Koštunica dubs confederation idea “nonsense”

They will really try anything now! And sorry those-who-I-respect at B92, but why does the headline mention a confederation between Serbia-Kosovo and the text a confederation between Serbia-Albania? These are very different things!

Just WHAT has Kosovo got to do with Albania?? Nothing at all except that the majority of its inhabitatnts are Albanian. Does this mean that anywhere in the world where an ethnic group borders the country of its ancestry they should just be able to merge together?!

Just think about the ramifications around the world, especially in Europe.

The inhumane treatment of the Kovovan Albanians under your regime is a solid testament as of why Kosovo should be independent. You as a government and as a people are aware of that -the fact that Kosovo will be independent. However, I respect you for trying, for coming up with the 'substitution' effect. You will not show this passage but you catch my drift don't you.

the province WON´T get republik, neither inside nor outside serbia.

the status IS clear!

Olf,

You’re a fairly clear writer with generally strong arguments, so I see no reason why you would need to constantly distort reality so much.

First off, I lived in both Serbia and Bosnia and my wife was born and raised in Krajina. So I happen to know the local population very well.

OK, point one
“You disagreed with the attacks of NATO, what makes me believe that you supported Milosevic”

Incorrect, remember the massive student demonstrations against the NATO bombing? Those brave kids with their silly Target Signs? They all hated Milosevic, but came out in the streets to loudly protest the NATO bombing. Yeah, the same people whose protests drove Milosevic out of office.

“Serbs are aware that Kosovo is lost except housewives pensioner”

Olf, that is the only sector of Serbian society that supports WAR to retain Kosovo. That’s very different then what you are saying. The fact is nearly 50% of the Serbian population would NOT trade Kosovo for EU membership and 40% support breaking off ties with countries that recognize Kosovo. While that’s not picking up a gun, its certainly pretty tough sacrifices for something they believe in and has strong support.

“if you read any Serbian please go to B92 in Serbian to find out what do the Serbs living in Serbia and Kosova think of your proposals.”

Olf, this is really a completely nonsensical argument. While I greatly respect B92 and freedom of speech, its incorrect to assume that posters on their site represent the average Serb. First and foremost, anyone commenting on B92 would have to have access to a computer. That means only the younger more affluent generation. In addition, in Serbia B92 is considered rather extremely liberal. Many average Serbs consider B92 to be traitors. Its like going to some far left Libertarian Website in the US and claiming they represent everyone in the US.

While the vast majority of my friends in Belgrade were of the Student Optor type, I did in fact speak with all sectors of Serbian society and the reality is those who post on B92 represent a small minority of mostly affluent student liberal types predominantly from Belgrade. If you can find any posts from your average farmer type, I’d love to see it.

Olf, stick to logic and sound arguments in your comments and you’ll speak from a position of strength. When you deliberately misrepresent reality as you do, it only hurts the strong points you make.

A confederation? With the right of holding a referendum on independance after a fixed period?
What is this, a joke? They are trying to pull off the 'Serbia-Montenegro'-fake-confederation-scam for a second time?
So in the end the Albanians can run off with ALL of Kosovo?

Personally I would prefer that things had gone different in the past. But given the current situation, the amount of Albanians vs. Serbs etc, the ONLY stable, viable, long-term solution is partition.
It will hurt us, but at least we will not forever be burdened with 2+ million Albanians that want nothing to do with Serbia (and vice versa).

I am from Albania and this is UNACCEPTABLE.
NO another chance for Serbia to have under its sovereignty (the illusion serbs create in their minds when part of federal states) a single cm2 of albanian soil.
NOT a chance to put an equality sign between peaceful countries like Albania, with discredited countries which havent yet cleaned themselves from the criminal records, such as Serbia.

Isnt it funny that this very Confederation issue was central point of why Yugoslav republics became independent. Firstly Milosevic cuts autonomy to its provinces and then with Montenegrop proxy gains 4 of 8 votes in Yugoslav presidential council. Milosevic has all the power. Other republics propose confederation. Milosevic does not want to lose new power, says no. Yugoslavia falls apart. And now the very thing that serbs opposed are now proposing to kosovo. ironic.

This might be the much talked about 'bitter pill' that both sides may have to swallow. However it leaves the way open to the K-Albanians seceeding down the line threatening Serbia's territorial integrity. A better proposal might be to resurrect the Yugoslav federation (changing the name from Serbia & flag) and grant Kosovo-Methojia republican status giving it maximum autonomy, powersharing with Belgrade and a fifth of the seats both in the federal parliament and government ministries. Now that would be a sound basis for negotiations.

I represent K-Albanians in this forum, isn’t it obvious. I think your views are of a concern to us Europeans Kate. By the way, don’t you think that Balkans are Europe as well? or maybe it was just a mistake.
Views similar to yours are the ones that brought these areas in this state. I bet you dot understand the implications of your statements. Milosevic started his campaign in the same way.

You disagreed with the attacks of NATO, what makes me believe that you supported Milosevic brutal, terrorist regime. You are lucky that you are not one of the unlucky Serbs with democratic views that suffered under his regime, never mind the K-Albania’s who were murdered, raped terrorised.
US is not changing the borders Kate. IT IS THE POPULATION OF KOSOVA THAT WANT TO CHANGE THE BORDERS.

Did you agree with the NATO intervention in Bosnia?
What do you think of Mladic and Karadzhic

Most of Serbs are aware that Kosovo is lost except housewives pensioner and some entertainers in this B92 forum..

Kate, hard feeling, loosing is part a game. Some parts you win(Sanxhak and lands from Kosova border to Nish) some you loose actual Kosova.

After all Kate, Princip, do you realise that no Serbs living in Kosova or Serbia agree with your comment. I tell you why. They are tired of suggestions similar to yours. They are going to live with Albanians, Croats, Bosnians and Slovenes not you

I don't see te logic, when end result is still Independence. why bother dragging things on with confideration and in the end with right to secede and become a new Albanian state in Balkan. Indpendence is not subject for negotiations, that is it, end of story.

No way, this is not acceptable for Albanians!!!!!!!

Why, oh why, oh why?

Why create another confederation? It is evident that the two nations (Serbs and Kosovan Albanians) do not like one another and do not want to live in the same country, be that a confederation or similar. After all, that is what Yugoslavia used to be, i.e. a confederation. Some might argue that Yugoslavia was a federation, however the fact of the matter is that it was a grouping of 8 countires - according to the 1974 consitution (or 6 major nations).

Also just very recently Serbia and Montenegro were part of a confederation. That didn't work either, although the two nations are much closely 'linked' to one another than Kosovan Albanians and the Serbs are. The Montenegrians wanted their own independent country, and they got it, an so did the Serbs.

I just don't see how this is proposed solution could work!!!

You can call me biased, but I think the best thing for both, Serbs and Kosovan Albanians, is to have their own independent non-confederated countries and then we can all look to the future whcih can only be bright with both Serbia and Kosova(o) in the EU with good neighbourly relations.

God bless. Cheers ...

May I point out that earlier versions of this story spoke of (obviously mistakenly) a confederation between Serbia and Albania. This has now been changed, thank goodness!!

But the fact remains that this solution smacks of desperation, and while I applaud some new ideas being put into the mix this is clearly not the right one! Regardless of what happens now, it opens the way to independence in the future and is just a[nother] stalling tactic.

Just got back form B92 in Serbian. Strange how Serbs and their supporters in disapora are more and better Serbs than those living in Serbia and Kosova. Princip, Shelmerdine, Jovan, Cvele and especially Kate, if you read any Serbian please go to B92 in Serbian to find out what do the Serbs living in Serbia and Kosova think of your proposals. I believe what you will find out is that you have wasted so much time in Kosova issue. You will find out that population of Serbia already accepts Kosova’s independence and that they believe that Kosova is independent now. You will also find out how many Serbs unlike some of you don’t think that Kosova is their cradle and that they will never visit Kosova even if it is for free.

So, I don’t know who do you represent? Definitely not the Serbian people
International law? Well, US and EU are the international law like it or not
Oh maybe S. Milosevic? Well maybe. Your comment are similar to his, sad since he send Serbian nation to 4 lost wars and destroyed lives of millions.

Guys, Kosova issue will be solved one day. I will really welcome you to Kosova if I would be still here. If Kosova gets its independence than I will be here for sure but if it is given to Serbia than I don’t think that Serbian regime(of your style) would let me live at my home.History tells and memories are still fresh

Kate said:
I am just waiting for the story about the latest idea for solving this issue: to merge all of the Balkans into one large land mass and call it the 'Bushman Empire' [sponsored by KFC and administered by some old guy with an unpronouncable name who can't stay awake through meetings].


Oh dear pro-serbian Kate. We already heard that story. Was called Yugoslavia. Was a mass grave for non southern slavic peoples such as albanians (third population on that country after croats and serbs). It was also sponsored by KFC (remember huge loans from west to mantain one part that artificial killer machine?). And was ruled first from that alien called Tito, and later by that butcher which had the gygandism idea that being a serb means beating everybody and remaining unpunished. Thanks God, with Kosovo's defacto independence (and very soon, also de jure) that nightmare is ended. Giving serbs the illusion of being a great nation, has been proved to be dangerous. They are just a small nation of 7 millions. Equally as croats (catholics and muslims). Equally as albanians (catholics, muslims and ortodoxs).

Kostunica is right when he characterises the confederation idea as nonsense. I will not post my opinion, just facts:

1. Kosovo and Metohija is Serbian province – true
2. UN guaranties and recognises Serbian borders that includes province Kosovo I Metohija - true
3. Majority of Kosovo and Metohija population are of Abanian nationality that have their country of called Albania – true
4. Kosovo I Metohija is one of the leading criminal activities proliferation province in the world, from the time it started to be govern by UN and NATO – true
5. Most of the province population does not understand the meaning of the words “law and order” – true
6. By international low an ethnic minority has no rights for territorial independence (in any multi-ethnic society) – true
7. Unilateral decision for independence will automatically correspond in Serbian rights to characterise it as a criminal activity and react with all possible means to defend its own territory and people, with no obligations for any explanations to any foreign entities -true
8. Albanians within Serbia has unique opportunity offered by Serbian government to accept autonomy of province. Consequence of the refusal to accept the generous offer will be desolation of the province borders and province incorporation into proper Serbia – true
Serbians does not have anything against if Albanians that feel nostalgic and want to return to proper Albania where they can exercise all the rights they feel stripped of as a citizens of Serbia - true

Nick - Maybe the pro-Albanians just have more time on their hands.

This solution only delays the inevitable of complicates an already complicated issue.

The Parliament of Kosova made it quite clear to the unity Group yesterday that their mandate begins and ends with the Ahtisari Package. In order to discuss this proposal the Unity Group will need to obtain a new mandate from the Parliament.

If as reported by “Vjecerne Novosti” this will be an EU proposal, then the EU must and most likely understand that if there is to be any chance for this proposal to be accepted it must include the holding of a referendum in a short and specific number of years, stating the approximate date or month in which such referendum will be held.

The Kosova Albanians if “persuaded” to consider this proposal then they will insist and will not compromise on the holding of a referendum in a short number of years.

On the other hand, the referendum will not be acceptable to Serbia and we will be back to nothing.

Anyone with the least bit of knowledge on the Balkans understands that leaving Serbs and Albanians together will ultimately result in conflict. There is too much hatred and distrust that goes back for almost a millennium and a half.

If there is to be any peace in the Balkans, the Serbs and Albanians must separate, this is crucial to the stability of the region and Europe.

Dual sovereignty for Serbia and Kosova it is an old idea proposed by Albanian since early 1990s. The main problem with that is that since that time we have experiences progressive deterioration of relations leading up to the definite demise of the shared values between the two populations which consequently lead to conflict rather than cooperation. That demise of shared values happened independently to my opinion to the constitutional expectations and systems which progressively was prejudicial to the Albanians. At a sociological level human contact between the two nations have been almost no-existent for quite sometime now. For that reason alone I think that discussion of a confederation is a non starter.

Read my lips, nothing but independence for Kosova!

Why do we waste our time talking to the Serbs, have we learned nothing from past dealings with them.

In the end, only independence will satisfy we Albanians and we will have it!

Perfect reminder Dino and very well explained.
There is nothing that makes me believe in Serbian government again.
Does this mean that after the Washington visit Samardjic gave the original statement of US to their politicians? After all, US are much better partner for Serbia than Russia.
Upps, the International law, ramification as Kate says … it is not going to be the first time that the laws change. What happened to the laws in 1913 when Serbia received a present(Kosova, Rashka, Macedonia, Plave inhabited with Albanians) from Int. community, I guess they changed and there were no ramifications at all.
The population(men, women, children, elderly) of those places were brutally murdered by Serbian forces and their property was occupied by the Serbs from Serbia.


Does this mean that Serbia is slowly starting to pave the way for accepting Independence of Kosova?

I bet that the Serbian posters in here are a bit disillusioned and betrayed from their politicians that support the International law or maybe they’ll just change the site like there was never a Kosova issue for them.

Anyhow, thanks for the proposal but I vote for Independence.

Ahmet

I thought the whole point of the K.Alb argument was 'we don't want to live under Serbia anymore because we don't trust them not to persecute us'. So if Kosovo was divided (North of Ibar to Serbia, that dog leg south of prizren to Macedonia, Pec/Decani to Montenegro and the rest to Albania) then the majority of K.Albs would no longer be in Serbia. Also a new failed state would not be created and the viability other small states in the region would be bolstered by increased land and population. Also Pec/Decani would be preserved by being in an Orthodox(but not Serbian) state.

So what is your objection to this if you main need is to be free of Serbian rule? Or do you want to admit that the purpose of K.Alb seperatism is purely to create another ridiculously inadequate state in the Balkans?

Answer me Ahmet is it fear of persecution or separatism for separatisms sake?

Olf: "So, I don’t know who do you represent?"

Why does anyone have to represent anything? It's interesting that you don't think we may just be individuals with a strong view about something which will directly affect us as Europeans. Who do you represent, Olf?

I never agreed with the attack on Serbia, the distortion of the media and I certainly don't agree with the US changing European borders.

If some of the Serbs in Serbia feel that they have lost Kosovo already it is probably because they have not had much to feel optimistic about for a very long time.

Kate, well I think we should all remember that the state union was above all Solana's baby and his failure.

But as you say on the issue its pretty obvious what would follow.

I dont like to dwell on gloomy scenarios or sabre rattle but another worrying issue will be Vojvodina. Vojvodina like Kosovo, is currently a province of Serbia. If provinces have the right to become republics and following that the right to secede Vojvodina will follow suit. Not that Vojvodina suffers from the flag waving nationalism that other former Yug republics did (including Kosovo) but the fact is Vojvodina's politicians will be able to make a lot more money and have a lot more power than they do today. For that reason they would likely follow suit.

Still, I think that Serbia has to be constructive and consider this proposal. Whatever happens from a Serbian perspective its important that Serbia doesnt come out of these new negotiations looking like the problem rather than the solution.

I also think its important for Serbia to talk about and represent all of Kosovo's minorities, to talk about human rights and people rather than land.

On the other hand realistically the situation on the ground speaks for itself. Serbia must be ready to offer great compromises and have an imaginative solution.

Sounds impossible. Well if there is a solution to Northern Ireland there is also a solution for Kosovo.

Kate in many occasion you tried justify actions of brutal Serbian regime against Kosovar Albanians and blaming NATO as a cause of their suffering while entire world knows NATO bombed Serbia to stop genocide it was committed against civilian population. Your attitude towards Albanian victims of Serbian regime shows a lot of your character.
FYI these are the people you defend:
Vaso Cubrilovic

Expulsion of the Albanians (1937)
A memorandum presented to the Royal Yugoslav government which outlines methods for removing Albanians from southern Serbia - a blueprint for ethnic cleansing

http://www.hic.hr/books/greatserbia/cubrilovic.htm


Feel proud of yourself !

This is ridiculous this idea of confederation. Such an alliance works with people of same languages, same culture, as in Canada, but I don't see this links between Serbia and Kosovo.

Serbia should let go. After what happened in 1999, Kosovar Albanians cannot forget the atrocities committed against their people and all compromises cannot work. The USA have understood this; and the EU should do the same. When two spouses have divorced, there is little to be done to bring them back together. What happened in Kosovo between Serbs and Albanians is a divorce, and the Serbs don't understand this.

I think there is some merit in what Ahmet says. But he, as usual, has it back to front.

Since Albanians in powerhave so far demonstrated no ability to run a functioning country, and have turned kosmet into the black hole of Europe, it may be best for the EU to dismember albania and apportion it between Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and greece.

Olf - I don't really care if my comments are 'of concern' to you. I am entitled to them. I find your attitude threatening and aggressive.

By the way, it was my taxes which helped pay for the attack on Serbia (which many people were against - were they all Milosevic clones?). Therefore I am certain that I am entitled to my view.

I hope that Europe never falls into the hands of fundamentalists and nationalists. That was what my own grandfather fought against in WWII.

Bganon,
Do not you worry about Vojvodina, Too many worries brings headache. Serbia has smart polititians that have more grey matter than you got, obviously,
Valid solution already exists and UN Res. 1244 approves it. Another solution exists too but only within the existing one.
I do not think that will be problem with Albanians in the future. Albanians that accept Serbia as its own country will have all rights as any other Serbian background citizen. Criminal elements will have problems with strong Serbian army and police. Citizens of Serbian origin and other nationality refuges will return to their home at the province. Albanian nationals that come from Albania illegally and with no documentation that are Serbian citizens will be escorted back to country where they illegally come from.
Every country has mechanisms used in order to establish and maintenance law and order, so Serbia did. Constitution, low and order have to be respected in Kosovo and Metohija as it is in proper Serbia and Vojvodina.

Niall,

yes there is quite a bit of detail that needs to be negotiated over the autonomy of the Serbian province and it will be good to see these talks finally starting sometine in September - clearly there is a lot to discuss and negotiate about the detail of autonomy - hopefully the ethnic-Albanian leadership come in good faith to negotiate as it does no-one any good to continue with the status quo.

Dino, they are speculating on what the EU may propose not what the Serbian Govt. may propose.

It is time for innovative thinking but any suggestions which will lead to independence by the back door will result in a Russian veto. Other suggestions could be:
1 confederate the municipalities within an autonamous province
2Alto Adige with EU as the guarantor
3 division of kosovo between Serbia/Macedonia/Albania/Montenegro to avoid creation of another failed state
4 Full reintegration into serbia but gerrymandering of voter districts to give Albanians a decent proportional number of seats in parliament.

Or any one of dozens of other ideas which seek a balance.

OK in theory, perhaps an idea that should be considered.
In practice lets not forget the recent experience with Montenegro. That union failed even though Havier Solana was the architect.

Will there be a proviso outlining whether a rebublic can declare independence or not, and when? If a republic (lets be clear, Kosovo) can do this then this plan will in effect, be a legal way to allow Kosovo independence. Perhaps that is a good idea from a Western perspective because Western countries would not be so closely involved.

Message to other posters that think this is some kind of Serb plan - Kostunica has already rejected it. In the short term it might look like a Serbian victory, but in the medium term it would mean Kosovo independence.

However, lets not forget the probable target of this plan - European countries that dont necessarily support independence that want a compromise.

If Britain and the US can get these countries on board Russia would likely lose its battle.

Jack i am dying to know more details how you prposed to give piece of Kosova to neighboring countries, and which piece goes to who.
why you did not propose something like having part of Montengro, serbia and Macedonia that has albanian population and to attachem them to Kosova. Now this would have made sence but not the other way around.

kate "still violating territorial integrity if it is not agreed to by Serbia."
Tell me one time that Serbia said ok. In Croatia? Bosnia? Slovenia? They even gave a hard time to Montenegro and Macedonia.
If you didn't understand kate, Serbia got addicted to a present that was given to them from someone that didn't own it. This present was abused and mishandled until it wanted its own life. And voilà we are coming to the concussion that either this or that way Kosovo will be independent. Kosovo will try every single angle, Serbia has only one side it could defend itself.
"territorial integrity" in {1244}

taras
The one country that is dismantling faster than light is Serbia, Kosovo will go soon, politicians will blame the Hungarians, vojvodina will go, you will blame the Roma and that's all that's left. Worry about your own side man, Albania is fine, no real complaints its the peoples faults that believe in corrupt politicians.

Oh Taras, please. That story of Kosovo the black hole, is the story of your master mind teachers from Belgrade. Come to Kosovo and see it by yourself. You will find that Serbia cities look miserable compared to Prishtina.
And if there is a country to be dismantled because of past failures, that is Serbia.

(Nick, 31. July 2007 16:17

KLA-Kosovo Liberation Army
NC-No Comment
IX-Conservative Serb
UCK-Conservative Albanian
YU-Liberal Serb
AB-Liberal Albanian

Pro-Serb:

raso- IX
kate- IX
Princip, UK -YU
Jack -YU
taras -IX
International Equity -IX

Pro-Albanian:

Ahmet Isufi -KLA
Pandeli -KLA
James Wattsson-KLA
Dino -KLA
Nick -AB
Tex willer -KLA
village-bey -KLA
Sirus Black -KLA
Bandil -KLA
Olf -KLA,UCK.
Victor-baby bottle-
adriano -KLA
Ariold -KLA
Mikel-KLA
Sirus Black-KLA
(Nick, 31. July 2007 16:17

You can't come up with a negotiated settlement when AGIM Ceku is from the Kosovo Liberation Army and also with the UCK.

Native Kosovo albanians are the first people in balkans.Fact albanians today are native race of europe.From Ariold london

Taras says:

"Since Albanians in powerhave so far demonstrated no ability to run a functioning country, and have turned kosmet into the black hole of Europe, it may be best for the EU to dismember albania and apportion it between Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and greece."


Yes Taras, it has been tried before and actually done before. Do not forget that after the WWI, Albania was been partitioned almost as you are suggesting - although I am not sure which bit of Albanian land did the Croats take. The clue (if you bother to search for one) is in the fact that there are (estimated) over 1 milion ethnic Albanians living (and speaking Albanian) in the regions around the KOsova(o) borders with FYRM, Serbia, MOntenegro, and of course last but not least in the border region between Albania itself and Greece. These ethnic Albanians are there and not in Kosova(o) or Albania because they were always there (for centuries), only adminisatrative borders of their countires of residence have moved (a lot in the previous century).

I am bewlidered to hear that there are still people who beliveve publicly claim that this (partition of Albania) is achievable, and that there are still people out there who believe that Serbia could become 'great'. We have to stop living in the past. The days when the great western powers/countries were supporters of Serbia (mainly because of its particiapation in the WWI) are long gone, and frankly they are gone because the Serbs alone and no one else have made this happen - Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova(o), wars, ethnic cleansing, rapes, looting etc.

I wonder after Kosova(o) becomes independent, whether Vojvodina (that last bit of former Yugoslavia still in Serbia) will want to go its own way - as it should.

God bless. Cheers ...

You can only start a confideration if both parties agree to it. its pointless WE ALL KNOW THE END RESULT LETS BE HONEST AND GET ON WITH IT.
whilst the rest of the world is moving forward the serbs are going backwards what is that about exactly.

Kate says:



By the way, it was my taxes which helped pay for the attack on Serbia (which many people were against - were they all Milosevic clones?). Therefore I am certain that I am entitled to my view.

I hope that Europe never falls into the hands of fundamentalists and nationalists. That was what my own grandfather fought against in WWII.
(kate, 31. July 2007 16:21)


Kate - attacks on Serbia were greatly justifed, i.e. Serbia deserved to be bombed, as it did. Ourtax goes everywhere and for many purposes and as long asit fries a nation that has been brutaly treated for over 80 years it gets my vote (and my taxes).

I am sure you are refering to the Serbian (Orthodox) fundamentalism and Serbian blind Nationalism in your post.

Ariold: if you REALLY believe to be a "native race" of europe - than you can´t be helped. diagnosis: incurable!


Olf: your misleading tactics are quite weak actually.
B92 in serbian language is a pool of those Serbs, who want to get rid of you, and they ( a rather small number in comparison to the rest of Serbia ) prefer the easier way.
that´s all. but presenting them to be the majority is just your wishful thinking!

and there is no need for such a nonsense like a confederation, why should a minority within Serbia get the same rights like the majority??? broad autonomy is enough to rule yourself, you don´t need more to live in peace ( if you are capable of that at all ) and to prove that you can earn your own living through your own hands work.

confederation is only a media-hoax. not more.

There is no point in RE-INVENTING the wheel. Laws regarding ethnic minorities already exist. The same law that apply to all other countries should be applied to Serbia as well. War existed before 1999 and there are many countries at war today (USA included this time). Same laws and principals must be applied to ALL. Serbs are ONLY asking to be treated like anybody else. Nothing MORE, nothing LESS. We WILL fight for our rights, and do not attack us for defending our God given rights.

The truth regarding events in Kosovo prior to intervention;
1. There was no genocide by state be that actual or planned.
2. The KLA terrorists were attacking and killing police, judicial oficials and civilians of all ethnicities.
3. The state reacted to terrorism and yes as the US terms it in their conflict zones "collateral damage" did occur but in the 2/3 years of the Serbian States attempt to quell the terrorist KLA insurgency it is accepted that;
"The death toll in Kosovo was in the hundreds before the start of the bombing campaign. It was around 5,000 by the end. Not quite the "genocide" that some people claimed, incidentally, but not a good precedent either.

I was working at Amnesty International during the Kosovo crisis. I first visited refugee camps in Albania and Macedonia during the conflict and then spent a year in Pristina seconded into the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. Tony Blair says that we "reversed ethnic cleansing" there, but I would not count the expulsion of over 100,000 Serbs and Roma from a province guarded by 40,000 Nato troops as a success."
- Conor Foley (research fellow at the Human Rights Law Centre at the University of Nottingham)
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/take_two/2007/04/oliver_kamm_v_conor_foley.html

4. Resolution 1244 was formulated signed and agreed by the UN SC (including US, UK & France) on 10th June 1999 to bring an end to conflict and peace. This reaffirms Serbia's Sovereignity and without a new resolution it cannot be rescinded hence the new talks!

Truth is Serbia is a soverign state and all it's citizens are Serbian the sooner this reality sinks in the sooner reconciliation and economic development of its Southern province can begin. The EU will be the pivot of the Troika and given that it's foundations are about bringing epoples together and pulling down walls it is highly unlikely to force and impose the creation of an artificial entity of a 2nd Albanian state out of a portion of Serbia's province. The US have been told that the EU will not follow Illegal and unilateral methods which attempt to by-pass and undermine the UN - the US bluff has been called hence the new talks and in the months ahead there will be another reason for allowing them to continue to a win-win solution that is agreeable to all.

Olf - anyone who thinks Serbia "lost four wars" isn't worth listening to.

adriano, Serbia is the same size now as it was in 1945 and 1991. And Hungarians make up only 15% of Vojvodina's population. Plus advocating a province's independence when no one actually there is campaigning for it is rather amusing!

Ulitmately the problem for the independence supporters of Kosovo (USA et al) isn't that Russia and Serbia won't agree to it, but that they themselves agreed back in 1999 that it should remain part of Serbia with the 1244 resolution.

Nick - that was one of the most ridiculous comments I've read on here, and I've read plenty. Bye the way, you forgot me on your list. I think most Serbs are too busy working, or playing sports, or having fun. Furthermore, we have our land and our country, own it legally, and there is nothing you can do about that.

To Nick & his "list" - who cares. Are you listing these "pro-albanian" posters for a reason other than "publicity"?

Secondly, I'm a bit disappointed in laki, NY's comment.

When is everyone just going to come to the realization the obvious - albanians don't mesh with Serbs; Serbs don't mesh with albanians. albanians who reside in KosovO don't want to be called Serbians, pay taxes or give back property/make restitution for damages they've cause -

The solution is simple - all of the invaders should go back to albania & then the UN/EU/US can pay for a wall to be erected just like Israel did.

Keep it simple

bganon: "However, lets not forget the probable target of this plan - European countries that dont necessarily support independence that want a compromise."

I think that's a good point.
But at the end of the day they are still violating territorial integrity if it is not agreed to by Serbia. And this is one of the main sticking points within Europe.

It would be very shortsighted, not to mention patronising, to expect anyone not to think that it would certainly lead to independence. And this would still become a dangerous precedent for other nations.

(P.S. Were you being ironic about Javier Solana's abilities?!)

Dear B92 - No problem. Easy mistake. The US, half of the EU and many contributors on this site are always confusing Kosovo with Albania!! Someone there just got temporarily indoctrinated.

I am just waiting for the story about the latest idea for solving this issue: to merge all of the Balkans into one large land mass and call it the 'Bushman Empire' [sponsored by KFC and administered by some old guy with an unpronouncable name who can't stay awake through meetings].

I dont know how you plan to keep Kosova when you are outnumbered even in a Serb run media such as B92. Below are the numbers of pro-serb and pro-albanian posters who have commented up to this point. Almost 3-1 in favor of the Albanian arguement.

Clearly this shows your true interest in Kosova and how much ordinary Serbs really care about it.

Furthermore, of the pro-serbian supportes below a vast majority live abroad and have probably never even been to Kosova.

Pro-Serb:

raso
kate
MLKG
Princip, UK
Jack
taras
International Equity

Pro-Albanian:

Ahmet Isufi
Pandeli
James Wattsson
Dino
Nick
Tex willer
village-bey
Sirus Black
Bandil
Olf
Victor
adriano
Ariold
Mikel
Sirus Black

Well, well, well. It's a rare thing to find an article with nearly 40 comments on it already in the morning. Too bad about 30 of them are empty boasts and the tired and repetitive nationalist assertions graffitied all over this site every day. The prospect of confederation should not take place between Serbia and Kosovo, but WITHIN Kosovo itself. Albanians have no right to control land that is clearly Serb held, or hold significant value for the Serbs, be it cultural, religious, or historical. Most of the Pro-Albanian posters today are giving the "all or nothing" argument for Kosovo when they only control about 85% of the region, and even then, will be shackled to the EU. No, no, we're going about this all wrong. If Kosovo is to be given independence, let it have its independence, but divide Kosovo up along Albanian and Serb confederate lines. By making it a confederation with Serbia, Albanians somehow get all of Kosovo, which is unfair and unrealistic. The Serbs control what they currently control, and the Albanians retain what they currently retain.

"Kosovo would have the same status as Serbia." That is another way of saying Kosovo will be independent. How many more times will the pro-independence camp try trickery before they realize the Serbs/Russians are not so naive?

THE problem of the Balkans is precisely the type of thinking which insist some kind of joint ethnic collective. (Yeah the Borg if you like)

Its ridiculous to suggest that one person can represent the whole view of their ethnic group. It reminds me of those ridiculous t-shirts and graffiti that used to be common in Belgrade 'Every Serb is Radovan'. I hear similar t-shirts are available in Croatia for Gotovina. These idiots wont wear T-shirts with Tesla and consider their people scientists. Oh no, they consider their people murderers. The majority of Serbian, Croatian, Albanian etc people certainly are not murderers. Rather, these supposed war hero worshippers are scum and want to implicate the rest of us.

We are all individuals with minds of our own. And if we support our 'tribe' without even considering an issue it shows how mindless we are.

It is precisely this screwed up thinking that enabled people in the Balkans to ignore the humanity of those that didnt belong to 'our' ethnic group. In other words part of the old mind-set, part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Thus Nick and Olf (whose list I was omitted from) explain who I represent exactly.

Damn right, I represent myself, rather than being somebody elses monkey, so should you.

International equity 'Serbia has got smart politicians'.
Hmm, run that by me again. Are you sure? Likewise, I'm wondering about your own (lack) of grey matter from this statement and your fantasy scenario following.

Message to those that supported NATO bombardment. Did it make you proud that an action you supported killed civilians as well?

Lets have a little more humanity people.

Expulsion of the Albanians (1937)
A memorandum presented to the Royal Yugoslav government which outlines methods for removing Albanians from southern Serbia - a blueprint for ethnic cleansing

[link]

Feel proud of yourself !
(laki NY, 31. July 2007 17:28)

Your comments are defamation of character. Why are you trying to make put someone in the shoes of advocates of Greater Serbia in the early 19th and 20th Century.

Do you realized that Dragutin Dimitrijevic , aka APIS was shot by military tribunal on the orders of King Alexander Karadjeordjevic for high treason during WW I (Apis organized the assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina)

While various high Military Officers and Nationalists at that time looked to a Greater Serbia, this was far removed from the Governments in power.

As far as Milosevic, he was not even a nationalist, so to portray him as seeking a "Greater Serbia" is a joke at best.

However, Agim Ceku, KLA Terrorist is the prototypical nationalist who should be in a jail cell, not leading an illegal country.

Very funny-Serbs knows what federation means. Wonder how many more tricks US has up its sleaves. It is not so easy to grab someones land. If i let someone in my house as frendly gesture and that person starts distroying my house and demands deed on my hose because they happen to have 10 more relatives in house then i have-am i sepose to submit? Nonsence! All these remarks about what serbs had done to albaniens is getting old. Most of it was your propaganda in order to bring in "Uncle Sam" to steel what belongs to someone else.

You know that you have a good
deal when both sides leave the table unhappy.

This situation is becoming quite comical.Kosova from my understanding once was an autonomy of former yugoslavia not of serbia.Look what happened.If it's alleged tostay the same again all the loses that have occured especially to the kosovars happened with no consequences. Kosova other than independence is a complete joke.Kostunica is grabbing at straws.The serbs allegedly say kosova is it's heart and history.Where were the slavs when the barbarians were in the balkans they weren't were.Wjere were the serbsduring the goth era in the balkans nowhere the romans ,the greeks the macedonians, the huns the mongols. I hope you got the point the illyrians where there from before these conquest. So i don't see where thew serbs are so deeply rooted in kosovo. It'sa new world with new orders and the serb's trully don't appreciate modernization. Thats why for the past twenty years they have tried to keep us medival but nothing last for ever. So goodluck to all the serbs with their new boundaries and i hope we all prosper. Kosova will

Laki, I can provide you with at a hundred links where people do not believe that NATO bombed for humanitarian reasons. And they show proof. So please, you are not the world's spokesman. Just speak for yourself.

This has to be the worst case of International Policy ever implemented!
How can Nato have one set of rules for one country and different for other!!
It's a great example to set to the rest of the world.
Why does UN even exist, why do all these countries waste money on such redicilous plans, policies and resolutions? Give up! It's too hard!
Europe has to start setting ultimatums and stop playing the political correctness.
Why push ideas of redicilous countries that will never work (i.e. BIH and Confederation). All this is doing is creating another Isreal Vs Palestine. North Kosovo to Serbia, the rest to Albania and no countries in-between. In fact while your at it chop up Bosnia (there is no future in this type of federation) Half/Half and some of Sandjak can go with Kosovo or Bosnia (who ever wants it or where ever it wants to be)
The people in the Balkans are so pumped up with rage over the past 600 years that you realy do need defined borders to keep them at peace and the only way either side will give up anything is if they get something in return. Serbian Republic for Kosovo

Kate,

Hightly unlikely, in fact i am apsolutely certain most of the Albanian commenters here are working people :)

Nick
What about me?
CCCC

First of all, thanx to Konstatin Gregorevic for putting me as a KLA member. I remember serb police comming up with the same lists of normal people in Kosovo after hunting and killing them. "It was a KLA terrorist", was the justification for everything. Congratulations constantin. But for your information and of those who have their mouth full of "KLA terrorists", KLA was the whole Kosovo. It was the hope of our people, it was all of us, and you cant decide the whole people is terrorist. As for me, I didnt happen but, damn I wish I was a member of KLA and fight for the freedom of my country from a state which first invades you, and later says: oh, but you are just a minority on my WHOLE territory and population. How can you pretend for freedom? This is an answer also for the following post:

"and there is no need for such a nonsense like a confederation, why should a minority within Serbia get the same rights like the majority??? broad autonomy is enough to rule yourself, you don´t need more to live in peace ( if you are capable of that at all ) and to prove that you can earn your own living through your own hands work.
(Jovan, 31. July 2007 20:50)


Another thing: I see here posters getting worried about the NATO bombing campaign of the state of Serbia. Why not being worried about ALMOST 10.000 victims of your guys on my country, which were by the way the REASON of NATO bombing campaign? Why not getting worried about 1 million expulsed albanians? Kosovo will become independent wish it or not. There is no, I repeat, NO WAY, serbs can convince 2 million albanians which they abused since 1913, to share the same roof with them. Everything else, including this flood of proserbian words and cries in this forum, is vain.

Dear Kate,

Thank you for pointing out to the mistake in the original article.

We apologize to you and all our visitors and once again thank you all for your contribution and patience

B92

Jack, thanks for the wonderful comment but you have a valuid point but its backwards. parts of montenogro have and always be illyrian land, macedonia parts of it 30%were illyrians. Serbia never existed till the 12 century.So why we just don't settle the origanal borders"kosova e kuqe"since you say this belongs to him or her. laws change treaties are renewed but serbian authority has vanquished read about the true history of the area serbs never existed in the balkansa they are from russia

Nick i read your comment about the pro albainan and pro serb camp and those who are serb have never been to Kosovo. Sir do you live there now? Alot of people who comment have never been to Kosovo and even the pro albanian side don't even live there but in either Canada, Western Europe or the US. I think sir alot those who claim to be there have never been. Yes M.Miller lives there because i have spoke to him serveral times going through the gates at Camp Bondsteel. You did not put him in the Pro Albanian Camp need to correct that Nick. Now for the others i am not sure but M.Miller i know he lives there.

The inhumane treatment of the Kovovan Albanians under your regime is a solid testament as of why Kosovo should be independent. You as a government and as a people are aware of that -the fact that Kosovo will be independent. However, I respect you for trying, for coming up with the 'substitution' effect. You will not show this passage but you catch my drift don't you.

I am from Albania and this is UNACCEPTABLE.
NO another chance for Serbia to have under its sovereignty (the illusion serbs create in their minds when part of federal states) a single cm2 of albanian soil.
NOT a chance to put an equality sign between peaceful countries like Albania, with discredited countries which havent yet cleaned themselves from the criminal records, such as Serbia.

Isnt it funny that this very Confederation issue was central point of why Yugoslav republics became independent. Firstly Milosevic cuts autonomy to its provinces and then with Montenegrop proxy gains 4 of 8 votes in Yugoslav presidential council. Milosevic has all the power. Other republics propose confederation. Milosevic does not want to lose new power, says no. Yugoslavia falls apart. And now the very thing that serbs opposed are now proposing to kosovo. ironic.

I don't see te logic, when end result is still Independence. why bother dragging things on with confideration and in the end with right to secede and become a new Albanian state in Balkan. Indpendence is not subject for negotiations, that is it, end of story.

This might be the much talked about 'bitter pill' that both sides may have to swallow. However it leaves the way open to the K-Albanians seceeding down the line threatening Serbia's territorial integrity. A better proposal might be to resurrect the Yugoslav federation (changing the name from Serbia & flag) and grant Kosovo-Methojia republican status giving it maximum autonomy, powersharing with Belgrade and a fifth of the seats both in the federal parliament and government ministries. Now that would be a sound basis for negotiations.

Read my lips, nothing but independence for Kosova!

Why do we waste our time talking to the Serbs, have we learned nothing from past dealings with them.

In the end, only independence will satisfy we Albanians and we will have it!

This is ridiculous this idea of confederation. Such an alliance works with people of same languages, same culture, as in Canada, but I don't see this links between Serbia and Kosovo.

Serbia should let go. After what happened in 1999, Kosovar Albanians cannot forget the atrocities committed against their people and all compromises cannot work. The USA have understood this; and the EU should do the same. When two spouses have divorced, there is little to be done to bring them back together. What happened in Kosovo between Serbs and Albanians is a divorce, and the Serbs don't understand this.

Native Kosovo albanians are the first people in balkans.Fact albanians today are native race of europe.From Ariold london

Kate in many occasion you tried justify actions of brutal Serbian regime against Kosovar Albanians and blaming NATO as a cause of their suffering while entire world knows NATO bombed Serbia to stop genocide it was committed against civilian population. Your attitude towards Albanian victims of Serbian regime shows a lot of your character.
FYI these are the people you defend:
Vaso Cubrilovic

Expulsion of the Albanians (1937)
A memorandum presented to the Royal Yugoslav government which outlines methods for removing Albanians from southern Serbia - a blueprint for ethnic cleansing

http://www.hic.hr/books/greatserbia/cubrilovic.htm


Feel proud of yourself !

They will really try anything now! And sorry those-who-I-respect at B92, but why does the headline mention a confederation between Serbia-Kosovo and the text a confederation between Serbia-Albania? These are very different things!

Just WHAT has Kosovo got to do with Albania?? Nothing at all except that the majority of its inhabitatnts are Albanian. Does this mean that anywhere in the world where an ethnic group borders the country of its ancestry they should just be able to merge together?!

Just think about the ramifications around the world, especially in Europe.

Perfect reminder Dino and very well explained.
There is nothing that makes me believe in Serbian government again.
Does this mean that after the Washington visit Samardjic gave the original statement of US to their politicians? After all, US are much better partner for Serbia than Russia.
Upps, the International law, ramification as Kate says … it is not going to be the first time that the laws change. What happened to the laws in 1913 when Serbia received a present(Kosova, Rashka, Macedonia, Plave inhabited with Albanians) from Int. community, I guess they changed and there were no ramifications at all.
The population(men, women, children, elderly) of those places were brutally murdered by Serbian forces and their property was occupied by the Serbs from Serbia.


Does this mean that Serbia is slowly starting to pave the way for accepting Independence of Kosova?

I bet that the Serbian posters in here are a bit disillusioned and betrayed from their politicians that support the International law or maybe they’ll just change the site like there was never a Kosova issue for them.

Anyhow, thanks for the proposal but I vote for Independence.

I think there is some merit in what Ahmet says. But he, as usual, has it back to front.

Since Albanians in powerhave so far demonstrated no ability to run a functioning country, and have turned kosmet into the black hole of Europe, it may be best for the EU to dismember albania and apportion it between Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and greece.

I dont know how you plan to keep Kosova when you are outnumbered even in a Serb run media such as B92. Below are the numbers of pro-serb and pro-albanian posters who have commented up to this point. Almost 3-1 in favor of the Albanian arguement.

Clearly this shows your true interest in Kosova and how much ordinary Serbs really care about it.

Furthermore, of the pro-serbian supportes below a vast majority live abroad and have probably never even been to Kosova.

Pro-Serb:

raso
kate
MLKG
Princip, UK
Jack
taras
International Equity

Pro-Albanian:

Ahmet Isufi
Pandeli
James Wattsson
Dino
Nick
Tex willer
village-bey
Sirus Black
Bandil
Olf
Victor
adriano
Ariold
Mikel
Sirus Black

Kate says:



By the way, it was my taxes which helped pay for the attack on Serbia (which many people were against - were they all Milosevic clones?). Therefore I am certain that I am entitled to my view.

I hope that Europe never falls into the hands of fundamentalists and nationalists. That was what my own grandfather fought against in WWII.
(kate, 31. July 2007 16:21)


Kate - attacks on Serbia were greatly justifed, i.e. Serbia deserved to be bombed, as it did. Ourtax goes everywhere and for many purposes and as long asit fries a nation that has been brutaly treated for over 80 years it gets my vote (and my taxes).

I am sure you are refering to the Serbian (Orthodox) fundamentalism and Serbian blind Nationalism in your post.

Jack i am dying to know more details how you prposed to give piece of Kosova to neighboring countries, and which piece goes to who.
why you did not propose something like having part of Montengro, serbia and Macedonia that has albanian population and to attachem them to Kosova. Now this would have made sence but not the other way around.

kate "still violating territorial integrity if it is not agreed to by Serbia."
Tell me one time that Serbia said ok. In Croatia? Bosnia? Slovenia? They even gave a hard time to Montenegro and Macedonia.
If you didn't understand kate, Serbia got addicted to a present that was given to them from someone that didn't own it. This present was abused and mishandled until it wanted its own life. And voilà we are coming to the concussion that either this or that way Kosovo will be independent. Kosovo will try every single angle, Serbia has only one side it could defend itself.
"territorial integrity" in {1244}

Kate said:
I am just waiting for the story about the latest idea for solving this issue: to merge all of the Balkans into one large land mass and call it the 'Bushman Empire' [sponsored by KFC and administered by some old guy with an unpronouncable name who can't stay awake through meetings].


Oh dear pro-serbian Kate. We already heard that story. Was called Yugoslavia. Was a mass grave for non southern slavic peoples such as albanians (third population on that country after croats and serbs). It was also sponsored by KFC (remember huge loans from west to mantain one part that artificial killer machine?). And was ruled first from that alien called Tito, and later by that butcher which had the gygandism idea that being a serb means beating everybody and remaining unpunished. Thanks God, with Kosovo's defacto independence (and very soon, also de jure) that nightmare is ended. Giving serbs the illusion of being a great nation, has been proved to be dangerous. They are just a small nation of 7 millions. Equally as croats (catholics and muslims). Equally as albanians (catholics, muslims and ortodoxs).

taras
The one country that is dismantling faster than light is Serbia, Kosovo will go soon, politicians will blame the Hungarians, vojvodina will go, you will blame the Roma and that's all that's left. Worry about your own side man, Albania is fine, no real complaints its the peoples faults that believe in corrupt politicians.

Oh Taras, please. That story of Kosovo the black hole, is the story of your master mind teachers from Belgrade. Come to Kosovo and see it by yourself. You will find that Serbia cities look miserable compared to Prishtina.
And if there is a country to be dismantled because of past failures, that is Serbia.

I represent K-Albanians in this forum, isn’t it obvious. I think your views are of a concern to us Europeans Kate. By the way, don’t you think that Balkans are Europe as well? or maybe it was just a mistake.
Views similar to yours are the ones that brought these areas in this state. I bet you dot understand the implications of your statements. Milosevic started his campaign in the same way.

You disagreed with the attacks of NATO, what makes me believe that you supported Milosevic brutal, terrorist regime. You are lucky that you are not one of the unlucky Serbs with democratic views that suffered under his regime, never mind the K-Albania’s who were murdered, raped terrorised.
US is not changing the borders Kate. IT IS THE POPULATION OF KOSOVA THAT WANT TO CHANGE THE BORDERS.

Did you agree with the NATO intervention in Bosnia?
What do you think of Mladic and Karadzhic

Most of Serbs are aware that Kosovo is lost except housewives pensioner and some entertainers in this B92 forum..

Kate, hard feeling, loosing is part a game. Some parts you win(Sanxhak and lands from Kosova border to Nish) some you loose actual Kosova.

After all Kate, Princip, do you realise that no Serbs living in Kosova or Serbia agree with your comment. I tell you why. They are tired of suggestions similar to yours. They are going to live with Albanians, Croats, Bosnians and Slovenes not you

You can only start a confideration if both parties agree to it. its pointless WE ALL KNOW THE END RESULT LETS BE HONEST AND GET ON WITH IT.
whilst the rest of the world is moving forward the serbs are going backwards what is that about exactly.

the province WON´T get republik, neither inside nor outside serbia.

the status IS clear!

This solution only delays the inevitable of complicates an already complicated issue.

The Parliament of Kosova made it quite clear to the unity Group yesterday that their mandate begins and ends with the Ahtisari Package. In order to discuss this proposal the Unity Group will need to obtain a new mandate from the Parliament.

If as reported by “Vjecerne Novosti” this will be an EU proposal, then the EU must and most likely understand that if there is to be any chance for this proposal to be accepted it must include the holding of a referendum in a short and specific number of years, stating the approximate date or month in which such referendum will be held.

The Kosova Albanians if “persuaded” to consider this proposal then they will insist and will not compromise on the holding of a referendum in a short number of years.

On the other hand, the referendum will not be acceptable to Serbia and we will be back to nothing.

Anyone with the least bit of knowledge on the Balkans understands that leaving Serbs and Albanians together will ultimately result in conflict. There is too much hatred and distrust that goes back for almost a millennium and a half.

If there is to be any peace in the Balkans, the Serbs and Albanians must separate, this is crucial to the stability of the region and Europe.

Niall,

yes there is quite a bit of detail that needs to be negotiated over the autonomy of the Serbian province and it will be good to see these talks finally starting sometine in September - clearly there is a lot to discuss and negotiate about the detail of autonomy - hopefully the ethnic-Albanian leadership come in good faith to negotiate as it does no-one any good to continue with the status quo.

Dual sovereignty for Serbia and Kosova it is an old idea proposed by Albanian since early 1990s. The main problem with that is that since that time we have experiences progressive deterioration of relations leading up to the definite demise of the shared values between the two populations which consequently lead to conflict rather than cooperation. That demise of shared values happened independently to my opinion to the constitutional expectations and systems which progressively was prejudicial to the Albanians. At a sociological level human contact between the two nations have been almost no-existent for quite sometime now. For that reason alone I think that discussion of a confederation is a non starter.

Dino, they are speculating on what the EU may propose not what the Serbian Govt. may propose.

It is time for innovative thinking but any suggestions which will lead to independence by the back door will result in a Russian veto. Other suggestions could be:
1 confederate the municipalities within an autonamous province
2Alto Adige with EU as the guarantor
3 division of kosovo between Serbia/Macedonia/Albania/Montenegro to avoid creation of another failed state
4 Full reintegration into serbia but gerrymandering of voter districts to give Albanians a decent proportional number of seats in parliament.

Or any one of dozens of other ideas which seek a balance.

Just got back form B92 in Serbian. Strange how Serbs and their supporters in disapora are more and better Serbs than those living in Serbia and Kosova. Princip, Shelmerdine, Jovan, Cvele and especially Kate, if you read any Serbian please go to B92 in Serbian to find out what do the Serbs living in Serbia and Kosova think of your proposals. I believe what you will find out is that you have wasted so much time in Kosova issue. You will find out that population of Serbia already accepts Kosova’s independence and that they believe that Kosova is independent now. You will also find out how many Serbs unlike some of you don’t think that Kosova is their cradle and that they will never visit Kosova even if it is for free.

So, I don’t know who do you represent? Definitely not the Serbian people
International law? Well, US and EU are the international law like it or not
Oh maybe S. Milosevic? Well maybe. Your comment are similar to his, sad since he send Serbian nation to 4 lost wars and destroyed lives of millions.

Guys, Kosova issue will be solved one day. I will really welcome you to Kosova if I would be still here. If Kosova gets its independence than I will be here for sure but if it is given to Serbia than I don’t think that Serbian regime(of your style) would let me live at my home.History tells and memories are still fresh

Ahmet

I thought the whole point of the K.Alb argument was 'we don't want to live under Serbia anymore because we don't trust them not to persecute us'. So if Kosovo was divided (North of Ibar to Serbia, that dog leg south of prizren to Macedonia, Pec/Decani to Montenegro and the rest to Albania) then the majority of K.Albs would no longer be in Serbia. Also a new failed state would not be created and the viability other small states in the region would be bolstered by increased land and population. Also Pec/Decani would be preserved by being in an Orthodox(but not Serbian) state.

So what is your objection to this if you main need is to be free of Serbian rule? Or do you want to admit that the purpose of K.Alb seperatism is purely to create another ridiculously inadequate state in the Balkans?

Answer me Ahmet is it fear of persecution or separatism for separatisms sake?

Kostunica is right when he characterises the confederation idea as nonsense. I will not post my opinion, just facts:

1. Kosovo and Metohija is Serbian province – true
2. UN guaranties and recognises Serbian borders that includes province Kosovo I Metohija - true
3. Majority of Kosovo and Metohija population are of Abanian nationality that have their country of called Albania – true
4. Kosovo I Metohija is one of the leading criminal activities proliferation province in the world, from the time it started to be govern by UN and NATO – true
5. Most of the province population does not understand the meaning of the words “law and order” – true
6. By international low an ethnic minority has no rights for territorial independence (in any multi-ethnic society) – true
7. Unilateral decision for independence will automatically correspond in Serbian rights to characterise it as a criminal activity and react with all possible means to defend its own territory and people, with no obligations for any explanations to any foreign entities -true
8. Albanians within Serbia has unique opportunity offered by Serbian government to accept autonomy of province. Consequence of the refusal to accept the generous offer will be desolation of the province borders and province incorporation into proper Serbia – true
Serbians does not have anything against if Albanians that feel nostalgic and want to return to proper Albania where they can exercise all the rights they feel stripped of as a citizens of Serbia - true

Taras says:

"Since Albanians in powerhave so far demonstrated no ability to run a functioning country, and have turned kosmet into the black hole of Europe, it may be best for the EU to dismember albania and apportion it between Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and greece."


Yes Taras, it has been tried before and actually done before. Do not forget that after the WWI, Albania was been partitioned almost as you are suggesting - although I am not sure which bit of Albanian land did the Croats take. The clue (if you bother to search for one) is in the fact that there are (estimated) over 1 milion ethnic Albanians living (and speaking Albanian) in the regions around the KOsova(o) borders with FYRM, Serbia, MOntenegro, and of course last but not least in the border region between Albania itself and Greece. These ethnic Albanians are there and not in Kosova(o) or Albania because they were always there (for centuries), only adminisatrative borders of their countires of residence have moved (a lot in the previous century).

I am bewlidered to hear that there are still people who beliveve publicly claim that this (partition of Albania) is achievable, and that there are still people out there who believe that Serbia could become 'great'. We have to stop living in the past. The days when the great western powers/countries were supporters of Serbia (mainly because of its particiapation in the WWI) are long gone, and frankly they are gone because the Serbs alone and no one else have made this happen - Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova(o), wars, ethnic cleansing, rapes, looting etc.

I wonder after Kosova(o) becomes independent, whether Vojvodina (that last bit of former Yugoslavia still in Serbia) will want to go its own way - as it should.

God bless. Cheers ...

This situation is becoming quite comical.Kosova from my understanding once was an autonomy of former yugoslavia not of serbia.Look what happened.If it's alleged tostay the same again all the loses that have occured especially to the kosovars happened with no consequences. Kosova other than independence is a complete joke.Kostunica is grabbing at straws.The serbs allegedly say kosova is it's heart and history.Where were the slavs when the barbarians were in the balkans they weren't were.Wjere were the serbsduring the goth era in the balkans nowhere the romans ,the greeks the macedonians, the huns the mongols. I hope you got the point the illyrians where there from before these conquest. So i don't see where thew serbs are so deeply rooted in kosovo. It'sa new world with new orders and the serb's trully don't appreciate modernization. Thats why for the past twenty years they have tried to keep us medival but nothing last for ever. So goodluck to all the serbs with their new boundaries and i hope we all prosper. Kosova will

Why, oh why, oh why?

Why create another confederation? It is evident that the two nations (Serbs and Kosovan Albanians) do not like one another and do not want to live in the same country, be that a confederation or similar. After all, that is what Yugoslavia used to be, i.e. a confederation. Some might argue that Yugoslavia was a federation, however the fact of the matter is that it was a grouping of 8 countires - according to the 1974 consitution (or 6 major nations).

Also just very recently Serbia and Montenegro were part of a confederation. That didn't work either, although the two nations are much closely 'linked' to one another than Kosovan Albanians and the Serbs are. The Montenegrians wanted their own independent country, and they got it, an so did the Serbs.

I just don't see how this is proposed solution could work!!!

You can call me biased, but I think the best thing for both, Serbs and Kosovan Albanians, is to have their own independent non-confederated countries and then we can all look to the future whcih can only be bright with both Serbia and Kosova(o) in the EU with good neighbourly relations.

God bless. Cheers ...

OK in theory, perhaps an idea that should be considered.
In practice lets not forget the recent experience with Montenegro. That union failed even though Havier Solana was the architect.

Will there be a proviso outlining whether a rebublic can declare independence or not, and when? If a republic (lets be clear, Kosovo) can do this then this plan will in effect, be a legal way to allow Kosovo independence. Perhaps that is a good idea from a Western perspective because Western countries would not be so closely involved.

Message to other posters that think this is some kind of Serb plan - Kostunica has already rejected it. In the short term it might look like a Serbian victory, but in the medium term it would mean Kosovo independence.

However, lets not forget the probable target of this plan - European countries that dont necessarily support independence that want a compromise.

If Britain and the US can get these countries on board Russia would likely lose its battle.

Olf: "So, I don’t know who do you represent?"

Why does anyone have to represent anything? It's interesting that you don't think we may just be individuals with a strong view about something which will directly affect us as Europeans. Who do you represent, Olf?

I never agreed with the attack on Serbia, the distortion of the media and I certainly don't agree with the US changing European borders.

If some of the Serbs in Serbia feel that they have lost Kosovo already it is probably because they have not had much to feel optimistic about for a very long time.

Nick - Maybe the pro-Albanians just have more time on their hands.

Expulsion of the Albanians (1937)
A memorandum presented to the Royal Yugoslav government which outlines methods for removing Albanians from southern Serbia - a blueprint for ethnic cleansing

[link]

Feel proud of yourself !
(laki NY, 31. July 2007 17:28)

Your comments are defamation of character. Why are you trying to make put someone in the shoes of advocates of Greater Serbia in the early 19th and 20th Century.

Do you realized that Dragutin Dimitrijevic , aka APIS was shot by military tribunal on the orders of King Alexander Karadjeordjevic for high treason during WW I (Apis organized the assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina)

While various high Military Officers and Nationalists at that time looked to a Greater Serbia, this was far removed from the Governments in power.

As far as Milosevic, he was not even a nationalist, so to portray him as seeking a "Greater Serbia" is a joke at best.

However, Agim Ceku, KLA Terrorist is the prototypical nationalist who should be in a jail cell, not leading an illegal country.

Jack, thanks for the wonderful comment but you have a valuid point but its backwards. parts of montenogro have and always be illyrian land, macedonia parts of it 30%were illyrians. Serbia never existed till the 12 century.So why we just don't settle the origanal borders"kosova e kuqe"since you say this belongs to him or her. laws change treaties are renewed but serbian authority has vanquished read about the true history of the area serbs never existed in the balkansa they are from russia

No way, this is not acceptable for Albanians!!!!!!!

May I point out that earlier versions of this story spoke of (obviously mistakenly) a confederation between Serbia and Albania. This has now been changed, thank goodness!!

But the fact remains that this solution smacks of desperation, and while I applaud some new ideas being put into the mix this is clearly not the right one! Regardless of what happens now, it opens the way to independence in the future and is just a[nother] stalling tactic.

Dear Kate,

Thank you for pointing out to the mistake in the original article.

We apologize to you and all our visitors and once again thank you all for your contribution and patience

B92

bganon: "However, lets not forget the probable target of this plan - European countries that dont necessarily support independence that want a compromise."

I think that's a good point.
But at the end of the day they are still violating territorial integrity if it is not agreed to by Serbia. And this is one of the main sticking points within Europe.

It would be very shortsighted, not to mention patronising, to expect anyone not to think that it would certainly lead to independence. And this would still become a dangerous precedent for other nations.

(P.S. Were you being ironic about Javier Solana's abilities?!)

Olf - I don't really care if my comments are 'of concern' to you. I am entitled to them. I find your attitude threatening and aggressive.

By the way, it was my taxes which helped pay for the attack on Serbia (which many people were against - were they all Milosevic clones?). Therefore I am certain that I am entitled to my view.

I hope that Europe never falls into the hands of fundamentalists and nationalists. That was what my own grandfather fought against in WWII.

Bganon,
Do not you worry about Vojvodina, Too many worries brings headache. Serbia has smart polititians that have more grey matter than you got, obviously,
Valid solution already exists and UN Res. 1244 approves it. Another solution exists too but only within the existing one.
I do not think that will be problem with Albanians in the future. Albanians that accept Serbia as its own country will have all rights as any other Serbian background citizen. Criminal elements will have problems with strong Serbian army and police. Citizens of Serbian origin and other nationality refuges will return to their home at the province. Albanian nationals that come from Albania illegally and with no documentation that are Serbian citizens will be escorted back to country where they illegally come from.
Every country has mechanisms used in order to establish and maintenance law and order, so Serbia did. Constitution, low and order have to be respected in Kosovo and Metohija as it is in proper Serbia and Vojvodina.

Well, well, well. It's a rare thing to find an article with nearly 40 comments on it already in the morning. Too bad about 30 of them are empty boasts and the tired and repetitive nationalist assertions graffitied all over this site every day. The prospect of confederation should not take place between Serbia and Kosovo, but WITHIN Kosovo itself. Albanians have no right to control land that is clearly Serb held, or hold significant value for the Serbs, be it cultural, religious, or historical. Most of the Pro-Albanian posters today are giving the "all or nothing" argument for Kosovo when they only control about 85% of the region, and even then, will be shackled to the EU. No, no, we're going about this all wrong. If Kosovo is to be given independence, let it have its independence, but divide Kosovo up along Albanian and Serb confederate lines. By making it a confederation with Serbia, Albanians somehow get all of Kosovo, which is unfair and unrealistic. The Serbs control what they currently control, and the Albanians retain what they currently retain.

The truth regarding events in Kosovo prior to intervention;
1. There was no genocide by state be that actual or planned.
2. The KLA terrorists were attacking and killing police, judicial oficials and civilians of all ethnicities.
3. The state reacted to terrorism and yes as the US terms it in their conflict zones "collateral damage" did occur but in the 2/3 years of the Serbian States attempt to quell the terrorist KLA insurgency it is accepted that;
"The death toll in Kosovo was in the hundreds before the start of the bombing campaign. It was around 5,000 by the end. Not quite the "genocide" that some people claimed, incidentally, but not a good precedent either.

I was working at Amnesty International during the Kosovo crisis. I first visited refugee camps in Albania and Macedonia during the conflict and then spent a year in Pristina seconded into the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. Tony Blair says that we "reversed ethnic cleansing" there, but I would not count the expulsion of over 100,000 Serbs and Roma from a province guarded by 40,000 Nato troops as a success."
- Conor Foley (research fellow at the Human Rights Law Centre at the University of Nottingham)
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/take_two/2007/04/oliver_kamm_v_conor_foley.html

4. Resolution 1244 was formulated signed and agreed by the UN SC (including US, UK & France) on 10th June 1999 to bring an end to conflict and peace. This reaffirms Serbia's Sovereignity and without a new resolution it cannot be rescinded hence the new talks!

Truth is Serbia is a soverign state and all it's citizens are Serbian the sooner this reality sinks in the sooner reconciliation and economic development of its Southern province can begin. The EU will be the pivot of the Troika and given that it's foundations are about bringing epoples together and pulling down walls it is highly unlikely to force and impose the creation of an artificial entity of a 2nd Albanian state out of a portion of Serbia's province. The US have been told that the EU will not follow Illegal and unilateral methods which attempt to by-pass and undermine the UN - the US bluff has been called hence the new talks and in the months ahead there will be another reason for allowing them to continue to a win-win solution that is agreeable to all.

Olf - anyone who thinks Serbia "lost four wars" isn't worth listening to.

adriano, Serbia is the same size now as it was in 1945 and 1991. And Hungarians make up only 15% of Vojvodina's population. Plus advocating a province's independence when no one actually there is campaigning for it is rather amusing!

Ulitmately the problem for the independence supporters of Kosovo (USA et al) isn't that Russia and Serbia won't agree to it, but that they themselves agreed back in 1999 that it should remain part of Serbia with the 1244 resolution.

A confederation? With the right of holding a referendum on independance after a fixed period?
What is this, a joke? They are trying to pull off the 'Serbia-Montenegro'-fake-confederation-scam for a second time?
So in the end the Albanians can run off with ALL of Kosovo?

Personally I would prefer that things had gone different in the past. But given the current situation, the amount of Albanians vs. Serbs etc, the ONLY stable, viable, long-term solution is partition.
It will hurt us, but at least we will not forever be burdened with 2+ million Albanians that want nothing to do with Serbia (and vice versa).

Dear B92 - No problem. Easy mistake. The US, half of the EU and many contributors on this site are always confusing Kosovo with Albania!! Someone there just got temporarily indoctrinated.

I am just waiting for the story about the latest idea for solving this issue: to merge all of the Balkans into one large land mass and call it the 'Bushman Empire' [sponsored by KFC and administered by some old guy with an unpronouncable name who can't stay awake through meetings].

Kate, well I think we should all remember that the state union was above all Solana's baby and his failure.

But as you say on the issue its pretty obvious what would follow.

I dont like to dwell on gloomy scenarios or sabre rattle but another worrying issue will be Vojvodina. Vojvodina like Kosovo, is currently a province of Serbia. If provinces have the right to become republics and following that the right to secede Vojvodina will follow suit. Not that Vojvodina suffers from the flag waving nationalism that other former Yug republics did (including Kosovo) but the fact is Vojvodina's politicians will be able to make a lot more money and have a lot more power than they do today. For that reason they would likely follow suit.

Still, I think that Serbia has to be constructive and consider this proposal. Whatever happens from a Serbian perspective its important that Serbia doesnt come out of these new negotiations looking like the problem rather than the solution.

I also think its important for Serbia to talk about and represent all of Kosovo's minorities, to talk about human rights and people rather than land.

On the other hand realistically the situation on the ground speaks for itself. Serbia must be ready to offer great compromises and have an imaginative solution.

Sounds impossible. Well if there is a solution to Northern Ireland there is also a solution for Kosovo.

Olf,

You’re a fairly clear writer with generally strong arguments, so I see no reason why you would need to constantly distort reality so much.

First off, I lived in both Serbia and Bosnia and my wife was born and raised in Krajina. So I happen to know the local population very well.

OK, point one
“You disagreed with the attacks of NATO, what makes me believe that you supported Milosevic”

Incorrect, remember the massive student demonstrations against the NATO bombing? Those brave kids with their silly Target Signs? They all hated Milosevic, but came out in the streets to loudly protest the NATO bombing. Yeah, the same people whose protests drove Milosevic out of office.

“Serbs are aware that Kosovo is lost except housewives pensioner”

Olf, that is the only sector of Serbian society that supports WAR to retain Kosovo. That’s very different then what you are saying. The fact is nearly 50% of the Serbian population would NOT trade Kosovo for EU membership and 40% support breaking off ties with countries that recognize Kosovo. While that’s not picking up a gun, its certainly pretty tough sacrifices for something they believe in and has strong support.

“if you read any Serbian please go to B92 in Serbian to find out what do the Serbs living in Serbia and Kosova think of your proposals.”

Olf, this is really a completely nonsensical argument. While I greatly respect B92 and freedom of speech, its incorrect to assume that posters on their site represent the average Serb. First and foremost, anyone commenting on B92 would have to have access to a computer. That means only the younger more affluent generation. In addition, in Serbia B92 is considered rather extremely liberal. Many average Serbs consider B92 to be traitors. Its like going to some far left Libertarian Website in the US and claiming they represent everyone in the US.

While the vast majority of my friends in Belgrade were of the Student Optor type, I did in fact speak with all sectors of Serbian society and the reality is those who post on B92 represent a small minority of mostly affluent student liberal types predominantly from Belgrade. If you can find any posts from your average farmer type, I’d love to see it.

Olf, stick to logic and sound arguments in your comments and you’ll speak from a position of strength. When you deliberately misrepresent reality as you do, it only hurts the strong points you make.

"Kosovo would have the same status as Serbia." That is another way of saying Kosovo will be independent. How many more times will the pro-independence camp try trickery before they realize the Serbs/Russians are not so naive?

THE problem of the Balkans is precisely the type of thinking which insist some kind of joint ethnic collective. (Yeah the Borg if you like)

Its ridiculous to suggest that one person can represent the whole view of their ethnic group. It reminds me of those ridiculous t-shirts and graffiti that used to be common in Belgrade 'Every Serb is Radovan'. I hear similar t-shirts are available in Croatia for Gotovina. These idiots wont wear T-shirts with Tesla and consider their people scientists. Oh no, they consider their people murderers. The majority of Serbian, Croatian, Albanian etc people certainly are not murderers. Rather, these supposed war hero worshippers are scum and want to implicate the rest of us.

We are all individuals with minds of our own. And if we support our 'tribe' without even considering an issue it shows how mindless we are.

It is precisely this screwed up thinking that enabled people in the Balkans to ignore the humanity of those that didnt belong to 'our' ethnic group. In other words part of the old mind-set, part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Thus Nick and Olf (whose list I was omitted from) explain who I represent exactly.

Damn right, I represent myself, rather than being somebody elses monkey, so should you.

International equity 'Serbia has got smart politicians'.
Hmm, run that by me again. Are you sure? Likewise, I'm wondering about your own (lack) of grey matter from this statement and your fantasy scenario following.

Message to those that supported NATO bombardment. Did it make you proud that an action you supported killed civilians as well?

Lets have a little more humanity people.

Kate,

Hightly unlikely, in fact i am apsolutely certain most of the Albanian commenters here are working people :)

Ariold: if you REALLY believe to be a "native race" of europe - than you can´t be helped. diagnosis: incurable!


Olf: your misleading tactics are quite weak actually.
B92 in serbian language is a pool of those Serbs, who want to get rid of you, and they ( a rather small number in comparison to the rest of Serbia ) prefer the easier way.
that´s all. but presenting them to be the majority is just your wishful thinking!

and there is no need for such a nonsense like a confederation, why should a minority within Serbia get the same rights like the majority??? broad autonomy is enough to rule yourself, you don´t need more to live in peace ( if you are capable of that at all ) and to prove that you can earn your own living through your own hands work.

confederation is only a media-hoax. not more.

There is no point in RE-INVENTING the wheel. Laws regarding ethnic minorities already exist. The same law that apply to all other countries should be applied to Serbia as well. War existed before 1999 and there are many countries at war today (USA included this time). Same laws and principals must be applied to ALL. Serbs are ONLY asking to be treated like anybody else. Nothing MORE, nothing LESS. We WILL fight for our rights, and do not attack us for defending our God given rights.

(Nick, 31. July 2007 16:17

KLA-Kosovo Liberation Army
NC-No Comment
IX-Conservative Serb
UCK-Conservative Albanian
YU-Liberal Serb
AB-Liberal Albanian

Pro-Serb:

raso- IX
kate- IX
Princip, UK -YU
Jack -YU
taras -IX
International Equity -IX

Pro-Albanian:

Ahmet Isufi -KLA
Pandeli -KLA
James Wattsson-KLA
Dino -KLA
Nick -AB
Tex willer -KLA
village-bey -KLA
Sirus Black -KLA
Bandil -KLA
Olf -KLA,UCK.
Victor-baby bottle-
adriano -KLA
Ariold -KLA
Mikel-KLA
Sirus Black-KLA
(Nick, 31. July 2007 16:17

You can't come up with a negotiated settlement when AGIM Ceku is from the Kosovo Liberation Army and also with the UCK.

Very funny-Serbs knows what federation means. Wonder how many more tricks US has up its sleaves. It is not so easy to grab someones land. If i let someone in my house as frendly gesture and that person starts distroying my house and demands deed on my hose because they happen to have 10 more relatives in house then i have-am i sepose to submit? Nonsence! All these remarks about what serbs had done to albaniens is getting old. Most of it was your propaganda in order to bring in "Uncle Sam" to steel what belongs to someone else.

You know that you have a good
deal when both sides leave the table unhappy.

Nick
What about me?
CCCC

Nick - that was one of the most ridiculous comments I've read on here, and I've read plenty. Bye the way, you forgot me on your list. I think most Serbs are too busy working, or playing sports, or having fun. Furthermore, we have our land and our country, own it legally, and there is nothing you can do about that.

Laki, I can provide you with at a hundred links where people do not believe that NATO bombed for humanitarian reasons. And they show proof. So please, you are not the world's spokesman. Just speak for yourself.

Nick i read your comment about the pro albainan and pro serb camp and those who are serb have never been to Kosovo. Sir do you live there now? Alot of people who comment have never been to Kosovo and even the pro albanian side don't even live there but in either Canada, Western Europe or the US. I think sir alot those who claim to be there have never been. Yes M.Miller lives there because i have spoke to him serveral times going through the gates at Camp Bondsteel. You did not put him in the Pro Albanian Camp need to correct that Nick. Now for the others i am not sure but M.Miller i know he lives there.

To Nick & his "list" - who cares. Are you listing these "pro-albanian" posters for a reason other than "publicity"?

Secondly, I'm a bit disappointed in laki, NY's comment.

When is everyone just going to come to the realization the obvious - albanians don't mesh with Serbs; Serbs don't mesh with albanians. albanians who reside in KosovO don't want to be called Serbians, pay taxes or give back property/make restitution for damages they've cause -

The solution is simple - all of the invaders should go back to albania & then the UN/EU/US can pay for a wall to be erected just like Israel did.

Keep it simple

This has to be the worst case of International Policy ever implemented!
How can Nato have one set of rules for one country and different for other!!
It's a great example to set to the rest of the world.
Why does UN even exist, why do all these countries waste money on such redicilous plans, policies and resolutions? Give up! It's too hard!
Europe has to start setting ultimatums and stop playing the political correctness.
Why push ideas of redicilous countries that will never work (i.e. BIH and Confederation). All this is doing is creating another Isreal Vs Palestine. North Kosovo to Serbia, the rest to Albania and no countries in-between. In fact while your at it chop up Bosnia (there is no future in this type of federation) Half/Half and some of Sandjak can go with Kosovo or Bosnia (who ever wants it or where ever it wants to be)
The people in the Balkans are so pumped up with rage over the past 600 years that you realy do need defined borders to keep them at peace and the only way either side will give up anything is if they get something in return. Serbian Republic for Kosovo

First of all, thanx to Konstatin Gregorevic for putting me as a KLA member. I remember serb police comming up with the same lists of normal people in Kosovo after hunting and killing them. "It was a KLA terrorist", was the justification for everything. Congratulations constantin. But for your information and of those who have their mouth full of "KLA terrorists", KLA was the whole Kosovo. It was the hope of our people, it was all of us, and you cant decide the whole people is terrorist. As for me, I didnt happen but, damn I wish I was a member of KLA and fight for the freedom of my country from a state which first invades you, and later says: oh, but you are just a minority on my WHOLE territory and population. How can you pretend for freedom? This is an answer also for the following post:

"and there is no need for such a nonsense like a confederation, why should a minority within Serbia get the same rights like the majority??? broad autonomy is enough to rule yourself, you don´t need more to live in peace ( if you are capable of that at all ) and to prove that you can earn your own living through your own hands work.
(Jovan, 31. July 2007 20:50)


Another thing: I see here posters getting worried about the NATO bombing campaign of the state of Serbia. Why not being worried about ALMOST 10.000 victims of your guys on my country, which were by the way the REASON of NATO bombing campaign? Why not getting worried about 1 million expulsed albanians? Kosovo will become independent wish it or not. There is no, I repeat, NO WAY, serbs can convince 2 million albanians which they abused since 1913, to share the same roof with them. Everything else, including this flood of proserbian words and cries in this forum, is vain.