Koštunica: Serbia, Russia achieve success

it´s eaysily undertandable that Albanians are very critic about this and eager to present it as something bad, of course done by Serbia.
in reality Serbia stood strong with support of its important ally Russia, in order to protect the rule of international law. that´s something that a lot of states in the world will be quite happy with.

After "mark my words:Russia will never use veto!"(what is this situation then effective veto,by the way?) now we gonna see (and read) Albanian comments here who will try to fake some positivity with things like "oh,we always hoped Russia will use veto so there is no Ahtissari plan..."
Things are clear: impotent and useless organization like EU would NEVER reach a consensus between 27 of them to recognize unilateral recognition!

Serbia and Russia measure success by prolonging the status limbo, and the economic misery, unemployment and the suffering of common people in Kosova, be them Albanian or Serb and by dragging the agony to the longest extent possible. Their success is measured by antagonizing the Serbs and Albanians in Kosova, inciting hatred, setting them one against the other, poisoning the inter-ethnic environment, diminishing trust.
Their success is in denying after all, the sweeping rights granted to the local Serbs under the Ahtisaari plan, and their veto power in the Parliament, rights that no minority has in Serbia.
Their success is in making the conditions of the local Serbs even more difficult, in the hope that they will leave their homes for some shabby barracks in Serbia, so that it will make it possible for the politicians in Serbia to finally play the self-assigned role of the drama queen.

Obviously this was a victory for Serbia and Russia. We GOT what we wanted. So whats so hard to understand? Resolution 1244 is still standing, while the plan for independence went in the trash bin. The move to transfer negotiations from the UN to the Contact group is just a saving face act by the U.S. and GB. (the only 2 countries in reality who are forcing the issue) All your other "allies" are just following orders from these 2. Trust me, they will only follow orders to a certain extent. The U.S. is losing every military and diplomatic battle they engage in these days and Russia just seems to be winning all of theirs. The tables are turning my friends. But unlike the U.S. the Russians will not FORCE one side to get it all while the other gets nothing. It will be fair and balanced. Kosovo and its people will rule themselves, while Serbia's territorial integrity will be respected. Preserving International Law and preventing other copy-cat conflicts from starting.

Congratulations guys, job well done. Keep up the good work!

Failure to agree = success?!

The contact group has already made up its mind. Thanks to the US. However, What would happen if Russia leaves this group. It will become a useless tool. The fact it has Russia on it gives it the weight it has. Without them its the same countries that promoted the plan in the UN. Russia could make fun of that all they want afterwards. K-Serbs should invite Russian troops to North Kosovo to make sure no one does anything like break 1244 since KFOR is a tool.

Hardly a success. You now have President Agim Ceku putting a forward a motion to declare independence on the 28th of November “Albanian Independence Day”. A provocation if ever there was one. How does one separate Kosovo from Albania when one shares the same calendar for celebrations? Serbia has missed an opportunity although an unfavorable one to finally put a nail in this coffin. From today onwards I can only see a worsening of the situation which will play out far more unfavorably for Serbia and especially it’s Kosovo Serbs.

Yet another defeat portrayed as a victory by the ultra radical serbian politicians like Mr.Kostunica.
Russia has no veto power in the Contact Group and therefore no leverage whatsoever.
There will be no negociations on the Independence of Kosova. The people of Kosova wont allow such negociations.

Now that the issue is outside of the disfunctional UN the Independence of Kosova is surely to follow within months.

Alfa, I must admitt that I could not have said it better. I agree with your coments 1000%. The only loosing party will be the K-Serbs, becasue we will not honor Ahtisari package to give extra prevleages to serb minority .

Nick you said >

Yet another defeat portrayed as a victory by the ultra radical Serbian politicians like Mr.Kostunica.

Nick no independence equals VICTORY! By the way most of the EU has lost interest in supporting independence in Kosovo and by November do you really think the USA will still support you. If the Americans have to choose between the EU and Kosovo which do you think they will choose? Besides, even if Bush wanted to defy the EU he would still have to get illegal unilateral declaration of independence passed through US Congress, and that won't happen since the Congress is Democratic and not Republican. Bush cannot even get the most simple bills to pass through Congress never mind something like Kosovo.

I still cannot see how this is a victory for the Serbs. If one sees the declaration of the sponsors of the resolution it states that the new "discussions" will still be based on Ahtisari's plan which means Independence with EU in Kosovo/a. However unlike the first time now we have only the US, major EU countries and Russia playing the game. This time however Russia holds no veto power in this game, and a simple majority vote puts an end to discussions. Once these are over the US and each of the respective countries can unilaterally recognize Kosovo/a's independence. Of course it would be better for the independence to be recognized by the UN, however since now that it is clear that Russia will always veto it, then the process has moved out of it where Russia has no veto and where each country could recognize Kosovo/a by its own.
I wonder if this is the reason why the Serbs and the Russians now are asking for the final decision to be made in the UN? I wonder If somehow they fear that major western countries will make the decision on their own. It has to because how can one explain that when the final decision is taken away from the UN it is celebrated as a victory, yet propose for the decision to be taken in the UN after one day the victory was tasted. I see a contradiction here,or to use a better word fear from the west now that the western countries are closer in abandoning the UN and making the decision for recognition individually and out of the UN.
I still fail to see how this is a victory. If some Serbian posters here are kind enough to explain it to me I would appreciate it.
The way i see it is that now the West has decided not to let this issue be dragged by the Russians anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians wanted to create and maintain an open conflict in the heart of Europe. This way the EU would divided and on a weaker position when it comes to discussing important matters with Russia. There are good chances that countries such as UK, France etc. might have had this in consideration when they bypassed the UN for the Contact Group.

cvele, I personaly and many others like me don't care about zubin potok and leposaviq, if that is what you want i you can have it but nothing esle becaseu the rest is Kosova land belonging to Kosovar Albanians and other minorities.I must agree that leposaviq and zubin potok was always serbian.
By the way, I got some good news for all of you, here it is: US Military Base called " Monteith" was turned over on Friday to TMK the future Kosova ARMED FORCES.

Russia didn't fight for Serbia in 1999 nor will fight now. They cant fight with americans. Politicly yes, but in the end what USA will say it will happen. Albanians are very lucky in this one.
(arif pakashtica, 21. July 2007 23:24)

Arif, careful what you say, because most of your fellow Albanians also said Russia would never use a veto but obviously it turns out they would. And no my friend America is not the most powerful country in the world when it comes to the law. Because the Law will always beat force. Or look at it this way, if America is so powerful why do you not have independence yet?

I dont know who loses in this one. It is victory for Kostunica and a victory for Ceku who is been calling for another way rather then UN resolution.
There are somethings that people are missing here. USA is the strongest country in the world. Every other country wana be in their side. Refer to president BUSH "Kosovo will bee independent". Refer to secretary Rice "Kosovo will bee independent in one way or another" What else is other to discuss here. Russia didn't fight for Serbia in 1999 nor will fight now. They cant fight with americans. Politicly yes, but in the end what USA will say it will happen. Albanians are very lucky in this one.

I guess Serbs should get Ivanovic and replace Kostunica, cause Ivanovic is much more realistic and know very well the case, and he is right what he has said. Serbs won nothing, but Russia has lost more the credibility in the international world. Think, out of 15 countries only Russia rejected, what does that tell you?! I admire them supporting their brother Serbs regardless of the loss, but they should think will Serbia do the same if the were in the same position? Let you readers decide.
Peace to Kosovo and Serbia!
Cheers

In my opinion a success for Serbia would be a UN decision in favour of Serbia, or a change in the worlds opinion about Kosovo. Like this to me it is a very immature statement by the Serbia's leaders.

This is the best news for Kostunica. He has achieved what he had hoped for, i.e. to give away Kosova without getting the blame for it. In this sense, it is a great achievement for Serbian politicians. The game is up. Even Princip has understood it because he has stopped pontificating.

laki,

Last week Serbia and Russia signed a 1 Billion dollar natural gas pipeline to be constructed and run through Serbia to provide Central Europe and the Balkans energy. Where do you think Kosovo's gas will come from? "American Cargo planes?" Get real man! Not only is the battle lost for Kosovo's independence but the war is lost too! There will be NO independence because the Balkans depends too much on Russian energy and who does Serbia have on their side? Also ask yourself, if America was so mighty why do you not still have independence? If it were to have happened it would have happened in May and not towards the end of the year. And by the way I GURNTEE that Canada will NOT recognize Kosovo if its done illegally unilaterally, even if the US supports it which is unlikely. Remember Bush has run out of cards to play when it comes to his congress to get support for Kosovo. He cannot use the old Weapons of Mass Destruction trick again.

I will leave wishful thinking like Arif´s above aside and rather dispaly another view from Indonesia.
it says:"Territorial integrity wins in Kosovo independence case"

http://story.malaysiasun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/b8de8e630faf3631/id/266839/cs/1/

Indonesia is one of those Countries within the UNSC that did not share the US-standpoint, all along with South Africa and China.

sorry, for those, who believed that Russia is the only one opposing this.

Ahmet Isufi, admission that Kosovo Albanians “will not honor Ahtisari package to give extra prevleages to serb minority” reminds me of the Puritans who fled Europe for America to escape religious persecution and the first thing they did was burn and persecute those in their midst who saw religion differently from them. Alpha male or Alpha female writes “their success [Serbia and Russia] is measured by antagonizing the Serbs and Albanians in Kosova, inciting hatred, setting them one against the other, poisoning the inter-ethnic environment, diminishing trust” Give me a break Ahmet and Alpha male or Alpha female antagonism is under your control. The only way forward is reconciliation and that is in the interest of the whole region. AND HERE COMES JHONNY who does not see that the major Western countries had made their decision about KOSOVO when they illegally attacked a sovereign nation by who was fighting terrorism on its territory. What Ahmet refuses to admit and ALPHA does not understand is that justice which is due to Serbia is partly outlined in Resolution 1244. Aggression has been committed against Serbia in violation of international treaties and Ahmet and Alpha propose to settle this dispute with more violations that those they support started in the first place at te same time they know full well that the only way forward is through reconciliation no matter who was at fault.

CANADIAN: ", even if Bush wanted to defy the EU he would still have to get illegal unilateral declaration of independence passed through US Congress, and that won't happen since the Congress is Democratic and not Republican."

Canadian I am surprised you didn’t add to that “ also Canadian government doesn’t support independence of Kosova,… that’s why it wont pass”.

I am the one who said it for the longest that I wish Russia vetoed UN resolution and I am glad it did. At UN the political battle of the day is won by Russia with Serbia paying the price. It seems Kostunica shold entire Serbian economy to Russian corrupted economical czars just for symbolic “veto”. It’s obvious in EU circle that Serbia in EU would be Russia’s satellite- good Luck Serbia ever gaining EU’s confidence. Now when UN gets bypassed and major powers USA and the backbone countries that comprise EU recognize independence of Kosova, Russia will be totally embarrassed and humiliated in the world stage , while Serbs will be owned by Russian “business-(mafia)-man” . I can Serbia starting to look just like Albanian in the days of Communism.

What you don’t understand Laki NY is that we have a lame duck Prime Minister (PM) that is Bush’s butler. This PM does not want 7 million French Canadians to separate and splinter Canada but he supports Kosovo independence. I am pleased on his stand on Quebec because Quebec makes Canada a richer place and that is why I speak French and my children went to French Immersion school even though we live on the West coast of Canada.

"AND HERE COMES JHONNY who does not see that the major Western countries had made their decision about KOSOVO when they illegally attacked a sovereign nation by who was fighting terrorism on its territory."

You are unable to see that if you regard as terrorists 2 million civilians and resort to ethnic cleansing by the millions and killing by the thousands of these civilians then of course the major Western countries will always make up their mind about Kosovo/a anytime be it legal or illegal.

Serbia and Russia measure success by prolonging the status limbo, and the economic misery, unemployment and the suffering of common people in Kosova, be them Albanian or Serb and by dragging the agony to the longest extent possible. Their success is measured by antagonizing the Serbs and Albanians in Kosova, inciting hatred, setting them one against the other, poisoning the inter-ethnic environment, diminishing trust.
Their success is in denying after all, the sweeping rights granted to the local Serbs under the Ahtisaari plan, and their veto power in the Parliament, rights that no minority has in Serbia.
Their success is in making the conditions of the local Serbs even more difficult, in the hope that they will leave their homes for some shabby barracks in Serbia, so that it will make it possible for the politicians in Serbia to finally play the self-assigned role of the drama queen.

Yet another defeat portrayed as a victory by the ultra radical serbian politicians like Mr.Kostunica.
Russia has no veto power in the Contact Group and therefore no leverage whatsoever.
There will be no negociations on the Independence of Kosova. The people of Kosova wont allow such negociations.

Now that the issue is outside of the disfunctional UN the Independence of Kosova is surely to follow within months.

it´s eaysily undertandable that Albanians are very critic about this and eager to present it as something bad, of course done by Serbia.
in reality Serbia stood strong with support of its important ally Russia, in order to protect the rule of international law. that´s something that a lot of states in the world will be quite happy with.

Hardly a success. You now have President Agim Ceku putting a forward a motion to declare independence on the 28th of November “Albanian Independence Day”. A provocation if ever there was one. How does one separate Kosovo from Albania when one shares the same calendar for celebrations? Serbia has missed an opportunity although an unfavorable one to finally put a nail in this coffin. From today onwards I can only see a worsening of the situation which will play out far more unfavorably for Serbia and especially it’s Kosovo Serbs.

Alfa, I must admitt that I could not have said it better. I agree with your coments 1000%. The only loosing party will be the K-Serbs, becasue we will not honor Ahtisari package to give extra prevleages to serb minority .

Failure to agree = success?!

After "mark my words:Russia will never use veto!"(what is this situation then effective veto,by the way?) now we gonna see (and read) Albanian comments here who will try to fake some positivity with things like "oh,we always hoped Russia will use veto so there is no Ahtissari plan..."
Things are clear: impotent and useless organization like EU would NEVER reach a consensus between 27 of them to recognize unilateral recognition!

Obviously this was a victory for Serbia and Russia. We GOT what we wanted. So whats so hard to understand? Resolution 1244 is still standing, while the plan for independence went in the trash bin. The move to transfer negotiations from the UN to the Contact group is just a saving face act by the U.S. and GB. (the only 2 countries in reality who are forcing the issue) All your other "allies" are just following orders from these 2. Trust me, they will only follow orders to a certain extent. The U.S. is losing every military and diplomatic battle they engage in these days and Russia just seems to be winning all of theirs. The tables are turning my friends. But unlike the U.S. the Russians will not FORCE one side to get it all while the other gets nothing. It will be fair and balanced. Kosovo and its people will rule themselves, while Serbia's territorial integrity will be respected. Preserving International Law and preventing other copy-cat conflicts from starting.

Congratulations guys, job well done. Keep up the good work!

I dont know who loses in this one. It is victory for Kostunica and a victory for Ceku who is been calling for another way rather then UN resolution.
There are somethings that people are missing here. USA is the strongest country in the world. Every other country wana be in their side. Refer to president BUSH "Kosovo will bee independent". Refer to secretary Rice "Kosovo will bee independent in one way or another" What else is other to discuss here. Russia didn't fight for Serbia in 1999 nor will fight now. They cant fight with americans. Politicly yes, but in the end what USA will say it will happen. Albanians are very lucky in this one.

I guess Serbs should get Ivanovic and replace Kostunica, cause Ivanovic is much more realistic and know very well the case, and he is right what he has said. Serbs won nothing, but Russia has lost more the credibility in the international world. Think, out of 15 countries only Russia rejected, what does that tell you?! I admire them supporting their brother Serbs regardless of the loss, but they should think will Serbia do the same if the were in the same position? Let you readers decide.
Peace to Kosovo and Serbia!
Cheers

The contact group has already made up its mind. Thanks to the US. However, What would happen if Russia leaves this group. It will become a useless tool. The fact it has Russia on it gives it the weight it has. Without them its the same countries that promoted the plan in the UN. Russia could make fun of that all they want afterwards. K-Serbs should invite Russian troops to North Kosovo to make sure no one does anything like break 1244 since KFOR is a tool.

I still cannot see how this is a victory for the Serbs. If one sees the declaration of the sponsors of the resolution it states that the new "discussions" will still be based on Ahtisari's plan which means Independence with EU in Kosovo/a. However unlike the first time now we have only the US, major EU countries and Russia playing the game. This time however Russia holds no veto power in this game, and a simple majority vote puts an end to discussions. Once these are over the US and each of the respective countries can unilaterally recognize Kosovo/a's independence. Of course it would be better for the independence to be recognized by the UN, however since now that it is clear that Russia will always veto it, then the process has moved out of it where Russia has no veto and where each country could recognize Kosovo/a by its own.
I wonder if this is the reason why the Serbs and the Russians now are asking for the final decision to be made in the UN? I wonder If somehow they fear that major western countries will make the decision on their own. It has to because how can one explain that when the final decision is taken away from the UN it is celebrated as a victory, yet propose for the decision to be taken in the UN after one day the victory was tasted. I see a contradiction here,or to use a better word fear from the west now that the western countries are closer in abandoning the UN and making the decision for recognition individually and out of the UN.
I still fail to see how this is a victory. If some Serbian posters here are kind enough to explain it to me I would appreciate it.
The way i see it is that now the West has decided not to let this issue be dragged by the Russians anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians wanted to create and maintain an open conflict in the heart of Europe. This way the EU would divided and on a weaker position when it comes to discussing important matters with Russia. There are good chances that countries such as UK, France etc. might have had this in consideration when they bypassed the UN for the Contact Group.

Nick you said >

Yet another defeat portrayed as a victory by the ultra radical Serbian politicians like Mr.Kostunica.

Nick no independence equals VICTORY! By the way most of the EU has lost interest in supporting independence in Kosovo and by November do you really think the USA will still support you. If the Americans have to choose between the EU and Kosovo which do you think they will choose? Besides, even if Bush wanted to defy the EU he would still have to get illegal unilateral declaration of independence passed through US Congress, and that won't happen since the Congress is Democratic and not Republican. Bush cannot even get the most simple bills to pass through Congress never mind something like Kosovo.

cvele, I personaly and many others like me don't care about zubin potok and leposaviq, if that is what you want i you can have it but nothing esle becaseu the rest is Kosova land belonging to Kosovar Albanians and other minorities.I must agree that leposaviq and zubin potok was always serbian.
By the way, I got some good news for all of you, here it is: US Military Base called " Monteith" was turned over on Friday to TMK the future Kosova ARMED FORCES.

This is the best news for Kostunica. He has achieved what he had hoped for, i.e. to give away Kosova without getting the blame for it. In this sense, it is a great achievement for Serbian politicians. The game is up. Even Princip has understood it because he has stopped pontificating.

Russia didn't fight for Serbia in 1999 nor will fight now. They cant fight with americans. Politicly yes, but in the end what USA will say it will happen. Albanians are very lucky in this one.
(arif pakashtica, 21. July 2007 23:24)

Arif, careful what you say, because most of your fellow Albanians also said Russia would never use a veto but obviously it turns out they would. And no my friend America is not the most powerful country in the world when it comes to the law. Because the Law will always beat force. Or look at it this way, if America is so powerful why do you not have independence yet?

In my opinion a success for Serbia would be a UN decision in favour of Serbia, or a change in the worlds opinion about Kosovo. Like this to me it is a very immature statement by the Serbia's leaders.

I will leave wishful thinking like Arif´s above aside and rather dispaly another view from Indonesia.
it says:"Territorial integrity wins in Kosovo independence case"

http://story.malaysiasun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/b8de8e630faf3631/id/266839/cs/1/

Indonesia is one of those Countries within the UNSC that did not share the US-standpoint, all along with South Africa and China.

sorry, for those, who believed that Russia is the only one opposing this.

Ahmet Isufi, admission that Kosovo Albanians “will not honor Ahtisari package to give extra prevleages to serb minority” reminds me of the Puritans who fled Europe for America to escape religious persecution and the first thing they did was burn and persecute those in their midst who saw religion differently from them. Alpha male or Alpha female writes “their success [Serbia and Russia] is measured by antagonizing the Serbs and Albanians in Kosova, inciting hatred, setting them one against the other, poisoning the inter-ethnic environment, diminishing trust” Give me a break Ahmet and Alpha male or Alpha female antagonism is under your control. The only way forward is reconciliation and that is in the interest of the whole region. AND HERE COMES JHONNY who does not see that the major Western countries had made their decision about KOSOVO when they illegally attacked a sovereign nation by who was fighting terrorism on its territory. What Ahmet refuses to admit and ALPHA does not understand is that justice which is due to Serbia is partly outlined in Resolution 1244. Aggression has been committed against Serbia in violation of international treaties and Ahmet and Alpha propose to settle this dispute with more violations that those they support started in the first place at te same time they know full well that the only way forward is through reconciliation no matter who was at fault.

CANADIAN: ", even if Bush wanted to defy the EU he would still have to get illegal unilateral declaration of independence passed through US Congress, and that won't happen since the Congress is Democratic and not Republican."

Canadian I am surprised you didn’t add to that “ also Canadian government doesn’t support independence of Kosova,… that’s why it wont pass”.

I am the one who said it for the longest that I wish Russia vetoed UN resolution and I am glad it did. At UN the political battle of the day is won by Russia with Serbia paying the price. It seems Kostunica shold entire Serbian economy to Russian corrupted economical czars just for symbolic “veto”. It’s obvious in EU circle that Serbia in EU would be Russia’s satellite- good Luck Serbia ever gaining EU’s confidence. Now when UN gets bypassed and major powers USA and the backbone countries that comprise EU recognize independence of Kosova, Russia will be totally embarrassed and humiliated in the world stage , while Serbs will be owned by Russian “business-(mafia)-man” . I can Serbia starting to look just like Albanian in the days of Communism.

What you don’t understand Laki NY is that we have a lame duck Prime Minister (PM) that is Bush’s butler. This PM does not want 7 million French Canadians to separate and splinter Canada but he supports Kosovo independence. I am pleased on his stand on Quebec because Quebec makes Canada a richer place and that is why I speak French and my children went to French Immersion school even though we live on the West coast of Canada.

"AND HERE COMES JHONNY who does not see that the major Western countries had made their decision about KOSOVO when they illegally attacked a sovereign nation by who was fighting terrorism on its territory."

You are unable to see that if you regard as terrorists 2 million civilians and resort to ethnic cleansing by the millions and killing by the thousands of these civilians then of course the major Western countries will always make up their mind about Kosovo/a anytime be it legal or illegal.

laki,

Last week Serbia and Russia signed a 1 Billion dollar natural gas pipeline to be constructed and run through Serbia to provide Central Europe and the Balkans energy. Where do you think Kosovo's gas will come from? "American Cargo planes?" Get real man! Not only is the battle lost for Kosovo's independence but the war is lost too! There will be NO independence because the Balkans depends too much on Russian energy and who does Serbia have on their side? Also ask yourself, if America was so mighty why do you not still have independence? If it were to have happened it would have happened in May and not towards the end of the year. And by the way I GURNTEE that Canada will NOT recognize Kosovo if its done illegally unilaterally, even if the US supports it which is unlikely. Remember Bush has run out of cards to play when it comes to his congress to get support for Kosovo. He cannot use the old Weapons of Mass Destruction trick again.