Henrik, why not read the UN charter first, before making a statement on how it operates. This info is readily available on the Net. just Google it. In case you are too occupied to Google this, their will be one thing standing in the way of an independent Kosovo becoming a UN member, a RUSSIAN VETO!
Get real! The Albanian people in Kosovo are surviving on less then 70 Euros per month! 70% of the population needs to make do with international hand outs. Do you really think illegal declaration of independence will improve your lives, for starters the 70% of the population that is living on the 70 Euro hand out will no longer even have that! You will be SHOCKED soon to see how support for your independence will disappear in them months to come.
Im not quite sure, but I think that if half of UN Member States recognise a country as independent, it will automatically become a member too. No one can veto that.
(henrik, 21. July 2007 09:56)
Nope,read UN charter-to become a member of the UN first sec. general sends letter to the Security council and if security council approves it(any of the permanent members has veto right on this)then it goes to the General assembly and there 2/3 of all UN countries must vote for it so new country can be addmited to the UN.So, with just one veto in the SC this all falls down!Thats how China is blocking Taiwan to become UN member for decades.Very simple!
JHam: "I am also hoping that the Kosovo should not count on the US riding to the rescue, if hostilities break out, and i am hoping it will not, don't expect support from Albania or Macedonia."
I'm also hoping that tomorrow, cherries will fall from the sky.
Great news Mr Ceku. The date however, although precious for the Albanians, may not be very important at this stage. What is important is that Kosova will be independent.
Any opinion by Serb or pro-Serb posters here does not change anything and is irrelevant. They are entitled to their view of the world and we to ours. Over and out.
Im not quite sure, but I think that if half of UN Member States recognise a country as independent, it will automatically become a member too. No one can veto that.
PB: "Like the Basque region, Kosovo has NEVER been nothing more than an administrative region."
Really?
Kosova is under UN and self administration recognized by a UN resolution, where Serbia's laws do not apply and where Serbia's government doesn't have a say on anything whatsoever, where the highest Serbian officials need special permission to enter its territory, and where Serbia's army if it had to enter would constitute an act of aggression under International Law. Kosova has it's own separate Parliament, Government, President, Constitutional framework and Legal system - quite different from Serbia's, it's own Police Force, National Guard (TMK) in addition to the International Police and KFOR, its currency is different from Serbia's, it has a different country code, customs and revenue service, educational system, postal service, license plates, etc, etc. All of which accepted internationally.
If that looks like nothing more than an administrative region to you, then I congratulate you on your fantasy.
Serbia's sovereignty over Kosova is merely nominal at best, and even that is legally unclear and contested by the local majority, since the document regulating Kosova's current international status, does not even once mentions Serbia, but a now defunct entity and makes no provision for automatic inheritance of such sovereignty. In fact, more than anything Serbia's claim of sovereignty is self-proclaimed and not explicitly stated in any document.
"All the Albanians that live in the province will cease to be legal citizens of Serbia on November 29th. Many of them are whether we like it or not"
They ceased to be "full-fledged", "legal" citizens of Serbia when the Serbian state denied them the right to vote for a constitution which the Serbian government claims it applies to the citizens with Albanian ethnicity.
To answer the reason why not declare independence now.
1.US, UK, France, Italy etc. want some more time to show that there can be no real negotiations when Serbs are involved. So they are asking the Albanians to wait for a couple of months, attend these meetings where nothing new will happen. After all this nothing has happened then in the contact group they'll tell Russia:" We told you can't negotiate and achieve results with the Serbs. They refused Ahtisari, they refused every single resolution, now they refused this. Since you're the mouthpiece of the Serbs in the UN, we will recognize them out of the UN where you have no veto power and cannot do anything to stop us from recognizing" After that the US will give its ok to Prishtina.
Some say it will be like northen Cyprus which it won't since unlike them this new state will be recognized by some of the most developed countries in the world. Also unlike them, if Serbia ever wants to join the UN it better agree with the major EU countries. But even if it ended up like Northern Cyprus, its still better than being under Serbia. Every K-Albanian here will tell you that. Serbia has destroyed once and for all the social contract it had with K-Albanians. That is a reason enough for K-Albanians not to be ruled by Serbia again, even if that "rule" is polished with empty phrases such as "widest", and "broadest" autonomy ever.
Now that the Kosovo independence bid failed at the UN, Ceku's announcement can be considered as a grave interference in Serbian internal affairs. It is not more than another UCK terrorist act by the puppet regime in Pristina. If the Albanian minority in Serbia makes such a move, than all the minorities should be allowed to do the same. What is good for Serbia now, is that the independence issue has no legal ground under the internatinal law and the UN framework. Furthermore, all the other unilateral recognitions have no solid ground and can also be considered as the breach of international law. In case Pristina declares independence, Serbs in Kosovo should automatically block this decision and isolate themselves from the Albanian foreign sponsored regime in the province. On the other hand,since the Resolution 1244 is still valid, Serbia should strongly demand the return of 200,000 refugees to Kosovo,
to prevent the humanitarian disaster provoked by the Albanians in the Province. Come to think of it, wasn't this the key argument for NATO intervention. Why doesn't NATO act now, to preserve the interests of the Serbs in Kosovo? It doesn't because it is in Kosovo illegally, by force, and is supporting the Albanian side.
My issue is the way in which Kosovo achieves its indepedence. Do it legally and maturely, and you will have the majority of the international community not only supporting you, but also supporting your state's institutions. Do it unilaterally and against international law and most of the states that do support your independence efforts will pull much of their aid. Plus, I have not seen any serious efforts by either Pristina or the international community to reintegrate northern Kosovo with the rest. At best, and independent Kosovo will most likely have to accomodate a considerable degree of autonomy, if not outright separatism at the Ibar. Just as Serbian rule is non-existant in Albanian parts of Kosovo, so too is Albanian rule in the Serbian sectors.
Laki, the countries you listed have certainly lent their support to an independent Kosovo, but so far as it is realized through legal channels. If Ceku wants to not wait any longer and go against all the advice of his international supporters, he'll quickly find how much of that support evaporates.
I am hoping that cooler heads will prevail coming up to November. I am also hoping that the Kosovo should not count on the US riding to the rescue, if hostilities break out, and i am hoping it will not, don't expect support from Albania or Macedonia. They are trying to get into NATO and the EU. Like i said, i am hoping for cooler heads to prevail if not then it will be another 1999 fiasco which the US won't come to this party there hands are full in Iraq and Afganistan. I am sure they will be some who say i am pro Serb and yes that opinion is your but this is realistic thinking. thanks
Destan, I almost forgot to add, while partition would be the easiest and most logical solution to this entire problem, I am still hesitant to accept it, especially if 2/3 of K Serbs are living south of the Ibar. They will undoubtedly be pressured to move north, effectively clearing out any remaining Serb presence in Kosovo.
I accept the impending independence of Kosovo, but according to the following stipulations:
a) legal recognition through the UN, which means giving in to some of Russia's demands for the sake of the greater outcome
b) confederated state proportionately designed to reflect the 90:10 ratio of Albanians to Serbs, but high decentralization to each community
What I am against my country doing is the apparent ramming though a resolution that has little chance of passing in the UN, and being just as stubborn to compromise and accomodation to the opposing side as the Serbs and Russians.
Kosovo can not return to Serbia, whoever thinks that it is still a possibility is not reading the news.
If the transition of Kosovo to statehood is not done through UN and EU, Serbs in Kosovo will suffer the most as they would still be part of a Kosovo rife with Albanians in a "state" recognized by US and western European big players such as UK, Germany and France but not regulated and scrutinized as it would be if it is recognized in UN.
The only solution in the Balkans for a long lasting peace is through creating once and for all ethnic pure states, through existing ethnic lines.
well, this IS bright news, and having just been sent a related e-article from a friend, i am simply smiling from ear to ear. i will refrain (for today) from responding to the "other side", and just say "congratulations!!" for kosovo/a, for kosovar albanians, for all kosovars, and for freedom-loving people everywhere. congratulations and mazel-tov. this may not have been the exact route i would have chosen, but it appears to be the only option left, and i support it, and have already alloted it a chapter for our forthcoming book.
I'm very glad that someone after Rugova is insisting so much in Independence, which is has the support of US. The visit of Ceku and Surroi to US is just a visit to commit something to US in turn of their recognition of Kosova independence.
What I, as Kosova Albanian, do not like in all this is that Kosova politiciants intend to implement Ahtisari plan. I do not see any reason, since it was not accepted by UN SC. Therefore we should go in full independence.
I don't understand what you Albanians are so excited about. This isn't the first time you've unilaterally declared independence from Serbia. What happened to the Kacanik declaration of 1990, or the referendum you had in 1991?
Now that there isn't going to be a new resolution in the Security Council, Resolution 1244 is the final word on Kosovo.
As far as the UN, and the international organizations, are concerned Kosovo is a province of Serbia -- end of discussion.
You Albanians can declare your independence tomorrow and the United States, Albania, and a handfull of EU and Islamic countries might recognize you, but the UN, the international organizations, and the rest of the world aren't going to.
Kosovo won't have a final status. It will have a disputed status, and nobody is going to invest in a disputed territory.
A good deal is when both sides feel they have gained and lost something. I agree with Destan, partition is the best way. What do the Albanians want with the monasteries and the north and why would the Serbs be interested in keeping the south with it's problems apart from stubborness. Let's get on with improving the lives of the people and stop using them as pawns.
Laki - I put the question straight back to you. How many basque people do you know? do you live in Spain? How can you comment then on the proportion of the basque population who want independence?
My comparison was relevant for one good reason. Like the Basque region, Kosovo has NEVER been nothing more than an administrative region. Croatia and Montenegro were countries previously in their own right. Kosovo never was.
Though I have liked some of your previous comments, you are absolutely wrong on this one. The sollution can't be reached in UN if Russia is there to reject every proposal. The moment US, EU recognizes unilateral Independence, I doubt they'd allow north of Ibar to remain as lawless as it is. And they will definetly not allow Serbian dinar or Serbian registration plates on Kosova's soil. You've said many times, that you have no blood connection to Serbs, but your convictions seem to be as strong as Kostunica's, especially, when you are ready to badmouth your own country (USA) for Serbia. I am an Albanian American and don't hide it, and have called for a fair partition for the sake of peace.
Mike: " Every credible organization on the planet has made it abundantly clear that there will be NO support for unilateral declarations,.. "
Mike which planetary system you live, I can guarantee you that everyone who reads news objectively knows that USA, UK , Germany, France, Denmark, Holland, Italy would be leading countries that will recognize independence of Kosova. You certainly are ignoring reality- its a know fact for your culture.
Kreshnik Bejko, sorry to burst your bubble, but what you wrote cotradicts the facts:
1) Kosovars are NOT a 'people' thus they are NOT invested with the right to self-determination. Kosovo ALBANIANS are ethnic minority, like Hungarians in Vojvodina or Serbs in Hungary.
"Kosovar" do not exist as an ethnic group. "Kosovar"
mean Kosovan in Shqip and all citizens of Kosovo are "Kosovar", i.e. Serbs, Shqip, Roma. If K-Albanians DENY others the right to be Kosovans, it is an act of open racism.
2) They (Kosovo Albanians) did not have the right right to self-determination so It could not be "trampled by Yugoslavia."
Sqhiptars were NATIONAL MINORITY in Yugoslabia and National minorities have no right of Self-Determination.
After 1974 Kosovo was granted broad autonomy and Kosovo Albanian communists misused it in every way they could to detriment of all non-Albanians living in Kosovo. IMF requested that this plunder has to stop and broad autonomy was revoked by YUGOSLAV PRESIDENCY (Not "Serbia" as propaganda line goes).
3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated BUT Serbia is a successor. Kosovo remain SERBIAN province as it was before. Read UNSEC #1244.
4) Kosovo was NOT a constituent part of Yugoslavia. Constituent parts of Yugoslavia were
5 peoples (1943-1963)and 6 republics (after 1963).
Ergo: Kosovo DID NOT have a say in the Badinter commission.
As of November 28, november 29 will come after that and Sun will rise in the east.
Even Kosova Serbs think that independence is a good thing for them too. The only people who seem to oppose it are 'the Greater Serbia' demagogues commenting in the B92 site.
Sorry, PB but I think that your comparison with the Basques is completely off the mark. Whatever their historical/legal claim for statehood, the Basques are a people that don't have a country. The Albanians do. It's called Albania.
PB : "We'll see how Spain responds when ETA resumes it's war."
PB and all others alike like you stop creating this artificial analogy between Basque’s in Spain and Albanians in Kosova. How many of you ever spoke to any Spaniards of Basque origin?!?! First only small Basque population desire independence, majority of Basques , especially young generation are very comfortable being citizens of Spain. Also there are some other Serbian posters who when present their opinions to make it look as a stronger argument, take liberty to claim that their personal belief reflect foreign policies of their respective country that they reside. Sorry mr CANADIAN but Canada is pro USA and it wont EVER question their relationship with USA. Also FYI I went o CANADA with UNMIK passport, and nobody ever questioned me; this is also for mr DENMARK guy who once in a while talks as he is Denmark’s representative I visited CPH a lot with UNMIK passport and don’t try to portray western countries as pro Serbian.
Dobrica Cosic -'Lying is a form of our patriotism and is evidence of our innate intellegence. We lie in a creative, imaginative and inventive way'
- North Kosovo will never stay if South declares independence leading to a conflict
- As unlikely as it is for Belgrade to use military, I see it even less likely that Americans will send 30000 troops to protect them if things go violent
- KFOR will leave or will be there for a LONG LONG LONG time, and who will be willing to pay their bills
- This was probably the dumbest comment ever by cecku as it shows they are not willing to hold serious talks and with that placing any future blame on the albans
- If they invite the EU and declare unilateral independence, EU has clearly stated they will not be touching this situation without a clear mandate (meaning UN resolution)
- I still dare US to recognize them since then they will not be able to say anything when Russia does the same in Moldova and in Georgia (which the Russians are desperately hoping for)
A lot of Serbs here think they have this thing called "International Law" on their side.
Well, international law is made of non-binding principles which sometimes contradict each other. In a court of law Kosovo would win the right to seceede based on two simple facts enshrined in this 'international law':
1) Kosovars are a 'people' thus they are invested with the right to self-determination
2) their right to self-determination has been trampled by Yugoslavia.
3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated
4) Kosovo was a constituent part of Yugoslavia
Ergo: Kosovo should have had a say in the Badinter Commission which blew it but allowing the situation to fester this way.
Either way, the situation will be rectified on Nov 28, 2007
So it looks like there will be no change in the future then. Kosovo will declare independence which will have no legality, even if the US recognises it, which it probably will. The Eu will not recognise it, only certain member states.
The real question is what will happen in the north. The Albanians will try to claim this as well but i'm sure the Serbs will resist if the Albanians try to tkae the area by force, so I think it will end up as a de-facto partition as the US will not want to get bogged down by another war in the Balkans, even if they are not fighting it.
So, unless the natioalists like Afrim Hoaxer take up arms and try to take it by force, nothing in reality will change!
Speaking of dates, let's not forget November 28 1942 - the date when Serbian Orthodox priests Cedomir Bacanin and Tihomir Popovic were executed in Kosovska Mitrovica prison and when the orgy of murder and expulsions of Serbs from Kosovo province by Albanians was well under way.
Interesting that somebody has mentioned Skanderbeg and Kruja which, during the Second World War would, respectively, later become the name of an Albanian Nazi SS Division and the latter being the surname of Mustafa Kruja, the murderous fascist Prime Minister of a Greater Albania.
And if independence is such a "done deal", why wait until November??
Ceku is fishing for world opinion to see what the response will be to his announcement.
Good luck to the Albanians in the southern part of Kosovo if you get independence. I'm sure many other people around the world won't be so generous though as this will set a precedent which many other separatists will use as justification.
We'll see how Spain responds when ETA resumes it's war.
Why does this joker even continue to govern a breakaway state? Why does my country continue to support what amounts to a warlord in a suit? And most importantly, why do all the Albanians on this site suddenly think November 28 is going to give them their de facto demands just because Ceku said so? Every credible organization on the planet has made it abundantly clear that there will be NO support for unilateral declarations, and that all channels of negotiations will go through the UN. Yet every day, this bloke thinks he, as not even an Albanian, but a K-Albanian, a leader of a shadow government within a non-recognized parastate, can somehow defy international law, and even go against the suggestions of his biggest supporters and monetary benefactors. This guy is just as crazy and delusional as Seselj. And how nice to make it November 28, like an Albanian Vidovdan.
And for people like Agim who still think that after 8 years they are somehow going to take control of Serb-held territories, just TRY to cross the Ibar on November 28 and celebrate. Just TRY to forcibly annex the Serb-held territories of Kosovo your government does not, and will never control. Put aside your delusions of gradeur and look at the situation with more realistic eyes.
PB = We dont Ceku has been told so and it will happen. And the US will try to mold its relations with Russia but the fine line is that Kosova will be indepandant.
It never ceases to amaze me how this chap feels he can do what he wishes - he's setting up the providence for another battle.
Additionally, everyone has comments about the US, but fails to look at the taxpayers - what do you think of that? All the hardworking people of the States footing money for criminals - guess nothing has changed.
It is not surprising that Nehat Krasniqi writes that “Their is no reason why we should live with a system that tried to burn the Albanian Kosovars out their homes” Usually pyromaniacs that start the fires killing of people in cafés, postmen delivering mail, and policemen given tickets on the highway blame others for the fires that they start and than they kill firemen who try to put the fire out. Nehat forgets that the main ingredient of any fire is the lighting of the match.
Kreshnik - You are quite wrong in your 'legal' cases:
"1) Kosovars are a 'people' thus they are invested with the right to self-determination" - no, that's not the case. People have individual rights; only nations have rights to sovereign ownership.
"2) their right to self-determination has been trampled by Yugoslavia." - The conflict ended before the existing resolution was written, therefore this is not relevant. And since 1999 there certainly has been no trampling of rights, except by Albanians on the minorities there.
"3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated" - Irrelevant, especially as Kosovo is a province and not a state.
4) "Kosovo was a constituent part of Yugoslavia" - Kosovo was and remains a province of Serbia, not a state in its own right.
So, no, in a real legal situation there would be no grounds for independence.
If there was a national referendum it would have to include the whole of Serbia, and even with 90% in Kosovo there would be no nationwide support for independence.
"lowe, every single inch of Kosova will be a part of celebration, dont even dream otherwise because your dreams will not become true. With the blessings of the west and especially of USA and UK, Kosova will be Independent. USA during 1999 was able to protect every single inch of Kosova and will be able to protect it also now.
THere is no other way but a complete independent Kosova without even an inch of it missing.
Like it or not, this is the reality.
(Afrim Hoxha, 20. July 2007 13:00) "
You are the one who is dreaming if you think the Serb majority north is going to accept your declaration with open arms. You never controlled the north and so it is absurd to expect the north to be suddenly handed to you on a silver platter come November.
You are dreaming even more if you expect Nato to risk World War 3 to fight the north on your behalf ..... why? .... the reason is simple ..... you can't claim that K-Albanians are being killed today -- that was Nato's reason for intervening back in 1999.
So by all means celebrate in Pristina come November but you will have to write off the north in a de facto partition. Don't forget that this declaration of independence will also not be valid to the UN and 1244 will still apply there -- this is another reason not to expect Nato inflame matters by fighting the K-Serbs for you.
I wouldnt be so sure about this statement because a Russian veto is about to come into play.
The Albanians think that the US is God and will grant the noble Albanians who have been in Kosova for 100s of years a new country which will be prosperous.
The reality is unfortunatly:
Kosovo has only since WW2 had a Albanian majority.
Kosovo has been under Albanian leadership for many decades already.
The Serbs in Kosovo have been expelled from their homes and continue to be killed/expelled.
The Albanian leadership consists of ex-KLA terrorists.
The US has very little or no interest in Kosovo without the economic implications.
Kosovo will not prosper or be able to with a Russian veto. I.e the US will be the sole provider of funds to Kosova.
It's about the time. Land swap was an option that could have brought a long lasting peace. But if US is set to be in Kosova this century, then, Kosova will survive and prosper as it is.
November 28th i will put this on my calendar to remind me to see what is going to happen i am sure after Mr Ceku made this annoucement the EU and US are scrambling to put a good spin on the story.
I am an EU expert working in Kosovo with several PISG minitsries preparing them for the eventual full management of Kosovo. First, independence is a de facto reality. We all know this. The delays with the UNSC are all about the 'grand game' that the imperial powers have always exercised over the Balkans.
In fact this could go either way. I can easily imaging that Mitrovica north will (if they haven't already) make immediate preparations to declare a form of "No-Go" area after 28th November if there is no UN settlement. This will create another de facto mini-state within the professed borders of the new Kosovo. It will be ralatively easy for them to be supported 'unofficially' by Serbia, even while the Beograd government fights UDI through diplomatic channels. (I do not expect a military action by Beograd whatever happens).
This situation resolves nothing, and creats unstability for years to come in Kosovo. Believe me, you do not need this. If the new Kosovo is to have an economic future, you need a peaceful transfer of power, and not further years of strife.
On the other hand, maybe this declaration is what is needed to stimulate the internationals to make a decision. Call Russia's bluff, or to intensify nefgotiations with Ceku and Beograd for form an acceptable compromise. IF there is compromise on both sides, a peaceful resolution is possible. It is in both Serbia's and Kosovo's interests to settle this amicably.
Of course, give the immediate history, this will be hard. there are dead on all sides, there is tragety on all sides, there is hate and distrust on all sides. It needs brave political leaders to take both countries on a better path.
War is not inevitable, but I fear it is a real possibility if common sense does not prevail on 28th November.
I agree with Louie on the point he made: let´s not be childish!
Serbia won´t have food shortages this winter, that´s probably something the Albanians are told in their "newspapers", but reality is different.
and what is just more amusing: an Albanian, even one with a last name of slavic origin is trying to sell us again this nonsense about the illyrian descent...
ceku is doing what he can to stay "credible", not more.
he will probably go somewhere else with his croatian wife and laugh while spending the UNMIK-money he stole from the k-albanians.
Peter,
It is funny to see how you are holding on the Russian veto like a drowning man to the last staw.
I am waiting for that Russian veto for months. The UN demonstrated in the last 50 years that it is a completely useless institution. It just waist time and a lot of money (US is the biggest contributor). It is a place, where second class regional powers like France or now Russia try to show that they are more important than the world really see them.
Russia was bypassed, ignored during the bombing of Serbia in 1999 and also in 2003, when Irak was invaded. It can be bypassed and humiliated again. It is hight time to do it to put the Russians in their proper place.
@lazer (A Tesla invention, btw)
Worst possible move. Bearing in mind that new Serbian EU travel documents are coming out in March, I wonder how thousands of Albanians will feel about Agim singlehandedly renouncing everyone's entitlement to Serbian citizenship. All the Albanians that live in the province will cease to be legal citizens of Serbia on November 29th. Many of them are whether we like it or not which is why even today they use their entitlement to Serbian health care on a regular basis. In addition to this, membership of international bodies will be impossible: no UN seat obviously but also the ridiculous notion of a "Kosova" being part of UEFA and other sporting institutions will finally be laid to rest. It will be a carbon copy of Cyprus which Lavrov hinted at on several occasions. This suits Serbia far more than the Albanians and brings some kind of freeze on the situation with no financial burden or legal obligation towards the Albanians when the time comes for Serbia to restore sovereignity over her province. Enjoy the celebration, just make sure that the fireworks don't set off any of Agim's KLA arms caches.
By the way,what happened with Ahmet???I need to mark his words again about Russian veto!:-)So,thanks to Russia:no seat in UN for Kosovo,no IMF,no World bank,no OSCE,no Council of Europe,no FIFA,no UEFA....no Eurosong too!And new,"independent" KosovA will be something like northern Cyprus...good luck,you gonna need it!
Hi from a very sunny Prishtina. Looks like the weather is the only thing that we are sharing with Serbia.
Just another statement from a politician. By now I have learned that politicians can turn their statements around very quickly. So, I wont be surprised if I hear something different tomorrow. Mr. Ceku has done nothing different from the other politicians.
This statement should not be seen as threatening to any Serb. If Ahtisari plan is respected than K-Serbs would be the only minority in the planet with such rights.
I think that Serbs should stop listening to Belgrade( like my colleague has done) and start integrating to new Kosova. There is future for all, especially for Serbs in Independent Kosova.
I am not correcting anyone here but Kosova/o's PM said "should" and he didn't set yet the date.It is an important date,but this is only his proposal.
I was waiting for something like this for some time now.
All day we are hearing promises from US,on the other side we have veto veto veto,Serbian Government are always saying that they won't accept Kosova'o as a new country,so it was about time somebody from Kosova/o Government to say something.
I am still for partition even though some of you won't agree with me,but in here we are to express ourselves and not necessary to agree on everything.
The main thing is we should talk,listen,advice each other without childlish remarks.I think we all like to write comments in here as for both sides Kosova/o is important so lets not spoilt it.
Cheerio!
The full responsibility for such a statement made by Mr.Ceku is to be relayed exclusively upon the USA, the UK and a small number of some other EU states - simply because they have incited this gentleman to do so.
This is the attitude that is needed. If the UNSC is being blocked by one stubborn nation, you need to show what you think of such attitude and go around it. Kosovo wants independence and it should try to get it with any means necessary, especially with all the support it has now. Once the independence is secured, another chapter in the blunders of Yugoslav/Serbian politics can finally be closed.
Serbia should get the act together or there will be food shortages over this winter. Us still controls th IMF and the World Bank. Lets not forget that.
(lazer, 20. July 2007 13:30)
It seems lazer is trying to be funny,lol.Serbia doesn't need IMF anymore,it returned all debt to IMF!And National banks currency reserves are biggest in history-13 billion $,so don't worry about Serbia ,better worry about electricity and water shortages in Kosovo!
Guess where the latest American troops went? In the North boarder...! for all those doubting... KATE its true that the US does not severity rights to Kosova!!! but they are our closest allies and we have chosen to be friend with them as the US leads the way to democracy and not tyranny unlike some other world powers... The will of the people has determined boarders since ancient Greek times and they will continue to do so (LET ALONE THE ALBANIAN HAVE LIVED IN THE REGION SCINCE ILIRIAN TIMES)... Their is no reason why we should live with a system that tried to burn the Albanian Kosovars out their homes.. Kosova in my opinion will be independent and Agim Ceku a former General in the Croation Army who He helped to update the doctrine and tactics of the Croatian Army and successful Operation Maestral that prompted peace deals, he knows exactly what he is talking about, the US HAS OBVIOUSLY ASKED HIM TO DECLARE.
Caligula can proclaim his horse is a senator too, just like Ceku can proclaim that greater albania will exist. Without UN approval, his proclamations mean nothing. The threat of violence is the only card that the albanians hold, while the Serbian side holds international law, truth and justice on their side. Ceku is showing the world his true face, and his proclamation will only serve to damage their cause.
Afrim - Kosovo isn't part of US sovereign territory, and they would be very unwise to act outside of the UN. It would have major ramifications around the world.
An illegal declaration of independence leads to huge problems for many years to come, and never delivers full independence (even if the US does stick to its word).
Iowe is absolutely right that such a declaration would lead to immediate partition, possibly even war. Why would you celebrate that??
As lowe asked it:why don't you declare it tomorrow?Why waiting till November? Maybe,like Ahmet,you still belive Russia wil not use veto?:-)So,show your guts-declare independence now!
It is good step from Ceku and in this way Russia will have excuse to say that look we have done are best but came the other way.I still think Cecu was advised to take this step by high powers.
November 28th is an Albanian Independence Declaration, in 1912 they got rid of the Turkish occupiers, who were there almost 500 years, this time they are getting rid of Serbian occupation.
Congratulations!!!
Hopefully this will start sticking in some of the hot-heads that power of the US and support for freedoms and self-determination of the people struggling around the world is paramount.
Serbia should get the act together or there will be food shortages over this winter. Us still controls th IMF and the World Bank. Lets not forget that.
Nov. 28th, is obviously very common date for Albnaians decisioms of different kinds. I like it. But who recognized Albanians as the nation allowed to make anything they like, and not to the other nations in the world.
Full support to Serbian approach.
lowe, every single inch of Kosova will be a part of celebration, dont even dream otherwise because your dreams will not become true. With the blessings of the west and especially of USA and UK, Kosova will be Independent. USA during 1999 was able to protect every single inch of Kosova and will be able to protect it also now.
THere is no other way but a complete independent Kosova without even an inch of it missing.
Like it or not, this is the reality.
Predictable move from the KLA warlord done primarily for his own self-preservation. It is looking more and more like they are opting for the Cyprus scenario: total limbo. The Serbs in the north of the province will not be isolated but for the Serbian citizens that live in enclaves south of the Ibar, it will be very tough living in a self-proclaimed, 90% muslim state. The Serbian governement must do everything in its power to help them, including moving them north if necessary.
In response to this statement Serbia should:1)ask Russia's military broad assistance; 2)adopt a strongly-worded resolution by its Parliament;3) ask the UNO, EU and NATO do denounce this statement as a provocative one. An advice to Mr.Ceku: withdraw your statement it is not too late.
Very clever Agim, you have set a date which is far enough away to give yourself time to liquidate you assets and transfer them to Cyprus, but not so far away that the K.Alb plebisite won't get despondentand act precipitously. Of course the whole unilateral biz is laughable and this declaration will keep me chuckling all weekend.
lowe, every single inch of Kosova will be a part of celebration, dont even dream otherwise because your dreams will not become true. With the blessings of the west and especially of USA and UK, Kosova will be Independent. USA during 1999 was able to protect every single inch of Kosova and will be able to protect it also now.
THere is no other way but a complete independent Kosova without even an inch of it missing.
Like it or not, this is the reality.
Serbia should get the act together or there will be food shortages over this winter. Us still controls th IMF and the World Bank. Lets not forget that.
(lazer, 20. July 2007 13:30)
It seems lazer is trying to be funny,lol.Serbia doesn't need IMF anymore,it returned all debt to IMF!And National banks currency reserves are biggest in history-13 billion $,so don't worry about Serbia ,better worry about electricity and water shortages in Kosovo!
Very clever Agim, you have set a date which is far enough away to give yourself time to liquidate you assets and transfer them to Cyprus, but not so far away that the K.Alb plebisite won't get despondentand act precipitously. Of course the whole unilateral biz is laughable and this declaration will keep me chuckling all weekend.
By the way,what happened with Ahmet???I need to mark his words again about Russian veto!:-)So,thanks to Russia:no seat in UN for Kosovo,no IMF,no World bank,no OSCE,no Council of Europe,no FIFA,no UEFA....no Eurosong too!And new,"independent" KosovA will be something like northern Cyprus...good luck,you gonna need it!
In response to this statement Serbia should:1)ask Russia's military broad assistance; 2)adopt a strongly-worded resolution by its Parliament;3) ask the UNO, EU and NATO do denounce this statement as a provocative one. An advice to Mr.Ceku: withdraw your statement it is not too late.
Caligula can proclaim his horse is a senator too, just like Ceku can proclaim that greater albania will exist. Without UN approval, his proclamations mean nothing. The threat of violence is the only card that the albanians hold, while the Serbian side holds international law, truth and justice on their side. Ceku is showing the world his true face, and his proclamation will only serve to damage their cause.
As lowe asked it:why don't you declare it tomorrow?Why waiting till November? Maybe,like Ahmet,you still belive Russia wil not use veto?:-)So,show your guts-declare independence now!
Afrim - Kosovo isn't part of US sovereign territory, and they would be very unwise to act outside of the UN. It would have major ramifications around the world.
An illegal declaration of independence leads to huge problems for many years to come, and never delivers full independence (even if the US does stick to its word).
Iowe is absolutely right that such a declaration would lead to immediate partition, possibly even war. Why would you celebrate that??
Guess where the latest American troops went? In the North boarder...! for all those doubting... KATE its true that the US does not severity rights to Kosova!!! but they are our closest allies and we have chosen to be friend with them as the US leads the way to democracy and not tyranny unlike some other world powers... The will of the people has determined boarders since ancient Greek times and they will continue to do so (LET ALONE THE ALBANIAN HAVE LIVED IN THE REGION SCINCE ILIRIAN TIMES)... Their is no reason why we should live with a system that tried to burn the Albanian Kosovars out their homes.. Kosova in my opinion will be independent and Agim Ceku a former General in the Croation Army who He helped to update the doctrine and tactics of the Croatian Army and successful Operation Maestral that prompted peace deals, he knows exactly what he is talking about, the US HAS OBVIOUSLY ASKED HIM TO DECLARE.
@lazer (A Tesla invention, btw)
Worst possible move. Bearing in mind that new Serbian EU travel documents are coming out in March, I wonder how thousands of Albanians will feel about Agim singlehandedly renouncing everyone's entitlement to Serbian citizenship. All the Albanians that live in the province will cease to be legal citizens of Serbia on November 29th. Many of them are whether we like it or not which is why even today they use their entitlement to Serbian health care on a regular basis. In addition to this, membership of international bodies will be impossible: no UN seat obviously but also the ridiculous notion of a "Kosova" being part of UEFA and other sporting institutions will finally be laid to rest. It will be a carbon copy of Cyprus which Lavrov hinted at on several occasions. This suits Serbia far more than the Albanians and brings some kind of freeze on the situation with no financial burden or legal obligation towards the Albanians when the time comes for Serbia to restore sovereignity over her province. Enjoy the celebration, just make sure that the fireworks don't set off any of Agim's KLA arms caches.
Speaking of dates, let's not forget November 28 1942 - the date when Serbian Orthodox priests Cedomir Bacanin and Tihomir Popovic were executed in Kosovska Mitrovica prison and when the orgy of murder and expulsions of Serbs from Kosovo province by Albanians was well under way.
Interesting that somebody has mentioned Skanderbeg and Kruja which, during the Second World War would, respectively, later become the name of an Albanian Nazi SS Division and the latter being the surname of Mustafa Kruja, the murderous fascist Prime Minister of a Greater Albania.
November 28th is an Albanian Independence Declaration, in 1912 they got rid of the Turkish occupiers, who were there almost 500 years, this time they are getting rid of Serbian occupation.
Congratulations!!!
Hopefully this will start sticking in some of the hot-heads that power of the US and support for freedoms and self-determination of the people struggling around the world is paramount.
Serbia should get the act together or there will be food shortages over this winter. Us still controls th IMF and the World Bank. Lets not forget that.
I agree with Louie on the point he made: let´s not be childish!
Serbia won´t have food shortages this winter, that´s probably something the Albanians are told in their "newspapers", but reality is different.
and what is just more amusing: an Albanian, even one with a last name of slavic origin is trying to sell us again this nonsense about the illyrian descent...
ceku is doing what he can to stay "credible", not more.
he will probably go somewhere else with his croatian wife and laugh while spending the UNMIK-money he stole from the k-albanians.
Kreshnik - You are quite wrong in your 'legal' cases:
"1) Kosovars are a 'people' thus they are invested with the right to self-determination" - no, that's not the case. People have individual rights; only nations have rights to sovereign ownership.
"2) their right to self-determination has been trampled by Yugoslavia." - The conflict ended before the existing resolution was written, therefore this is not relevant. And since 1999 there certainly has been no trampling of rights, except by Albanians on the minorities there.
"3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated" - Irrelevant, especially as Kosovo is a province and not a state.
4) "Kosovo was a constituent part of Yugoslavia" - Kosovo was and remains a province of Serbia, not a state in its own right.
So, no, in a real legal situation there would be no grounds for independence.
If there was a national referendum it would have to include the whole of Serbia, and even with 90% in Kosovo there would be no nationwide support for independence.
Why does this joker even continue to govern a breakaway state? Why does my country continue to support what amounts to a warlord in a suit? And most importantly, why do all the Albanians on this site suddenly think November 28 is going to give them their de facto demands just because Ceku said so? Every credible organization on the planet has made it abundantly clear that there will be NO support for unilateral declarations, and that all channels of negotiations will go through the UN. Yet every day, this bloke thinks he, as not even an Albanian, but a K-Albanian, a leader of a shadow government within a non-recognized parastate, can somehow defy international law, and even go against the suggestions of his biggest supporters and monetary benefactors. This guy is just as crazy and delusional as Seselj. And how nice to make it November 28, like an Albanian Vidovdan.
And for people like Agim who still think that after 8 years they are somehow going to take control of Serb-held territories, just TRY to cross the Ibar on November 28 and celebrate. Just TRY to forcibly annex the Serb-held territories of Kosovo your government does not, and will never control. Put aside your delusions of gradeur and look at the situation with more realistic eyes.
Nov. 28th, is obviously very common date for Albnaians decisioms of different kinds. I like it. But who recognized Albanians as the nation allowed to make anything they like, and not to the other nations in the world.
Full support to Serbian approach.
"lowe, every single inch of Kosova will be a part of celebration, dont even dream otherwise because your dreams will not become true. With the blessings of the west and especially of USA and UK, Kosova will be Independent. USA during 1999 was able to protect every single inch of Kosova and will be able to protect it also now.
THere is no other way but a complete independent Kosova without even an inch of it missing.
Like it or not, this is the reality.
(Afrim Hoxha, 20. July 2007 13:00) "
You are the one who is dreaming if you think the Serb majority north is going to accept your declaration with open arms. You never controlled the north and so it is absurd to expect the north to be suddenly handed to you on a silver platter come November.
You are dreaming even more if you expect Nato to risk World War 3 to fight the north on your behalf ..... why? .... the reason is simple ..... you can't claim that K-Albanians are being killed today -- that was Nato's reason for intervening back in 1999.
So by all means celebrate in Pristina come November but you will have to write off the north in a de facto partition. Don't forget that this declaration of independence will also not be valid to the UN and 1244 will still apply there -- this is another reason not to expect Nato inflame matters by fighting the K-Serbs for you.
And if independence is such a "done deal", why wait until November??
Ceku is fishing for world opinion to see what the response will be to his announcement.
Good luck to the Albanians in the southern part of Kosovo if you get independence. I'm sure many other people around the world won't be so generous though as this will set a precedent which many other separatists will use as justification.
We'll see how Spain responds when ETA resumes it's war.
Kreshnik Bejko, sorry to burst your bubble, but what you wrote cotradicts the facts:
1) Kosovars are NOT a 'people' thus they are NOT invested with the right to self-determination. Kosovo ALBANIANS are ethnic minority, like Hungarians in Vojvodina or Serbs in Hungary.
"Kosovar" do not exist as an ethnic group. "Kosovar"
mean Kosovan in Shqip and all citizens of Kosovo are "Kosovar", i.e. Serbs, Shqip, Roma. If K-Albanians DENY others the right to be Kosovans, it is an act of open racism.
2) They (Kosovo Albanians) did not have the right right to self-determination so It could not be "trampled by Yugoslavia."
Sqhiptars were NATIONAL MINORITY in Yugoslabia and National minorities have no right of Self-Determination.
After 1974 Kosovo was granted broad autonomy and Kosovo Albanian communists misused it in every way they could to detriment of all non-Albanians living in Kosovo. IMF requested that this plunder has to stop and broad autonomy was revoked by YUGOSLAV PRESIDENCY (Not "Serbia" as propaganda line goes).
3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated BUT Serbia is a successor. Kosovo remain SERBIAN province as it was before. Read UNSEC #1244.
4) Kosovo was NOT a constituent part of Yugoslavia. Constituent parts of Yugoslavia were
5 peoples (1943-1963)and 6 republics (after 1963).
Ergo: Kosovo DID NOT have a say in the Badinter commission.
As of November 28, november 29 will come after that and Sun will rise in the east.
Predictable move from the KLA warlord done primarily for his own self-preservation. It is looking more and more like they are opting for the Cyprus scenario: total limbo. The Serbs in the north of the province will not be isolated but for the Serbian citizens that live in enclaves south of the Ibar, it will be very tough living in a self-proclaimed, 90% muslim state. The Serbian governement must do everything in its power to help them, including moving them north if necessary.
The full responsibility for such a statement made by Mr.Ceku is to be relayed exclusively upon the USA, the UK and a small number of some other EU states - simply because they have incited this gentleman to do so.
Peter,
It is funny to see how you are holding on the Russian veto like a drowning man to the last staw.
I am waiting for that Russian veto for months. The UN demonstrated in the last 50 years that it is a completely useless institution. It just waist time and a lot of money (US is the biggest contributor). It is a place, where second class regional powers like France or now Russia try to show that they are more important than the world really see them.
Russia was bypassed, ignored during the bombing of Serbia in 1999 and also in 2003, when Irak was invaded. It can be bypassed and humiliated again. It is hight time to do it to put the Russians in their proper place.
I wouldnt be so sure about this statement because a Russian veto is about to come into play.
The Albanians think that the US is God and will grant the noble Albanians who have been in Kosova for 100s of years a new country which will be prosperous.
The reality is unfortunatly:
Kosovo has only since WW2 had a Albanian majority.
Kosovo has been under Albanian leadership for many decades already.
The Serbs in Kosovo have been expelled from their homes and continue to be killed/expelled.
The Albanian leadership consists of ex-KLA terrorists.
The US has very little or no interest in Kosovo without the economic implications.
Kosovo will not prosper or be able to with a Russian veto. I.e the US will be the sole provider of funds to Kosova.
A lot of Serbs here think they have this thing called "International Law" on their side.
Well, international law is made of non-binding principles which sometimes contradict each other. In a court of law Kosovo would win the right to seceede based on two simple facts enshrined in this 'international law':
1) Kosovars are a 'people' thus they are invested with the right to self-determination
2) their right to self-determination has been trampled by Yugoslavia.
3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated
4) Kosovo was a constituent part of Yugoslavia
Ergo: Kosovo should have had a say in the Badinter Commission which blew it but allowing the situation to fester this way.
Either way, the situation will be rectified on Nov 28, 2007
It is not surprising that Nehat Krasniqi writes that “Their is no reason why we should live with a system that tried to burn the Albanian Kosovars out their homes” Usually pyromaniacs that start the fires killing of people in cafés, postmen delivering mail, and policemen given tickets on the highway blame others for the fires that they start and than they kill firemen who try to put the fire out. Nehat forgets that the main ingredient of any fire is the lighting of the match.
I don't understand what you Albanians are so excited about. This isn't the first time you've unilaterally declared independence from Serbia. What happened to the Kacanik declaration of 1990, or the referendum you had in 1991?
Now that there isn't going to be a new resolution in the Security Council, Resolution 1244 is the final word on Kosovo.
As far as the UN, and the international organizations, are concerned Kosovo is a province of Serbia -- end of discussion.
You Albanians can declare your independence tomorrow and the United States, Albania, and a handfull of EU and Islamic countries might recognize you, but the UN, the international organizations, and the rest of the world aren't going to.
Kosovo won't have a final status. It will have a disputed status, and nobody is going to invest in a disputed territory.
It never ceases to amaze me how this chap feels he can do what he wishes - he's setting up the providence for another battle.
Additionally, everyone has comments about the US, but fails to look at the taxpayers - what do you think of that? All the hardworking people of the States footing money for criminals - guess nothing has changed.
- North Kosovo will never stay if South declares independence leading to a conflict
- As unlikely as it is for Belgrade to use military, I see it even less likely that Americans will send 30000 troops to protect them if things go violent
- KFOR will leave or will be there for a LONG LONG LONG time, and who will be willing to pay their bills
- This was probably the dumbest comment ever by cecku as it shows they are not willing to hold serious talks and with that placing any future blame on the albans
- If they invite the EU and declare unilateral independence, EU has clearly stated they will not be touching this situation without a clear mandate (meaning UN resolution)
- I still dare US to recognize them since then they will not be able to say anything when Russia does the same in Moldova and in Georgia (which the Russians are desperately hoping for)
This is the attitude that is needed. If the UNSC is being blocked by one stubborn nation, you need to show what you think of such attitude and go around it. Kosovo wants independence and it should try to get it with any means necessary, especially with all the support it has now. Once the independence is secured, another chapter in the blunders of Yugoslav/Serbian politics can finally be closed.
It is good step from Ceku and in this way Russia will have excuse to say that look we have done are best but came the other way.I still think Cecu was advised to take this step by high powers.
Hi from a very sunny Prishtina. Looks like the weather is the only thing that we are sharing with Serbia.
Just another statement from a politician. By now I have learned that politicians can turn their statements around very quickly. So, I wont be surprised if I hear something different tomorrow. Mr. Ceku has done nothing different from the other politicians.
This statement should not be seen as threatening to any Serb. If Ahtisari plan is respected than K-Serbs would be the only minority in the planet with such rights.
I think that Serbs should stop listening to Belgrade( like my colleague has done) and start integrating to new Kosova. There is future for all, especially for Serbs in Independent Kosova.
It's about the time. Land swap was an option that could have brought a long lasting peace. But if US is set to be in Kosova this century, then, Kosova will survive and prosper as it is.
So it looks like there will be no change in the future then. Kosovo will declare independence which will have no legality, even if the US recognises it, which it probably will. The Eu will not recognise it, only certain member states.
The real question is what will happen in the north. The Albanians will try to claim this as well but i'm sure the Serbs will resist if the Albanians try to tkae the area by force, so I think it will end up as a de-facto partition as the US will not want to get bogged down by another war in the Balkans, even if they are not fighting it.
So, unless the natioalists like Afrim Hoaxer take up arms and try to take it by force, nothing in reality will change!
PB : "We'll see how Spain responds when ETA resumes it's war."
PB and all others alike like you stop creating this artificial analogy between Basque’s in Spain and Albanians in Kosova. How many of you ever spoke to any Spaniards of Basque origin?!?! First only small Basque population desire independence, majority of Basques , especially young generation are very comfortable being citizens of Spain. Also there are some other Serbian posters who when present their opinions to make it look as a stronger argument, take liberty to claim that their personal belief reflect foreign policies of their respective country that they reside. Sorry mr CANADIAN but Canada is pro USA and it wont EVER question their relationship with USA. Also FYI I went o CANADA with UNMIK passport, and nobody ever questioned me; this is also for mr DENMARK guy who once in a while talks as he is Denmark’s representative I visited CPH a lot with UNMIK passport and don’t try to portray western countries as pro Serbian.
Dobrica Cosic -'Lying is a form of our patriotism and is evidence of our innate intellegence. We lie in a creative, imaginative and inventive way'
Im not quite sure, but I think that if half of UN Member States recognise a country as independent, it will automatically become a member too. No one can veto that.
(henrik, 21. July 2007 09:56)
Nope,read UN charter-to become a member of the UN first sec. general sends letter to the Security council and if security council approves it(any of the permanent members has veto right on this)then it goes to the General assembly and there 2/3 of all UN countries must vote for it so new country can be addmited to the UN.So, with just one veto in the SC this all falls down!Thats how China is blocking Taiwan to become UN member for decades.Very simple!
I am not correcting anyone here but Kosova/o's PM said "should" and he didn't set yet the date.It is an important date,but this is only his proposal.
I was waiting for something like this for some time now.
All day we are hearing promises from US,on the other side we have veto veto veto,Serbian Government are always saying that they won't accept Kosova'o as a new country,so it was about time somebody from Kosova/o Government to say something.
I am still for partition even though some of you won't agree with me,but in here we are to express ourselves and not necessary to agree on everything.
The main thing is we should talk,listen,advice each other without childlish remarks.I think we all like to write comments in here as for both sides Kosova/o is important so lets not spoilt it.
Cheerio!
I am an EU expert working in Kosovo with several PISG minitsries preparing them for the eventual full management of Kosovo. First, independence is a de facto reality. We all know this. The delays with the UNSC are all about the 'grand game' that the imperial powers have always exercised over the Balkans.
In fact this could go either way. I can easily imaging that Mitrovica north will (if they haven't already) make immediate preparations to declare a form of "No-Go" area after 28th November if there is no UN settlement. This will create another de facto mini-state within the professed borders of the new Kosovo. It will be ralatively easy for them to be supported 'unofficially' by Serbia, even while the Beograd government fights UDI through diplomatic channels. (I do not expect a military action by Beograd whatever happens).
This situation resolves nothing, and creats unstability for years to come in Kosovo. Believe me, you do not need this. If the new Kosovo is to have an economic future, you need a peaceful transfer of power, and not further years of strife.
On the other hand, maybe this declaration is what is needed to stimulate the internationals to make a decision. Call Russia's bluff, or to intensify nefgotiations with Ceku and Beograd for form an acceptable compromise. IF there is compromise on both sides, a peaceful resolution is possible. It is in both Serbia's and Kosovo's interests to settle this amicably.
Of course, give the immediate history, this will be hard. there are dead on all sides, there is tragety on all sides, there is hate and distrust on all sides. It needs brave political leaders to take both countries on a better path.
War is not inevitable, but I fear it is a real possibility if common sense does not prevail on 28th November.
November 28th i will put this on my calendar to remind me to see what is going to happen i am sure after Mr Ceku made this annoucement the EU and US are scrambling to put a good spin on the story.
PB = We dont Ceku has been told so and it will happen. And the US will try to mold its relations with Russia but the fine line is that Kosova will be indepandant.
Laki - I put the question straight back to you. How many basque people do you know? do you live in Spain? How can you comment then on the proportion of the basque population who want independence?
My comparison was relevant for one good reason. Like the Basque region, Kosovo has NEVER been nothing more than an administrative region. Croatia and Montenegro were countries previously in their own right. Kosovo never was.
Now that the Kosovo independence bid failed at the UN, Ceku's announcement can be considered as a grave interference in Serbian internal affairs. It is not more than another UCK terrorist act by the puppet regime in Pristina. If the Albanian minority in Serbia makes such a move, than all the minorities should be allowed to do the same. What is good for Serbia now, is that the independence issue has no legal ground under the internatinal law and the UN framework. Furthermore, all the other unilateral recognitions have no solid ground and can also be considered as the breach of international law. In case Pristina declares independence, Serbs in Kosovo should automatically block this decision and isolate themselves from the Albanian foreign sponsored regime in the province. On the other hand,since the Resolution 1244 is still valid, Serbia should strongly demand the return of 200,000 refugees to Kosovo,
to prevent the humanitarian disaster provoked by the Albanians in the Province. Come to think of it, wasn't this the key argument for NATO intervention. Why doesn't NATO act now, to preserve the interests of the Serbs in Kosovo? It doesn't because it is in Kosovo illegally, by force, and is supporting the Albanian side.
A good deal is when both sides feel they have gained and lost something. I agree with Destan, partition is the best way. What do the Albanians want with the monasteries and the north and why would the Serbs be interested in keeping the south with it's problems apart from stubborness. Let's get on with improving the lives of the people and stop using them as pawns.
I am hoping that cooler heads will prevail coming up to November. I am also hoping that the Kosovo should not count on the US riding to the rescue, if hostilities break out, and i am hoping it will not, don't expect support from Albania or Macedonia. They are trying to get into NATO and the EU. Like i said, i am hoping for cooler heads to prevail if not then it will be another 1999 fiasco which the US won't come to this party there hands are full in Iraq and Afganistan. I am sure they will be some who say i am pro Serb and yes that opinion is your but this is realistic thinking. thanks
Sorry, PB but I think that your comparison with the Basques is completely off the mark. Whatever their historical/legal claim for statehood, the Basques are a people that don't have a country. The Albanians do. It's called Albania.
My issue is the way in which Kosovo achieves its indepedence. Do it legally and maturely, and you will have the majority of the international community not only supporting you, but also supporting your state's institutions. Do it unilaterally and against international law and most of the states that do support your independence efforts will pull much of their aid. Plus, I have not seen any serious efforts by either Pristina or the international community to reintegrate northern Kosovo with the rest. At best, and independent Kosovo will most likely have to accomodate a considerable degree of autonomy, if not outright separatism at the Ibar. Just as Serbian rule is non-existant in Albanian parts of Kosovo, so too is Albanian rule in the Serbian sectors.
Laki, the countries you listed have certainly lent their support to an independent Kosovo, but so far as it is realized through legal channels. If Ceku wants to not wait any longer and go against all the advice of his international supporters, he'll quickly find how much of that support evaporates.
Get real! The Albanian people in Kosovo are surviving on less then 70 Euros per month! 70% of the population needs to make do with international hand outs. Do you really think illegal declaration of independence will improve your lives, for starters the 70% of the population that is living on the 70 Euro hand out will no longer even have that! You will be SHOCKED soon to see how support for your independence will disappear in them months to come.
Henrik, why not read the UN charter first, before making a statement on how it operates. This info is readily available on the Net. just Google it. In case you are too occupied to Google this, their will be one thing standing in the way of an independent Kosovo becoming a UN member, a RUSSIAN VETO!
Even Kosova Serbs think that independence is a good thing for them too. The only people who seem to oppose it are 'the Greater Serbia' demagogues commenting in the B92 site.
Mike: " Every credible organization on the planet has made it abundantly clear that there will be NO support for unilateral declarations,.. "
Mike which planetary system you live, I can guarantee you that everyone who reads news objectively knows that USA, UK , Germany, France, Denmark, Holland, Italy would be leading countries that will recognize independence of Kosova. You certainly are ignoring reality- its a know fact for your culture.
"All the Albanians that live in the province will cease to be legal citizens of Serbia on November 29th. Many of them are whether we like it or not"
They ceased to be "full-fledged", "legal" citizens of Serbia when the Serbian state denied them the right to vote for a constitution which the Serbian government claims it applies to the citizens with Albanian ethnicity.
To answer the reason why not declare independence now.
1.US, UK, France, Italy etc. want some more time to show that there can be no real negotiations when Serbs are involved. So they are asking the Albanians to wait for a couple of months, attend these meetings where nothing new will happen. After all this nothing has happened then in the contact group they'll tell Russia:" We told you can't negotiate and achieve results with the Serbs. They refused Ahtisari, they refused every single resolution, now they refused this. Since you're the mouthpiece of the Serbs in the UN, we will recognize them out of the UN where you have no veto power and cannot do anything to stop us from recognizing" After that the US will give its ok to Prishtina.
Some say it will be like northen Cyprus which it won't since unlike them this new state will be recognized by some of the most developed countries in the world. Also unlike them, if Serbia ever wants to join the UN it better agree with the major EU countries. But even if it ended up like Northern Cyprus, its still better than being under Serbia. Every K-Albanian here will tell you that. Serbia has destroyed once and for all the social contract it had with K-Albanians. That is a reason enough for K-Albanians not to be ruled by Serbia again, even if that "rule" is polished with empty phrases such as "widest", and "broadest" autonomy ever.
PB: "Like the Basque region, Kosovo has NEVER been nothing more than an administrative region."
Really?
Kosova is under UN and self administration recognized by a UN resolution, where Serbia's laws do not apply and where Serbia's government doesn't have a say on anything whatsoever, where the highest Serbian officials need special permission to enter its territory, and where Serbia's army if it had to enter would constitute an act of aggression under International Law. Kosova has it's own separate Parliament, Government, President, Constitutional framework and Legal system - quite different from Serbia's, it's own Police Force, National Guard (TMK) in addition to the International Police and KFOR, its currency is different from Serbia's, it has a different country code, customs and revenue service, educational system, postal service, license plates, etc, etc. All of which accepted internationally.
If that looks like nothing more than an administrative region to you, then I congratulate you on your fantasy.
Serbia's sovereignty over Kosova is merely nominal at best, and even that is legally unclear and contested by the local majority, since the document regulating Kosova's current international status, does not even once mentions Serbia, but a now defunct entity and makes no provision for automatic inheritance of such sovereignty. In fact, more than anything Serbia's claim of sovereignty is self-proclaimed and not explicitly stated in any document.
Though I have liked some of your previous comments, you are absolutely wrong on this one. The sollution can't be reached in UN if Russia is there to reject every proposal. The moment US, EU recognizes unilateral Independence, I doubt they'd allow north of Ibar to remain as lawless as it is. And they will definetly not allow Serbian dinar or Serbian registration plates on Kosova's soil. You've said many times, that you have no blood connection to Serbs, but your convictions seem to be as strong as Kostunica's, especially, when you are ready to badmouth your own country (USA) for Serbia. I am an Albanian American and don't hide it, and have called for a fair partition for the sake of peace.
I'm very glad that someone after Rugova is insisting so much in Independence, which is has the support of US. The visit of Ceku and Surroi to US is just a visit to commit something to US in turn of their recognition of Kosova independence.
What I, as Kosova Albanian, do not like in all this is that Kosova politiciants intend to implement Ahtisari plan. I do not see any reason, since it was not accepted by UN SC. Therefore we should go in full independence.
well, this IS bright news, and having just been sent a related e-article from a friend, i am simply smiling from ear to ear. i will refrain (for today) from responding to the "other side", and just say "congratulations!!" for kosovo/a, for kosovar albanians, for all kosovars, and for freedom-loving people everywhere. congratulations and mazel-tov. this may not have been the exact route i would have chosen, but it appears to be the only option left, and i support it, and have already alloted it a chapter for our forthcoming book.
Kosovo can not return to Serbia, whoever thinks that it is still a possibility is not reading the news.
If the transition of Kosovo to statehood is not done through UN and EU, Serbs in Kosovo will suffer the most as they would still be part of a Kosovo rife with Albanians in a "state" recognized by US and western European big players such as UK, Germany and France but not regulated and scrutinized as it would be if it is recognized in UN.
The only solution in the Balkans for a long lasting peace is through creating once and for all ethnic pure states, through existing ethnic lines.
Destan, I almost forgot to add, while partition would be the easiest and most logical solution to this entire problem, I am still hesitant to accept it, especially if 2/3 of K Serbs are living south of the Ibar. They will undoubtedly be pressured to move north, effectively clearing out any remaining Serb presence in Kosovo.
I accept the impending independence of Kosovo, but according to the following stipulations:
a) legal recognition through the UN, which means giving in to some of Russia's demands for the sake of the greater outcome
b) confederated state proportionately designed to reflect the 90:10 ratio of Albanians to Serbs, but high decentralization to each community
What I am against my country doing is the apparent ramming though a resolution that has little chance of passing in the UN, and being just as stubborn to compromise and accomodation to the opposing side as the Serbs and Russians.
Im not quite sure, but I think that if half of UN Member States recognise a country as independent, it will automatically become a member too. No one can veto that.
Great news Mr Ceku. The date however, although precious for the Albanians, may not be very important at this stage. What is important is that Kosova will be independent.
Any opinion by Serb or pro-Serb posters here does not change anything and is irrelevant. They are entitled to their view of the world and we to ours. Over and out.
JHam: "I am also hoping that the Kosovo should not count on the US riding to the rescue, if hostilities break out, and i am hoping it will not, don't expect support from Albania or Macedonia."
I'm also hoping that tomorrow, cherries will fall from the sky.
lowe, every single inch of Kosova will be a part of celebration, dont even dream otherwise because your dreams will not become true. With the blessings of the west and especially of USA and UK, Kosova will be Independent. USA during 1999 was able to protect every single inch of Kosova and will be able to protect it also now.
THere is no other way but a complete independent Kosova without even an inch of it missing.
Like it or not, this is the reality.
November 28th is an Albanian Independence Declaration, in 1912 they got rid of the Turkish occupiers, who were there almost 500 years, this time they are getting rid of Serbian occupation.
Congratulations!!!
Hopefully this will start sticking in some of the hot-heads that power of the US and support for freedoms and self-determination of the people struggling around the world is paramount.
Serbia should get the act together or there will be food shortages over this winter. Us still controls th IMF and the World Bank. Lets not forget that.
Very clever Agim, you have set a date which is far enough away to give yourself time to liquidate you assets and transfer them to Cyprus, but not so far away that the K.Alb plebisite won't get despondentand act precipitously. Of course the whole unilateral biz is laughable and this declaration will keep me chuckling all weekend.
In response to this statement Serbia should:1)ask Russia's military broad assistance; 2)adopt a strongly-worded resolution by its Parliament;3) ask the UNO, EU and NATO do denounce this statement as a provocative one. An advice to Mr.Ceku: withdraw your statement it is not too late.
Predictable move from the KLA warlord done primarily for his own self-preservation. It is looking more and more like they are opting for the Cyprus scenario: total limbo. The Serbs in the north of the province will not be isolated but for the Serbian citizens that live in enclaves south of the Ibar, it will be very tough living in a self-proclaimed, 90% muslim state. The Serbian governement must do everything in its power to help them, including moving them north if necessary.
Guess where the latest American troops went? In the North boarder...! for all those doubting... KATE its true that the US does not severity rights to Kosova!!! but they are our closest allies and we have chosen to be friend with them as the US leads the way to democracy and not tyranny unlike some other world powers... The will of the people has determined boarders since ancient Greek times and they will continue to do so (LET ALONE THE ALBANIAN HAVE LIVED IN THE REGION SCINCE ILIRIAN TIMES)... Their is no reason why we should live with a system that tried to burn the Albanian Kosovars out their homes.. Kosova in my opinion will be independent and Agim Ceku a former General in the Croation Army who He helped to update the doctrine and tactics of the Croatian Army and successful Operation Maestral that prompted peace deals, he knows exactly what he is talking about, the US HAS OBVIOUSLY ASKED HIM TO DECLARE.
Afrim - Kosovo isn't part of US sovereign territory, and they would be very unwise to act outside of the UN. It would have major ramifications around the world.
An illegal declaration of independence leads to huge problems for many years to come, and never delivers full independence (even if the US does stick to its word).
Iowe is absolutely right that such a declaration would lead to immediate partition, possibly even war. Why would you celebrate that??
Peter,
It is funny to see how you are holding on the Russian veto like a drowning man to the last staw.
I am waiting for that Russian veto for months. The UN demonstrated in the last 50 years that it is a completely useless institution. It just waist time and a lot of money (US is the biggest contributor). It is a place, where second class regional powers like France or now Russia try to show that they are more important than the world really see them.
Russia was bypassed, ignored during the bombing of Serbia in 1999 and also in 2003, when Irak was invaded. It can be bypassed and humiliated again. It is hight time to do it to put the Russians in their proper place.
A lot of Serbs here think they have this thing called "International Law" on their side.
Well, international law is made of non-binding principles which sometimes contradict each other. In a court of law Kosovo would win the right to seceede based on two simple facts enshrined in this 'international law':
1) Kosovars are a 'people' thus they are invested with the right to self-determination
2) their right to self-determination has been trampled by Yugoslavia.
3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated
4) Kosovo was a constituent part of Yugoslavia
Ergo: Kosovo should have had a say in the Badinter Commission which blew it but allowing the situation to fester this way.
Either way, the situation will be rectified on Nov 28, 2007
It is not surprising that Nehat Krasniqi writes that “Their is no reason why we should live with a system that tried to burn the Albanian Kosovars out their homes” Usually pyromaniacs that start the fires killing of people in cafés, postmen delivering mail, and policemen given tickets on the highway blame others for the fires that they start and than they kill firemen who try to put the fire out. Nehat forgets that the main ingredient of any fire is the lighting of the match.
Even Kosova Serbs think that independence is a good thing for them too. The only people who seem to oppose it are 'the Greater Serbia' demagogues commenting in the B92 site.
This is the attitude that is needed. If the UNSC is being blocked by one stubborn nation, you need to show what you think of such attitude and go around it. Kosovo wants independence and it should try to get it with any means necessary, especially with all the support it has now. Once the independence is secured, another chapter in the blunders of Yugoslav/Serbian politics can finally be closed.
Hi from a very sunny Prishtina. Looks like the weather is the only thing that we are sharing with Serbia.
Just another statement from a politician. By now I have learned that politicians can turn their statements around very quickly. So, I wont be surprised if I hear something different tomorrow. Mr. Ceku has done nothing different from the other politicians.
This statement should not be seen as threatening to any Serb. If Ahtisari plan is respected than K-Serbs would be the only minority in the planet with such rights.
I think that Serbs should stop listening to Belgrade( like my colleague has done) and start integrating to new Kosova. There is future for all, especially for Serbs in Independent Kosova.
Sorry, PB but I think that your comparison with the Basques is completely off the mark. Whatever their historical/legal claim for statehood, the Basques are a people that don't have a country. The Albanians do. It's called Albania.
Caligula can proclaim his horse is a senator too, just like Ceku can proclaim that greater albania will exist. Without UN approval, his proclamations mean nothing. The threat of violence is the only card that the albanians hold, while the Serbian side holds international law, truth and justice on their side. Ceku is showing the world his true face, and his proclamation will only serve to damage their cause.
It's about the time. Land swap was an option that could have brought a long lasting peace. But if US is set to be in Kosova this century, then, Kosova will survive and prosper as it is.
PB : "We'll see how Spain responds when ETA resumes it's war."
PB and all others alike like you stop creating this artificial analogy between Basque’s in Spain and Albanians in Kosova. How many of you ever spoke to any Spaniards of Basque origin?!?! First only small Basque population desire independence, majority of Basques , especially young generation are very comfortable being citizens of Spain. Also there are some other Serbian posters who when present their opinions to make it look as a stronger argument, take liberty to claim that their personal belief reflect foreign policies of their respective country that they reside. Sorry mr CANADIAN but Canada is pro USA and it wont EVER question their relationship with USA. Also FYI I went o CANADA with UNMIK passport, and nobody ever questioned me; this is also for mr DENMARK guy who once in a while talks as he is Denmark’s representative I visited CPH a lot with UNMIK passport and don’t try to portray western countries as pro Serbian.
Dobrica Cosic -'Lying is a form of our patriotism and is evidence of our innate intellegence. We lie in a creative, imaginative and inventive way'
Though I have liked some of your previous comments, you are absolutely wrong on this one. The sollution can't be reached in UN if Russia is there to reject every proposal. The moment US, EU recognizes unilateral Independence, I doubt they'd allow north of Ibar to remain as lawless as it is. And they will definetly not allow Serbian dinar or Serbian registration plates on Kosova's soil. You've said many times, that you have no blood connection to Serbs, but your convictions seem to be as strong as Kostunica's, especially, when you are ready to badmouth your own country (USA) for Serbia. I am an Albanian American and don't hide it, and have called for a fair partition for the sake of peace.
As lowe asked it:why don't you declare it tomorrow?Why waiting till November? Maybe,like Ahmet,you still belive Russia wil not use veto?:-)So,show your guts-declare independence now!
It is good step from Ceku and in this way Russia will have excuse to say that look we have done are best but came the other way.I still think Cecu was advised to take this step by high powers.
Nov. 28th, is obviously very common date for Albnaians decisioms of different kinds. I like it. But who recognized Albanians as the nation allowed to make anything they like, and not to the other nations in the world.
Full support to Serbian approach.
I agree with Louie on the point he made: let´s not be childish!
Serbia won´t have food shortages this winter, that´s probably something the Albanians are told in their "newspapers", but reality is different.
and what is just more amusing: an Albanian, even one with a last name of slavic origin is trying to sell us again this nonsense about the illyrian descent...
ceku is doing what he can to stay "credible", not more.
he will probably go somewhere else with his croatian wife and laugh while spending the UNMIK-money he stole from the k-albanians.
By the way,what happened with Ahmet???I need to mark his words again about Russian veto!:-)So,thanks to Russia:no seat in UN for Kosovo,no IMF,no World bank,no OSCE,no Council of Europe,no FIFA,no UEFA....no Eurosong too!And new,"independent" KosovA will be something like northern Cyprus...good luck,you gonna need it!
I wouldnt be so sure about this statement because a Russian veto is about to come into play.
The Albanians think that the US is God and will grant the noble Albanians who have been in Kosova for 100s of years a new country which will be prosperous.
The reality is unfortunatly:
Kosovo has only since WW2 had a Albanian majority.
Kosovo has been under Albanian leadership for many decades already.
The Serbs in Kosovo have been expelled from their homes and continue to be killed/expelled.
The Albanian leadership consists of ex-KLA terrorists.
The US has very little or no interest in Kosovo without the economic implications.
Kosovo will not prosper or be able to with a Russian veto. I.e the US will be the sole provider of funds to Kosova.
And if independence is such a "done deal", why wait until November??
Ceku is fishing for world opinion to see what the response will be to his announcement.
Good luck to the Albanians in the southern part of Kosovo if you get independence. I'm sure many other people around the world won't be so generous though as this will set a precedent which many other separatists will use as justification.
We'll see how Spain responds when ETA resumes it's war.
Speaking of dates, let's not forget November 28 1942 - the date when Serbian Orthodox priests Cedomir Bacanin and Tihomir Popovic were executed in Kosovska Mitrovica prison and when the orgy of murder and expulsions of Serbs from Kosovo province by Albanians was well under way.
Interesting that somebody has mentioned Skanderbeg and Kruja which, during the Second World War would, respectively, later become the name of an Albanian Nazi SS Division and the latter being the surname of Mustafa Kruja, the murderous fascist Prime Minister of a Greater Albania.
PB = We dont Ceku has been told so and it will happen. And the US will try to mold its relations with Russia but the fine line is that Kosova will be indepandant.
Kreshnik - You are quite wrong in your 'legal' cases:
"1) Kosovars are a 'people' thus they are invested with the right to self-determination" - no, that's not the case. People have individual rights; only nations have rights to sovereign ownership.
"2) their right to self-determination has been trampled by Yugoslavia." - The conflict ended before the existing resolution was written, therefore this is not relevant. And since 1999 there certainly has been no trampling of rights, except by Albanians on the minorities there.
"3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated" - Irrelevant, especially as Kosovo is a province and not a state.
4) "Kosovo was a constituent part of Yugoslavia" - Kosovo was and remains a province of Serbia, not a state in its own right.
So, no, in a real legal situation there would be no grounds for independence.
If there was a national referendum it would have to include the whole of Serbia, and even with 90% in Kosovo there would be no nationwide support for independence.
Mike: " Every credible organization on the planet has made it abundantly clear that there will be NO support for unilateral declarations,.. "
Mike which planetary system you live, I can guarantee you that everyone who reads news objectively knows that USA, UK , Germany, France, Denmark, Holland, Italy would be leading countries that will recognize independence of Kosova. You certainly are ignoring reality- its a know fact for your culture.
JHam: "I am also hoping that the Kosovo should not count on the US riding to the rescue, if hostilities break out, and i am hoping it will not, don't expect support from Albania or Macedonia."
I'm also hoping that tomorrow, cherries will fall from the sky.
Serbia should get the act together or there will be food shortages over this winter. Us still controls th IMF and the World Bank. Lets not forget that.
(lazer, 20. July 2007 13:30)
It seems lazer is trying to be funny,lol.Serbia doesn't need IMF anymore,it returned all debt to IMF!And National banks currency reserves are biggest in history-13 billion $,so don't worry about Serbia ,better worry about electricity and water shortages in Kosovo!
@lazer (A Tesla invention, btw)
Worst possible move. Bearing in mind that new Serbian EU travel documents are coming out in March, I wonder how thousands of Albanians will feel about Agim singlehandedly renouncing everyone's entitlement to Serbian citizenship. All the Albanians that live in the province will cease to be legal citizens of Serbia on November 29th. Many of them are whether we like it or not which is why even today they use their entitlement to Serbian health care on a regular basis. In addition to this, membership of international bodies will be impossible: no UN seat obviously but also the ridiculous notion of a "Kosova" being part of UEFA and other sporting institutions will finally be laid to rest. It will be a carbon copy of Cyprus which Lavrov hinted at on several occasions. This suits Serbia far more than the Albanians and brings some kind of freeze on the situation with no financial burden or legal obligation towards the Albanians when the time comes for Serbia to restore sovereignity over her province. Enjoy the celebration, just make sure that the fireworks don't set off any of Agim's KLA arms caches.
I am an EU expert working in Kosovo with several PISG minitsries preparing them for the eventual full management of Kosovo. First, independence is a de facto reality. We all know this. The delays with the UNSC are all about the 'grand game' that the imperial powers have always exercised over the Balkans.
In fact this could go either way. I can easily imaging that Mitrovica north will (if they haven't already) make immediate preparations to declare a form of "No-Go" area after 28th November if there is no UN settlement. This will create another de facto mini-state within the professed borders of the new Kosovo. It will be ralatively easy for them to be supported 'unofficially' by Serbia, even while the Beograd government fights UDI through diplomatic channels. (I do not expect a military action by Beograd whatever happens).
This situation resolves nothing, and creats unstability for years to come in Kosovo. Believe me, you do not need this. If the new Kosovo is to have an economic future, you need a peaceful transfer of power, and not further years of strife.
On the other hand, maybe this declaration is what is needed to stimulate the internationals to make a decision. Call Russia's bluff, or to intensify nefgotiations with Ceku and Beograd for form an acceptable compromise. IF there is compromise on both sides, a peaceful resolution is possible. It is in both Serbia's and Kosovo's interests to settle this amicably.
Of course, give the immediate history, this will be hard. there are dead on all sides, there is tragety on all sides, there is hate and distrust on all sides. It needs brave political leaders to take both countries on a better path.
War is not inevitable, but I fear it is a real possibility if common sense does not prevail on 28th November.
November 28th i will put this on my calendar to remind me to see what is going to happen i am sure after Mr Ceku made this annoucement the EU and US are scrambling to put a good spin on the story.
"lowe, every single inch of Kosova will be a part of celebration, dont even dream otherwise because your dreams will not become true. With the blessings of the west and especially of USA and UK, Kosova will be Independent. USA during 1999 was able to protect every single inch of Kosova and will be able to protect it also now.
THere is no other way but a complete independent Kosova without even an inch of it missing.
Like it or not, this is the reality.
(Afrim Hoxha, 20. July 2007 13:00) "
You are the one who is dreaming if you think the Serb majority north is going to accept your declaration with open arms. You never controlled the north and so it is absurd to expect the north to be suddenly handed to you on a silver platter come November.
You are dreaming even more if you expect Nato to risk World War 3 to fight the north on your behalf ..... why? .... the reason is simple ..... you can't claim that K-Albanians are being killed today -- that was Nato's reason for intervening back in 1999.
So by all means celebrate in Pristina come November but you will have to write off the north in a de facto partition. Don't forget that this declaration of independence will also not be valid to the UN and 1244 will still apply there -- this is another reason not to expect Nato inflame matters by fighting the K-Serbs for you.
Why does this joker even continue to govern a breakaway state? Why does my country continue to support what amounts to a warlord in a suit? And most importantly, why do all the Albanians on this site suddenly think November 28 is going to give them their de facto demands just because Ceku said so? Every credible organization on the planet has made it abundantly clear that there will be NO support for unilateral declarations, and that all channels of negotiations will go through the UN. Yet every day, this bloke thinks he, as not even an Albanian, but a K-Albanian, a leader of a shadow government within a non-recognized parastate, can somehow defy international law, and even go against the suggestions of his biggest supporters and monetary benefactors. This guy is just as crazy and delusional as Seselj. And how nice to make it November 28, like an Albanian Vidovdan.
And for people like Agim who still think that after 8 years they are somehow going to take control of Serb-held territories, just TRY to cross the Ibar on November 28 and celebrate. Just TRY to forcibly annex the Serb-held territories of Kosovo your government does not, and will never control. Put aside your delusions of gradeur and look at the situation with more realistic eyes.
It never ceases to amaze me how this chap feels he can do what he wishes - he's setting up the providence for another battle.
Additionally, everyone has comments about the US, but fails to look at the taxpayers - what do you think of that? All the hardworking people of the States footing money for criminals - guess nothing has changed.
- North Kosovo will never stay if South declares independence leading to a conflict
- As unlikely as it is for Belgrade to use military, I see it even less likely that Americans will send 30000 troops to protect them if things go violent
- KFOR will leave or will be there for a LONG LONG LONG time, and who will be willing to pay their bills
- This was probably the dumbest comment ever by cecku as it shows they are not willing to hold serious talks and with that placing any future blame on the albans
- If they invite the EU and declare unilateral independence, EU has clearly stated they will not be touching this situation without a clear mandate (meaning UN resolution)
- I still dare US to recognize them since then they will not be able to say anything when Russia does the same in Moldova and in Georgia (which the Russians are desperately hoping for)
I don't understand what you Albanians are so excited about. This isn't the first time you've unilaterally declared independence from Serbia. What happened to the Kacanik declaration of 1990, or the referendum you had in 1991?
Now that there isn't going to be a new resolution in the Security Council, Resolution 1244 is the final word on Kosovo.
As far as the UN, and the international organizations, are concerned Kosovo is a province of Serbia -- end of discussion.
You Albanians can declare your independence tomorrow and the United States, Albania, and a handfull of EU and Islamic countries might recognize you, but the UN, the international organizations, and the rest of the world aren't going to.
Kosovo won't have a final status. It will have a disputed status, and nobody is going to invest in a disputed territory.
I'm very glad that someone after Rugova is insisting so much in Independence, which is has the support of US. The visit of Ceku and Surroi to US is just a visit to commit something to US in turn of their recognition of Kosova independence.
What I, as Kosova Albanian, do not like in all this is that Kosova politiciants intend to implement Ahtisari plan. I do not see any reason, since it was not accepted by UN SC. Therefore we should go in full independence.
"All the Albanians that live in the province will cease to be legal citizens of Serbia on November 29th. Many of them are whether we like it or not"
They ceased to be "full-fledged", "legal" citizens of Serbia when the Serbian state denied them the right to vote for a constitution which the Serbian government claims it applies to the citizens with Albanian ethnicity.
To answer the reason why not declare independence now.
1.US, UK, France, Italy etc. want some more time to show that there can be no real negotiations when Serbs are involved. So they are asking the Albanians to wait for a couple of months, attend these meetings where nothing new will happen. After all this nothing has happened then in the contact group they'll tell Russia:" We told you can't negotiate and achieve results with the Serbs. They refused Ahtisari, they refused every single resolution, now they refused this. Since you're the mouthpiece of the Serbs in the UN, we will recognize them out of the UN where you have no veto power and cannot do anything to stop us from recognizing" After that the US will give its ok to Prishtina.
Some say it will be like northen Cyprus which it won't since unlike them this new state will be recognized by some of the most developed countries in the world. Also unlike them, if Serbia ever wants to join the UN it better agree with the major EU countries. But even if it ended up like Northern Cyprus, its still better than being under Serbia. Every K-Albanian here will tell you that. Serbia has destroyed once and for all the social contract it had with K-Albanians. That is a reason enough for K-Albanians not to be ruled by Serbia again, even if that "rule" is polished with empty phrases such as "widest", and "broadest" autonomy ever.
PB: "Like the Basque region, Kosovo has NEVER been nothing more than an administrative region."
Really?
Kosova is under UN and self administration recognized by a UN resolution, where Serbia's laws do not apply and where Serbia's government doesn't have a say on anything whatsoever, where the highest Serbian officials need special permission to enter its territory, and where Serbia's army if it had to enter would constitute an act of aggression under International Law. Kosova has it's own separate Parliament, Government, President, Constitutional framework and Legal system - quite different from Serbia's, it's own Police Force, National Guard (TMK) in addition to the International Police and KFOR, its currency is different from Serbia's, it has a different country code, customs and revenue service, educational system, postal service, license plates, etc, etc. All of which accepted internationally.
If that looks like nothing more than an administrative region to you, then I congratulate you on your fantasy.
Serbia's sovereignty over Kosova is merely nominal at best, and even that is legally unclear and contested by the local majority, since the document regulating Kosova's current international status, does not even once mentions Serbia, but a now defunct entity and makes no provision for automatic inheritance of such sovereignty. In fact, more than anything Serbia's claim of sovereignty is self-proclaimed and not explicitly stated in any document.
I am not correcting anyone here but Kosova/o's PM said "should" and he didn't set yet the date.It is an important date,but this is only his proposal.
I was waiting for something like this for some time now.
All day we are hearing promises from US,on the other side we have veto veto veto,Serbian Government are always saying that they won't accept Kosova'o as a new country,so it was about time somebody from Kosova/o Government to say something.
I am still for partition even though some of you won't agree with me,but in here we are to express ourselves and not necessary to agree on everything.
The main thing is we should talk,listen,advice each other without childlish remarks.I think we all like to write comments in here as for both sides Kosova/o is important so lets not spoilt it.
Cheerio!
Kreshnik Bejko, sorry to burst your bubble, but what you wrote cotradicts the facts:
1) Kosovars are NOT a 'people' thus they are NOT invested with the right to self-determination. Kosovo ALBANIANS are ethnic minority, like Hungarians in Vojvodina or Serbs in Hungary.
"Kosovar" do not exist as an ethnic group. "Kosovar"
mean Kosovan in Shqip and all citizens of Kosovo are "Kosovar", i.e. Serbs, Shqip, Roma. If K-Albanians DENY others the right to be Kosovans, it is an act of open racism.
2) They (Kosovo Albanians) did not have the right right to self-determination so It could not be "trampled by Yugoslavia."
Sqhiptars were NATIONAL MINORITY in Yugoslabia and National minorities have no right of Self-Determination.
After 1974 Kosovo was granted broad autonomy and Kosovo Albanian communists misused it in every way they could to detriment of all non-Albanians living in Kosovo. IMF requested that this plunder has to stop and broad autonomy was revoked by YUGOSLAV PRESIDENCY (Not "Serbia" as propaganda line goes).
3) Yugoslavia has been dis-integrated BUT Serbia is a successor. Kosovo remain SERBIAN province as it was before. Read UNSEC #1244.
4) Kosovo was NOT a constituent part of Yugoslavia. Constituent parts of Yugoslavia were
5 peoples (1943-1963)and 6 republics (after 1963).
Ergo: Kosovo DID NOT have a say in the Badinter commission.
As of November 28, november 29 will come after that and Sun will rise in the east.
Laki - I put the question straight back to you. How many basque people do you know? do you live in Spain? How can you comment then on the proportion of the basque population who want independence?
My comparison was relevant for one good reason. Like the Basque region, Kosovo has NEVER been nothing more than an administrative region. Croatia and Montenegro were countries previously in their own right. Kosovo never was.
well, this IS bright news, and having just been sent a related e-article from a friend, i am simply smiling from ear to ear. i will refrain (for today) from responding to the "other side", and just say "congratulations!!" for kosovo/a, for kosovar albanians, for all kosovars, and for freedom-loving people everywhere. congratulations and mazel-tov. this may not have been the exact route i would have chosen, but it appears to be the only option left, and i support it, and have already alloted it a chapter for our forthcoming book.
Great news Mr Ceku. The date however, although precious for the Albanians, may not be very important at this stage. What is important is that Kosova will be independent.
Any opinion by Serb or pro-Serb posters here does not change anything and is irrelevant. They are entitled to their view of the world and we to ours. Over and out.
Henrik, why not read the UN charter first, before making a statement on how it operates. This info is readily available on the Net. just Google it. In case you are too occupied to Google this, their will be one thing standing in the way of an independent Kosovo becoming a UN member, a RUSSIAN VETO!
The full responsibility for such a statement made by Mr.Ceku is to be relayed exclusively upon the USA, the UK and a small number of some other EU states - simply because they have incited this gentleman to do so.
So it looks like there will be no change in the future then. Kosovo will declare independence which will have no legality, even if the US recognises it, which it probably will. The Eu will not recognise it, only certain member states.
The real question is what will happen in the north. The Albanians will try to claim this as well but i'm sure the Serbs will resist if the Albanians try to tkae the area by force, so I think it will end up as a de-facto partition as the US will not want to get bogged down by another war in the Balkans, even if they are not fighting it.
So, unless the natioalists like Afrim Hoaxer take up arms and try to take it by force, nothing in reality will change!
A good deal is when both sides feel they have gained and lost something. I agree with Destan, partition is the best way. What do the Albanians want with the monasteries and the north and why would the Serbs be interested in keeping the south with it's problems apart from stubborness. Let's get on with improving the lives of the people and stop using them as pawns.
Kosovo can not return to Serbia, whoever thinks that it is still a possibility is not reading the news.
If the transition of Kosovo to statehood is not done through UN and EU, Serbs in Kosovo will suffer the most as they would still be part of a Kosovo rife with Albanians in a "state" recognized by US and western European big players such as UK, Germany and France but not regulated and scrutinized as it would be if it is recognized in UN.
The only solution in the Balkans for a long lasting peace is through creating once and for all ethnic pure states, through existing ethnic lines.
Now that the Kosovo independence bid failed at the UN, Ceku's announcement can be considered as a grave interference in Serbian internal affairs. It is not more than another UCK terrorist act by the puppet regime in Pristina. If the Albanian minority in Serbia makes such a move, than all the minorities should be allowed to do the same. What is good for Serbia now, is that the independence issue has no legal ground under the internatinal law and the UN framework. Furthermore, all the other unilateral recognitions have no solid ground and can also be considered as the breach of international law. In case Pristina declares independence, Serbs in Kosovo should automatically block this decision and isolate themselves from the Albanian foreign sponsored regime in the province. On the other hand,since the Resolution 1244 is still valid, Serbia should strongly demand the return of 200,000 refugees to Kosovo,
to prevent the humanitarian disaster provoked by the Albanians in the Province. Come to think of it, wasn't this the key argument for NATO intervention. Why doesn't NATO act now, to preserve the interests of the Serbs in Kosovo? It doesn't because it is in Kosovo illegally, by force, and is supporting the Albanian side.
I am hoping that cooler heads will prevail coming up to November. I am also hoping that the Kosovo should not count on the US riding to the rescue, if hostilities break out, and i am hoping it will not, don't expect support from Albania or Macedonia. They are trying to get into NATO and the EU. Like i said, i am hoping for cooler heads to prevail if not then it will be another 1999 fiasco which the US won't come to this party there hands are full in Iraq and Afganistan. I am sure they will be some who say i am pro Serb and yes that opinion is your but this is realistic thinking. thanks
Im not quite sure, but I think that if half of UN Member States recognise a country as independent, it will automatically become a member too. No one can veto that.
Get real! The Albanian people in Kosovo are surviving on less then 70 Euros per month! 70% of the population needs to make do with international hand outs. Do you really think illegal declaration of independence will improve your lives, for starters the 70% of the population that is living on the 70 Euro hand out will no longer even have that! You will be SHOCKED soon to see how support for your independence will disappear in them months to come.
My issue is the way in which Kosovo achieves its indepedence. Do it legally and maturely, and you will have the majority of the international community not only supporting you, but also supporting your state's institutions. Do it unilaterally and against international law and most of the states that do support your independence efforts will pull much of their aid. Plus, I have not seen any serious efforts by either Pristina or the international community to reintegrate northern Kosovo with the rest. At best, and independent Kosovo will most likely have to accomodate a considerable degree of autonomy, if not outright separatism at the Ibar. Just as Serbian rule is non-existant in Albanian parts of Kosovo, so too is Albanian rule in the Serbian sectors.
Laki, the countries you listed have certainly lent their support to an independent Kosovo, but so far as it is realized through legal channels. If Ceku wants to not wait any longer and go against all the advice of his international supporters, he'll quickly find how much of that support evaporates.
Destan, I almost forgot to add, while partition would be the easiest and most logical solution to this entire problem, I am still hesitant to accept it, especially if 2/3 of K Serbs are living south of the Ibar. They will undoubtedly be pressured to move north, effectively clearing out any remaining Serb presence in Kosovo.
I accept the impending independence of Kosovo, but according to the following stipulations:
a) legal recognition through the UN, which means giving in to some of Russia's demands for the sake of the greater outcome
b) confederated state proportionately designed to reflect the 90:10 ratio of Albanians to Serbs, but high decentralization to each community
What I am against my country doing is the apparent ramming though a resolution that has little chance of passing in the UN, and being just as stubborn to compromise and accomodation to the opposing side as the Serbs and Russians.
Im not quite sure, but I think that if half of UN Member States recognise a country as independent, it will automatically become a member too. No one can veto that.
(henrik, 21. July 2007 09:56)
Nope,read UN charter-to become a member of the UN first sec. general sends letter to the Security council and if security council approves it(any of the permanent members has veto right on this)then it goes to the General assembly and there 2/3 of all UN countries must vote for it so new country can be addmited to the UN.So, with just one veto in the SC this all falls down!Thats how China is blocking Taiwan to become UN member for decades.Very simple!
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