“Macedonia will not kneel before Serbian gov’t”

Vuk, Canadien et al; Regardless of Gruevski's comments, we know that SPC has historically been for the negation and elimination of the MPC. There has been no recognition of the Macedonian reality in the Balkans, an attempt to highjack (read Serbian, Greek controlled "Ohrid Archbishopric") in place of the Macedonian Orthodox Church, the newly autocephalus church of the Macedonian nation, state and people and not a peep of support from Serbia for Macedonia in our battle for our historic name against Greece's endless efforts to wipe us as a people from the face of the earth!! But I guess for you your "darkest hour" is far more important than ours. Finally, Macedonia, officially, is for a UNSC resolution re: Kosovo! All else is Albanian speculation, trying to play Macedonians off against Serbs. I'm surprised so many Serbs fell for their ploy!

Yeah, this shows how "democratic" the new serbian governemtn is. This also shows the true face of the orthodox serbian church. The serbs cant even be tolerant towards the macedonians who share the same religion and ethnicity-slavs, imagine what would the serbs do in their first chance they would get against albanians........
This is one more reason that albanians do not want to stay under serbian government.
I hope that people little by little understand what kind of governemtn Serbia has.

Orthodox church vs. Orthodox church. Very odd, I would like to see the outcome of this tug of war between same faith. At least thios time Serbs cannot claim they are fighting the spread of islam in Europe.

serbia has done it again thinking that they are superior to everybodylese around here in Balkans.
Are we talking about religious conflict here and speaking of same religion. I guess orthodox vs. muslim has nothing to do in this part of the world only is used as an excuse for political gains and that is more of personal gains rather than having the interest of the people you represent. I love to se some coments on this issue from Prinbcip, Kate, Jovan ,Sovoj gaza and other s that their last name end with viq,

Gruevski is such an amateur. You stab the Serbs in the back by offering to recognize Kosovo and you want favors from the Serbs ?

Settle your disputes - you are all brothers in the Orthodox Christian church.

Or shall we compare you to the branches of Islam in Iraq (Sunni, Shiite, Sufi, Wahhabi, etc) who fight amongst themselves?

The Macdonian Government had better realize that this has very little to do with the Serbian church and everything with the Serbian government and this is just a sample of what kind of revelations Macedonia can expect with Serbia should they support an illegal unilateral declaration of independence in Kosovo. What the Macedonians need to realize is that Serbia does not depend on them as much as the Macedonians depend on Serbia and especially Russia. Time for a reality check and to get every one's priorities straight.

Monastiries are not property of Serbian government, but property of Serbian Orthodox Church. Macedonians as members of this Church have absolute right to visit any monastiry in Serbia. Another issue is if Macedonian authorities are willing to glorify comunists activities during World War II, in the monastiry. It disturbes ordinary life of the monks. (Imagine if your neighbour wants to celebrate anniversary in your appartment, while you study for the exam).
Furthermore it involves Church in politics. In Serbia, of course, it is not wellcomed.
Honestly I see this as provoking from Macedonian side. Finaly, statement of Macedonian PM is not appropriate to the responsible Balkan politician.

As you see, the serbs are not being tolerant even towards the macedonians who are of the same origin and religion as serbs...
Imagine how the serbs would be against the albanians... Oh there is no need to imagine, it was seen in the 1990-1999's in reality.
This is one more reason why Kosova is becoming independent because letting someone live under the government of Serbia is unacceptable.
By the way, i posted a comment to this topic before but it looks like the editor didnt like it to be posted even that there was nothing wrong with it.
Hope this one would get posted.
Thanks

Dimitar, you are absolutely right. But obviously communist idea of Great Albania is deeply destroying relatons between Serbs and Macedonians, even this is much smaller problem than with Greeks. For instance, Serbs do not have anything against the name of the country. Greeks do. But still, Macedonians (Greek=FYROM-ians) are rather committed to the Greeks than to the Serbs.
Complicated but truth. It is targeted to GA as well!
Great to be FYROMIAN!

Correction, Macedonia govt is only comitted to its population whom wishes to commit to EU and NATO, not Greece, Serbia or even Kosovo.

Macedonia wishes to distance itself from neighbouring nationalists and prosper as a democratic state.

These comments were made by the PM only after Serbia's FM visited Skopje threatening actions for recognising Kosovo's independance! What sort of peace minded modern-era state does such a thing?

It's obvious Serbia will be singled out by EU and the US on this one!

To clarify, presently Macedonia's more dependant on EU member states.

Clearly the Macedonians wish to show their true faces as this, the most testing time arrives for Serbia.
Macedonians if one can even be historically correct in calling them that are showing the Serbs that they are much more interested in friendship with Albania and NATO.
So much for Skopje being the capital of the Serbian empire and Macedonians being Serb brothers.

Soon the Serbian state delegation will ask the same permittion from theit Kosovan counterparts, but they will be given it, no doubt

Dear Afrim,

Often, as is the case here, the volume of comments we receive is the only reason why some of them are queued and posted later.

We thank all our posters for their patience and contribution.

B92

Ahmet, I do not know any Serbians who's last name ends in viq but, I do know many that end in vic. You are on an English version of B92, not an Albanian version. Is this just your petty way of saying, "I will be a rebel and use Albanian spelling". Whatever..................Kosovo, despite the bill of goods that we were sold , was not about humanitarian concerns. War never is. It was about oil :

"In 1997, BP and Halliburton (headed at the time by Dick Cheney) proposed the Trans-Balkan pipeline (TBP) that would provide another export route for Caspian oil via tanker to the Bulgarian Black Sea coast and through Skopje in Macedonia to Vlore, a port in Albania. Two years later, U.S. forces in southeast Kosovo began construction of Camp Bondsteel- which has become the largest new military base since the Vietnam War. In December 2002, ExxonMobil and Chevron Texaco both announced they were considering participation in the Trans-Balkan pipeline." This is the only church capitalists believe in. They are now enjoying the little battles in the Balkans - it is only to their benefit.

Hmmm, This is not a simple issue. In fact, the Macedonians have been requesting access to their Monastery (which now happens to be in Serbian territory) for the past several years. The Serbian Govt has never granted access. I would imagine the Macedonians are a bit upset. I am no politician, however, if I was Serbian, I would run to the Macedonians with open hands and grant them access anywhere. This would bring Macedonia on board for the Kosovo issue. With the latest refusal, the Macedonians are even more upset than usual, and guess what'll be the first country to recognize Kosovo!
Just when I thought the Serbians will do a correct move, dissapoint once again. You almost remind me of the Bulgarians.

To Dimitri Macedonians are not part of the Serbian Church and never have been but that is what greeks hope for. It will never happen. its never has and never will

The Macedonian PM is within his rights to respond the way he did. Why wouldnt he? He is a true leader not amature, the Serbs are playing primary school games thats what I call amature. The sooner the serbian church stops being a puppet of the greek church the better the region will be - especially Macedonian - Serbian relations. The serbs want support in Kosovo but their corrupt self centred greek worshiping church calls the MACEDONIAN church Serbian? Hypocrisy at its finest but life has a funny way..

You would think the Serbian government or the Serbian Church or some responsible party in Serbia could get its act together and reply to the request of a neighbouring state. How pathetic. Is there anyone in that Serbs know how to get along with?

My advice to Macedonians is learn to live and prosper with the Albanians and move away from the Serbs. The Serbian nation is still going backwards.

The macedonian orthodox church does have a right too be recognised,the macedonian orthodox church has been existing before the serbian orthodox church,as for the greeks they know very good that macedonia was not greek,though this truth will come out one day ,as for kosovo macedonians have nothing too do with kosovo,kosovo is between serbia and albania not with macedonia,the macedonians only want peace nothing else!

Here we are talking about having celebration in the Monastery. Every civilased organization will allow it. But Serbian Church, obviously is NOT that.

The Macedonian Orthodox church is not recognized as a canonical Eastern Orthodox church by ANY Eastern Orthodox church in the world.
Opinions should be based on factual information. Those of you who use this issue to bash the Serbs and/or the Serbian Orthodox church show your ignorance and lack of objectivity.
http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=579

MACEDONIANS are pure orthadox in religion, so are the SERBS, but the SERBS are trying to destroy the MACEDONIANS with their GREEK mates. Why are the SERBS helping the GREEKS to destroy the MACEDONIAN religion? Becouse the SERBS think that the GREEKS are pure orthodox and the MACEDONIAN are a mixture of everyone. Well the GREEKS celibrate orthodox easter by the old calender and chrismas by the new calender, that does not make them pure.

Maybe this is old news, but things like this just make my skin crawl.

How sad to see brother against brother in thid day and age when we should all be together.

We are the ones tearing each other apart. I hope that everyone will one day see that "united we stand, divided we fall"..as we have already.

It is a shame that I....from Skopje, need a passport to go to my own cousins wedding.

The church is the first place that should unite us....not divide and counqer us.

No one is superior over the other one. We are, were and always will be the same. It is just bitter hate that divides us.

Shame on everyone.

Dear Editor, I sent already two comments in this and for some reason that you only know were not published.
I went back on and checked what i wrote and i saw nothing bad or even closed to as bad as some serb writers post in here.
I understand that after all your a serb and the truth hurts, but since you accepted the role of the moderator then you should be somehow or somewhat more fair than you are.
Thank you for your fairness.

"The Macedonian Orthodox church is not recognized as a canonical Eastern Orthodox church by ANY Eastern Orthodox church in the world."

And the canonically-recognized Jovan has, what, 100 followers? The days of forcing people to do things against their will is over. If you want to get along and enter a modern world, now's your chance. If you Serbs want to keep playing these same old games then go ahead and continue the course ... and then maybe after your country shrinks even more you will finally learn.

Dear Editor, I sent already two comments in this and for some reason that you only know were not published.
I went back on and checked what i wrote and i saw nothing bad or even closed to as bad as some serb writers post in here.
I understand that after all your a serb and the truth hurts, but since you accepted the role of the moderator then you should be somehow or somewhat more fair than you are.
Thank you for your fairness.

serbia has done it again thinking that they are superior to everybodylese around here in Balkans.
Are we talking about religious conflict here and speaking of same religion. I guess orthodox vs. muslim has nothing to do in this part of the world only is used as an excuse for political gains and that is more of personal gains rather than having the interest of the people you represent. I love to se some coments on this issue from Prinbcip, Kate, Jovan ,Sovoj gaza and other s that their last name end with viq,

Clearly the Macedonians wish to show their true faces as this, the most testing time arrives for Serbia.
Macedonians if one can even be historically correct in calling them that are showing the Serbs that they are much more interested in friendship with Albania and NATO.
So much for Skopje being the capital of the Serbian empire and Macedonians being Serb brothers.

As you see, the serbs are not being tolerant even towards the macedonians who are of the same origin and religion as serbs...
Imagine how the serbs would be against the albanians... Oh there is no need to imagine, it was seen in the 1990-1999's in reality.
This is one more reason why Kosova is becoming independent because letting someone live under the government of Serbia is unacceptable.
By the way, i posted a comment to this topic before but it looks like the editor didnt like it to be posted even that there was nothing wrong with it.
Hope this one would get posted.
Thanks

Gruevski is such an amateur. You stab the Serbs in the back by offering to recognize Kosovo and you want favors from the Serbs ?

Monastiries are not property of Serbian government, but property of Serbian Orthodox Church. Macedonians as members of this Church have absolute right to visit any monastiry in Serbia. Another issue is if Macedonian authorities are willing to glorify comunists activities during World War II, in the monastiry. It disturbes ordinary life of the monks. (Imagine if your neighbour wants to celebrate anniversary in your appartment, while you study for the exam).
Furthermore it involves Church in politics. In Serbia, of course, it is not wellcomed.
Honestly I see this as provoking from Macedonian side. Finaly, statement of Macedonian PM is not appropriate to the responsible Balkan politician.

Orthodox church vs. Orthodox church. Very odd, I would like to see the outcome of this tug of war between same faith. At least thios time Serbs cannot claim they are fighting the spread of islam in Europe.

Dear Afrim,

Often, as is the case here, the volume of comments we receive is the only reason why some of them are queued and posted later.

We thank all our posters for their patience and contribution.

B92

Dimitar, you are absolutely right. But obviously communist idea of Great Albania is deeply destroying relatons between Serbs and Macedonians, even this is much smaller problem than with Greeks. For instance, Serbs do not have anything against the name of the country. Greeks do. But still, Macedonians (Greek=FYROM-ians) are rather committed to the Greeks than to the Serbs.
Complicated but truth. It is targeted to GA as well!
Great to be FYROMIAN!

Ahmet, I do not know any Serbians who's last name ends in viq but, I do know many that end in vic. You are on an English version of B92, not an Albanian version. Is this just your petty way of saying, "I will be a rebel and use Albanian spelling". Whatever..................Kosovo, despite the bill of goods that we were sold , was not about humanitarian concerns. War never is. It was about oil :

"In 1997, BP and Halliburton (headed at the time by Dick Cheney) proposed the Trans-Balkan pipeline (TBP) that would provide another export route for Caspian oil via tanker to the Bulgarian Black Sea coast and through Skopje in Macedonia to Vlore, a port in Albania. Two years later, U.S. forces in southeast Kosovo began construction of Camp Bondsteel- which has become the largest new military base since the Vietnam War. In December 2002, ExxonMobil and Chevron Texaco both announced they were considering participation in the Trans-Balkan pipeline." This is the only church capitalists believe in. They are now enjoying the little battles in the Balkans - it is only to their benefit.

Yeah, this shows how "democratic" the new serbian governemtn is. This also shows the true face of the orthodox serbian church. The serbs cant even be tolerant towards the macedonians who share the same religion and ethnicity-slavs, imagine what would the serbs do in their first chance they would get against albanians........
This is one more reason that albanians do not want to stay under serbian government.
I hope that people little by little understand what kind of governemtn Serbia has.

Settle your disputes - you are all brothers in the Orthodox Christian church.

Or shall we compare you to the branches of Islam in Iraq (Sunni, Shiite, Sufi, Wahhabi, etc) who fight amongst themselves?

Soon the Serbian state delegation will ask the same permittion from theit Kosovan counterparts, but they will be given it, no doubt

The Macdonian Government had better realize that this has very little to do with the Serbian church and everything with the Serbian government and this is just a sample of what kind of revelations Macedonia can expect with Serbia should they support an illegal unilateral declaration of independence in Kosovo. What the Macedonians need to realize is that Serbia does not depend on them as much as the Macedonians depend on Serbia and especially Russia. Time for a reality check and to get every one's priorities straight.

Vuk, Canadien et al; Regardless of Gruevski's comments, we know that SPC has historically been for the negation and elimination of the MPC. There has been no recognition of the Macedonian reality in the Balkans, an attempt to highjack (read Serbian, Greek controlled "Ohrid Archbishopric") in place of the Macedonian Orthodox Church, the newly autocephalus church of the Macedonian nation, state and people and not a peep of support from Serbia for Macedonia in our battle for our historic name against Greece's endless efforts to wipe us as a people from the face of the earth!! But I guess for you your "darkest hour" is far more important than ours. Finally, Macedonia, officially, is for a UNSC resolution re: Kosovo! All else is Albanian speculation, trying to play Macedonians off against Serbs. I'm surprised so many Serbs fell for their ploy!

Hmmm, This is not a simple issue. In fact, the Macedonians have been requesting access to their Monastery (which now happens to be in Serbian territory) for the past several years. The Serbian Govt has never granted access. I would imagine the Macedonians are a bit upset. I am no politician, however, if I was Serbian, I would run to the Macedonians with open hands and grant them access anywhere. This would bring Macedonia on board for the Kosovo issue. With the latest refusal, the Macedonians are even more upset than usual, and guess what'll be the first country to recognize Kosovo!
Just when I thought the Serbians will do a correct move, dissapoint once again. You almost remind me of the Bulgarians.

To Dimitri Macedonians are not part of the Serbian Church and never have been but that is what greeks hope for. It will never happen. its never has and never will

The Macedonian PM is within his rights to respond the way he did. Why wouldnt he? He is a true leader not amature, the Serbs are playing primary school games thats what I call amature. The sooner the serbian church stops being a puppet of the greek church the better the region will be - especially Macedonian - Serbian relations. The serbs want support in Kosovo but their corrupt self centred greek worshiping church calls the MACEDONIAN church Serbian? Hypocrisy at its finest but life has a funny way..

Correction, Macedonia govt is only comitted to its population whom wishes to commit to EU and NATO, not Greece, Serbia or even Kosovo.

Macedonia wishes to distance itself from neighbouring nationalists and prosper as a democratic state.

These comments were made by the PM only after Serbia's FM visited Skopje threatening actions for recognising Kosovo's independance! What sort of peace minded modern-era state does such a thing?

It's obvious Serbia will be singled out by EU and the US on this one!

To clarify, presently Macedonia's more dependant on EU member states.

You would think the Serbian government or the Serbian Church or some responsible party in Serbia could get its act together and reply to the request of a neighbouring state. How pathetic. Is there anyone in that Serbs know how to get along with?

My advice to Macedonians is learn to live and prosper with the Albanians and move away from the Serbs. The Serbian nation is still going backwards.

The macedonian orthodox church does have a right too be recognised,the macedonian orthodox church has been existing before the serbian orthodox church,as for the greeks they know very good that macedonia was not greek,though this truth will come out one day ,as for kosovo macedonians have nothing too do with kosovo,kosovo is between serbia and albania not with macedonia,the macedonians only want peace nothing else!

Here we are talking about having celebration in the Monastery. Every civilased organization will allow it. But Serbian Church, obviously is NOT that.

The Macedonian Orthodox church is not recognized as a canonical Eastern Orthodox church by ANY Eastern Orthodox church in the world.
Opinions should be based on factual information. Those of you who use this issue to bash the Serbs and/or the Serbian Orthodox church show your ignorance and lack of objectivity.
http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=579

MACEDONIANS are pure orthadox in religion, so are the SERBS, but the SERBS are trying to destroy the MACEDONIANS with their GREEK mates. Why are the SERBS helping the GREEKS to destroy the MACEDONIAN religion? Becouse the SERBS think that the GREEKS are pure orthodox and the MACEDONIAN are a mixture of everyone. Well the GREEKS celibrate orthodox easter by the old calender and chrismas by the new calender, that does not make them pure.

Maybe this is old news, but things like this just make my skin crawl.

How sad to see brother against brother in thid day and age when we should all be together.

We are the ones tearing each other apart. I hope that everyone will one day see that "united we stand, divided we fall"..as we have already.

It is a shame that I....from Skopje, need a passport to go to my own cousins wedding.

The church is the first place that should unite us....not divide and counqer us.

No one is superior over the other one. We are, were and always will be the same. It is just bitter hate that divides us.

Shame on everyone.

"The Macedonian Orthodox church is not recognized as a canonical Eastern Orthodox church by ANY Eastern Orthodox church in the world."

And the canonically-recognized Jovan has, what, 100 followers? The days of forcing people to do things against their will is over. If you want to get along and enter a modern world, now's your chance. If you Serbs want to keep playing these same old games then go ahead and continue the course ... and then maybe after your country shrinks even more you will finally learn.