Kouchner meets Serbian students

THE WHOLE WORLD WITH EXCEPTIONOF RUSSIA IS TELLING THE SERBS THIS WHITE , AND THEY KEEP ON INSISTING ITS BLACK.

To Mr.Kouchner: there much better solution of Kosovo issue: Belgrade plan for a substantial autonomy for Kosovo in the framework of Serbia - the plan that will not undermine the prestige of Paris,the EU and the UN at large.

Always makes me chuckle when politicians start using the term "international community". It means that they are incapable of offering a concrete argument on a given issue. The UN, which must uphold UNSCR 1244, Russia, China and many other nations and institutions do not belong to this "international community" that Kouchner speaks of (known as the NATO Pact to others).

"Well, our answer is ’yes’, and since the international comunity’s opinion carries a lot of clout, it could hardly be the case that we are not right on this,” he said."

Subtext: We are bigger therefore you must listen to us!

No Mr Kouchner, that bullying attitude doesn't always work. What about implementing 1244? What about the Albanian intransigence and refusal to negotiate (stoked by attitudes just like yours)?
It seems that you have a very limited take on things.

Wow I think this needs no comment!!!

"Serbs are smart, wise, they bear the burden of history. But they failed to provide a solution and immediately said ‘no’ [to Ahtisaari’s plan]. Well, our answer is ’yes’, and since the international comunity’s opinion carries a lot of clout, it could hardly be the case that we are not right on this"

and this from a very friendly Country to Serbia...

love and peace

"Well, our answer is ’yes’, and since the international comunity’s opinion carries a lot of clout, it could hardly be the case that we are not right on this,”

- but what is Kouchner's definition of "International community" - is it just the word of the US, UK, France & Germany? 4 Countries do not always get things right and by disregarding the multi-polar nature of the world we live in is a clear failure of the French Foreign Ministers understanding of geopolitics in 2007 - he still seems to be thinking like he did in the last century. If we applied his view that you can't join the EU until ethnic issues are fully resolved then I guess that is a strong message for Croatia who have not provided a welcome environment for the hundreds of thousands of Serbs from Krajina needless to say anything of Bosnnia & Hercegovina or FYRo Makedonian - anyone ethnic group could agitate beyond their real mandate against the current ruling Govt in any republic over EU admission - is this what Kouchner wants?

At least it is clear that the 'UK hints at foreign policy shift' - read the BBC article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6896797.stm
It states that a leading Minister in the new UK Govt of PM Brown suggests;

"In the 20th Century a country's might was too often measured in what they could destroy. In the 21st Century strength should be measured by what we can build together......Multilateralist, not unilateralist means a rules-based international system. Just as we need the rule of law at home to have civilisation so we need rules abroad to ensure global civilisation."

- Kouchner needs to keep pace with geopolitics!

Thus it is clear that there will be;
NO Independence
NO Illegal Declaration
NO Illegal Recognition
NO Violence - NATO will act.

So what is to be done? Surely the ethnic-Albanian leadership need to understand that it is in the best interest of all that the REAL talks that must and have to be held to find the solution that is agreeable to all must start. Without real and serious negotiations the Status Quo will continue. Also while these talks continue there must a be a refocus by the UN on ensuring what they were empowered with i.e. to ensure all returns and provide a environment where all the people can live together - "build together - based on rules of law". The fact that Kouchner was the 1st head of the UNMIK operations reflects on the thinking that has lead to the miserable failure of the successive UNMIK administrators - about time a new refocus on 1244 was ensured - maybe in doing so the solution will become evident!

What is certain is that if you do not even give it a chance how on earth do you know one does not exist? If that was the way we lived our lives then we would still be living like Neanderthals and the wheel would never have been invented! There does not need to be partition of a state if all learn that we are all the same and learn that one must respect each other if we are truly going to carry on living together - that is th message that has always been underlying Yugoslavia and ironically is supposed to be the message that the EU is based upon! The fact remains that there were only 6 republics and unless someone wishes to explain why integrity was upheld for Croatia, Bosnia & Hercegovina, FYRO Makedonia and recently Montenegro based on the "rule of law" and clarifyied by badinter then the starting point for any such talks should always have been about internal self governing. If on the other hand we are to respect self determination fully then lets bring back Krajina, a new agreement over BiH based on ethnic majority areas prior to the civil war, FYRo Makedonia split between east and west and yes Serbia lose the parts of Vojvodina and Kosovo & Metohija that were inhabited by majority areas based on 1991 census prior to the break up of Yugoslavia. One interesting article almost considers such -
"A tradeoff for peace in Kosovo"
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/07/13/a_tradeoff_for_peace_in_kosovo/

It is clear that not all European Memebers of Parliment think the same - European MP: I thank Russia for its being against shifting borders in Europe
http://www.regnum.ru/english/856412.html

So, what is it to be Soverign integrity or self determination? Which ever it is to be it must be equal to all and will not be just a Balkan rule since this is about "rule of law" for the whole globe as the UK minsiter points out.

Hmmmmm. Strange. I don't see any serb poster in here. Any reason? Perhaps because the same happens to all the news which have somehow a high dosage of truth, about how the rest of the world sees the situation in Kosovo. In such cases, the serb comments are totally missing. And I am not surprised. Who wants to comment unfavorable facts?

Interesting how serbs constantly refer to Macedonia as FYROM. And I see here macedonian posters still supporting serb agenda, even if Albania is the first country in Europe to recognize its constitutional name.
Wake up macedonians.

Ahmet Isufi - We are very stubborn and principled.

Princip,
Kouchner also told Veremic that Serbia could not join the EU if it did not let go of Kosova, - B92, however, does not think this is worth reporting. The delay in the declaration independence for Kosova is to give Serbia time to accept the position it is in, not to convince Moscow to withdraw its threat of veto. So, this is what it is going to happen:

YES to Independent Kosova
YES to freedom from oppression
YES to Kosova and Albania joining the EU.

You seem to write in an effort to convince yourself that things are not that bad rather than to impart any real information. Don't bother pontificating on what the international community should do about Kosova. You are in no position to lecture anyone. Patronising Albanian contributors also does not help because it belies your colonial mentality. Slobodan Milosevic tried using the same tactic when, just before the NATO intervention, he gave Robin Cooke, the then British Foreign Secretary, a Serbian history lesson on his country's rights over Kosova. Cooke replied that if Britain followed the same logic, he should also claim half of France. Guess who ended up in the Hague? Now, I wonder whether B92 moderators will publish this posting? Probably yes!

I am so annoyed by princip's slogans that I will start writing in his style till he stops:

NO MORE RAPE FACTORIES!
NO MORE CONCENTRATION CAMPS!
NO MORE ETHNIC CLEASING!
KOSOVO WILL BE INDEPENDENT!

Ciao!

Tirana saurus,

if your message was implied at my use of FYRo Makedonia please realise that on the contrary I was in fact balanced to both the Makedonians of FYRo Makedonia and the Greeks - it is a balance that I use not neither plain FYROM *which you used) or Macedonia but a compromised version. For your information the UN and many other international institutions and countries use the provisional reference the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), pending resolution of a naming dispute with Greece and this has not been resolved and is a matter between the 2 states so please don't stir from Tirana and comment on the topic at hand instead!

I have always wondered who the battered woman depicted on the web front-page was? I have my own personal take on this. I think that she is an impartial observer driven to self harm by the Serb propaganda.
I am glad that I do not have your nerve in my tooth my friends! I think that nothing will change on your side even when the independence will be declared. You will be still be saying:
NO Independence
NO Illegal Declaration
NO Illegal Recognition
NO Violence - NATO will act.
Guess where I will be on the day???

john 2 - no more rape factories (tell the kla and the general albanian population to stop people suggling then)
no more concentration camps (i assume you are apologising for the albanians role in wwii in places like jasenovac - apology accepted)
no more ethnic cleansing (refer to "no more rape factories" for the same answer)
kosovo will be independent (you forgot a few words. let me remind you - "kosovo will be an independent, autonomous part of serbia")

now that we have cleared up that confusion, enjoy the rest of your day.

village-bey - Using the image on B92 of a victim of domestic abuse to make a witless joke speaks volumes about your attitudes.

I am confirming here for those who could not or would not guess where I would be on the Independence Day. I will be in Prishtina being as happy as one can be. I am organising a trip to Kosova for all my work colleagues and I am paying for all of it. Great.

John2,

I am certain that your more annoyed with my comments I put forth and seeing as you are unable to counter them but prefer to state your annoyance at the reality that there is;
No Independence
No Illegal declaration
No Illegal recognition
No Violence - NATO will act
But would i not be better if you accepted those said facts and worked together in enusring the compromise solution that is being crafted in the UN of;
Ahtisaari 'Lite plus'
Zero% partition
100% Serbian State
+ EU guarantor.

or as Kate calls it "supervised" autonomy.

I think on the global scale of multilaterism the protection of sovereignity is more favorable to the 'uncontrolled' self determination. The Russians have a strong message there is nothing unique & which is it to be that should be applicable form this point on - sovereignity or self determination?

village-bey - I am delighted to hear that and hope that you've already bought all of the tickets in advance!

village-bey,

hardly very generous offering something that you are only too aware that you will never need to fulfill. Ah, but, I heard something similar before & sounds very similar to earlier promises that an American chap now what was his name Young&Broke no - ah yes Old&brooke was his name when he promised something that he knew he was never his to promise - I wonder if this is linked???

Real Canadian, Friday, 13 July, 2007, 11:07

This is the first time I hear somebody calling himself 'real' Canadian! What does it mean? Are there Canadians who are not 'real'??

Kouchner is wrong when he said Serbs failed to provide a solution. Canada’s foreign affairs minister Barbara McDougal said in a news conference that it was wrong recognizing the independence of the former Yugoslav republics. How many people would have lived if Helmet Coal wasn’t Germany’s chancellor? In a democracy majority rules. The solution for the Province of Kosovo is to obey Serbia’s laws and not have Albania invading it like Iraq did Kuwait. If Sarkozy didn’t choose Kouchner, the international media would have less access to the first head of UNMIK.

Suntan Lotion

Not for nothing if I can get my two cents in, but saying

“Serbs are smart, wise, they bear the burden of history. But they failed to provide a solution and immediately said ‘no’ [to Ahtisaari’s plan]. Well, our answer is ’yes’, and since the international comunity’s opinion carries a lot of clout, it could hardly be that we are not right on this,” Kouchner essentially reaffrims the much feared (and much hated) Might makes Right rationale.

Think what would have happened if George W. Bush said exactly these words to a number of French students just prior to the invasion of Iraq. This would have been all over the front pages of Le Monde, Figaro, and others as a blatant display of US imperialism. But it's said to a group of Serbs who are supposed to shut up and take their medicine.

Hence, my continued stance with Russia in this matter.

On a brighter note everyone, be sure to have an extra drink this weekend, as my birthday is this Saturday!

Hem, Sovereignty or self determination. That's is the question! Let me turn this round for you. Serbia still legally has something that doesn't belong to it. Serbia has four months to give it back, or it will be taken away anyway. It's your move now. Anyone for negotiations?

Happy 50th MIke

Mospyt
Albans are trying to steal a part of Serbia that never belonged to them. The world realises the consequences of such actions if done unilaterally and has tried to do it through UNSC. That has failed because Russia has blocked it. That was the only hope albans had for independence. Now its all about discussing autonomy.
Lets talk.

I find it ironic that the Serbs here complain about the whole "might makes right" attitude.
After all wasn't that the Serb policy throughout its recent history in dealing with its neighbors? Now that the shoe seems to be in the other foot, you get all principled and pontificating. That smells like hypocrisy to me.

Just remember that Kosovo WAS an autonomous province of Serbia once before.
And of course, we all witnessed just how much protection that proved to be against Serb nationalist zealots, like Slobo and Seselj(whose goons by the way, still dominate the current Serbian parliament).
Considering this reality, I don't see how the Kosovar Albanians would benefit at all from being under the Serb yoke once again. If the Serbs here have any enlightening insights on this, beyond the run-of-the-mill of Serb history and alleged victim hood, I'd be really curious to know.

Well no, it doesnt have time to give it back purely because it has no obligation to?! or are you suggesting we should reward continous Albanian efforts since WW2 to remove all non-Serbs and destroy the glorious history that befalls Kosovo.
Milosovic was a fool for commiting war crimes, all he should have done was removed all illeagal Albanian immigrants and increased security for Serbs. Destroying the KLA was given, especially considering he defeated them in a matter of weeks.

Kouchner presided over the continuous kidnapping and murder of Serbs and the theft of their property and farms.

Kouchner is a friend of war criminals and should be jailed for what happened to Serb civilians under his watch in Kosovo.

I think we need to take these comments in context of Kouchner’s other comments.

“if there were other options, Serbia was the one to seek them out.”

I think his message is actually that Serbia needs to step up and offer their counter proposal and be frank about it.

“"Don't expect France to propose such reshaping," he told a Belgrade newspaper. "At the very least, Belgrade and Pristina would have to agree on it. And in that case I don't see how France could oppose it," Kouchner said.”

Everything he said makes sense in this context.

To Victor who wrote:
"Real Canadian, Friday, 13 July, 2007, 11:07

This is the first time I hear somebody calling himself 'real' Canadian! What does it mean? Are there Canadians who are not 'real'??
(Victor, Friday, 13 July, 2007, 16:43) "

I only use the "Real Canadian" pseudo to differ from the pro-Serb "Canadian" person that writes on this forum...I am really sorry if this term confuses you...I think my point would be more appropriate to respond to then my pseudo even if I used a 100% Canadian one…

Love and Peace

Vuk I am glad that you admitted that Millosheviq comitted war crimes, but I disagree that he destroyed KLA with few weeks. KLA was never destroyed , on contrary KLA was getting stronger every day.

John I hope you are correct and the KLA stops all those crimes you mentioned. NATO placed war criminals to rrepresent Kosovo, what else needs to be said?

Get real Mufti, KLA ran like a bunch of freigthened school girls. If it wasn't for NATO bombs, they may still be running.

If Kouchner’s somewhat responsible for presiding over the continuous kidnapping and murder of Serbs and whatever else it is that you claim. Then arrest him. He’s not the elusive Radovan Karadzic or Ratko Mladic. He’s right there in the heart of Belgrade.

Did Kouchner apologize to these Serbian students for the NATO's illegal bombing of the fromer Yugoslavia? The entire world community was not in favor of that despicable military action then, as it is not entirely in favor of granting independence to Kosovo's Albanians. It never ceases to amaze me that these EU/NATO politicos think their world view is the only and correct one. But if they took oppossing opinions into consideration, their agendas would not be fulfilled. BTW, did anyone see the photo of Kuchner kissing that old Albanian dude? What's up with that? Did he kiss Kostunica too when he was in Belgrade? Or did Vojislav push him away.

To Mr.Kouchner: there much better solution of Kosovo issue: Belgrade plan for a substantial autonomy for Kosovo in the framework of Serbia - the plan that will not undermine the prestige of Paris,the EU and the UN at large.

Always makes me chuckle when politicians start using the term "international community". It means that they are incapable of offering a concrete argument on a given issue. The UN, which must uphold UNSCR 1244, Russia, China and many other nations and institutions do not belong to this "international community" that Kouchner speaks of (known as the NATO Pact to others).

"Well, our answer is ’yes’, and since the international comunity’s opinion carries a lot of clout, it could hardly be the case that we are not right on this,” he said."

Subtext: We are bigger therefore you must listen to us!

No Mr Kouchner, that bullying attitude doesn't always work. What about implementing 1244? What about the Albanian intransigence and refusal to negotiate (stoked by attitudes just like yours)?
It seems that you have a very limited take on things.

THE WHOLE WORLD WITH EXCEPTIONOF RUSSIA IS TELLING THE SERBS THIS WHITE , AND THEY KEEP ON INSISTING ITS BLACK.

Wow I think this needs no comment!!!

"Serbs are smart, wise, they bear the burden of history. But they failed to provide a solution and immediately said ‘no’ [to Ahtisaari’s plan]. Well, our answer is ’yes’, and since the international comunity’s opinion carries a lot of clout, it could hardly be the case that we are not right on this"

and this from a very friendly Country to Serbia...

love and peace

"Well, our answer is ’yes’, and since the international comunity’s opinion carries a lot of clout, it could hardly be the case that we are not right on this,”

- but what is Kouchner's definition of "International community" - is it just the word of the US, UK, France & Germany? 4 Countries do not always get things right and by disregarding the multi-polar nature of the world we live in is a clear failure of the French Foreign Ministers understanding of geopolitics in 2007 - he still seems to be thinking like he did in the last century. If we applied his view that you can't join the EU until ethnic issues are fully resolved then I guess that is a strong message for Croatia who have not provided a welcome environment for the hundreds of thousands of Serbs from Krajina needless to say anything of Bosnnia & Hercegovina or FYRo Makedonian - anyone ethnic group could agitate beyond their real mandate against the current ruling Govt in any republic over EU admission - is this what Kouchner wants?

At least it is clear that the 'UK hints at foreign policy shift' - read the BBC article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6896797.stm
It states that a leading Minister in the new UK Govt of PM Brown suggests;

"In the 20th Century a country's might was too often measured in what they could destroy. In the 21st Century strength should be measured by what we can build together......Multilateralist, not unilateralist means a rules-based international system. Just as we need the rule of law at home to have civilisation so we need rules abroad to ensure global civilisation."

- Kouchner needs to keep pace with geopolitics!

Thus it is clear that there will be;
NO Independence
NO Illegal Declaration
NO Illegal Recognition
NO Violence - NATO will act.

So what is to be done? Surely the ethnic-Albanian leadership need to understand that it is in the best interest of all that the REAL talks that must and have to be held to find the solution that is agreeable to all must start. Without real and serious negotiations the Status Quo will continue. Also while these talks continue there must a be a refocus by the UN on ensuring what they were empowered with i.e. to ensure all returns and provide a environment where all the people can live together - "build together - based on rules of law". The fact that Kouchner was the 1st head of the UNMIK operations reflects on the thinking that has lead to the miserable failure of the successive UNMIK administrators - about time a new refocus on 1244 was ensured - maybe in doing so the solution will become evident!

What is certain is that if you do not even give it a chance how on earth do you know one does not exist? If that was the way we lived our lives then we would still be living like Neanderthals and the wheel would never have been invented! There does not need to be partition of a state if all learn that we are all the same and learn that one must respect each other if we are truly going to carry on living together - that is th message that has always been underlying Yugoslavia and ironically is supposed to be the message that the EU is based upon! The fact remains that there were only 6 republics and unless someone wishes to explain why integrity was upheld for Croatia, Bosnia & Hercegovina, FYRO Makedonia and recently Montenegro based on the "rule of law" and clarifyied by badinter then the starting point for any such talks should always have been about internal self governing. If on the other hand we are to respect self determination fully then lets bring back Krajina, a new agreement over BiH based on ethnic majority areas prior to the civil war, FYRo Makedonia split between east and west and yes Serbia lose the parts of Vojvodina and Kosovo & Metohija that were inhabited by majority areas based on 1991 census prior to the break up of Yugoslavia. One interesting article almost considers such -
"A tradeoff for peace in Kosovo"
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/07/13/a_tradeoff_for_peace_in_kosovo/

It is clear that not all European Memebers of Parliment think the same - European MP: I thank Russia for its being against shifting borders in Europe
http://www.regnum.ru/english/856412.html

So, what is it to be Soverign integrity or self determination? Which ever it is to be it must be equal to all and will not be just a Balkan rule since this is about "rule of law" for the whole globe as the UK minsiter points out.

Hmmmmm. Strange. I don't see any serb poster in here. Any reason? Perhaps because the same happens to all the news which have somehow a high dosage of truth, about how the rest of the world sees the situation in Kosovo. In such cases, the serb comments are totally missing. And I am not surprised. Who wants to comment unfavorable facts?

Interesting how serbs constantly refer to Macedonia as FYROM. And I see here macedonian posters still supporting serb agenda, even if Albania is the first country in Europe to recognize its constitutional name.
Wake up macedonians.

Ahmet Isufi - We are very stubborn and principled.

Princip,
Kouchner also told Veremic that Serbia could not join the EU if it did not let go of Kosova, - B92, however, does not think this is worth reporting. The delay in the declaration independence for Kosova is to give Serbia time to accept the position it is in, not to convince Moscow to withdraw its threat of veto. So, this is what it is going to happen:

YES to Independent Kosova
YES to freedom from oppression
YES to Kosova and Albania joining the EU.

You seem to write in an effort to convince yourself that things are not that bad rather than to impart any real information. Don't bother pontificating on what the international community should do about Kosova. You are in no position to lecture anyone. Patronising Albanian contributors also does not help because it belies your colonial mentality. Slobodan Milosevic tried using the same tactic when, just before the NATO intervention, he gave Robin Cooke, the then British Foreign Secretary, a Serbian history lesson on his country's rights over Kosova. Cooke replied that if Britain followed the same logic, he should also claim half of France. Guess who ended up in the Hague? Now, I wonder whether B92 moderators will publish this posting? Probably yes!

I am so annoyed by princip's slogans that I will start writing in his style till he stops:

NO MORE RAPE FACTORIES!
NO MORE CONCENTRATION CAMPS!
NO MORE ETHNIC CLEASING!
KOSOVO WILL BE INDEPENDENT!

Ciao!

Tirana saurus,

if your message was implied at my use of FYRo Makedonia please realise that on the contrary I was in fact balanced to both the Makedonians of FYRo Makedonia and the Greeks - it is a balance that I use not neither plain FYROM *which you used) or Macedonia but a compromised version. For your information the UN and many other international institutions and countries use the provisional reference the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), pending resolution of a naming dispute with Greece and this has not been resolved and is a matter between the 2 states so please don't stir from Tirana and comment on the topic at hand instead!

I have always wondered who the battered woman depicted on the web front-page was? I have my own personal take on this. I think that she is an impartial observer driven to self harm by the Serb propaganda.
I am glad that I do not have your nerve in my tooth my friends! I think that nothing will change on your side even when the independence will be declared. You will be still be saying:
NO Independence
NO Illegal Declaration
NO Illegal Recognition
NO Violence - NATO will act.
Guess where I will be on the day???

john 2 - no more rape factories (tell the kla and the general albanian population to stop people suggling then)
no more concentration camps (i assume you are apologising for the albanians role in wwii in places like jasenovac - apology accepted)
no more ethnic cleansing (refer to "no more rape factories" for the same answer)
kosovo will be independent (you forgot a few words. let me remind you - "kosovo will be an independent, autonomous part of serbia")

now that we have cleared up that confusion, enjoy the rest of your day.

village-bey - Using the image on B92 of a victim of domestic abuse to make a witless joke speaks volumes about your attitudes.

I am confirming here for those who could not or would not guess where I would be on the Independence Day. I will be in Prishtina being as happy as one can be. I am organising a trip to Kosova for all my work colleagues and I am paying for all of it. Great.

John2,

I am certain that your more annoyed with my comments I put forth and seeing as you are unable to counter them but prefer to state your annoyance at the reality that there is;
No Independence
No Illegal declaration
No Illegal recognition
No Violence - NATO will act
But would i not be better if you accepted those said facts and worked together in enusring the compromise solution that is being crafted in the UN of;
Ahtisaari 'Lite plus'
Zero% partition
100% Serbian State
+ EU guarantor.

or as Kate calls it "supervised" autonomy.

I think on the global scale of multilaterism the protection of sovereignity is more favorable to the 'uncontrolled' self determination. The Russians have a strong message there is nothing unique & which is it to be that should be applicable form this point on - sovereignity or self determination?

village-bey - I am delighted to hear that and hope that you've already bought all of the tickets in advance!

village-bey,

hardly very generous offering something that you are only too aware that you will never need to fulfill. Ah, but, I heard something similar before & sounds very similar to earlier promises that an American chap now what was his name Young&Broke no - ah yes Old&brooke was his name when he promised something that he knew he was never his to promise - I wonder if this is linked???

Real Canadian, Friday, 13 July, 2007, 11:07

This is the first time I hear somebody calling himself 'real' Canadian! What does it mean? Are there Canadians who are not 'real'??

Kouchner is wrong when he said Serbs failed to provide a solution. Canada’s foreign affairs minister Barbara McDougal said in a news conference that it was wrong recognizing the independence of the former Yugoslav republics. How many people would have lived if Helmet Coal wasn’t Germany’s chancellor? In a democracy majority rules. The solution for the Province of Kosovo is to obey Serbia’s laws and not have Albania invading it like Iraq did Kuwait. If Sarkozy didn’t choose Kouchner, the international media would have less access to the first head of UNMIK.

Suntan Lotion

Not for nothing if I can get my two cents in, but saying

“Serbs are smart, wise, they bear the burden of history. But they failed to provide a solution and immediately said ‘no’ [to Ahtisaari’s plan]. Well, our answer is ’yes’, and since the international comunity’s opinion carries a lot of clout, it could hardly be that we are not right on this,” Kouchner essentially reaffrims the much feared (and much hated) Might makes Right rationale.

Think what would have happened if George W. Bush said exactly these words to a number of French students just prior to the invasion of Iraq. This would have been all over the front pages of Le Monde, Figaro, and others as a blatant display of US imperialism. But it's said to a group of Serbs who are supposed to shut up and take their medicine.

Hence, my continued stance with Russia in this matter.

On a brighter note everyone, be sure to have an extra drink this weekend, as my birthday is this Saturday!

Hem, Sovereignty or self determination. That's is the question! Let me turn this round for you. Serbia still legally has something that doesn't belong to it. Serbia has four months to give it back, or it will be taken away anyway. It's your move now. Anyone for negotiations?

Happy 50th MIke

Mospyt
Albans are trying to steal a part of Serbia that never belonged to them. The world realises the consequences of such actions if done unilaterally and has tried to do it through UNSC. That has failed because Russia has blocked it. That was the only hope albans had for independence. Now its all about discussing autonomy.
Lets talk.

I find it ironic that the Serbs here complain about the whole "might makes right" attitude.
After all wasn't that the Serb policy throughout its recent history in dealing with its neighbors? Now that the shoe seems to be in the other foot, you get all principled and pontificating. That smells like hypocrisy to me.

Just remember that Kosovo WAS an autonomous province of Serbia once before.
And of course, we all witnessed just how much protection that proved to be against Serb nationalist zealots, like Slobo and Seselj(whose goons by the way, still dominate the current Serbian parliament).
Considering this reality, I don't see how the Kosovar Albanians would benefit at all from being under the Serb yoke once again. If the Serbs here have any enlightening insights on this, beyond the run-of-the-mill of Serb history and alleged victim hood, I'd be really curious to know.

Well no, it doesnt have time to give it back purely because it has no obligation to?! or are you suggesting we should reward continous Albanian efforts since WW2 to remove all non-Serbs and destroy the glorious history that befalls Kosovo.
Milosovic was a fool for commiting war crimes, all he should have done was removed all illeagal Albanian immigrants and increased security for Serbs. Destroying the KLA was given, especially considering he defeated them in a matter of weeks.

Kouchner presided over the continuous kidnapping and murder of Serbs and the theft of their property and farms.

Kouchner is a friend of war criminals and should be jailed for what happened to Serb civilians under his watch in Kosovo.

I think we need to take these comments in context of Kouchner’s other comments.

“if there were other options, Serbia was the one to seek them out.”

I think his message is actually that Serbia needs to step up and offer their counter proposal and be frank about it.

“"Don't expect France to propose such reshaping," he told a Belgrade newspaper. "At the very least, Belgrade and Pristina would have to agree on it. And in that case I don't see how France could oppose it," Kouchner said.”

Everything he said makes sense in this context.

To Victor who wrote:
"Real Canadian, Friday, 13 July, 2007, 11:07

This is the first time I hear somebody calling himself 'real' Canadian! What does it mean? Are there Canadians who are not 'real'??
(Victor, Friday, 13 July, 2007, 16:43) "

I only use the "Real Canadian" pseudo to differ from the pro-Serb "Canadian" person that writes on this forum...I am really sorry if this term confuses you...I think my point would be more appropriate to respond to then my pseudo even if I used a 100% Canadian one…

Love and Peace

Vuk I am glad that you admitted that Millosheviq comitted war crimes, but I disagree that he destroyed KLA with few weeks. KLA was never destroyed , on contrary KLA was getting stronger every day.

John I hope you are correct and the KLA stops all those crimes you mentioned. NATO placed war criminals to rrepresent Kosovo, what else needs to be said?

Get real Mufti, KLA ran like a bunch of freigthened school girls. If it wasn't for NATO bombs, they may still be running.

If Kouchner’s somewhat responsible for presiding over the continuous kidnapping and murder of Serbs and whatever else it is that you claim. Then arrest him. He’s not the elusive Radovan Karadzic or Ratko Mladic. He’s right there in the heart of Belgrade.

Did Kouchner apologize to these Serbian students for the NATO's illegal bombing of the fromer Yugoslavia? The entire world community was not in favor of that despicable military action then, as it is not entirely in favor of granting independence to Kosovo's Albanians. It never ceases to amaze me that these EU/NATO politicos think their world view is the only and correct one. But if they took oppossing opinions into consideration, their agendas would not be fulfilled. BTW, did anyone see the photo of Kuchner kissing that old Albanian dude? What's up with that? Did he kiss Kostunica too when he was in Belgrade? Or did Vojislav push him away.