4% of the Serbian army was destroyed in the 1999 war with NATO, this according to JANE'S Military facts on the internet. JANES is the word military fact authority and also an American company. You might do well to visit their web site some time. The Americans spent Billions of dollars in bombing without reasonable results, then they spent millions of dollars repairing the damage to civilian infrastructure. And all this resulted in resolution 1244! Had they won, Kosovo would have been independent after the war and we wouldn't have this situation today... The Americans lost that war or at best call it a draw. Get your facts stright first!
lily
58% unemployment rate? Whever do you get your sources from not even with Kosovos 80% unemployment included into the stats do we get anywhere near 58%.
Hmmmm....
We lost 5% of our military while it costed NATO 100s of billions of dollars. In the end they even signed a treaty that confirms that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia. Clear Serbian victory and alban and NATO loss.
A $200,000 laser guided bomb incinerating an inflatable tank? Serbian army withdrawing with 95% of its military machine after 78 days of intense criminal air strikes? Yeah… I would call that a win. Wouldn’t you? I can’t believe how many Albania revisionists leave their comments here.
NATO from the air and KLA on the ground brought serb military machinery to dire situation and all they had left is to put their tail between their legs and run to belgrade=78 days that you are talking about, and you still think you were victorious, this is unbalivable.
Jovan I agree with you once again. Big brother reminds leaders(this time K-Albanian)that there are some rules that ought to follow. Ceku has done nothing more or less than any other politician that declares that pensions will rise or Serbian soldiers will never leave Kosova . So politicians declarations should be taken as declarations that can change according to the wind direction.
PB
Great article.
Those demonstration were for better living conditions in dormitories Declarations were/are not in touch with the reality
PB that was the Beginning of the End for SFRJ. You can probably see how it all started. Ljubicic declares genocide already to its inhabitants..
Decline in number of Serbs living in Kosova was not because of any applied pressure by K-Albanians but because of the economic reasons and high mortality.
why is every one is been mean to ahmet isufi, my friend stop westing your time in this debate,I read these coments every day why is so much hate and rac.
I hope one day you guys start talking about futere and respect each other russia or america don't give dam about us serbs or albanian peace.
You're right in that B92 should be admonished by the US & the West...It should be for letting nonsense such as your post to get past the cutting room floor. You addressed absolutely nothing specifically (this is becoming more the rule rather than the exception for K-Albanian supporters), and made ambiguous accusations about a conspiracy between B92 w/ the Belgrade regime, which holds no power according to K-Albanians. Make up your minds, is Belgrade or isn't it impotent? Next...
Serbia has its police on strike, much of its forests on fire, 58% unemployment and your politicians have the guts to spend the people's hard earned taxes on making empty threats to the EU US and nations willing to recognize Kosova independence? Kostunica and co. should all resign for failure to stimulate the economy, create jobs and plan for the future of your people. Making threats to other nations only makes your own people tremble with fear...fear of losing jobs..AGAIN!! And more destruction, garbage, and poison in the food chain environment. Haven't the people in the Balkans suffered enough of this? Kostunica...LET MY KOSOVA GO, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!
Who appointed you the world media watchguard? B92 is in part funded by US entities but its majority Serbian owned. I had issues with them during 1999 when they were nothing more then an extended propaganda arm of the USA but since then they have become a reasonable news agency that reports the news mostly accurately. The New York times however is the world's joke in printed media, much like CNN was for TV in the 90's. CNN has since cleaned up their act but the New York times continues to be a joke. Just look at their success compared to the Los Angeles times who is by miles more successful. Anyway it seems to me you have a problem with B92 because they are not engaging in propaganda anymore, for any side! And that's how it should be. Tell me one News Agency in Kosovo that allows a platform like the one B92 gives here for comments by anyone, even people like you.
. . .Jordan K. Bosworth just told on you guys! Now you're gonna get it!
Hopefully this U.S. Information Agency doesn't bomb your office.
As for the Serb apologists. . .how dare you oppose the dismemberment of a sovereign state based on the sound principles of international law and territorial integrity. Shame on you for noting that the basis for Albanian separatist aspirations is grounded in false logic. . .the perceived persecution of the Albanian community when, as a percentage of the population, the Serb community in Kosovo suffered much more than the Albanian including the unrelenting destruction of their christian heritage.
Jordan. . .I promise that we'll make those dastardly Serbs and their cohorts think twice before they offend you, Albanian separatists and certain (pseudo) U.S. agencies!
Hahaha. . .do you want some cheese with that whine? Is that even a real name? Grow up.
If a solution is not found Serbia will never join EU before solving Kosovo case. As what I see, is that both Kosovo and Serbia is loosing which more and which less history will tell. Nor Kosovars nor Serbs in Serbia are happy with the latest development, hence politicians enjoy their armchairs and ordinary people suffer. Well done both side, see how long this will last.
FYI, in the west Serbs and Albanians are working together , i guess they can work in Kosovo and in Serbia if they have work to do. But since there isn't work they deal with nationalism. Nature's law!
Good!!! I hope Washington cuts off funding, let the Russians fund B92, they have more resources. Apparently the "queen of misinformation" (Washington) will not tolerate anyone else usurping their M.O.!
If my country does not correct its foolish policies very soon China will be our largest banker holding the deed to America.The time for unilateral US moves is over and Bush can hardly wait to leave Washington and go to his peaceful Crawford ranch while Europe will be left to deal with Kosovo just as with Cyprus for the next 50 years.
Though many posters here are still fixated on the rights and wrongs of independence, I will focus instead on the political ramifications of the current impasse for Russia and the UN on one side, and the West on the other. This is the topic that is of most prevelance, and I invite other posters to discuss this, because we've done the 'rights and wrongs' discussions of an independent Kosovo to death. Lets concentrate on the topic of the day. Time and world events have simultaneously passed and changed. It's 2007. Shall we please try and catch up with the 21st century on B92 discussions?
The West has consistently made mistakes over Kosovo (a list that can go on forever), has risked superpower confrontations (don't forget the bombing of the Chinese embassy), has effectively painted itself into a corner - largely because it tried to bypass the UN - and is now confused and divided.
One thing is also very clear; a US promoted unilateral declaration of independence, will split the EU, as a number of EU countries have stressed that they will not go against the UN. Publicly, Washington and the EU have advised Agim Ceku to drop any ideas of unilateral declarations. Western splits loom.
The bottom line is, that there is no clear western interest in Kosovo. Western governments did not go to war over genocide or 'Human rights', these were alibis concocted for the press. What is important to consider, is that
* Nato was drifting, needed a new role to justify its own expense, and needed to be tested in battle.
* Nato did not expect meaningful resistance as it had overwhelming military power. A three day war was expected, in which Serbia would capitulate unconditionally.
* Serb resistance, which led to an agreement (after 78 days of bombing) in which NATO had to make many concessions, including recognition of Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo, was a political (and arguably military) defeat for the West, which leads to todays ongoing problems.
We are where we are. It is now a face saving exercise, there is no real interest in Kosovo. Albanian thuggery towards its minorities in the last 8 years has shocked many observers, the goodwill towards them is spent, they are not a popular cause. The Milosevic factor has gone too.
Will the EU risk splits within itself, or the US risk a split with the EU over Kosovo? Why would they?
My own theory, is that the whole point of US missiles in Czech / Poland, of Kosovan independence and such matters, are all US attempts to antagonise Russia, to get her to show teeth and scare the EU back to the American apron, lest the EU start building stronger bridges with Russia than with the US, and further accelerate America's decline.
Neither EU unity, nor EU links with Russia, are in America's interests. If I am right, then the US will indeed encourage Kosovan unilateral independence, and the ensuing political fallout will well suit the US purpose. Europe needs at least to consider, that the USA is playing a cynical game to maintain her own hegemony, at Europe's expense.
Hi BP, I like your link, "Kosovo, an autonomous province of Yugoslavia" NOT SERBIA!!! I did not thank that you are for the Independents of Kosovo. I thank you are doing a great job trying to get Kosovo Independents, But I do not see an Independent Kosova tile next Year. Good luck with your Propaganda Machine!!!
Jordan K. Bosworth
You are ridiculous. Is biased information that which states the truth? Or an opinion? In which case the only truth is that which the US pays for. Whats biased are all the articles that claim that Albanians have 90% of pop in KosovO without mentioning the nearly 300000 reffugee Serbs living outside of Kosovo which NATO has been preventing from going back. That type of news is biased and propaganda. As far as you threatening to pull ur funds. Thats a threat to manipulate news to your liking. Do that with FOX and CNN. B92 report it as it is.
avi wrote:
How can Kosovo be heartland of serbia,I am confused about this,not long ago part of Croatia was heartland of Serbia,before that was a part in Slovenia,than BH,now Kosovo, it seems very complicated guys...
avi you forgot to say that even albania and especially its outlet to the adriatic were strongly claimed as the heart of serbia.
I guess that serbs have more hearts than cows stomachs.
Puppets? This is funny!? Was that meant as an insult? If the Mr Blair can afford to be America's puppet, you're supprised about Ceku??!! Are you maybe suggesting us to ignore Rice's advice? This is Ceku a smart politician we're talking about not some Seselj nutter you've expected.
B92 should be aware that the U.S. Information Agency is fully aware of the bias in reporting on this site. If B92 continues to distort the truth then US funding will be terminated. Apparently pressure from Belgrade is weakening the resolve of B92.
Allowing paid Serb apologists on B92 to attempt to spread misinformation about the future of Kosova/o will not be tolerated by Washington.
Yeah, its really sad that even B92 is loosing its controls lately. In this case, B92 is not telling that Ms. Rice assured the kosovar team that America was strongly supporting Kosova's independence and that it will happen within this year. Also Ms. Rice mentioned the words of G. W. Bush in Tirana where he publicly declared the support for Independence of Kosova.
In the 1990's the serbs were brainwashed by the propaganda played in RTS and the serbs believed that every neighbor is bad starting from slovenians, croat, bosnians, albanians etc... This was all achieved from the propaganda of RTS. Then, some private Medias opened up like one of B92, but lately B92 is loosing its privacy and is falling as a victim of Kostunica's propaganda. B92 staff might not like my comment but what can i do, this is the reality.
One thing you serbs have to understand that Kosova is already out of your hands and that you can not get it back. Kosova is independent, like it or not.
I remember end of last year all the Albanians saying IN MARCH! Independence! What happened to that?
And about Croatia being the heart of Serbia? Avi, where did you get that? That is just ignorant. That was a war IN CROATIA with Serbs living there because they made up 25% of the population and a majority in the areas they lived. And Bosnia is half Serbian as it is today.
"As for Albanian claims about Serb oppression, here's an interesting article from the NY Times in 1982, which surprisingly talks about the initimdation of Serbs , NOT Albanians."
Of course, you quote members of the Communist Party (read: soon to be Milosevic's Socialist Party).
Actually, 1982 was right after the famous 1981 - when student's protest for better living conditions in their Prishtina dorms were so well manipulated by the Communist Government and portrayed as demands that Kosov@ unites with Enver Hoxha’s Albania (why would someone demand something like that??). These protests for better living conditions were the scapegoat that started the terror against K-Albanians that reached its peak in 1999.
Everyone knows and K-Serbs admit that they left Kosovo for economic reasons. New York Times should have talked to the actual citizens of Kosovo, not communists Nikola Ljubicic, the Kosovar communist puppet named Becir Hoti, and especially Vukasin Jokanovic,
Well i see what has happened, PM Ceku did not make a suggestion he said November 28th would be Kosovo independence. Here we go with the spin again. After meeting with Sec. Rice it STOP and put it in reverse we did not mean to declare this but would do this without consulting with Key Partners. Well as you see after consulting with Washington there no longer saying November 28th would be independence day. This declaration before going to Washington was giving again the People of Kosovo false hopes. I hope one day all parties will tell the people what is really going. If you were not present at the meeting don't put words in print that you don't know. All i know there will not be declaration nor will the people riot. Calm heads thoughtout the summer
Rice; assured the K-Albanians that it will grant or recognise Kosovo as an independant state. In turn, Ms. Rice assured the officials, including Kosovo's president and prime minister, that the U.S. was committed to achieving international recognition of Kosovo's independence within months http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118523560957375588.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
B92 please dont lose your credibility to tell the truth you have been good so far.
Well I guess optimists will be optimists, although I do not understand how one can interpret this developments as negative for the Albanians.
But first of all, even if we are the Americans' pawns, beats the hell out of being Russia's pawns. What should they do not to be called pawns, threaten to cut off diplomatic relations with the world? That I think would make them look crazy, just like a certain concenrned government is looking at the moment! I'd rather be a pawn.
The fact that the Kosovo government will not take any unilateral steps only goes to show that K- Albanian politicians are much more mature than many gave them credit for. That's all.
the US-Administration is telling the K-albanians to behave, and they do so.
the term "pawn" isn´t quite bad chosen.
posing for a lousy picture DOES have a deeper meaning if one is desperate about the recent results.
but on thursday Mr.Jeremić will attend to a meeting with Mrs.Rice, will you overrate this meeting too, my dear Ahmed?
wouldn´t a photo with Mr.Bush have been more appropriate regarding the case that seven of the "most important" K-albanians travelled to visit their "friends" in Washington?
With even the US not backing a unilateral declaraion and no UN resolution being allowed through without Belgrades approval, plus this contact group having no power to pass any resolution, it looks like game set and match to Serbia and Russia. In fact it looked like that back in 1999 when the NATO countries signed the UN resolution recognising Serbias soveriegnty over Kosovo.In 1999 NATO actually got nothing that it went to war to ty to acheive, ie occupation of the entire territory of Yugoslavia and a referendum on independence for kosovo. Strategic military and political analysts at the time refused to call this war a victory for NATO for the same reasons. This bombing didnt stop any genocide because there was no genocide to stop, this being a delberate invention of the western media to sell its war to an ignorant western public. UN teams sent to investigate Kosovo have found no evidence of mass graves or genocide.The Yugoslav army was competely justified in confronting the seccessionist movement of the muslim terrorist KLA.
Actually... it is not about Ceku being a good boy or a pawn.
First, the man made a suggestion, he did not give an ultimatum.
Also, there were American soldiers who payed with their lives during the NATO campaign in Kosovo. More of them are being shipped to Kosovo to keep the peace as we speak. Let's not talk about the amount of money this country has spent in Kosovo as well. It only makes sense that Kosovar Albanians would heed the opinions of the U.S. It's about owing a debt, not about being a simple tool of the Americans.
Now, before you talk too quickly about the U.S., just remember that Serbia just married itself to the Russians. Sooner or later you'll have to pay back your debt to them. I think that owing debts to Russia is like owing money to a Mafia thug. If you think I'm being partial here, just pay attention to what's happening to foreign oil companies in Russia today.
How can Kosovo be heartland of serbia,I am confused about this,not long ago part of Croatia was heartland of Serbia,before that was a part in Slovenia,than BH,now Kosovo, it seems very complicated guys.
In the article you quoted, you left out a pretty inconvenient paragraph:
"Privately, some officials acknowledge that the rise of Albanian nationalism in a society that is based on the principle of the equality of nationalities is the result of past errors - at first neglect and discrimination, and more recently failure to act against divisive forces or even recognize them."
That does change the picture somewhat, don't you think?
In any case, you can hardly compare the degree of intimidation described in the article with what followed later in the 80's against the Albanians.... mass firing of Albanians from both government and industry jobs, abolishment of Albanian schools etc.
Regarding the future, you should believe that ethnic cleansing is less likely to happen if Kosovo does indeed become an independent state (based on Ahtisaari's proposal). Why?
Because Albanians will have achieved what they wanted, albeit not completely. That development alone will go a long way toward removing the bad blood between the two communities.
If they can prolong this thing for a year longer, and maybe they could, by that time Serbia could enter the EU. Or at least be at the door awaiting for it to open in a year. What I'm saying is that if it can get to that point, then the Kosovar people will have a choice to make: Stay with Serbia and enjoy the EU lifestyle, or go independent and go through years of poverty and denials of membership because of its lack of progress on the return of the Serbs and treatment of minorities. Kosovo would require 10 years at least before it enters the EU. But if they stay with Serbia, then things would be different. I bet that if the Albanian people in Kosovo saw it that way, EU or isolation for a number of years, they'd go with staying with Serbia. It could happen if they saw it that way. And if the West pushes for Serbia to be allowed into the EU faster.
Seven Kosovar Albanians in the middle of Washington where the most powerful govermant in the world has its base, and there is an old saying: " A picture is worth thousand words", you ge my meaning guys.
Very productive meeting and a very bright future ahed of us.
If I were a serb I would think very hard about which path to chose......
well the albenian side has not received the hard promises eaven from there closest friend usa.the way i understand it you have to talk to belgrade before any deals can be made just ask solana he knows the rules of international law very well ,maybe the albanian side should read some of it ,you think.
What a good boy Ceku is! Very obedient. Ceku does as he is told by the Americans. What happened to all that noise from Ceku last week. All the Albanians on this site were cheering him! What will they say now? "This is good too! We will be independent soon because America says so!"
The people of Kosovo deserve better then Ceku and the Americans on their side. The games continue! I honestly believe if you were to take the Americans out of the picture right now. A solution would be found in a matter of weeks! A solution that will probably not make either the Albanians or the Serbs completely happy but one that would be acceptable. There is but one road block in the situation of Kosovo's status and that is America. Not Russia, but America.
Maybe the Americans know what will follow after a unilateral declaration of in dependence - the final ethnic cleansing of all remaining Serbs in the province.
How any Albanians can deny that this would not happen is simply unbelievable, especially as Agim Ceku has aready had a taste for expulsion in Croatia.
As for Albanian claims about Serb oppression, here's an interesting article from the NY Times in 1982, which surprisingly talks about the initimdation of Serbs , NOT Albanians.
July 12, 1982
EXODUS OF SERBIANS STIRS PROVINCE IN YUGOSLAVIA
http://tinyurl.com/2lmchg
''The nationalists have a two-point platform,'' according to Becir Hoti, an executive secretary of the Communist Party of Kosovo, ''first to establish what they call an ethnically clean Albanian republic and then the merger with Albania to form a greater Albania.''
Mr. Hoti, an Albanian, expressed concern over political pressures that were forcing Serbs to leave Kosovo. ''What is important now,'' he said, ''is to establish a climate of security and create confidence.''
The migration of Serbs is no ordinary problem becuase Kosovo is the heartland of Serbian history, culture and religion. Serbs have been in this region since the seventh century, long before they founded their own independent dynasty here in 1168.
Some 57,000 Serbs have left Kosovo in the last decade, and the number increased considerably after the riots of March and April last year, according to Vukasin Jokanovic, another executive secretary of the Kosovo party.
Mr. Jokanovic, former president of the Commission on Migration set up after last year's disturbances, said the cause of Serbian migration was ''essentially of a political nature.''
The commission has given four basic reasons for the departures: social-economic, normal migration from this underdeveloped area, an increasingly adverse social-political climate and direct and indirect pressures.
Mr. Jokanovic, a Serb, called the pressures disturbing and said they included personal insults, damage to Serbian graves and the burning of hay, cutting down wood and other attacks on property to force Serbs to leave.
The 1981 census showed Kosovo with a population of 1,584,558, of whom 77.5 percent were ethnic Albanians, 13.2 percent Serbs and 1.7 percent Montenegrins. The population in 1971 of 1,243,693 was 73.8 percent Albanian, 18.4 percent Serbian and 2.5 percent Montenegrin. Ex-Defense Minister Concerned
In a recent visit to Kosovo, Nikola Ljubcic, head of the Serbian Presidency and a former Minister of Defense, expressed particular concern about the continuing exodus of Serbs.
''An ethnically clean Kosovo will always be cause for instability,'' Mr. Ljubicic said, adding that Yugoslavia ''will never give up one foot of her land.''
Conversations with Serbs and Albanians in different parts of the province showed that that they were generally troubled about the Serbian migration but did not know what to do about it. Some people described it as ''psychological warfare'' but were at a loss to explain who was at fault. "
Maybe the Americans know what will follow after a unilateral declaration of in dependence - the final ethnic cleansing of all remaining Serbs in the province.
How any Albanians can deny that this would not happen is simply unbelievable, especially as Agim Ceku has aready had a taste for expulsion in Croatia.
As for Albanian claims about Serb oppression, here's an interesting article from the NY Times in 1982, which surprisingly talks about the initimdation of Serbs , NOT Albanians.
July 12, 1982
EXODUS OF SERBIANS STIRS PROVINCE IN YUGOSLAVIA
http://tinyurl.com/2lmchg
''The nationalists have a two-point platform,'' according to Becir Hoti, an executive secretary of the Communist Party of Kosovo, ''first to establish what they call an ethnically clean Albanian republic and then the merger with Albania to form a greater Albania.''
Mr. Hoti, an Albanian, expressed concern over political pressures that were forcing Serbs to leave Kosovo. ''What is important now,'' he said, ''is to establish a climate of security and create confidence.''
The migration of Serbs is no ordinary problem becuase Kosovo is the heartland of Serbian history, culture and religion. Serbs have been in this region since the seventh century, long before they founded their own independent dynasty here in 1168.
Some 57,000 Serbs have left Kosovo in the last decade, and the number increased considerably after the riots of March and April last year, according to Vukasin Jokanovic, another executive secretary of the Kosovo party.
Mr. Jokanovic, former president of the Commission on Migration set up after last year's disturbances, said the cause of Serbian migration was ''essentially of a political nature.''
The commission has given four basic reasons for the departures: social-economic, normal migration from this underdeveloped area, an increasingly adverse social-political climate and direct and indirect pressures.
Mr. Jokanovic, a Serb, called the pressures disturbing and said they included personal insults, damage to Serbian graves and the burning of hay, cutting down wood and other attacks on property to force Serbs to leave.
The 1981 census showed Kosovo with a population of 1,584,558, of whom 77.5 percent were ethnic Albanians, 13.2 percent Serbs and 1.7 percent Montenegrins. The population in 1971 of 1,243,693 was 73.8 percent Albanian, 18.4 percent Serbian and 2.5 percent Montenegrin. Ex-Defense Minister Concerned
In a recent visit to Kosovo, Nikola Ljubcic, head of the Serbian Presidency and a former Minister of Defense, expressed particular concern about the continuing exodus of Serbs.
''An ethnically clean Kosovo will always be cause for instability,'' Mr. Ljubicic said, adding that Yugoslavia ''will never give up one foot of her land.''
Conversations with Serbs and Albanians in different parts of the province showed that that they were generally troubled about the Serbian migration but did not know what to do about it. Some people described it as ''psychological warfare'' but were at a loss to explain who was at fault. "
What a good boy Ceku is! Very obedient. Ceku does as he is told by the Americans. What happened to all that noise from Ceku last week. All the Albanians on this site were cheering him! What will they say now? "This is good too! We will be independent soon because America says so!"
The people of Kosovo deserve better then Ceku and the Americans on their side. The games continue! I honestly believe if you were to take the Americans out of the picture right now. A solution would be found in a matter of weeks! A solution that will probably not make either the Albanians or the Serbs completely happy but one that would be acceptable. There is but one road block in the situation of Kosovo's status and that is America. Not Russia, but America.
well the albenian side has not received the hard promises eaven from there closest friend usa.the way i understand it you have to talk to belgrade before any deals can be made just ask solana he knows the rules of international law very well ,maybe the albanian side should read some of it ,you think.
With even the US not backing a unilateral declaraion and no UN resolution being allowed through without Belgrades approval, plus this contact group having no power to pass any resolution, it looks like game set and match to Serbia and Russia. In fact it looked like that back in 1999 when the NATO countries signed the UN resolution recognising Serbias soveriegnty over Kosovo.In 1999 NATO actually got nothing that it went to war to ty to acheive, ie occupation of the entire territory of Yugoslavia and a referendum on independence for kosovo. Strategic military and political analysts at the time refused to call this war a victory for NATO for the same reasons. This bombing didnt stop any genocide because there was no genocide to stop, this being a delberate invention of the western media to sell its war to an ignorant western public. UN teams sent to investigate Kosovo have found no evidence of mass graves or genocide.The Yugoslav army was competely justified in confronting the seccessionist movement of the muslim terrorist KLA.
How can Kosovo be heartland of serbia,I am confused about this,not long ago part of Croatia was heartland of Serbia,before that was a part in Slovenia,than BH,now Kosovo, it seems very complicated guys.
the US-Administration is telling the K-albanians to behave, and they do so.
the term "pawn" isn´t quite bad chosen.
posing for a lousy picture DOES have a deeper meaning if one is desperate about the recent results.
but on thursday Mr.Jeremić will attend to a meeting with Mrs.Rice, will you overrate this meeting too, my dear Ahmed?
wouldn´t a photo with Mr.Bush have been more appropriate regarding the case that seven of the "most important" K-albanians travelled to visit their "friends" in Washington?
If they can prolong this thing for a year longer, and maybe they could, by that time Serbia could enter the EU. Or at least be at the door awaiting for it to open in a year. What I'm saying is that if it can get to that point, then the Kosovar people will have a choice to make: Stay with Serbia and enjoy the EU lifestyle, or go independent and go through years of poverty and denials of membership because of its lack of progress on the return of the Serbs and treatment of minorities. Kosovo would require 10 years at least before it enters the EU. But if they stay with Serbia, then things would be different. I bet that if the Albanian people in Kosovo saw it that way, EU or isolation for a number of years, they'd go with staying with Serbia. It could happen if they saw it that way. And if the West pushes for Serbia to be allowed into the EU faster.
In the article you quoted, you left out a pretty inconvenient paragraph:
"Privately, some officials acknowledge that the rise of Albanian nationalism in a society that is based on the principle of the equality of nationalities is the result of past errors - at first neglect and discrimination, and more recently failure to act against divisive forces or even recognize them."
That does change the picture somewhat, don't you think?
In any case, you can hardly compare the degree of intimidation described in the article with what followed later in the 80's against the Albanians.... mass firing of Albanians from both government and industry jobs, abolishment of Albanian schools etc.
Regarding the future, you should believe that ethnic cleansing is less likely to happen if Kosovo does indeed become an independent state (based on Ahtisaari's proposal). Why?
Because Albanians will have achieved what they wanted, albeit not completely. That development alone will go a long way toward removing the bad blood between the two communities.
B92 should be aware that the U.S. Information Agency is fully aware of the bias in reporting on this site. If B92 continues to distort the truth then US funding will be terminated. Apparently pressure from Belgrade is weakening the resolve of B92.
Allowing paid Serb apologists on B92 to attempt to spread misinformation about the future of Kosova/o will not be tolerated by Washington.
Seven Kosovar Albanians in the middle of Washington where the most powerful govermant in the world has its base, and there is an old saying: " A picture is worth thousand words", you ge my meaning guys.
Very productive meeting and a very bright future ahed of us.
If I were a serb I would think very hard about which path to chose......
Actually... it is not about Ceku being a good boy or a pawn.
First, the man made a suggestion, he did not give an ultimatum.
Also, there were American soldiers who payed with their lives during the NATO campaign in Kosovo. More of them are being shipped to Kosovo to keep the peace as we speak. Let's not talk about the amount of money this country has spent in Kosovo as well. It only makes sense that Kosovar Albanians would heed the opinions of the U.S. It's about owing a debt, not about being a simple tool of the Americans.
Now, before you talk too quickly about the U.S., just remember that Serbia just married itself to the Russians. Sooner or later you'll have to pay back your debt to them. I think that owing debts to Russia is like owing money to a Mafia thug. If you think I'm being partial here, just pay attention to what's happening to foreign oil companies in Russia today.
I remember end of last year all the Albanians saying IN MARCH! Independence! What happened to that?
And about Croatia being the heart of Serbia? Avi, where did you get that? That is just ignorant. That was a war IN CROATIA with Serbs living there because they made up 25% of the population and a majority in the areas they lived. And Bosnia is half Serbian as it is today.
Though many posters here are still fixated on the rights and wrongs of independence, I will focus instead on the political ramifications of the current impasse for Russia and the UN on one side, and the West on the other. This is the topic that is of most prevelance, and I invite other posters to discuss this, because we've done the 'rights and wrongs' discussions of an independent Kosovo to death. Lets concentrate on the topic of the day. Time and world events have simultaneously passed and changed. It's 2007. Shall we please try and catch up with the 21st century on B92 discussions?
The West has consistently made mistakes over Kosovo (a list that can go on forever), has risked superpower confrontations (don't forget the bombing of the Chinese embassy), has effectively painted itself into a corner - largely because it tried to bypass the UN - and is now confused and divided.
One thing is also very clear; a US promoted unilateral declaration of independence, will split the EU, as a number of EU countries have stressed that they will not go against the UN. Publicly, Washington and the EU have advised Agim Ceku to drop any ideas of unilateral declarations. Western splits loom.
The bottom line is, that there is no clear western interest in Kosovo. Western governments did not go to war over genocide or 'Human rights', these were alibis concocted for the press. What is important to consider, is that
* Nato was drifting, needed a new role to justify its own expense, and needed to be tested in battle.
* Nato did not expect meaningful resistance as it had overwhelming military power. A three day war was expected, in which Serbia would capitulate unconditionally.
* Serb resistance, which led to an agreement (after 78 days of bombing) in which NATO had to make many concessions, including recognition of Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo, was a political (and arguably military) defeat for the West, which leads to todays ongoing problems.
We are where we are. It is now a face saving exercise, there is no real interest in Kosovo. Albanian thuggery towards its minorities in the last 8 years has shocked many observers, the goodwill towards them is spent, they are not a popular cause. The Milosevic factor has gone too.
Will the EU risk splits within itself, or the US risk a split with the EU over Kosovo? Why would they?
My own theory, is that the whole point of US missiles in Czech / Poland, of Kosovan independence and such matters, are all US attempts to antagonise Russia, to get her to show teeth and scare the EU back to the American apron, lest the EU start building stronger bridges with Russia than with the US, and further accelerate America's decline.
Neither EU unity, nor EU links with Russia, are in America's interests. If I am right, then the US will indeed encourage Kosovan unilateral independence, and the ensuing political fallout will well suit the US purpose. Europe needs at least to consider, that the USA is playing a cynical game to maintain her own hegemony, at Europe's expense.
Well I guess optimists will be optimists, although I do not understand how one can interpret this developments as negative for the Albanians.
But first of all, even if we are the Americans' pawns, beats the hell out of being Russia's pawns. What should they do not to be called pawns, threaten to cut off diplomatic relations with the world? That I think would make them look crazy, just like a certain concenrned government is looking at the moment! I'd rather be a pawn.
The fact that the Kosovo government will not take any unilateral steps only goes to show that K- Albanian politicians are much more mature than many gave them credit for. That's all.
Well i see what has happened, PM Ceku did not make a suggestion he said November 28th would be Kosovo independence. Here we go with the spin again. After meeting with Sec. Rice it STOP and put it in reverse we did not mean to declare this but would do this without consulting with Key Partners. Well as you see after consulting with Washington there no longer saying November 28th would be independence day. This declaration before going to Washington was giving again the People of Kosovo false hopes. I hope one day all parties will tell the people what is really going. If you were not present at the meeting don't put words in print that you don't know. All i know there will not be declaration nor will the people riot. Calm heads thoughtout the summer
. . .Jordan K. Bosworth just told on you guys! Now you're gonna get it!
Hopefully this U.S. Information Agency doesn't bomb your office.
As for the Serb apologists. . .how dare you oppose the dismemberment of a sovereign state based on the sound principles of international law and territorial integrity. Shame on you for noting that the basis for Albanian separatist aspirations is grounded in false logic. . .the perceived persecution of the Albanian community when, as a percentage of the population, the Serb community in Kosovo suffered much more than the Albanian including the unrelenting destruction of their christian heritage.
Jordan. . .I promise that we'll make those dastardly Serbs and their cohorts think twice before they offend you, Albanian separatists and certain (pseudo) U.S. agencies!
Hahaha. . .do you want some cheese with that whine? Is that even a real name? Grow up.
Rice; assured the K-Albanians that it will grant or recognise Kosovo as an independant state. In turn, Ms. Rice assured the officials, including Kosovo's president and prime minister, that the U.S. was committed to achieving international recognition of Kosovo's independence within months http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118523560957375588.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
B92 please dont lose your credibility to tell the truth you have been good so far.
"As for Albanian claims about Serb oppression, here's an interesting article from the NY Times in 1982, which surprisingly talks about the initimdation of Serbs , NOT Albanians."
Of course, you quote members of the Communist Party (read: soon to be Milosevic's Socialist Party).
Actually, 1982 was right after the famous 1981 - when student's protest for better living conditions in their Prishtina dorms were so well manipulated by the Communist Government and portrayed as demands that Kosov@ unites with Enver Hoxha’s Albania (why would someone demand something like that??). These protests for better living conditions were the scapegoat that started the terror against K-Albanians that reached its peak in 1999.
Everyone knows and K-Serbs admit that they left Kosovo for economic reasons. New York Times should have talked to the actual citizens of Kosovo, not communists Nikola Ljubicic, the Kosovar communist puppet named Becir Hoti, and especially Vukasin Jokanovic,
Jordan K. Bosworth
You are ridiculous. Is biased information that which states the truth? Or an opinion? In which case the only truth is that which the US pays for. Whats biased are all the articles that claim that Albanians have 90% of pop in KosovO without mentioning the nearly 300000 reffugee Serbs living outside of Kosovo which NATO has been preventing from going back. That type of news is biased and propaganda. As far as you threatening to pull ur funds. Thats a threat to manipulate news to your liking. Do that with FOX and CNN. B92 report it as it is.
If my country does not correct its foolish policies very soon China will be our largest banker holding the deed to America.The time for unilateral US moves is over and Bush can hardly wait to leave Washington and go to his peaceful Crawford ranch while Europe will be left to deal with Kosovo just as with Cyprus for the next 50 years.
Who appointed you the world media watchguard? B92 is in part funded by US entities but its majority Serbian owned. I had issues with them during 1999 when they were nothing more then an extended propaganda arm of the USA but since then they have become a reasonable news agency that reports the news mostly accurately. The New York times however is the world's joke in printed media, much like CNN was for TV in the 90's. CNN has since cleaned up their act but the New York times continues to be a joke. Just look at their success compared to the Los Angeles times who is by miles more successful. Anyway it seems to me you have a problem with B92 because they are not engaging in propaganda anymore, for any side! And that's how it should be. Tell me one News Agency in Kosovo that allows a platform like the one B92 gives here for comments by anyone, even people like you.
NATO from the air and KLA on the ground brought serb military machinery to dire situation and all they had left is to put their tail between their legs and run to belgrade=78 days that you are talking about, and you still think you were victorious, this is unbalivable.
A $200,000 laser guided bomb incinerating an inflatable tank? Serbian army withdrawing with 95% of its military machine after 78 days of intense criminal air strikes? Yeah… I would call that a win. Wouldn’t you? I can’t believe how many Albania revisionists leave their comments here.
Yeah, its really sad that even B92 is loosing its controls lately. In this case, B92 is not telling that Ms. Rice assured the kosovar team that America was strongly supporting Kosova's independence and that it will happen within this year. Also Ms. Rice mentioned the words of G. W. Bush in Tirana where he publicly declared the support for Independence of Kosova.
In the 1990's the serbs were brainwashed by the propaganda played in RTS and the serbs believed that every neighbor is bad starting from slovenians, croat, bosnians, albanians etc... This was all achieved from the propaganda of RTS. Then, some private Medias opened up like one of B92, but lately B92 is loosing its privacy and is falling as a victim of Kostunica's propaganda. B92 staff might not like my comment but what can i do, this is the reality.
One thing you serbs have to understand that Kosova is already out of your hands and that you can not get it back. Kosova is independent, like it or not.
Good!!! I hope Washington cuts off funding, let the Russians fund B92, they have more resources. Apparently the "queen of misinformation" (Washington) will not tolerate anyone else usurping their M.O.!
If a solution is not found Serbia will never join EU before solving Kosovo case. As what I see, is that both Kosovo and Serbia is loosing which more and which less history will tell. Nor Kosovars nor Serbs in Serbia are happy with the latest development, hence politicians enjoy their armchairs and ordinary people suffer. Well done both side, see how long this will last.
FYI, in the west Serbs and Albanians are working together , i guess they can work in Kosovo and in Serbia if they have work to do. But since there isn't work they deal with nationalism. Nature's law!
You're right in that B92 should be admonished by the US & the West...It should be for letting nonsense such as your post to get past the cutting room floor. You addressed absolutely nothing specifically (this is becoming more the rule rather than the exception for K-Albanian supporters), and made ambiguous accusations about a conspiracy between B92 w/ the Belgrade regime, which holds no power according to K-Albanians. Make up your minds, is Belgrade or isn't it impotent? Next...
Jovan I agree with you once again. Big brother reminds leaders(this time K-Albanian)that there are some rules that ought to follow. Ceku has done nothing more or less than any other politician that declares that pensions will rise or Serbian soldiers will never leave Kosova . So politicians declarations should be taken as declarations that can change according to the wind direction.
PB
Great article.
Those demonstration were for better living conditions in dormitories Declarations were/are not in touch with the reality
PB that was the Beginning of the End for SFRJ. You can probably see how it all started. Ljubicic declares genocide already to its inhabitants..
Decline in number of Serbs living in Kosova was not because of any applied pressure by K-Albanians but because of the economic reasons and high mortality.
Hmmmm....
We lost 5% of our military while it costed NATO 100s of billions of dollars. In the end they even signed a treaty that confirms that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia. Clear Serbian victory and alban and NATO loss.
4% of the Serbian army was destroyed in the 1999 war with NATO, this according to JANE'S Military facts on the internet. JANES is the word military fact authority and also an American company. You might do well to visit their web site some time. The Americans spent Billions of dollars in bombing without reasonable results, then they spent millions of dollars repairing the damage to civilian infrastructure. And all this resulted in resolution 1244! Had they won, Kosovo would have been independent after the war and we wouldn't have this situation today... The Americans lost that war or at best call it a draw. Get your facts stright first!
Puppets? This is funny!? Was that meant as an insult? If the Mr Blair can afford to be America's puppet, you're supprised about Ceku??!! Are you maybe suggesting us to ignore Rice's advice? This is Ceku a smart politician we're talking about not some Seselj nutter you've expected.
avi wrote:
How can Kosovo be heartland of serbia,I am confused about this,not long ago part of Croatia was heartland of Serbia,before that was a part in Slovenia,than BH,now Kosovo, it seems very complicated guys...
avi you forgot to say that even albania and especially its outlet to the adriatic were strongly claimed as the heart of serbia.
I guess that serbs have more hearts than cows stomachs.
Hi BP, I like your link, "Kosovo, an autonomous province of Yugoslavia" NOT SERBIA!!! I did not thank that you are for the Independents of Kosovo. I thank you are doing a great job trying to get Kosovo Independents, But I do not see an Independent Kosova tile next Year. Good luck with your Propaganda Machine!!!
Serbia has its police on strike, much of its forests on fire, 58% unemployment and your politicians have the guts to spend the people's hard earned taxes on making empty threats to the EU US and nations willing to recognize Kosova independence? Kostunica and co. should all resign for failure to stimulate the economy, create jobs and plan for the future of your people. Making threats to other nations only makes your own people tremble with fear...fear of losing jobs..AGAIN!! And more destruction, garbage, and poison in the food chain environment. Haven't the people in the Balkans suffered enough of this? Kostunica...LET MY KOSOVA GO, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!
why is every one is been mean to ahmet isufi, my friend stop westing your time in this debate,I read these coments every day why is so much hate and rac.
I hope one day you guys start talking about futere and respect each other russia or america don't give dam about us serbs or albanian peace.
lily
58% unemployment rate? Whever do you get your sources from not even with Kosovos 80% unemployment included into the stats do we get anywhere near 58%.
B92 should be aware that the U.S. Information Agency is fully aware of the bias in reporting on this site. If B92 continues to distort the truth then US funding will be terminated. Apparently pressure from Belgrade is weakening the resolve of B92.
Allowing paid Serb apologists on B92 to attempt to spread misinformation about the future of Kosova/o will not be tolerated by Washington.
How can Kosovo be heartland of serbia,I am confused about this,not long ago part of Croatia was heartland of Serbia,before that was a part in Slovenia,than BH,now Kosovo, it seems very complicated guys.
Maybe the Americans know what will follow after a unilateral declaration of in dependence - the final ethnic cleansing of all remaining Serbs in the province.
How any Albanians can deny that this would not happen is simply unbelievable, especially as Agim Ceku has aready had a taste for expulsion in Croatia.
As for Albanian claims about Serb oppression, here's an interesting article from the NY Times in 1982, which surprisingly talks about the initimdation of Serbs , NOT Albanians.
July 12, 1982
EXODUS OF SERBIANS STIRS PROVINCE IN YUGOSLAVIA
http://tinyurl.com/2lmchg
''The nationalists have a two-point platform,'' according to Becir Hoti, an executive secretary of the Communist Party of Kosovo, ''first to establish what they call an ethnically clean Albanian republic and then the merger with Albania to form a greater Albania.''
Mr. Hoti, an Albanian, expressed concern over political pressures that were forcing Serbs to leave Kosovo. ''What is important now,'' he said, ''is to establish a climate of security and create confidence.''
The migration of Serbs is no ordinary problem becuase Kosovo is the heartland of Serbian history, culture and religion. Serbs have been in this region since the seventh century, long before they founded their own independent dynasty here in 1168.
Some 57,000 Serbs have left Kosovo in the last decade, and the number increased considerably after the riots of March and April last year, according to Vukasin Jokanovic, another executive secretary of the Kosovo party.
Mr. Jokanovic, former president of the Commission on Migration set up after last year's disturbances, said the cause of Serbian migration was ''essentially of a political nature.''
The commission has given four basic reasons for the departures: social-economic, normal migration from this underdeveloped area, an increasingly adverse social-political climate and direct and indirect pressures.
Mr. Jokanovic, a Serb, called the pressures disturbing and said they included personal insults, damage to Serbian graves and the burning of hay, cutting down wood and other attacks on property to force Serbs to leave.
The 1981 census showed Kosovo with a population of 1,584,558, of whom 77.5 percent were ethnic Albanians, 13.2 percent Serbs and 1.7 percent Montenegrins. The population in 1971 of 1,243,693 was 73.8 percent Albanian, 18.4 percent Serbian and 2.5 percent Montenegrin. Ex-Defense Minister Concerned
In a recent visit to Kosovo, Nikola Ljubcic, head of the Serbian Presidency and a former Minister of Defense, expressed particular concern about the continuing exodus of Serbs.
''An ethnically clean Kosovo will always be cause for instability,'' Mr. Ljubicic said, adding that Yugoslavia ''will never give up one foot of her land.''
Conversations with Serbs and Albanians in different parts of the province showed that that they were generally troubled about the Serbian migration but did not know what to do about it. Some people described it as ''psychological warfare'' but were at a loss to explain who was at fault. "
With even the US not backing a unilateral declaraion and no UN resolution being allowed through without Belgrades approval, plus this contact group having no power to pass any resolution, it looks like game set and match to Serbia and Russia. In fact it looked like that back in 1999 when the NATO countries signed the UN resolution recognising Serbias soveriegnty over Kosovo.In 1999 NATO actually got nothing that it went to war to ty to acheive, ie occupation of the entire territory of Yugoslavia and a referendum on independence for kosovo. Strategic military and political analysts at the time refused to call this war a victory for NATO for the same reasons. This bombing didnt stop any genocide because there was no genocide to stop, this being a delberate invention of the western media to sell its war to an ignorant western public. UN teams sent to investigate Kosovo have found no evidence of mass graves or genocide.The Yugoslav army was competely justified in confronting the seccessionist movement of the muslim terrorist KLA.
Yeah, its really sad that even B92 is loosing its controls lately. In this case, B92 is not telling that Ms. Rice assured the kosovar team that America was strongly supporting Kosova's independence and that it will happen within this year. Also Ms. Rice mentioned the words of G. W. Bush in Tirana where he publicly declared the support for Independence of Kosova.
In the 1990's the serbs were brainwashed by the propaganda played in RTS and the serbs believed that every neighbor is bad starting from slovenians, croat, bosnians, albanians etc... This was all achieved from the propaganda of RTS. Then, some private Medias opened up like one of B92, but lately B92 is loosing its privacy and is falling as a victim of Kostunica's propaganda. B92 staff might not like my comment but what can i do, this is the reality.
One thing you serbs have to understand that Kosova is already out of your hands and that you can not get it back. Kosova is independent, like it or not.
Actually... it is not about Ceku being a good boy or a pawn.
First, the man made a suggestion, he did not give an ultimatum.
Also, there were American soldiers who payed with their lives during the NATO campaign in Kosovo. More of them are being shipped to Kosovo to keep the peace as we speak. Let's not talk about the amount of money this country has spent in Kosovo as well. It only makes sense that Kosovar Albanians would heed the opinions of the U.S. It's about owing a debt, not about being a simple tool of the Americans.
Now, before you talk too quickly about the U.S., just remember that Serbia just married itself to the Russians. Sooner or later you'll have to pay back your debt to them. I think that owing debts to Russia is like owing money to a Mafia thug. If you think I'm being partial here, just pay attention to what's happening to foreign oil companies in Russia today.
well the albenian side has not received the hard promises eaven from there closest friend usa.the way i understand it you have to talk to belgrade before any deals can be made just ask solana he knows the rules of international law very well ,maybe the albanian side should read some of it ,you think.
If they can prolong this thing for a year longer, and maybe they could, by that time Serbia could enter the EU. Or at least be at the door awaiting for it to open in a year. What I'm saying is that if it can get to that point, then the Kosovar people will have a choice to make: Stay with Serbia and enjoy the EU lifestyle, or go independent and go through years of poverty and denials of membership because of its lack of progress on the return of the Serbs and treatment of minorities. Kosovo would require 10 years at least before it enters the EU. But if they stay with Serbia, then things would be different. I bet that if the Albanian people in Kosovo saw it that way, EU or isolation for a number of years, they'd go with staying with Serbia. It could happen if they saw it that way. And if the West pushes for Serbia to be allowed into the EU faster.
In the article you quoted, you left out a pretty inconvenient paragraph:
"Privately, some officials acknowledge that the rise of Albanian nationalism in a society that is based on the principle of the equality of nationalities is the result of past errors - at first neglect and discrimination, and more recently failure to act against divisive forces or even recognize them."
That does change the picture somewhat, don't you think?
In any case, you can hardly compare the degree of intimidation described in the article with what followed later in the 80's against the Albanians.... mass firing of Albanians from both government and industry jobs, abolishment of Albanian schools etc.
Regarding the future, you should believe that ethnic cleansing is less likely to happen if Kosovo does indeed become an independent state (based on Ahtisaari's proposal). Why?
Because Albanians will have achieved what they wanted, albeit not completely. That development alone will go a long way toward removing the bad blood between the two communities.
Well I guess optimists will be optimists, although I do not understand how one can interpret this developments as negative for the Albanians.
But first of all, even if we are the Americans' pawns, beats the hell out of being Russia's pawns. What should they do not to be called pawns, threaten to cut off diplomatic relations with the world? That I think would make them look crazy, just like a certain concenrned government is looking at the moment! I'd rather be a pawn.
The fact that the Kosovo government will not take any unilateral steps only goes to show that K- Albanian politicians are much more mature than many gave them credit for. That's all.
What a good boy Ceku is! Very obedient. Ceku does as he is told by the Americans. What happened to all that noise from Ceku last week. All the Albanians on this site were cheering him! What will they say now? "This is good too! We will be independent soon because America says so!"
The people of Kosovo deserve better then Ceku and the Americans on their side. The games continue! I honestly believe if you were to take the Americans out of the picture right now. A solution would be found in a matter of weeks! A solution that will probably not make either the Albanians or the Serbs completely happy but one that would be acceptable. There is but one road block in the situation of Kosovo's status and that is America. Not Russia, but America.
Seven Kosovar Albanians in the middle of Washington where the most powerful govermant in the world has its base, and there is an old saying: " A picture is worth thousand words", you ge my meaning guys.
Very productive meeting and a very bright future ahed of us.
If I were a serb I would think very hard about which path to chose......
the US-Administration is telling the K-albanians to behave, and they do so.
the term "pawn" isn´t quite bad chosen.
posing for a lousy picture DOES have a deeper meaning if one is desperate about the recent results.
but on thursday Mr.Jeremić will attend to a meeting with Mrs.Rice, will you overrate this meeting too, my dear Ahmed?
wouldn´t a photo with Mr.Bush have been more appropriate regarding the case that seven of the "most important" K-albanians travelled to visit their "friends" in Washington?
Rice; assured the K-Albanians that it will grant or recognise Kosovo as an independant state. In turn, Ms. Rice assured the officials, including Kosovo's president and prime minister, that the U.S. was committed to achieving international recognition of Kosovo's independence within months http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118523560957375588.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
B92 please dont lose your credibility to tell the truth you have been good so far.
"As for Albanian claims about Serb oppression, here's an interesting article from the NY Times in 1982, which surprisingly talks about the initimdation of Serbs , NOT Albanians."
Of course, you quote members of the Communist Party (read: soon to be Milosevic's Socialist Party).
Actually, 1982 was right after the famous 1981 - when student's protest for better living conditions in their Prishtina dorms were so well manipulated by the Communist Government and portrayed as demands that Kosov@ unites with Enver Hoxha’s Albania (why would someone demand something like that??). These protests for better living conditions were the scapegoat that started the terror against K-Albanians that reached its peak in 1999.
Everyone knows and K-Serbs admit that they left Kosovo for economic reasons. New York Times should have talked to the actual citizens of Kosovo, not communists Nikola Ljubicic, the Kosovar communist puppet named Becir Hoti, and especially Vukasin Jokanovic,
Serbia has its police on strike, much of its forests on fire, 58% unemployment and your politicians have the guts to spend the people's hard earned taxes on making empty threats to the EU US and nations willing to recognize Kosova independence? Kostunica and co. should all resign for failure to stimulate the economy, create jobs and plan for the future of your people. Making threats to other nations only makes your own people tremble with fear...fear of losing jobs..AGAIN!! And more destruction, garbage, and poison in the food chain environment. Haven't the people in the Balkans suffered enough of this? Kostunica...LET MY KOSOVA GO, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!
NATO from the air and KLA on the ground brought serb military machinery to dire situation and all they had left is to put their tail between their legs and run to belgrade=78 days that you are talking about, and you still think you were victorious, this is unbalivable.
Hi BP, I like your link, "Kosovo, an autonomous province of Yugoslavia" NOT SERBIA!!! I did not thank that you are for the Independents of Kosovo. I thank you are doing a great job trying to get Kosovo Independents, But I do not see an Independent Kosova tile next Year. Good luck with your Propaganda Machine!!!
. . .Jordan K. Bosworth just told on you guys! Now you're gonna get it!
Hopefully this U.S. Information Agency doesn't bomb your office.
As for the Serb apologists. . .how dare you oppose the dismemberment of a sovereign state based on the sound principles of international law and territorial integrity. Shame on you for noting that the basis for Albanian separatist aspirations is grounded in false logic. . .the perceived persecution of the Albanian community when, as a percentage of the population, the Serb community in Kosovo suffered much more than the Albanian including the unrelenting destruction of their christian heritage.
Jordan. . .I promise that we'll make those dastardly Serbs and their cohorts think twice before they offend you, Albanian separatists and certain (pseudo) U.S. agencies!
Hahaha. . .do you want some cheese with that whine? Is that even a real name? Grow up.
A $200,000 laser guided bomb incinerating an inflatable tank? Serbian army withdrawing with 95% of its military machine after 78 days of intense criminal air strikes? Yeah… I would call that a win. Wouldn’t you? I can’t believe how many Albania revisionists leave their comments here.
Well i see what has happened, PM Ceku did not make a suggestion he said November 28th would be Kosovo independence. Here we go with the spin again. After meeting with Sec. Rice it STOP and put it in reverse we did not mean to declare this but would do this without consulting with Key Partners. Well as you see after consulting with Washington there no longer saying November 28th would be independence day. This declaration before going to Washington was giving again the People of Kosovo false hopes. I hope one day all parties will tell the people what is really going. If you were not present at the meeting don't put words in print that you don't know. All i know there will not be declaration nor will the people riot. Calm heads thoughtout the summer
I remember end of last year all the Albanians saying IN MARCH! Independence! What happened to that?
And about Croatia being the heart of Serbia? Avi, where did you get that? That is just ignorant. That was a war IN CROATIA with Serbs living there because they made up 25% of the population and a majority in the areas they lived. And Bosnia is half Serbian as it is today.
Puppets? This is funny!? Was that meant as an insult? If the Mr Blair can afford to be America's puppet, you're supprised about Ceku??!! Are you maybe suggesting us to ignore Rice's advice? This is Ceku a smart politician we're talking about not some Seselj nutter you've expected.
avi wrote:
How can Kosovo be heartland of serbia,I am confused about this,not long ago part of Croatia was heartland of Serbia,before that was a part in Slovenia,than BH,now Kosovo, it seems very complicated guys...
avi you forgot to say that even albania and especially its outlet to the adriatic were strongly claimed as the heart of serbia.
I guess that serbs have more hearts than cows stomachs.
Jordan K. Bosworth
You are ridiculous. Is biased information that which states the truth? Or an opinion? In which case the only truth is that which the US pays for. Whats biased are all the articles that claim that Albanians have 90% of pop in KosovO without mentioning the nearly 300000 reffugee Serbs living outside of Kosovo which NATO has been preventing from going back. That type of news is biased and propaganda. As far as you threatening to pull ur funds. Thats a threat to manipulate news to your liking. Do that with FOX and CNN. B92 report it as it is.
Though many posters here are still fixated on the rights and wrongs of independence, I will focus instead on the political ramifications of the current impasse for Russia and the UN on one side, and the West on the other. This is the topic that is of most prevelance, and I invite other posters to discuss this, because we've done the 'rights and wrongs' discussions of an independent Kosovo to death. Lets concentrate on the topic of the day. Time and world events have simultaneously passed and changed. It's 2007. Shall we please try and catch up with the 21st century on B92 discussions?
The West has consistently made mistakes over Kosovo (a list that can go on forever), has risked superpower confrontations (don't forget the bombing of the Chinese embassy), has effectively painted itself into a corner - largely because it tried to bypass the UN - and is now confused and divided.
One thing is also very clear; a US promoted unilateral declaration of independence, will split the EU, as a number of EU countries have stressed that they will not go against the UN. Publicly, Washington and the EU have advised Agim Ceku to drop any ideas of unilateral declarations. Western splits loom.
The bottom line is, that there is no clear western interest in Kosovo. Western governments did not go to war over genocide or 'Human rights', these were alibis concocted for the press. What is important to consider, is that
* Nato was drifting, needed a new role to justify its own expense, and needed to be tested in battle.
* Nato did not expect meaningful resistance as it had overwhelming military power. A three day war was expected, in which Serbia would capitulate unconditionally.
* Serb resistance, which led to an agreement (after 78 days of bombing) in which NATO had to make many concessions, including recognition of Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo, was a political (and arguably military) defeat for the West, which leads to todays ongoing problems.
We are where we are. It is now a face saving exercise, there is no real interest in Kosovo. Albanian thuggery towards its minorities in the last 8 years has shocked many observers, the goodwill towards them is spent, they are not a popular cause. The Milosevic factor has gone too.
Will the EU risk splits within itself, or the US risk a split with the EU over Kosovo? Why would they?
My own theory, is that the whole point of US missiles in Czech / Poland, of Kosovan independence and such matters, are all US attempts to antagonise Russia, to get her to show teeth and scare the EU back to the American apron, lest the EU start building stronger bridges with Russia than with the US, and further accelerate America's decline.
Neither EU unity, nor EU links with Russia, are in America's interests. If I am right, then the US will indeed encourage Kosovan unilateral independence, and the ensuing political fallout will well suit the US purpose. Europe needs at least to consider, that the USA is playing a cynical game to maintain her own hegemony, at Europe's expense.
If my country does not correct its foolish policies very soon China will be our largest banker holding the deed to America.The time for unilateral US moves is over and Bush can hardly wait to leave Washington and go to his peaceful Crawford ranch while Europe will be left to deal with Kosovo just as with Cyprus for the next 50 years.
Good!!! I hope Washington cuts off funding, let the Russians fund B92, they have more resources. Apparently the "queen of misinformation" (Washington) will not tolerate anyone else usurping their M.O.!
If a solution is not found Serbia will never join EU before solving Kosovo case. As what I see, is that both Kosovo and Serbia is loosing which more and which less history will tell. Nor Kosovars nor Serbs in Serbia are happy with the latest development, hence politicians enjoy their armchairs and ordinary people suffer. Well done both side, see how long this will last.
FYI, in the west Serbs and Albanians are working together , i guess they can work in Kosovo and in Serbia if they have work to do. But since there isn't work they deal with nationalism. Nature's law!
Who appointed you the world media watchguard? B92 is in part funded by US entities but its majority Serbian owned. I had issues with them during 1999 when they were nothing more then an extended propaganda arm of the USA but since then they have become a reasonable news agency that reports the news mostly accurately. The New York times however is the world's joke in printed media, much like CNN was for TV in the 90's. CNN has since cleaned up their act but the New York times continues to be a joke. Just look at their success compared to the Los Angeles times who is by miles more successful. Anyway it seems to me you have a problem with B92 because they are not engaging in propaganda anymore, for any side! And that's how it should be. Tell me one News Agency in Kosovo that allows a platform like the one B92 gives here for comments by anyone, even people like you.
You're right in that B92 should be admonished by the US & the West...It should be for letting nonsense such as your post to get past the cutting room floor. You addressed absolutely nothing specifically (this is becoming more the rule rather than the exception for K-Albanian supporters), and made ambiguous accusations about a conspiracy between B92 w/ the Belgrade regime, which holds no power according to K-Albanians. Make up your minds, is Belgrade or isn't it impotent? Next...
why is every one is been mean to ahmet isufi, my friend stop westing your time in this debate,I read these coments every day why is so much hate and rac.
I hope one day you guys start talking about futere and respect each other russia or america don't give dam about us serbs or albanian peace.
Jovan I agree with you once again. Big brother reminds leaders(this time K-Albanian)that there are some rules that ought to follow. Ceku has done nothing more or less than any other politician that declares that pensions will rise or Serbian soldiers will never leave Kosova . So politicians declarations should be taken as declarations that can change according to the wind direction.
PB
Great article.
Those demonstration were for better living conditions in dormitories Declarations were/are not in touch with the reality
PB that was the Beginning of the End for SFRJ. You can probably see how it all started. Ljubicic declares genocide already to its inhabitants..
Decline in number of Serbs living in Kosova was not because of any applied pressure by K-Albanians but because of the economic reasons and high mortality.
Hmmmm....
We lost 5% of our military while it costed NATO 100s of billions of dollars. In the end they even signed a treaty that confirms that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia. Clear Serbian victory and alban and NATO loss.
lily
58% unemployment rate? Whever do you get your sources from not even with Kosovos 80% unemployment included into the stats do we get anywhere near 58%.
4% of the Serbian army was destroyed in the 1999 war with NATO, this according to JANE'S Military facts on the internet. JANES is the word military fact authority and also an American company. You might do well to visit their web site some time. The Americans spent Billions of dollars in bombing without reasonable results, then they spent millions of dollars repairing the damage to civilian infrastructure. And all this resulted in resolution 1244! Had they won, Kosovo would have been independent after the war and we wouldn't have this situation today... The Americans lost that war or at best call it a draw. Get your facts stright first!
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