Hey , good afternoon,
your coment about contact group being a lobby for albanians, how naive of you- arent you aware that russia is member of contact group.
The bottom line is that Serbia is adamant about KosovO remaining a part of Serbia.
The entire migration of the albanians who have invaded KosovO is due to the fact that there was something - some governmental power that prevented the albanians from staying in their country.
Ment - If the situation you describe does materialise, i'd be happy with that. Like i said previously, that'll depend upon how that scenario fits in with Russia's and the USA's objectives. Who knows what they want and therefore what the future holds.
As for being manipulated - that's the story of the entire balkans. The USA, EU and Russia have been taken their interest into the area for years and the result being 10+ years of wars. Unless they can shake free from this influence, the trouble will only continue in the future.
I could not agree with you more on both sides being used as pawns.
That however, is only because for good or bad, both Albanians and Serbs ALLOWED themselves to be used as such. Neither side had enough guts to compromise and in doing so they allowed the big powers to do the deciding for them.
One compromise could have been; Serbia gets to keep northern Kosovo and the field of Gazimestan (or whatever it is that the Kosovo battle got fought on) while the Albanians go their own way with the rest of the province.
I'm convinced that Ceku will go through with the independence declaration if the present situation does not change. I'm also convinced that once that happens, the Kosovo Serbs will probably do the same.
I'm also sure that it will not come to violence. I think the Kosovar Albanians do realize that the northern Kosovo will be lost to them once unilateral independence is declared. Ironically, this may be the best possible solution for all sides ... and guess what, the peoples of the province will have decided for themselves for once.
Ment - Serbia and Kosovo are just pawns being used to play out the big powers wishes.
Without some sense being brought to the table the whole situation could turn really ugly.
We all know that the US and EU need compliant states in the Balkans to ensure that their energy pipelines will be safe running over them, so obviously Albania has become an important partner for the US and EU.
Will that partnership push Serbia too far? If Ceku announces independence in November, would he be prepared to take the northern part by force? would the US back him if he did?
If he annoounces independence and he does not try to take the north by force, then nothing will change. If he does, then i fear that contrary to what the Government in Belgrade has previously said, it wouldn't stand by if the northern part was invaded. That could drag in Russia, whose relations with the West at the moment are far from good.
«Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić reiterated Thursday in Lisbon that Serbia was against imposed independence of Kosovo»
There is nothing being imposed in Kosovo: the independence is the wish of a majority in the land. And it is better than what Serbia would like to impose on Kosovo: status quo or imposed autonomy!
If the EU wants to offer a European solution then it must think outside the box and start offering carrots big enough to satisfy even Bugs Bunny.There is no legal way to revoke Serbia's deed to Kosovo acquired back in 1912 before Yugoslavia even existed and the drawing of pseudo political borders by the Communists.The EU needs to tell Serbs in Kosovo when they will join as citizens of Kosova or Serbia and tell Albanians when they will join as citizens of Serbia or of Kosova but either way partition will in fact happen de facto by both communities in Kosovo and will stay thus for the next 100 years.Cyprus is your perfect example.
In Iraq Bush has met his Waterloo at the hands of Islamists contrary to his early proclamation of MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.Unfortunately,this will be Bush's legacy and what a tragedy to be defined by history this way.In Kosovo for one split second he may think he has a minor victory.Time will tell.
Good afternoon,
Nicely stated.
Kosovo will never be anything but Serbia proper and the most important fact is, Serbia will regain North from this while the South will put itself into worst possible state. It will economically starve its own citizens.
It's interesting to note your opinions on today's Contact Group and NATO.
Back in 1912, it was those same "imperial powers" that recognized Serbian sovereignty over occupied Kosovo as part of the sharing of spoils from the war with the Ottomans (Conference of Ambassadors in London). The Albanians living in Kosovo were naturally not asked about their opinion on the matter.
As if this wasn't bad enough, the Conference of Paris (of those same imperial powers) a couple of years later decided to do away with the entire concept of an "Albanian state" and just give the Serbs about a third to half of present day Albania. Thanks to the U.S. that did not happen.
In any case, justly or unjustly (depending on the point of view), Kosovo remained recognized as part of Serbia until now. It would have probably remained so for a long time to come had it not been for Milosevic.
Now, it is these same great powers (minus Russia) that will probably unilaterally recognize the independence of Kosovo. Once that happens, Serbia will kiss Kosovo goodbye and that will be the reality on the ground for a long time to come, unless the Kosovar Albanias do something truly stupid and come up with a Milosevic of their own (highly unlikely).
In my opinion, this whole sorry mess confirms one thing only; what goes around -- comes around.
Because Serbia was on the receiving end of NATO action, you complain about NATO overriding the UN. I'm sure you'd be singing a very different tune had the circumstances of the conflict between Serbs and Albanians been reversed.
The point is, the UN is a flawed institution. It comprises of countries that respect things such as life and human rights and other countries that just don't give a damn about such concepts, among them, Russia and China (veto holders).
For such a relatively small continent, Europe has had a very violent history with some of the worse atrocities known to mankind committed here. The Serb-Kosovar conflict was a European issue handled by a largely European alliance (NATO) of democracies, which by the way, Serbia will most likely join in the very near future.
The United States is in no mood to "cooperate" with Serbia over Kosovo because it is looking, deseperately, for an international victory. We thought we could stabilize Afghanistan, and all we've done is stabilize Kabul. We thought we could change Iraq, and, well, you know the rest. Now we are looking for something less bold and more manageable, like Kosovo to put our name on. Why do you think my government is the loudest supporter of Kosovo's independence and is the most willing to hammer through its independence "one way or another?" The Bush Administration, which couldn't find its way out of an elevator, needs something to put down in the history books as an accomplishment.
Now let's discuss this idea of solutions to Kosovo taking place outside the UN. Let's say it comes to debate squarely within the EU. That removes the Russian obstacle for veto, yes, but it also removes the US for supporting unilateral acts of lunacy since neither of them are members of the EU. A 20+ member bureaucracy, where many states are less willing to grant Kosovo the degree of independence it wants, may actually come up with a fairer deal between Belgrade and Pristina. I doubt anyone can keep Kosovo from seceding, but I think the EU would be more willing to create a Kosovo in which power is shared between Albanians, Serbs, and EU high officials, similar to Bosnia. One of the main reasons, I think, for such intransigence over this region is that it is assumed the Albanians are going to be given power over everything, something the Serbs do not want, and the Albanians cannot achieve.
what is so funny about it, Albanians think "that that is it"!
unilateral declaration and recognition of "some important" countries is "more than enough" as one Albanian here has pointed out.
well if so, wonderful. that means, that sooner or later, "important" countries can and very likely will act contrary to a recognition, but Albanians won´t even realize it. and the really important thing, the ( real ) legal status, remains in place.
and criminals like ceku and taci will live somewhere else with the money that was originally meant to be spent for the K-albanians...
The Contact Group is nothing more than a lobby group for Albanian separatism. They can adopt a new "solution" which makes Athens the new capital of Albania but it has no law-making powers to bring that into effect.
In a wider context the planet faced a similar situation prior to World War II when the Imperial power of the time tried to usurp the League of Nations because of their greedy intent to change maps of sovereign nations (invasion -> annexation -> plunder). The UN has replaced the League of Nations but the Imperial power of today (the NATO Pact) is looking for a precedent which will give them carte blanche to redraw borders without UN approval effectively signaling the end of the UN. History keeps repeating itself with the same old actors taking center stage just with different costumes.
I am a bit confused. Yesterday, the portugeese special representative of the ministry of foreign affairs said in Pristina that Portugal will support an independence for Kosovo even outside the UN. Also Condolisa Rice said in Lisabon, that Kosovo will be independent one way or the other. Will mr. Jeremic be able to change the mind of the Portugeese leaders??? I dont think so.
The Contact Group is nothing more than a lobby group for Albanian separatism. They can adopt a new "solution" which makes Athens the new capital of Albania but it has no law-making powers to bring that into effect.
In a wider context the planet faced a similar situation prior to World War II when the Imperial power of the time tried to usurp the League of Nations because of their greedy intent to change maps of sovereign nations (invasion -> annexation -> plunder). The UN has replaced the League of Nations but the Imperial power of today (the NATO Pact) is looking for a precedent which will give them carte blanche to redraw borders without UN approval effectively signaling the end of the UN. History keeps repeating itself with the same old actors taking center stage just with different costumes.
what is so funny about it, Albanians think "that that is it"!
unilateral declaration and recognition of "some important" countries is "more than enough" as one Albanian here has pointed out.
well if so, wonderful. that means, that sooner or later, "important" countries can and very likely will act contrary to a recognition, but Albanians won´t even realize it. and the really important thing, the ( real ) legal status, remains in place.
and criminals like ceku and taci will live somewhere else with the money that was originally meant to be spent for the K-albanians...
The United States is in no mood to "cooperate" with Serbia over Kosovo because it is looking, deseperately, for an international victory. We thought we could stabilize Afghanistan, and all we've done is stabilize Kabul. We thought we could change Iraq, and, well, you know the rest. Now we are looking for something less bold and more manageable, like Kosovo to put our name on. Why do you think my government is the loudest supporter of Kosovo's independence and is the most willing to hammer through its independence "one way or another?" The Bush Administration, which couldn't find its way out of an elevator, needs something to put down in the history books as an accomplishment.
Now let's discuss this idea of solutions to Kosovo taking place outside the UN. Let's say it comes to debate squarely within the EU. That removes the Russian obstacle for veto, yes, but it also removes the US for supporting unilateral acts of lunacy since neither of them are members of the EU. A 20+ member bureaucracy, where many states are less willing to grant Kosovo the degree of independence it wants, may actually come up with a fairer deal between Belgrade and Pristina. I doubt anyone can keep Kosovo from seceding, but I think the EU would be more willing to create a Kosovo in which power is shared between Albanians, Serbs, and EU high officials, similar to Bosnia. One of the main reasons, I think, for such intransigence over this region is that it is assumed the Albanians are going to be given power over everything, something the Serbs do not want, and the Albanians cannot achieve.
I am a bit confused. Yesterday, the portugeese special representative of the ministry of foreign affairs said in Pristina that Portugal will support an independence for Kosovo even outside the UN. Also Condolisa Rice said in Lisabon, that Kosovo will be independent one way or the other. Will mr. Jeremic be able to change the mind of the Portugeese leaders??? I dont think so.
If the EU wants to offer a European solution then it must think outside the box and start offering carrots big enough to satisfy even Bugs Bunny.There is no legal way to revoke Serbia's deed to Kosovo acquired back in 1912 before Yugoslavia even existed and the drawing of pseudo political borders by the Communists.The EU needs to tell Serbs in Kosovo when they will join as citizens of Kosova or Serbia and tell Albanians when they will join as citizens of Serbia or of Kosova but either way partition will in fact happen de facto by both communities in Kosovo and will stay thus for the next 100 years.Cyprus is your perfect example.
In Iraq Bush has met his Waterloo at the hands of Islamists contrary to his early proclamation of MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.Unfortunately,this will be Bush's legacy and what a tragedy to be defined by history this way.In Kosovo for one split second he may think he has a minor victory.Time will tell.
Good afternoon,
Nicely stated.
Kosovo will never be anything but Serbia proper and the most important fact is, Serbia will regain North from this while the South will put itself into worst possible state. It will economically starve its own citizens.
Ment - Serbia and Kosovo are just pawns being used to play out the big powers wishes.
Without some sense being brought to the table the whole situation could turn really ugly.
We all know that the US and EU need compliant states in the Balkans to ensure that their energy pipelines will be safe running over them, so obviously Albania has become an important partner for the US and EU.
Will that partnership push Serbia too far? If Ceku announces independence in November, would he be prepared to take the northern part by force? would the US back him if he did?
If he annoounces independence and he does not try to take the north by force, then nothing will change. If he does, then i fear that contrary to what the Government in Belgrade has previously said, it wouldn't stand by if the northern part was invaded. That could drag in Russia, whose relations with the West at the moment are far from good.
«Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić reiterated Thursday in Lisbon that Serbia was against imposed independence of Kosovo»
There is nothing being imposed in Kosovo: the independence is the wish of a majority in the land. And it is better than what Serbia would like to impose on Kosovo: status quo or imposed autonomy!
It's interesting to note your opinions on today's Contact Group and NATO.
Back in 1912, it was those same "imperial powers" that recognized Serbian sovereignty over occupied Kosovo as part of the sharing of spoils from the war with the Ottomans (Conference of Ambassadors in London). The Albanians living in Kosovo were naturally not asked about their opinion on the matter.
As if this wasn't bad enough, the Conference of Paris (of those same imperial powers) a couple of years later decided to do away with the entire concept of an "Albanian state" and just give the Serbs about a third to half of present day Albania. Thanks to the U.S. that did not happen.
In any case, justly or unjustly (depending on the point of view), Kosovo remained recognized as part of Serbia until now. It would have probably remained so for a long time to come had it not been for Milosevic.
Now, it is these same great powers (minus Russia) that will probably unilaterally recognize the independence of Kosovo. Once that happens, Serbia will kiss Kosovo goodbye and that will be the reality on the ground for a long time to come, unless the Kosovar Albanias do something truly stupid and come up with a Milosevic of their own (highly unlikely).
In my opinion, this whole sorry mess confirms one thing only; what goes around -- comes around.
Because Serbia was on the receiving end of NATO action, you complain about NATO overriding the UN. I'm sure you'd be singing a very different tune had the circumstances of the conflict between Serbs and Albanians been reversed.
The point is, the UN is a flawed institution. It comprises of countries that respect things such as life and human rights and other countries that just don't give a damn about such concepts, among them, Russia and China (veto holders).
For such a relatively small continent, Europe has had a very violent history with some of the worse atrocities known to mankind committed here. The Serb-Kosovar conflict was a European issue handled by a largely European alliance (NATO) of democracies, which by the way, Serbia will most likely join in the very near future.
I could not agree with you more on both sides being used as pawns.
That however, is only because for good or bad, both Albanians and Serbs ALLOWED themselves to be used as such. Neither side had enough guts to compromise and in doing so they allowed the big powers to do the deciding for them.
One compromise could have been; Serbia gets to keep northern Kosovo and the field of Gazimestan (or whatever it is that the Kosovo battle got fought on) while the Albanians go their own way with the rest of the province.
I'm convinced that Ceku will go through with the independence declaration if the present situation does not change. I'm also convinced that once that happens, the Kosovo Serbs will probably do the same.
I'm also sure that it will not come to violence. I think the Kosovar Albanians do realize that the northern Kosovo will be lost to them once unilateral independence is declared. Ironically, this may be the best possible solution for all sides ... and guess what, the peoples of the province will have decided for themselves for once.
Ment - If the situation you describe does materialise, i'd be happy with that. Like i said previously, that'll depend upon how that scenario fits in with Russia's and the USA's objectives. Who knows what they want and therefore what the future holds.
As for being manipulated - that's the story of the entire balkans. The USA, EU and Russia have been taken their interest into the area for years and the result being 10+ years of wars. Unless they can shake free from this influence, the trouble will only continue in the future.
The bottom line is that Serbia is adamant about KosovO remaining a part of Serbia.
The entire migration of the albanians who have invaded KosovO is due to the fact that there was something - some governmental power that prevented the albanians from staying in their country.
Hey , good afternoon,
your coment about contact group being a lobby for albanians, how naive of you- arent you aware that russia is member of contact group.
The Contact Group is nothing more than a lobby group for Albanian separatism. They can adopt a new "solution" which makes Athens the new capital of Albania but it has no law-making powers to bring that into effect.
In a wider context the planet faced a similar situation prior to World War II when the Imperial power of the time tried to usurp the League of Nations because of their greedy intent to change maps of sovereign nations (invasion -> annexation -> plunder). The UN has replaced the League of Nations but the Imperial power of today (the NATO Pact) is looking for a precedent which will give them carte blanche to redraw borders without UN approval effectively signaling the end of the UN. History keeps repeating itself with the same old actors taking center stage just with different costumes.
It's interesting to note your opinions on today's Contact Group and NATO.
Back in 1912, it was those same "imperial powers" that recognized Serbian sovereignty over occupied Kosovo as part of the sharing of spoils from the war with the Ottomans (Conference of Ambassadors in London). The Albanians living in Kosovo were naturally not asked about their opinion on the matter.
As if this wasn't bad enough, the Conference of Paris (of those same imperial powers) a couple of years later decided to do away with the entire concept of an "Albanian state" and just give the Serbs about a third to half of present day Albania. Thanks to the U.S. that did not happen.
In any case, justly or unjustly (depending on the point of view), Kosovo remained recognized as part of Serbia until now. It would have probably remained so for a long time to come had it not been for Milosevic.
Now, it is these same great powers (minus Russia) that will probably unilaterally recognize the independence of Kosovo. Once that happens, Serbia will kiss Kosovo goodbye and that will be the reality on the ground for a long time to come, unless the Kosovar Albanias do something truly stupid and come up with a Milosevic of their own (highly unlikely).
In my opinion, this whole sorry mess confirms one thing only; what goes around -- comes around.
I am a bit confused. Yesterday, the portugeese special representative of the ministry of foreign affairs said in Pristina that Portugal will support an independence for Kosovo even outside the UN. Also Condolisa Rice said in Lisabon, that Kosovo will be independent one way or the other. Will mr. Jeremic be able to change the mind of the Portugeese leaders??? I dont think so.
what is so funny about it, Albanians think "that that is it"!
unilateral declaration and recognition of "some important" countries is "more than enough" as one Albanian here has pointed out.
well if so, wonderful. that means, that sooner or later, "important" countries can and very likely will act contrary to a recognition, but Albanians won´t even realize it. and the really important thing, the ( real ) legal status, remains in place.
and criminals like ceku and taci will live somewhere else with the money that was originally meant to be spent for the K-albanians...
Because Serbia was on the receiving end of NATO action, you complain about NATO overriding the UN. I'm sure you'd be singing a very different tune had the circumstances of the conflict between Serbs and Albanians been reversed.
The point is, the UN is a flawed institution. It comprises of countries that respect things such as life and human rights and other countries that just don't give a damn about such concepts, among them, Russia and China (veto holders).
For such a relatively small continent, Europe has had a very violent history with some of the worse atrocities known to mankind committed here. The Serb-Kosovar conflict was a European issue handled by a largely European alliance (NATO) of democracies, which by the way, Serbia will most likely join in the very near future.
«Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić reiterated Thursday in Lisbon that Serbia was against imposed independence of Kosovo»
There is nothing being imposed in Kosovo: the independence is the wish of a majority in the land. And it is better than what Serbia would like to impose on Kosovo: status quo or imposed autonomy!
I could not agree with you more on both sides being used as pawns.
That however, is only because for good or bad, both Albanians and Serbs ALLOWED themselves to be used as such. Neither side had enough guts to compromise and in doing so they allowed the big powers to do the deciding for them.
One compromise could have been; Serbia gets to keep northern Kosovo and the field of Gazimestan (or whatever it is that the Kosovo battle got fought on) while the Albanians go their own way with the rest of the province.
I'm convinced that Ceku will go through with the independence declaration if the present situation does not change. I'm also convinced that once that happens, the Kosovo Serbs will probably do the same.
I'm also sure that it will not come to violence. I think the Kosovar Albanians do realize that the northern Kosovo will be lost to them once unilateral independence is declared. Ironically, this may be the best possible solution for all sides ... and guess what, the peoples of the province will have decided for themselves for once.
The United States is in no mood to "cooperate" with Serbia over Kosovo because it is looking, deseperately, for an international victory. We thought we could stabilize Afghanistan, and all we've done is stabilize Kabul. We thought we could change Iraq, and, well, you know the rest. Now we are looking for something less bold and more manageable, like Kosovo to put our name on. Why do you think my government is the loudest supporter of Kosovo's independence and is the most willing to hammer through its independence "one way or another?" The Bush Administration, which couldn't find its way out of an elevator, needs something to put down in the history books as an accomplishment.
Now let's discuss this idea of solutions to Kosovo taking place outside the UN. Let's say it comes to debate squarely within the EU. That removes the Russian obstacle for veto, yes, but it also removes the US for supporting unilateral acts of lunacy since neither of them are members of the EU. A 20+ member bureaucracy, where many states are less willing to grant Kosovo the degree of independence it wants, may actually come up with a fairer deal between Belgrade and Pristina. I doubt anyone can keep Kosovo from seceding, but I think the EU would be more willing to create a Kosovo in which power is shared between Albanians, Serbs, and EU high officials, similar to Bosnia. One of the main reasons, I think, for such intransigence over this region is that it is assumed the Albanians are going to be given power over everything, something the Serbs do not want, and the Albanians cannot achieve.
Good afternoon,
Nicely stated.
Kosovo will never be anything but Serbia proper and the most important fact is, Serbia will regain North from this while the South will put itself into worst possible state. It will economically starve its own citizens.
If the EU wants to offer a European solution then it must think outside the box and start offering carrots big enough to satisfy even Bugs Bunny.There is no legal way to revoke Serbia's deed to Kosovo acquired back in 1912 before Yugoslavia even existed and the drawing of pseudo political borders by the Communists.The EU needs to tell Serbs in Kosovo when they will join as citizens of Kosova or Serbia and tell Albanians when they will join as citizens of Serbia or of Kosova but either way partition will in fact happen de facto by both communities in Kosovo and will stay thus for the next 100 years.Cyprus is your perfect example.
In Iraq Bush has met his Waterloo at the hands of Islamists contrary to his early proclamation of MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.Unfortunately,this will be Bush's legacy and what a tragedy to be defined by history this way.In Kosovo for one split second he may think he has a minor victory.Time will tell.
Ment - Serbia and Kosovo are just pawns being used to play out the big powers wishes.
Without some sense being brought to the table the whole situation could turn really ugly.
We all know that the US and EU need compliant states in the Balkans to ensure that their energy pipelines will be safe running over them, so obviously Albania has become an important partner for the US and EU.
Will that partnership push Serbia too far? If Ceku announces independence in November, would he be prepared to take the northern part by force? would the US back him if he did?
If he annoounces independence and he does not try to take the north by force, then nothing will change. If he does, then i fear that contrary to what the Government in Belgrade has previously said, it wouldn't stand by if the northern part was invaded. That could drag in Russia, whose relations with the West at the moment are far from good.
Ment - If the situation you describe does materialise, i'd be happy with that. Like i said previously, that'll depend upon how that scenario fits in with Russia's and the USA's objectives. Who knows what they want and therefore what the future holds.
As for being manipulated - that's the story of the entire balkans. The USA, EU and Russia have been taken their interest into the area for years and the result being 10+ years of wars. Unless they can shake free from this influence, the trouble will only continue in the future.
The bottom line is that Serbia is adamant about KosovO remaining a part of Serbia.
The entire migration of the albanians who have invaded KosovO is due to the fact that there was something - some governmental power that prevented the albanians from staying in their country.
Hey , good afternoon,
your coment about contact group being a lobby for albanians, how naive of you- arent you aware that russia is member of contact group.
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