Kouchner urges patience in Kosovo

«He also appealed to Albanian leaders in Priština to engage in new talks over the future status of Kosovo. »

To engage in new talks! The only talks possible are those conducting to independence. Serbia has lost all its rights on Kosovo when Milosevic ordered the Serb troops to expulse Albanians from their lands and kill those who won't obey.

Kosovo is now an Al;banian land just as Bosnia is a Bosniak land, and Serbia a Serb land.

This man is two faced we all know whose side he took in Bosnia, Silajdzic,s. Serbs know kosovo is run by a criminal mafia clique and has not been in thier control since 1999. What saddens me is that Nato troops will do nothing to protect the minority population when the burning season starts.

So by your logic Victor, Croatia should lose all rights to the Krajina because they expelled hundreds of thousands of Serbs from there. Fair enough isnt it?

If the US and a few 'EU' states really want to start unraveling the UN then at least Russia & China and the rest of the world know where they stand. That said their escalation of ignoring the UN resolution that they formulated and signed POST-conflict (Victor take note of actual events 1244 signed and agreed after all you think provides justification) then it is very clear to the rest of the world that there is no world order and everyone should start thinking in such terms because this is the message that the US and a 'few' EU states are putting across. That they wish to annul the resolution that provides the legitamacy for NATO troops and wish to roll back events to before the 9th June 1999 is quite telling. It is a clear provocation and is a very sad reflection on the future.

Equally it is also very telling that this is only Kouchner mouthing off - the UK govt. are actually distancing themselves from the US unilateral approach.
BBC article: US and UK 'no longer inseparable'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6898587.stm

I would expect that there is going to be a serious debate in the EU regarding the way France seems to be heading unilaterally as it is clear that this is not an EU united message but of an individual Foreign Minister.

The Russians are not playing games and have withdrawn from the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty and as usch maybe they are looking for a western base?

Ray, This man is very realistic and is not two faced as you potraye it.This man knows this part of the world better than most of you that post coments everyay here yet you have never been in Kosova.

Bosniaks can only be serbs or croats, however serbs and croats are the majority in Bosnia. Victor is obviously impaired in his knowledge of the Balkans.

Victor wrote:
"Kosovo is now an Al;banian land just as Bosnia is a Bosniak land, and Serbia a Serb land."

Your funny Victor...

You've managed to create an imaginary country from a recognized people (Kosovo), and an imaginary people from a created country (Bosnia)...

"Serbia has lost all its rights on Kosovo when Milosevic...."

Enough with the "Catch phrases" ...

I think by now, everybody's moved beyond the wolf and lamb story....

One call and a generous political contribution from the chairman of Total to Sarkozy and this Kouchner guy may end up as ambassador to Lesotho.

yeah...Victor at his best...

Victor, can you tell me why a "democratic" country like the Republic of Croatia is allowing pro-fascist pop-bands to celebrate the darkest era of Croatia´s short history?

you don´t answer on those questions I am posing to you, I think it´s quite interesting to see that. you even did not condemn those ugly events in Zagreb´s biggest stadium "Maksimir"... so much for your credibility.

giving advise in regard to other countries while staying quiet if it is about the own one - you can be proud of you!

Surroi is playing his last cards... but, to make it clear, it´s not very wise being in the albanian position, to send out silly threats like this...

it IS actually just like he denies it to be, Albanians hope to be delivered what someone promised them...but, it seems like they´ve been duped.

how much more time will it take until they finally get it???

Victor if you want to apologize for refusing to comment on the killings of Serbs by Croat nationalists in the rowing Club and the shoe factory in Vukovar or the killings of prominent Serbs in Gospic before the war broke out Serbs would be very happy to accept your apology after which I am sure the Serbs would apologize to you for retaliating. You and the other like you were willing partners with NATO, cheering, flying the checkerboard but refusing to ask the question where this road will take us. If you had spoken out rather then saluting with both hands we might have prevented a war. We might have saved the lives of those innocent people who just wanted to feed their families and be good neighbors. All of us knew that the ugly head of nationalism would kill a nation. You did not speak because that is what you wanted but now you play the game of muddy the waters, deny, deny, deny so that those who did not want war you victimize for the second time. In my opinion, that makes you responsible for Gospic, Vukovar, Srebrenica, and Kosovo and every person who died in this NATO planned and organized crime. Instead of judging your neighbors by their character you demonized them while at the same time you saluted the pyromaniacs Tudjman and Izebegovich. You did not dare speak up and you and much of the media went on the attack against the few public figures who dared to question the nightmare Yugoslavs were about to enter. Answer the questions that are put to you Victor, even parrots can learn more than one phrase.

Listening to Kouchner, Ahtisaari, Polt, Fried, Van Joop, Wisner, and even Bush, et al., is exactly why the world MUST be cautious to resolving the Kosovo situation. These polits are just too set in their tracks, why? They are troubled, you can see it in their faces. Did they make a commitment years ago, they must fullfil? Is there a strategic agenda here? Are they afraid of personal Albanian reprisals? Did they take money? I jsy don't get it. Hopefully the dirty truth will surface. It CANNOT be for the love of Albanians, or the "humanitarian intervention" whitewash. I would love to be a fly on the wall.

Why is Kouchner kissing this ols Albanian dude? It seems like, "Good to see you again, how have you been"? Kouchner is an old Albanian Kosovo friend. A member of the old Clinton/Albright/Clark/Holbrook/Lantos, etc. team. This is so one-sided that it cannot be clearer. Russia must stop this imperialistic action from the West. Justice will prevail.

"Kouchner added that the goal of the new phase of negotiations was to see whether Russia would be “a part of the finalization of Kosovo’s status,“ stressing that if no agreement was reached, and Russia still objected, the independence of Kosovo "would have precedence over one country’s consent."

But without that one country's consent, Kosovo will be independent outside UN. No matter how you fudge the issue, UN membership remains the ultimate recognition of independence. Why else do you think every newly independent country (eg. Timor and Montenegro) seek UN membership the moment they declare independece? I should also like to correct Kouchner that it is actually more than one country's consent that independent Kosovo will need to seek. Don't expect China to warm to that idea anytime soon too.

The best argument pro-Serb posters here come up with here is that an independent Kosova somehow unravels the world order. Why? Because in their eyes, this impinges on the sovereignty of Serbia. It was exactly the same argument Milosevic used to justify his crimes in 1999. That is why Kosova is being taken away from it. It's pitiful for Princip to advocate Russia and China as champions of a new better world. You are not doing yourself any favours with such arguments.

Guy’s,

I think it’s obvious that America will push for recognising Kosovo independently of the UN, this message is rather clear. It’s all about dividing an conquering, instability provides the US with excuses to pursue it’s own hidden agenda’s regardless whether economic or militarily..

At the end of the day, Kosovo will be recognised by some countries, Kosovo will have its own flag, its own President etc etc though what it wont have is a seat in the UN, it wont have an official army, nor would it be able to participate in the world cup… Kosovo will be in the same dilemma as it is now.. very dependant on external entities.

Put simply, whatever the resolution, the Balkans wont be any better off. Look at previous quick fixes implemented in previous Balkan wars, they didn’t fix anything, they simply postponed the underlying conflicts for a future date.

And claiming that Serbia forfeited its right to Kosovo in 98/99 is absolute rubbish, using this logic would mean that the Tutsi’s should separate from the Hutus, the Bosnian Muslims should separate from Bosnia, the Kurds from both Turkish and Iraqi brutality. I’m not denying that Serbian troops committed crimes in 98/99, though not on the scale seen in Rwanda, Iraq etc etc and besides the Albanians have been engaged in Ethnic cleansing of there own dating back from Ottoman rule which provided for special privileges for Muslim Subjects, in WWI & WWII, and the nineties up until today, its obviously an ongoing process which over the centuries has been fruitful for the Albanian cause..

At the end of the day, the Albanians have been and are implementing an extreme nationalistic agenda, one based on no other argument than that they were the sole inhabitants of Balkans, as a result all brutality and aggression towards non Albanians is justified. Albania as been independent for nearly 100 years now, this country has not contributed to peace, science or humanity. I really don’t believe how an additional Albanian state or an extension to the current Albanian state will bring peace to the Balkans..

One more question can anyone explain to me logically how Kosovo’s population density is 220 /km² as against Albania’s 123 /km² ??

Cheers and all the best here from Australia..

Jovan, why are you asking Victor to answer your question about Republic of Croatia, when Victor and I have challenged al of you serb camp to give us an honest to god answer; " How serbia will be able to rule Kosova if Kosova was not granted Independence?", we are still waitting for an answer that none of you know the answer.

Captain dragan(yat sailor maybe)
I got one thing for you and remeber very well:" Serbian boot will never ever agin patrol the border line along the Albanina , Macedonian and Montenegirain border with Kosova. The onl;y border they will b estationed will be on their side along Serbia-KOSOVA border line.

«Victor, can you tell me why a "democratic" country like the Republic of Croatia is allowing pro-fascist pop-bands to celebrate the darkest era of Croatia´s short history?»

Jovan, this show should have not been allowed. Pro-Nazix and pro-fascists should be sent to jail. I have sent an email to the Croatian embassy in Canada to express my anger! I understand your anger, and be sure that I feel the same, even though I am not from the Balkans.

Albania as been independent for nearly 100 years now, this country has not contributed to peace, science or humanity.

You are very quick to point fingers, but look at your own Serbia before looking down on other countries. By your logic, since Serbia has produced wars, rapes, pillage,murders, human suffering, war criminals etc,etc then Serbia as state and as a nation is not any good, it should cease to exist. Then again by your logic, it would be better to have an independent Kosovo/a which "produces nothing" for the humanity, rather than have it under a state which produces all the horrendous things for the humanity, which I described earlier.
Then again I can't stop but apply your logic. We produce Mother Theresa while you produce Milosevic, Mladic, Karadjic, and all the different varieties of war criminals. Now B92 most likely won't like this comment and might decide not to publish it as it is generalizing and identifies a whole nation with th names I mentioned before, but if they are playing a fair game and are not the mouthpiece of "Serbian Supremacy" then they should publish it just like they publish Dragan's generalizing and demeaning comment.

Victor & Ahmet,
Rule who? The alnanians in Kosovo, I tell you something, if you turn off the lights, eventually someone stands up and says, PLEASE TURN THEM ON! If you have a prospering economy next door, eventually someone stands up and says, PLEASE LET US HAVE THE SAME! However you want to look at it, Serbia will be the economic power of the Balkans, with its smart young people, Christian morals and proper financial management. Irrespective of what your leaders are telling you, Kosovo will not be gaining indpendence any time soon and should there be violence, we all know who will start that, look out for a change in public opinion.

My dear friends
I have read your postings silently for a while and I just could not stand it but had to pose a question.
What will happen if russia would either give in or is bypassed by just about everybody else in the world? Would the forum writers of serbian origin simply forget that this forum ever existed? Or would they ask themselves an honest question that would actually apply to the situation. 'Did we simply place all of our eggs in one basket (Russia)'? 'Did our nation deserve to "depend" on russians'?...
The circumstances at the moment are for independence. If this momentum changes, however, albanians will still be the majority and in charge. Serbs would definitely not gain out of this. The only outcome that would be independence right away, later, or not, it would most likely result in a great desperation of serbs realizing that they have been played, lied, and betrayed by their leaders.
I do not think that conscious Albanians and Serbs should want an ethnicaly homogeneous state. Not everybody should pay for the sins of a few...
Balkan history does not show us different. I hope that does not happen. I hope to see that for once the two nations can resolve the issue for once in their history. More over, if this does not happen, I lastly hope that international community would flex thei might and wisdom and resolve this issue.

Victor & Ahmet,
Rule who? The alnanians in Kosovo, I tell you something, if you turn off the lights, eventually someone stands up and says, PLEASE TURN THEM ON! If you have a prospering economy next door, eventually someone stands up and says, PLEASE LET US HAVE THE SAME! However you want to look at it, Serbia will be the economic power of the Balkans, with its smart young people, Christian morals and proper financial management. Irrespective of what your leaders are telling you, Kosovo will not be gaining indpendence any time soon and should there be violence, we all know who will start that, look out for a change in public opinion.

«He also appealed to Albanian leaders in Priština to engage in new talks over the future status of Kosovo. »

To engage in new talks! The only talks possible are those conducting to independence. Serbia has lost all its rights on Kosovo when Milosevic ordered the Serb troops to expulse Albanians from their lands and kill those who won't obey.

Kosovo is now an Al;banian land just as Bosnia is a Bosniak land, and Serbia a Serb land.

This man is two faced we all know whose side he took in Bosnia, Silajdzic,s. Serbs know kosovo is run by a criminal mafia clique and has not been in thier control since 1999. What saddens me is that Nato troops will do nothing to protect the minority population when the burning season starts.

So by your logic Victor, Croatia should lose all rights to the Krajina because they expelled hundreds of thousands of Serbs from there. Fair enough isnt it?

If the US and a few 'EU' states really want to start unraveling the UN then at least Russia & China and the rest of the world know where they stand. That said their escalation of ignoring the UN resolution that they formulated and signed POST-conflict (Victor take note of actual events 1244 signed and agreed after all you think provides justification) then it is very clear to the rest of the world that there is no world order and everyone should start thinking in such terms because this is the message that the US and a 'few' EU states are putting across. That they wish to annul the resolution that provides the legitamacy for NATO troops and wish to roll back events to before the 9th June 1999 is quite telling. It is a clear provocation and is a very sad reflection on the future.

Equally it is also very telling that this is only Kouchner mouthing off - the UK govt. are actually distancing themselves from the US unilateral approach.
BBC article: US and UK 'no longer inseparable'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6898587.stm

I would expect that there is going to be a serious debate in the EU regarding the way France seems to be heading unilaterally as it is clear that this is not an EU united message but of an individual Foreign Minister.

The Russians are not playing games and have withdrawn from the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty and as usch maybe they are looking for a western base?

Ray, This man is very realistic and is not two faced as you potraye it.This man knows this part of the world better than most of you that post coments everyay here yet you have never been in Kosova.

Bosniaks can only be serbs or croats, however serbs and croats are the majority in Bosnia. Victor is obviously impaired in his knowledge of the Balkans.

Victor wrote:
"Kosovo is now an Al;banian land just as Bosnia is a Bosniak land, and Serbia a Serb land."

Your funny Victor...

You've managed to create an imaginary country from a recognized people (Kosovo), and an imaginary people from a created country (Bosnia)...

"Serbia has lost all its rights on Kosovo when Milosevic...."

Enough with the "Catch phrases" ...

I think by now, everybody's moved beyond the wolf and lamb story....

One call and a generous political contribution from the chairman of Total to Sarkozy and this Kouchner guy may end up as ambassador to Lesotho.

yeah...Victor at his best...

Victor, can you tell me why a "democratic" country like the Republic of Croatia is allowing pro-fascist pop-bands to celebrate the darkest era of Croatia´s short history?

you don´t answer on those questions I am posing to you, I think it´s quite interesting to see that. you even did not condemn those ugly events in Zagreb´s biggest stadium "Maksimir"... so much for your credibility.

giving advise in regard to other countries while staying quiet if it is about the own one - you can be proud of you!

Surroi is playing his last cards... but, to make it clear, it´s not very wise being in the albanian position, to send out silly threats like this...

it IS actually just like he denies it to be, Albanians hope to be delivered what someone promised them...but, it seems like they´ve been duped.

how much more time will it take until they finally get it???

Victor if you want to apologize for refusing to comment on the killings of Serbs by Croat nationalists in the rowing Club and the shoe factory in Vukovar or the killings of prominent Serbs in Gospic before the war broke out Serbs would be very happy to accept your apology after which I am sure the Serbs would apologize to you for retaliating. You and the other like you were willing partners with NATO, cheering, flying the checkerboard but refusing to ask the question where this road will take us. If you had spoken out rather then saluting with both hands we might have prevented a war. We might have saved the lives of those innocent people who just wanted to feed their families and be good neighbors. All of us knew that the ugly head of nationalism would kill a nation. You did not speak because that is what you wanted but now you play the game of muddy the waters, deny, deny, deny so that those who did not want war you victimize for the second time. In my opinion, that makes you responsible for Gospic, Vukovar, Srebrenica, and Kosovo and every person who died in this NATO planned and organized crime. Instead of judging your neighbors by their character you demonized them while at the same time you saluted the pyromaniacs Tudjman and Izebegovich. You did not dare speak up and you and much of the media went on the attack against the few public figures who dared to question the nightmare Yugoslavs were about to enter. Answer the questions that are put to you Victor, even parrots can learn more than one phrase.

Listening to Kouchner, Ahtisaari, Polt, Fried, Van Joop, Wisner, and even Bush, et al., is exactly why the world MUST be cautious to resolving the Kosovo situation. These polits are just too set in their tracks, why? They are troubled, you can see it in their faces. Did they make a commitment years ago, they must fullfil? Is there a strategic agenda here? Are they afraid of personal Albanian reprisals? Did they take money? I jsy don't get it. Hopefully the dirty truth will surface. It CANNOT be for the love of Albanians, or the "humanitarian intervention" whitewash. I would love to be a fly on the wall.

Why is Kouchner kissing this ols Albanian dude? It seems like, "Good to see you again, how have you been"? Kouchner is an old Albanian Kosovo friend. A member of the old Clinton/Albright/Clark/Holbrook/Lantos, etc. team. This is so one-sided that it cannot be clearer. Russia must stop this imperialistic action from the West. Justice will prevail.

"Kouchner added that the goal of the new phase of negotiations was to see whether Russia would be “a part of the finalization of Kosovo’s status,“ stressing that if no agreement was reached, and Russia still objected, the independence of Kosovo "would have precedence over one country’s consent."

But without that one country's consent, Kosovo will be independent outside UN. No matter how you fudge the issue, UN membership remains the ultimate recognition of independence. Why else do you think every newly independent country (eg. Timor and Montenegro) seek UN membership the moment they declare independece? I should also like to correct Kouchner that it is actually more than one country's consent that independent Kosovo will need to seek. Don't expect China to warm to that idea anytime soon too.

The best argument pro-Serb posters here come up with here is that an independent Kosova somehow unravels the world order. Why? Because in their eyes, this impinges on the sovereignty of Serbia. It was exactly the same argument Milosevic used to justify his crimes in 1999. That is why Kosova is being taken away from it. It's pitiful for Princip to advocate Russia and China as champions of a new better world. You are not doing yourself any favours with such arguments.

Guy’s,

I think it’s obvious that America will push for recognising Kosovo independently of the UN, this message is rather clear. It’s all about dividing an conquering, instability provides the US with excuses to pursue it’s own hidden agenda’s regardless whether economic or militarily..

At the end of the day, Kosovo will be recognised by some countries, Kosovo will have its own flag, its own President etc etc though what it wont have is a seat in the UN, it wont have an official army, nor would it be able to participate in the world cup… Kosovo will be in the same dilemma as it is now.. very dependant on external entities.

Put simply, whatever the resolution, the Balkans wont be any better off. Look at previous quick fixes implemented in previous Balkan wars, they didn’t fix anything, they simply postponed the underlying conflicts for a future date.

And claiming that Serbia forfeited its right to Kosovo in 98/99 is absolute rubbish, using this logic would mean that the Tutsi’s should separate from the Hutus, the Bosnian Muslims should separate from Bosnia, the Kurds from both Turkish and Iraqi brutality. I’m not denying that Serbian troops committed crimes in 98/99, though not on the scale seen in Rwanda, Iraq etc etc and besides the Albanians have been engaged in Ethnic cleansing of there own dating back from Ottoman rule which provided for special privileges for Muslim Subjects, in WWI & WWII, and the nineties up until today, its obviously an ongoing process which over the centuries has been fruitful for the Albanian cause..

At the end of the day, the Albanians have been and are implementing an extreme nationalistic agenda, one based on no other argument than that they were the sole inhabitants of Balkans, as a result all brutality and aggression towards non Albanians is justified. Albania as been independent for nearly 100 years now, this country has not contributed to peace, science or humanity. I really don’t believe how an additional Albanian state or an extension to the current Albanian state will bring peace to the Balkans..

One more question can anyone explain to me logically how Kosovo’s population density is 220 /km² as against Albania’s 123 /km² ??

Cheers and all the best here from Australia..

Jovan, why are you asking Victor to answer your question about Republic of Croatia, when Victor and I have challenged al of you serb camp to give us an honest to god answer; " How serbia will be able to rule Kosova if Kosova was not granted Independence?", we are still waitting for an answer that none of you know the answer.

Captain dragan(yat sailor maybe)
I got one thing for you and remeber very well:" Serbian boot will never ever agin patrol the border line along the Albanina , Macedonian and Montenegirain border with Kosova. The onl;y border they will b estationed will be on their side along Serbia-KOSOVA border line.

«Victor, can you tell me why a "democratic" country like the Republic of Croatia is allowing pro-fascist pop-bands to celebrate the darkest era of Croatia´s short history?»

Jovan, this show should have not been allowed. Pro-Nazix and pro-fascists should be sent to jail. I have sent an email to the Croatian embassy in Canada to express my anger! I understand your anger, and be sure that I feel the same, even though I am not from the Balkans.

Albania as been independent for nearly 100 years now, this country has not contributed to peace, science or humanity.

You are very quick to point fingers, but look at your own Serbia before looking down on other countries. By your logic, since Serbia has produced wars, rapes, pillage,murders, human suffering, war criminals etc,etc then Serbia as state and as a nation is not any good, it should cease to exist. Then again by your logic, it would be better to have an independent Kosovo/a which "produces nothing" for the humanity, rather than have it under a state which produces all the horrendous things for the humanity, which I described earlier.
Then again I can't stop but apply your logic. We produce Mother Theresa while you produce Milosevic, Mladic, Karadjic, and all the different varieties of war criminals. Now B92 most likely won't like this comment and might decide not to publish it as it is generalizing and identifies a whole nation with th names I mentioned before, but if they are playing a fair game and are not the mouthpiece of "Serbian Supremacy" then they should publish it just like they publish Dragan's generalizing and demeaning comment.

My dear friends
I have read your postings silently for a while and I just could not stand it but had to pose a question.
What will happen if russia would either give in or is bypassed by just about everybody else in the world? Would the forum writers of serbian origin simply forget that this forum ever existed? Or would they ask themselves an honest question that would actually apply to the situation. 'Did we simply place all of our eggs in one basket (Russia)'? 'Did our nation deserve to "depend" on russians'?...
The circumstances at the moment are for independence. If this momentum changes, however, albanians will still be the majority and in charge. Serbs would definitely not gain out of this. The only outcome that would be independence right away, later, or not, it would most likely result in a great desperation of serbs realizing that they have been played, lied, and betrayed by their leaders.
I do not think that conscious Albanians and Serbs should want an ethnicaly homogeneous state. Not everybody should pay for the sins of a few...
Balkan history does not show us different. I hope that does not happen. I hope to see that for once the two nations can resolve the issue for once in their history. More over, if this does not happen, I lastly hope that international community would flex thei might and wisdom and resolve this issue.