Russia denies support for Kosovo partition

I still do not understand what is all the fuss about. Kosovo is from Serbia as the Eiffel Tower is from France. The problem started when someone at the UN appointed Martti Ahtisaari for evaluation of the situation of the Serb province and he came out with a very weird solution which no one, in his right mind, would accept.

Kosovo has been an important part of Serbian history, something that Ahtisaari did not even care for. Why should he, if he is a Fin.

José Luis Belmar
Stockholm, Sweden

It would be good to find a "compromise" as soon as possible but until such a solution is found 1244 should be fully implemented and UNMIK has a continued responsibility for it's mission to return all displaced people.

No, but Ahtisaari has been, the one , if you know, who was given the mandate from UN to propose a solution. George Bush merely is accepting what UN mediator suggested within his mandate.
(miri, 14. August 2007 17:41)

Ahtisaari?Who the hell is that? His plan died long time ago...

Although everyone is denying it now it seems to me that Ischinger was serious when he said that they would accept partition. The Troika was probably testing the waters to see how the issue would be received. Publicly both the Serb and Kosovo governments have distanced themselves from the idea but who knows what they really discussed with the Troika on this possibility?
When you think of it partition is actually the only viable compromise. Serbia says it wants all of Kosovo to stay part of Serbia and Kosovo wants all of Kosovo to become independent. Hence the only compromise would be that each party gets part of its wish. It is the way they go about it that seems to be the problem. Neither Serbia nor Kosovo can publicly agree to partition. So in the end Kosovo will probably declare independence unilateraly and the northern bit will seccede from Kosovo thus creating facts on the ground. Eventually both sides will come to agree to the de facto division and that will be the ed of it. This seems to be the most likely scenario. The only unknown is how Presevo Albanians would take it.
Princip on the troubles in Kosovo if it doesn't get independence: anything less than independence would be considered as defeat and humiliation by the K-Albanians. Now you can argue all you want about the rights and wrongs of it, but most Albanians see the independence of Kosovo as the rectification of an historical injustice that was done to them when the Great Powers decided to allow Serbia to keep Kosovo. If the actual Great Powers decide once again to stop Kosovo from being independent - which I do not think they will - the K-Albanians would by no means accept that. And don't forget, when the KLA started its fight they didn't even dream that the war would end as quickly as it did. They were prepared for a long fight. If Kosovo is denied independence it would simply mean that the KLA would continue its fight. Kosovo War Part II as it were. And that is the trouble I was talking about.

"So Kate or Princip,and anyone else have you ever been in Kosovo?"
Has George W. Bush been to Kosovo?

Seems like this is an example of tenuous news reports by the media (some would say that these have been politically motivated to test the water on a particular idea).

A journalist asked whether partition was an option and the response was that nothing was off the table. That was all.

It obviously has been an option all along. This is still the annexation of territory, but I can't see any other realistic alternative.

If a partition ever did happen, then obviously areas like Pec and Decani have to remain somehow part of Serbia (and yes, I do know the geographical layout), as well as the north of the province.

And any discussions about adding on other areas along ethnic lines (such as put forward by Predictor) should not even come into play. That is the danger of setting a precedent, even under partition - that it is still creating an ethnically based boundary. Ironic when one of the main aims of the 1999 campaign by Nato was to 'create a multi-ethnic Kosovo' [George Robertson, remember?].

I don't think that Serbia should have to give up any land at all, but I haven't heard any other realistic option for how to run things on the ground as they are. Am I missing something?

Princip - I agree completely about fulfilling Res. 1244.

Teni: "Serbia says it wants all of Kosovo to stay part of Serbia and Kosovo wants all of Kosovo to become independent. Hence the only compromise would be that each party gets part of its wish."

This is what I have a problem with; the way that both of these elements are presented by you and others on an equal basis. You said it yourself, Kosovo is part of Serbia already.

Any partition or 'compromise' is not on the equal terms of the people who want to annex the territory, but a concession by the sovereign state to keep peace and move forward.

The international community now clearly sees this. Especially the EU cannot afford to give in to threats of unrest or violence.

Princip by the way: As I have told you repeatedly the best interest of Serbia is something no Albanian loses sleep over. If your Montenegrin brothers do not care to share their fate with you, forget about the Albanians doing so. On the contrary you are viewed as enemies and the worse off you are the better for us. After all one is allowed to be cynical about the fate of his enemies. A weaker Serbia = a weaker enemy.
As for Montgomery's article: It is simply a personal reading of the situation and Montgomery is by no means omniscient. At least he is sincere when he says that his views are influenced by his association to Serbia.
As for the violence: I did not make any predictions on who would win and so forth. The problem is that there would be violence and believe me that most Albanians in the world would do everything they can to support any actions against Serbia in Kosovo, regardless of the fact that you migt call it terrorism or extremisms. It is not so to us. We see it as legitimate resistance. On that account Montgomery was right at least. And even though Serbi might be much stronger militarily it would take forever to stop an insurgency or guerrila war. Ask your Russian budies about that and they will tell you about Chechnya.

Teni, keep dreaming that same dream, as a Serb im not worried. Dreams of a illegally formed country taken from Serbia unjustly isnt going to happen. You talk about the kla like its a greatest assembly of "soldiers" ever. Sure they were trained by the U.S. but if albanians draw first blood, well then its GAME OVER. It wont be only the Serbs, but UN troops as well. Your kla is still a bunch of farmers dressed in camo.

Both Pristina and Belgrade expressed outrage over the idea of partition--this was expected since both will initially insist on not making concessions to the other side. It was also expected that the Great Powers distanced themselves from the idea of partition since they do not want to be seen again as imposing a solution. Nevertheless, what Ischinger rightfully did was put a very good and previously barred option on the table. The West should not be afraid or apologetic of putting good ideas on the table.

Definitely, I think that all those played games by Internationals are just one more step to make clear to Serbians that there is no any other option except Independence of Kosova, The Serbia has no any democratic tradition in order to keep more 2 million people under its power. There are only 8 years the Serbia tries to kill, massacre, mistreat and take them out from their father land. This is a general known fact.

Kate

Good luck in trying to keep Peja/Pec under serbian rule!!
Your comments really make me laugh sometimes. while you claim to know the geography of kosovo (probably googled the map), you obviously do not know the ethnic make up or the mentality of albanian in Peja/pec region. You have more chance of making Athens part of Serbia than keeping Peja part of Serbia.

Comments like yours and some other people in these posts, are as a result of the fact that you have never been in Kosovo / or spent any considerable time there especially with albanians.

I've said before, while everybody is entitled to their opinion its important to state if they have ever been in Kosovo.

So Kate or Princip,and anyone else have you ever been in Kosovo?

Teni, the "kla" would get destroyed in the matter of days if it were to attack UN troops or Serbs. What world do you live in? There will be no partition of Serbian soil!! End of story!!

Euro Albanian, you say Serbia is not democratic, but you think albanians are??? Come on, get serious!! Im amazed at some of the posts on here, most are factless, baseless, abd just plain sramota! Lets get real!!

Russia up to now has offered no solution except blocking every solution proposed. I can’t wait to see them come up with the solution for Kosova issue.
Resolution 1244 has served its mandate, the time has come for Kosova to move. It is really shame that Russia blocked the resolution, under the Ahtisari package, which gave Serbian minority in Kosova all the rights for self-government in the majority Serb municipalities. In fact Serb in Kosova feel hard done by it. They fell as they are being gambled with from the failed Serbian politicians that want all or nothing, in case of win they get another mandate in soft seat of Belgrade, if nothing, nothing, they lose nothing, it is the Americans and EU to blame. They have tried they even gamble with K-Serbs life’s like many of you suggest. I still believe that people that think this way are in minority proven by B92 site.

Kosova status settlement is prolonged in expense of K-Albanians and K-Serbs. B92 is offering people, like some in here, that don’t even know where Kosova is to place their arguments and to make them feel important. Kosova issue will be solved once the people in Kosova stop listening to people that have no clue about Kosova-Balkans and ask what better suit them without any pressure. Some in here rely in articles written by any journalist that support their ideas of some kind of Balkan Zoo ignoring the fact that there are peoples life’s that we are talking about, also ignoring what most of the diplomats propose.

I suggest to many of you same as nikshala ,come to Kosova and live with Albanians and Serbs for some time, leave your PC and comfortable life’s for a while, come and see for yourselves that we want the same things as you in UK, US, EU, after that feel free to suggest something.
One thing is for sure as we are talking of the talks outcome, remaining 110 days will bring nothing new and that Kosova will never be Serbia again fact known to all of you

Kate: No one is asking to annex anything. If the people of Kosovo ask to be independent that is not annexation but seccession. That's the one element that you constantly underestimate in your comments. Kosovo has a long history and it is very important to both Serbs and Albanians I know that. The simple fact though is that Kosovo is overwhelmingly Albanian (90%), they had autonomy and Serbia decided to revoke it and opress them under Milosevic and then decided to simply ignore any K-Albanian requests for more rights or autonomy. That's what brought about the conflict of 1998-99. Before the war it would have still been possible to achieve a compromise of the sort Belgrade is proposing now, but things have moved too far ahead for that. Just visit Kosovo once and you would understand. How could you believe that a state that tried to expell all the -K-Albanians in a campaign of ethnic cleansing is serious about respecting your rights? The Serbs have not so much as offered an apology for the 10,000 K-Albanian deaths or for the 1 million that were expelled. (And don't tell me they left because of NATO airraids because I have yet to find one single K-Albanian who left in fear of being bombed.) We are simply not prepared to run the risk.
And Kosovo is part of Serbia only on paper. It has been a UN protectorate since 1999. Serbia simply lost any claim it had to Kosovo as far as the population of Kosovo is concerned.

Teni - I can honestly say that there is no bias at all when it comes to individuals. I would condemn any senseless violence and feel sorry for the person at the end of it, regardless of who they were.

I admit bias when it comes to the debate about Serbia not being forced to relinquish Kosovo, but as I have said numerous times my bias is as a European who doesn't want new boundaries to be drawn in this way. ie. Based on avoiding veiled threats of violence; handed as some sort of reward by an outside party to their particular friend of the day; or drawn along mono-ethnic lines.

Ahmet - I have absolutely no need to apologise. In my initial comment I said that I was aware of the geography and I wasn't talking necessarily of Pec or Decani being included in any partition. Just making the point that these are areas of particular significance to Serbs.

So sorry I nearly made you fall out of your chair, but you really should keep all legs on the ground at all times. If you join the EU Health & Safety will become all important.

Nikshala, I've been to Kosovo. I was there in 1997. My family thought I was crazy, but I wanted to visit the Serbian monasteries and historical sites before any violence broke out.

Honestly, I think partition is the only solution. We can sit around the campfire and sing "Kum-bye-ya" and talk about living harmoniously in a multi-ethnic society, but let's get real. Partition and migration is the only solution. All it takes is a little imagination. Serbs could take northern Kosovo and could even trade Presevo for it. The monastery of Pec, could become an independent state like the Vatican, guarded by Greek soldiers. And as Teni suggested, other Serbian Churches can be handed over to UNESCO. Kosovo Albanians get independence, Serbs get some token land they can call Kosovo, they get rid of Presevo (who wants it?), the Serbian Vatican becomes independent, and historical sites are guaranteed protection. Everyone's happy!

Mike, good question, "what is really important"? It is important not to create another artificial (non viable) puppet state in the Balkans like Bosnia/Macedonia. Demographics is not a reason to break up sovereign states and reward rebellious minorities. Full autonomy supervised by the UN/EU is the only long lasting viable solution! Once (if ever) Germany/US withdraws their support for independence as the best solution K-Albanians will have no choice but to agree. It is these two countries that are holding up the final solution.

Partition supposed to be offered in 1999 and not now!
I am not against it but I think it is a bit late for that now.
I don't believe that the Serbian Government will suggest something like that, nor Kosovan Albanians as would be considered as a defeat for both sides.
I like the idea of two independent countries both integrated in Europe and I wouldn't mind confederation within Kosova/o so the Kosovan Serbs would feel safer.
After investing billions in Kosova/o the West should be more clearer about future status of Kosova/o,they should stop promising something they can't deliver!
Kosova/o is only being used as a pawn by US and Russia,I don't think that they care about people of Kosova/o.

Kate, I am sorry but Deqani and Peja are nowehre near serbian border. Get hold of the map and look thoroughly and come back and say that you sorry what nonsence that you wrote.I almost fell from my chair in my offcie when i read your coment.

Kate: I just read your comments on the 11 Serb tourists sentenced in Greece where you urge caution since none of us were there. Strange how you seem to throw caution in the wind when the Serb media reports when any house burns or a Serb suffers so much as a scratch in Kosovo. In those cases you seem to be pretty sure it was an Albanian perpetrator even though you can't possibly have been there. Wouldn't you say that this suggests a certain bias on your part? Just wondering.

"So Kate or Princip,and anyone else have you ever been in Kosovo?"
Has George W. Bush been to Kosovo?

(Roger7, 14. August 2007 14:07)

No - but hundreds of his advisers have been and they have seen it for themselves the situation on the ground.

Do you ever wonder why 95% of the people who have been and visited Kosovo, say that the only possible solution is independence?

If people like Princip and Jovan or Kate were in Kosovo, they would not be suggesting 'win-win' withing Serbia, or autonomy or .... because they would know that it is impossible.

Even they usually sceptic italians, recently said that the idea of returing Kosovo within Serbias rule is 'unthinkable'!

Obiliq: It must make your government really proud to hae such determined people and with such faith in their army. It reminds me of Milosevic time propaganda. But you are forgetting a few little details. If there is a new war - and I sincerely wish there won't be - Serbia will not be able to apply the same tactics as it did last time round. No expulsion and massacres I would guess. And I am really curious to know how your army would deal with what must be a really serious and completely new tactical challenge for them: having to fight actual fighters and not to simply kill and expel civilians. And you are sadly mistaken if you think that the KLA is the same inexperienced army that took on the VJ in 1998. There has been enough time for preparations in these 9 years. I do not doubt that Serbia has a much stronger and better equiped army, but you wouldn't be fighting a conventional war and you shouldn't underestimate the determination and motivation of people who are fightning against a state that as far as they are concerned is an invader.
And given the sorry state of Serbia's economy - the soldiers that fought in Kosovo haven't been paid yet -I do not know how Serbia would be able to wage war at all.
So let's just hope it doesn't come to a fight because whoever wins it in the end, it would last long enough to ruin the whole region. There is a saying by a Croatian author who says that when the Serbs conquered Kosovo in 1912-13 they fulfilled a 500 year old dream but the K-Albanians started dreaming a new dream all of their own.
And Kate I guess that being from Britain and all it must be impossible for you to understand the position of those fighting a liberation war whereas it must come natural to support states supressing such wars. Britain used to be very good at it after all.
And as for the borders: what makes changing the borders tabu? Who decided that the K-Albanians are destined to live under Serbia because the borders must not be changed? The same was said of the borders of Yugoslavia and change they did.

The chances of getting Kosovo back to Serbia are actually smaller than the chances of recreating Yugoslavia, I think.
And Kate if Scotland were to become independent would you give them Manchester?

Dear Kate,I wouldn't mind for any peaceful solution and if partition would be the best and accepted from both sides,then why not.
The area you have mentioned,Peja/Pec and Decani it is 99% polpulated with Albanians,so would be very difficult that they would join Serbia.Areas North of Iber/Ibar maybe would stay with Serbia.So partition it will be a very difficult task which can open the door to more problems and we don't want that.
I am more for confederation within Kosova/o like Mike is suggesting all a long,so Serbs of Kosova would be protected and one day if they are not happy to live together, then they can always ask for divorce like we are asking now.

"I like the idea of two independent countries both integrated in Europe and I wouldn't mind confederation within Kosova/o so the Kosovan Serbs would feel safer"

Now there's an idea, if I read that correctly. Rather than a full scale partiton of Kosova, where the north stays with Serbia and the majority of Kosova Serbs therefore get nothing and Kosova loses mineral wealth; and rather than the bizarre idea, in the post-Yugoslav federation reality, of a confederation between Kosova and Serbia; how about a fully independent but confederal Kosova (or Kosovo/a whatever) consisting of two confederated states, a erb and an Albanian one - similar tot he plan proposed by the UN for Cyprus.

Partition is the key to reaching a solution but not the full answer. The Ahtissari plan with all of its provisions to provide rights and guarantees to the minorities would have been an acceptable had it also allowed N. Kosovo to remain in Serbia. The provisions addressing minorities must be a part of the solution since a majority of Serbs (and their cultural and religious sites) still live in areas controlled by Pristina. These sites need to be protected, especially after partition.

The question on where to draw the border is sometimes seen as a technical headache that will bring up demons of revisionism sparking a new war. This is nonesense. Keep it simple: those areas not controlled by Pristina stay in Serbia. As far as Pec/Peja, I would disagree with Kate here since it is under the control of Pristina. I can say that after being there, the town is solidly Albanian. Of course, there are Serb historical and religious sites nearby, and these should be protected.

Partition also makes sense since the Pristina does not really have a working plan for integrating N. Kosovo, just like Belgrade does not have a plan to integrate and develop the areas controlled by Pristina.

kate wrote; If a partition ever did happen, then obviously areas like Pec and Decani have to remain somehow part of Serbia (and yes, I do know the geographical layout), as well as the north of the province.

Kate are you aware, how many serbs live in Peja or Pec.

""So Kate or Princip,and anyone else have you ever been in Kosovo?"
Has George W. Bush been to Kosovo?
(Roger7, 14. August 2007 14:07)"

No, but Ahtisaari has been, the one , if you know, who was given the mandate from UN to propose a solution. George Bush merely is accepting what UN mediator suggested within his mandate.

Of course, he denies that, as all these proposals are coming from Serb press. This only proves what I said earlier that Serb politicians have entered these so much wanted talks totally unprepared, leaving medias to speculate on what BG is negotiating for, confederation, federation, partition, etc… In this repect I would be very interesting to know what have Serbian delegation discussed with “troika”.

We need to be asking ourselves (Team Kosovo) what is really important. Is it Trepca? Is it the monasteries? Is it prestige? Kate's suggestion of somehow including Pec and Decani a part of the Serb side of Kosovo is untenable. The region is overwhelmingly Albanian, and to my knowledge, the Pec region is seen as a sort of "rogue" province against Pristina - one of the most lawless regions of Kosovo (at least it has been in the past). Reincorporating it into Serbia (while idealistically favored) is downright impossible. That is why only two solutions are possible:

1. Draw a 1-2 km radius around each of the monasteries and label it "Serbian" territory. The city of Pec is gone, and is of little use to Belgrade. It's the monastery everyone is worried about. Same with Decani. The churches at Prizren should be, if not already, immediately turned into UNESCO sites, along with the Ali Pasha Mosque too, for good will.

2. Incorporate these areas well outside immediate Serbian control as part of the Serb zone of a federated Kosovo. They can retain their status as pilgrimage sites, with full and unfettered access for Serbs to use. There are no other way to keep these sites without major violence, and even then, all would probably be destroyed in the conflict.

no, my dear boys...there´s no need at all to divide anything.

there won´t be any independence and if there should really start a new armed conflict, what I really do not believe ( since the Albanians are not idiots ) the Albanians would lose.
there is simply no doubt that it would be a terrible situation, but since Albanians can choose the way how the want to live, it will be their own choice if they want to lead a guerilla-war, their children will be quite thankful, I guess.

no, forget those illusions,
it´s only a matter of time, line in other conflicts ( look on the conflict between the French and Germans, they fought for generations, and today they are living in peace together without borders, or look to northern Ireland...what is happening there in the last years... )

as I said it, it´s only a question of time. but, until that day, Albanians will have to accept that it is Serbia, not "kosovaahhh" . it´s that simple.
broad autonomy is probably what you will get, and you will sell it as a victory. but the fanatic independence has lost. definitely.
...because... it´s still the UNSC that decides...

True most of the essential wealth of kosovo is in the north but Serbia most not sell out even an inch of its territory.

I say let the albanians keep saying the same mantra over and over..."albanians will never let serbia rule them again." That may be, but the main goal is to keep Serbian Sovereignty over the land. We ended up defeating the much stronger turks after all, albeit after 5 centuries!!!

Also, things are really sweetening up for Serbia since they will not be sending even a single dinar south of the Ibar now!

Now that is a sweet deal!

If the albanians refuse to re-integrate with belgrade, let them enjoy all of the economic and political fruit that it will bring sucessive generations!! lol.

I never imagined that the albanian populated regions could be anymore poorer than they are now, but it looks like they will achieve their goal!

I must have said it around 20 times in the last 3 days that partition is a joke, it's opening pandora's box, no one listened. In fact some serbian posts were something like "make kosova independent and serbia gets mitrovica [trepça]."

Tsk tsk, the EU nor Russia can play God when it comes to the issue of resolving the conflict between Kosova and serbia. No partition, No negotiatians, pure independence or maybe a comprise for supervised independence.

Kate,
You said that you know the where Pec/Peja and Decani are, but you are taking dream about how those two cities will be conotroled by serbia.

O my god, are you kidding me!? Peja and Decani are totally 100% Albanian, there is no way that this will hapen!
You have no realistic idea what's going on in Kosovo after 99. If you think that K-Albanias are going to say, Yes, sure Serbia can come and claim this territory as hers, then you're are wrong, this will never happen.

I am just hoping that the solution will be found ASAP even if Kosovo has to be divided.

Othere thing is, why Serbia does not accept Northern Mitrovica and Zubin Potok and then maybe we will live on peace somehow. Serbs know that they will not be able to get more than that. Even if they do get more like some serbia enclaves there is no way they can control them totaly., becuase they are going to be locked inside the territory of Kosovo, so whoever has to go in-and-out has to go through Kosovo's check-points or police or someone else.

Kate, do some more research before you talk again about taking Peja and Deqani please.

Jovan,
I like your comment?
"If Albanians want to live, is their own choice,their children will be quite thankful"
Good thinking, Albanians have to think about their children and choose the way to live, and not like in 1999 doring the Conflict in Kosova when Serb Tigers, and Serbian Army Killed many Albanin Kids....
I think this make sance to you....

THERE IS NO UNIFICATION IN THE WORLD. THERE IS ONLY PARTITION IN THE WORLD. Since 1990, 33 new countries became independent and recognized by the partition of federations, confederations, countries:
SOVIET UNION = 1 Armenia 2 Azerbaijan 3 Belarus 4 Estonia 5 Georgia 6 Kazakhstan 7 Kyrgyzstan 8 Latvia 9 Lithuania 10 Moldova 11 Russia 12 Tajikistan 13 Turkmenistan 14 Ukraine 15 Uzbekistan
YUGOSLAVIA = 16 Bosnia and Herzegovina 17 Croatia 18 Macedonia 19 Serbia and Montenegro 20 Slovenia
21 Namibia (South Africa)
22,23,24 Marshall Islands, Micronesia Caroline Islands, Palau (separated from USA)
SEPARATED SLOVAKIA SUGGESTS CYPRUS UNIFICATION:
CZECHOSLOVAKIA = 25 Czech Republic 26 Slovakia
27 Eritrea (Ethiopia)
28 East Timor Timor-Leste (Indonesia)
THE SAME RACE, SAME RELIGION, SAME LANGUAGED PARTITIONED:
SERBIA-MONTENEGRO = 29 Montenegro 30 Serbia
31 Kosovo (Serbia)
32,33 Abhasia, South Ossetia (Georgia)

AND PARTITION OF FEDERATIONS, CONFEDERATIONS, COUNTRIES WILL GO ON....34,35,36,... Transnistria , Palestine, South Sudan, West Sahara, Somaliland, Putland, Greenland, Quebec, Wallonia, Flanders, Catalonia, Basque, Scotland, North Ireland, Padova,...

Definitely, I think that all those played games by Internationals are just one more step to make clear to Serbians that there is no any other option except Independence of Kosova, The Serbia has no any democratic tradition in order to keep more 2 million people under its power. There are only 8 years the Serbia tries to kill, massacre, mistreat and take them out from their father land. This is a general known fact.

Princip by the way: As I have told you repeatedly the best interest of Serbia is something no Albanian loses sleep over. If your Montenegrin brothers do not care to share their fate with you, forget about the Albanians doing so. On the contrary you are viewed as enemies and the worse off you are the better for us. After all one is allowed to be cynical about the fate of his enemies. A weaker Serbia = a weaker enemy.
As for Montgomery's article: It is simply a personal reading of the situation and Montgomery is by no means omniscient. At least he is sincere when he says that his views are influenced by his association to Serbia.
As for the violence: I did not make any predictions on who would win and so forth. The problem is that there would be violence and believe me that most Albanians in the world would do everything they can to support any actions against Serbia in Kosovo, regardless of the fact that you migt call it terrorism or extremisms. It is not so to us. We see it as legitimate resistance. On that account Montgomery was right at least. And even though Serbi might be much stronger militarily it would take forever to stop an insurgency or guerrila war. Ask your Russian budies about that and they will tell you about Chechnya.

Kate

Good luck in trying to keep Peja/Pec under serbian rule!!
Your comments really make me laugh sometimes. while you claim to know the geography of kosovo (probably googled the map), you obviously do not know the ethnic make up or the mentality of albanian in Peja/pec region. You have more chance of making Athens part of Serbia than keeping Peja part of Serbia.

Comments like yours and some other people in these posts, are as a result of the fact that you have never been in Kosovo / or spent any considerable time there especially with albanians.

I've said before, while everybody is entitled to their opinion its important to state if they have ever been in Kosovo.

So Kate or Princip,and anyone else have you ever been in Kosovo?

Dear Kate,I wouldn't mind for any peaceful solution and if partition would be the best and accepted from both sides,then why not.
The area you have mentioned,Peja/Pec and Decani it is 99% polpulated with Albanians,so would be very difficult that they would join Serbia.Areas North of Iber/Ibar maybe would stay with Serbia.So partition it will be a very difficult task which can open the door to more problems and we don't want that.
I am more for confederation within Kosova/o like Mike is suggesting all a long,so Serbs of Kosova would be protected and one day if they are not happy to live together, then they can always ask for divorce like we are asking now.

Kate, I am sorry but Deqani and Peja are nowehre near serbian border. Get hold of the map and look thoroughly and come back and say that you sorry what nonsence that you wrote.I almost fell from my chair in my offcie when i read your coment.

Russia up to now has offered no solution except blocking every solution proposed. I can’t wait to see them come up with the solution for Kosova issue.
Resolution 1244 has served its mandate, the time has come for Kosova to move. It is really shame that Russia blocked the resolution, under the Ahtisari package, which gave Serbian minority in Kosova all the rights for self-government in the majority Serb municipalities. In fact Serb in Kosova feel hard done by it. They fell as they are being gambled with from the failed Serbian politicians that want all or nothing, in case of win they get another mandate in soft seat of Belgrade, if nothing, nothing, they lose nothing, it is the Americans and EU to blame. They have tried they even gamble with K-Serbs life’s like many of you suggest. I still believe that people that think this way are in minority proven by B92 site.

Kosova status settlement is prolonged in expense of K-Albanians and K-Serbs. B92 is offering people, like some in here, that don’t even know where Kosova is to place their arguments and to make them feel important. Kosova issue will be solved once the people in Kosova stop listening to people that have no clue about Kosova-Balkans and ask what better suit them without any pressure. Some in here rely in articles written by any journalist that support their ideas of some kind of Balkan Zoo ignoring the fact that there are peoples life’s that we are talking about, also ignoring what most of the diplomats propose.

I suggest to many of you same as nikshala ,come to Kosova and live with Albanians and Serbs for some time, leave your PC and comfortable life’s for a while, come and see for yourselves that we want the same things as you in UK, US, EU, after that feel free to suggest something.
One thing is for sure as we are talking of the talks outcome, remaining 110 days will bring nothing new and that Kosova will never be Serbia again fact known to all of you

Kate: No one is asking to annex anything. If the people of Kosovo ask to be independent that is not annexation but seccession. That's the one element that you constantly underestimate in your comments. Kosovo has a long history and it is very important to both Serbs and Albanians I know that. The simple fact though is that Kosovo is overwhelmingly Albanian (90%), they had autonomy and Serbia decided to revoke it and opress them under Milosevic and then decided to simply ignore any K-Albanian requests for more rights or autonomy. That's what brought about the conflict of 1998-99. Before the war it would have still been possible to achieve a compromise of the sort Belgrade is proposing now, but things have moved too far ahead for that. Just visit Kosovo once and you would understand. How could you believe that a state that tried to expell all the -K-Albanians in a campaign of ethnic cleansing is serious about respecting your rights? The Serbs have not so much as offered an apology for the 10,000 K-Albanian deaths or for the 1 million that were expelled. (And don't tell me they left because of NATO airraids because I have yet to find one single K-Albanian who left in fear of being bombed.) We are simply not prepared to run the risk.
And Kosovo is part of Serbia only on paper. It has been a UN protectorate since 1999. Serbia simply lost any claim it had to Kosovo as far as the population of Kosovo is concerned.

Kate: I just read your comments on the 11 Serb tourists sentenced in Greece where you urge caution since none of us were there. Strange how you seem to throw caution in the wind when the Serb media reports when any house burns or a Serb suffers so much as a scratch in Kosovo. In those cases you seem to be pretty sure it was an Albanian perpetrator even though you can't possibly have been there. Wouldn't you say that this suggests a certain bias on your part? Just wondering.

Obiliq: It must make your government really proud to hae such determined people and with such faith in their army. It reminds me of Milosevic time propaganda. But you are forgetting a few little details. If there is a new war - and I sincerely wish there won't be - Serbia will not be able to apply the same tactics as it did last time round. No expulsion and massacres I would guess. And I am really curious to know how your army would deal with what must be a really serious and completely new tactical challenge for them: having to fight actual fighters and not to simply kill and expel civilians. And you are sadly mistaken if you think that the KLA is the same inexperienced army that took on the VJ in 1998. There has been enough time for preparations in these 9 years. I do not doubt that Serbia has a much stronger and better equiped army, but you wouldn't be fighting a conventional war and you shouldn't underestimate the determination and motivation of people who are fightning against a state that as far as they are concerned is an invader.
And given the sorry state of Serbia's economy - the soldiers that fought in Kosovo haven't been paid yet -I do not know how Serbia would be able to wage war at all.
So let's just hope it doesn't come to a fight because whoever wins it in the end, it would last long enough to ruin the whole region. There is a saying by a Croatian author who says that when the Serbs conquered Kosovo in 1912-13 they fulfilled a 500 year old dream but the K-Albanians started dreaming a new dream all of their own.
And Kate I guess that being from Britain and all it must be impossible for you to understand the position of those fighting a liberation war whereas it must come natural to support states supressing such wars. Britain used to be very good at it after all.
And as for the borders: what makes changing the borders tabu? Who decided that the K-Albanians are destined to live under Serbia because the borders must not be changed? The same was said of the borders of Yugoslavia and change they did.

Seems like this is an example of tenuous news reports by the media (some would say that these have been politically motivated to test the water on a particular idea).

A journalist asked whether partition was an option and the response was that nothing was off the table. That was all.

It obviously has been an option all along. This is still the annexation of territory, but I can't see any other realistic alternative.

If a partition ever did happen, then obviously areas like Pec and Decani have to remain somehow part of Serbia (and yes, I do know the geographical layout), as well as the north of the province.

And any discussions about adding on other areas along ethnic lines (such as put forward by Predictor) should not even come into play. That is the danger of setting a precedent, even under partition - that it is still creating an ethnically based boundary. Ironic when one of the main aims of the 1999 campaign by Nato was to 'create a multi-ethnic Kosovo' [George Robertson, remember?].

I don't think that Serbia should have to give up any land at all, but I haven't heard any other realistic option for how to run things on the ground as they are. Am I missing something?

Although everyone is denying it now it seems to me that Ischinger was serious when he said that they would accept partition. The Troika was probably testing the waters to see how the issue would be received. Publicly both the Serb and Kosovo governments have distanced themselves from the idea but who knows what they really discussed with the Troika on this possibility?
When you think of it partition is actually the only viable compromise. Serbia says it wants all of Kosovo to stay part of Serbia and Kosovo wants all of Kosovo to become independent. Hence the only compromise would be that each party gets part of its wish. It is the way they go about it that seems to be the problem. Neither Serbia nor Kosovo can publicly agree to partition. So in the end Kosovo will probably declare independence unilateraly and the northern bit will seccede from Kosovo thus creating facts on the ground. Eventually both sides will come to agree to the de facto division and that will be the ed of it. This seems to be the most likely scenario. The only unknown is how Presevo Albanians would take it.
Princip on the troubles in Kosovo if it doesn't get independence: anything less than independence would be considered as defeat and humiliation by the K-Albanians. Now you can argue all you want about the rights and wrongs of it, but most Albanians see the independence of Kosovo as the rectification of an historical injustice that was done to them when the Great Powers decided to allow Serbia to keep Kosovo. If the actual Great Powers decide once again to stop Kosovo from being independent - which I do not think they will - the K-Albanians would by no means accept that. And don't forget, when the KLA started its fight they didn't even dream that the war would end as quickly as it did. They were prepared for a long fight. If Kosovo is denied independence it would simply mean that the KLA would continue its fight. Kosovo War Part II as it were. And that is the trouble I was talking about.

Partition supposed to be offered in 1999 and not now!
I am not against it but I think it is a bit late for that now.
I don't believe that the Serbian Government will suggest something like that, nor Kosovan Albanians as would be considered as a defeat for both sides.
I like the idea of two independent countries both integrated in Europe and I wouldn't mind confederation within Kosova/o so the Kosovan Serbs would feel safer.
After investing billions in Kosova/o the West should be more clearer about future status of Kosova/o,they should stop promising something they can't deliver!
Kosova/o is only being used as a pawn by US and Russia,I don't think that they care about people of Kosova/o.

Teni, the "kla" would get destroyed in the matter of days if it were to attack UN troops or Serbs. What world do you live in? There will be no partition of Serbian soil!! End of story!!

Euro Albanian, you say Serbia is not democratic, but you think albanians are??? Come on, get serious!! Im amazed at some of the posts on here, most are factless, baseless, abd just plain sramota! Lets get real!!

Of course, he denies that, as all these proposals are coming from Serb press. This only proves what I said earlier that Serb politicians have entered these so much wanted talks totally unprepared, leaving medias to speculate on what BG is negotiating for, confederation, federation, partition, etc… In this repect I would be very interesting to know what have Serbian delegation discussed with “troika”.

Teni - I can honestly say that there is no bias at all when it comes to individuals. I would condemn any senseless violence and feel sorry for the person at the end of it, regardless of who they were.

I admit bias when it comes to the debate about Serbia not being forced to relinquish Kosovo, but as I have said numerous times my bias is as a European who doesn't want new boundaries to be drawn in this way. ie. Based on avoiding veiled threats of violence; handed as some sort of reward by an outside party to their particular friend of the day; or drawn along mono-ethnic lines.

Ahmet - I have absolutely no need to apologise. In my initial comment I said that I was aware of the geography and I wasn't talking necessarily of Pec or Decani being included in any partition. Just making the point that these are areas of particular significance to Serbs.

So sorry I nearly made you fall out of your chair, but you really should keep all legs on the ground at all times. If you join the EU Health & Safety will become all important.

"So Kate or Princip,and anyone else have you ever been in Kosovo?"
Has George W. Bush been to Kosovo?

(Roger7, 14. August 2007 14:07)

No - but hundreds of his advisers have been and they have seen it for themselves the situation on the ground.

Do you ever wonder why 95% of the people who have been and visited Kosovo, say that the only possible solution is independence?

If people like Princip and Jovan or Kate were in Kosovo, they would not be suggesting 'win-win' withing Serbia, or autonomy or .... because they would know that it is impossible.

Even they usually sceptic italians, recently said that the idea of returing Kosovo within Serbias rule is 'unthinkable'!

kate wrote; If a partition ever did happen, then obviously areas like Pec and Decani have to remain somehow part of Serbia (and yes, I do know the geographical layout), as well as the north of the province.

Kate are you aware, how many serbs live in Peja or Pec.

The chances of getting Kosovo back to Serbia are actually smaller than the chances of recreating Yugoslavia, I think.
And Kate if Scotland were to become independent would you give them Manchester?

""So Kate or Princip,and anyone else have you ever been in Kosovo?"
Has George W. Bush been to Kosovo?
(Roger7, 14. August 2007 14:07)"

No, but Ahtisaari has been, the one , if you know, who was given the mandate from UN to propose a solution. George Bush merely is accepting what UN mediator suggested within his mandate.

Both Pristina and Belgrade expressed outrage over the idea of partition--this was expected since both will initially insist on not making concessions to the other side. It was also expected that the Great Powers distanced themselves from the idea of partition since they do not want to be seen again as imposing a solution. Nevertheless, what Ischinger rightfully did was put a very good and previously barred option on the table. The West should not be afraid or apologetic of putting good ideas on the table.

It would be good to find a "compromise" as soon as possible but until such a solution is found 1244 should be fully implemented and UNMIK has a continued responsibility for it's mission to return all displaced people.

Princip - I agree completely about fulfilling Res. 1244.

Teni: "Serbia says it wants all of Kosovo to stay part of Serbia and Kosovo wants all of Kosovo to become independent. Hence the only compromise would be that each party gets part of its wish."

This is what I have a problem with; the way that both of these elements are presented by you and others on an equal basis. You said it yourself, Kosovo is part of Serbia already.

Any partition or 'compromise' is not on the equal terms of the people who want to annex the territory, but a concession by the sovereign state to keep peace and move forward.

The international community now clearly sees this. Especially the EU cannot afford to give in to threats of unrest or violence.

"I like the idea of two independent countries both integrated in Europe and I wouldn't mind confederation within Kosova/o so the Kosovan Serbs would feel safer"

Now there's an idea, if I read that correctly. Rather than a full scale partiton of Kosova, where the north stays with Serbia and the majority of Kosova Serbs therefore get nothing and Kosova loses mineral wealth; and rather than the bizarre idea, in the post-Yugoslav federation reality, of a confederation between Kosova and Serbia; how about a fully independent but confederal Kosova (or Kosovo/a whatever) consisting of two confederated states, a erb and an Albanian one - similar tot he plan proposed by the UN for Cyprus.

Partition is the key to reaching a solution but not the full answer. The Ahtissari plan with all of its provisions to provide rights and guarantees to the minorities would have been an acceptable had it also allowed N. Kosovo to remain in Serbia. The provisions addressing minorities must be a part of the solution since a majority of Serbs (and their cultural and religious sites) still live in areas controlled by Pristina. These sites need to be protected, especially after partition.

The question on where to draw the border is sometimes seen as a technical headache that will bring up demons of revisionism sparking a new war. This is nonesense. Keep it simple: those areas not controlled by Pristina stay in Serbia. As far as Pec/Peja, I would disagree with Kate here since it is under the control of Pristina. I can say that after being there, the town is solidly Albanian. Of course, there are Serb historical and religious sites nearby, and these should be protected.

Partition also makes sense since the Pristina does not really have a working plan for integrating N. Kosovo, just like Belgrade does not have a plan to integrate and develop the areas controlled by Pristina.

I still do not understand what is all the fuss about. Kosovo is from Serbia as the Eiffel Tower is from France. The problem started when someone at the UN appointed Martti Ahtisaari for evaluation of the situation of the Serb province and he came out with a very weird solution which no one, in his right mind, would accept.

Kosovo has been an important part of Serbian history, something that Ahtisaari did not even care for. Why should he, if he is a Fin.

José Luis Belmar
Stockholm, Sweden

Kate,
You said that you know the where Pec/Peja and Decani are, but you are taking dream about how those two cities will be conotroled by serbia.

O my god, are you kidding me!? Peja and Decani are totally 100% Albanian, there is no way that this will hapen!
You have no realistic idea what's going on in Kosovo after 99. If you think that K-Albanias are going to say, Yes, sure Serbia can come and claim this territory as hers, then you're are wrong, this will never happen.

I am just hoping that the solution will be found ASAP even if Kosovo has to be divided.

Othere thing is, why Serbia does not accept Northern Mitrovica and Zubin Potok and then maybe we will live on peace somehow. Serbs know that they will not be able to get more than that. Even if they do get more like some serbia enclaves there is no way they can control them totaly., becuase they are going to be locked inside the territory of Kosovo, so whoever has to go in-and-out has to go through Kosovo's check-points or police or someone else.

Kate, do some more research before you talk again about taking Peja and Deqani please.

Jovan,
I like your comment?
"If Albanians want to live, is their own choice,their children will be quite thankful"
Good thinking, Albanians have to think about their children and choose the way to live, and not like in 1999 doring the Conflict in Kosova when Serb Tigers, and Serbian Army Killed many Albanin Kids....
I think this make sance to you....

"So Kate or Princip,and anyone else have you ever been in Kosovo?"
Has George W. Bush been to Kosovo?

We need to be asking ourselves (Team Kosovo) what is really important. Is it Trepca? Is it the monasteries? Is it prestige? Kate's suggestion of somehow including Pec and Decani a part of the Serb side of Kosovo is untenable. The region is overwhelmingly Albanian, and to my knowledge, the Pec region is seen as a sort of "rogue" province against Pristina - one of the most lawless regions of Kosovo (at least it has been in the past). Reincorporating it into Serbia (while idealistically favored) is downright impossible. That is why only two solutions are possible:

1. Draw a 1-2 km radius around each of the monasteries and label it "Serbian" territory. The city of Pec is gone, and is of little use to Belgrade. It's the monastery everyone is worried about. Same with Decani. The churches at Prizren should be, if not already, immediately turned into UNESCO sites, along with the Ali Pasha Mosque too, for good will.

2. Incorporate these areas well outside immediate Serbian control as part of the Serb zone of a federated Kosovo. They can retain their status as pilgrimage sites, with full and unfettered access for Serbs to use. There are no other way to keep these sites without major violence, and even then, all would probably be destroyed in the conflict.

Teni, keep dreaming that same dream, as a Serb im not worried. Dreams of a illegally formed country taken from Serbia unjustly isnt going to happen. You talk about the kla like its a greatest assembly of "soldiers" ever. Sure they were trained by the U.S. but if albanians draw first blood, well then its GAME OVER. It wont be only the Serbs, but UN troops as well. Your kla is still a bunch of farmers dressed in camo.

Nikshala, I've been to Kosovo. I was there in 1997. My family thought I was crazy, but I wanted to visit the Serbian monasteries and historical sites before any violence broke out.

Honestly, I think partition is the only solution. We can sit around the campfire and sing "Kum-bye-ya" and talk about living harmoniously in a multi-ethnic society, but let's get real. Partition and migration is the only solution. All it takes is a little imagination. Serbs could take northern Kosovo and could even trade Presevo for it. The monastery of Pec, could become an independent state like the Vatican, guarded by Greek soldiers. And as Teni suggested, other Serbian Churches can be handed over to UNESCO. Kosovo Albanians get independence, Serbs get some token land they can call Kosovo, they get rid of Presevo (who wants it?), the Serbian Vatican becomes independent, and historical sites are guaranteed protection. Everyone's happy!

Mike, good question, "what is really important"? It is important not to create another artificial (non viable) puppet state in the Balkans like Bosnia/Macedonia. Demographics is not a reason to break up sovereign states and reward rebellious minorities. Full autonomy supervised by the UN/EU is the only long lasting viable solution! Once (if ever) Germany/US withdraws their support for independence as the best solution K-Albanians will have no choice but to agree. It is these two countries that are holding up the final solution.

No, but Ahtisaari has been, the one , if you know, who was given the mandate from UN to propose a solution. George Bush merely is accepting what UN mediator suggested within his mandate.
(miri, 14. August 2007 17:41)

Ahtisaari?Who the hell is that? His plan died long time ago...

I must have said it around 20 times in the last 3 days that partition is a joke, it's opening pandora's box, no one listened. In fact some serbian posts were something like "make kosova independent and serbia gets mitrovica [trepça]."

Tsk tsk, the EU nor Russia can play God when it comes to the issue of resolving the conflict between Kosova and serbia. No partition, No negotiatians, pure independence or maybe a comprise for supervised independence.

no, my dear boys...there´s no need at all to divide anything.

there won´t be any independence and if there should really start a new armed conflict, what I really do not believe ( since the Albanians are not idiots ) the Albanians would lose.
there is simply no doubt that it would be a terrible situation, but since Albanians can choose the way how the want to live, it will be their own choice if they want to lead a guerilla-war, their children will be quite thankful, I guess.

no, forget those illusions,
it´s only a matter of time, line in other conflicts ( look on the conflict between the French and Germans, they fought for generations, and today they are living in peace together without borders, or look to northern Ireland...what is happening there in the last years... )

as I said it, it´s only a question of time. but, until that day, Albanians will have to accept that it is Serbia, not "kosovaahhh" . it´s that simple.
broad autonomy is probably what you will get, and you will sell it as a victory. but the fanatic independence has lost. definitely.
...because... it´s still the UNSC that decides...

True most of the essential wealth of kosovo is in the north but Serbia most not sell out even an inch of its territory.

I say let the albanians keep saying the same mantra over and over..."albanians will never let serbia rule them again." That may be, but the main goal is to keep Serbian Sovereignty over the land. We ended up defeating the much stronger turks after all, albeit after 5 centuries!!!

Also, things are really sweetening up for Serbia since they will not be sending even a single dinar south of the Ibar now!

Now that is a sweet deal!

If the albanians refuse to re-integrate with belgrade, let them enjoy all of the economic and political fruit that it will bring sucessive generations!! lol.

I never imagined that the albanian populated regions could be anymore poorer than they are now, but it looks like they will achieve their goal!

THERE IS NO UNIFICATION IN THE WORLD. THERE IS ONLY PARTITION IN THE WORLD. Since 1990, 33 new countries became independent and recognized by the partition of federations, confederations, countries:
SOVIET UNION = 1 Armenia 2 Azerbaijan 3 Belarus 4 Estonia 5 Georgia 6 Kazakhstan 7 Kyrgyzstan 8 Latvia 9 Lithuania 10 Moldova 11 Russia 12 Tajikistan 13 Turkmenistan 14 Ukraine 15 Uzbekistan
YUGOSLAVIA = 16 Bosnia and Herzegovina 17 Croatia 18 Macedonia 19 Serbia and Montenegro 20 Slovenia
21 Namibia (South Africa)
22,23,24 Marshall Islands, Micronesia Caroline Islands, Palau (separated from USA)
SEPARATED SLOVAKIA SUGGESTS CYPRUS UNIFICATION:
CZECHOSLOVAKIA = 25 Czech Republic 26 Slovakia
27 Eritrea (Ethiopia)
28 East Timor Timor-Leste (Indonesia)
THE SAME RACE, SAME RELIGION, SAME LANGUAGED PARTITIONED:
SERBIA-MONTENEGRO = 29 Montenegro 30 Serbia
31 Kosovo (Serbia)
32,33 Abhasia, South Ossetia (Georgia)

AND PARTITION OF FEDERATIONS, CONFEDERATIONS, COUNTRIES WILL GO ON....34,35,36,... Transnistria , Palestine, South Sudan, West Sahara, Somaliland, Putland, Greenland, Quebec, Wallonia, Flanders, Catalonia, Basque, Scotland, North Ireland, Padova,...