passed events.

nikshala are you out of your mind do you see bush going to texsas and speaking mexican to his mexican citizens,or brown in london speaking pakistani to his pakistani citizens,i think you get the picture. america has more mexsican citizens per head of population then serbia has albanian population do you see america having mexican as the official langauge so why should serbia you live in serbia not albania yuo should think before you coment

Every time someone mentions Yugoslavia like Cvele does, it shows to me that those people are still living in past and beleive in myths.

"Why should Boris be a spy wny he is telling the truth?"

Because he is being paid to work for a German or U.S. owned media site.

The Germans and U.S. own or fund much of Serbian media today, and the "Serb" journalist are paid to write trash and lies against Serbs.

His writing, if you quote right, shows very poor writing skills for a journalist - very subpar and unqualified. I think you could be making up stuff.

Viktore
You seem to be slightly confused. I dont care about your friend. I dont know him or his character. As for Canada, it would be the French Canadians in Quebec and not English Canadians. As for Serbs in Kosovo and Serbs in Serbia they are 100% the same. Same goes for Serbs in Montenegro, Macedonia, and Bosnia. We are all the same. I have plenty of friends from all these regions and I know that for a fact.

Unlike Croatia and Dalmacija we are all the same.

He is speaking his opinion. That is if it his opinion. Because I am being told this by someone who bashes on Serbs every opertunity he gets.

In fact I know of a Croat who said he wishes Croatia was still part of Yugoslavia. Because like this they really have no authority/influence internationally. Can you believe that?

Kosovo is Serbia
CCCC

"In fact I know of a Croat who said he wishes Croatia was still part of Yugoslavia. Because like this they really have no authority/influence internationally. Can you believe that?"

Cvele, is he currently living in Croatia, and, if so, what part of Croatia? Is he an older nostalgic person? Did he always feel this way or was it only some years after Croatia broke away? See I'm wondering if any gung-ho Croats on Croatia's independence back in the early to mid '90s now think differently. Or he could have been one of those who didn't think it was a great idea in the first place.

«Probably more to do with his lack of credibility given that he said independence in 2006, early 2007, April 2007, May, June defintetly July.....»

I've heard the same in Serbia concerning Mladic's arrest. They said that the general would be defered to The Hague in 2003, then 2004, then 2005, then Mladic would be arrested before then end of 2006, and after during the spring, before summer...

Unfortunately, Kostunica and Tadic have lost all credibility. I have more respect to Agim Ceku who did his best to defend his people during the war from the Serbian aggression that for these two politicians who are giving shelter to the most notorious criminal since WW2.

THIS IS A SHAME for all Serbs. If I were a Serb, I would be ashamed!

Rats are leaving the sinking ship... :)

Teni and others

Its pointless arguing with Cvele. Don't waste your words, let him live in his mythical 'serbs are angels' world.

A valuable point to be embraced by all the polical actors in Kosova.

My hat down to him, he supported the movement pushed for independence and will get his independence. He knows its hit time to move on and let someone who is a little more knowledgeable with handling government matters. to make up Kosovos lost years for this struggle,so it will catch up with the EU standards as rapidly as possible.
Serbia can learn from this unselfish act!

Probably more to do with his lack of credibility given that he said independence in 2006, early 2007, April 2007, May, June defintetly July.....

Thats a wise decision.I think he was a PM in a bad timing.
Thats hope Kosovan Serbs will be involved in the next elections so would have a new PM elected by all its citizens.
I know I will vote for Mr.Veton Surroi who may be the first PM in independent Kosova.

Kate: You are welcome! ;)Nationalism and patriotism are closely related concepts as far as I know and even the best of intentions carry in them the potential to degenerate into something evil. And as far as nationalism is defined as loving one's people and wanting the best for them -in this case independence for Kosovo- I do not see anything wrong with nationalism or fighting to achieve one's national goals.I never doubted that there are Serb patriots and nationalists who do not support the crimes that have committed in their name. I have nothing against them and although I don't agree with them at all I do understand where they are coming from and I do respect their views. The problem I have with the Serb views here is - like that once upon a time favourite American friend of Princip et al Montgomery said - is that they deny any guilt on their part. It is always a reaction, the Serbs are always defending themselves whether they are massacring people in Srebrenica or expelling 1 million K-Albanians or shelling Dubrovnik or anything at all. One guy here put it best - Jovan or something - when he said that he wished they could kill masive numbers of Albanians in self-defence!!! What do you call that Kate? This is also your position as far as I know: the Serbs are simply victims of some international, US supported plot to destroy that. You simply have NEVER taken into account aything done by the Serbs and that is a sign of bigotry in my dictionary.
If you look at WW2, the Russians, Americans, Brits etc all committed war crimes, but it is the Germans and Japanese who paid the highest price for having started it. They bear most of the responsibility and this should also be the case with Serbia. K-Albanians did take revenge on the Serbs I do not deny that but that revenge came after years of traumatic experiences at the hands of the Serb regime. I do not condone it,its ugly and shameful, but I do understand how it happened.
And Princip: you are amazing. Your talent for spin would have made even Alistair Campbell jealous. Keep it up!

Cvele: You prove my point better than I would have ever been able to do. I do not deny that the Serbs have a lot of reasons to be proud of their nation. You are forgetting one small thing however:the Germans had all the things you claim the Serbs have and much more. They had some of the best known humanists, writers, historians, musicians, athletes - you name it they had it - and they also committed what are probably the most heinous crimes ever commited in history. The difference is that they do not use their achievements as a shield behind which to hide their crimes. The one does not imply the impossibility of the other my dear Cvele. The Serbs are a very respectable people in general, but you cannot deny that you have also committed some of the worst crimes in the history of the Balkans. Srebrenica, Vukovar, Dubrovnik, Kosovo are also part of your 'glorious military history' and you should be ashamed of those. Why do you think the Croats, Bosnians, K-Albanians and even the Montenegrins don't want to be part of the same state as you? Unfortunately given the way you think I do not expect you to agree with any of this which is also the reason why Kosovo will neer agree to remain within Serbia anymore.

"Its pointless arguing with Cvele. Don't waste your words, let him live in his mythical 'serbs are angels' world."
(nikshala, 21. August 2007 18:31)

Nikshala
Great post, my favorite today. You know something in my little "mythical" world Serbia is a GREAT NATION. Spanning all 7 continents.

In reality, its rather small with a moderate population to which ALL Kosovo citizens belong. You are all Serbs with alban (from albania) heritige.

KOSOVO IS SERBIA
CCCC

FYI Milos aka Cvele

I agree with Princip that Ceku has lost his credibility but that relates more to his ineffective governance than to anything else. Surroi would be a much much better prime minister I think, although I doubt his party would receive enough votes for that.
Kate: You seem to be very touchy for no reason. If you call people medieval and backward and if you misrepresent their views, you should not loose your cool when someone politely points out the flaws in your reasoning. You are not a target because you are Kate, but don't expect us to agree with your views and to say nothing in reply to your comments. That's all. It is nothing personal.
And Kate a nationalist is not always someone who wants his people to seccede from a given country. Milosevic was - or at least pretended to be - much more of a nationalist than most leaders in Yugoslavia and he wasn't trying to seccede. on the contrary he wanted to force everyone to stay in. To me that's the worst kind of nationalism. But in any case if wanting the freedom of Kosovo from Serb oppression makes me a nationalist, than I am one, no shame in it.

princip, dont talk about credibility man, kustunica tryed for 4 years to get PFP now they backtrack, He slams the USA than hires stands by miniature politicians words.
This is an internal Kosovo issue. We are solving our problems slowly but surely.
How about Serbia? same faces year in year out! talk about a change!

Kate, Princip

FYI, Ceku has been saying for a long time that he will not take part in the elections even in 2006, so it has nothing to do with the fact independence hasn't happened yet.

And Ceku has genuinely tried to integrate K. serbs, many times he has visited Serbs and spoke to them in serbian (something that Koshtunica would never think of doing, i.e. visiting albanians in Presove and speaking albanian to them!!), and while I expect some comments back: like 'Hague' 'KLA terrorist' blah blah blah.... people who live in Kosovo know that his intentions were true.

Just because he fought in the Croatian army and in KLA, does not make him a war criminal (for non-serbs anyway). If all of youse have any conrete evidence that Ceku was directly involved in war crimes (apart from saying operation Oluja.. Krajina.. blah blah) then send it to Hague tribunal.

Very shrewd move by the Prime Minister, well done.

Princip says “Probably more to do with his lack of credibility given that he said independence in 2006, early 2007, April 2007, May, June defintetly July.....”

Princip, what do you think how credible is your prime minister Kostunica, the one that want Serbian forces back to Kosova, more credible that Ceku, less or the same.
ICG is telling very Serbian community in Kosova and Serbs in general what is inevitable, Independence of Kosova, you can call it as you wish. Ahtisari package is going to be accepted by K-Serbs, the ones that we are going to negotiate very soon.
So Serbia is
I would recommend you Princip to put yourself in a position of K-Serbs and than comment solutions. Sometimes to me you sound like someone that we all know, the one that sacrificed so many life’s for it’s myth “Greater Serbia”.
Mate, wake up and touch ground, reality is much different than the articles in RTS

Ceku in Hague would have been long time ago but there is no indicted and I think that there is not going to be one. In Hague there is enough place only for 1000’s Serbian forces terrorist and rappers that will be indicted once the democracy comes to Serbia. Kate remember what happened with Fatmir Limaj, indicted from the Tribunal based on the claims you make, nothing he is at home proven not guilty
There are two ways places for those rappers, terrorist: Serbia or Hague.
I recon it is better and safer if they are in Hague since those people cost a lot to Serbia society in everyday life. If they are in Serbia that this guys still commit crimes i.e. robberies, murders, rapes etc, syndrome stays with them even if they choose to go abroad they still exercise rapes, murders etc. So, I my opinion it is better for them to be in Hague than in streets of Serbia or EU.

Mr Surroli will not be PM, it will be Hasim Thaci, funny as it sounds Most Kosovo Serbs trust him because he can reign in the KLA or turn them loose when he wants too. Mr Ceku has no more credibility. He made too many promises and none came though. So now it is Hasim Turn.

Im proud of our PM Agim Ceku not because he happend to be from my hometown and his great achievement as PM, but his part when he took over the command of UCK. The Serbian army were losing heavly and this was few months befor NATO bombarding, thanks to him NATO could locate the Serbian forces.

After his mandat it would be wise by him returning back to the military and help creat a strong Kosovan Armed Forces, only then Serbia will use a different tone when addressing to Kosova and its ppl.

Kate

I think its a very good comparison. If Serbia is a multi-ethnic as you claim, and there are 100 000 albanians living happily just in Belgrade as some claim, then he should respect the language of minorities.

I used Presevo as an example because its in Serbia , and we do not need Koshtunica to come to Kosovo to speak to us in albanian, serbian chinese or whatever,. we have our own Prime Minister of Kosovo.

And if Serbia was real about keep Kosovo with its albanian population, then it would have made albanian an official language long time ago, and he would/should have learned some 'phrases' as you put it, by now, instead of just 'separatisti' 'terroristi'!

I didn't expect that comment from you (preacher of rights and respect), for a second I thought you were Jovan.

Cvele I hope you understand that it is simply statistically impossible for the Serbs to have made only good things and good choices throughout their history. You are not genetically programmed to be good my friend although you do have this strange belief in being a heavenly people. Whatever gave you that idea is beyond me, but there you are. As for WW2 there were Albanians that fought the Germans and Italians and there were Albanians that joined them in order to fight the Serbs or the Communists mainly. On the other hand there were Serbs that fought the Germans under Tito and there were Serbs that collaborated with the Germans. Does the name September Knights ring a bell to you? If it doesn't it refers to all those Serbs who suddenly became devout Communists at the end of WW2 after having supported the Germans throughout the war. Even Mihailovic, your esteemed Chetnik commander collaborated with the Germans against Tito. It is not that different from what happened with the Albanians really.

Agim Çeku is very respected politician in Kosova, and he will be remembered here as a hero.

«They cannot prove anything on Seselj and they did not prove anything on Milosevic.»

Do you really think that a tribunal has to declare Milosevic and Seselj guilty of war crimes, when all on this board know well their achievements. Both have participated in a joint criminal enterprise to commit a genocide in the Balkans, and this is well known, even by Serbs in Serbia.

I have a friend in Serbia who wrote this to me lately: «Both sides have been cruel and primitive and remember I said that Kosovo Serbs are not
same like people in Central Serbia and we don’t like
them...simply their habits and moral values are not
the same ).»

And he also writes: « Under Milosevic they were cruel to Albanians and it was
really scary time for Albanians at Kosovo .»

His analysis is very objective and many Serbs like Milan, Cvele and others should look at themselves before pointing at others. Their stances don't help their nation to be positive about the passed events.

Teni, you wrote "You are not genetically programmed to be good my friend although you do have this strange belief in being a heavenly people."

I think you are wrong here. Cvele, for one, is actually programmed to spit on everything that's not Serbia.
Sometimes I think he is a robot, or a "spam" machine that somehow figured out to bypass B92's security passwords with the help of those Russian hackers.

Every time someone mentions Yugoslavia like Cvele does, it shows to me that those people are still living in past and beleive in myths.

Every time someone mentions Yugoslavia like Cvele does, it shows to me that those people are still living in past and beleive in myths.

Even the ICG accept that the Ahtisaari plan is dead and buried in the UN SC.

"The preferred strategy of the European Union (EU) and the U.S. to bring Kosovo to supervised independence through the United Nations Security Council has failed, following Russia’s declared intention to veto."
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=5018&l=1

ICG is trying its best to get others to agree but are clearly failing and absurdly in so many ways they are now openly suggesting what DSS ministers have been vocal in warning about NATO wishing to create a military state of their own;

"To NATO and its Member States:

10. NATO should consult with member states contributing troops to its Kosovo mission (KFOR) to ensure that none which fundamentally oppose recognising Kosovo’s conditional (supervised) independence are fielding contingents by early 2008, and that their contributions are replaced by those of nations prepared to recognise that status.

11. Following a Kosovo declaration of conditional (supervised) independence and recognition by the U.S. and EU member states, NATO should remain deployed in Kosovo, and carry out the tasks specified for it under the Ahtisaari plan.

12. If the NATO Council does not agree to continued deployment, the U.S. and those EU member states which have recognised Kosovo’s independence should deploy their forces to carry out the relevant security tasks."

Clearly ICG would like NATO to do just that but such an action would immediatly place such troops in breach of UN SC resolutions, International law and be seen as a occupying force and Serbia would have legitamate rights to force withdrawal of occupying offensive occupying forces on it's territory and defend itself diplomatically but if ignored militarily. Reminds me of the Polt Freudian slip - "what if" and I guess the US realise that they would be the only troops left in Kosovo & Metohija and even they "might" not be around given that they clearly have far more important issues without needing to be openly seen as nothing but a feral state trying to impose it's occupation and imperialism around the world. I very much doubt they wish to blow their last ounce of credibility to occupy Serbia's province and it's silence is a sign that it would prefer the issue disappeared.


The ICG are in a clear panic as they co on to suggest;
To the UN Secretariat and UNMIK:

13. Allow Kosovo’s institutions to work on preparations for implementation of the Ahtisaari plan, including adoption by the Assembly of a constitution and other state-forming laws.

14. Respond to a Kosovo declaration of conditional (supervised) independence and recognition of Kosovo by the U.S. and EU member states by turning responsibilities over to the incoming EU missions and withdrawing UNMIK in an orderly fashion. "

- yet ICG and their "intelligent" analysts know that the UN is bound by it's UN SC Resolutions and such a dumb suggestion above could never be enacted as it is authorised to immediatly annul the local parliment PISG if it acts out of bounds and as soon as a illegal declaration is made it will be immediatly annulled by UNMIK as it's authority stems from UN SC 1244 and nothing else.

Dear me there is clear panic in ICG circles to have published this - the house of cards is falling on the deck quicker then many thought.

Apart from having clearly lost credibility with the people there is always the possibility that he may be shipped to The Hague at any time.

Could it be that Ceku has been indited by the Hague for OP OLUJIJA stiched up by his US friends?

Well I suppose he has calculated he can make some political benefit by not participating at the moment.

Louie, with respect Veton Surroi has less chance of being Kosovo Prime Minister than Cedomir Jovanovic has in Serbia.

Perhaps the two could form a coaltion!

Teni - Oh, is that what a 'nat-ion-al-ist' is - I wondered about that. Thanks ;)

But it is ironic, as I'm sure you'll agree, that certain nationalism is deemed patriotism while other nationalism is deemed fanaticism. Much depends upon the 'friends' of the moment.

Personally I think that any type of fervent nationalism which carries with it bigotry and exclusion, or any type of fundamentalism generally, should be consigned to the past. It's all ignorance and fear, wherever it comes from.

And please don't worry - I really don't take offence where criticism is fair and constructive.

It's simple - the man is getting out so that he will not be the political leader blamed with not keeping the unattainable promise that he's been making to Kosovoar Albanians for years. The talks are pointing more and more to the fact that Kosovo will not be an independent state and he simply does not want to go down in history as a lier. This man is a coward, who has mouleded his career to benefit himself. He is not moving along for the sake of his people, but rather to prevent the destruction of his over-hyped image in Kosovo.

Nikshala: "...something that Koshtunica would never think of doing, i.e. visiting albanians in Presove and speaking albanian to them!!)"

It's not really a fair comparison given that Kosovo is part of Serbia and its residents speak Serbian. Why would Kostunica communicate in Albanian when visiting people in Serbia (your example isn't even within Kosovo)?

In the future (when/ if all this is settled), if Kosovo does have some sort of autonomous status within Serbia, and Albanian becomes an official language of the province, then I agree it would be respectful for leaders to learn a few phrases.

Sekoo leaving while he is getting death threats by Albanian terrorists, presumeably the kind that wear masks, for not accomplishing independence isn't shrewd. It's cowardly and shows a lack of conviction.

Even with USA's backing he's been outclassed by Kostunica.

Ofcourse he is leaving - because he knows greater albania is finished!

Bye bye ceku

Victore
You are a Serb and
Serbs have nothing to be ashemed of. If anything they should all be more nationalistic. I mean we are amazing atheletes (from soccer, to basketball, to tennis, to volleyball, to handball, to waterpolo), we also have amazing artists, writers, chessmasters, scientiests, the list goes on and on. Not to mention of proud military history, against the ottomas, against faschism, against, sectism and terrorism for all of which we were unjustly blamed for. For such a small country we have every reason to celebrate our nation and flag. Really wanted you to know that Victore.

Topic
This is a huge SET-UP. The US wants there to be huge competition for which politician will do his best. Splitin the country into factions. As such they can promote which ever member they choose to the alban people. Which will no doubt win.

They might be trying to flush out the most moderate electorate in hopes he would be able to accept autonomy, or at least a scapegoat for the lack of independence.

Teni
That all sounds great. But Serbia unlike Germany in WW2 did not fire the first shot. It would be more like... England if they lost WW2. They would be blamed for something they had no control over other then to shoot back. Speaking of WW2 which side were albans on and which side were Serbs?

What bad timing for an election. Or good timing?

Is Ceku leaving or has he been pushed? Will it be a case of "et tu Surroi"?

Surroi has been careful not to make the "independence or nothing" speech.

Ceku is highly suspect in the eyes of Serbians. It would be much better to have Politicians like Surroi in charge in Kosovo. He’s a real educated diplomat and his hands are clean. I do not agree with his politics, but I do respect him.

When Ceku does this it is an honorable act - please! He's embarassed that all of his promises have been broke - this fellow has no credibility.

Who will be next to waive the white flag?

Teni
AMAZING
I just told you that the only reason those incidents happend was because CROATIA, BOSNIA, ALBANIANS tried and with the help of US and GERMANY succeded in destroying something beutiful. It was not the Serbs who were trying to destroy Yugoslavia. Serbia wanted to remain a part of Yugoslavia and even after they left we kept the name for the time being. So dont you tell me my ever so brainwashed friend that it is the Serbs fault.

If Croatia didnt insist on taking Krajina (SERBIAN TERRITORY) war would have never happened.

If Bosnia didnt do the same with RS war would have been avoided there.

So why are the Serbs to blame? For not giving in? There is absolutely no logic behind any of your comments. NONE. You completely elude all history all facts and say Serbs fault. When actually Serbs are completely innocent. 100% not guilty. They cannot prove anything on Seselj and they did not prove anything on Milosevic.

Cvele

Now that you have identified the positive aspects of your nation, sit down, take a deep breath and identify the negative sides also, especially the wrongs so many Serbs have accomplished between 1992 and 2000. It is far from being glorious, because, not too long ago, they have committed a genocide against a good people, Bosnia.

Don't forget my friend that patriotism is acceptable in a nation, but nationalism is a door opened on all kinds of atrocities and a door closed on others as a nation and a people.

Reflect on this when you don't think of yourself. The worst thing for a person is what I call the «ego» trip!

I guess his pockets are full now and it's time to depart. Next step will be to seize his bank acoounts, and on to the Hague. Good ridence!!

When your (albanian) buddy Ahmet, Axim & Axis - thrash the Serbs - we say nothing, but when a Serb speaks his mind, you albanians have the audacity to thrash him.

He has made valid comments that we all have over the course of time - just because you don't have what you want, be adult about it.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Teni
Do not forget... Serbia fought NATO and got resolution 1244. As for KLA and their major victories against Serbs... what major victories? What victories? It was like US in Afghanistan. As 1 sided as possible.

Viktore
"I have a friend in Serbia who wrote this to me lately: «Both sides have been cruel and primitive and remember I said that Kosovo Serbs are not
same like people in Central Serbia and we don’t like
them...simply their habits and moral values are not
the same ).»"

As much as your friend means to you he does not speak for me or any other Serb I know. He could be a spy.
miri
I am not a spam robot.

ALBANS
I did not bypass B92 but then again I didnt have to. I didnt lie. If anyone wishes to question any of my posts Ill be more then happy to provide proof or clarification. So do not attack my character because that means you do not have one. I do not attack anyone personally but reply directly to posts I do or do not agree with and I feel my input could be useful. (to whom... the SERBS)

As you, my countrymen, I have my people. I wish we could all get along and that Yugoslavia could be rebuild, with all the peoples of the region included (fine albania as well) but that doesnt look likely from where I sit.

Not because of me. I would live in such a society. But instead of Kosovo pressuring Serbia into making a Yugoslav federation with its neighbours or even suggesting any such notion they want to separate. When they fully well know that will lead to war. So tell me who is being cynical?

CCCC

"When your (albanian) buddy Ahmet, Axim & Axis - thrash the Serbs - we say nothing, but when a Serb speaks his mind, you albanians have the audacity to thrash him.

He has made valid comments that we all have over the course of time - just because you don't have what you want, be adult about it.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
(GSP, 21. August 2007 21:42)

"

You surely must be kidding right? I'm laughing my lungs out right now.

Kosova Republik is the only way forward.

nikshala are you out of your mind do you see bush going to texsas and speaking mexican to his mexican citizens,or brown in london speaking pakistani to his pakistani citizens,i think you get the picture. america has more mexsican citizens per head of population then serbia has albanian population do you see america having mexican as the official langauge so why should serbia you live in serbia not albania yuo should think before you coment

funny, this socalled "president"...

he´s getting cold feet, since he seems to be realizing that there should be someone else "in power" when the "kosovaah"-illusion is finally buried.

of course, some will continue to interprete this as a "wise move" ... :)

«As much as your friend means to you he does not speak for me or any other Serb I know. He could be a spy. »

Cvele,

My friend is a journalist and very well inform of the whole problematic. So, according to you, Serbs from Kosovo are exactly as the Serbs in Serbia?

Think well, because English Canadians from Quebec are completely different from English Canadians from Vancouver and even Toronto.

Why should Boris be a spy wny he is telling the truth?

"Why should Boris be a spy wny he is telling the truth?"

Because he is being paid to work for a German or U.S. owned media site.

The Germans and U.S. own or fund much of Serbian media today, and the "Serb" journalist are paid to write trash and lies against Serbs.

His writing, if you quote right, shows very poor writing skills for a journalist - very subpar and unqualified. I think you could be making up stuff.

Viktore
You seem to be slightly confused. I dont care about your friend. I dont know him or his character. As for Canada, it would be the French Canadians in Quebec and not English Canadians. As for Serbs in Kosovo and Serbs in Serbia they are 100% the same. Same goes for Serbs in Montenegro, Macedonia, and Bosnia. We are all the same. I have plenty of friends from all these regions and I know that for a fact.

Unlike Croatia and Dalmacija we are all the same.

He is speaking his opinion. That is if it his opinion. Because I am being told this by someone who bashes on Serbs every opertunity he gets.

In fact I know of a Croat who said he wishes Croatia was still part of Yugoslavia. Because like this they really have no authority/influence internationally. Can you believe that?

Kosovo is Serbia
CCCC

You surely must be kidding right? I'm laughing my lungs out right now.

Kosova Republik is the only way forward.
(SaveKosova, 22. August 2007 06:08)

Glad to see you're laughing as this was your ONLY route to your greater albania - he who laughs last, laughs the loudest.

"In fact I know of a Croat who said he wishes Croatia was still part of Yugoslavia. Because like this they really have no authority/influence internationally. Can you believe that?"

Cvele, is he currently living in Croatia, and, if so, what part of Croatia? Is he an older nostalgic person? Did he always feel this way or was it only some years after Croatia broke away? See I'm wondering if any gung-ho Croats on Croatia's independence back in the early to mid '90s now think differently. Or he could have been one of those who didn't think it was a great idea in the first place.