Kosova is never going to be excepted as Independent state, from two brothers Serbs and Russians…because rusa+serbia=slavorthodoks…and both have their hand with blood…Serbia in her last Balkan war, and ruse with her own federal republics …if kosova is excepted independence from Serbia sanxhak and vojvodina is gone forever, if ruse excepted his federation state going to be juperdist….Europe countries have same problems with their on regions, but they do not tred them as a second class, that way they are more interested in balkan peace.
Some perspective on the title:
Priština: No alternative to independence
Serbia is a very patient country; we never lost our identity under the Turks and finally rose up and reclaimed what belonged to our forefathers! A few Albanian posters on b92 threatening violence and the inevitability of independence is more of a laughingstock to Serbs who know their history than anything else. We have faced much more formidable enemies in the past and have shown that we are ready to sacrifice every last citizen for our nation. Albanians will claim that this is fanatical, but why would we give up the country in which we live? Where else would we go? In the past world wars, we have sacrificed per capita more sons than any other nation for the cause of freedom. That alone speaks volumes.
For anyone that questions Serbian resolve, please use WWI as a case study to see how we persevere in the face of injustice and blackmail.
The unrest we see in KiM is but a nuisance compared to all we have suffered through. Believe us, we can wait even a thousand more years till things are resolved.
I will be posting some epic Kosovo poems which show that KiM pulsates with Serbian energy now and forever.
Thats easy ahmed,
Serbs were cleansed during WWII by the nazi albanians, then tito opened the floodgates with albania to destabilize and weaken serbia (the strongest republic by far so that jugoslavija could live), and last but not least because of the cultural war waged against serbs, and if that weren't enough, violence perpetrated against average serbs on a daily basis and the resulting ethnic cleansing that resulted because of the blind eye that Tito turned.
Princ lazar your post is the biggest joke of the century.
Please and i say Please again , tell why Albanians are over 95% in Kosova , if we just came to kosova 50 or 100 years ago?
Secomnd question, Why serbia would allow such think ?
You need to see a doctor my friend.No matter how hard serbia tried to do away with its original inhabitants which are Abanians, BUT they never succeded.
I always get a chuckle when I hear the Albanian mantra of "we will never be ruled by Beograd again." NEWS FLASH: That’s what you've been saying since you arrived in Kosovo, 50 and a 100 years ago!!
In the end, I don't believe that it matters at all whether Albanian settlements bow the knee at all. What matters is that Serbs control all of their own settlements, that is, the north, and all of the smaller regions throughout KiM.
An added bonus will be when Serbian border guards are eventually allowed on the Albanian and Macedonia borders, but this is not essential. Reinforced with an albeit symbolic Serbian military and police contingent, the message will be even more clear to any reasonable person. Pollyannaish elements of our Albanian friends will still insist that they are independent etc. If independence means that you will be in charge of your own local governance, than more power to you! However, the soil that you currently walk on and will walk on is Serbian! That is a guarantee that every Serb and international law will give you till the end of time.
After reading the "fascinating"comments in here and other important news,from now on I will support partition and I want Kosova to be indenpendent A.S.A.P
There is no life together between Albanians and Serbs!
Who we are kidding here!!!
Some of the commentators here want to build walls around areas populated by Albanians,some of them openly talk about killing Albanians in self defence,they want us to cross the mountain and go to Albania then swim to Italy,they want us to move to Albania,they deny our existence as human being,they brand us as a terrorists,they tell us to integrate to the country we live in,in other words they are telling us to stop living!!!
My dear friends,Albanians are one nation,from Tirana to Prishtina,from Skopje to Tetova.
I am proud to be Albanian!
We have one Flag,we share the same history,language,we are UNITED.
Soon, a second Albanian state in Europe will be ready to take of.I think the justice has prevailed.
Autonomy means freedom to run local affairs only. However, the Albanians would still remain Serbian citizens, serve in the Serbian army and allow Belgrade to run foreign policy for them. In other words they're expected to live and die under/for the Serbian flag. I don't know about you, but in my book that still means living "under the Serbian boot."
After the events of the 90's I hope you'll understand why Kosovar Albanians aren't exactly thrilled about such an honor bestowed to them by Serbia.
As for the rest of the arguments, they're only ridiculous to you because you don't like hearing them. They make perfect sense to the Albanians and a brief search on sites like Wikipedia or Encyclopedia Britannica would probably enlighten you too.
The history of Kosovo is a series of events. Serbian defeat against the Ottomans and the NATO attacks are just 2 points in its history. There are plenty more to consider.
I don't want it but KosovO should go with major stipulations. They should not be admitted to the UN but without any vote for at least 10yrs. Within this time they should work to have all those refugees who 'want' to come back to Kosovo a first step. Also Serbian troops should be allowed back into Serb Enclaves under the title of 'Nato soldiers'. The Northern Part should be made autonomous and if no Serb refugees return in 3yrs then the North should succeed to Serbia. Serbian language should be an equal language to Albanian throughout Kosovo as well.
I feel its important we keep Serbs in Kosovo otherwise everything Serb there will die and go to ruins. Our history there one day will sound like a fairy tale story as if we never existed there. If they wish to only succeed a small portion of the North to us then I'm for Srpska becoming independent at the same time. Russia and Serbia to recognize them first.
autonomy means autonomy, you should take a look into the dictionary if you do not know what that means.
autonomy provides the Albanians with self-rule, what they already could exercise if the UNMIK-forces would not be there.
the only thing Albanians would have to accept for that is that there must not be any stealing of land.
it is Serbia and no illyrian-nonsense whatsoever can help them to get that land, since their moral or historical justifications are truly ridiculous.
so the bottomline is:
autonomy is in fact the best solution since it would provide the Albanians with their wish "not to live under serbian boot", and it would assure that there is no change of borders, what is the interest of the Republic of Serbia.
"What other reason could there be for not excepting full autonomy under outside supervision? Fear of Serbian dominance? With supervision that would not be possible. So what excuse will they come up with next? Watch how fast the K-Albans will accept autonomy once the West removes their backing of independence! This is the only option for long-term peace."
The point is to move away from the status quo. What you suggest is status quo. Why should Albanians have to live under Serbs when Serbs don't want to live under Albanians. It doesn't make sense to me.
I wouldn't be as sure as you are about Albanians accepting autonomy in the case things go really really bad for us. The Albanians do not want to have anything to do with the Serb government even if its just symbolic or nominal. That is where things stand for us. Once you and every average Serb gets that then things will move forward.
Teni
Everyone has their own cross to bear. We are saying we r more then willing to take care of our part in regards to Kosovo development. However, we agree on one thing. KOSOVO is not for SALE. Not for EU, not for NATO, not for one annual GDP of US.
We will retain Kosovo because in every scenario that could possibely come at the end, even worst case scenario, Serbia still officialy owns Kosovo. It gives us claim to the land. Which means that the only legal document (deed)states Kosovo is Serbia proper despite the situation on the ground.
Wow, some things never change.
I’ve been following this process for quit a long time now. I’ve been amused with many comments but quit frankly they do not shock me. Without even reading the comments I can guess what most of you (Kosovar –Albs or Serbs) are going to argue.
According to some of the interviews that I’ve been watching lately (not reading them, WATCHING them), I’ve been able to understand one thing. Independence is not negotiable. Since this issue is very delicate, EU, US, and maybe Russia are being very careful and taking their time to come up with the best form of independence. Unlike Serbia who has rushed in more wars than any other European country since WWII, the US along with EU are willing to consider different forms of Independence in order to make a smart decision.
Pristina is not going to Vienna with a set decision. They too are going to give new proposals, but they are not going to interfere with independence. I’m quit sure that more Serbian municipalities are going to be offered. Lets face it, Serbia is not moving from broad autonomy just like Pristina is not going to move from the independence. However, Pristina will offer 2-3 new municipalities to Kosovar Serbs and this whole issue will be resolved. Decentralization is going to play a big part.
Lazar - no there is more than one of us, I'm afraid. Anyone can see that I am not Princip in disguise!!
We write differently, think differently, but do share most views on this issue. I am flattered that you think I am also Princip!
(kate, 17. August 2007 16:34)
Lazar, make it three (Canadien) and probably 333 more! It is not possible that all of us are the same person.
Changing of borders is absolutely not the answer here! Europe has enough countries; creating small non-viable mini states is ridicules. Minorities within larger countries are far better off with some form of autonomy while connected to a larger state sharing resources and governmental responsibilities. If the Albanians are so worried about Serbian repression under autonomy then supervision from the outside UN/EU should alleviate such fears. Of course this fear is just an excuse, Albanians would have everything needed for a prosperous, safe life in an autonomous Kosovo, as would the Serbs. However that is not their goal. The goal is to relegate Serbia to Beograd and the surrounding areas while creating an Albanian Empire along the lines of the old Ottoman Empire. What other reason could there be for not excepting full autonomy under outside supervision? Fear of Serbian dominance? With supervision that would not be possible. So what excuse will they come up with next? Watch how fast the K-Albans will accept autonomy once the West removes their backing of independence! This is the only option for long-term peace.
At this rate, Serbia is going to be reduced to the Pashaluk of Belgrade. No one in their right mind would want to live in a country who is dominated by radicals who have such hatered towards other ethnic groups.
We dont want independece because we woke up one morning and decided to punish Serbia. We want independence because it is the only way to ensure a bright future for the our children and grandchildren. They shouldnt have to go through what we did.
Russia is part of Europe when it suits it and part of Asia ... when it suits it. This so-called "European" country has no qualms about holding an entire continent hostage to achieve its ends. I guess you need to be reminded of natural gas suppy interruptions to Western Europe in the dead of winter and the threat to point missiles back to Europe anytime Russia has disagreements with the U.S.
In the mean time, Albania and Serbia don't exactly see eye to eye, yet Albania is importing energy from Serbian companies with no interference from the Serb government that I know of.
Russia's entire foreign policy is based on extortion, thuggery, and self-serving opposition to anything Western.
I'm Albanian and politically speaking, I would much rather climb in bed with a Serb than with a Russian.
Regarding the US meddling in the region, well it does have a right to stick its nose in Europe's affairs so to speak. It is after all the main contributor (militarilly and financially) to most international institutions that are worth their name. The U.S. is the backbone of NATO and in the case of Kosovo and Bosnia it was the U.S. that took the initiative to end the fighting there. It paid in money and blood (U.S. servicemen did die in the region during the hostilities) while Russia, as usual, did all it could to keep the bloodbath going. I know it's not what the Serbs in this forum want to hear, but that is the truth.
Back to the issue at hand:
In my PERSONAL view, the message that's being lost here is that the Albanians do not want to be subjugated to the Serbs.. not even theoretically, not even a little bit. The Serbs are also perfectly entitled to not want to be under Albanian rule.
So both sides should look for an arrangement where both ethnic groups have EQUAL power sharing. This could be achieved in the context of a confederation, federation, independence, who cares ...
Autonomy however, still means that ultimately it is Serbia that will call the shots and considering the bloodshed that occurred, that just won't work for the Albanians.
Quote "A true compromise is somewhere in the middle of the two opposite extremes both sides are asking for, on one side you have full intergration into Serbia, on the other side you have full independence, and in the middle you have autonomy, which Serbia is willing to offer. So the only side making a mockery out of negotiations is the uncompromising Albanian delegation."
you must be kidding yourself! those are not the two extremes, one extreme might be full intergration into Serbia like you say, but the other extreme than has to be full independence of Kosova and Presheva valley, the freedom of these territories to keep the albanian flag as their flag and the choice to join albania at any point. These would be extremes...asking for independce of Kosova is more like being somewhere in the middle...and Kosova is willing to be somewhere in the middle... now who is the side not willing to make negotiations?
Rade you seem to suffer from a superiority complex and that's just why we cannot live in the same country with you anymore.
Cvele: As things are looking at the moment Serbia will lose Kosovo and it just might lose the EU too. No Albanian will agree to being a part of Serbia because of a promise of development. Serbia is not Switzerland itself and the promise of development within an intact Serbia is just ridiculous. Why would we ever settle for that when we can get everything we want:INDEPENDENCE. Do you think your ancestors would have agreed to stay within the Ottoman Empire in order to develop? We won't either. And in any case we can do better ourselves and Kosovo is not for sale as far as we are concerned. Why don't you agree to the independence of Kosovo so that you might develop as part of the EU? I hope you do understand that in the very unlikely event that Kosovo remains part of Serbia, it would just be like stone wight draging Serbia down.
Nick I agree with your posts and I do see myself voting for your posts.
Don't pay attention to Princ Kate they just would love to misinform everyone and blame "terrorist/albanians/kosovo albanian" do you see how every time someone mentions the media they come up with the answer ever "the west has this and that."
120 days are going by and independence is the only way forward. belgrade can't integrate 2.2 million people into its corrupt system nor do the Kosovars want to do anything with belgrade. They compromised a lot
not joining with Albania
agreeing to Ahtisari plan.
R.U. Umbridge
WIN WIN
SERBIA REMAINS WITH ITS BORDERS INTACT AND IS ADMINISTERED INTO THE EU. WITH EU MONITORING KOSOVO 24/7 FOR AS LONG AS NECESSARY.
How is that NOT a win win? Kosovo would actually develop and not like the past 8 years where the situation has been getting from bad to worse on a daily basis. The idea that it will become the next Switzerland is as plausable as Switzarland becoming just like Kosovo.
The 120 days that Russia bought for Serbia is just the time that Serbian DSS leadership is using to stirr up a new conflict, further we go, it will get worse, since they have a diplomatic machinery and the money to do so.
How far will they go? Remains to be seen.
They are making one BIG mistake though.
US will not be bullied, they were not bullied in the Cold War let alone by a bunch of cowboys from DSS.
The US will let them know quietly, the rules of engagement in this diplomatic fiasco for Serbs (DSS)
when sejdulovic and cekulovic and the rest say something like this, i´m completly satisfied due to the fact, that - as usual - the opposite will happen.
but i respect their condition! do you know any other region where telling lies like that for EIGHT (!!) years is making you a popular (!!!!) politician ???
This is how the choice have been framed: do you want partition of Kosovo, or the supervised the independence of Kosovo that ensures that Serbs and minorities under Pristina have rights and guarantees? Hard choice? I say have both!
Just like Belgrade needs to understand that Kosovo is no longer Serbia, Pristina has to understand that N Kosovo is no longer Kosovo.
Trading N Kosovo for Presevo is nonesense because Pristina does not control N Kosovo, but Belgrade still indeed does control Presevo. Legally and de facto, N. Kosovo and Presevo are part of Serbia, while Presevo is also part of Serbia proper. The rest of Kosovo is only de facto not part of Serbia.
Both sides need to know that they must give up what they have de facto lost, and accept their commitments in protecting any minorities 'left behind' in their borders.
The basic plan I just outlined is basically Ahtissari's plan allowing N Kosovo to remain in Serbia--a good compromise which politicians will not have the courage to adopt, and which rabid nationalists will instinctively attack.
As far as the Pandora's Box in Presevo or Republic Srpska, that is nonsense, especially if they are discouraged from Belgrade, Prishtina or Sarajevo.
"Surely you can see the merits of such a win-win way forward?"
Do you mean the Serbia-Russia win-win or the Kosovo-EU/USA win-win? Because I really can't see an outcome which would be a win for both Kosovo and Serbia. If you have such a scenario in mind, please give some idea what it consists of.
So what you are saying is that Serbia, would like Kosova to return in the same position it was in 1999 but they beeing "resonable" (however ridiculous that might sound) are offering us autonomy as a compromise.
I dont know if you have noticed but many things have changed since then. Kosova does IN FACT already act as a sovreign nation without any form of control from Belgrade.
The fact is, even if there would be some compromise it would be betwen the two current positions AUTONOMY and INDEPENDENCE and not PRIOR TO 1999 and INDEPENDENCE.
The only compromise that could possibly be found betwen these two oposing positions would be Partition.
Although not completely convinced, i am begging to suspect that partition is the only way forward. Switch northern Kosova for Presheva. I know this is not very popular with some people but its the only way to make sure that this centuries old conflict comes to an end.
Dan: you have slightly misunderstood the situation. The two extremes are autonomy and independence and it seems that there is no middle ground at all. The suggestion that Kosovo and Serbia join in a federation of sorts as equal partners which could be the middle ground is actually so ridiculous as not to deserve any serious contemplation. Complete integration in Serbia on the other hand is simply not a factor at all. The only compromise would be that Belgrade holds on to the Northern bit of Kosov where there are very few Albanians anyway. I think this is actually in the best interest of K-Albanians because such a move would greatly reduce the Serb element in a new independent Kosovo and the problems they are bound to create at the instigation of Belgrade.
"Kosova will win its indipendence and Serbia will win its liberation from what is keeping away from the democratic family of nations."
Exactly.
Adem Demaci:
“the same mechanism which keeps by sheer violence both
Albanians and other peoples in captivity, has been hindering democratisation in Serbia for 100 years.”
Marx (on British rule in Ireland):
“a nation oppressing another nation can never itself be free”
"So, if all you can offer is Autonomy and all we can accept is Independence then i suppose it would be fair to assume that both sides are making a mockery of these "negotiations". "
A true compromise is somewhere in the middle of the two opposite extremes both sides are asking for, on one side you have full intergration into Serbia, on the other side you have full independence, and in the middle you have autonomy, which Serbia is willing to offer. So the only side making a mockery out of negotiations is the uncompromising Albanian delegation.
Nick,
I fully agree with your comments about the known positions of the EU and the US. Serbia and Russia are alone to object. All this in light of almost daily attacks against Hungarians and Roma in reduced current Serbia. Seeing all this why would K-Albanians have the slightest hesitation in their determination to get full independence? Who would ever like to return to his oppressor?
Nick
"The Americans know fully well that the Albanians are the key to stability in this part of the Balkans and abandoning them is a recipe for disaster."
Hah. Key how? If not then there will be terrorist attacks? The albans have no military. Even albania has no military. Like 500 000 pill bunkers in case they are attacked but those are self made coffins that would be useless in holding back a military
Key to Balkan stability and EU prize in the Balkans is and always will be Belgrade, Serbia.
Nick: "Oh and Princip, please stop trying to manipulate public opinion on these issues, it siply wont work in the 21st century."
The (true and not imagined) manipulation of public opinion by the mass media has played a major part in international affairs during the past 10 years!!
Plus, the EU is not 100% with the US in favour of independence. They are split, which is one of the major problems.
The Kosova Leadership will promote and protect the best interests of the citizens of Kosova, and not the best interests of as you put it "ALL".
"win-win" is a fiction of your imagination. Win-win is like a 30 year old man beating a 10 year old kid to death and then asking him to live under the same roof.
For someone who posts not only in B92 but other forums too i can only assume 2 things: 1) You either dont know much about Kosova, its people and history; or 2) You are deliberately trying to misinform the readers of these forums regarding the true intentions of the state of Serbia.
Perhaps i should also remind you that the EU agrees with the US on the principle of Independence. They too agree that Kosova should be independent.
The differences betwen the two appear when we start talking abou the "way to achieve such independence"
Any attempt to sideline the US by claiming the EU and Russia are together on this is in vain, since the EU has quite clearly stated in several occasions that they fully support the Ahtisari Plan.
Oh and Princip, please stop trying to manipulate public opinion on these issues, it siply wont work in the 21st century.
Once again, The EU has stated in a counltess number of occastions that they fully support the Ahtisari Plan.
When it comes to the principle issue of whether Kosova should have its independence Serbia and Russia are alone in objecting.
Princip,
You are speaking for a win-win situation. In fact, Kosova will win its indipendence and Serbia will win its liberation from what is keeping away from the democratic family of nations.
As soon Serbia will realize it the better.
Princip: I agree with you that a win-win deal would be the best outcome. However we have very different ideas on what constitutes a win-win deal. For us anything less than independence is not a win-win anything. (Let alone anything proposed by Russia that has made its hostility to Albanians abundantly clear) The only thing left to discuss as far as the K-Albanians are concerned is what shape an independent Kosovo will take and what rights the minorities will have. This are the only areas where we are willing to compromise as we have already shown by agreeing to grant the K-Serbs a far wider autonomy than Serbia ever granted the Albanians. The other possible compromise I guess would be swaping Northern Kosovo for Presevo.
And Princip before being an European issue - which it is - this is an Albanian - Serb issue and we have much more faith in the commitment of the US to achieve independence for Kosovo than in that of the EU where several members, e.g. Greece, have a long history of antagonism with the Albanians. The US is our safest bet that there will not be an EU-Russia deal to the detriment of Kosovo's independence.
Princip, we all start from the premise that others are similar to us. Sadly though, the Kosovo Albanian leadership is only concerned with maintaining its grip on power. They do not have the interests of their people at heart.
We can expect them to instigate violence against the Serbian population and even NATO, if they calculate that this works in their favour. Mr Montgomery said as much in his recent article.
Nick: I agree that some real alternatives need to be put on the table, and hopefully that is what is now happening.
Serbia is part of Europe, therefore I don't believe that the US should rush in with a one-sided approach involving handing over another country's sovereign territory - even if, as you say, Europe appears unable to solve the issue.
America is a powerful nation but should act within the UN. I don't believe it should not act unilaterally which could lead to the security in the region being terribly damaged.
Not only because of the knock-on effect in Serbia and other countries, but also by bypassing international law. There has been enough of that already and it's becoming very fragile.
The key to security in the region is not appeasing the Albanians in Kosovo at all - it's relations with the countries throughout the Balkans. How can being onside with one independence seeking ethnicity be more important than building relations with state governments?
You are talking about a single ethnic group (which already has a country of its own in the region) being given independence against the will of its sovereign nation.
This was signed and sealed when 1244 was established, confirming territorial integrity of Serbia.
Also, the comparisons that you are drawing between the position of the Serbian government and the provincial Kosovo government cannot be viewed equally.
The former already holds the land legally, and the latter wishes to break away. I agree that a realistic approach must be taken to solving this problem but you can't equate the two.
Lastly, you draw similar comparisons between what you describe as Russian intransigence in the UN and the US making its own moves away from the process. These cannot be compared either.
Russia has used its veto in the Security Council less than the UK and the US in the years since WWII. The SC is set up to provide for its members to have the right to veto. That's the whole point (rightly or wrongly).
I would never blindly follow Russian policy but I do believe that Putin is absolutely right about this. It is a matter of international security, and there cannot be any case where boundaries can be withdrawn against the will of a sovereign nation in order to appease any ethnic group. It has to be done with the state in question in agreement.
I think that a solution can be found to suit both with clever diplomacy. But not while false hopes are being fed to one side.
And 'shqiptar' - I would never call the previous talks a true bid to find a solution. The parties met about once a month and independence was decided as the goal virtually from day 1.
Prepare yourselves for a deluge of empty slogans from the supporters of the Kosovo Albanian junta. Princip, if the inane chatter coming from the pro-junta posters is any sort of indicator, there will be no lateral thinking from Ceku, Sejdiu et al. More's the pity for them.
The Kosovo Albanians will attend the talks. They will posture and threaten. If they overdo it they'll render themselves irrelevant and a deal will be struck with Serbia only.
Serbia has sovereignty over Kosovo and Metohija and has weathered the storm thus far. The only threat it is actually faced with is a vague; 'This could delay your entry into the EU'.
Sure, the US has said Kosovo will be independent 'one way or another'. Virtual independence, with no border changes.
More recently, Wisner said the troika will not interfere or impose solutions or deadlines. And the US has warned Ceku against declaring independence unilaterally.
The US may have been dead-set on gifting part of Serbia to the Kosovo Albanian leadership but it has become blatantly obvious that the moment has passed.
Events have overtaken that plan and the last gasp at rescuing it is convincing Serbia to accept partition. If the Serbs politely decline the offer of a lesser land grab it will be time for the real 'plan B' to be unveiled.
The US will wring some painful concessions from Serbia in return for territorial integrity, giving the Kosovo Albanians some real elements of sovereignty and that will be the final offer.
Simple Nick... Russia is in Europe.... The Yanks aint! Russia seeks a solution that is acceptable to BOTH Beograd and Pristina whilst America wants a NATO puppet state that can ONLY be acceptable to Pristina.
Maybe we should all salute the higher intelligence of the US think tank. After all, as you pointed out, America knows that the happiness of the Albanians is the key to peace in the Balkans! Why didn't us humble Europeans think of that! Thankyou, on behalf of the affected land mass that is Europe.... thankyou and God bless America!
I would not be so negative regarding the "negotiations" that are about to start and I do believe a "European compromise" is possible form the 2 "European" members of the Troika i.e. the EU & Russia - after all this is a "European" issue and theer should be a way forward for the continent of Europe to resolve matters based upon an inclusive nature which respects human rights for all and international law.
Surely you can see the merits of such a win-win way forward? Hopefully the local leadership in Serbia's southern province want what is in the best interets of all too!
"“We will confirm our final and unwavering position that Kosovo’s independence has no alternative,” Fatmir Sejdiu, Kosovo president and leader of the team, said Thursday."
JHam - I am intrigued to know what you mean.
Seems to me that it makes a mockery of any 'negotiations' when one side refuses to even consider any outcome other than the one they go in with.
As Mike said yesterday, the US needs to revoke their role in the wings of saying that independence will be delivered regardless.
If the US starts supporting true and open negotiations for the benefit of all, it would win the respect of many European countries. At the moment it seems as though they are deliberately sabotaging talks.
Kate,
Can you tell me what you means by "talks". I consider these 120 days just a time bought to try to accomodate Russia with the indipendence as a natural outcome. Do you really believe that there are still issues left for discussion? If so, can you mention them?
Serbia, needs to show maturity by attending with an open mind and great willingness to think out of the box and discussing all the possible avenues without prejudice - this what "negotiations" in such early stages should be - bit like a brainstorming session in so many ways. Yes Serbia can bring it's proposal but it must be willing to show all the pro's and con's of it and highlight its merits against all the other possible scenario's. Serbia needs to be very positive about these "negotiations" for it has all to gain through them as do the ethnic-Albanians if they think out of the box too since all can win-win.
It was stated in a number of occasions from Serbian politicians that what they are willing to offer is "anything but independence". While to you and a number of other Europeans who may or may not know much about Serbian politics that can sound as if the Serbs are offering a number of alternatives, the truth is that those alternatives are basically the same thing "autonomy".
So, if all you can offer is Autonomy and all we can accept is Independence then i suppose it would be fair to assume that both sides are making a mockery of these "negotiations".
Furthermore, the US can not revoke its position of support for independence because the know that if they do so the Europeans are too weak to solve this issue on their own or take any decision whatsoever, which suits Serbia enormously and guarantees the creation of a frozen conflict which will eventually unfreeze and throw the entire region into chaos.
The Americans know fully well that the Albanians are the key to stability in this part of the Balkans and abandoning them is a recipe for disaster.
Besides, why would the US revoke its position when Russia has not even hinted at revoking theirs? Yes the Russians have achieved the great goal of being as vague as possible with their "compromise" rhetoric, but they have also stated quite clearly that any solution must be in compliance with 1244 and must preserve the territorial integrity of Serbia.
It is about time that the Serbian politicians admitted that partition is the best/only option.Serbs do not want to be ruled by Albanians and vice versa, stop wasteing Serbian taxpayers money and get on with your lives.
Remember all what the President of Kosovo said, no alternatives. That is all i will say. Sounds like more predictions like PM Ceku made in May about independence. There are more than meets the eyes or ears. Prepare yourselves for serious words.
Simple Nick... Russia is in Europe.... The Yanks aint! Russia seeks a solution that is acceptable to BOTH Beograd and Pristina whilst America wants a NATO puppet state that can ONLY be acceptable to Pristina.
Maybe we should all salute the higher intelligence of the US think tank. After all, as you pointed out, America knows that the happiness of the Albanians is the key to peace in the Balkans! Why didn't us humble Europeans think of that! Thankyou, on behalf of the affected land mass that is Europe.... thankyou and God bless America!
Nick: I agree that some real alternatives need to be put on the table, and hopefully that is what is now happening.
Serbia is part of Europe, therefore I don't believe that the US should rush in with a one-sided approach involving handing over another country's sovereign territory - even if, as you say, Europe appears unable to solve the issue.
America is a powerful nation but should act within the UN. I don't believe it should not act unilaterally which could lead to the security in the region being terribly damaged.
Not only because of the knock-on effect in Serbia and other countries, but also by bypassing international law. There has been enough of that already and it's becoming very fragile.
The key to security in the region is not appeasing the Albanians in Kosovo at all - it's relations with the countries throughout the Balkans. How can being onside with one independence seeking ethnicity be more important than building relations with state governments?
You are talking about a single ethnic group (which already has a country of its own in the region) being given independence against the will of its sovereign nation.
This was signed and sealed when 1244 was established, confirming territorial integrity of Serbia.
Also, the comparisons that you are drawing between the position of the Serbian government and the provincial Kosovo government cannot be viewed equally.
The former already holds the land legally, and the latter wishes to break away. I agree that a realistic approach must be taken to solving this problem but you can't equate the two.
Lastly, you draw similar comparisons between what you describe as Russian intransigence in the UN and the US making its own moves away from the process. These cannot be compared either.
Russia has used its veto in the Security Council less than the UK and the US in the years since WWII. The SC is set up to provide for its members to have the right to veto. That's the whole point (rightly or wrongly).
I would never blindly follow Russian policy but I do believe that Putin is absolutely right about this. It is a matter of international security, and there cannot be any case where boundaries can be withdrawn against the will of a sovereign nation in order to appease any ethnic group. It has to be done with the state in question in agreement.
I think that a solution can be found to suit both with clever diplomacy. But not while false hopes are being fed to one side.
And 'shqiptar' - I would never call the previous talks a true bid to find a solution. The parties met about once a month and independence was decided as the goal virtually from day 1.
Perhaps i should also remind you that the EU agrees with the US on the principle of Independence. They too agree that Kosova should be independent.
The differences betwen the two appear when we start talking abou the "way to achieve such independence"
Any attempt to sideline the US by claiming the EU and Russia are together on this is in vain, since the EU has quite clearly stated in several occasions that they fully support the Ahtisari Plan.
Oh and Princip, please stop trying to manipulate public opinion on these issues, it siply wont work in the 21st century.
Once again, The EU has stated in a counltess number of occastions that they fully support the Ahtisari Plan.
When it comes to the principle issue of whether Kosova should have its independence Serbia and Russia are alone in objecting.
Remember all what the President of Kosovo said, no alternatives. That is all i will say. Sounds like more predictions like PM Ceku made in May about independence. There are more than meets the eyes or ears. Prepare yourselves for serious words.
Serbia, needs to show maturity by attending with an open mind and great willingness to think out of the box and discussing all the possible avenues without prejudice - this what "negotiations" in such early stages should be - bit like a brainstorming session in so many ways. Yes Serbia can bring it's proposal but it must be willing to show all the pro's and con's of it and highlight its merits against all the other possible scenario's. Serbia needs to be very positive about these "negotiations" for it has all to gain through them as do the ethnic-Albanians if they think out of the box too since all can win-win.
"“We will confirm our final and unwavering position that Kosovo’s independence has no alternative,” Fatmir Sejdiu, Kosovo president and leader of the team, said Thursday."
JHam - I am intrigued to know what you mean.
Seems to me that it makes a mockery of any 'negotiations' when one side refuses to even consider any outcome other than the one they go in with.
As Mike said yesterday, the US needs to revoke their role in the wings of saying that independence will be delivered regardless.
If the US starts supporting true and open negotiations for the benefit of all, it would win the respect of many European countries. At the moment it seems as though they are deliberately sabotaging talks.
Kate,
Can you tell me what you means by "talks". I consider these 120 days just a time bought to try to accomodate Russia with the indipendence as a natural outcome. Do you really believe that there are still issues left for discussion? If so, can you mention them?
Nick: "Oh and Princip, please stop trying to manipulate public opinion on these issues, it siply wont work in the 21st century."
The (true and not imagined) manipulation of public opinion by the mass media has played a major part in international affairs during the past 10 years!!
Plus, the EU is not 100% with the US in favour of independence. They are split, which is one of the major problems.
"So, if all you can offer is Autonomy and all we can accept is Independence then i suppose it would be fair to assume that both sides are making a mockery of these "negotiations". "
A true compromise is somewhere in the middle of the two opposite extremes both sides are asking for, on one side you have full intergration into Serbia, on the other side you have full independence, and in the middle you have autonomy, which Serbia is willing to offer. So the only side making a mockery out of negotiations is the uncompromising Albanian delegation.
Lazar - no there is more than one of us, I'm afraid. Anyone can see that I am not Princip in disguise!!
We write differently, think differently, but do share most views on this issue. I am flattered that you think I am also Princip!
(kate, 17. August 2007 16:34)
Lazar, make it three (Canadien) and probably 333 more! It is not possible that all of us are the same person.
It was stated in a number of occasions from Serbian politicians that what they are willing to offer is "anything but independence". While to you and a number of other Europeans who may or may not know much about Serbian politics that can sound as if the Serbs are offering a number of alternatives, the truth is that those alternatives are basically the same thing "autonomy".
So, if all you can offer is Autonomy and all we can accept is Independence then i suppose it would be fair to assume that both sides are making a mockery of these "negotiations".
Furthermore, the US can not revoke its position of support for independence because the know that if they do so the Europeans are too weak to solve this issue on their own or take any decision whatsoever, which suits Serbia enormously and guarantees the creation of a frozen conflict which will eventually unfreeze and throw the entire region into chaos.
The Americans know fully well that the Albanians are the key to stability in this part of the Balkans and abandoning them is a recipe for disaster.
Besides, why would the US revoke its position when Russia has not even hinted at revoking theirs? Yes the Russians have achieved the great goal of being as vague as possible with their "compromise" rhetoric, but they have also stated quite clearly that any solution must be in compliance with 1244 and must preserve the territorial integrity of Serbia.
Princip,
You are speaking for a win-win situation. In fact, Kosova will win its indipendence and Serbia will win its liberation from what is keeping away from the democratic family of nations.
As soon Serbia will realize it the better.
Nick
"The Americans know fully well that the Albanians are the key to stability in this part of the Balkans and abandoning them is a recipe for disaster."
Hah. Key how? If not then there will be terrorist attacks? The albans have no military. Even albania has no military. Like 500 000 pill bunkers in case they are attacked but those are self made coffins that would be useless in holding back a military
Key to Balkan stability and EU prize in the Balkans is and always will be Belgrade, Serbia.
Changing of borders is absolutely not the answer here! Europe has enough countries; creating small non-viable mini states is ridicules. Minorities within larger countries are far better off with some form of autonomy while connected to a larger state sharing resources and governmental responsibilities. If the Albanians are so worried about Serbian repression under autonomy then supervision from the outside UN/EU should alleviate such fears. Of course this fear is just an excuse, Albanians would have everything needed for a prosperous, safe life in an autonomous Kosovo, as would the Serbs. However that is not their goal. The goal is to relegate Serbia to Beograd and the surrounding areas while creating an Albanian Empire along the lines of the old Ottoman Empire. What other reason could there be for not excepting full autonomy under outside supervision? Fear of Serbian dominance? With supervision that would not be possible. So what excuse will they come up with next? Watch how fast the K-Albans will accept autonomy once the West removes their backing of independence! This is the only option for long-term peace.
Teni
Everyone has their own cross to bear. We are saying we r more then willing to take care of our part in regards to Kosovo development. However, we agree on one thing. KOSOVO is not for SALE. Not for EU, not for NATO, not for one annual GDP of US.
We will retain Kosovo because in every scenario that could possibely come at the end, even worst case scenario, Serbia still officialy owns Kosovo. It gives us claim to the land. Which means that the only legal document (deed)states Kosovo is Serbia proper despite the situation on the ground.
I would not be so negative regarding the "negotiations" that are about to start and I do believe a "European compromise" is possible form the 2 "European" members of the Troika i.e. the EU & Russia - after all this is a "European" issue and theer should be a way forward for the continent of Europe to resolve matters based upon an inclusive nature which respects human rights for all and international law.
Surely you can see the merits of such a win-win way forward? Hopefully the local leadership in Serbia's southern province want what is in the best interets of all too!
Prepare yourselves for a deluge of empty slogans from the supporters of the Kosovo Albanian junta. Princip, if the inane chatter coming from the pro-junta posters is any sort of indicator, there will be no lateral thinking from Ceku, Sejdiu et al. More's the pity for them.
The Kosovo Albanians will attend the talks. They will posture and threaten. If they overdo it they'll render themselves irrelevant and a deal will be struck with Serbia only.
Serbia has sovereignty over Kosovo and Metohija and has weathered the storm thus far. The only threat it is actually faced with is a vague; 'This could delay your entry into the EU'.
Sure, the US has said Kosovo will be independent 'one way or another'. Virtual independence, with no border changes.
More recently, Wisner said the troika will not interfere or impose solutions or deadlines. And the US has warned Ceku against declaring independence unilaterally.
The US may have been dead-set on gifting part of Serbia to the Kosovo Albanian leadership but it has become blatantly obvious that the moment has passed.
Events have overtaken that plan and the last gasp at rescuing it is convincing Serbia to accept partition. If the Serbs politely decline the offer of a lesser land grab it will be time for the real 'plan B' to be unveiled.
The US will wring some painful concessions from Serbia in return for territorial integrity, giving the Kosovo Albanians some real elements of sovereignty and that will be the final offer.
Princip: I agree with you that a win-win deal would be the best outcome. However we have very different ideas on what constitutes a win-win deal. For us anything less than independence is not a win-win anything. (Let alone anything proposed by Russia that has made its hostility to Albanians abundantly clear) The only thing left to discuss as far as the K-Albanians are concerned is what shape an independent Kosovo will take and what rights the minorities will have. This are the only areas where we are willing to compromise as we have already shown by agreeing to grant the K-Serbs a far wider autonomy than Serbia ever granted the Albanians. The other possible compromise I guess would be swaping Northern Kosovo for Presevo.
And Princip before being an European issue - which it is - this is an Albanian - Serb issue and we have much more faith in the commitment of the US to achieve independence for Kosovo than in that of the EU where several members, e.g. Greece, have a long history of antagonism with the Albanians. The US is our safest bet that there will not be an EU-Russia deal to the detriment of Kosovo's independence.
The Kosova Leadership will promote and protect the best interests of the citizens of Kosova, and not the best interests of as you put it "ALL".
"win-win" is a fiction of your imagination. Win-win is like a 30 year old man beating a 10 year old kid to death and then asking him to live under the same roof.
For someone who posts not only in B92 but other forums too i can only assume 2 things: 1) You either dont know much about Kosova, its people and history; or 2) You are deliberately trying to misinform the readers of these forums regarding the true intentions of the state of Serbia.
Nick,
I fully agree with your comments about the known positions of the EU and the US. Serbia and Russia are alone to object. All this in light of almost daily attacks against Hungarians and Roma in reduced current Serbia. Seeing all this why would K-Albanians have the slightest hesitation in their determination to get full independence? Who would ever like to return to his oppressor?
R.U. Umbridge
WIN WIN
SERBIA REMAINS WITH ITS BORDERS INTACT AND IS ADMINISTERED INTO THE EU. WITH EU MONITORING KOSOVO 24/7 FOR AS LONG AS NECESSARY.
How is that NOT a win win? Kosovo would actually develop and not like the past 8 years where the situation has been getting from bad to worse on a daily basis. The idea that it will become the next Switzerland is as plausable as Switzarland becoming just like Kosovo.
autonomy means autonomy, you should take a look into the dictionary if you do not know what that means.
autonomy provides the Albanians with self-rule, what they already could exercise if the UNMIK-forces would not be there.
the only thing Albanians would have to accept for that is that there must not be any stealing of land.
it is Serbia and no illyrian-nonsense whatsoever can help them to get that land, since their moral or historical justifications are truly ridiculous.
so the bottomline is:
autonomy is in fact the best solution since it would provide the Albanians with their wish "not to live under serbian boot", and it would assure that there is no change of borders, what is the interest of the Republic of Serbia.
I always get a chuckle when I hear the Albanian mantra of "we will never be ruled by Beograd again." NEWS FLASH: That’s what you've been saying since you arrived in Kosovo, 50 and a 100 years ago!!
In the end, I don't believe that it matters at all whether Albanian settlements bow the knee at all. What matters is that Serbs control all of their own settlements, that is, the north, and all of the smaller regions throughout KiM.
An added bonus will be when Serbian border guards are eventually allowed on the Albanian and Macedonia borders, but this is not essential. Reinforced with an albeit symbolic Serbian military and police contingent, the message will be even more clear to any reasonable person. Pollyannaish elements of our Albanian friends will still insist that they are independent etc. If independence means that you will be in charge of your own local governance, than more power to you! However, the soil that you currently walk on and will walk on is Serbian! That is a guarantee that every Serb and international law will give you till the end of time.
"Kosova will win its indipendence and Serbia will win its liberation from what is keeping away from the democratic family of nations."
Exactly.
Adem Demaci:
“the same mechanism which keeps by sheer violence both
Albanians and other peoples in captivity, has been hindering democratisation in Serbia for 100 years.”
Marx (on British rule in Ireland):
“a nation oppressing another nation can never itself be free”
The 120 days that Russia bought for Serbia is just the time that Serbian DSS leadership is using to stirr up a new conflict, further we go, it will get worse, since they have a diplomatic machinery and the money to do so.
How far will they go? Remains to be seen.
They are making one BIG mistake though.
US will not be bullied, they were not bullied in the Cold War let alone by a bunch of cowboys from DSS.
The US will let them know quietly, the rules of engagement in this diplomatic fiasco for Serbs (DSS)
when sejdulovic and cekulovic and the rest say something like this, i´m completly satisfied due to the fact, that - as usual - the opposite will happen.
but i respect their condition! do you know any other region where telling lies like that for EIGHT (!!) years is making you a popular (!!!!) politician ???
Nick I agree with your posts and I do see myself voting for your posts.
Don't pay attention to Princ Kate they just would love to misinform everyone and blame "terrorist/albanians/kosovo albanian" do you see how every time someone mentions the media they come up with the answer ever "the west has this and that."
120 days are going by and independence is the only way forward. belgrade can't integrate 2.2 million people into its corrupt system nor do the Kosovars want to do anything with belgrade. They compromised a lot
not joining with Albania
agreeing to Ahtisari plan.
It is about time that the Serbian politicians admitted that partition is the best/only option.Serbs do not want to be ruled by Albanians and vice versa, stop wasteing Serbian taxpayers money and get on with your lives.
Princip, we all start from the premise that others are similar to us. Sadly though, the Kosovo Albanian leadership is only concerned with maintaining its grip on power. They do not have the interests of their people at heart.
We can expect them to instigate violence against the Serbian population and even NATO, if they calculate that this works in their favour. Mr Montgomery said as much in his recent article.
"Surely you can see the merits of such a win-win way forward?"
Do you mean the Serbia-Russia win-win or the Kosovo-EU/USA win-win? Because I really can't see an outcome which would be a win for both Kosovo and Serbia. If you have such a scenario in mind, please give some idea what it consists of.
So what you are saying is that Serbia, would like Kosova to return in the same position it was in 1999 but they beeing "resonable" (however ridiculous that might sound) are offering us autonomy as a compromise.
I dont know if you have noticed but many things have changed since then. Kosova does IN FACT already act as a sovreign nation without any form of control from Belgrade.
The fact is, even if there would be some compromise it would be betwen the two current positions AUTONOMY and INDEPENDENCE and not PRIOR TO 1999 and INDEPENDENCE.
The only compromise that could possibly be found betwen these two oposing positions would be Partition.
Although not completely convinced, i am begging to suspect that partition is the only way forward. Switch northern Kosova for Presheva. I know this is not very popular with some people but its the only way to make sure that this centuries old conflict comes to an end.
Rade you seem to suffer from a superiority complex and that's just why we cannot live in the same country with you anymore.
Cvele: As things are looking at the moment Serbia will lose Kosovo and it just might lose the EU too. No Albanian will agree to being a part of Serbia because of a promise of development. Serbia is not Switzerland itself and the promise of development within an intact Serbia is just ridiculous. Why would we ever settle for that when we can get everything we want:INDEPENDENCE. Do you think your ancestors would have agreed to stay within the Ottoman Empire in order to develop? We won't either. And in any case we can do better ourselves and Kosovo is not for sale as far as we are concerned. Why don't you agree to the independence of Kosovo so that you might develop as part of the EU? I hope you do understand that in the very unlikely event that Kosovo remains part of Serbia, it would just be like stone wight draging Serbia down.
At this rate, Serbia is going to be reduced to the Pashaluk of Belgrade. No one in their right mind would want to live in a country who is dominated by radicals who have such hatered towards other ethnic groups.
We dont want independece because we woke up one morning and decided to punish Serbia. We want independence because it is the only way to ensure a bright future for the our children and grandchildren. They shouldnt have to go through what we did.
Russia is part of Europe when it suits it and part of Asia ... when it suits it. This so-called "European" country has no qualms about holding an entire continent hostage to achieve its ends. I guess you need to be reminded of natural gas suppy interruptions to Western Europe in the dead of winter and the threat to point missiles back to Europe anytime Russia has disagreements with the U.S.
In the mean time, Albania and Serbia don't exactly see eye to eye, yet Albania is importing energy from Serbian companies with no interference from the Serb government that I know of.
Russia's entire foreign policy is based on extortion, thuggery, and self-serving opposition to anything Western.
I'm Albanian and politically speaking, I would much rather climb in bed with a Serb than with a Russian.
Regarding the US meddling in the region, well it does have a right to stick its nose in Europe's affairs so to speak. It is after all the main contributor (militarilly and financially) to most international institutions that are worth their name. The U.S. is the backbone of NATO and in the case of Kosovo and Bosnia it was the U.S. that took the initiative to end the fighting there. It paid in money and blood (U.S. servicemen did die in the region during the hostilities) while Russia, as usual, did all it could to keep the bloodbath going. I know it's not what the Serbs in this forum want to hear, but that is the truth.
Back to the issue at hand:
In my PERSONAL view, the message that's being lost here is that the Albanians do not want to be subjugated to the Serbs.. not even theoretically, not even a little bit. The Serbs are also perfectly entitled to not want to be under Albanian rule.
So both sides should look for an arrangement where both ethnic groups have EQUAL power sharing. This could be achieved in the context of a confederation, federation, independence, who cares ...
Autonomy however, still means that ultimately it is Serbia that will call the shots and considering the bloodshed that occurred, that just won't work for the Albanians.
Wow, some things never change.
I’ve been following this process for quit a long time now. I’ve been amused with many comments but quit frankly they do not shock me. Without even reading the comments I can guess what most of you (Kosovar –Albs or Serbs) are going to argue.
According to some of the interviews that I’ve been watching lately (not reading them, WATCHING them), I’ve been able to understand one thing. Independence is not negotiable. Since this issue is very delicate, EU, US, and maybe Russia are being very careful and taking their time to come up with the best form of independence. Unlike Serbia who has rushed in more wars than any other European country since WWII, the US along with EU are willing to consider different forms of Independence in order to make a smart decision.
Pristina is not going to Vienna with a set decision. They too are going to give new proposals, but they are not going to interfere with independence. I’m quit sure that more Serbian municipalities are going to be offered. Lets face it, Serbia is not moving from broad autonomy just like Pristina is not going to move from the independence. However, Pristina will offer 2-3 new municipalities to Kosovar Serbs and this whole issue will be resolved. Decentralization is going to play a big part.
I don't want it but KosovO should go with major stipulations. They should not be admitted to the UN but without any vote for at least 10yrs. Within this time they should work to have all those refugees who 'want' to come back to Kosovo a first step. Also Serbian troops should be allowed back into Serb Enclaves under the title of 'Nato soldiers'. The Northern Part should be made autonomous and if no Serb refugees return in 3yrs then the North should succeed to Serbia. Serbian language should be an equal language to Albanian throughout Kosovo as well.
I feel its important we keep Serbs in Kosovo otherwise everything Serb there will die and go to ruins. Our history there one day will sound like a fairy tale story as if we never existed there. If they wish to only succeed a small portion of the North to us then I'm for Srpska becoming independent at the same time. Russia and Serbia to recognize them first.
Autonomy means freedom to run local affairs only. However, the Albanians would still remain Serbian citizens, serve in the Serbian army and allow Belgrade to run foreign policy for them. In other words they're expected to live and die under/for the Serbian flag. I don't know about you, but in my book that still means living "under the Serbian boot."
After the events of the 90's I hope you'll understand why Kosovar Albanians aren't exactly thrilled about such an honor bestowed to them by Serbia.
As for the rest of the arguments, they're only ridiculous to you because you don't like hearing them. They make perfect sense to the Albanians and a brief search on sites like Wikipedia or Encyclopedia Britannica would probably enlighten you too.
The history of Kosovo is a series of events. Serbian defeat against the Ottomans and the NATO attacks are just 2 points in its history. There are plenty more to consider.
After reading the "fascinating"comments in here and other important news,from now on I will support partition and I want Kosova to be indenpendent A.S.A.P
There is no life together between Albanians and Serbs!
Who we are kidding here!!!
Some of the commentators here want to build walls around areas populated by Albanians,some of them openly talk about killing Albanians in self defence,they want us to cross the mountain and go to Albania then swim to Italy,they want us to move to Albania,they deny our existence as human being,they brand us as a terrorists,they tell us to integrate to the country we live in,in other words they are telling us to stop living!!!
My dear friends,Albanians are one nation,from Tirana to Prishtina,from Skopje to Tetova.
I am proud to be Albanian!
We have one Flag,we share the same history,language,we are UNITED.
Soon, a second Albanian state in Europe will be ready to take of.I think the justice has prevailed.
Thats easy ahmed,
Serbs were cleansed during WWII by the nazi albanians, then tito opened the floodgates with albania to destabilize and weaken serbia (the strongest republic by far so that jugoslavija could live), and last but not least because of the cultural war waged against serbs, and if that weren't enough, violence perpetrated against average serbs on a daily basis and the resulting ethnic cleansing that resulted because of the blind eye that Tito turned.
Some perspective on the title:
Priština: No alternative to independence
Serbia is a very patient country; we never lost our identity under the Turks and finally rose up and reclaimed what belonged to our forefathers! A few Albanian posters on b92 threatening violence and the inevitability of independence is more of a laughingstock to Serbs who know their history than anything else. We have faced much more formidable enemies in the past and have shown that we are ready to sacrifice every last citizen for our nation. Albanians will claim that this is fanatical, but why would we give up the country in which we live? Where else would we go? In the past world wars, we have sacrificed per capita more sons than any other nation for the cause of freedom. That alone speaks volumes.
For anyone that questions Serbian resolve, please use WWI as a case study to see how we persevere in the face of injustice and blackmail.
The unrest we see in KiM is but a nuisance compared to all we have suffered through. Believe us, we can wait even a thousand more years till things are resolved.
I will be posting some epic Kosovo poems which show that KiM pulsates with Serbian energy now and forever.
This is how the choice have been framed: do you want partition of Kosovo, or the supervised the independence of Kosovo that ensures that Serbs and minorities under Pristina have rights and guarantees? Hard choice? I say have both!
Just like Belgrade needs to understand that Kosovo is no longer Serbia, Pristina has to understand that N Kosovo is no longer Kosovo.
Trading N Kosovo for Presevo is nonesense because Pristina does not control N Kosovo, but Belgrade still indeed does control Presevo. Legally and de facto, N. Kosovo and Presevo are part of Serbia, while Presevo is also part of Serbia proper. The rest of Kosovo is only de facto not part of Serbia.
Both sides need to know that they must give up what they have de facto lost, and accept their commitments in protecting any minorities 'left behind' in their borders.
The basic plan I just outlined is basically Ahtissari's plan allowing N Kosovo to remain in Serbia--a good compromise which politicians will not have the courage to adopt, and which rabid nationalists will instinctively attack.
As far as the Pandora's Box in Presevo or Republic Srpska, that is nonsense, especially if they are discouraged from Belgrade, Prishtina or Sarajevo.
Dan: you have slightly misunderstood the situation. The two extremes are autonomy and independence and it seems that there is no middle ground at all. The suggestion that Kosovo and Serbia join in a federation of sorts as equal partners which could be the middle ground is actually so ridiculous as not to deserve any serious contemplation. Complete integration in Serbia on the other hand is simply not a factor at all. The only compromise would be that Belgrade holds on to the Northern bit of Kosov where there are very few Albanians anyway. I think this is actually in the best interest of K-Albanians because such a move would greatly reduce the Serb element in a new independent Kosovo and the problems they are bound to create at the instigation of Belgrade.
Quote "A true compromise is somewhere in the middle of the two opposite extremes both sides are asking for, on one side you have full intergration into Serbia, on the other side you have full independence, and in the middle you have autonomy, which Serbia is willing to offer. So the only side making a mockery out of negotiations is the uncompromising Albanian delegation."
you must be kidding yourself! those are not the two extremes, one extreme might be full intergration into Serbia like you say, but the other extreme than has to be full independence of Kosova and Presheva valley, the freedom of these territories to keep the albanian flag as their flag and the choice to join albania at any point. These would be extremes...asking for independce of Kosova is more like being somewhere in the middle...and Kosova is willing to be somewhere in the middle... now who is the side not willing to make negotiations?
"What other reason could there be for not excepting full autonomy under outside supervision? Fear of Serbian dominance? With supervision that would not be possible. So what excuse will they come up with next? Watch how fast the K-Albans will accept autonomy once the West removes their backing of independence! This is the only option for long-term peace."
The point is to move away from the status quo. What you suggest is status quo. Why should Albanians have to live under Serbs when Serbs don't want to live under Albanians. It doesn't make sense to me.
I wouldn't be as sure as you are about Albanians accepting autonomy in the case things go really really bad for us. The Albanians do not want to have anything to do with the Serb government even if its just symbolic or nominal. That is where things stand for us. Once you and every average Serb gets that then things will move forward.
Princ lazar your post is the biggest joke of the century.
Please and i say Please again , tell why Albanians are over 95% in Kosova , if we just came to kosova 50 or 100 years ago?
Secomnd question, Why serbia would allow such think ?
You need to see a doctor my friend.No matter how hard serbia tried to do away with its original inhabitants which are Abanians, BUT they never succeded.
Kosova is never going to be excepted as Independent state, from two brothers Serbs and Russians…because rusa+serbia=slavorthodoks…and both have their hand with blood…Serbia in her last Balkan war, and ruse with her own federal republics …if kosova is excepted independence from Serbia sanxhak and vojvodina is gone forever, if ruse excepted his federation state going to be juperdist….Europe countries have same problems with their on regions, but they do not tred them as a second class, that way they are more interested in balkan peace.
Remember all what the President of Kosovo said, no alternatives. That is all i will say. Sounds like more predictions like PM Ceku made in May about independence. There are more than meets the eyes or ears. Prepare yourselves for serious words.
Quote "A true compromise is somewhere in the middle of the two opposite extremes both sides are asking for, on one side you have full intergration into Serbia, on the other side you have full independence, and in the middle you have autonomy, which Serbia is willing to offer. So the only side making a mockery out of negotiations is the uncompromising Albanian delegation."
you must be kidding yourself! those are not the two extremes, one extreme might be full intergration into Serbia like you say, but the other extreme than has to be full independence of Kosova and Presheva valley, the freedom of these territories to keep the albanian flag as their flag and the choice to join albania at any point. These would be extremes...asking for independce of Kosova is more like being somewhere in the middle...and Kosova is willing to be somewhere in the middle... now who is the side not willing to make negotiations?
Rade you seem to suffer from a superiority complex and that's just why we cannot live in the same country with you anymore.
Cvele: As things are looking at the moment Serbia will lose Kosovo and it just might lose the EU too. No Albanian will agree to being a part of Serbia because of a promise of development. Serbia is not Switzerland itself and the promise of development within an intact Serbia is just ridiculous. Why would we ever settle for that when we can get everything we want:INDEPENDENCE. Do you think your ancestors would have agreed to stay within the Ottoman Empire in order to develop? We won't either. And in any case we can do better ourselves and Kosovo is not for sale as far as we are concerned. Why don't you agree to the independence of Kosovo so that you might develop as part of the EU? I hope you do understand that in the very unlikely event that Kosovo remains part of Serbia, it would just be like stone wight draging Serbia down.
At this rate, Serbia is going to be reduced to the Pashaluk of Belgrade. No one in their right mind would want to live in a country who is dominated by radicals who have such hatered towards other ethnic groups.
We dont want independece because we woke up one morning and decided to punish Serbia. We want independence because it is the only way to ensure a bright future for the our children and grandchildren. They shouldnt have to go through what we did.
Wow, some things never change.
I’ve been following this process for quit a long time now. I’ve been amused with many comments but quit frankly they do not shock me. Without even reading the comments I can guess what most of you (Kosovar –Albs or Serbs) are going to argue.
According to some of the interviews that I’ve been watching lately (not reading them, WATCHING them), I’ve been able to understand one thing. Independence is not negotiable. Since this issue is very delicate, EU, US, and maybe Russia are being very careful and taking their time to come up with the best form of independence. Unlike Serbia who has rushed in more wars than any other European country since WWII, the US along with EU are willing to consider different forms of Independence in order to make a smart decision.
Pristina is not going to Vienna with a set decision. They too are going to give new proposals, but they are not going to interfere with independence. I’m quit sure that more Serbian municipalities are going to be offered. Lets face it, Serbia is not moving from broad autonomy just like Pristina is not going to move from the independence. However, Pristina will offer 2-3 new municipalities to Kosovar Serbs and this whole issue will be resolved. Decentralization is going to play a big part.
It is about time that the Serbian politicians admitted that partition is the best/only option.Serbs do not want to be ruled by Albanians and vice versa, stop wasteing Serbian taxpayers money and get on with your lives.
It was stated in a number of occasions from Serbian politicians that what they are willing to offer is "anything but independence". While to you and a number of other Europeans who may or may not know much about Serbian politics that can sound as if the Serbs are offering a number of alternatives, the truth is that those alternatives are basically the same thing "autonomy".
So, if all you can offer is Autonomy and all we can accept is Independence then i suppose it would be fair to assume that both sides are making a mockery of these "negotiations".
Furthermore, the US can not revoke its position of support for independence because the know that if they do so the Europeans are too weak to solve this issue on their own or take any decision whatsoever, which suits Serbia enormously and guarantees the creation of a frozen conflict which will eventually unfreeze and throw the entire region into chaos.
The Americans know fully well that the Albanians are the key to stability in this part of the Balkans and abandoning them is a recipe for disaster.
Besides, why would the US revoke its position when Russia has not even hinted at revoking theirs? Yes the Russians have achieved the great goal of being as vague as possible with their "compromise" rhetoric, but they have also stated quite clearly that any solution must be in compliance with 1244 and must preserve the territorial integrity of Serbia.
Kate,
Can you tell me what you means by "talks". I consider these 120 days just a time bought to try to accomodate Russia with the indipendence as a natural outcome. Do you really believe that there are still issues left for discussion? If so, can you mention them?
Prepare yourselves for a deluge of empty slogans from the supporters of the Kosovo Albanian junta. Princip, if the inane chatter coming from the pro-junta posters is any sort of indicator, there will be no lateral thinking from Ceku, Sejdiu et al. More's the pity for them.
The Kosovo Albanians will attend the talks. They will posture and threaten. If they overdo it they'll render themselves irrelevant and a deal will be struck with Serbia only.
Serbia has sovereignty over Kosovo and Metohija and has weathered the storm thus far. The only threat it is actually faced with is a vague; 'This could delay your entry into the EU'.
Sure, the US has said Kosovo will be independent 'one way or another'. Virtual independence, with no border changes.
More recently, Wisner said the troika will not interfere or impose solutions or deadlines. And the US has warned Ceku against declaring independence unilaterally.
The US may have been dead-set on gifting part of Serbia to the Kosovo Albanian leadership but it has become blatantly obvious that the moment has passed.
Events have overtaken that plan and the last gasp at rescuing it is convincing Serbia to accept partition. If the Serbs politely decline the offer of a lesser land grab it will be time for the real 'plan B' to be unveiled.
The US will wring some painful concessions from Serbia in return for territorial integrity, giving the Kosovo Albanians some real elements of sovereignty and that will be the final offer.
Simple Nick... Russia is in Europe.... The Yanks aint! Russia seeks a solution that is acceptable to BOTH Beograd and Pristina whilst America wants a NATO puppet state that can ONLY be acceptable to Pristina.
Maybe we should all salute the higher intelligence of the US think tank. After all, as you pointed out, America knows that the happiness of the Albanians is the key to peace in the Balkans! Why didn't us humble Europeans think of that! Thankyou, on behalf of the affected land mass that is Europe.... thankyou and God bless America!
Princip: I agree with you that a win-win deal would be the best outcome. However we have very different ideas on what constitutes a win-win deal. For us anything less than independence is not a win-win anything. (Let alone anything proposed by Russia that has made its hostility to Albanians abundantly clear) The only thing left to discuss as far as the K-Albanians are concerned is what shape an independent Kosovo will take and what rights the minorities will have. This are the only areas where we are willing to compromise as we have already shown by agreeing to grant the K-Serbs a far wider autonomy than Serbia ever granted the Albanians. The other possible compromise I guess would be swaping Northern Kosovo for Presevo.
And Princip before being an European issue - which it is - this is an Albanian - Serb issue and we have much more faith in the commitment of the US to achieve independence for Kosovo than in that of the EU where several members, e.g. Greece, have a long history of antagonism with the Albanians. The US is our safest bet that there will not be an EU-Russia deal to the detriment of Kosovo's independence.
The Kosova Leadership will promote and protect the best interests of the citizens of Kosova, and not the best interests of as you put it "ALL".
"win-win" is a fiction of your imagination. Win-win is like a 30 year old man beating a 10 year old kid to death and then asking him to live under the same roof.
For someone who posts not only in B92 but other forums too i can only assume 2 things: 1) You either dont know much about Kosova, its people and history; or 2) You are deliberately trying to misinform the readers of these forums regarding the true intentions of the state of Serbia.
Princip,
You are speaking for a win-win situation. In fact, Kosova will win its indipendence and Serbia will win its liberation from what is keeping away from the democratic family of nations.
As soon Serbia will realize it the better.
Perhaps i should also remind you that the EU agrees with the US on the principle of Independence. They too agree that Kosova should be independent.
The differences betwen the two appear when we start talking abou the "way to achieve such independence"
Any attempt to sideline the US by claiming the EU and Russia are together on this is in vain, since the EU has quite clearly stated in several occasions that they fully support the Ahtisari Plan.
Oh and Princip, please stop trying to manipulate public opinion on these issues, it siply wont work in the 21st century.
Once again, The EU has stated in a counltess number of occastions that they fully support the Ahtisari Plan.
When it comes to the principle issue of whether Kosova should have its independence Serbia and Russia are alone in objecting.
"So, if all you can offer is Autonomy and all we can accept is Independence then i suppose it would be fair to assume that both sides are making a mockery of these "negotiations". "
A true compromise is somewhere in the middle of the two opposite extremes both sides are asking for, on one side you have full intergration into Serbia, on the other side you have full independence, and in the middle you have autonomy, which Serbia is willing to offer. So the only side making a mockery out of negotiations is the uncompromising Albanian delegation.
"Kosova will win its indipendence and Serbia will win its liberation from what is keeping away from the democratic family of nations."
Exactly.
Adem Demaci:
“the same mechanism which keeps by sheer violence both
Albanians and other peoples in captivity, has been hindering democratisation in Serbia for 100 years.”
Marx (on British rule in Ireland):
“a nation oppressing another nation can never itself be free”
Dan: you have slightly misunderstood the situation. The two extremes are autonomy and independence and it seems that there is no middle ground at all. The suggestion that Kosovo and Serbia join in a federation of sorts as equal partners which could be the middle ground is actually so ridiculous as not to deserve any serious contemplation. Complete integration in Serbia on the other hand is simply not a factor at all. The only compromise would be that Belgrade holds on to the Northern bit of Kosov where there are very few Albanians anyway. I think this is actually in the best interest of K-Albanians because such a move would greatly reduce the Serb element in a new independent Kosovo and the problems they are bound to create at the instigation of Belgrade.
The 120 days that Russia bought for Serbia is just the time that Serbian DSS leadership is using to stirr up a new conflict, further we go, it will get worse, since they have a diplomatic machinery and the money to do so.
How far will they go? Remains to be seen.
They are making one BIG mistake though.
US will not be bullied, they were not bullied in the Cold War let alone by a bunch of cowboys from DSS.
The US will let them know quietly, the rules of engagement in this diplomatic fiasco for Serbs (DSS)
Nick I agree with your posts and I do see myself voting for your posts.
Don't pay attention to Princ Kate they just would love to misinform everyone and blame "terrorist/albanians/kosovo albanian" do you see how every time someone mentions the media they come up with the answer ever "the west has this and that."
120 days are going by and independence is the only way forward. belgrade can't integrate 2.2 million people into its corrupt system nor do the Kosovars want to do anything with belgrade. They compromised a lot
not joining with Albania
agreeing to Ahtisari plan.
Russia is part of Europe when it suits it and part of Asia ... when it suits it. This so-called "European" country has no qualms about holding an entire continent hostage to achieve its ends. I guess you need to be reminded of natural gas suppy interruptions to Western Europe in the dead of winter and the threat to point missiles back to Europe anytime Russia has disagreements with the U.S.
In the mean time, Albania and Serbia don't exactly see eye to eye, yet Albania is importing energy from Serbian companies with no interference from the Serb government that I know of.
Russia's entire foreign policy is based on extortion, thuggery, and self-serving opposition to anything Western.
I'm Albanian and politically speaking, I would much rather climb in bed with a Serb than with a Russian.
Regarding the US meddling in the region, well it does have a right to stick its nose in Europe's affairs so to speak. It is after all the main contributor (militarilly and financially) to most international institutions that are worth their name. The U.S. is the backbone of NATO and in the case of Kosovo and Bosnia it was the U.S. that took the initiative to end the fighting there. It paid in money and blood (U.S. servicemen did die in the region during the hostilities) while Russia, as usual, did all it could to keep the bloodbath going. I know it's not what the Serbs in this forum want to hear, but that is the truth.
Back to the issue at hand:
In my PERSONAL view, the message that's being lost here is that the Albanians do not want to be subjugated to the Serbs.. not even theoretically, not even a little bit. The Serbs are also perfectly entitled to not want to be under Albanian rule.
So both sides should look for an arrangement where both ethnic groups have EQUAL power sharing. This could be achieved in the context of a confederation, federation, independence, who cares ...
Autonomy however, still means that ultimately it is Serbia that will call the shots and considering the bloodshed that occurred, that just won't work for the Albanians.
Autonomy means freedom to run local affairs only. However, the Albanians would still remain Serbian citizens, serve in the Serbian army and allow Belgrade to run foreign policy for them. In other words they're expected to live and die under/for the Serbian flag. I don't know about you, but in my book that still means living "under the Serbian boot."
After the events of the 90's I hope you'll understand why Kosovar Albanians aren't exactly thrilled about such an honor bestowed to them by Serbia.
As for the rest of the arguments, they're only ridiculous to you because you don't like hearing them. They make perfect sense to the Albanians and a brief search on sites like Wikipedia or Encyclopedia Britannica would probably enlighten you too.
The history of Kosovo is a series of events. Serbian defeat against the Ottomans and the NATO attacks are just 2 points in its history. There are plenty more to consider.
After reading the "fascinating"comments in here and other important news,from now on I will support partition and I want Kosova to be indenpendent A.S.A.P
There is no life together between Albanians and Serbs!
Who we are kidding here!!!
Some of the commentators here want to build walls around areas populated by Albanians,some of them openly talk about killing Albanians in self defence,they want us to cross the mountain and go to Albania then swim to Italy,they want us to move to Albania,they deny our existence as human being,they brand us as a terrorists,they tell us to integrate to the country we live in,in other words they are telling us to stop living!!!
My dear friends,Albanians are one nation,from Tirana to Prishtina,from Skopje to Tetova.
I am proud to be Albanian!
We have one Flag,we share the same history,language,we are UNITED.
Soon, a second Albanian state in Europe will be ready to take of.I think the justice has prevailed.
Princ lazar your post is the biggest joke of the century.
Please and i say Please again , tell why Albanians are over 95% in Kosova , if we just came to kosova 50 or 100 years ago?
Secomnd question, Why serbia would allow such think ?
You need to see a doctor my friend.No matter how hard serbia tried to do away with its original inhabitants which are Abanians, BUT they never succeded.
Serbia, needs to show maturity by attending with an open mind and great willingness to think out of the box and discussing all the possible avenues without prejudice - this what "negotiations" in such early stages should be - bit like a brainstorming session in so many ways. Yes Serbia can bring it's proposal but it must be willing to show all the pro's and con's of it and highlight its merits against all the other possible scenario's. Serbia needs to be very positive about these "negotiations" for it has all to gain through them as do the ethnic-Albanians if they think out of the box too since all can win-win.
"“We will confirm our final and unwavering position that Kosovo’s independence has no alternative,” Fatmir Sejdiu, Kosovo president and leader of the team, said Thursday."
JHam - I am intrigued to know what you mean.
Seems to me that it makes a mockery of any 'negotiations' when one side refuses to even consider any outcome other than the one they go in with.
As Mike said yesterday, the US needs to revoke their role in the wings of saying that independence will be delivered regardless.
If the US starts supporting true and open negotiations for the benefit of all, it would win the respect of many European countries. At the moment it seems as though they are deliberately sabotaging talks.
I would not be so negative regarding the "negotiations" that are about to start and I do believe a "European compromise" is possible form the 2 "European" members of the Troika i.e. the EU & Russia - after all this is a "European" issue and theer should be a way forward for the continent of Europe to resolve matters based upon an inclusive nature which respects human rights for all and international law.
Surely you can see the merits of such a win-win way forward? Hopefully the local leadership in Serbia's southern province want what is in the best interets of all too!
Princip, we all start from the premise that others are similar to us. Sadly though, the Kosovo Albanian leadership is only concerned with maintaining its grip on power. They do not have the interests of their people at heart.
We can expect them to instigate violence against the Serbian population and even NATO, if they calculate that this works in their favour. Mr Montgomery said as much in his recent article.
Nick: I agree that some real alternatives need to be put on the table, and hopefully that is what is now happening.
Serbia is part of Europe, therefore I don't believe that the US should rush in with a one-sided approach involving handing over another country's sovereign territory - even if, as you say, Europe appears unable to solve the issue.
America is a powerful nation but should act within the UN. I don't believe it should not act unilaterally which could lead to the security in the region being terribly damaged.
Not only because of the knock-on effect in Serbia and other countries, but also by bypassing international law. There has been enough of that already and it's becoming very fragile.
The key to security in the region is not appeasing the Albanians in Kosovo at all - it's relations with the countries throughout the Balkans. How can being onside with one independence seeking ethnicity be more important than building relations with state governments?
You are talking about a single ethnic group (which already has a country of its own in the region) being given independence against the will of its sovereign nation.
This was signed and sealed when 1244 was established, confirming territorial integrity of Serbia.
Also, the comparisons that you are drawing between the position of the Serbian government and the provincial Kosovo government cannot be viewed equally.
The former already holds the land legally, and the latter wishes to break away. I agree that a realistic approach must be taken to solving this problem but you can't equate the two.
Lastly, you draw similar comparisons between what you describe as Russian intransigence in the UN and the US making its own moves away from the process. These cannot be compared either.
Russia has used its veto in the Security Council less than the UK and the US in the years since WWII. The SC is set up to provide for its members to have the right to veto. That's the whole point (rightly or wrongly).
I would never blindly follow Russian policy but I do believe that Putin is absolutely right about this. It is a matter of international security, and there cannot be any case where boundaries can be withdrawn against the will of a sovereign nation in order to appease any ethnic group. It has to be done with the state in question in agreement.
I think that a solution can be found to suit both with clever diplomacy. But not while false hopes are being fed to one side.
And 'shqiptar' - I would never call the previous talks a true bid to find a solution. The parties met about once a month and independence was decided as the goal virtually from day 1.
Nick: "Oh and Princip, please stop trying to manipulate public opinion on these issues, it siply wont work in the 21st century."
The (true and not imagined) manipulation of public opinion by the mass media has played a major part in international affairs during the past 10 years!!
Plus, the EU is not 100% with the US in favour of independence. They are split, which is one of the major problems.
Nick
"The Americans know fully well that the Albanians are the key to stability in this part of the Balkans and abandoning them is a recipe for disaster."
Hah. Key how? If not then there will be terrorist attacks? The albans have no military. Even albania has no military. Like 500 000 pill bunkers in case they are attacked but those are self made coffins that would be useless in holding back a military
Key to Balkan stability and EU prize in the Balkans is and always will be Belgrade, Serbia.
Nick,
I fully agree with your comments about the known positions of the EU and the US. Serbia and Russia are alone to object. All this in light of almost daily attacks against Hungarians and Roma in reduced current Serbia. Seeing all this why would K-Albanians have the slightest hesitation in their determination to get full independence? Who would ever like to return to his oppressor?
This is how the choice have been framed: do you want partition of Kosovo, or the supervised the independence of Kosovo that ensures that Serbs and minorities under Pristina have rights and guarantees? Hard choice? I say have both!
Just like Belgrade needs to understand that Kosovo is no longer Serbia, Pristina has to understand that N Kosovo is no longer Kosovo.
Trading N Kosovo for Presevo is nonesense because Pristina does not control N Kosovo, but Belgrade still indeed does control Presevo. Legally and de facto, N. Kosovo and Presevo are part of Serbia, while Presevo is also part of Serbia proper. The rest of Kosovo is only de facto not part of Serbia.
Both sides need to know that they must give up what they have de facto lost, and accept their commitments in protecting any minorities 'left behind' in their borders.
The basic plan I just outlined is basically Ahtissari's plan allowing N Kosovo to remain in Serbia--a good compromise which politicians will not have the courage to adopt, and which rabid nationalists will instinctively attack.
As far as the Pandora's Box in Presevo or Republic Srpska, that is nonsense, especially if they are discouraged from Belgrade, Prishtina or Sarajevo.
"Surely you can see the merits of such a win-win way forward?"
Do you mean the Serbia-Russia win-win or the Kosovo-EU/USA win-win? Because I really can't see an outcome which would be a win for both Kosovo and Serbia. If you have such a scenario in mind, please give some idea what it consists of.
So what you are saying is that Serbia, would like Kosova to return in the same position it was in 1999 but they beeing "resonable" (however ridiculous that might sound) are offering us autonomy as a compromise.
I dont know if you have noticed but many things have changed since then. Kosova does IN FACT already act as a sovreign nation without any form of control from Belgrade.
The fact is, even if there would be some compromise it would be betwen the two current positions AUTONOMY and INDEPENDENCE and not PRIOR TO 1999 and INDEPENDENCE.
The only compromise that could possibly be found betwen these two oposing positions would be Partition.
Although not completely convinced, i am begging to suspect that partition is the only way forward. Switch northern Kosova for Presheva. I know this is not very popular with some people but its the only way to make sure that this centuries old conflict comes to an end.
R.U. Umbridge
WIN WIN
SERBIA REMAINS WITH ITS BORDERS INTACT AND IS ADMINISTERED INTO THE EU. WITH EU MONITORING KOSOVO 24/7 FOR AS LONG AS NECESSARY.
How is that NOT a win win? Kosovo would actually develop and not like the past 8 years where the situation has been getting from bad to worse on a daily basis. The idea that it will become the next Switzerland is as plausable as Switzarland becoming just like Kosovo.
when sejdulovic and cekulovic and the rest say something like this, i´m completly satisfied due to the fact, that - as usual - the opposite will happen.
but i respect their condition! do you know any other region where telling lies like that for EIGHT (!!) years is making you a popular (!!!!) politician ???
Changing of borders is absolutely not the answer here! Europe has enough countries; creating small non-viable mini states is ridicules. Minorities within larger countries are far better off with some form of autonomy while connected to a larger state sharing resources and governmental responsibilities. If the Albanians are so worried about Serbian repression under autonomy then supervision from the outside UN/EU should alleviate such fears. Of course this fear is just an excuse, Albanians would have everything needed for a prosperous, safe life in an autonomous Kosovo, as would the Serbs. However that is not their goal. The goal is to relegate Serbia to Beograd and the surrounding areas while creating an Albanian Empire along the lines of the old Ottoman Empire. What other reason could there be for not excepting full autonomy under outside supervision? Fear of Serbian dominance? With supervision that would not be possible. So what excuse will they come up with next? Watch how fast the K-Albans will accept autonomy once the West removes their backing of independence! This is the only option for long-term peace.
Lazar - no there is more than one of us, I'm afraid. Anyone can see that I am not Princip in disguise!!
We write differently, think differently, but do share most views on this issue. I am flattered that you think I am also Princip!
(kate, 17. August 2007 16:34)
Lazar, make it three (Canadien) and probably 333 more! It is not possible that all of us are the same person.
Teni
Everyone has their own cross to bear. We are saying we r more then willing to take care of our part in regards to Kosovo development. However, we agree on one thing. KOSOVO is not for SALE. Not for EU, not for NATO, not for one annual GDP of US.
We will retain Kosovo because in every scenario that could possibely come at the end, even worst case scenario, Serbia still officialy owns Kosovo. It gives us claim to the land. Which means that the only legal document (deed)states Kosovo is Serbia proper despite the situation on the ground.
autonomy means autonomy, you should take a look into the dictionary if you do not know what that means.
autonomy provides the Albanians with self-rule, what they already could exercise if the UNMIK-forces would not be there.
the only thing Albanians would have to accept for that is that there must not be any stealing of land.
it is Serbia and no illyrian-nonsense whatsoever can help them to get that land, since their moral or historical justifications are truly ridiculous.
so the bottomline is:
autonomy is in fact the best solution since it would provide the Albanians with their wish "not to live under serbian boot", and it would assure that there is no change of borders, what is the interest of the Republic of Serbia.
"What other reason could there be for not excepting full autonomy under outside supervision? Fear of Serbian dominance? With supervision that would not be possible. So what excuse will they come up with next? Watch how fast the K-Albans will accept autonomy once the West removes their backing of independence! This is the only option for long-term peace."
The point is to move away from the status quo. What you suggest is status quo. Why should Albanians have to live under Serbs when Serbs don't want to live under Albanians. It doesn't make sense to me.
I wouldn't be as sure as you are about Albanians accepting autonomy in the case things go really really bad for us. The Albanians do not want to have anything to do with the Serb government even if its just symbolic or nominal. That is where things stand for us. Once you and every average Serb gets that then things will move forward.
I don't want it but KosovO should go with major stipulations. They should not be admitted to the UN but without any vote for at least 10yrs. Within this time they should work to have all those refugees who 'want' to come back to Kosovo a first step. Also Serbian troops should be allowed back into Serb Enclaves under the title of 'Nato soldiers'. The Northern Part should be made autonomous and if no Serb refugees return in 3yrs then the North should succeed to Serbia. Serbian language should be an equal language to Albanian throughout Kosovo as well.
I feel its important we keep Serbs in Kosovo otherwise everything Serb there will die and go to ruins. Our history there one day will sound like a fairy tale story as if we never existed there. If they wish to only succeed a small portion of the North to us then I'm for Srpska becoming independent at the same time. Russia and Serbia to recognize them first.
I always get a chuckle when I hear the Albanian mantra of "we will never be ruled by Beograd again." NEWS FLASH: That’s what you've been saying since you arrived in Kosovo, 50 and a 100 years ago!!
In the end, I don't believe that it matters at all whether Albanian settlements bow the knee at all. What matters is that Serbs control all of their own settlements, that is, the north, and all of the smaller regions throughout KiM.
An added bonus will be when Serbian border guards are eventually allowed on the Albanian and Macedonia borders, but this is not essential. Reinforced with an albeit symbolic Serbian military and police contingent, the message will be even more clear to any reasonable person. Pollyannaish elements of our Albanian friends will still insist that they are independent etc. If independence means that you will be in charge of your own local governance, than more power to you! However, the soil that you currently walk on and will walk on is Serbian! That is a guarantee that every Serb and international law will give you till the end of time.
Thats easy ahmed,
Serbs were cleansed during WWII by the nazi albanians, then tito opened the floodgates with albania to destabilize and weaken serbia (the strongest republic by far so that jugoslavija could live), and last but not least because of the cultural war waged against serbs, and if that weren't enough, violence perpetrated against average serbs on a daily basis and the resulting ethnic cleansing that resulted because of the blind eye that Tito turned.
Some perspective on the title:
Priština: No alternative to independence
Serbia is a very patient country; we never lost our identity under the Turks and finally rose up and reclaimed what belonged to our forefathers! A few Albanian posters on b92 threatening violence and the inevitability of independence is more of a laughingstock to Serbs who know their history than anything else. We have faced much more formidable enemies in the past and have shown that we are ready to sacrifice every last citizen for our nation. Albanians will claim that this is fanatical, but why would we give up the country in which we live? Where else would we go? In the past world wars, we have sacrificed per capita more sons than any other nation for the cause of freedom. That alone speaks volumes.
For anyone that questions Serbian resolve, please use WWI as a case study to see how we persevere in the face of injustice and blackmail.
The unrest we see in KiM is but a nuisance compared to all we have suffered through. Believe us, we can wait even a thousand more years till things are resolved.
I will be posting some epic Kosovo poems which show that KiM pulsates with Serbian energy now and forever.
Kosova is never going to be excepted as Independent state, from two brothers Serbs and Russians…because rusa+serbia=slavorthodoks…and both have their hand with blood…Serbia in her last Balkan war, and ruse with her own federal republics …if kosova is excepted independence from Serbia sanxhak and vojvodina is gone forever, if ruse excepted his federation state going to be juperdist….Europe countries have same problems with their on regions, but they do not tred them as a second class, that way they are more interested in balkan peace.
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