Cvele,
Reading your comments one realise that your bottomline is: "Serbs or Albanians - We have to get rid of them".
Just for my curiosity - what causes you to adopt such a hateful stance towards Albanians?
Does Mr. Kojen believes what he is saying. I really doubt it. For what he pretends gives a hard blow to Serbia's aspirations to be part of European family of free and democratic nations. Mr. Kojen is indicating the opposite - therefore Serbia is not willing to be a free and democratic, due to the cause of Kosova. This can plainly be translated - Serbia will be a free and democratic nation only when the Kosova will gain the indipendence.
Just an observation:
With all due respect to all participants to that debates on this forum, I must say I'm a little dissapointed by the fact that most of people contributing with ideas (I salute this, I say it again) seem to be mostly persons living out of Kosovo, out of Serbia and even out of Europe... Perhaps this is just a coincidence, I hope I'm not wrong generalizing in this way. However, although opinions expressed on Kosovo issue by Canadians, Americans, Italians, Britons, etc. are surely interesting and valuable (after all, Western countries for decades are those paying the bill for conflicts here...) I would like to see more comments expressed by (European) people directly affected by any of the Kosovo potential evolutions in the near future...
Now, I don't pretend I'm an expert in Kosovo, but I am working here for almost three years, and also I am Romanian (for those not very familiar with Balkan history, my people had always strong and friendly relations with both Serbs and Albanians, at official and grassroots level too) and journalist specialized in international news. So, trying to be as objective as possible (as Tactus said, sine ira et studio) I must say that the area seems to me as going straight toward a 'frozen conflict', somehow like Cyprus... As long as open violence is not erupting on any side of Ibar river, the situation will remain as today: de facto, Northern part of Kosovo is already partitioned, the only thing keeping it together with the rest of Kosovo is the presence&presure of international community (including here the KFOR) and the financial incentives received by K/Serbs living up there, through various institutions (EU, UN/UNHCR, IOM, World Bank etc.) including here the money infused by Pristina Albanian dominated Govt. So, legally but also practically speaking, if Albanians will declare independence in Pristina, then the presence of internationals all over Kosovo becomes without fundament, and no local authorities will cooperate further (Serbs for sure in North, since their separation will not be recognized, maybe even Albanians will cease it, if the recognition of the self-declared indep. will not go as they hope also...) So, except KFOR (because the guys have big guns) everybody else will be left without power. In such case, one should expect accomplishment of the facto partition, since nobody sane will imagine KFOR or UNMIK police will try to impose by force the Pristina-rule in north of Ibar... By consequence, we will have a border on Ibar, with KFOR acting as separator between communities. And in that moment, Albanians and Serbs will have to show if they can leave together in those area where they are mixt (e.g. Caber/Cabra Albanian village in North, or Gracanica enclave Serb- dominated in South... If both sides will start to remove by force the other minority part from their areas, then we will have a bi-direction exodus and finally mono-ethnic South and North areas of Kosovo. If this nightmare scenario will not happen, then the frozen conflict/separation will have a chance to be negociated from new positions, and maybe new solutions will come up, ones not related to political passions and wishful thinking, but to reality in the field. What worries me is that K/Albanian leaders as Fatmir Limaj (ex-KLA commander, now deputy president of PDK) are saying these days that "independence of Kosovo is not the optimal solution, but a compromise that Albanians are making"... Together with threats of possible separation of Srpska Republic from BiH, this kind of statements shows that both sides are playing with fire and nurturing hopes which have nothing to do with the wish and welfare of the people these politicians are supposed to represent...
Best to everybody, and let's hope things will not deteriorate and nobody will suffer.
Bob Petrovich Ahmet Isufi also wrote and I quote “DuringWW2 a lot of peole through out Europe, USA, and other continents colaborated with Nazis i cludinga number of Albanians and serbs. So what else is new” Ahmet excuses collaboration that led to the slaughter of Jews and Serbs on the basis that others did it as well. Mr. Petrovich I am sure this is not intentional. It seems to me more of an English language issue rather than intent at blasphemous libel which is also a crime in Canada.
You may be aware that publishing of Nazi revisionism and The Holocaust denial claims are felonies in the most of EU and B92 is accessible from those juristictions. For example, Ernst Zundel is incarcerated in Germany although his Nazi revisionist website was in U.S. Rationale was that it was accessible from Germany.
The following statement of Adrian Gashi published on B92 site is an act of Holocaust revisionism:
"Are you guys also sorry for making Belgrade Jewish Free city in the WWII
(Adrian Gashi, 10. August 2007 17:01)
I have responded yesterday to another Albanian reader ("Adriano") who used the very same Nazi revisionist claim. Perhaps this is the same person, I do not know, you can tell by the IP address.
It is known historical fact that destruction of Jews in occupied Europe was in the hands of German Nazi apparatus. Serbia was under direct Wehrmacht military control. Making Belgrade Judenrein was German Nazi deed and Serbs had nothing with it. Accusing Serbs for The Holocaust is a ploy to exonerate the real perpetrators, German Nazis. I can understand why Albanians do that, but have no sympathy to this. Similar Nazi revisionist ploy accuses Poland for Auschwitz because it was on Polish territory.
Serbs did not join Waffen SS. Albanians did and had their own Waffen SS Division Skanderbeg.
Having in mind that Albanians eagerly joined Waffen SS Division Skenderbeg and hunted down the Jews, such revisionist claims are neither naive nor misinformed.
Kosovo Albanian Nazi revisionists accuse Nazi victims for the Holocaust, and pretend that they saved the Jews. In reality, it was Italians who saved the Jews in Albania, while Kosovo Albanians hunted down Jews in their midst.
Please consider advising Albanian Nazi revisionists who post on your site to cease and desist,otherwise you may face the legal consequences for the publishing of Nazi revisionist propaganda on your site.
This is one of the reasons why I like jewish people. They should be proud on Mr. Kojen. Far different than eutocrats, they (he) are wery honest. I'am sorry that we Serbs so desperatelly try to make a friends out of eurabians instead of Jews. And if we just have had more people like Kojen in our history...
Shalom Israel
"The bottom line is that Pristina demands nothing short of independence and Belgrade refuses that, so the new troika will end up where Ahtisaari did: stalemate between the parties and the need for the UN Security Council to cast the deciding vote. Given the Kosovo people's overwhelming desire to be free from the state that tried to eliminate them and the lack of any realistic alternative from Belgrade, the international community has little choice but to give Kosovo its independence."
You guys can comment all day of for the next 100 years, but that will not change the determination of albanians to gain what it was theirs.
Kosovo its goint to become independent wheather you like it or not. No country can stop that.
You doing it again friend, a silly statement, that article you mention is referring to trade with all of Europe and not the SMUG 27 member EU club, which is what I am referring to, its only 15% with those 27 nations. Who is feeling silly now?
Canadian, 10. August 2007 01:52)
If you read the link you would realise that it was not an 'article' as you call it, but an official statement from the Serbian government. If you have a problem with the statement take it up with the Serbian statistics office.
If you have some alternative statistics then provide them.
In the meantime who are we supposed to believe you or the official statistics?
I find your hatred of the EU childish and this probably explains your need to try to minimise its role with regard to Serbia.
Along with EU "package" that is always pushed in unison is membership of the unstable and internally self bickering military alliance NATO - where the reward is sending your best troops to possible death to support the US wars of self interest!
Well they are not the only military alliance and Serbia needs to keep it's options open - how about strengthening cooepration with SCO? That would send a very strong signal that this if the folly of attempts at dismembering and partitioning the Soverign Sebian state will only be "futile & counterproductive".
The US need to come clean about it's failure of delivery on a promise it never could deliver!
Well , i must admit that i don`t know what people think in central serbia , but our neighbours in Voivodina want to join the EU , with or without Kosovo.
I am tired of the US psychological war against the Serbs. Posting these phony polls saying that Serbs choose the EU over Kosovo. I say hold a referendum and see how a large MAJORITY of Serbs want to keep Kosovo. But the US would try to stop that. This website displays posts from albanians who pose as Serbs.
For the past years after milosevic was arrested(and he finaly died), many people believed Serbia would forget the past and move forward. Instead you serbs killed your own primeminister Djindjic. Now you have a government that depends on kosovo to maintain in office or not. Still the same rethoric comments made by every single politician in serbia that kosova comes first and then europe etc etc. Let me remind you that you serbs need europe, europe doesnt need you. You also talk about territorial integrity etc etc. You own your own country and KOSOVA isnt pat of it since 1999, and i am sure it will never be again. Why wont you move forward to build up something for your own people living in serbia instead of continuing with the tough talks. You always forget the history when it is on your own disfavore. How do you think one nation is so stupid to tell the killer welcome back. WAKE UP SERBIA SHAME ON YOUR POLITICIANS
Fatos
You are right.
Serbia would be so much better of if the sanctions were never imposed. In a lot of ways. However... Kosovo is still Serbia. Understand that.
CCCC
'The greatest foreign trade was recorded in commerce with the EU, which accounted for more than half of total trade.'
Who's feeling silly now?
(bganon, 9. August 2007 20:47)
You doing it again friend, a silly statement, that article you mention is referring to trade with all of Europe and not the SMUG 27 member EU club, which is what I am referring to, its only 15% with those 27 nations. Who is feeling silly now?
Another view of ex...
I think it is very important for Serbia to join EU.
There are countries like Norway and Switzerland who can afford of not being an EU member.They are not fighting poverty like Serbia.
EU is a better future for Serbia.Why not have another referendum and see what people of Serbia want.
When it comes to Kosova/o I think we should do the same,ask them what they want.
Albanians of Kosova/o wanted the independence since 1913.They fought since and are still fighting.It is a long process and it is a dream of many generations that one day they would have a country.I want to give a credit to Albanians from Kosova/o for not giving up the hope that one day they will run the show!
My grandad finished the school in Serbian language,same as my dad.In 70' the University of Prishtina was open so the Kosovan Albanians could finish the studies in their country,rather then going to Belgrade,Zagreb or Sarajevo.
While the Turks almost succeeded of changing our religion,the serbs almost succeeded of changing our names, our future.
So almost 100 years on the Albanians of Kosova/o are still alive.They have a right to decide about their future.For the first time in many decades,Kosovan Albanians are considered equal in Kosova/o and thats is a progress.
Now is the biggest task for us,we have to show to the world that we mean business and we have to talk business.We have to plan that Kosova/o without other non-albanians won't be complete.
With the EU and USA as friends, who needs enemy.
Stay as far as possible from US and there poppets
.How can Serbs forget so fast what was done to them by USA and Europe.
they should stop paying Kojen maybe that will put some objectivity into his thoughts. I wonder what he will advise Serbia to do when the rest of the Balkans join the EU. Isolation has worked perfectly so far. Someone said that Serbs have survived the embargo and thus not joining the EU is a hic up. Wow, have you got any idea where Serbia would be today if it wasnt for backward thinkers? If you want to keep living in the middle ages you go right ahead, at least people around the world can come and see how unique your country is.
if you are really convinced, that the EU doesn´t need to close the gap between its southern member Greece and the other memberstates you are either blind or ignorant.
george:
there will not be any independence, don´t you see what is happening in the last weeks? Princip has put it right, now it´s a question of how the EU decides...whether they want to fill that gap or whether they want back down before the US...
A vast majority of Serbia agrees that Kosovo is lost as a territory that Serbia has sovereignity.
By becoming INDEPENDENT, does not mean that the Serbian cultural and religious monuments will not be at their disposal to visit.
The only thing, there is a NEW SHERIFF in TOWN!!!
By the way, G. Bush's rating is 35%, but dont forget that he still is the President of USA and the most powerful man on EARTH.
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries. (bganon, 9. August 2007 17:40)
WRONG BUDDY!... 65% of Serbia's trade is with - China, Japan, other parts of Asia, Africa, South Africa, South America and Russia! Check your facts before making silly statements.
(Canadian, 9. August 2007 18:36)
Thanks for that Canadian but I'm afraid you dont know what you are talking about. Over half of Serbian trade is made with EU countries:
'The greatest foreign trade was recorded in commerce with the EU, which accounted for more than half of total trade.'
Srboslav: "No more genereous conditions to Albanians in Serbia that were not born there or their parents were living there in the 1940:s. Just like the Croats did after their independence."
Good criteria. Kosova should do the same. No Serbs in Kosova that were not born there or whose parents were not living there in the 1940. That should eliminate about 70% of the K-Serbs that are colonists anyway.
I would like to point out that the recent poll that said 70% of Serbs would like to join the EU did not take into account the Kosovo linkage.
The earlier poll from a couple of weeks ago dealt with this issue. Nearly 50% of Serb would NOT trade Kosovo for EU membership. So there you go, what Kojen is saying represents nearly 50% of the Serbian population.
Predictor
Nice guess but ultimately wrong.
Im from Zemun, Belgrade, Vojvodina, SERBIA. To set the facts streight.
As for Kosovo I am telling u on behalf of EVERY Serb I know. Because I dont know a single Serb that would say... take Kosovo we dont need the people, churches, resources that are ours (resolution 1244) and I dont care about ur myths of illirians bringing and buryin those minerals there during times of dinasours. What I am concerned with are current laws. They all say that Kosovo is Serbia.
PS to put ur argument to rest; I have no one friend or family from Kosovo, I still love all my K-Serbs as brothers and sisters and absolutely nothing less. Neither I nor any Serb I know will contest to that. As well as I do not agree with the way our government has treated them. But I am no politician and I will not question 'such' decisions made by elected officials that I voted for. They have convinced me they are doing everything they can to keep Kosovo while avoiding a minefield of traps and huge differences in their parties views.
70% would 'like' to enter EU but not if it meant giving up sovereignty.
100% of Serbs refuse to see Kosovo as anything other then Serbia proper.
Please tell me: where have you bought your computer??? It calculates in a second!!! I presume you represent a 100% of them right?
BUT, I must disappoint you Cvele, as apart of some BG politicians, who use Kosova as an excuse for not being in a position to resolve much important problems that Serbia has, no one else in Serbia doesn’t want Serbia to hang on Kosova issue. I completely understand you as a K/Serb, because they don’t like you in Serbia neither, so you have nowhere to go. But, just because of that fact, you, a K-Serb minority should cooperate in creating a new independent Kosova, as it is the only place you can live without being offended, but in contrary, positively discriminated.
Kate, Princip, and alban poster
If Switzerland does not need to be in the EU, neither does Serbia. We will do just fine without them. The upcoming plans for pipelines leading through Serbia will ensure our 'security' from ZE Germans.
While the EU countries and our mutual trade is a double edged sword. It has nothing to do with entering or not entering EU. We have shown ourselves to be resilient and resourseful time and time again.
If we survived for 12 years under sanctions this is a hic-up.
None of these countries will cut their trade of with us because they like money a lot. We will gladly cut it off with them and search for other buyers and sellers that are not trying to take appart our sovereignty and constitution.
Lazar said > He is surely, not speaking for the Serbian population.
70% of Serbs (SMART ONES).
I have news for you, Bush does not speak for 75% of the American people since his approval rating is only 25% but yet he still supports the Albanians and Blair when he was in office did not speak for 65% of his people either, these are your two greatest supporters. The Serbian government would be wise to choose Kosovo over the EU. You must look at the Serbian history even as far back as 700 years and you will see that they have never surrendered land without a fight, they have never been a puppet to a larger more powerful nation, not to the Ottoman's, not to the Nazi and now not to the Americans, the same cannot be said for many of the other peoples in the Balkans. I have to respect the resolve of the Serbian people even when they are faced with incredible odds against them!
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries. (bganon, 9. August 2007 17:40)
WRONG BUDDY!... 65% of Serbia's trade is with - China, Japan, other parts of Asia, Africa, South Africa, South America and Russia! Check your facts before making silly statements. By the way 15% trade with America, 5% with the rest of the world and ONLY 15% with the SMUG EU member club! Why should Serbia join a club that insist that before joining you need to cut off your arm, its ludicrous!
It is in Serbia's interest to adopt the high standards of the EU- especially in the economic sphere.There will be no European recognition of Kosovo independence without a UNSC Resolution so the fate of Kosovo lies in the hands of the Russian and Chinese vetos.The Europeans are legalists at heart and understand that Serbia's deed to Kosovo (obtained in 1912 before Yugoslavia even existed )under present day international structures cannot be legally revoked regardless of what ethinc groups of people live there.People come and go but the land is forever and the Europeans are awakening to the fact that Serbs will never give up their legal sovereign rights to their land.We may be in for a frozen conflict ala Taiwan or Cyprus for the next 100 years with the northern part of Kosovo de facto and de jure under Serb control and the rest under de facto Albanian control.It is the height of idiocy to think that 6 million Albanians are more inportant to Europe than 12 million Serbs and 150 million Russians.Many people here overestimate the importance of Kosovo to the US and will be disappointed when they realize that unilateral US action in the international arena is over and done with on issues as insignificant to US security as Kosovo is.Does any American or European want Russian nuclear missiles in Belgrade?Does any want Russia arming the Taleban in Afghanistan and the insurgents in Iraq?Does anybody want Russia helping Iran produce nuclear bombs and long range missiles?No European will support armed aggression by the KLA to exert control over northern Kosovo and every objective military observer I have spoken with in Europe laughs at the idea that the NATO or the Serbian Army is not capable of defeating any atempt by the KLA to exert control over northern Kosovo.It is time that the Serbs all migrate to the north immediately where they will be safe once the Albanian Islamists realize that independence is off the table.Shalom
Kojen is dead on!!! First off, I don't give a hoot about that EU poll. Polls are used as political propaganda tools, it all depends on where the questions are asked and how the question is asked, then it can be manipulated any way the pollsters want. Why would Serbia join a club that does not recognize it's sovereignty? Is that not a bit like suicide? Now the ball is in the EU court where it should be, Serbia joining the EU is now largely based on whether the EU believes Serbia is a sovereign country with inviolable borders (like every other country in the EU & outside) or if they believe that Serbia is just a colony of the EU that can be dismantled at their pleasure.
As has been said by many, including the Serbian government, the choice between joining the EU or keeping Kosovo is a false choice. One does not preclude the other despite the attempts of those like Hoolbrooke to link the two.
I can barely believe that Serbian politicians are linking the two issues now.
I'd say to the US based posters who dont understand the role of the EU to Serbia to think about what they are saying.
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries not with the US or Russia. Staying outside the EU will cause more damage to the Serbian economy at a time when it is growing. Serbia needs to place its goods on the EU market.
To my mind its just as well Kojen is no longer a government negotiator. And its no wonder that neither Kostunica nor Tadic will let that Simic attend the Kosovo negotiation team.
This guy is really funny.He makes it seem as if the EU is begging Serbia to be a member. So if the EU supports Kosovo's independence and Serbia loses Kosovo, Serbia will lose the EU too. Well I guess you always have Russia.
Nonsense. If you have in Serbia a referendum with only two questions: 1.Kosovo, without EU membership. and 2. EU membership, without Kosovo, I am pretty sure that 70% of Serbia citizens will mark the second solution. On the 30% you can find old generations, villagers, K-Serbs and the last, police officers who can not perform their duty in accordance with human rights standards for law enforcement agencies.
The Slovenes, who will shortly take up presidency of the EU, let the cat out of the bag last week when they denied the story that Serbia's entry into the EU is pre-conditional, i.e. that they agree to give up Kosovo-Methojia which incidentally would open the way for the future dismemberment of Serbia (Presevo, Sandzak, Vojvodina). If this is true then it makes a complete mockery of the whole process and Serbia should tell Brussels, thanks but no thanks. Mr Kojen (who is Jewish, boo! to those who believe that Serbia oppresses its minorities) is bang on. As Cvele and Princip rightly pointed out, the EU has 2 choices, a friendly pro western state or a potentially hostile pro Russian one slap bang in the middle of Central Europe. No country should be held hostage in this way. This would suggest another fudge and half arsed approach by Brussels on this very delecate and important issue.
I think its a little harsh to imply that all who are against EU are idiots, just look at Iceland, Norway and Switzerland. They all do fine without EU.
But I agree with you that EU in its CURRENT form would be good for Serbia. Lots of aid and infrastructure help. For us other EU cuntries that pay the bill its another thing..
But I do belive that when the time have come to let in the other balkan countries in EU all this will stop or EU will be bankrupt very quick. No more the easy way in ala Bulgaria and Romania!
Serbia should work for a partition of Kosovo in my opinion, take 30% och the northern parts and then build an exact copy of the Israeli wall around the rest.
No more genereous conditions to Albanians in Serbia that were not born there or their parents were living there in the 1940:s. Just like the Croats did after their independence. All refugees that Tito and later presidents gave right to live in SErbia after WW2 should not automaticly have right to citizenship in Serbia. There are over 100 000 albanians in Belgrade now. Let them move to Albania or Kosovo since they are going to unite if allowed independence.
Just covering their behind. It would almost go the same way, meaning the talks would be suspended by the EU if Serbia does not agree to Kosovo's independence so they preemptively assume the position that could happen to them anyway and say it's our idea.
If you ask me, it makes EU's job a bit easier. But this mentality won't last as the people of Serbia will react eventually.
Dear Mr. Kojen, you can choose what ever you want but Kosova, as Kosova is lost once and forever. As I said yesterday, there is no way back for any price; there is no presperity of the balkans without Kosovas status definition! So you can actually choose between prosperity and instability! But Kosova will never again be under serb jurisdiction.
Serbia is increasing the stakes to the EU - do you want an inclusive western Balkans policy as you state or not? The choice is with the EU to make and there are many in the EU who have said they will not be impressed with any attempts at dismembering the soverign and democratic european state of Serbia.
Is this person for real?
He is surely, not speaking for the Serbian population.
70% of Serbs (SMART ONES) want to go into EU.
To suggest that Serbia should not go in EU is IDIOTIC.
What is the best for all is Serbia in EU (FORGET RUSSIA),
Kosovo to be INDEPENDENT.
For a great historical progress, Serbia should move ahead and cooperate with the western countries and she will be fine.
**PEACE**
100% dead on.
No EU if Kosovo goes. If they support dismemberment of Serbia they will get a very unfriendly and pro-Russia country in the balkans. As for albanians we all know they wont get into EU for the next 100 years.
Forget the Euro-union for a while. Serbia ought to take care of it's own interests first. I have family in Germany and they said they did not care much about the euro-union anyway.It only benefits the multinationals that take advantage of the nations for their own benefit. And after their done with them they move on. This is all part of a N.W.O. {New World Order} in which the middle class is becoming the biggest losers. Globalization will take the middle-class to poverty. You'll have the rich and poor left and no middle class. Serbia can make it on their own by partnering up with nations that truly want to do business with them and not with nations that use business to control them. For what ever it's worth! Good Day!
Just wondering who is this guys and what is his relation with the former Solobo that brought Serbia in this stage? Well said just go forward with it, EU will agree with your in the same way as in '90. I guess soon Serbia will make an embargo to EU :)
100% dead on.
No EU if Kosovo goes. If they support dismemberment of Serbia they will get a very unfriendly and pro-Russia country in the balkans. As for albanians we all know they wont get into EU for the next 100 years.
Is this person for real?
He is surely, not speaking for the Serbian population.
70% of Serbs (SMART ONES) want to go into EU.
To suggest that Serbia should not go in EU is IDIOTIC.
What is the best for all is Serbia in EU (FORGET RUSSIA),
Kosovo to be INDEPENDENT.
For a great historical progress, Serbia should move ahead and cooperate with the western countries and she will be fine.
**PEACE**
It is in Serbia's interest to adopt the high standards of the EU- especially in the economic sphere.There will be no European recognition of Kosovo independence without a UNSC Resolution so the fate of Kosovo lies in the hands of the Russian and Chinese vetos.The Europeans are legalists at heart and understand that Serbia's deed to Kosovo (obtained in 1912 before Yugoslavia even existed )under present day international structures cannot be legally revoked regardless of what ethinc groups of people live there.People come and go but the land is forever and the Europeans are awakening to the fact that Serbs will never give up their legal sovereign rights to their land.We may be in for a frozen conflict ala Taiwan or Cyprus for the next 100 years with the northern part of Kosovo de facto and de jure under Serb control and the rest under de facto Albanian control.It is the height of idiocy to think that 6 million Albanians are more inportant to Europe than 12 million Serbs and 150 million Russians.Many people here overestimate the importance of Kosovo to the US and will be disappointed when they realize that unilateral US action in the international arena is over and done with on issues as insignificant to US security as Kosovo is.Does any American or European want Russian nuclear missiles in Belgrade?Does any want Russia arming the Taleban in Afghanistan and the insurgents in Iraq?Does anybody want Russia helping Iran produce nuclear bombs and long range missiles?No European will support armed aggression by the KLA to exert control over northern Kosovo and every objective military observer I have spoken with in Europe laughs at the idea that the NATO or the Serbian Army is not capable of defeating any atempt by the KLA to exert control over northern Kosovo.It is time that the Serbs all migrate to the north immediately where they will be safe once the Albanian Islamists realize that independence is off the table.Shalom
The Slovenes, who will shortly take up presidency of the EU, let the cat out of the bag last week when they denied the story that Serbia's entry into the EU is pre-conditional, i.e. that they agree to give up Kosovo-Methojia which incidentally would open the way for the future dismemberment of Serbia (Presevo, Sandzak, Vojvodina). If this is true then it makes a complete mockery of the whole process and Serbia should tell Brussels, thanks but no thanks. Mr Kojen (who is Jewish, boo! to those who believe that Serbia oppresses its minorities) is bang on. As Cvele and Princip rightly pointed out, the EU has 2 choices, a friendly pro western state or a potentially hostile pro Russian one slap bang in the middle of Central Europe. No country should be held hostage in this way. This would suggest another fudge and half arsed approach by Brussels on this very delecate and important issue.
Kojen is dead on!!! First off, I don't give a hoot about that EU poll. Polls are used as political propaganda tools, it all depends on where the questions are asked and how the question is asked, then it can be manipulated any way the pollsters want. Why would Serbia join a club that does not recognize it's sovereignty? Is that not a bit like suicide? Now the ball is in the EU court where it should be, Serbia joining the EU is now largely based on whether the EU believes Serbia is a sovereign country with inviolable borders (like every other country in the EU & outside) or if they believe that Serbia is just a colony of the EU that can be dismantled at their pleasure.
Lazar said > He is surely, not speaking for the Serbian population.
70% of Serbs (SMART ONES).
I have news for you, Bush does not speak for 75% of the American people since his approval rating is only 25% but yet he still supports the Albanians and Blair when he was in office did not speak for 65% of his people either, these are your two greatest supporters. The Serbian government would be wise to choose Kosovo over the EU. You must look at the Serbian history even as far back as 700 years and you will see that they have never surrendered land without a fight, they have never been a puppet to a larger more powerful nation, not to the Ottoman's, not to the Nazi and now not to the Americans, the same cannot be said for many of the other peoples in the Balkans. I have to respect the resolve of the Serbian people even when they are faced with incredible odds against them!
Forget the Euro-union for a while. Serbia ought to take care of it's own interests first. I have family in Germany and they said they did not care much about the euro-union anyway.It only benefits the multinationals that take advantage of the nations for their own benefit. And after their done with them they move on. This is all part of a N.W.O. {New World Order} in which the middle class is becoming the biggest losers. Globalization will take the middle-class to poverty. You'll have the rich and poor left and no middle class. Serbia can make it on their own by partnering up with nations that truly want to do business with them and not with nations that use business to control them. For what ever it's worth! Good Day!
Serbia is increasing the stakes to the EU - do you want an inclusive western Balkans policy as you state or not? The choice is with the EU to make and there are many in the EU who have said they will not be impressed with any attempts at dismembering the soverign and democratic european state of Serbia.
I think its a little harsh to imply that all who are against EU are idiots, just look at Iceland, Norway and Switzerland. They all do fine without EU.
But I agree with you that EU in its CURRENT form would be good for Serbia. Lots of aid and infrastructure help. For us other EU cuntries that pay the bill its another thing..
But I do belive that when the time have come to let in the other balkan countries in EU all this will stop or EU will be bankrupt very quick. No more the easy way in ala Bulgaria and Romania!
Serbia should work for a partition of Kosovo in my opinion, take 30% och the northern parts and then build an exact copy of the Israeli wall around the rest.
No more genereous conditions to Albanians in Serbia that were not born there or their parents were living there in the 1940:s. Just like the Croats did after their independence. All refugees that Tito and later presidents gave right to live in SErbia after WW2 should not automaticly have right to citizenship in Serbia. There are over 100 000 albanians in Belgrade now. Let them move to Albania or Kosovo since they are going to unite if allowed independence.
Predictor
Nice guess but ultimately wrong.
Im from Zemun, Belgrade, Vojvodina, SERBIA. To set the facts streight.
As for Kosovo I am telling u on behalf of EVERY Serb I know. Because I dont know a single Serb that would say... take Kosovo we dont need the people, churches, resources that are ours (resolution 1244) and I dont care about ur myths of illirians bringing and buryin those minerals there during times of dinasours. What I am concerned with are current laws. They all say that Kosovo is Serbia.
PS to put ur argument to rest; I have no one friend or family from Kosovo, I still love all my K-Serbs as brothers and sisters and absolutely nothing less. Neither I nor any Serb I know will contest to that. As well as I do not agree with the way our government has treated them. But I am no politician and I will not question 'such' decisions made by elected officials that I voted for. They have convinced me they are doing everything they can to keep Kosovo while avoiding a minefield of traps and huge differences in their parties views.
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries. (bganon, 9. August 2007 17:40)
WRONG BUDDY!... 65% of Serbia's trade is with - China, Japan, other parts of Asia, Africa, South Africa, South America and Russia! Check your facts before making silly statements. By the way 15% trade with America, 5% with the rest of the world and ONLY 15% with the SMUG EU member club! Why should Serbia join a club that insist that before joining you need to cut off your arm, its ludicrous!
Kate, Princip, and alban poster
If Switzerland does not need to be in the EU, neither does Serbia. We will do just fine without them. The upcoming plans for pipelines leading through Serbia will ensure our 'security' from ZE Germans.
While the EU countries and our mutual trade is a double edged sword. It has nothing to do with entering or not entering EU. We have shown ourselves to be resilient and resourseful time and time again.
If we survived for 12 years under sanctions this is a hic-up.
None of these countries will cut their trade of with us because they like money a lot. We will gladly cut it off with them and search for other buyers and sellers that are not trying to take appart our sovereignty and constitution.
Just wondering who is this guys and what is his relation with the former Solobo that brought Serbia in this stage? Well said just go forward with it, EU will agree with your in the same way as in '90. I guess soon Serbia will make an embargo to EU :)
Dear Mr. Kojen, you can choose what ever you want but Kosova, as Kosova is lost once and forever. As I said yesterday, there is no way back for any price; there is no presperity of the balkans without Kosovas status definition! So you can actually choose between prosperity and instability! But Kosova will never again be under serb jurisdiction.
You may be aware that publishing of Nazi revisionism and The Holocaust denial claims are felonies in the most of EU and B92 is accessible from those juristictions. For example, Ernst Zundel is incarcerated in Germany although his Nazi revisionist website was in U.S. Rationale was that it was accessible from Germany.
The following statement of Adrian Gashi published on B92 site is an act of Holocaust revisionism:
"Are you guys also sorry for making Belgrade Jewish Free city in the WWII
(Adrian Gashi, 10. August 2007 17:01)
I have responded yesterday to another Albanian reader ("Adriano") who used the very same Nazi revisionist claim. Perhaps this is the same person, I do not know, you can tell by the IP address.
It is known historical fact that destruction of Jews in occupied Europe was in the hands of German Nazi apparatus. Serbia was under direct Wehrmacht military control. Making Belgrade Judenrein was German Nazi deed and Serbs had nothing with it. Accusing Serbs for The Holocaust is a ploy to exonerate the real perpetrators, German Nazis. I can understand why Albanians do that, but have no sympathy to this. Similar Nazi revisionist ploy accuses Poland for Auschwitz because it was on Polish territory.
Serbs did not join Waffen SS. Albanians did and had their own Waffen SS Division Skanderbeg.
Having in mind that Albanians eagerly joined Waffen SS Division Skenderbeg and hunted down the Jews, such revisionist claims are neither naive nor misinformed.
Kosovo Albanian Nazi revisionists accuse Nazi victims for the Holocaust, and pretend that they saved the Jews. In reality, it was Italians who saved the Jews in Albania, while Kosovo Albanians hunted down Jews in their midst.
Please consider advising Albanian Nazi revisionists who post on your site to cease and desist,otherwise you may face the legal consequences for the publishing of Nazi revisionist propaganda on your site.
70% would 'like' to enter EU but not if it meant giving up sovereignty.
100% of Serbs refuse to see Kosovo as anything other then Serbia proper.
Please tell me: where have you bought your computer??? It calculates in a second!!! I presume you represent a 100% of them right?
BUT, I must disappoint you Cvele, as apart of some BG politicians, who use Kosova as an excuse for not being in a position to resolve much important problems that Serbia has, no one else in Serbia doesn’t want Serbia to hang on Kosova issue. I completely understand you as a K/Serb, because they don’t like you in Serbia neither, so you have nowhere to go. But, just because of that fact, you, a K-Serb minority should cooperate in creating a new independent Kosova, as it is the only place you can live without being offended, but in contrary, positively discriminated.
Srboslav: "No more genereous conditions to Albanians in Serbia that were not born there or their parents were living there in the 1940:s. Just like the Croats did after their independence."
Good criteria. Kosova should do the same. No Serbs in Kosova that were not born there or whose parents were not living there in the 1940. That should eliminate about 70% of the K-Serbs that are colonists anyway.
they should stop paying Kojen maybe that will put some objectivity into his thoughts. I wonder what he will advise Serbia to do when the rest of the Balkans join the EU. Isolation has worked perfectly so far. Someone said that Serbs have survived the embargo and thus not joining the EU is a hic up. Wow, have you got any idea where Serbia would be today if it wasnt for backward thinkers? If you want to keep living in the middle ages you go right ahead, at least people around the world can come and see how unique your country is.
Nonsense. If you have in Serbia a referendum with only two questions: 1.Kosovo, without EU membership. and 2. EU membership, without Kosovo, I am pretty sure that 70% of Serbia citizens will mark the second solution. On the 30% you can find old generations, villagers, K-Serbs and the last, police officers who can not perform their duty in accordance with human rights standards for law enforcement agencies.
if you are really convinced, that the EU doesn´t need to close the gap between its southern member Greece and the other memberstates you are either blind or ignorant.
george:
there will not be any independence, don´t you see what is happening in the last weeks? Princip has put it right, now it´s a question of how the EU decides...whether they want to fill that gap or whether they want back down before the US...
This is one of the reasons why I like jewish people. They should be proud on Mr. Kojen. Far different than eutocrats, they (he) are wery honest. I'am sorry that we Serbs so desperatelly try to make a friends out of eurabians instead of Jews. And if we just have had more people like Kojen in our history...
Shalom Israel
This guy is really funny.He makes it seem as if the EU is begging Serbia to be a member. So if the EU supports Kosovo's independence and Serbia loses Kosovo, Serbia will lose the EU too. Well I guess you always have Russia.
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries. (bganon, 9. August 2007 17:40)
WRONG BUDDY!... 65% of Serbia's trade is with - China, Japan, other parts of Asia, Africa, South Africa, South America and Russia! Check your facts before making silly statements.
(Canadian, 9. August 2007 18:36)
Thanks for that Canadian but I'm afraid you dont know what you are talking about. Over half of Serbian trade is made with EU countries:
'The greatest foreign trade was recorded in commerce with the EU, which accounted for more than half of total trade.'
'The greatest foreign trade was recorded in commerce with the EU, which accounted for more than half of total trade.'
Who's feeling silly now?
(bganon, 9. August 2007 20:47)
You doing it again friend, a silly statement, that article you mention is referring to trade with all of Europe and not the SMUG 27 member EU club, which is what I am referring to, its only 15% with those 27 nations. Who is feeling silly now?
With the EU and USA as friends, who needs enemy.
Stay as far as possible from US and there poppets
.How can Serbs forget so fast what was done to them by USA and Europe.
Fatos
You are right.
Serbia would be so much better of if the sanctions were never imposed. In a lot of ways. However... Kosovo is still Serbia. Understand that.
CCCC
Along with EU "package" that is always pushed in unison is membership of the unstable and internally self bickering military alliance NATO - where the reward is sending your best troops to possible death to support the US wars of self interest!
Well they are not the only military alliance and Serbia needs to keep it's options open - how about strengthening cooepration with SCO? That would send a very strong signal that this if the folly of attempts at dismembering and partitioning the Soverign Sebian state will only be "futile & counterproductive".
The US need to come clean about it's failure of delivery on a promise it never could deliver!
I am tired of the US psychological war against the Serbs. Posting these phony polls saying that Serbs choose the EU over Kosovo. I say hold a referendum and see how a large MAJORITY of Serbs want to keep Kosovo. But the US would try to stop that. This website displays posts from albanians who pose as Serbs.
Just covering their behind. It would almost go the same way, meaning the talks would be suspended by the EU if Serbia does not agree to Kosovo's independence so they preemptively assume the position that could happen to them anyway and say it's our idea.
If you ask me, it makes EU's job a bit easier. But this mentality won't last as the people of Serbia will react eventually.
As has been said by many, including the Serbian government, the choice between joining the EU or keeping Kosovo is a false choice. One does not preclude the other despite the attempts of those like Hoolbrooke to link the two.
I can barely believe that Serbian politicians are linking the two issues now.
I'd say to the US based posters who dont understand the role of the EU to Serbia to think about what they are saying.
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries not with the US or Russia. Staying outside the EU will cause more damage to the Serbian economy at a time when it is growing. Serbia needs to place its goods on the EU market.
To my mind its just as well Kojen is no longer a government negotiator. And its no wonder that neither Kostunica nor Tadic will let that Simic attend the Kosovo negotiation team.
I would like to point out that the recent poll that said 70% of Serbs would like to join the EU did not take into account the Kosovo linkage.
The earlier poll from a couple of weeks ago dealt with this issue. Nearly 50% of Serb would NOT trade Kosovo for EU membership. So there you go, what Kojen is saying represents nearly 50% of the Serbian population.
Another view of ex...
I think it is very important for Serbia to join EU.
There are countries like Norway and Switzerland who can afford of not being an EU member.They are not fighting poverty like Serbia.
EU is a better future for Serbia.Why not have another referendum and see what people of Serbia want.
When it comes to Kosova/o I think we should do the same,ask them what they want.
Albanians of Kosova/o wanted the independence since 1913.They fought since and are still fighting.It is a long process and it is a dream of many generations that one day they would have a country.I want to give a credit to Albanians from Kosova/o for not giving up the hope that one day they will run the show!
My grandad finished the school in Serbian language,same as my dad.In 70' the University of Prishtina was open so the Kosovan Albanians could finish the studies in their country,rather then going to Belgrade,Zagreb or Sarajevo.
While the Turks almost succeeded of changing our religion,the serbs almost succeeded of changing our names, our future.
So almost 100 years on the Albanians of Kosova/o are still alive.They have a right to decide about their future.For the first time in many decades,Kosovan Albanians are considered equal in Kosova/o and thats is a progress.
Now is the biggest task for us,we have to show to the world that we mean business and we have to talk business.We have to plan that Kosova/o without other non-albanians won't be complete.
A vast majority of Serbia agrees that Kosovo is lost as a territory that Serbia has sovereignity.
By becoming INDEPENDENT, does not mean that the Serbian cultural and religious monuments will not be at their disposal to visit.
The only thing, there is a NEW SHERIFF in TOWN!!!
By the way, G. Bush's rating is 35%, but dont forget that he still is the President of USA and the most powerful man on EARTH.
For the past years after milosevic was arrested(and he finaly died), many people believed Serbia would forget the past and move forward. Instead you serbs killed your own primeminister Djindjic. Now you have a government that depends on kosovo to maintain in office or not. Still the same rethoric comments made by every single politician in serbia that kosova comes first and then europe etc etc. Let me remind you that you serbs need europe, europe doesnt need you. You also talk about territorial integrity etc etc. You own your own country and KOSOVA isnt pat of it since 1999, and i am sure it will never be again. Why wont you move forward to build up something for your own people living in serbia instead of continuing with the tough talks. You always forget the history when it is on your own disfavore. How do you think one nation is so stupid to tell the killer welcome back. WAKE UP SERBIA SHAME ON YOUR POLITICIANS
You doing it again friend, a silly statement, that article you mention is referring to trade with all of Europe and not the SMUG 27 member EU club, which is what I am referring to, its only 15% with those 27 nations. Who is feeling silly now?
Canadian, 10. August 2007 01:52)
If you read the link you would realise that it was not an 'article' as you call it, but an official statement from the Serbian government. If you have a problem with the statement take it up with the Serbian statistics office.
If you have some alternative statistics then provide them.
In the meantime who are we supposed to believe you or the official statistics?
I find your hatred of the EU childish and this probably explains your need to try to minimise its role with regard to Serbia.
"The bottom line is that Pristina demands nothing short of independence and Belgrade refuses that, so the new troika will end up where Ahtisaari did: stalemate between the parties and the need for the UN Security Council to cast the deciding vote. Given the Kosovo people's overwhelming desire to be free from the state that tried to eliminate them and the lack of any realistic alternative from Belgrade, the international community has little choice but to give Kosovo its independence."
You guys can comment all day of for the next 100 years, but that will not change the determination of albanians to gain what it was theirs.
Kosovo its goint to become independent wheather you like it or not. No country can stop that.
Well , i must admit that i don`t know what people think in central serbia , but our neighbours in Voivodina want to join the EU , with or without Kosovo.
Bob Petrovich Ahmet Isufi also wrote and I quote “DuringWW2 a lot of peole through out Europe, USA, and other continents colaborated with Nazis i cludinga number of Albanians and serbs. So what else is new” Ahmet excuses collaboration that led to the slaughter of Jews and Serbs on the basis that others did it as well. Mr. Petrovich I am sure this is not intentional. It seems to me more of an English language issue rather than intent at blasphemous libel which is also a crime in Canada.
Just an observation:
With all due respect to all participants to that debates on this forum, I must say I'm a little dissapointed by the fact that most of people contributing with ideas (I salute this, I say it again) seem to be mostly persons living out of Kosovo, out of Serbia and even out of Europe... Perhaps this is just a coincidence, I hope I'm not wrong generalizing in this way. However, although opinions expressed on Kosovo issue by Canadians, Americans, Italians, Britons, etc. are surely interesting and valuable (after all, Western countries for decades are those paying the bill for conflicts here...) I would like to see more comments expressed by (European) people directly affected by any of the Kosovo potential evolutions in the near future...
Now, I don't pretend I'm an expert in Kosovo, but I am working here for almost three years, and also I am Romanian (for those not very familiar with Balkan history, my people had always strong and friendly relations with both Serbs and Albanians, at official and grassroots level too) and journalist specialized in international news. So, trying to be as objective as possible (as Tactus said, sine ira et studio) I must say that the area seems to me as going straight toward a 'frozen conflict', somehow like Cyprus... As long as open violence is not erupting on any side of Ibar river, the situation will remain as today: de facto, Northern part of Kosovo is already partitioned, the only thing keeping it together with the rest of Kosovo is the presence&presure of international community (including here the KFOR) and the financial incentives received by K/Serbs living up there, through various institutions (EU, UN/UNHCR, IOM, World Bank etc.) including here the money infused by Pristina Albanian dominated Govt. So, legally but also practically speaking, if Albanians will declare independence in Pristina, then the presence of internationals all over Kosovo becomes without fundament, and no local authorities will cooperate further (Serbs for sure in North, since their separation will not be recognized, maybe even Albanians will cease it, if the recognition of the self-declared indep. will not go as they hope also...) So, except KFOR (because the guys have big guns) everybody else will be left without power. In such case, one should expect accomplishment of the facto partition, since nobody sane will imagine KFOR or UNMIK police will try to impose by force the Pristina-rule in north of Ibar... By consequence, we will have a border on Ibar, with KFOR acting as separator between communities. And in that moment, Albanians and Serbs will have to show if they can leave together in those area where they are mixt (e.g. Caber/Cabra Albanian village in North, or Gracanica enclave Serb- dominated in South... If both sides will start to remove by force the other minority part from their areas, then we will have a bi-direction exodus and finally mono-ethnic South and North areas of Kosovo. If this nightmare scenario will not happen, then the frozen conflict/separation will have a chance to be negociated from new positions, and maybe new solutions will come up, ones not related to political passions and wishful thinking, but to reality in the field. What worries me is that K/Albanian leaders as Fatmir Limaj (ex-KLA commander, now deputy president of PDK) are saying these days that "independence of Kosovo is not the optimal solution, but a compromise that Albanians are making"... Together with threats of possible separation of Srpska Republic from BiH, this kind of statements shows that both sides are playing with fire and nurturing hopes which have nothing to do with the wish and welfare of the people these politicians are supposed to represent...
Best to everybody, and let's hope things will not deteriorate and nobody will suffer.
Does Mr. Kojen believes what he is saying. I really doubt it. For what he pretends gives a hard blow to Serbia's aspirations to be part of European family of free and democratic nations. Mr. Kojen is indicating the opposite - therefore Serbia is not willing to be a free and democratic, due to the cause of Kosova. This can plainly be translated - Serbia will be a free and democratic nation only when the Kosova will gain the indipendence.
Cvele,
Reading your comments one realise that your bottomline is: "Serbs or Albanians - We have to get rid of them".
Just for my curiosity - what causes you to adopt such a hateful stance towards Albanians?
Is this person for real?
He is surely, not speaking for the Serbian population.
70% of Serbs (SMART ONES) want to go into EU.
To suggest that Serbia should not go in EU is IDIOTIC.
What is the best for all is Serbia in EU (FORGET RUSSIA),
Kosovo to be INDEPENDENT.
For a great historical progress, Serbia should move ahead and cooperate with the western countries and she will be fine.
**PEACE**
100% dead on.
No EU if Kosovo goes. If they support dismemberment of Serbia they will get a very unfriendly and pro-Russia country in the balkans. As for albanians we all know they wont get into EU for the next 100 years.
Dear Mr. Kojen, you can choose what ever you want but Kosova, as Kosova is lost once and forever. As I said yesterday, there is no way back for any price; there is no presperity of the balkans without Kosovas status definition! So you can actually choose between prosperity and instability! But Kosova will never again be under serb jurisdiction.
It is in Serbia's interest to adopt the high standards of the EU- especially in the economic sphere.There will be no European recognition of Kosovo independence without a UNSC Resolution so the fate of Kosovo lies in the hands of the Russian and Chinese vetos.The Europeans are legalists at heart and understand that Serbia's deed to Kosovo (obtained in 1912 before Yugoslavia even existed )under present day international structures cannot be legally revoked regardless of what ethinc groups of people live there.People come and go but the land is forever and the Europeans are awakening to the fact that Serbs will never give up their legal sovereign rights to their land.We may be in for a frozen conflict ala Taiwan or Cyprus for the next 100 years with the northern part of Kosovo de facto and de jure under Serb control and the rest under de facto Albanian control.It is the height of idiocy to think that 6 million Albanians are more inportant to Europe than 12 million Serbs and 150 million Russians.Many people here overestimate the importance of Kosovo to the US and will be disappointed when they realize that unilateral US action in the international arena is over and done with on issues as insignificant to US security as Kosovo is.Does any American or European want Russian nuclear missiles in Belgrade?Does any want Russia arming the Taleban in Afghanistan and the insurgents in Iraq?Does anybody want Russia helping Iran produce nuclear bombs and long range missiles?No European will support armed aggression by the KLA to exert control over northern Kosovo and every objective military observer I have spoken with in Europe laughs at the idea that the NATO or the Serbian Army is not capable of defeating any atempt by the KLA to exert control over northern Kosovo.It is time that the Serbs all migrate to the north immediately where they will be safe once the Albanian Islamists realize that independence is off the table.Shalom
Just wondering who is this guys and what is his relation with the former Solobo that brought Serbia in this stage? Well said just go forward with it, EU will agree with your in the same way as in '90. I guess soon Serbia will make an embargo to EU :)
This guy is really funny.He makes it seem as if the EU is begging Serbia to be a member. So if the EU supports Kosovo's independence and Serbia loses Kosovo, Serbia will lose the EU too. Well I guess you always have Russia.
Srboslav: "No more genereous conditions to Albanians in Serbia that were not born there or their parents were living there in the 1940:s. Just like the Croats did after their independence."
Good criteria. Kosova should do the same. No Serbs in Kosova that were not born there or whose parents were not living there in the 1940. That should eliminate about 70% of the K-Serbs that are colonists anyway.
Serbia is increasing the stakes to the EU - do you want an inclusive western Balkans policy as you state or not? The choice is with the EU to make and there are many in the EU who have said they will not be impressed with any attempts at dismembering the soverign and democratic european state of Serbia.
I think its a little harsh to imply that all who are against EU are idiots, just look at Iceland, Norway and Switzerland. They all do fine without EU.
But I agree with you that EU in its CURRENT form would be good for Serbia. Lots of aid and infrastructure help. For us other EU cuntries that pay the bill its another thing..
But I do belive that when the time have come to let in the other balkan countries in EU all this will stop or EU will be bankrupt very quick. No more the easy way in ala Bulgaria and Romania!
Serbia should work for a partition of Kosovo in my opinion, take 30% och the northern parts and then build an exact copy of the Israeli wall around the rest.
No more genereous conditions to Albanians in Serbia that were not born there or their parents were living there in the 1940:s. Just like the Croats did after their independence. All refugees that Tito and later presidents gave right to live in SErbia after WW2 should not automaticly have right to citizenship in Serbia. There are over 100 000 albanians in Belgrade now. Let them move to Albania or Kosovo since they are going to unite if allowed independence.
Nonsense. If you have in Serbia a referendum with only two questions: 1.Kosovo, without EU membership. and 2. EU membership, without Kosovo, I am pretty sure that 70% of Serbia citizens will mark the second solution. On the 30% you can find old generations, villagers, K-Serbs and the last, police officers who can not perform their duty in accordance with human rights standards for law enforcement agencies.
Kojen is dead on!!! First off, I don't give a hoot about that EU poll. Polls are used as political propaganda tools, it all depends on where the questions are asked and how the question is asked, then it can be manipulated any way the pollsters want. Why would Serbia join a club that does not recognize it's sovereignty? Is that not a bit like suicide? Now the ball is in the EU court where it should be, Serbia joining the EU is now largely based on whether the EU believes Serbia is a sovereign country with inviolable borders (like every other country in the EU & outside) or if they believe that Serbia is just a colony of the EU that can be dismantled at their pleasure.
70% would 'like' to enter EU but not if it meant giving up sovereignty.
100% of Serbs refuse to see Kosovo as anything other then Serbia proper.
Please tell me: where have you bought your computer??? It calculates in a second!!! I presume you represent a 100% of them right?
BUT, I must disappoint you Cvele, as apart of some BG politicians, who use Kosova as an excuse for not being in a position to resolve much important problems that Serbia has, no one else in Serbia doesn’t want Serbia to hang on Kosova issue. I completely understand you as a K/Serb, because they don’t like you in Serbia neither, so you have nowhere to go. But, just because of that fact, you, a K-Serb minority should cooperate in creating a new independent Kosova, as it is the only place you can live without being offended, but in contrary, positively discriminated.
A vast majority of Serbia agrees that Kosovo is lost as a territory that Serbia has sovereignity.
By becoming INDEPENDENT, does not mean that the Serbian cultural and religious monuments will not be at their disposal to visit.
The only thing, there is a NEW SHERIFF in TOWN!!!
By the way, G. Bush's rating is 35%, but dont forget that he still is the President of USA and the most powerful man on EARTH.
Forget the Euro-union for a while. Serbia ought to take care of it's own interests first. I have family in Germany and they said they did not care much about the euro-union anyway.It only benefits the multinationals that take advantage of the nations for their own benefit. And after their done with them they move on. This is all part of a N.W.O. {New World Order} in which the middle class is becoming the biggest losers. Globalization will take the middle-class to poverty. You'll have the rich and poor left and no middle class. Serbia can make it on their own by partnering up with nations that truly want to do business with them and not with nations that use business to control them. For what ever it's worth! Good Day!
The Slovenes, who will shortly take up presidency of the EU, let the cat out of the bag last week when they denied the story that Serbia's entry into the EU is pre-conditional, i.e. that they agree to give up Kosovo-Methojia which incidentally would open the way for the future dismemberment of Serbia (Presevo, Sandzak, Vojvodina). If this is true then it makes a complete mockery of the whole process and Serbia should tell Brussels, thanks but no thanks. Mr Kojen (who is Jewish, boo! to those who believe that Serbia oppresses its minorities) is bang on. As Cvele and Princip rightly pointed out, the EU has 2 choices, a friendly pro western state or a potentially hostile pro Russian one slap bang in the middle of Central Europe. No country should be held hostage in this way. This would suggest another fudge and half arsed approach by Brussels on this very delecate and important issue.
As has been said by many, including the Serbian government, the choice between joining the EU or keeping Kosovo is a false choice. One does not preclude the other despite the attempts of those like Hoolbrooke to link the two.
I can barely believe that Serbian politicians are linking the two issues now.
I'd say to the US based posters who dont understand the role of the EU to Serbia to think about what they are saying.
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries not with the US or Russia. Staying outside the EU will cause more damage to the Serbian economy at a time when it is growing. Serbia needs to place its goods on the EU market.
To my mind its just as well Kojen is no longer a government negotiator. And its no wonder that neither Kostunica nor Tadic will let that Simic attend the Kosovo negotiation team.
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries. (bganon, 9. August 2007 17:40)
WRONG BUDDY!... 65% of Serbia's trade is with - China, Japan, other parts of Asia, Africa, South Africa, South America and Russia! Check your facts before making silly statements. By the way 15% trade with America, 5% with the rest of the world and ONLY 15% with the SMUG EU member club! Why should Serbia join a club that insist that before joining you need to cut off your arm, its ludicrous!
The majority of Serbian trade is with EU countries. (bganon, 9. August 2007 17:40)
WRONG BUDDY!... 65% of Serbia's trade is with - China, Japan, other parts of Asia, Africa, South Africa, South America and Russia! Check your facts before making silly statements.
(Canadian, 9. August 2007 18:36)
Thanks for that Canadian but I'm afraid you dont know what you are talking about. Over half of Serbian trade is made with EU countries:
'The greatest foreign trade was recorded in commerce with the EU, which accounted for more than half of total trade.'
if you are really convinced, that the EU doesn´t need to close the gap between its southern member Greece and the other memberstates you are either blind or ignorant.
george:
there will not be any independence, don´t you see what is happening in the last weeks? Princip has put it right, now it´s a question of how the EU decides...whether they want to fill that gap or whether they want back down before the US...
they should stop paying Kojen maybe that will put some objectivity into his thoughts. I wonder what he will advise Serbia to do when the rest of the Balkans join the EU. Isolation has worked perfectly so far. Someone said that Serbs have survived the embargo and thus not joining the EU is a hic up. Wow, have you got any idea where Serbia would be today if it wasnt for backward thinkers? If you want to keep living in the middle ages you go right ahead, at least people around the world can come and see how unique your country is.
Well , i must admit that i don`t know what people think in central serbia , but our neighbours in Voivodina want to join the EU , with or without Kosovo.
Just covering their behind. It would almost go the same way, meaning the talks would be suspended by the EU if Serbia does not agree to Kosovo's independence so they preemptively assume the position that could happen to them anyway and say it's our idea.
If you ask me, it makes EU's job a bit easier. But this mentality won't last as the people of Serbia will react eventually.
Lazar said > He is surely, not speaking for the Serbian population.
70% of Serbs (SMART ONES).
I have news for you, Bush does not speak for 75% of the American people since his approval rating is only 25% but yet he still supports the Albanians and Blair when he was in office did not speak for 65% of his people either, these are your two greatest supporters. The Serbian government would be wise to choose Kosovo over the EU. You must look at the Serbian history even as far back as 700 years and you will see that they have never surrendered land without a fight, they have never been a puppet to a larger more powerful nation, not to the Ottoman's, not to the Nazi and now not to the Americans, the same cannot be said for many of the other peoples in the Balkans. I have to respect the resolve of the Serbian people even when they are faced with incredible odds against them!
Kate, Princip, and alban poster
If Switzerland does not need to be in the EU, neither does Serbia. We will do just fine without them. The upcoming plans for pipelines leading through Serbia will ensure our 'security' from ZE Germans.
While the EU countries and our mutual trade is a double edged sword. It has nothing to do with entering or not entering EU. We have shown ourselves to be resilient and resourseful time and time again.
If we survived for 12 years under sanctions this is a hic-up.
None of these countries will cut their trade of with us because they like money a lot. We will gladly cut it off with them and search for other buyers and sellers that are not trying to take appart our sovereignty and constitution.
Predictor
Nice guess but ultimately wrong.
Im from Zemun, Belgrade, Vojvodina, SERBIA. To set the facts streight.
As for Kosovo I am telling u on behalf of EVERY Serb I know. Because I dont know a single Serb that would say... take Kosovo we dont need the people, churches, resources that are ours (resolution 1244) and I dont care about ur myths of illirians bringing and buryin those minerals there during times of dinasours. What I am concerned with are current laws. They all say that Kosovo is Serbia.
PS to put ur argument to rest; I have no one friend or family from Kosovo, I still love all my K-Serbs as brothers and sisters and absolutely nothing less. Neither I nor any Serb I know will contest to that. As well as I do not agree with the way our government has treated them. But I am no politician and I will not question 'such' decisions made by elected officials that I voted for. They have convinced me they are doing everything they can to keep Kosovo while avoiding a minefield of traps and huge differences in their parties views.
Fatos
You are right.
Serbia would be so much better of if the sanctions were never imposed. In a lot of ways. However... Kosovo is still Serbia. Understand that.
CCCC
For the past years after milosevic was arrested(and he finaly died), many people believed Serbia would forget the past and move forward. Instead you serbs killed your own primeminister Djindjic. Now you have a government that depends on kosovo to maintain in office or not. Still the same rethoric comments made by every single politician in serbia that kosova comes first and then europe etc etc. Let me remind you that you serbs need europe, europe doesnt need you. You also talk about territorial integrity etc etc. You own your own country and KOSOVA isnt pat of it since 1999, and i am sure it will never be again. Why wont you move forward to build up something for your own people living in serbia instead of continuing with the tough talks. You always forget the history when it is on your own disfavore. How do you think one nation is so stupid to tell the killer welcome back. WAKE UP SERBIA SHAME ON YOUR POLITICIANS
"The bottom line is that Pristina demands nothing short of independence and Belgrade refuses that, so the new troika will end up where Ahtisaari did: stalemate between the parties and the need for the UN Security Council to cast the deciding vote. Given the Kosovo people's overwhelming desire to be free from the state that tried to eliminate them and the lack of any realistic alternative from Belgrade, the international community has little choice but to give Kosovo its independence."
You guys can comment all day of for the next 100 years, but that will not change the determination of albanians to gain what it was theirs.
Kosovo its goint to become independent wheather you like it or not. No country can stop that.
I would like to point out that the recent poll that said 70% of Serbs would like to join the EU did not take into account the Kosovo linkage.
The earlier poll from a couple of weeks ago dealt with this issue. Nearly 50% of Serb would NOT trade Kosovo for EU membership. So there you go, what Kojen is saying represents nearly 50% of the Serbian population.
Another view of ex...
I think it is very important for Serbia to join EU.
There are countries like Norway and Switzerland who can afford of not being an EU member.They are not fighting poverty like Serbia.
EU is a better future for Serbia.Why not have another referendum and see what people of Serbia want.
When it comes to Kosova/o I think we should do the same,ask them what they want.
Albanians of Kosova/o wanted the independence since 1913.They fought since and are still fighting.It is a long process and it is a dream of many generations that one day they would have a country.I want to give a credit to Albanians from Kosova/o for not giving up the hope that one day they will run the show!
My grandad finished the school in Serbian language,same as my dad.In 70' the University of Prishtina was open so the Kosovan Albanians could finish the studies in their country,rather then going to Belgrade,Zagreb or Sarajevo.
While the Turks almost succeeded of changing our religion,the serbs almost succeeded of changing our names, our future.
So almost 100 years on the Albanians of Kosova/o are still alive.They have a right to decide about their future.For the first time in many decades,Kosovan Albanians are considered equal in Kosova/o and thats is a progress.
Now is the biggest task for us,we have to show to the world that we mean business and we have to talk business.We have to plan that Kosova/o without other non-albanians won't be complete.
'The greatest foreign trade was recorded in commerce with the EU, which accounted for more than half of total trade.'
Who's feeling silly now?
(bganon, 9. August 2007 20:47)
You doing it again friend, a silly statement, that article you mention is referring to trade with all of Europe and not the SMUG 27 member EU club, which is what I am referring to, its only 15% with those 27 nations. Who is feeling silly now?
With the EU and USA as friends, who needs enemy.
Stay as far as possible from US and there poppets
.How can Serbs forget so fast what was done to them by USA and Europe.
I am tired of the US psychological war against the Serbs. Posting these phony polls saying that Serbs choose the EU over Kosovo. I say hold a referendum and see how a large MAJORITY of Serbs want to keep Kosovo. But the US would try to stop that. This website displays posts from albanians who pose as Serbs.
Along with EU "package" that is always pushed in unison is membership of the unstable and internally self bickering military alliance NATO - where the reward is sending your best troops to possible death to support the US wars of self interest!
Well they are not the only military alliance and Serbia needs to keep it's options open - how about strengthening cooepration with SCO? That would send a very strong signal that this if the folly of attempts at dismembering and partitioning the Soverign Sebian state will only be "futile & counterproductive".
The US need to come clean about it's failure of delivery on a promise it never could deliver!
You doing it again friend, a silly statement, that article you mention is referring to trade with all of Europe and not the SMUG 27 member EU club, which is what I am referring to, its only 15% with those 27 nations. Who is feeling silly now?
Canadian, 10. August 2007 01:52)
If you read the link you would realise that it was not an 'article' as you call it, but an official statement from the Serbian government. If you have a problem with the statement take it up with the Serbian statistics office.
If you have some alternative statistics then provide them.
In the meantime who are we supposed to believe you or the official statistics?
I find your hatred of the EU childish and this probably explains your need to try to minimise its role with regard to Serbia.
This is one of the reasons why I like jewish people. They should be proud on Mr. Kojen. Far different than eutocrats, they (he) are wery honest. I'am sorry that we Serbs so desperatelly try to make a friends out of eurabians instead of Jews. And if we just have had more people like Kojen in our history...
Shalom Israel
You may be aware that publishing of Nazi revisionism and The Holocaust denial claims are felonies in the most of EU and B92 is accessible from those juristictions. For example, Ernst Zundel is incarcerated in Germany although his Nazi revisionist website was in U.S. Rationale was that it was accessible from Germany.
The following statement of Adrian Gashi published on B92 site is an act of Holocaust revisionism:
"Are you guys also sorry for making Belgrade Jewish Free city in the WWII
(Adrian Gashi, 10. August 2007 17:01)
I have responded yesterday to another Albanian reader ("Adriano") who used the very same Nazi revisionist claim. Perhaps this is the same person, I do not know, you can tell by the IP address.
It is known historical fact that destruction of Jews in occupied Europe was in the hands of German Nazi apparatus. Serbia was under direct Wehrmacht military control. Making Belgrade Judenrein was German Nazi deed and Serbs had nothing with it. Accusing Serbs for The Holocaust is a ploy to exonerate the real perpetrators, German Nazis. I can understand why Albanians do that, but have no sympathy to this. Similar Nazi revisionist ploy accuses Poland for Auschwitz because it was on Polish territory.
Serbs did not join Waffen SS. Albanians did and had their own Waffen SS Division Skanderbeg.
Having in mind that Albanians eagerly joined Waffen SS Division Skenderbeg and hunted down the Jews, such revisionist claims are neither naive nor misinformed.
Kosovo Albanian Nazi revisionists accuse Nazi victims for the Holocaust, and pretend that they saved the Jews. In reality, it was Italians who saved the Jews in Albania, while Kosovo Albanians hunted down Jews in their midst.
Please consider advising Albanian Nazi revisionists who post on your site to cease and desist,otherwise you may face the legal consequences for the publishing of Nazi revisionist propaganda on your site.
Bob Petrovich Ahmet Isufi also wrote and I quote “DuringWW2 a lot of peole through out Europe, USA, and other continents colaborated with Nazis i cludinga number of Albanians and serbs. So what else is new” Ahmet excuses collaboration that led to the slaughter of Jews and Serbs on the basis that others did it as well. Mr. Petrovich I am sure this is not intentional. It seems to me more of an English language issue rather than intent at blasphemous libel which is also a crime in Canada.
Just an observation:
With all due respect to all participants to that debates on this forum, I must say I'm a little dissapointed by the fact that most of people contributing with ideas (I salute this, I say it again) seem to be mostly persons living out of Kosovo, out of Serbia and even out of Europe... Perhaps this is just a coincidence, I hope I'm not wrong generalizing in this way. However, although opinions expressed on Kosovo issue by Canadians, Americans, Italians, Britons, etc. are surely interesting and valuable (after all, Western countries for decades are those paying the bill for conflicts here...) I would like to see more comments expressed by (European) people directly affected by any of the Kosovo potential evolutions in the near future...
Now, I don't pretend I'm an expert in Kosovo, but I am working here for almost three years, and also I am Romanian (for those not very familiar with Balkan history, my people had always strong and friendly relations with both Serbs and Albanians, at official and grassroots level too) and journalist specialized in international news. So, trying to be as objective as possible (as Tactus said, sine ira et studio) I must say that the area seems to me as going straight toward a 'frozen conflict', somehow like Cyprus... As long as open violence is not erupting on any side of Ibar river, the situation will remain as today: de facto, Northern part of Kosovo is already partitioned, the only thing keeping it together with the rest of Kosovo is the presence&presure of international community (including here the KFOR) and the financial incentives received by K/Serbs living up there, through various institutions (EU, UN/UNHCR, IOM, World Bank etc.) including here the money infused by Pristina Albanian dominated Govt. So, legally but also practically speaking, if Albanians will declare independence in Pristina, then the presence of internationals all over Kosovo becomes without fundament, and no local authorities will cooperate further (Serbs for sure in North, since their separation will not be recognized, maybe even Albanians will cease it, if the recognition of the self-declared indep. will not go as they hope also...) So, except KFOR (because the guys have big guns) everybody else will be left without power. In such case, one should expect accomplishment of the facto partition, since nobody sane will imagine KFOR or UNMIK police will try to impose by force the Pristina-rule in north of Ibar... By consequence, we will have a border on Ibar, with KFOR acting as separator between communities. And in that moment, Albanians and Serbs will have to show if they can leave together in those area where they are mixt (e.g. Caber/Cabra Albanian village in North, or Gracanica enclave Serb- dominated in South... If both sides will start to remove by force the other minority part from their areas, then we will have a bi-direction exodus and finally mono-ethnic South and North areas of Kosovo. If this nightmare scenario will not happen, then the frozen conflict/separation will have a chance to be negociated from new positions, and maybe new solutions will come up, ones not related to political passions and wishful thinking, but to reality in the field. What worries me is that K/Albanian leaders as Fatmir Limaj (ex-KLA commander, now deputy president of PDK) are saying these days that "independence of Kosovo is not the optimal solution, but a compromise that Albanians are making"... Together with threats of possible separation of Srpska Republic from BiH, this kind of statements shows that both sides are playing with fire and nurturing hopes which have nothing to do with the wish and welfare of the people these politicians are supposed to represent...
Best to everybody, and let's hope things will not deteriorate and nobody will suffer.
Does Mr. Kojen believes what he is saying. I really doubt it. For what he pretends gives a hard blow to Serbia's aspirations to be part of European family of free and democratic nations. Mr. Kojen is indicating the opposite - therefore Serbia is not willing to be a free and democratic, due to the cause of Kosova. This can plainly be translated - Serbia will be a free and democratic nation only when the Kosova will gain the indipendence.
Cvele,
Reading your comments one realise that your bottomline is: "Serbs or Albanians - We have to get rid of them".
Just for my curiosity - what causes you to adopt such a hateful stance towards Albanians?
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