UN to debate latest Kosovo draft Monday

Jon, are you serious? You clearer don't understand that you are NOT independent now nor will you be, its obvious to any sensible person. It is over, all that is happening now is a lot of scrambling around from the USA to save face. But hey! don't take my word for it, wait and see. Monday Russia will say NO and America will come back with more rhetoric which will lead no where but it will excite you and many other Albanins thus the nonsense continues. America is waiting for the Albanians to become violent so that America can then back out of the mess they created for themselves, its the only way out for them now... but I congratulate the people of Kosovo for not falling into this trap. Obviously the Americans have underestimated the Albanians, the Serbians and the Russians, a triple blunder.

Eagle,

What are you going to say when Monday comes and passes and nothing happens except more foolish talk? Are you going to still say > "Look like everything is taking place just as it was supposed to be."
The Americans don't care about you, if they had they wouldn't be making promises they know they cannot deliver, so far Russia has delivered its promise to Serbia but America has failed the Albanians.

Good if they can move forward with a proper Resolution but only if it acknowledges Serbian sovereignty, the planned return of displaced people, and the protection of heritage by rolling in the contents of 1244. This also involved working with Serbian police and troops to a logical extent, such as the protection of sites.

At this point there should be no hidden agenda. Basically 1244 updated, and this time the resolution, if agreed by Russia, should actually be implemented properly.

Time for the US to stop interfering. If they want to handover to the EU then make it realistic and not a disguised basis for independence.

I am interested to know what people think would happen if an agreement was not reached through the UN and then the US supported a unilateral declaration of independence.

The EU would be split even further and the troops on the ground, who are there under a Nato mandate, would have to leave. If civillian lives were risked so terribly during the bombing campaign to avoid loss of pilots by flying at 15,000 feet, and no land army was put in peril, does anyone think that they would be prepared to fight on the ground unless under the Nato/ UN umbrella? Especially on behalf of the KLA against the army of a sovereign UN state?

Plus 1244 would still exist without going through due procedure at the UN, which means that the UN would be obligated to carry out their mission until there was a proper agreement to end or change it.

Not so straight forward. I am interested in the mechanics of what would happen in this situation. Sounds extremely dangerous to me.

kate
"but only if it acknowledges Serbian sovereignty involved, working with Serbian police and troops to a logical extent".Serbian police logic??? Ask the serbs what they think of their own police!Oh i forgot your no serb neither from kosovo. might es well return to the pre-war days. Hope the serbian side can reincarnate the people they killed and tortured, give them back all their right they ever wanted, apologies and leave em alone forever.

Kate,
It always amazes me that a person like you - who according to your own acknowledgement is not Serb and has no Serbian connection whatsoever - has so much time and interest to defend the Serbian cause with so much zeal and obsession. If you are not Serb than most likely you are maried to a Serb or have a Serb boyfriend. That is OK with everybody. The real funny scenario is when you try to make believe that you have no Serbian connection at all and you spend hours on B92 out of love for justice for Serbia. It will be interesting to hear from you. Have a nice day!

Kate,
Finally they told the Russians, iether you go with the plan or you're out.
Lets stop deceiving ourselves, Kosovo is en route to be Independent, but that does not mean that is going in another planet.
Just the jurisdiction and the people managing it are changed.
Anybody who likes to visit Kosovo from North American Continent can hop on a direct flight from NYC to Pristina.

Whatever is going to be decided on the topic of kosova,will have nothing to do with russia. Russia is just making noise like a dog that BARK'S no bite .They are hoping to make either a finacal or territorial gain smewhere else. The odds seem to be in favor of the kosovars but i don't foresee it being as complete a victory as some might think

Kate,

you are absolutely spot on and I have to say that it is unfortunate and extremly sad that the US & a 'few' European states are now quite happy to pull back to events proir to 9th June 1999 - after all they said their intervention was "humanitarian". Such actions as they are following now show their disregard for the very resolution they formulated and signed on the 10th June 1999 and will ask the Russian question of which is it to be Sovereignity or self determination? This is not a good way forward but the US seem determined to stop the jaw-jaw and we all know what happens when jaw-jaw is stopped.

I think it is telling that the Russians have withdrawn from CFE treaty this morning and they are not bluffing nor is Serbia.

Kate,

I feel sorry for some people (like yourself) that cannot see the reality. Kosova is going to be Indipendent, weather you like it or not. The facts are that NATO is in Kosovo now, and is controlling the region, Not Russia or Serbia. I feel sorry for you guys sticking on a dead subject. It will be better if you concentrate and make remaining Serbia more democratic, mafia free, old komunist party free, and concentrate in joining the EU as soon as possible. You will have more benefits in this solution, than waisting time on something that has been resolved long time ago and it does not belong to Serbia anyway. EU will allow free movements to people anywhere they like.

At last Kosova issue looks like is moving ahead

With or without Russia consent Kosova is going to be independent country
No UN Resolution = Declare the independence
Independence at first recognised by US and some EU countries
At later stages by other countries Russia and Serbian politicians not the nationalist
In distant future join the EU. No need for UN seat anymore
No major disturbances except for the independence day party 
US,UK,FR and Ger. troops together with 8000 KPS police and 3000+ KPC provide security
People living normal everyday life just with a problem less
At early stages ties with Albania strengthened in order to get as much as possible financial support through them
Human Rights are already respected in a same level like in some of the EU countries
Other negative

Kate, 1244 is not being mentioned anywhere. You’re the only one that mentions 1244

Serbia to remove these politicians and apply reforms in every walk of life same as in Kosova
IDP from Kosova to return if they still own property if not, good luck to them

If this goes to vote then fine. The Russians have been only to open and honest about what they will do - the US can carry on with the deaf and blind routine but they really have little grounds for movement once the NYET is said.

The Russians are already making the position clear that even if the Ethnic-Albanians declare unilaterally there is very little that the US can do and it will be with less effect then the previous illegal unilateral declaration in the early 90's.

"" - First, that would run counter to UN Security Council Resolution 1244, which reaffirms the territorial integrity of Yugoslavia, and therefore its legal successor, Serbia," Dronov said.

" - Second, the EU mission will be out on a limb, because it received its mandate from the UN Security Council. And third, it will create a precedent." In that case, Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will demand the same treatment, news agency RIA Novosti reported

Since today's Kosovo is the result of a UN resolution which guarantees Serbia's territorial integrity, independence is not legally possible through a unilateral declaration of independence.

Transnistria, however, has no such restraint or limitation upon it since its current status is not based on any involvement by the United Nations and is also not created by a foreign-led NATO war.

It is natural that Kosovo's leaders now want to do the same since most of the current nations of the world in their current form came into existence by the will of its people through the application of the principles of self-determination or a declaration of independence, or both. But as a UN protectorate, established and run by the UN, Kosovo is unique because its status can not be changed without UN consent.

A democratic independence referendum - if agreed to with the United Nations, even if Serbia does not agree - would probably offer a way out."

- everything has to be agreed in the UN for the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija and seeing as the Russians have been only to open and honest I really can't expect the US and the 'few' European antions to act surprised and shocked in a big fat NO on Monady if they want a vote!

But the story won't end there when that happens we still face continued talks seeing as jaw-jaw is preferable to war-war! There will be no Independence and no Illegal declarations or recognition and no violenece because NATO will act.

Kate, what are you talking about? Which civilians, what pilots, why at 15.000 feet, why KLA, which land army and why fight, and whom, and what mechanics, why dangerous? What are you trying to say?

Serb contributers here (Kate, princip) seem to have pinned all their hopes on NATO to keep Kosovo in Serbia. Isn't that funny?

What would happen if Russia vetos, is that what you're asking, Kate?

Here: Nato & KPS resumes its tasks on all borders with Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro. Drones keep up the work, missiles on standby.
Russia is backlisted to 2099 for wto. Serbia is blacklisted from wto, eu, free visa eu travel, loans are called in by IMP/World bank on Russia and Serbia, Mladic/karadjic is picked up or assassinated by un troops, all Serbian leaders are blacklisted from eu travel (except for greece/cyprus/libya lol), Kosova parliament meets, votes on declaration of Independence, unanimous vote-considering Serbs still boycott it, and they could have had a veto on it, had they participated.
Everyone recognizes Kosova.

Serbia is out of this endgame forever, unless it wants to shed blood over Kosova. I highly doubt it, considering pensioners, housewives and lazar groups hardly makes a dent in Serbian social network, let alone in the harsh realities of war.

Kate and princip which part you you don’t understand of
"In an effort to get Russian support, the draft calls for 120 days of negotiations between Belgrade and Priština, but drops an automatic trigger of Ahtisaari’s plan that would lead to Kosovo's independence, as contained in earlier drafts. " …” Khalilzad said if Russia continued to object "this will not stop the situation from going forward, but it will be outside the Security Council framework, which is not what we want."


read read read and stop lying yourself and giving fake hopes to the serbian people who live in serbia.

Princip,

Independence or not, UN or not, at the end of the day you STILL wont be able to come and visit the "holy cradle of your civilisation" as a ruler or master.

Serbia has lost every war and political conflict since 1991 because of its greed for territory and power over others.

You can talk all you want about the UN and Russia all day long but at the end of the day its going to the the people of Kosova that will decide their own future.

Forgot to includ ethe link to the quotes I gave above from the head of the Russian mission in Kosovo Andrei Dronov
http://www.tiraspoltimes.com/node/1079

Laki,

have you not read, read, read that the Russians have rejected the 5th "cosmetic" redrafting because it was the same as the last four but in a poor attempt to cover up with "diplomatic" words.

I don't want the jaw-jaw to stop but it is clearly that if this is fprced into the UN SC that it will be rejected - no surprise there but I guess the US will act shocked - but then they do have the best movie industry in the world and acting is something they are very good at - even acting like a friend!!!

the best way that Serbia's Government must take is, to accept reality and new state of Kosovo, by the way Serbia and Kosovo will be together in Europe and serbs in Kosovo will not loose nothing. If Serbia chooses the old school of Miloseviq with contrarinnes to all the world and always looking in the past, then Serbia will loose more its territory untill it will be too late for compuntction. Serbian people must decide for his future, so JUST DO IT, recognize the Kosovo with Ahtisari's plan and don't let the serbs in Kosovo without anything. By the other way, Who knows what will happen if Kosovo takes fully Independence.

Jon, you will not have free movement through Serbia, for sure.

The Russians & Chinese will be double vetoing once more (as they did in January) in the UN. It is interesting that there are similarities to the message from Russia & China to the US then;
""I hope some of our partners also learned some lessons in the course of this entire process," Russia's UN ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, said. China's envoy Wang Guangya told reporters the United States acted like it was the only permanent council member."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-01/13/content_782772.htm
- it would seem that the US are acting deaf when it comes to the message that both China & Russia have made themselves more then clear on factors that are internal to a Sovereign state.

If this folly is presented as a resolution in the UN on Monday one should be only too aware how both will vote.
Lavrov on Russian - Chinese standpoint;
“Our relations are characterised by our total mutual understanding regarding the foreign policy agenda and respect the supremacy of the law and the UN’s central role. These are our positions on the issues of strategic stability in definite critical situations, including the nuclear problem of North Korea and Iran, Kosovo, Darfur and other international crises,”
http://www.neurope.eu/view_news.php?id=76061

The US need to realise that foolish unilateral actions have many consequences on the global level and given that the UK is already distancing itself from US foreign policy I doubt the UK is willing to create another challenge beyond Iraq & Afghanistan - unless they wish to create a distraction from the mess they are in but making a bigger mess really won't reslove the earlier mess. Kosovo & Metohija is and always will be integral to Serbia and as such Serbia's agreement on what it wishes to do with it's province is matter for it to resolve with it's citizens.

Tuesday will come again and there will be;
NO Independence,
NO Illegal declaration
NO Illegal recognition
NO Violence - NATO will act.

If the U.S. is going to bypass the UN security council, then the rule of law means nothing to the U.S. But of course, we all know that the rule of law has never mattered to the U.S. The U.S. only follows laws when it suits its own interests. Whenever there are laws that do not favor the U.S.'s position, the U.S. bypasses them; however, the U.S. always feels it is totally unacceptable for any other country to break international law. The U.S clearly operates with a double standard. Every country in the world has to follow the rules, except for the U.S.

This is what's going to happen.

If this resolution does NOT gets approved on Monday or this coming week then US and EU are going to take over controll in Kosovo; or Kosovo'a parliament is going to declare independence and whoever wants to recognize Kosovo as a country they will be wellcome. All we need US and some of EU countries to recognize us as a state. Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro are pretty much ready to recognize Kosovo, and that's immportant since they are on Kosovo's border. Also UK, Germany, Holand, Sweeden and other Western Coountries are ready to do so. Next thing we have to is to build a concrete wall in the north just as US did to Mexican border!

Albanian commentators, please stop your pitying of Serbians, and your belief that we do not understand the news, and your conviction that Kosovo independence is a done deal. I always thought Albanians disliked Serbs, why feel sorry for us? Anyway, Kosovo is far from a done deal. You are being very condescending, and there is no need for that. Just state your own opinion and move on........The latest developments in Russia's arms agreement with NATO will prove quite interesting, and may very well come into play in Kosovo's status resolution. I have said this before, it is not 1999 anymore and the world's power players have changed. Good luck to all.

Well, well, this topic seems to be reserved today mostly to Kate and Princip. I was censured twice. That tells me that Monday's debate at the UN will be very important in the eyes of the Serbs.

"Kate, 1244 is not being mentioned anywhere. You’re the only one that mentions 1244

(Olf, Saturday, 14 July, 2007, 15:41) "

1244 is already enshrined in the UN. It doesn't make any difference whether it is mentioned once or a million times by anybody.

Ahtissari's proposals, on the other hand, has not been approved by the UNSC. So it makes a lot of difference how many times they mention his proposals and what they say about them ..... they still mention his proposals .... previously they mention about how Mosocow will abstain from voting .... but nowadays it is more about these proposals not being automatic anymore ..... as I see it, its only a matter of time before they abandon the proposals altogether ... and then stop talking about them completely. You see the difference?

"Khalilzad said Russia's UN ambassador Vitaly Churkin had not flatly rejected the draft, despite negative comments on Thursday from Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

He said Churkin had asked for clarification of some provisions of the text, but that the "core" of the resolution would not be changed, although some "wording at the margins" might be.

Khalilzad said if Russia continued to object "this will not stop the situation from going forward, but it will be outside the Security Council framework, which is not what we want."

Asked if Russia was threatening to veto the resolution, he quoted Churkin as saying, "I did not say rejection."

"We have to wait for the final word for clarity in regard to their position," Khalilzad said."

This Khalilzad was the same man who talked about "excitement for the next 10 days in the UN" over the Kosovo issue ..... how he can treat as exciting or exhilarating such a really serious issue is beyond me.

Anyway, his latest comments only show how desperate he really is, practically clutching at straws. I still remember US diplomats a few months back quoting Russian comments "do not support the resolution" as meaning they will abstain rather than vote against the resolution. The US seemed to require the Russians to state the word "oppose" in every statement made.

The US is now into their 5th draft resolution, hoping to win Moscow's (and Beijing's) approval. It should be clear to the US how self-deluding they have been all these months about semantics from Russian statements.

Look like everything is taking place just as it was supposed to be. Do NOT forget what Bush said; "one day we have to say, enough is enough Kosovo is independent"; and seemes to me that US is going to make it happen. US is tired of Russians. I know Americans, when they want to do something they'll do it no matter what; and look like thet have made decision to recognize Kosovo as a country even if new resolution does not get approved into UN/SC.

Would America have a military base into Serbian soil rather than friednly K-Albanian soil? Someone please answer me this question.
If US didn't plan to stay long time or maybe forever in Kosovo they would NOT build such a huge military camp ( i can easy call it military base).

Look like a final "divorce" is happening!

Princip,

You are right the Myanmar UN resolution vas Vetoed by both China and Russia in January 2007 . Also South African Republic voted "NO".
The countries that voted yes were US, UK, France, Belgium, and Italy as the biggest democracies in the world and the other countries were Ghana, Peru, Panama and Slovakia.
The "in favour" voting countries were urging Myanmar to release all political prisoners, move toward democracy and stop forced labour. So I can see their concern.
On the other hand I can also see the concern of China, Russia and South Africa- the countries were things like these still happen. No wonder they vetoed the resolution.
So it is clear that Russia and China are indeed forging a “partnership” with regards to their Foreign Policies or might we say” Not supporting anything that comes from the US”.
But what it is not clear is that no one knows what will be the outcome of the UN resolution about Kosova or indeed if the Unilateral independence is declared by either the parliament of Kosova or through a Referendum, what would the reactions from the International Community be. I as an Albanian both wish and hope that they will be positive for us.
You strike me as a quite knowledgeable person. However your comments about your certainty of the outcome of the Kosova issue in UN is somewhat degrading the truth of my previous sentence.
As one proverb goes “ Ignorance is bliss”, there is another that goes “Arrogance diminishes wisdom”.

Thanks

Good to see our 'Eagle' is still in la la land.

Ambassador Khalizad has to remember the saying articulated once upon a time by by the US President D.Eisenhower who observed that sometimes it is advisable to understand the other person's stance through his own eyes. In case of Kosovo, Your Excellency, you yavo to talk to people of Serbia first before writing a prescription what to do with this legitimate part of Serbia (at least see Res 1244).

What would happen if Russia vetos, is that what you're asking, Kate?

Here: Nato & KPS resumes its tasks on all borders with Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro. Drones keep up the work, missiles on standby.
Russia is backlisted to 2099 for wto. Serbia is blacklisted from wto, eu, free visa eu travel, loans are called in by IMP/World bank on Russia and Serbia, Mladic/karadjic is picked up or assassinated by un troops, all Serbian leaders are blacklisted from eu travel (except for greece/cyprus/libya lol), Kosova parliament meets, votes on declaration of Independence, unanimous vote-considering Serbs still boycott it, and they could have had a veto on it, had they participated.
Everyone recognizes Kosova.

Serbia is out of this endgame forever, unless it wants to shed blood over Kosova. I highly doubt it, considering pensioners, housewives and lazar groups hardly makes a dent in Serbian social network, let alone in the harsh realities of war.

This is what's going to happen.

If this resolution does NOT gets approved on Monday or this coming week then US and EU are going to take over controll in Kosovo; or Kosovo'a parliament is going to declare independence and whoever wants to recognize Kosovo as a country they will be wellcome. All we need US and some of EU countries to recognize us as a state. Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro are pretty much ready to recognize Kosovo, and that's immportant since they are on Kosovo's border. Also UK, Germany, Holand, Sweeden and other Western Coountries are ready to do so. Next thing we have to is to build a concrete wall in the north just as US did to Mexican border!

Good if they can move forward with a proper Resolution but only if it acknowledges Serbian sovereignty, the planned return of displaced people, and the protection of heritage by rolling in the contents of 1244. This also involved working with Serbian police and troops to a logical extent, such as the protection of sites.

At this point there should be no hidden agenda. Basically 1244 updated, and this time the resolution, if agreed by Russia, should actually be implemented properly.

Time for the US to stop interfering. If they want to handover to the EU then make it realistic and not a disguised basis for independence.

I am interested to know what people think would happen if an agreement was not reached through the UN and then the US supported a unilateral declaration of independence.

The EU would be split even further and the troops on the ground, who are there under a Nato mandate, would have to leave. If civillian lives were risked so terribly during the bombing campaign to avoid loss of pilots by flying at 15,000 feet, and no land army was put in peril, does anyone think that they would be prepared to fight on the ground unless under the Nato/ UN umbrella? Especially on behalf of the KLA against the army of a sovereign UN state?

Plus 1244 would still exist without going through due procedure at the UN, which means that the UN would be obligated to carry out their mission until there was a proper agreement to end or change it.

Not so straight forward. I am interested in the mechanics of what would happen in this situation. Sounds extremely dangerous to me.

kate
"but only if it acknowledges Serbian sovereignty involved, working with Serbian police and troops to a logical extent".Serbian police logic??? Ask the serbs what they think of their own police!Oh i forgot your no serb neither from kosovo. might es well return to the pre-war days. Hope the serbian side can reincarnate the people they killed and tortured, give them back all their right they ever wanted, apologies and leave em alone forever.

Kate,
It always amazes me that a person like you - who according to your own acknowledgement is not Serb and has no Serbian connection whatsoever - has so much time and interest to defend the Serbian cause with so much zeal and obsession. If you are not Serb than most likely you are maried to a Serb or have a Serb boyfriend. That is OK with everybody. The real funny scenario is when you try to make believe that you have no Serbian connection at all and you spend hours on B92 out of love for justice for Serbia. It will be interesting to hear from you. Have a nice day!

Kate,
Finally they told the Russians, iether you go with the plan or you're out.
Lets stop deceiving ourselves, Kosovo is en route to be Independent, but that does not mean that is going in another planet.
Just the jurisdiction and the people managing it are changed.
Anybody who likes to visit Kosovo from North American Continent can hop on a direct flight from NYC to Pristina.

Whatever is going to be decided on the topic of kosova,will have nothing to do with russia. Russia is just making noise like a dog that BARK'S no bite .They are hoping to make either a finacal or territorial gain smewhere else. The odds seem to be in favor of the kosovars but i don't foresee it being as complete a victory as some might think

Kate,

you are absolutely spot on and I have to say that it is unfortunate and extremly sad that the US & a 'few' European states are now quite happy to pull back to events proir to 9th June 1999 - after all they said their intervention was "humanitarian". Such actions as they are following now show their disregard for the very resolution they formulated and signed on the 10th June 1999 and will ask the Russian question of which is it to be Sovereignity or self determination? This is not a good way forward but the US seem determined to stop the jaw-jaw and we all know what happens when jaw-jaw is stopped.

I think it is telling that the Russians have withdrawn from CFE treaty this morning and they are not bluffing nor is Serbia.

Kate,

I feel sorry for some people (like yourself) that cannot see the reality. Kosova is going to be Indipendent, weather you like it or not. The facts are that NATO is in Kosovo now, and is controlling the region, Not Russia or Serbia. I feel sorry for you guys sticking on a dead subject. It will be better if you concentrate and make remaining Serbia more democratic, mafia free, old komunist party free, and concentrate in joining the EU as soon as possible. You will have more benefits in this solution, than waisting time on something that has been resolved long time ago and it does not belong to Serbia anyway. EU will allow free movements to people anywhere they like.

At last Kosova issue looks like is moving ahead

With or without Russia consent Kosova is going to be independent country
No UN Resolution = Declare the independence
Independence at first recognised by US and some EU countries
At later stages by other countries Russia and Serbian politicians not the nationalist
In distant future join the EU. No need for UN seat anymore
No major disturbances except for the independence day party 
US,UK,FR and Ger. troops together with 8000 KPS police and 3000+ KPC provide security
People living normal everyday life just with a problem less
At early stages ties with Albania strengthened in order to get as much as possible financial support through them
Human Rights are already respected in a same level like in some of the EU countries
Other negative

Kate, 1244 is not being mentioned anywhere. You’re the only one that mentions 1244

Serbia to remove these politicians and apply reforms in every walk of life same as in Kosova
IDP from Kosova to return if they still own property if not, good luck to them

If this goes to vote then fine. The Russians have been only to open and honest about what they will do - the US can carry on with the deaf and blind routine but they really have little grounds for movement once the NYET is said.

The Russians are already making the position clear that even if the Ethnic-Albanians declare unilaterally there is very little that the US can do and it will be with less effect then the previous illegal unilateral declaration in the early 90's.

"" - First, that would run counter to UN Security Council Resolution 1244, which reaffirms the territorial integrity of Yugoslavia, and therefore its legal successor, Serbia," Dronov said.

" - Second, the EU mission will be out on a limb, because it received its mandate from the UN Security Council. And third, it will create a precedent." In that case, Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will demand the same treatment, news agency RIA Novosti reported

Since today's Kosovo is the result of a UN resolution which guarantees Serbia's territorial integrity, independence is not legally possible through a unilateral declaration of independence.

Transnistria, however, has no such restraint or limitation upon it since its current status is not based on any involvement by the United Nations and is also not created by a foreign-led NATO war.

It is natural that Kosovo's leaders now want to do the same since most of the current nations of the world in their current form came into existence by the will of its people through the application of the principles of self-determination or a declaration of independence, or both. But as a UN protectorate, established and run by the UN, Kosovo is unique because its status can not be changed without UN consent.

A democratic independence referendum - if agreed to with the United Nations, even if Serbia does not agree - would probably offer a way out."

- everything has to be agreed in the UN for the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija and seeing as the Russians have been only to open and honest I really can't expect the US and the 'few' European antions to act surprised and shocked in a big fat NO on Monady if they want a vote!

But the story won't end there when that happens we still face continued talks seeing as jaw-jaw is preferable to war-war! There will be no Independence and no Illegal declarations or recognition and no violenece because NATO will act.

Kate, what are you talking about? Which civilians, what pilots, why at 15.000 feet, why KLA, which land army and why fight, and whom, and what mechanics, why dangerous? What are you trying to say?

Serb contributers here (Kate, princip) seem to have pinned all their hopes on NATO to keep Kosovo in Serbia. Isn't that funny?

Kate and princip which part you you don’t understand of
"In an effort to get Russian support, the draft calls for 120 days of negotiations between Belgrade and Priština, but drops an automatic trigger of Ahtisaari’s plan that would lead to Kosovo's independence, as contained in earlier drafts. " …” Khalilzad said if Russia continued to object "this will not stop the situation from going forward, but it will be outside the Security Council framework, which is not what we want."


read read read and stop lying yourself and giving fake hopes to the serbian people who live in serbia.

Princip,

Independence or not, UN or not, at the end of the day you STILL wont be able to come and visit the "holy cradle of your civilisation" as a ruler or master.

Serbia has lost every war and political conflict since 1991 because of its greed for territory and power over others.

You can talk all you want about the UN and Russia all day long but at the end of the day its going to the the people of Kosova that will decide their own future.

Forgot to includ ethe link to the quotes I gave above from the head of the Russian mission in Kosovo Andrei Dronov
http://www.tiraspoltimes.com/node/1079

Laki,

have you not read, read, read that the Russians have rejected the 5th "cosmetic" redrafting because it was the same as the last four but in a poor attempt to cover up with "diplomatic" words.

I don't want the jaw-jaw to stop but it is clearly that if this is fprced into the UN SC that it will be rejected - no surprise there but I guess the US will act shocked - but then they do have the best movie industry in the world and acting is something they are very good at - even acting like a friend!!!

the best way that Serbia's Government must take is, to accept reality and new state of Kosovo, by the way Serbia and Kosovo will be together in Europe and serbs in Kosovo will not loose nothing. If Serbia chooses the old school of Miloseviq with contrarinnes to all the world and always looking in the past, then Serbia will loose more its territory untill it will be too late for compuntction. Serbian people must decide for his future, so JUST DO IT, recognize the Kosovo with Ahtisari's plan and don't let the serbs in Kosovo without anything. By the other way, Who knows what will happen if Kosovo takes fully Independence.

Jon, you will not have free movement through Serbia, for sure.

The Russians & Chinese will be double vetoing once more (as they did in January) in the UN. It is interesting that there are similarities to the message from Russia & China to the US then;
""I hope some of our partners also learned some lessons in the course of this entire process," Russia's UN ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, said. China's envoy Wang Guangya told reporters the United States acted like it was the only permanent council member."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-01/13/content_782772.htm
- it would seem that the US are acting deaf when it comes to the message that both China & Russia have made themselves more then clear on factors that are internal to a Sovereign state.

If this folly is presented as a resolution in the UN on Monday one should be only too aware how both will vote.
Lavrov on Russian - Chinese standpoint;
“Our relations are characterised by our total mutual understanding regarding the foreign policy agenda and respect the supremacy of the law and the UN’s central role. These are our positions on the issues of strategic stability in definite critical situations, including the nuclear problem of North Korea and Iran, Kosovo, Darfur and other international crises,”
http://www.neurope.eu/view_news.php?id=76061

The US need to realise that foolish unilateral actions have many consequences on the global level and given that the UK is already distancing itself from US foreign policy I doubt the UK is willing to create another challenge beyond Iraq & Afghanistan - unless they wish to create a distraction from the mess they are in but making a bigger mess really won't reslove the earlier mess. Kosovo & Metohija is and always will be integral to Serbia and as such Serbia's agreement on what it wishes to do with it's province is matter for it to resolve with it's citizens.

Tuesday will come again and there will be;
NO Independence,
NO Illegal declaration
NO Illegal recognition
NO Violence - NATO will act.

If the U.S. is going to bypass the UN security council, then the rule of law means nothing to the U.S. But of course, we all know that the rule of law has never mattered to the U.S. The U.S. only follows laws when it suits its own interests. Whenever there are laws that do not favor the U.S.'s position, the U.S. bypasses them; however, the U.S. always feels it is totally unacceptable for any other country to break international law. The U.S clearly operates with a double standard. Every country in the world has to follow the rules, except for the U.S.

Albanian commentators, please stop your pitying of Serbians, and your belief that we do not understand the news, and your conviction that Kosovo independence is a done deal. I always thought Albanians disliked Serbs, why feel sorry for us? Anyway, Kosovo is far from a done deal. You are being very condescending, and there is no need for that. Just state your own opinion and move on........The latest developments in Russia's arms agreement with NATO will prove quite interesting, and may very well come into play in Kosovo's status resolution. I have said this before, it is not 1999 anymore and the world's power players have changed. Good luck to all.

Well, well, this topic seems to be reserved today mostly to Kate and Princip. I was censured twice. That tells me that Monday's debate at the UN will be very important in the eyes of the Serbs.

"Kate, 1244 is not being mentioned anywhere. You’re the only one that mentions 1244

(Olf, Saturday, 14 July, 2007, 15:41) "

1244 is already enshrined in the UN. It doesn't make any difference whether it is mentioned once or a million times by anybody.

Ahtissari's proposals, on the other hand, has not been approved by the UNSC. So it makes a lot of difference how many times they mention his proposals and what they say about them ..... they still mention his proposals .... previously they mention about how Mosocow will abstain from voting .... but nowadays it is more about these proposals not being automatic anymore ..... as I see it, its only a matter of time before they abandon the proposals altogether ... and then stop talking about them completely. You see the difference?

"Khalilzad said Russia's UN ambassador Vitaly Churkin had not flatly rejected the draft, despite negative comments on Thursday from Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

He said Churkin had asked for clarification of some provisions of the text, but that the "core" of the resolution would not be changed, although some "wording at the margins" might be.

Khalilzad said if Russia continued to object "this will not stop the situation from going forward, but it will be outside the Security Council framework, which is not what we want."

Asked if Russia was threatening to veto the resolution, he quoted Churkin as saying, "I did not say rejection."

"We have to wait for the final word for clarity in regard to their position," Khalilzad said."

This Khalilzad was the same man who talked about "excitement for the next 10 days in the UN" over the Kosovo issue ..... how he can treat as exciting or exhilarating such a really serious issue is beyond me.

Anyway, his latest comments only show how desperate he really is, practically clutching at straws. I still remember US diplomats a few months back quoting Russian comments "do not support the resolution" as meaning they will abstain rather than vote against the resolution. The US seemed to require the Russians to state the word "oppose" in every statement made.

The US is now into their 5th draft resolution, hoping to win Moscow's (and Beijing's) approval. It should be clear to the US how self-deluding they have been all these months about semantics from Russian statements.

Jon, are you serious? You clearer don't understand that you are NOT independent now nor will you be, its obvious to any sensible person. It is over, all that is happening now is a lot of scrambling around from the USA to save face. But hey! don't take my word for it, wait and see. Monday Russia will say NO and America will come back with more rhetoric which will lead no where but it will excite you and many other Albanins thus the nonsense continues. America is waiting for the Albanians to become violent so that America can then back out of the mess they created for themselves, its the only way out for them now... but I congratulate the people of Kosovo for not falling into this trap. Obviously the Americans have underestimated the Albanians, the Serbians and the Russians, a triple blunder.

Look like everything is taking place just as it was supposed to be. Do NOT forget what Bush said; "one day we have to say, enough is enough Kosovo is independent"; and seemes to me that US is going to make it happen. US is tired of Russians. I know Americans, when they want to do something they'll do it no matter what; and look like thet have made decision to recognize Kosovo as a country even if new resolution does not get approved into UN/SC.

Would America have a military base into Serbian soil rather than friednly K-Albanian soil? Someone please answer me this question.
If US didn't plan to stay long time or maybe forever in Kosovo they would NOT build such a huge military camp ( i can easy call it military base).

Look like a final "divorce" is happening!

Princip,

You are right the Myanmar UN resolution vas Vetoed by both China and Russia in January 2007 . Also South African Republic voted "NO".
The countries that voted yes were US, UK, France, Belgium, and Italy as the biggest democracies in the world and the other countries were Ghana, Peru, Panama and Slovakia.
The "in favour" voting countries were urging Myanmar to release all political prisoners, move toward democracy and stop forced labour. So I can see their concern.
On the other hand I can also see the concern of China, Russia and South Africa- the countries were things like these still happen. No wonder they vetoed the resolution.
So it is clear that Russia and China are indeed forging a “partnership” with regards to their Foreign Policies or might we say” Not supporting anything that comes from the US”.
But what it is not clear is that no one knows what will be the outcome of the UN resolution about Kosova or indeed if the Unilateral independence is declared by either the parliament of Kosova or through a Referendum, what would the reactions from the International Community be. I as an Albanian both wish and hope that they will be positive for us.
You strike me as a quite knowledgeable person. However your comments about your certainty of the outcome of the Kosova issue in UN is somewhat degrading the truth of my previous sentence.
As one proverb goes “ Ignorance is bliss”, there is another that goes “Arrogance diminishes wisdom”.

Thanks

Eagle,

What are you going to say when Monday comes and passes and nothing happens except more foolish talk? Are you going to still say > "Look like everything is taking place just as it was supposed to be."
The Americans don't care about you, if they had they wouldn't be making promises they know they cannot deliver, so far Russia has delivered its promise to Serbia but America has failed the Albanians.

Good to see our 'Eagle' is still in la la land.

Ambassador Khalizad has to remember the saying articulated once upon a time by by the US President D.Eisenhower who observed that sometimes it is advisable to understand the other person's stance through his own eyes. In case of Kosovo, Your Excellency, you yavo to talk to people of Serbia first before writing a prescription what to do with this legitimate part of Serbia (at least see Res 1244).