"Unilateral recognition of Kosovo terrible idea"

Chris Blaku and SaveKosova,

You complain about the death of Albanians, yet it was precisely the UCK that started the war.

Proving that the UCK started the war is as simple as reading the public communiques it issued before the war started. In 1997 the UCK publicly threatened to unleash an even bloodier war than Bosnia. (Communique no. 35, published in Koha Ditore 8 Aug 97 p3)

The UCK made no secret of its ambitions: "We make it clear to the Albanian people that the UCK was born out of necessity, because of the times we live
in, and its sole goal is the liberation of our territories. It has not introduced itself to the public in the
normal fashion, indoors or at a round table, but by turning the barrel of a gun against the invader and
traitors. Those in the failed pacifist movement must now realize that Kosova and the other Albanian territories will not be liberated down
the telephone or from an office, but only by a serious commitment in support of the armed struggle." (UCK communique no. 40, published in 'Bujku', 5 Dec 97 p10)

The UCK openly took credit for killings and terrorist attacks and in the most public way possible threatened "death to enemies and traitors". (Communique No 43 of the UCK General Staff, dated 2nd March 1998, published in 'Bujku' 4 Mar 98)

You can try to blame Serbia all you like. But the statements that the UCK made before the war are irrefutable proof that they, not Serbia, started the war.

Now we have an unfortunate situation where hypocrites like you are trying to blame Serbia for the consequences of your beloved UCK's billigerent actions.

Independence is your goal and it always has been. You don't care about the estimated 10,000 people who died during the war. They're nothing more than cannon fodder in your political agenda.

Hypocrites like you claim to hate death and destruction, yet you lionize the people who unleashed it against your own people.

The people of Kosovo have foolishly elected two UCK commanders (Ceku and Haradinaj) to be their prime ministers.

What kind of an independent Kosovo do you think you're going to live in?

The people who presume to lead the Kosovo-Albanians are no better than common street thugs. Agim Ceku has written that "government comes from the muzzle of a gun". (UCK Communique No 78, signed by Agim Ceku, published by Kosovapress news agency web site 16 May 99)

You can try to blame Milosevic, but the UCK has stated the situation quite clearly: "The people of Kosova did not form their own liberation army for the
purpose of a social revolution or to oppose government with a national tinge, but they are carrying on a
struggle to be liberated from the century-old occupier. If you confuse these two things, this means that you are
making a mistake on purpose." (Communique No 78, signed by the chief of the UCK General Staff, Agim Ceku, published by Kosovapress news agency web site 16 May 99)

The UCK started a war against Serbia (a.k.a. "the century-old occupier"), not because they particularly opposed Milosevic's government, but because they wanted independence from Serbia regardless of the government in Belgrade.

This is why we are in the intractable position we're in today. There is no negotiating with the likes of Ceku and the UCK. They insist on independence and they're willing to start a war and kill as many people as it takes inorder to get it.

This isn't about Slobodan Milosevic, alleged Serbian war crimes or anything else.

It wouldn't have mattered who the president of Yugoslavia was in 1999. Gahndi could have been the presidnt, and the UCK still would have attacked.

The Albanians want Kosovo's independence because they feel like they were cheated by the outcome of the Balkan War when the Ottoman Empire signed the treaty returning Kosovo to Serbia after occupying it for 500 years.

Whatever Belgrade did or didn't do has no relevance to the Albanian separatists outside of propaganda value.

We should all have sympathy for those who lose loved ones in the war, but lets not pretend like Serbia started the war or that the Kosovo-Albanians were innocent victims of an aggression.

We should listen to the real Albanian arguement for Kosovo's independence (if they even have one), but all of this emotional posturing we've seen is garbage. The Albanians speak one way to Western ears and quite another way when they speak among themselves. None of the UCK statements I referenced were intended for Western consumption, they were exclusively published in the Albanian language by the Albanian media.

You uphold both principles Jack, by having the Albanians accept full autonomy from Belgrade. Independence has become a word beyond it's meaning here. It is a trophy case piece for the Albanians - a symbol for bragging rights. Obviously, the Albanian lobby has not been able to reach every US congressman. It's good to see an honest and sane opinion coming out of one of our (US) politicians. Let's sit back and watch the pro-Albanian forces try and discredit congressman Burton for his realistic views - something Washington has lacked since the creation of the special interest lobbyist.

Congressman Dan Burton is one of the most intelligent and respected members of the Republican Party and George Bush is a lightweight in comparison to Mr.Burton.Republicans will start listening to the intelligent members of their own party soon enough.Kosovo is of no importance to US national security but is important as not to inspire a hundred other violent separatist movements in the other 192 sovereign states.

Mr. Burton is just the beginning... in the next few weeks, more and more US Congressman and Senators will come forward and speak against Kosovo's independence. It was silly for the Albanians to think that just one man "Bush" could decide on his own to illegally unilaterally recognize Kosovo. Its over! It has been over since May 2007!

@ Jack - obviously you are not well versed in international law. In fact, since the end of WWII the principle of territorial integrity has trumped self-determination in all cases except militaery occupation (West Bank) or colonial occupation. Kosovo is not regarded as either - most obviously, 1244 states that it is Serb territory. So, in fact, if one must prevail it is territorial integrity. By the way, if you argue that it must be self-determination then I presume that you would have no problem allowing the Kosovo Serbs to exercise the same right and pursue partition? You can't have it both ways!

Niksala, adriano, teni, etc.

This is the begining of the end for your independence. This is US starting to back down because Serbia started to attack the legitimacy of NATO mission in Kosovo. They had no way to deffend the allience with arguments so they are now backing down.

Unilateral support

SERBIA support
-RUSSIA
-China
-Most EU countries (if not all)
-Now even some US Republicans

Albanians
-Bush (maybe) I mean he hasnt said anything in a long while
-England (possibly)

The matter of fact is that there is no need for independence. Absolutely NONE. US can keep Bondsteel within Serbia without independence and even if the Serbs join EU. But they will never be able to keep it if they unilaterally recognize Kosovo. All that matters is that this was the first major outspoken US politician against independence. There will be more.

Spot on Mr. Burton. Spot on. I am sure the proponents of greater albania are getting very, very nervous now. These words did not come from a Serb, but from an American with lots of influence. Like I have said, time is on the Serb's side. The tide is turning.

How did the Albanians become so pro-American when they were the most pro-China country in the world going as far as condemning the Soviet Union as being too western.If the US withdrws its support for Kosovo independence how much are Albanians going to love America then?I think the Taleban and Al-Qaeda liked us too in the 1980's when we were giving them arms and money to fight the Soviets.Not to mention Rumsfeld's trip to kiss the hand of Saddam Hussein when he invaded Iran.American policy must be based on the rule of law and not the whims of rulers.Shalom

Perhaps Mr. Burton is one of the few who has not been purchased by the Albanian illegal money or the Saudi oil money and describing things from a realistic perspective.

The Serbian churches built hundreds of years ago state that this land was Serbian and will remain Serbian. Just because a nationality doubled in population over the last 50 years, does not give them ownership of the land. Just because Albanians claim the land is theirs, there are no physical monuments to back it up. Kosovo has to remain Serbian, no matter how a purchased politician spins the situation.

Chris, what does your comment have to do with this article?? Anyway, what will finally make albanians see that Kosovo independence is not going to happen? Reps in the U.S. government are starting to realize the negative effects independence would have on the whole world...im just sitting back and loving it! Game over people, accept autonomy. CCCC

Chris Blaku wrote: "Serbia attempted to ethnically cleanse Kosova. Ten thousand Albanians were killed, most of whom were civilians. Serbia has had control over the province for a century, and its mismanagement has nearly bankrupted and indebted Kosova's rich mines. The population is indigenously the majority. The Kosovar Albanians have behaved more kindly to their Serbian compatriots than the Serbian Government behaved with them."

Chris, what you forget to mention is that Kosovo today is the most successfully ethnically cleansed region in the former Yugoslavia. I'm sure these 200 000 (mainly serbs) refugees are very grateful for your kind behavior.

@ adriano: "too little" allright, but are you sure (sure sure sure?) that it's "too late"?

Albanians, please comment on what congressman Burton said in the article. You are replying more to what I said, than what he did. There is a legitimate threat from criminal and terrorist elements in Kosovo. When a US congressman acknowledges this, why can't Albanians? Does it cast a dirty light on your image as the long suffering, abused minority? Or do you know more than a career US politician - who is not afraid to state the truth?

Where does this nonsense come from?

Chris Blaku and others. . .for the millionth time. . .according to U.N. reports, forensic specialists working under U.N auspices have exhumed 2,108 bodies from the Kosovo war -- not 100,000 not even 10,000 as you claim -- that include civilians and combatants, Albanians and Serbs.

The State Department does have a list for terrorist groups and individuals. There are 219 such entities covered by Executive Order 13224. The VAST majority of these groups and individuals are Mid-Eastern moslems -- vehement supporters and brethren to Kosovo Albanians, right Chris? Coincidentally, not one Serb group or individual appears on that list.

Chris, you're entitled to an opinion. . .just don't make stuff up. These disingenuous attempts to cover the truth are quite tiresome.

""Terrorist and organized crime influences, already rampant in Kosovo, would be granted a consolidated haven for their operations," Burton pointed out.

Burton warned that the independence of Kosovo might cause ethnic conflicts in neighboring regions with large ethnic Albanian populations, in Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and even in Greece, could flare up. " -

He sounds like somebody from Koshtunicas party!

Can you say COMPROMISE? We find ourselves again at a cross road, Serbs and Albanians alike...how do we take that step "together" in these uncharted waters? Do we continue spitting on each other as the world looks on with obviously impatient eyes and stomachs, or do we reach out finally to each other and make a better future for EACH community. As part of the collective human body, we certainly need to find a compromising solution...ya ya, I know, Albanians demand nothing less than independence, and Serbia suggests Autonomy, tell me something I don't know. Unfortunately, as a US citizen, it shames me to see our government bypassing the rules of international law in order to achieve it's grandiose plans and visions for the world...Scarry stuff. The masters continue to pull the strings, Russians and the United States...same game, different time and place. It's certainly is up to us to resolve our differences in discussions and to compromise, for compromise is what makes men noble, or else our destinies will be controlled by others. For once the ink on the paper dries, they can wipe their hands clean and walk away forever. We on the other hand remain, neighbors, faced with either co existence or mutual destruction. Albanians cannot deny the rights to Serbia, because Kosovo is their cradle of Serbia, our Jerusalem, whether Albanians like it or not...Albanians have legitimate concerns based on events which spiraled out of control in 1999, and they want seperation...its just simple facts which neither side can ignore any longer. Congressman Burton is absolutely correct, that WE need to find a solution that's acceptable to BOTH sides...like in any negotiation, you get some, you loose some. I certainly do hope and pray Kosovo finds peace and that truly each person may find salvation and hope....Let us not push each other as the Palestinians and Israelis have, a shameful example of people unwilling to compromise based on their inability to COMPROMISE.

do not worry,be happy!

independance is not a good think for serbia,ok.We will stay with you for...some years again and then

Keeping 2 millions albanians IN serbia is much more damageable in the next future for serbia than you think...
But don't worry,in or out,here we are again/and again and again you will have to deal with your albanain "minority"...

These comments come from a red blooded American that spent many years in the Balkans, and Kosovo, and viewed this issue from all sides, supported peoples on both sides when in need.

FIRST, I have to address ALBAN who's comments are definitely uneducated.
(1) NO EVIDENCE OF ORGANIZED CRIME. That is a laugh. Organized Crime in Kosovo is well documented. Albanian and Russian Mafia's have tremendous influence in areas such as Human Trafficing and Drugs among others. Research it if you think otherwise. That's for starters. (
2) Your statement...NO INTERNATIONAL FORCES INJURED BY THE LOCAL POPULATION.... Numerous International Peacekeepers have been intimidated, harrassed, shot at and missed and even shot and killed in Kosovo since 1999. THIS ALSO IS WELL DOCUMENTED...IE...ROAD TO PODEJEVO... a member of the Indian Police Contingent shot and killed among others. No less that 61 Peacekeepers were injured in the March 2004 Riots set off by Albanians falsely accusing Serbs of causing the deaths of 2 Albanian Youths, which was later found to be accidental and not ethnically related violence. Not to include the local injuries and more than 20 deaths of the local population, etc. WAKE UP...let's point out a few you can read for yourself on the internet news history...

Thursday, 26 July 2007
Albanian mafia shooting over parking meter scam in Blair's street.

Tuesday, 17 July 2007
Human trafficking ring broken in Kosovo, eight arrests made.

Wednesday, 25 April 2007
THE BALKANS: THE SOFT UNDERBELLY OF THE EUROPEAN NARCOTICS.

Wednesday, 14 March 2007
High-ranking Kosovo officials arrested for graft

Wednesday, 14 March 2007
KOSOVO: PREMIER’S AID DETAINED FOR SUSPECTED MONEY LAUNDERING.

Thursday, 4 January 2007
Opinion poll shows Energy Ministry "most corrupt" in Kosovo government.

Thursday, 21 December 2006
Kosovo police arrest high-ranking officials suspected of gunrunning.

Monday, 18 December 2006
Challenges persist in Kosovo's criminal justice system, OSCE Mission says.
Monday, 18 December 2006
Albanian police seize 5 kg of narcotics smuggled in from Kosovo.
Monday, 28 August 2006
Kosovo Albanian mafia takes over world drug market - Serbian daily.

MANY MANY MORE.......

Reserch the internet for these

Does it matter that the Albanian extremists hurt inocent grandmothers, grandfathers, and children going about their own business walking down the streets of Kosove such as Lipjan, Obilic and many others. Milosovic was a problem (he is gone), does this justify such terror.

This cannot be a one sided argument. I've personally seen abuses on both Albanian and Serbian sides, and have friends on both sides.

Imagine the United Nations or any Country declaring a portion of the United States Independent from the US...give me a break...

What is good for one, is good for all. (R) Dan Burton is correct and the US Congress and America should wake up. Serbs although not perfect, now have a democracy. Kosovo is a part of Serbia and resolution 1244 provides for the return of Serbian Forces. Certainly the Serbian population deserves protection. UCK...KLA...KPC or any other name you put on it, is not concerned in the least about the protection of the Serbian people.

Serbians, like any other poplulation are people just like most decent people around the world. It is the extremist, self centered individuals out for personal gain that mess things up. Many Albanian and Serbians care for each other, lived together for years, danced together and miss a normal life. How can it be normal when extremist pray upon the youth, enrage them, and encourage them to protest and destroy personal property and injure others.

I have to say, the biggest advocate for the Albanian Independence of Kosovo is the IGNORANCE OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AND CONGRESS.

The biggest beneficiaries are the Albanian extremists..not the normal Albanian on the street.

Thank you (R) Dan Burton..

Serbia attempted to ethnically cleanse Kosova. Ten thousand Albanians were killed, most of whom were civilians. Serbia has had control over the province for a century, and its mismanagement has nearly bankrupted and indebted Kosova's rich mines. The population is indigenously the majority. The Kosovar Albanians have behaved more kindly to their Serbian compatriots than the Serbian Government behaved with them. Serbia started four wars in a decade. Contrary to popular Serbian opinion, the people supported these wars and their president. As per claims of Kosovar terrorism against the US, the Albanians are known to be the most pro-American population in the world. Additionally, Serbia has more names on the State Department's list of terrorists (over two dozen) than Kosova (who has one).

So what exactly is your claim for Kosova?

Years of lobbying by the Serb Diaspora in the US has as its glorious achievemtn an article in the Washington Post by an anonymous memer of the Republican Party. You guys still have a lot to learn it seems. And I won't even bother to write a list of all the pro-Albanian politicians in the US, but it would make Mr. Burton look very lonely, wouldn't it?

svojgazda

the thing is that you cannot 'have' albanians accept autonomy, since we never will accept, even if US says that we should.

I'm amazed as to how some people fail to understand that albanians will never ever accept anything less that independence from Serbia. Now that should be the starting point for any status solution, or discussion.

The best that Serbia can hope for is partition.

As far as autonomy is concered, thanks for being 'generous', but no thanks!

And to people that suggest that the only reason why 99% of american politicians support independecnce , is because they received money from albanian lobbist, what European politicians? Most of European countries support Ahtisaaris plan - supervised independnce, are you saying that these lobbyists paid all the politicians of Europe as well? I wonder how much Sarkozy received? maybe Ahtisaari gave him some of his $40 million share that he 'received' from albanians!!! Its ridicuolous.

I wish THERE WAS such a strong, powerful, albanian lobby that could influence the politicts of USA and Europe, but I'm afraid there is not, and what we are witnessing here is some symptoms of the 'disease' that Montgomery discribed, about how serbs like to blame and attack anyone for the problems that they have caused themselves, and this is part of that never eding mythical story about how the whole world is out to get the poor innocent serbs!

finaly the serb lobbyists words in a senators lips. too little too late. American politics is a complicated business! To little to late serbian serbian lobby donors.

Oh this is great news! It's about time that an american tells the truth about the problem with albanian terrorists in KiM!!!

I am curious, can someone tell me when america is going to put uck back on the terrorist list???

Keeping 2 millions albanians IN serbia is much more damageable in the next future for serbia than you think...
But don't worry,in or out,here we are again/and again and again you will have to deal with your albanain "minority"...
(lili, 20. August 2007 18:04)


I do not worry, Lili, and you don´t have no reason at all to be cynical since the demographic "explosion" of the Albanians is the cornerstone of their decline, you do not see it yet, but that time will come.

as for the article, it´s interesting, first B92 publishes an article about some allegedly "inconvenient truths" and now something that is uncomfortable for the Albanians to swallow.

seems as if B92 just wants to create a virtual climate for arguing against each other.

I would only say that if this is true, it could be first step towards sobering within the american political class.

we will see what future brings, but one thing seems clear, this is something the Albanians here didn´t like to read, ...since it must have been paid for as they claim.

they don´t even pretend to think about the content of Mr.Burtons words.

INTERNATIONAL LAW, guys..

what is so difficult about it, that you simply do not get the message?
again...
let´s see what future brings.

i am admiring the senator and his education very high velues and respectfull person
i hope he is runing for president .thank you

To all those who are arguing about Self-determination and Territorial Integrity principles. It doesn't matter who is right. As long as same priciple applies to all.
In Croatia and Bosnia, Territorial Integrity, no Self-Determination. In Serbia Self-Determination, no Territorial Integrity. How come?

The Albanian lobby has been at it for decades and there is simply no way Serbia can counter the inffulence they have established in Washington.
(Nick, 20. August 2007 19:58)


well, do you wanna say that the Albanians are lobbying in the USA far longer/ than ( before )Milošević came into power? so that would mean you admit that your goal was always the creation of a greater Albania, like those of the socalled "Prizren League" planned to do?

hope they did their lobbying as properly as you wrote that comment, otherwise your "inffulence" would be tending towards zero.

bottomline: don´t worry, Serbia is coming back, at all levels. but this time it´s a democratic country, too bad for the Albanian legend of being "victims".

dear svojgazda, "It's good to see an honest and sane opinion coming out of one of our (US) politicians."
how naive can you get.
the institute of Balkan Study s is the laughable thing here.

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. No one except the most pro-Albanian lobby-recipients in the US supports unilateral independence. Those on the negotiating team today have voiced their unqualified commitment to avoid anything smacking of "unilateralism" at all costs. This would be bad for Serbia, but worse for Albanians as most Euopean support would immediately evaporate and much US support would be whiddled away in Congress.

The back and forth over the merits of Rep. Burton is redundant too. He says something critical of independence, the Albanians are all over him, while the Serbs praise him for an apparent turning of the tide. His opinions are about as meaninfgul and effective as Rep. Lantos. Neither of them are on the negotiating team, and neither of them have had any direct input in the final status solution of Kosovo.

The only people that seemingly put any stock in unilateralism seem to be people who make comments here. I seriously hope, for both Serbs and Albanians' sakes that it doesn't happen in real life.

Terrorist and organised crime influences, already rampant in Kosovo, would be granted a consolidated haven for their operations," Burton pointed out.
Someone need to explain to this guy that we are talking about Kosovo here, not IRAQ.....
There is no evidence of the organised crime in Kosovo, never mind the Terrorist. I did not read anything new from this guy that i have not read it before from the Serb propaganda. Not even a strength of evidence!!
Is this guy aware that there are thousand of American and European soldier in Kosovo and not one off them is been victim or injured by the local population?
Is he aware that the Albanians are fighting terrorism with the American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan? And does he know about the Guantanamo prisoners problem and the very effective help that the Albanians give to this problem?
As an american, does he remember how "gentle" where the serbs soldier with the capture american solders during the conflict in 1999?
Does he know that his country is mos hated in Serbia than in Iran?
Everyone is entitled to his opinion and of course will be people (even so call politician) that through ignorance and manipulation will be oppose to the independence of Kosovo.
However, in the end a decision need to be make and i doubt that this guy opinion will be considered.
I believe that not even an intelligent Serb will get his opinion seriously.

Thank you, Republican Dan Burton for restoring some of my faith back into American foreign policy, which still has some way to go.
I am looking forward to a lot more support coming from Washington over the next few weeks, respecting Serbia's sovereign territory and working through the ethnic Albanians concerns for self-governance.
It is unthinkable that Serbia give 15%(percent) of its territory to an ethnic Albanian minority.

Cvele, couldn't have said it better myself.

To the invaders of KosovO - aside from your caddy references of the past years/decades & centuries, what do you have to say about today?

to Mr. "COMPROMISE" - why should we compromise? KosovO was invaded - can you say that?

To Joe:
“As a result of the [Trianon] treaty about 3,5 million Hungarians were forced to become citizens of newly created artificial countries like Yougoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Greater-Romania”.
Well, I shall refer only to my country, which you call “artificial”. Vast majority of Transilvania inhabitants were always Romanians, outnumbering Hungarians. We are the original inhabitants of Transilvania (Romanized Dacians) not the Hungarians who came in as Huns in 9th and 10th centuries. Anyway, now doesn’t matter anymore, everybody is enjoying EU and NATO, in both Hungary and Romania. The Hungarians today are no more than 19% in Transilvania alone, and no more than 7% in entire Romania (and a lot of them live in Bucharest…). But their small poliyical party is in the Romanian Govt., by the way...
Even Hungarian historians are admitting that at the time of Trianon, the ethnic Romanians were absolute majority in the province, and that besides Hungarians, they were a lot of Germans. The demands of Budapest, at that time, were justified by “cultural superiority” and other stupid things like that. Your idea “If self-determination would have been allowed on the whole territory of Greater Hungary than today Hungary would be twice as big with a population of about 16-17 millions” would maybe work in some parts of the “Greater Hungary”, but not in Transilvania… Not to mention that the “Greater Hungary” would have been populated as much as 50 percent by other populations than Hungarians. And yes, in the case of Transilvania, the borderline were designed exactly on the ethnic lines, but Hungarians preferred always to live in central part of the province, especially in cities [as “culturally superior’, they would say] being separated from Hungary by large territories inhabited by Romanians – the same Romanians who for centuries were denied recognition, their religion (Orthodox Christianity) and language (Latin) being suppressed or barely tolerated. This is way Romanian in Transilvania were getting Latin-origin names at birth, in order no to be Hungarized (if you were baptized George, you would be considered by Hungarian administration as Gyorgy, the Mihail will be transcribed Mihaly and so fort, but for Silvian, Laurian or Tiberiu, there was not much to do…) So, instead of having 4 to 5 millions of Romanians in Hungary, under oppression, Trianon Treaty put one million Hungarians in Romania (and they are still Romanians outside the western border of the country, especially around the city of Gyula). And they were suffering during Communist as much as we Romanians, and after Communism we went together in EU, as equal citizens of a free country.
As about self determination, of which you graciously give the example of Croats in Sopron area, please see this quote from wikipedia.org (sorry for long quote, but you stated that “The opinion of the [Hungarian “lost” territories] inhabitants was completely disregarded”):
“Since the Austro-Hungarian empire had begun to disintegrate after the end of the First World War, the nationalities living inside proclaimed their independence from the empire. The 1,228-member National Assembly of Romanians of Transylvania and Hungary, headed by leaders of Transylvania's Romanian National Party and Social Democratic Party, passed a resolution calling for unification of all Romanians in a single state on 1 December in Alba Iulia. This was approved by the National Council of the Germans from Transylvania and the Council of the Danube Swabians from the Banat, on 15 December in Mediaº. In response, the Hungarian General Assembly of Cluj reaffirmed the loyalty of Hungarians from Transylvania to Hungary on December 22, 1918. The Treaty of Versailles placed Transylvania under the sovereignty of Romania, an ally of the Triple Entente, and after the defeat in 1919 of Béla Kun's Hungarian Soviet Republic by the Romanian army, the Treaties of St. Germain (1919) and Trianon (signed in June 1920) further elaborated the status of Transylvania and defined the new border between the states of Hungary and Romania.”
I rest my case. And to all people on the forum: Transilvania is an example for Kosovo, Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo should only hope that they will acquire some day the cooperation and tolerance Romanians and Hungarians and Germans in Transilvania are enjoying today.
Best,
George

who is Dan Barton?
"Serbian Voice in Washington
The Administrative Committee of the US House of Representatives has formally approved the establishment of an informal “Serbian caucus,” the SCG Embassy in Washington announced yesterday. According to Vecernje Novosti, the bipartisan group will present and explain to the Congress issues connected to the political, economic and security climate in Serbia and the Balkans. The group will be chaired jointly by Republican Congressman Dan Barton and Democrat Rham Emanuel"

to Karl Christopherson,

thanks for providing those sources, I was writing it a dozen times until I realized that Albanians ( at least those who write here on a regular basis ) do not even care whether it is true at all what they post.
all they got is accusations and threats
since the Albanians have no moral, legal or any other right whatsoever to claim Kosovo their own...they are reduced to those low-level arguments and threats.


...first it was "Russia will back down before the one and only global superpower"... then, "we will declare independence right after the meeting of Mr.Putin and Mr.Bush" and...now they are boring all others to death with their newest "dead-line"

let´s see what future brings.

Jovan,

Your ability to misunderstand others here continues to amaze me. In your comment above you somehow conclude that i was saying the Albanian Lobby has been at it since before Milosevic came to power, when the only thing I said was “they have been at it for decades”.

Your interpretations are quite frankly ridiculous and the cynicism with which you refer to a typing mistake i made “inffulence” shows precisely why i, like many other Kosova Albanians will never agree to have your kind rule Kosova again.

The solution "must be consistent with accepted international principles, including guarantees of both the territorial integrity of states as well as of human rights and self-determination." Burton said
Mr Burton doesn't know what he's talking about.
In this case territorial integrity is in conflict with self-determination.
How do you uphold both principles at the same time?
One of these two must prevail and that is self-determination

Thanks god that someone support Serbia, I just wonder how much did Kostunica and Co paid for such statement.
Burton who?

Finally Serb diaspora found someone to tell US department that Independence is a terrible idea. Sorry mate but you are out of touch. Everything is being prepared for a Independence US and EU is with Kosova and with Serbia too ,but not with Milosevic Serbia. Kosova is lost forever. Don’t be misled, I am talking about the Supervised Independence proposed by Mr.Ahtisari.
Good news for Serbs in diasopra.: In coming Kosova election Serbs have declared that they are going to participate.
This is what we want, society in which we all work together for our future

Like adriano said, too little too late. The Albanian lobby has been at it for decades and there is simply no way Serbia can counter the inffulence they have established in Washington.

# Serbia attempted to ethnically cleanse Kosova. Ten thousand Albanians were killed, most of whom were civilians. Serbia has had control over the province for a century, and its mismanagement has nearly bankrupted and indebted Kosova's rich mines. The population is indigenously the majority. The Kosovar Albanians have behaved more kindly to their Serbian compatriots than the Serbian Government behaved with them. Serbia started four wars in a decade. Contrary to popular Serbian opinion, the people supported these wars and their president. As per claims of Kosovar terrorism against the US, the Albanians are known to be the most pro-American population in the world. Additionally, Serbia has more names on the State Department's list of terrorists (over two dozen) than Kosova (who has one).

So what exactly is your claim for Kosova?
(Chris Blaku, 20. August 2007 16:59)

Chris I could have no said it better myself, I believe you are an American, as I.

-120
1389 = lie
independence = yes
12:44 it's time to move forward

Anybody living in America knows that Rahm Emanuel is in the A+ league of American politics and is the reason the Democrats won the House and Senate in the last election.All the people of Illinois are proud that Rahm Emanuel from our home state single-handedly sets the agenda of the Democratic Party.Shalom

Well Joe, that's certainly part of the story, but not all of it. Yes, "Vojvodina" at the time would not have been added to Hungary since Hungary was being carved up at Trianon. Vojvodina was seemingly a present to the Serbs for their efforts in the Allied campaign during the war. You might also remember that the intellectual and economic heartland of Serbs in the Balkans was in Vojvodina, not Belgrade. Serbia's intellectual elite attended lyceums and universities in Novi Sad, Sremski Karlovci, and Temesvar. Yet Serbs lived alongside Hungarians, Croats, Germans, Rusyns, etc. Sometimes well, sometimes tenuously. Late Hapsburg efforts to Magyarize Hungarian dominions pushed Serbs in Vojvodina closer to Belgrade, yet it was in Vojvodina's academic circles, along with Serbs and Croats of Dalmatia that the "Yugoslav" idea came about. For all its multiethnic makeup, "Hapsburg Serbia" as some called it, was attached to Monarchical Serbia after 1918, but even many Serbs living there resented the new centralizing policies of Belgrade.

I'm not so much arguing with you, as I'm adding more information to what you've already provided.

Finally !!!! An American politician with some common sense.

Karl Christopherson, your post was more than interesting. Great depth, I never looked at it from that angle.

As we can see not everyone is taking the bait in Kosovo. 1 Republican Senator is not so sure and the Democrats have not said anything yet. Now i am not sure, but i think there are other thing being discussed. I am sure Mr Ahmet will chime in sooner or later. Terrible things happen in combat and there is no such thing as a unequal battle either you choose to fight in a bad situation or just plain dumb. I feel sorry for those who have died during this conflict. I am hoping for cooler heads. Thanks to B92 for allowing constructive critism. P.S. can you please delete duplicate post that some participants are making. Thanks

Here is a list of Serbian Caucus in US Congress.

http://www.serbianunity.net/projects/Information/caucus/index.html

In the coming weeks we'll hear more of this kind of rethoric on Kosovo Independence issue.
Thank God these guys are NOT the A ligue of Us Congressional Caucases.

Jack,

How can you say that "Serbs got Vojvodina through self-determination from Austria-Hungary" ??? There was absolutely no vote of the inhabitants, no self-determination. Mostly the French decided about the new borders of Hungary by imposing the treaty of Trianon. It was a purely political decision. The opinion of the inhabitants was completely disregarded. Today the same thing would not be possible. As a result of the treaty about 3,5 million Hungarians were forced to become citizens of newly created artificial countries like Yougoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Greater-Romania. The only place, where self-determination was allowed is the city of Sopron and some 16 villages on the Austro-Hungarian border. They all opted for Hungary. What was really touching for the Hungarians is the fact that many of those villages were and still are inhabited by Croatians. If self-determination would have been allowed on the whole territory of Greater Hungary than today Hungary would be twice as big with a population of about 16-17 millions. Entire regions with 80-90% Hungarian population like South-west Slovakia, Northern-Bacska in today's Vojvodina or the Western part of Karpato-Ukraine were detached from Hungary to make the new states economically more viable or simply because of an important rail-road line that the French wanted to give to the new country.
Instead of drowing the new borders on the ethnic lines - what would have been right with the Hungarians - those borders were created purely artificialy to favor the neighboring countries. So Jack think about how lucky you were at the beginning of the XX century. You got presents like Vojvodina and Kosovo. But in today's world, where self-determination also counts time is catching up with you.

Rep. Dan Burton - HAHA, this is a joke right? He has no idea...i think he is still living in the world where slavery exits and women are not allowed to vote. I think he is the only politician that we shouldn't be worried. He doesn't know anything about human rights, so he is not entitled to talk about Kosovo. Hope you can find a picture of him with a African American, or any minority in USA.

Cvele, what do you mean the US can keep Bondsteel within Serbia? Come on, that's a slap on the face to the Russians. That was their (US) whole purpose, not the albanians. Now you want to appease the enemy. If it wern't for the Russians, Kosovo would've been long gone. Now you want the US breathing down the Russian's back. I appreciated all of your comments in the past, but your really off the mark on this one!

"Rep. Dan Burton - HAHA, this is a joke right? He has no idea...i think he is still living in the world where slavery exits and women are not allowed to vote. I think he is the only politician that we shouldn't be worried. He doesn't know anything about human rights, so he is not entitled to talk about Kosovo."

Urban, this sounds exactly like what albanians are doing in Kosovo...hmm!!!

(Karl Christopherson, 20. August 2007 22:52)

Karl I do appreciate you spelling my name correctly and trying to come up with the sources. I am not sure where you found these sources but great.

You're whole argument is that UCK started the war. The way this war started was when the serbian police were looking for Adem Jashari.

Here is how the rest goes (wikipedia):

"He (Adem Jashari) was killed in March 9, 1998 in an unequal battle with the Yugoslav Special Forces in his home village along with more over 50 of his relatives (men, women and children) whose corpses were defaced by the the troops.[1]"

Basically the serbian police didn't find Adem Jashari in his house or his relatives houses so they took the liberty to massacre 50 members of his family (nearly all of the JASHARI family), kids, women, anything.

The Kosovars didn't from the beginning support UCK but when you have things like that, people do tend to support a group of liberators who want to stop this injustice. This kind of thing has been happening for years, but not 50 at a time.

That's all I have to say.

Jim
@ Jack - obviously you are not well versed in international law. In fact, since the end of WWII the principle of territorial integrity has trumped self-determination in all cases except militaery occupation (West Bank) or colonial occupation. Kosovo is not regarded as either - most obviously, 1244 states that it is Serb territory. So, in fact, if one must prevail it is territorial integrity. By the way, if you argue that it must be self-determination then I presume that you would have no problem allowing the Kosovo Serbs to exercise the same right and pursue partition? You can't have it both ways!
Ok then explain to me why Bangladesh and Pskistan seceded from India because they weren't India's colonies. The same goes for Eritrea and East Timor.
North Kosovo Serbs seceding from Kosovo seems perfectly right as does Presevo Valley Albanians seceding from Serbia.

svojgazda
Serbs got Vojvodina through self-determination from Austria-Hungary
Why shouldn't Albanians benefit from the same principle?
Or maybe you would have preferred Vojvodina to stay within Hungary as an autonomous province. I doubt it

Coincidentally, not one Serb group or individual appears on that list. "

Of course they're not on the list. So, explain to us how 71 serbian war criminals were arrested in arizona and chicago and atlanta last year and most were deported or on trial now?
Oh btw, not being on the list of terrorists still didn't stop Nato from bombing serbia for 78 days...

FYI--Tom Lantos is still chairman of the foreign relations committee. :))

To Christoferson,
you said: "This isn't about Slobodan Milosevic, alleged Serbian war crimes or anything else.
Are you even thinking that Slobodan was falsely acussed. So, poor guy, the all Balkans war were only fiction because their had a common author, Miloscevic.
Then you continue: "
It wouldn't have mattered who the president of Yugoslavia was in 1999. ".
You are only partly true. There was a very long time that the rage of Kosova people was fermented and creating its critical mass.
You said: " Gahndi could have been the presidnt, and the UCK still would have attacked". In fact for se several years Kosova tried the Ghandi way of paceful resistance under the leadership of Rugova. The outcome was quite the contrary. The Albanians of Kosova left without any means to have a decent life were denied to learn even their language. So, this critical mass of rage was translated in revolt by Miloscevic who was under the way of destructing the neighbour states as Croatia and B&H for the sake of his halucinant ideas that Serbs existence is complete uncompatible with the existence of other sorrounded neighbours. Consequently, his crimes and mass graves are there.
In this context Miloscevic was the indispensable glue to make the Kosova people realize that it was the high time to fight for their indipendence. Miloscevic engaged in Kosova besides army and police, the paramilitary troops, heavily contributing in criminilizing the Serb society at a large scaleIts state is seen as a deadly enemy as it killed merciless the civilians. Also the Serbian society after Miloscevic era didn't even try to take a conciliatory stance towards the people of Kosova, quite the contrary.
Henceforth, it would be nonsense to ask them to to return under Serbia, as now the people of Kosova is in Freedom for 8 years.

You said: "The Albanians want Kosovo's independence because they feel like they were cheated by the outcome of the Balkan War when the Ottoman Empire signed the treaty returning Kosovo to Serbia after occupying it for 500 years".
Do you realise now how unfounded was your above mentioned statement.
You asked: " We should listen to the real Albanian arguement for Kosovo's independence...."
Don't you think that these arguments are more than enough for a nation to be free and indipendent?

This latest article by Dan Burton should not come as a surprise to anyone. Mr. Bruton is a long standing supporter of Serbia and has been participating in many events to promote Serbia's claim to Kosova.

Certainly, Serbia too has its supporters, but not nearly enough to shift the balance of infulence in Washington.

To Karl Christopherson,
First of all Mr. Karl nobody is trying to negate the fact that we want, and always have wanted independence. Yes, independence is our goal but for completely valid reasons.
Second, Kosovo was never Serbian nor Ottoman land. Now it you say that it was occupied again right after the empire left, that is different.
You claim that UCK started the war. And that is true again, nobody denies it. But it was preceded by actions of the then police forces and their repressive methods against everything that was Alabanian.
KLA was a handful of people in the begining, but after more than 40.000 Serbian troops were deployed to Kosovo with heavy artillery and other modern weaponry, things changed rapidly. They did not distinguish between civillians (children, women, old people or simply non-combatants)and the rebel force but treated every single Albanian as an UCK rebel.
To put it mildly sir, you are either ignorant of the facts, or are extremely biased.
You say "This isn't about SM, alleged Serbian war crimes or anything else"
Your ALLEGED war crimes have been proven beyond any doubt by ICTY.
Then again you say: "Whatever Belgrade did or didn't do has no relevance to the Albanian separatists outside of propaganda value"
So according to you evrything is about propaganda???
To be truly honest with you I would not respond at all to a post like yours, but it is outragious the way you dissmis the misfortune of the two peoples and their victims during the war in Kosovo. Just writing about sympathy does not mean it is all right to hurt the feelings of people who lost their loved ones in Kosovo (both Serbs and Albanians) because there is nothing in this world that will ease their pain for their loved ones.

Kalr Krisftofer

Another views of many about the Kosova form someone that has no clue were Kosova is never mind the reality now and them.
You can say whatever you like about KLA but for Kosovar people they are the protectors from the Serbian regime forces.

Ted

Your posting hold many true things. Some of K-Albanians are involved in organised crime, but tell me who in Balkans is not. Serb gangs are most famous in Europe for this kind of activities. If you watch news in Serbia then you will see what organised crime is, what corruption is, so mate wake up and watch both sides before you say something.

You have presented crime report from Kosova but you have forgotten to look at the other side, Serbia. Serbia crime report would be worst to start with.

Then you say that Numerous International Peacekeepers have been intimidated, harassed, shot at and missed and even shot and killed in Kosovo since 1999, I believe that you are talking about the police hurt and especially intimidated in Mitrovica, Zveçan, Gracanica by Serbs.i.e polish Special forces

Ted,
You write this:"FIRST, I have to address ALBAN who's comments are definitely uneducated."
I am amazed that you can come up with this kind off claims.I am not going to get personal here because i don't think this will help you understand the issue.
Bringing in here peace of articles from the Serbian tabloid and try to make them sound as evidence is ridiculous.
Please bring real evidence of the so call "mafia" in Kosovo. Please bring the kind of evidence that we got for the Italian mafia. Fill free to quote any international or local anti-mafia agencies. Or best, please fill free to quote any international crime agencies that officially rule in Kosovo.
Sadly you don't do that, but always assume that a common crime must be linked with "mafia" because there are Albanian's.
It may be that you got a problem to find the deference between a tabloid article and the officially guidance's.
As for you other ridiculous claim off the Albanian's injuring the foreign troops you need to understand that when a confrontation happens between the police and the people, will be injured to both parts.
Does that mean that the people there hate or try to attack the foreign troops? Absolutely not.
This things happen everywhere, even in Serbia it self, however you choose to ignore this in the hope that your comment can make some sense.

joe
Jack,

How can you say that "Serbs got Vojvodina through self-determination from Austria-Hungary" ??? There was absolutely no vote of the inhabitants, no self-determination. Mostly the French decided about the new borders of Hungary by imposing the treaty of Trianon. It was a purely political decision. The opinion of the inhabitants was completely disregarded. Today the same thing would not be possible. As a result of the treaty about 3,5 million Hungarians were forced to become citizens of newly created artificial countries like Yougoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Greater-Romania. The only place, where self-determination was allowed is the city of Sopron and some 16 villages on the Austro-Hungarian border. They all opted for Hungary. What was really touching for the Hungarians is the fact that many of those villages were and still are inhabited by Croatians. If self-determination would have been allowed on the whole territory of Greater Hungary than today Hungary would be twice as big with a population of about 16-17 millions. Entire regions with 80-90% Hungarian population like South-west Slovakia, Northern-Bacska in today's Vojvodina or the Western part of Karpato-Ukraine were detached from Hungary to make the new states economically more viable or simply because of an important rail-road line that the French wanted to give to the new country.
Instead of drowing the new borders on the ethnic lines - what would have been right with the Hungarians - those borders were created purely artificialy to favor the neighboring countries. So Jack think about how lucky you were at the beginning of the XX century. You got presents like Vojvodina and Kosovo. But in today's world, where self-determination also counts time is catching up with you.
(Joe, 20. August 2007 19:42)
Vojvodina (part of Hungary, Hungary-one of the entities Austria-Hungary) had a Serbian majority. I don't know about Northern Bacska but West Banat for instance had a Serbian majority. The principle of self-determination of that Serbian majority was taken into account when France, England and the other major victorious countries of world war one awarded Serbia Vojvodina. They didn't had a referendum organized since that wasn't necessary.
Kosovo is to Serbia what Vojvodina was to Hungary. Kosovo is a part of Serbia, one of the entities of former Yugoslavia with no Serbian majority, contigous to Albania.
Vojvodina was a part of Hungary, one of the entities of Austria-Hungary, with no Hungarian majority, contigous to Serbia.

Nicities of diplomacy sometimes is not enough, given the situation that arrises. Independence - whether or not certain nations agree with it - in this case is a necessity.

This is not a surprise at all! Dan Burton has been against Kosova's Independence since the times of Milosevic! Only now that he managed to publish an article in Washington Post. Great achievement Dan! Most of the failed politicians do turn into Newspaper columnists.

This is not a first time that B92 is not publishing my article. maybe this wouldnt be published either but anyway i m gona write. All i wrote was about Millosheviq Regime and Criminals who fought for 20 years all over ballkans and now are hiding in Serbia and you are protecting them, also i can tell than B92 is censuring the reality things and is giving some people who doesn't have a clue oppurtunity to give their coments. This is not fair and you shouldn't pretend than you are a democratic media because you are not.

Serbia attempted to ethnically cleanse Kosova. Ten thousand Albanians were killed, most of whom were civilians. Serbia has had control over the province for a century, and its mismanagement has nearly bankrupted and indebted Kosova's rich mines. The population is indigenously the majority. The Kosovar Albanians have behaved more kindly to their Serbian compatriots than the Serbian Government behaved with them. Serbia started four wars in a decade. Contrary to popular Serbian opinion, the people supported these wars and their president. As per claims of Kosovar terrorism against the US, the Albanians are known to be the most pro-American population in the world. Additionally, Serbia has more names on the State Department's list of terrorists (over two dozen) than Kosova (who has one).

So what exactly is your claim for Kosova?

""Terrorist and organized crime influences, already rampant in Kosovo, would be granted a consolidated haven for their operations," Burton pointed out.

Burton warned that the independence of Kosovo might cause ethnic conflicts in neighboring regions with large ethnic Albanian populations, in Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and even in Greece, could flare up. " -

He sounds like somebody from Koshtunicas party!

The solution "must be consistent with accepted international principles, including guarantees of both the territorial integrity of states as well as of human rights and self-determination." Burton said
Mr Burton doesn't know what he's talking about.
In this case territorial integrity is in conflict with self-determination.
How do you uphold both principles at the same time?
One of these two must prevail and that is self-determination

svojgazda

the thing is that you cannot 'have' albanians accept autonomy, since we never will accept, even if US says that we should.

I'm amazed as to how some people fail to understand that albanians will never ever accept anything less that independence from Serbia. Now that should be the starting point for any status solution, or discussion.

The best that Serbia can hope for is partition.

As far as autonomy is concered, thanks for being 'generous', but no thanks!

And to people that suggest that the only reason why 99% of american politicians support independecnce , is because they received money from albanian lobbist, what European politicians? Most of European countries support Ahtisaaris plan - supervised independnce, are you saying that these lobbyists paid all the politicians of Europe as well? I wonder how much Sarkozy received? maybe Ahtisaari gave him some of his $40 million share that he 'received' from albanians!!! Its ridicuolous.

I wish THERE WAS such a strong, powerful, albanian lobby that could influence the politicts of USA and Europe, but I'm afraid there is not, and what we are witnessing here is some symptoms of the 'disease' that Montgomery discribed, about how serbs like to blame and attack anyone for the problems that they have caused themselves, and this is part of that never eding mythical story about how the whole world is out to get the poor innocent serbs!

finaly the serb lobbyists words in a senators lips. too little too late. American politics is a complicated business! To little to late serbian serbian lobby donors.

# Serbia attempted to ethnically cleanse Kosova. Ten thousand Albanians were killed, most of whom were civilians. Serbia has had control over the province for a century, and its mismanagement has nearly bankrupted and indebted Kosova's rich mines. The population is indigenously the majority. The Kosovar Albanians have behaved more kindly to their Serbian compatriots than the Serbian Government behaved with them. Serbia started four wars in a decade. Contrary to popular Serbian opinion, the people supported these wars and their president. As per claims of Kosovar terrorism against the US, the Albanians are known to be the most pro-American population in the world. Additionally, Serbia has more names on the State Department's list of terrorists (over two dozen) than Kosova (who has one).

So what exactly is your claim for Kosova?
(Chris Blaku, 20. August 2007 16:59)

Chris I could have no said it better myself, I believe you are an American, as I.

-120
1389 = lie
independence = yes
12:44 it's time to move forward

Finally Serb diaspora found someone to tell US department that Independence is a terrible idea. Sorry mate but you are out of touch. Everything is being prepared for a Independence US and EU is with Kosova and with Serbia too ,but not with Milosevic Serbia. Kosova is lost forever. Don’t be misled, I am talking about the Supervised Independence proposed by Mr.Ahtisari.
Good news for Serbs in diasopra.: In coming Kosova election Serbs have declared that they are going to participate.
This is what we want, society in which we all work together for our future

Years of lobbying by the Serb Diaspora in the US has as its glorious achievemtn an article in the Washington Post by an anonymous memer of the Republican Party. You guys still have a lot to learn it seems. And I won't even bother to write a list of all the pro-Albanian politicians in the US, but it would make Mr. Burton look very lonely, wouldn't it?

Thanks god that someone support Serbia, I just wonder how much did Kostunica and Co paid for such statement.
Burton who?

svojgazda
Serbs got Vojvodina through self-determination from Austria-Hungary
Why shouldn't Albanians benefit from the same principle?
Or maybe you would have preferred Vojvodina to stay within Hungary as an autonomous province. I doubt it

do not worry,be happy!

independance is not a good think for serbia,ok.We will stay with you for...some years again and then

Keeping 2 millions albanians IN serbia is much more damageable in the next future for serbia than you think...
But don't worry,in or out,here we are again/and again and again you will have to deal with your albanain "minority"...

Here is a list of Serbian Caucus in US Congress.

http://www.serbianunity.net/projects/Information/caucus/index.html

In the coming weeks we'll hear more of this kind of rethoric on Kosovo Independence issue.
Thank God these guys are NOT the A ligue of Us Congressional Caucases.

Like adriano said, too little too late. The Albanian lobby has been at it for decades and there is simply no way Serbia can counter the inffulence they have established in Washington.

You uphold both principles Jack, by having the Albanians accept full autonomy from Belgrade. Independence has become a word beyond it's meaning here. It is a trophy case piece for the Albanians - a symbol for bragging rights. Obviously, the Albanian lobby has not been able to reach every US congressman. It's good to see an honest and sane opinion coming out of one of our (US) politicians. Let's sit back and watch the pro-Albanian forces try and discredit congressman Burton for his realistic views - something Washington has lacked since the creation of the special interest lobbyist.

dear svojgazda, "It's good to see an honest and sane opinion coming out of one of our (US) politicians."
how naive can you get.
the institute of Balkan Study s is the laughable thing here.

Jim
@ Jack - obviously you are not well versed in international law. In fact, since the end of WWII the principle of territorial integrity has trumped self-determination in all cases except militaery occupation (West Bank) or colonial occupation. Kosovo is not regarded as either - most obviously, 1244 states that it is Serb territory. So, in fact, if one must prevail it is territorial integrity. By the way, if you argue that it must be self-determination then I presume that you would have no problem allowing the Kosovo Serbs to exercise the same right and pursue partition? You can't have it both ways!
Ok then explain to me why Bangladesh and Pskistan seceded from India because they weren't India's colonies. The same goes for Eritrea and East Timor.
North Kosovo Serbs seceding from Kosovo seems perfectly right as does Presevo Valley Albanians seceding from Serbia.

Jack,

How can you say that "Serbs got Vojvodina through self-determination from Austria-Hungary" ??? There was absolutely no vote of the inhabitants, no self-determination. Mostly the French decided about the new borders of Hungary by imposing the treaty of Trianon. It was a purely political decision. The opinion of the inhabitants was completely disregarded. Today the same thing would not be possible. As a result of the treaty about 3,5 million Hungarians were forced to become citizens of newly created artificial countries like Yougoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Greater-Romania. The only place, where self-determination was allowed is the city of Sopron and some 16 villages on the Austro-Hungarian border. They all opted for Hungary. What was really touching for the Hungarians is the fact that many of those villages were and still are inhabited by Croatians. If self-determination would have been allowed on the whole territory of Greater Hungary than today Hungary would be twice as big with a population of about 16-17 millions. Entire regions with 80-90% Hungarian population like South-west Slovakia, Northern-Bacska in today's Vojvodina or the Western part of Karpato-Ukraine were detached from Hungary to make the new states economically more viable or simply because of an important rail-road line that the French wanted to give to the new country.
Instead of drowing the new borders on the ethnic lines - what would have been right with the Hungarians - those borders were created purely artificialy to favor the neighboring countries. So Jack think about how lucky you were at the beginning of the XX century. You got presents like Vojvodina and Kosovo. But in today's world, where self-determination also counts time is catching up with you.

Terrorist and organised crime influences, already rampant in Kosovo, would be granted a consolidated haven for their operations," Burton pointed out.
Someone need to explain to this guy that we are talking about Kosovo here, not IRAQ.....
There is no evidence of the organised crime in Kosovo, never mind the Terrorist. I did not read anything new from this guy that i have not read it before from the Serb propaganda. Not even a strength of evidence!!
Is this guy aware that there are thousand of American and European soldier in Kosovo and not one off them is been victim or injured by the local population?
Is he aware that the Albanians are fighting terrorism with the American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan? And does he know about the Guantanamo prisoners problem and the very effective help that the Albanians give to this problem?
As an american, does he remember how "gentle" where the serbs soldier with the capture american solders during the conflict in 1999?
Does he know that his country is mos hated in Serbia than in Iran?
Everyone is entitled to his opinion and of course will be people (even so call politician) that through ignorance and manipulation will be oppose to the independence of Kosovo.
However, in the end a decision need to be make and i doubt that this guy opinion will be considered.
I believe that not even an intelligent Serb will get his opinion seriously.

Congressman Dan Burton is one of the most intelligent and respected members of the Republican Party and George Bush is a lightweight in comparison to Mr.Burton.Republicans will start listening to the intelligent members of their own party soon enough.Kosovo is of no importance to US national security but is important as not to inspire a hundred other violent separatist movements in the other 192 sovereign states.

who is Dan Barton?
"Serbian Voice in Washington
The Administrative Committee of the US House of Representatives has formally approved the establishment of an informal “Serbian caucus,” the SCG Embassy in Washington announced yesterday. According to Vecernje Novosti, the bipartisan group will present and explain to the Congress issues connected to the political, economic and security climate in Serbia and the Balkans. The group will be chaired jointly by Republican Congressman Dan Barton and Democrat Rham Emanuel"

Rep. Dan Burton - HAHA, this is a joke right? He has no idea...i think he is still living in the world where slavery exits and women are not allowed to vote. I think he is the only politician that we shouldn't be worried. He doesn't know anything about human rights, so he is not entitled to talk about Kosovo. Hope you can find a picture of him with a African American, or any minority in USA.

Well Joe, that's certainly part of the story, but not all of it. Yes, "Vojvodina" at the time would not have been added to Hungary since Hungary was being carved up at Trianon. Vojvodina was seemingly a present to the Serbs for their efforts in the Allied campaign during the war. You might also remember that the intellectual and economic heartland of Serbs in the Balkans was in Vojvodina, not Belgrade. Serbia's intellectual elite attended lyceums and universities in Novi Sad, Sremski Karlovci, and Temesvar. Yet Serbs lived alongside Hungarians, Croats, Germans, Rusyns, etc. Sometimes well, sometimes tenuously. Late Hapsburg efforts to Magyarize Hungarian dominions pushed Serbs in Vojvodina closer to Belgrade, yet it was in Vojvodina's academic circles, along with Serbs and Croats of Dalmatia that the "Yugoslav" idea came about. For all its multiethnic makeup, "Hapsburg Serbia" as some called it, was attached to Monarchical Serbia after 1918, but even many Serbs living there resented the new centralizing policies of Belgrade.

I'm not so much arguing with you, as I'm adding more information to what you've already provided.

Chris Blaku and SaveKosova,

You complain about the death of Albanians, yet it was precisely the UCK that started the war.

Proving that the UCK started the war is as simple as reading the public communiques it issued before the war started. In 1997 the UCK publicly threatened to unleash an even bloodier war than Bosnia. (Communique no. 35, published in Koha Ditore 8 Aug 97 p3)

The UCK made no secret of its ambitions: "We make it clear to the Albanian people that the UCK was born out of necessity, because of the times we live
in, and its sole goal is the liberation of our territories. It has not introduced itself to the public in the
normal fashion, indoors or at a round table, but by turning the barrel of a gun against the invader and
traitors. Those in the failed pacifist movement must now realize that Kosova and the other Albanian territories will not be liberated down
the telephone or from an office, but only by a serious commitment in support of the armed struggle." (UCK communique no. 40, published in 'Bujku', 5 Dec 97 p10)

The UCK openly took credit for killings and terrorist attacks and in the most public way possible threatened "death to enemies and traitors". (Communique No 43 of the UCK General Staff, dated 2nd March 1998, published in 'Bujku' 4 Mar 98)

You can try to blame Serbia all you like. But the statements that the UCK made before the war are irrefutable proof that they, not Serbia, started the war.

Now we have an unfortunate situation where hypocrites like you are trying to blame Serbia for the consequences of your beloved UCK's billigerent actions.

Independence is your goal and it always has been. You don't care about the estimated 10,000 people who died during the war. They're nothing more than cannon fodder in your political agenda.

Hypocrites like you claim to hate death and destruction, yet you lionize the people who unleashed it against your own people.

The people of Kosovo have foolishly elected two UCK commanders (Ceku and Haradinaj) to be their prime ministers.

What kind of an independent Kosovo do you think you're going to live in?

The people who presume to lead the Kosovo-Albanians are no better than common street thugs. Agim Ceku has written that "government comes from the muzzle of a gun". (UCK Communique No 78, signed by Agim Ceku, published by Kosovapress news agency web site 16 May 99)

You can try to blame Milosevic, but the UCK has stated the situation quite clearly: "The people of Kosova did not form their own liberation army for the
purpose of a social revolution or to oppose government with a national tinge, but they are carrying on a
struggle to be liberated from the century-old occupier. If you confuse these two things, this means that you are
making a mistake on purpose." (Communique No 78, signed by the chief of the UCK General Staff, Agim Ceku, published by Kosovapress news agency web site 16 May 99)

The UCK started a war against Serbia (a.k.a. "the century-old occupier"), not because they particularly opposed Milosevic's government, but because they wanted independence from Serbia regardless of the government in Belgrade.

This is why we are in the intractable position we're in today. There is no negotiating with the likes of Ceku and the UCK. They insist on independence and they're willing to start a war and kill as many people as it takes inorder to get it.

This isn't about Slobodan Milosevic, alleged Serbian war crimes or anything else.

It wouldn't have mattered who the president of Yugoslavia was in 1999. Gahndi could have been the presidnt, and the UCK still would have attacked.

The Albanians want Kosovo's independence because they feel like they were cheated by the outcome of the Balkan War when the Ottoman Empire signed the treaty returning Kosovo to Serbia after occupying it for 500 years.

Whatever Belgrade did or didn't do has no relevance to the Albanian separatists outside of propaganda value.

We should all have sympathy for those who lose loved ones in the war, but lets not pretend like Serbia started the war or that the Kosovo-Albanians were innocent victims of an aggression.

We should listen to the real Albanian arguement for Kosovo's independence (if they even have one), but all of this emotional posturing we've seen is garbage. The Albanians speak one way to Western ears and quite another way when they speak among themselves. None of the UCK statements I referenced were intended for Western consumption, they were exclusively published in the Albanian language by the Albanian media.

(Karl Christopherson, 20. August 2007 22:52)

Karl I do appreciate you spelling my name correctly and trying to come up with the sources. I am not sure where you found these sources but great.

You're whole argument is that UCK started the war. The way this war started was when the serbian police were looking for Adem Jashari.

Here is how the rest goes (wikipedia):

"He (Adem Jashari) was killed in March 9, 1998 in an unequal battle with the Yugoslav Special Forces in his home village along with more over 50 of his relatives (men, women and children) whose corpses were defaced by the the troops.[1]"

Basically the serbian police didn't find Adem Jashari in his house or his relatives houses so they took the liberty to massacre 50 members of his family (nearly all of the JASHARI family), kids, women, anything.

The Kosovars didn't from the beginning support UCK but when you have things like that, people do tend to support a group of liberators who want to stop this injustice. This kind of thing has been happening for years, but not 50 at a time.

That's all I have to say.

To Christoferson,
you said: "This isn't about Slobodan Milosevic, alleged Serbian war crimes or anything else.
Are you even thinking that Slobodan was falsely acussed. So, poor guy, the all Balkans war were only fiction because their had a common author, Miloscevic.
Then you continue: "
It wouldn't have mattered who the president of Yugoslavia was in 1999. ".
You are only partly true. There was a very long time that the rage of Kosova people was fermented and creating its critical mass.
You said: " Gahndi could have been the presidnt, and the UCK still would have attacked". In fact for se several years Kosova tried the Ghandi way of paceful resistance under the leadership of Rugova. The outcome was quite the contrary. The Albanians of Kosova left without any means to have a decent life were denied to learn even their language. So, this critical mass of rage was translated in revolt by Miloscevic who was under the way of destructing the neighbour states as Croatia and B&H for the sake of his halucinant ideas that Serbs existence is complete uncompatible with the existence of other sorrounded neighbours. Consequently, his crimes and mass graves are there.
In this context Miloscevic was the indispensable glue to make the Kosova people realize that it was the high time to fight for their indipendence. Miloscevic engaged in Kosova besides army and police, the paramilitary troops, heavily contributing in criminilizing the Serb society at a large scaleIts state is seen as a deadly enemy as it killed merciless the civilians. Also the Serbian society after Miloscevic era didn't even try to take a conciliatory stance towards the people of Kosova, quite the contrary.
Henceforth, it would be nonsense to ask them to to return under Serbia, as now the people of Kosova is in Freedom for 8 years.

You said: "The Albanians want Kosovo's independence because they feel like they were cheated by the outcome of the Balkan War when the Ottoman Empire signed the treaty returning Kosovo to Serbia after occupying it for 500 years".
Do you realise now how unfounded was your above mentioned statement.
You asked: " We should listen to the real Albanian arguement for Kosovo's independence...."
Don't you think that these arguments are more than enough for a nation to be free and indipendent?

To Karl Christopherson,
First of all Mr. Karl nobody is trying to negate the fact that we want, and always have wanted independence. Yes, independence is our goal but for completely valid reasons.
Second, Kosovo was never Serbian nor Ottoman land. Now it you say that it was occupied again right after the empire left, that is different.
You claim that UCK started the war. And that is true again, nobody denies it. But it was preceded by actions of the then police forces and their repressive methods against everything that was Alabanian.
KLA was a handful of people in the begining, but after more than 40.000 Serbian troops were deployed to Kosovo with heavy artillery and other modern weaponry, things changed rapidly. They did not distinguish between civillians (children, women, old people or simply non-combatants)and the rebel force but treated every single Albanian as an UCK rebel.
To put it mildly sir, you are either ignorant of the facts, or are extremely biased.
You say "This isn't about SM, alleged Serbian war crimes or anything else"
Your ALLEGED war crimes have been proven beyond any doubt by ICTY.
Then again you say: "Whatever Belgrade did or didn't do has no relevance to the Albanian separatists outside of propaganda value"
So according to you evrything is about propaganda???
To be truly honest with you I would not respond at all to a post like yours, but it is outragious the way you dissmis the misfortune of the two peoples and their victims during the war in Kosovo. Just writing about sympathy does not mean it is all right to hurt the feelings of people who lost their loved ones in Kosovo (both Serbs and Albanians) because there is nothing in this world that will ease their pain for their loved ones.

Kalr Krisftofer

Another views of many about the Kosova form someone that has no clue were Kosova is never mind the reality now and them.
You can say whatever you like about KLA but for Kosovar people they are the protectors from the Serbian regime forces.

Ted

Your posting hold many true things. Some of K-Albanians are involved in organised crime, but tell me who in Balkans is not. Serb gangs are most famous in Europe for this kind of activities. If you watch news in Serbia then you will see what organised crime is, what corruption is, so mate wake up and watch both sides before you say something.

You have presented crime report from Kosova but you have forgotten to look at the other side, Serbia. Serbia crime report would be worst to start with.

Then you say that Numerous International Peacekeepers have been intimidated, harassed, shot at and missed and even shot and killed in Kosovo since 1999, I believe that you are talking about the police hurt and especially intimidated in Mitrovica, Zveçan, Gracanica by Serbs.i.e polish Special forces

@ adriano: "too little" allright, but are you sure (sure sure sure?) that it's "too late"?

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. No one except the most pro-Albanian lobby-recipients in the US supports unilateral independence. Those on the negotiating team today have voiced their unqualified commitment to avoid anything smacking of "unilateralism" at all costs. This would be bad for Serbia, but worse for Albanians as most Euopean support would immediately evaporate and much US support would be whiddled away in Congress.

The back and forth over the merits of Rep. Burton is redundant too. He says something critical of independence, the Albanians are all over him, while the Serbs praise him for an apparent turning of the tide. His opinions are about as meaninfgul and effective as Rep. Lantos. Neither of them are on the negotiating team, and neither of them have had any direct input in the final status solution of Kosovo.

The only people that seemingly put any stock in unilateralism seem to be people who make comments here. I seriously hope, for both Serbs and Albanians' sakes that it doesn't happen in real life.

Niksala, adriano, teni, etc.

This is the begining of the end for your independence. This is US starting to back down because Serbia started to attack the legitimacy of NATO mission in Kosovo. They had no way to deffend the allience with arguments so they are now backing down.

Unilateral support

SERBIA support
-RUSSIA
-China
-Most EU countries (if not all)
-Now even some US Republicans

Albanians
-Bush (maybe) I mean he hasnt said anything in a long while
-England (possibly)

The matter of fact is that there is no need for independence. Absolutely NONE. US can keep Bondsteel within Serbia without independence and even if the Serbs join EU. But they will never be able to keep it if they unilaterally recognize Kosovo. All that matters is that this was the first major outspoken US politician against independence. There will be more.

Chris Blaku wrote: "Serbia attempted to ethnically cleanse Kosova. Ten thousand Albanians were killed, most of whom were civilians. Serbia has had control over the province for a century, and its mismanagement has nearly bankrupted and indebted Kosova's rich mines. The population is indigenously the majority. The Kosovar Albanians have behaved more kindly to their Serbian compatriots than the Serbian Government behaved with them."

Chris, what you forget to mention is that Kosovo today is the most successfully ethnically cleansed region in the former Yugoslavia. I'm sure these 200 000 (mainly serbs) refugees are very grateful for your kind behavior.

Anybody living in America knows that Rahm Emanuel is in the A+ league of American politics and is the reason the Democrats won the House and Senate in the last election.All the people of Illinois are proud that Rahm Emanuel from our home state single-handedly sets the agenda of the Democratic Party.Shalom

Oh this is great news! It's about time that an american tells the truth about the problem with albanian terrorists in KiM!!!

I am curious, can someone tell me when america is going to put uck back on the terrorist list???

Keeping 2 millions albanians IN serbia is much more damageable in the next future for serbia than you think...
But don't worry,in or out,here we are again/and again and again you will have to deal with your albanain "minority"...
(lili, 20. August 2007 18:04)


I do not worry, Lili, and you don´t have no reason at all to be cynical since the demographic "explosion" of the Albanians is the cornerstone of their decline, you do not see it yet, but that time will come.

as for the article, it´s interesting, first B92 publishes an article about some allegedly "inconvenient truths" and now something that is uncomfortable for the Albanians to swallow.

seems as if B92 just wants to create a virtual climate for arguing against each other.

I would only say that if this is true, it could be first step towards sobering within the american political class.

we will see what future brings, but one thing seems clear, this is something the Albanians here didn´t like to read, ...since it must have been paid for as they claim.

they don´t even pretend to think about the content of Mr.Burtons words.

INTERNATIONAL LAW, guys..

what is so difficult about it, that you simply do not get the message?
again...
let´s see what future brings.

Coincidentally, not one Serb group or individual appears on that list. "

Of course they're not on the list. So, explain to us how 71 serbian war criminals were arrested in arizona and chicago and atlanta last year and most were deported or on trial now?
Oh btw, not being on the list of terrorists still didn't stop Nato from bombing serbia for 78 days...

FYI--Tom Lantos is still chairman of the foreign relations committee. :))

Nicities of diplomacy sometimes is not enough, given the situation that arrises. Independence - whether or not certain nations agree with it - in this case is a necessity.

This latest article by Dan Burton should not come as a surprise to anyone. Mr. Bruton is a long standing supporter of Serbia and has been participating in many events to promote Serbia's claim to Kosova.

Certainly, Serbia too has its supporters, but not nearly enough to shift the balance of infulence in Washington.

Jovan,

Your ability to misunderstand others here continues to amaze me. In your comment above you somehow conclude that i was saying the Albanian Lobby has been at it since before Milosevic came to power, when the only thing I said was “they have been at it for decades”.

Your interpretations are quite frankly ridiculous and the cynicism with which you refer to a typing mistake i made “inffulence” shows precisely why i, like many other Kosova Albanians will never agree to have your kind rule Kosova again.

@ Jack - obviously you are not well versed in international law. In fact, since the end of WWII the principle of territorial integrity has trumped self-determination in all cases except militaery occupation (West Bank) or colonial occupation. Kosovo is not regarded as either - most obviously, 1244 states that it is Serb territory. So, in fact, if one must prevail it is territorial integrity. By the way, if you argue that it must be self-determination then I presume that you would have no problem allowing the Kosovo Serbs to exercise the same right and pursue partition? You can't have it both ways!

Mr. Burton is just the beginning... in the next few weeks, more and more US Congressman and Senators will come forward and speak against Kosovo's independence. It was silly for the Albanians to think that just one man "Bush" could decide on his own to illegally unilaterally recognize Kosovo. Its over! It has been over since May 2007!

How did the Albanians become so pro-American when they were the most pro-China country in the world going as far as condemning the Soviet Union as being too western.If the US withdrws its support for Kosovo independence how much are Albanians going to love America then?I think the Taleban and Al-Qaeda liked us too in the 1980's when we were giving them arms and money to fight the Soviets.Not to mention Rumsfeld's trip to kiss the hand of Saddam Hussein when he invaded Iran.American policy must be based on the rule of law and not the whims of rulers.Shalom

Chris, what does your comment have to do with this article?? Anyway, what will finally make albanians see that Kosovo independence is not going to happen? Reps in the U.S. government are starting to realize the negative effects independence would have on the whole world...im just sitting back and loving it! Game over people, accept autonomy. CCCC

Albanians, please comment on what congressman Burton said in the article. You are replying more to what I said, than what he did. There is a legitimate threat from criminal and terrorist elements in Kosovo. When a US congressman acknowledges this, why can't Albanians? Does it cast a dirty light on your image as the long suffering, abused minority? Or do you know more than a career US politician - who is not afraid to state the truth?

Where does this nonsense come from?

Chris Blaku and others. . .for the millionth time. . .according to U.N. reports, forensic specialists working under U.N auspices have exhumed 2,108 bodies from the Kosovo war -- not 100,000 not even 10,000 as you claim -- that include civilians and combatants, Albanians and Serbs.

The State Department does have a list for terrorist groups and individuals. There are 219 such entities covered by Executive Order 13224. The VAST majority of these groups and individuals are Mid-Eastern moslems -- vehement supporters and brethren to Kosovo Albanians, right Chris? Coincidentally, not one Serb group or individual appears on that list.

Chris, you're entitled to an opinion. . .just don't make stuff up. These disingenuous attempts to cover the truth are quite tiresome.

Can you say COMPROMISE? We find ourselves again at a cross road, Serbs and Albanians alike...how do we take that step "together" in these uncharted waters? Do we continue spitting on each other as the world looks on with obviously impatient eyes and stomachs, or do we reach out finally to each other and make a better future for EACH community. As part of the collective human body, we certainly need to find a compromising solution...ya ya, I know, Albanians demand nothing less than independence, and Serbia suggests Autonomy, tell me something I don't know. Unfortunately, as a US citizen, it shames me to see our government bypassing the rules of international law in order to achieve it's grandiose plans and visions for the world...Scarry stuff. The masters continue to pull the strings, Russians and the United States...same game, different time and place. It's certainly is up to us to resolve our differences in discussions and to compromise, for compromise is what makes men noble, or else our destinies will be controlled by others. For once the ink on the paper dries, they can wipe their hands clean and walk away forever. We on the other hand remain, neighbors, faced with either co existence or mutual destruction. Albanians cannot deny the rights to Serbia, because Kosovo is their cradle of Serbia, our Jerusalem, whether Albanians like it or not...Albanians have legitimate concerns based on events which spiraled out of control in 1999, and they want seperation...its just simple facts which neither side can ignore any longer. Congressman Burton is absolutely correct, that WE need to find a solution that's acceptable to BOTH sides...like in any negotiation, you get some, you loose some. I certainly do hope and pray Kosovo finds peace and that truly each person may find salvation and hope....Let us not push each other as the Palestinians and Israelis have, a shameful example of people unwilling to compromise based on their inability to COMPROMISE.

Spot on Mr. Burton. Spot on. I am sure the proponents of greater albania are getting very, very nervous now. These words did not come from a Serb, but from an American with lots of influence. Like I have said, time is on the Serb's side. The tide is turning.

Perhaps Mr. Burton is one of the few who has not been purchased by the Albanian illegal money or the Saudi oil money and describing things from a realistic perspective.

The Serbian churches built hundreds of years ago state that this land was Serbian and will remain Serbian. Just because a nationality doubled in population over the last 50 years, does not give them ownership of the land. Just because Albanians claim the land is theirs, there are no physical monuments to back it up. Kosovo has to remain Serbian, no matter how a purchased politician spins the situation.

Cvele, what do you mean the US can keep Bondsteel within Serbia? Come on, that's a slap on the face to the Russians. That was their (US) whole purpose, not the albanians. Now you want to appease the enemy. If it wern't for the Russians, Kosovo would've been long gone. Now you want the US breathing down the Russian's back. I appreciated all of your comments in the past, but your really off the mark on this one!

to Karl Christopherson,

thanks for providing those sources, I was writing it a dozen times until I realized that Albanians ( at least those who write here on a regular basis ) do not even care whether it is true at all what they post.
all they got is accusations and threats
since the Albanians have no moral, legal or any other right whatsoever to claim Kosovo their own...they are reduced to those low-level arguments and threats.


...first it was "Russia will back down before the one and only global superpower"... then, "we will declare independence right after the meeting of Mr.Putin and Mr.Bush" and...now they are boring all others to death with their newest "dead-line"

let´s see what future brings.

"Rep. Dan Burton - HAHA, this is a joke right? He has no idea...i think he is still living in the world where slavery exits and women are not allowed to vote. I think he is the only politician that we shouldn't be worried. He doesn't know anything about human rights, so he is not entitled to talk about Kosovo."

Urban, this sounds exactly like what albanians are doing in Kosovo...hmm!!!

Finally !!!! An American politician with some common sense.

joe
Jack,

How can you say that "Serbs got Vojvodina through self-determination from Austria-Hungary" ??? There was absolutely no vote of the inhabitants, no self-determination. Mostly the French decided about the new borders of Hungary by imposing the treaty of Trianon. It was a purely political decision. The opinion of the inhabitants was completely disregarded. Today the same thing would not be possible. As a result of the treaty about 3,5 million Hungarians were forced to become citizens of newly created artificial countries like Yougoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Greater-Romania. The only place, where self-determination was allowed is the city of Sopron and some 16 villages on the Austro-Hungarian border. They all opted for Hungary. What was really touching for the Hungarians is the fact that many of those villages were and still are inhabited by Croatians. If self-determination would have been allowed on the whole territory of Greater Hungary than today Hungary would be twice as big with a population of about 16-17 millions. Entire regions with 80-90% Hungarian population like South-west Slovakia, Northern-Bacska in today's Vojvodina or the Western part of Karpato-Ukraine were detached from Hungary to make the new states economically more viable or simply because of an important rail-road line that the French wanted to give to the new country.
Instead of drowing the new borders on the ethnic lines - what would have been right with the Hungarians - those borders were created purely artificialy to favor the neighboring countries. So Jack think about how lucky you were at the beginning of the XX century. You got presents like Vojvodina and Kosovo. But in today's world, where self-determination also counts time is catching up with you.
(Joe, 20. August 2007 19:42)
Vojvodina (part of Hungary, Hungary-one of the entities Austria-Hungary) had a Serbian majority. I don't know about Northern Bacska but West Banat for instance had a Serbian majority. The principle of self-determination of that Serbian majority was taken into account when France, England and the other major victorious countries of world war one awarded Serbia Vojvodina. They didn't had a referendum organized since that wasn't necessary.
Kosovo is to Serbia what Vojvodina was to Hungary. Kosovo is a part of Serbia, one of the entities of former Yugoslavia with no Serbian majority, contigous to Albania.
Vojvodina was a part of Hungary, one of the entities of Austria-Hungary, with no Hungarian majority, contigous to Serbia.

Karl Christopherson, your post was more than interesting. Great depth, I never looked at it from that angle.

i am admiring the senator and his education very high velues and respectfull person
i hope he is runing for president .thank you

Thank you, Republican Dan Burton for restoring some of my faith back into American foreign policy, which still has some way to go.
I am looking forward to a lot more support coming from Washington over the next few weeks, respecting Serbia's sovereign territory and working through the ethnic Albanians concerns for self-governance.
It is unthinkable that Serbia give 15%(percent) of its territory to an ethnic Albanian minority.

Cvele, couldn't have said it better myself.

To the invaders of KosovO - aside from your caddy references of the past years/decades & centuries, what do you have to say about today?

to Mr. "COMPROMISE" - why should we compromise? KosovO was invaded - can you say that?

These comments come from a red blooded American that spent many years in the Balkans, and Kosovo, and viewed this issue from all sides, supported peoples on both sides when in need.

FIRST, I have to address ALBAN who's comments are definitely uneducated.
(1) NO EVIDENCE OF ORGANIZED CRIME. That is a laugh. Organized Crime in Kosovo is well documented. Albanian and Russian Mafia's have tremendous influence in areas such as Human Trafficing and Drugs among others. Research it if you think otherwise. That's for starters. (
2) Your statement...NO INTERNATIONAL FORCES INJURED BY THE LOCAL POPULATION.... Numerous International Peacekeepers have been intimidated, harrassed, shot at and missed and even shot and killed in Kosovo since 1999. THIS ALSO IS WELL DOCUMENTED...IE...ROAD TO PODEJEVO... a member of the Indian Police Contingent shot and killed among others. No less that 61 Peacekeepers were injured in the March 2004 Riots set off by Albanians falsely accusing Serbs of causing the deaths of 2 Albanian Youths, which was later found to be accidental and not ethnically related violence. Not to include the local injuries and more than 20 deaths of the local population, etc. WAKE UP...let's point out a few you can read for yourself on the internet news history...

Thursday, 26 July 2007
Albanian mafia shooting over parking meter scam in Blair's street.

Tuesday, 17 July 2007
Human trafficking ring broken in Kosovo, eight arrests made.

Wednesday, 25 April 2007
THE BALKANS: THE SOFT UNDERBELLY OF THE EUROPEAN NARCOTICS.

Wednesday, 14 March 2007
High-ranking Kosovo officials arrested for graft

Wednesday, 14 March 2007
KOSOVO: PREMIER’S AID DETAINED FOR SUSPECTED MONEY LAUNDERING.

Thursday, 4 January 2007
Opinion poll shows Energy Ministry "most corrupt" in Kosovo government.

Thursday, 21 December 2006
Kosovo police arrest high-ranking officials suspected of gunrunning.

Monday, 18 December 2006
Challenges persist in Kosovo's criminal justice system, OSCE Mission says.
Monday, 18 December 2006
Albanian police seize 5 kg of narcotics smuggled in from Kosovo.
Monday, 28 August 2006
Kosovo Albanian mafia takes over world drug market - Serbian daily.

MANY MANY MORE.......

Reserch the internet for these

Does it matter that the Albanian extremists hurt inocent grandmothers, grandfathers, and children going about their own business walking down the streets of Kosove such as Lipjan, Obilic and many others. Milosovic was a problem (he is gone), does this justify such terror.

This cannot be a one sided argument. I've personally seen abuses on both Albanian and Serbian sides, and have friends on both sides.

Imagine the United Nations or any Country declaring a portion of the United States Independent from the US...give me a break...

What is good for one, is good for all. (R) Dan Burton is correct and the US Congress and America should wake up. Serbs although not perfect, now have a democracy. Kosovo is a part of Serbia and resolution 1244 provides for the return of Serbian Forces. Certainly the Serbian population deserves protection. UCK...KLA...KPC or any other name you put on it, is not concerned in the least about the protection of the Serbian people.

Serbians, like any other poplulation are people just like most decent people around the world. It is the extremist, self centered individuals out for personal gain that mess things up. Many Albanian and Serbians care for each other, lived together for years, danced together and miss a normal life. How can it be normal when extremist pray upon the youth, enrage them, and encourage them to protest and destroy personal property and injure others.

I have to say, the biggest advocate for the Albanian Independence of Kosovo is the IGNORANCE OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AND CONGRESS.

The biggest beneficiaries are the Albanian extremists..not the normal Albanian on the street.

Thank you (R) Dan Burton..

This is not a surprise at all! Dan Burton has been against Kosova's Independence since the times of Milosevic! Only now that he managed to publish an article in Washington Post. Great achievement Dan! Most of the failed politicians do turn into Newspaper columnists.

To all those who are arguing about Self-determination and Territorial Integrity principles. It doesn't matter who is right. As long as same priciple applies to all.
In Croatia and Bosnia, Territorial Integrity, no Self-Determination. In Serbia Self-Determination, no Territorial Integrity. How come?

The Albanian lobby has been at it for decades and there is simply no way Serbia can counter the inffulence they have established in Washington.
(Nick, 20. August 2007 19:58)


well, do you wanna say that the Albanians are lobbying in the USA far longer/ than ( before )Milošević came into power? so that would mean you admit that your goal was always the creation of a greater Albania, like those of the socalled "Prizren League" planned to do?

hope they did their lobbying as properly as you wrote that comment, otherwise your "inffulence" would be tending towards zero.

bottomline: don´t worry, Serbia is coming back, at all levels. but this time it´s a democratic country, too bad for the Albanian legend of being "victims".

To Joe:
“As a result of the [Trianon] treaty about 3,5 million Hungarians were forced to become citizens of newly created artificial countries like Yougoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Greater-Romania”.
Well, I shall refer only to my country, which you call “artificial”. Vast majority of Transilvania inhabitants were always Romanians, outnumbering Hungarians. We are the original inhabitants of Transilvania (Romanized Dacians) not the Hungarians who came in as Huns in 9th and 10th centuries. Anyway, now doesn’t matter anymore, everybody is enjoying EU and NATO, in both Hungary and Romania. The Hungarians today are no more than 19% in Transilvania alone, and no more than 7% in entire Romania (and a lot of them live in Bucharest…). But their small poliyical party is in the Romanian Govt., by the way...
Even Hungarian historians are admitting that at the time of Trianon, the ethnic Romanians were absolute majority in the province, and that besides Hungarians, they were a lot of Germans. The demands of Budapest, at that time, were justified by “cultural superiority” and other stupid things like that. Your idea “If self-determination would have been allowed on the whole territory of Greater Hungary than today Hungary would be twice as big with a population of about 16-17 millions” would maybe work in some parts of the “Greater Hungary”, but not in Transilvania… Not to mention that the “Greater Hungary” would have been populated as much as 50 percent by other populations than Hungarians. And yes, in the case of Transilvania, the borderline were designed exactly on the ethnic lines, but Hungarians preferred always to live in central part of the province, especially in cities [as “culturally superior’, they would say] being separated from Hungary by large territories inhabited by Romanians – the same Romanians who for centuries were denied recognition, their religion (Orthodox Christianity) and language (Latin) being suppressed or barely tolerated. This is way Romanian in Transilvania were getting Latin-origin names at birth, in order no to be Hungarized (if you were baptized George, you would be considered by Hungarian administration as Gyorgy, the Mihail will be transcribed Mihaly and so fort, but for Silvian, Laurian or Tiberiu, there was not much to do…) So, instead of having 4 to 5 millions of Romanians in Hungary, under oppression, Trianon Treaty put one million Hungarians in Romania (and they are still Romanians outside the western border of the country, especially around the city of Gyula). And they were suffering during Communist as much as we Romanians, and after Communism we went together in EU, as equal citizens of a free country.
As about self determination, of which you graciously give the example of Croats in Sopron area, please see this quote from wikipedia.org (sorry for long quote, but you stated that “The opinion of the [Hungarian “lost” territories] inhabitants was completely disregarded”):
“Since the Austro-Hungarian empire had begun to disintegrate after the end of the First World War, the nationalities living inside proclaimed their independence from the empire. The 1,228-member National Assembly of Romanians of Transylvania and Hungary, headed by leaders of Transylvania's Romanian National Party and Social Democratic Party, passed a resolution calling for unification of all Romanians in a single state on 1 December in Alba Iulia. This was approved by the National Council of the Germans from Transylvania and the Council of the Danube Swabians from the Banat, on 15 December in Mediaº. In response, the Hungarian General Assembly of Cluj reaffirmed the loyalty of Hungarians from Transylvania to Hungary on December 22, 1918. The Treaty of Versailles placed Transylvania under the sovereignty of Romania, an ally of the Triple Entente, and after the defeat in 1919 of Béla Kun's Hungarian Soviet Republic by the Romanian army, the Treaties of St. Germain (1919) and Trianon (signed in June 1920) further elaborated the status of Transylvania and defined the new border between the states of Hungary and Romania.”
I rest my case. And to all people on the forum: Transilvania is an example for Kosovo, Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo should only hope that they will acquire some day the cooperation and tolerance Romanians and Hungarians and Germans in Transilvania are enjoying today.
Best,
George

As we can see not everyone is taking the bait in Kosovo. 1 Republican Senator is not so sure and the Democrats have not said anything yet. Now i am not sure, but i think there are other thing being discussed. I am sure Mr Ahmet will chime in sooner or later. Terrible things happen in combat and there is no such thing as a unequal battle either you choose to fight in a bad situation or just plain dumb. I feel sorry for those who have died during this conflict. I am hoping for cooler heads. Thanks to B92 for allowing constructive critism. P.S. can you please delete duplicate post that some participants are making. Thanks

Ted,
You write this:"FIRST, I have to address ALBAN who's comments are definitely uneducated."
I am amazed that you can come up with this kind off claims.I am not going to get personal here because i don't think this will help you understand the issue.
Bringing in here peace of articles from the Serbian tabloid and try to make them sound as evidence is ridiculous.
Please bring real evidence of the so call "mafia" in Kosovo. Please bring the kind of evidence that we got for the Italian mafia. Fill free to quote any international or local anti-mafia agencies. Or best, please fill free to quote any international crime agencies that officially rule in Kosovo.
Sadly you don't do that, but always assume that a common crime must be linked with "mafia" because there are Albanian's.
It may be that you got a problem to find the deference between a tabloid article and the officially guidance's.
As for you other ridiculous claim off the Albanian's injuring the foreign troops you need to understand that when a confrontation happens between the police and the people, will be injured to both parts.
Does that mean that the people there hate or try to attack the foreign troops? Absolutely not.
This things happen everywhere, even in Serbia it self, however you choose to ignore this in the hope that your comment can make some sense.

This is not a first time that B92 is not publishing my article. maybe this wouldnt be published either but anyway i m gona write. All i wrote was about Millosheviq Regime and Criminals who fought for 20 years all over ballkans and now are hiding in Serbia and you are protecting them, also i can tell than B92 is censuring the reality things and is giving some people who doesn't have a clue oppurtunity to give their coments. This is not fair and you shouldn't pretend than you are a democratic media because you are not.