"Russian, French Kosovo stances close"

Kouchner message sound like Fried message couple days ago but a little softer.
Ahtisaris plan has offered KosovA Serbs more than Serbia is offering Serb IDP’s.
At least in KosovA Serbs are called Serbs unlike in Serbia where they have no status, they are hated, called names and not wanted.
Posters here and Russia that are against the Ahtisari plan are not doing any favour to K-Serbs. One of the Serbs talking to me yesterday said:
”For Belgrade politicians 10000 Serbs remained in KosovA are not to many to gamble with. They know to gamble with 100ths i.e. Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova”
In KosovA are many more Serbs that think this way, in Serbia too. See the B92 in Serbian.

For you(minority) that do not leave in KosovA;
You have chosen to live your life away from Serbia. Your comment are not so helpful. All you are doing is telling us that your English is excellent and nothing else. We in KosovA don’t find this amusing.

Kouchner should explain why he failed as the first head of UNMIK as have subsequent administrators to ensure peace and security for all non-Albaninas in the Serbian province under 1244. As such what guarantees does another piece of paper providing so called guarantees of rights for all when it is already in place under 1244 and are not acted upon - why should any non-Albanian believe what Kouchner or Ahtisaari now suggest when the last 8 years have exemplified lack of human rights and actions to put things right and the standards they themselves set have been thrown out of the window - what can he say to prove anything would be different and if they were to be different that leads onto what and why couldn't it be acted upon now under 1244? Staus looks like the continuation of Serbia's sovereignity and will continue so there is no need for Ahtisaari in it's full to be implemented.

I think the Russians will look into the proposal by the UK & France and will find the glaring holes. The Russians will not be so quick to allow this 5th draft without more guarantees and the obligation to reaffirm Serbia's continued sovereign integrity. The Russians have always made it quite clear that any final resolution needs to guarantee the continuation of Sovereignity or else it is not something that is unique and must be applicable to everyone else - which is it to be Soverignity or self determination - can't have it both ways!

It is looking more and more certain that the final draft that will be passed is the "supervised autonomy" by the EU of Serbia's province or as I like to call it Ahtisaari 'Lite - plus'
- 0% Partition
-100% Serbian State
- Plus EU guarantor!

The EU will take the MIK out of the UNMIK and adminster the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija initially from Pristiina but then as trust and reconciliation builds it will move offices to Belgrade. If this is what passes in the Un and it certainly looks like it is moving in that direction already then I think we have an agreement that will be acceptable to all.

Olf, I carefully read your response three times. But I really can't make anything sensible out of it.

Seriously: why does the B92-editor allow this kind of reaction where it is absolutely impossible to understand anything at all. Knowledge of at least some basic english should be a requirement for allowing reactions on the ENGLISH-language part of this site.

Olf - glad to hear that you're communicating with your Serbian neighbours in Kosovo and asking them how they feel about the current situation and if they feel that Belgrade has let them down in any way. I am sure that they feel able to 'open up' to you.

Do you meet and chat in cafes together or do you just pop in to each others houses? I don't think so Olf.

"Ahtisaris plan has offered KosovA Serbs more than Serbia is offering Serb IDP’s."

According to Mr Ahtisaari this is the case, but he is neither qualified nor impartial. PLUS this is not an equal comparison. The responsibility for safe, planned, staged and militarily protected refugee returns lies with the UN under Resolution 1244.

They should get on and do the job that they are paid millions to do.

Some of the Serbians in KOSOVO, dont care about Kosovo, Albanians are starting to buy houses from them for very high inflated prices so there can be less and less Serbians in the Area. People have gotten houses worth really 30000 euro's they have received 450000 Euro's.

MLKG
ask someone that speaks English to explain them to you in Serbian.
Kate had no problem with it. Maybe because she is English?!

Kate
Serbs are don want to return to Kosova. Most of them have no property since they have sold them, some are afraid because Serbian politicians make the environment in Kosovo look unsafe and some have returned. Some have not left at all.
Yes, I meet everyday with my Serb colleagues/friends for a coffee. They feel free to talk since Kosova is not like some of the posters in here state. Reconciliation process have started and is in progress, of course that there are going to be setbacks but we should not focus on those. There is a lot to be done. New Kosova is moving ahead slowly.
Economy is slowly recovering amidst a lot of corruption but it is on the way up.
Many positive things happening in Kosova> shame for the progress to be halted because of some crazy politicians in Serbia.

"You are going to join the EU," French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner told Serb reporters in Belgrade.

"But when I say that, don't think that it is going to be before Kosovo is resolved peacefully," he said after meeting his Serbian counterpart, Vuk Jeremic.

"It is not possible to enter the EU with ethnic conflict," added Kouchner ...

Another high official making this clear to the Serb government. I guess, Albanians leaders in Kosovo can adopt the same tactic that Serbia has been using for some time now. How much worst can it get for them?. So, they can obstruct and never agree on anything so the conflict stays open and Serbia never gains EU membership. Things have a strange way of turning around to bite you. It is not good to be on the receiving end but then again some have never been on the receiving end long enough to learn something. And yet some have a steeper learning curve too ...

As I just read on the French Figaro site Kouchner made clair to the Serbs that there will be no EU entry until the status of Kosovo is resolved.
This must be a cold shower to the Serbs, who naively believe that with Russian procrastination they can keep the Kosovo issue unresolved for ever.

As expected, the road to independence has been bumpy. It will continue to be so. But at the end of it all, the outcome - independence - will be inevitable. No one can guarantee what the precise settlement formula will be -- I think it looks a lot likely that there will be some sort of Serbian entity-like proposals incorporated into the Ahtisari plan. That's what Russia will come to recognize in the next coming months, and, actually, that's what Belgrade's strategy has been all along: to win a Serbian entity within Kosovo. It's a bitter pill to swallow for everyone, but its a solution. Important thing is that northern Kosovo will formally remain a part of an independent Kosovo.

The north of Kosovo will risk being left out of the EU - much like the northern Cyrpus - unless it recognises the authority of Prishtina.

So the message is that over the medium term, Kosovo wins.

We need to continue to be patient. How sad to see some people who still think 'the EU administration will somehow move one day to Belgrade.'

Dream on...

It looks like the West are already looking at an alternative - partition.
Major powers nudge Serbs and Kosovo towards partition
http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1210293820070712
Looks like the West want partition more then some commentators such as Matthew, PB & Louie who have said all along they were open to such solutions. This would not be good as it would alienate all the peoples in the region and Serbia did recently say it was not interested - "Partition of Kosovo unacceptable”
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=07&dd=05&nav_category=90&nav_id=42232

As far as I am concerned partition is partition be it 15%, 5% or 1% Serbia can stick to it's principles and I am sure Russia will agree while it retains an interest such as sovereignity or self determination - which is it to be?

If Kouchner has truly said that Serbia must dismember itself if it wants to be part of the EU then he has clearly lost touch with the debate since it was only a few months ago that the EU were reiterating that EU acession and Kosovo are two seperate notions. If this was said then I am certain that Tadic will be immediatly requesting clarification from Brussels and all member states on the question - if they believe it is right that a new prerequisite to accession is the loss of 15% of a state?

Vive La France! Viva Portugal! God Save The Queen!Viva Italia!
And the list will grow.
Now for the Serbian side, RUSSIA,
Now for the posters in here, do you really think the rest of Europe hates 6 millions Serbs? Its for the best the independence. If you want to visit churches, come, if Kosovars want to use hospitals they will go to Belgrade. Economy will grow, and this way they will forget about the old generations blood spills. Build a new future.

Olf, you did touch upon an interesting subject and that is the status of the Kosovo Serbs in Serbia Proper. You're right, they are NOT well received by the general population. They're seen as little more than country bumpkins - sort of like placing a rural Mississippi dweller in the middle of New York City. The same goes for displaced Krajina Serbs in Vojvodina. And yes, many Belgrade politicians use these and other Serb refugees as political tools for their own end, but little else.

I remember a few months ago Oliver Ivanovic, in apparent frustration with Belgrade, said "tell us what to do. Should we stay [in Kosovo], or should be go?" With this, the Ahtisaari Plan DOES offer more tangible protections for the Serbs than what I hear coming from Belgrade. While I have made my clear reservations about Kosovo's independence, and while I believe there are tremendous obstacles still to overcome, the only thing I hear from Belgrade on a daily basis is rhetoric. How about a counter proposal to Ahtisaari? You can't just say "substantial autonomy" without defining its parameters.

I think the Ahtisaari Plan should be the foundations of the Kosovo Solution, but before we decide on a date for independence, let's figure out a) HOW independence can LEGALLY be achieved, and b) what exactly an independent Kosovo would look like (I still think bi-zonal confederation is the best).

Serbia will join the EU just as Cyprus has joined the EU and now the euro zone.Is it not ironic that Greeks and Turks are being encouraged to reconcile after 30 years of stalemate?When does Kouchner plan on France recognizing the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus?The legalist Europeans understand there is no legal way to revoke Serbia's deed to Kosovo given in 1912 BEFORE Yugoslavia even existed and that the Communist drawn pseudo borders were completely detrimental to Serbia.There is no need for Serbs to engage in any armed conflict over Kosovo but if the KLA attacks the right of self defense must be employed by anybody being attacked and for this reason the highly professional Seb Army should maintain excellent cooperation with all neighboring countries and NATO.It appears that Serbs will have allies this time around who will not be fooled again by who the provocateurs really are.A new UN Resolution will be passed giving the EU responsibility for Kosovo for the next 30 years but there will be NO mention of independence or Ahtissari's dead horse.If it has taken 30 years for Greeks and Turks to even talk in Cyprus then maybe it will take 30 years for Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo to talk intelligently with each other.However,for the time being all Serbs in Kosovo must move to protected zones in order not to be massacred by the Islamists once independence disappears from everybody's vocabulary.

The headline reads "Russian, French Kosovo stances close". This is GOOD NEWS for Serbia/Serbs. Maybe France is coming to its senses, seeing that they have their own problems with Radical, disenfranchised Muslims who have been rioting and will most likely use Kosovo independence as a spring board to their own agenda. A European wide backlash to the Islamic push is now in the process of gaining momentum, no matter how much Pro independence Albanians try to turn lemons into lemonade this will turn very sour for them soon.

Adriana,
Being allowed access to Belgrade hospitals is precisely what the Albanians won't get if a greater Albanian state is formed on Serbian land. These people are in for a rough couple of years. Who sold them this pipe dream?

Adriano,

You are right. If the Serbs want to visite those churches they can take hundreds of buses to go to Kosovo. I went to Medjugorje in Herzegovia in car. I saw hundreds of buses with pilgrims there. The Serbs could do the same in Kosovo. I doubt however very much they will do it since it is well known that they are not at all religious.

Adriano- correction 8.5 million Serbs in Serbia and RS and another 8.5 million like me living abroad (ancestors)

The CIA factbook lists 12 million Serbs and 140 million Russians along with 6 million Albanians worldwide.A million Americans are of Serb heritage and have contributed immensely to this country(governors,senators,athletes,businessmen,inventors)so any intelligent person who talks on behalf of the USA should learn these facts.What happened in the 1990's is ancient history and all groups in the Balkans have their angels and demons but as an American who is neither a Serb nor Albanian it is starting to annoy me how people who do not even write good English want to talk on behalf of America.The only candidate who is going to get elected to the White House next year is the one who promises to bring our boys home the QUICKEST.Notice how McCain who is supposed to be the frontrunner among the Republicans and supports continued US military involvement in Iraq is close to last with the public.Americans such as myself love our country but hate the fact our YOUNG boys have to die for the nonsensical policies of warmongers living in mansions and flying around in private jets seeking to promote conflicts in order to justify their own existence.Shalom

No partition, no independence. Under those circumstances we would rather not be a part of EU. We can live beside each other. But if EU wants us to give up KOSOVO for membership. Then I as a Serb fully reject that offer.

PS yes Serbs go to schools and learn 2, 3 or more languages. They can voice their opinion in any of those they wish.

KOSOVO WILL NEVER BE INDEPENDENT
CCCC

Adriano, independence and economic prosperity have nothing in common. American economy is in the nosedive, while Hong Kong economy is healthy. Hong Kong economy was healthy even when it was a colony. Yugoslav Federation and Serbia have poured billions of dollars into Kosovo economy before 1999, and so has EU after 1999 and what is the outcome - Kosovo is money pit. Not exactly promissing.

There is not a single country in the world that wants to be economically unsuccessful, yet many are.
Economy is both an art and science, and can not be propelled with declarations and with wishful thinking.
Economically speaking, Kosovo as an independent country is a failed state, stillborn. Selling drugs, weapons and running human traficking networks is lucrative but can not form a backbone of economy.

Before 1999 Kosovo was net exporter of electrical power. Read about Czechs selling electric power to Kosovo to get the full measure of Kosovo Albanian mismanagement of Kosovo economy - Kosovo can not produce enough electricity for local consumption, let alone for export. The cost is borne by local population who pay raked up prices.

luciano, what happened in 1990's is NOT ancient history. It was just a few years ago, and it happened before. There are still people very much alive who lost their family in that war and who have not found their families and you have no right to say that. Those people are still here. They are in the history books too, but they are here. Take back that comment and never again deny their suffering. Would you dare to tell those people in the face that in is ancient history? We must NEVER forget what happened and NEVER say that it was something in the past. We must leave with it, otherwise we are not better than those who did it.

Cvele wrote "KOSOVO WILL NEVER BE INDEPENDENT".
Yes Cvele, Bush, Sarkozy, Merkel, Solana and all the others take your word very seriously.

Russia's Gaprom just allowed France's Total oil company a large share in a Russian oil deal worth BILLIONS of dollars today.That my friends is REALPOLITIK.You beter believe Sarkozy is calling the judo master in Moscow and asking Putin how it is that France can be more constructive.France and Russia will be the best of friends after this oil deal is signed-LOL

Mister Petrovich,

According to you "American economy is in the nosedive".
Are you commenting from the US or from Nis, Serbia? You seem to be detached from the reality or simply want to spead desinformation. I work for a Wall Street firm. The Dow around 1 PM is up by 186.15 points at 13,764. The unemployment rate is - if I recall correctly - 4.5 %. The growth rate - after very high for 5-6 years - is still not bad with 2.5 - 3%. The housing industry stagnates after about 7 years of tremendous increases, where housing prices in the New York, Boston, and California areas doubled. Housing prices are currenly dropping in many areas but it is a buying opportunity. But the whole picture is not as bad as you would like to see it.
Mister Petrovich are you like some French with whom I debated so much few years ago, who predicted the immediate collapse of the US economy?

Luciano,
You forget that some people well informed remember well that BP and Shell also had billion dollar contracts with the Russians, for whom a contract does not mean too much. I think you know pretty well what happened to them. Already years ago I knew what will happen. I also have Russian collueges, who tell me horror stories about the meaning of a contract in real estate in Russia.
So knowing a lot about your dear Russians I can only wish the French "bonne chance". They will need it.

Joe -
That information you can find on any website sch as yahoo finance.
All the best.
Mickey Mouse.

dialogue betwem serbians e kosovars should continue

May the souls of every single person who died prematurely in the Balkans rest in eternal peace regardless of ethnicity or religious affiliation.The criminals who did not fight with honor and mercy for their fellow man should be brought to justice and it is the moral imperative of all peace loving people to stand up and say enough wars have been fought on the European continent.In 2007 I do not want to hear anybody in Europe say that we are going to go to war if you do not do as we say so who is saying this TODAY?

Looks like the Russians don't need days to deceide - deceide they have and it is clear that they won't have the wool pulled over their eyes!

The Russians say NO.
Russia attacks new Kosovo resolution - http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1290852920070712

Obligations, Obligations, Obligations.....

Joe, you know very well that the stock market is a poor indicator of the overall economy! The stock market was booming right before the 1929 collapse. If you take a good look at every aspect of basic economics 101 it is a miracle that we have not yet fallen into another GREAT DEPRESSION. How about the dollar, Housing market, manufacturing, trade deficit, real jobs (living wage jobs), government/household debt? these are real economic factors and all these point to economic collapse. The only thing holding us up right now is consumer spending (that took a nosedive in June) and that is fueled by bowering from China/EU/Canada/EU/Russia. The borrower is the servant/slave of the lender, is this what you consider a healthy economy?

Joe, thanks for the free advice on buying opportunity (U.S. real estate)
Perhaps Kosovo Albanian cartel should follow your advice - it seems as sound as your advice for the future of Serbian province of Kosovo.

According to Business Week:
"Today's housing prices are predicated on an impossible combination: the strong growth in income and asset values of a strong economy, plus the ultra-low interest rates of a weak economy. Either the economy's long-term prospects will get worse or rates will rise. In either scenario, housing will weaken."

Joe,

everything about US and UK growth in recent years is based upon credit (debt) but at some point that bill has to be paid and it will be expected in the next few years that is for sure - then you understand the term "correction" if you have a mortgage that is more then the house is worth and shares worth half or less then you bought them or a dollar that is worth 0.2euros - the military excersie has to be paid for!

“Nonetheless, we harbor no illusions – there is the issue of Kosovo which has to be settled first,” Kouchner told Beta news agency.

Funny how other diplomats say that EU and Kosovo are separate issues...

People really need to get their notes and issues on the same page...

"…As I just read on the French Figaro site Kouchner made clair to the Serbs that there will be no EU entry until the status of Kosovo is resolved.
This must be a cold shower to the Serbs,…" .
(Joe, Thursday, 12 July, 2007, 15:27)

Why? Why should we become member of EU? What could we gain and what would we loose if we join EU? World is a big, globalized place. We can trade with any one. We shell carefully consider all options and choose according to our own interests. Maybe it's much better for us to stay independent and just trade with EU and trade much more with other countries on other continents?

Russia is really helping Serbia! Really?
It is 1999 all over again. Serbia does not accept anything that it threaten their "integrity". People there should bee very proud of their politiants. It is Milosevic all over again. He was the one who fought the world because of Kosovo.
In the same route are going Kostunica an the crew.
I know it is very hard for serbs, but I will remind you again. You have lost Kosovo for good. Albanians will never bee ruled in their country by serbia. Serbia doesent have anything incomon with albanians. Never had before. Kosova it was held by force by many many years and they should realize it cant bee held anymore. There will bee an INDEPENDENCE of KOSOVA and serbia cant do anything about it.
What they should do is try to control places that are really in serbia. Presheva, Bujanofc and Medvegja will want out one day to if they continue the same politics.
People should realize that they lost a war yet again.

“We must NEVER forget what happened and NEVER say that it was something in the past. We must leave with it, otherwise we are not better than those who did it.
(present, Thursday, 12 July, 2007, 18:39)”

Unfortunately Present, that exactly how people like Milosevic and Mladic thought about the genocide we Serbs suffered in WWII, which as I’m sure you know, was most brutal. At some point we’ve just got to stop it. Considering the Albanians were the last ones to committed atrocities (99 and 2004) and that the ratio of Serb victims to Albanian victims (1 to 10) mirrors the population exactly, I’m a little confused about your statements. I’m willing to bet the dollar amount of the damage done to Serbia from the NATO bombing is fairly close to the damage done by Belgrade criminals to your homes. Regardless, I support Belgrade paying to repair the damage that was done, it’s the least we can do. I also support a real Truth & Reconciliation program to work out our various issues. The reality is, while the physical destruction suffered by your people was indeed massive, the number of dead when compared to other conflicts around the world was fairly minor. You sound like you think it was on the same scale of what the Nazi’s did to the poor Jews, and that just isn’t the case. If Serbs could deal with living with Croatians after WWII, I don’t think it should be too hard for your people, as long as many apologies and genuine support are given to your people.

Hatred only leads to more bloodshed in the Balkans, there has to be a point where we say enough is enough. You guys got back us pretty good, how much more do you really think Serbia deserves?

James,

You seem to be missing the point big time. 50% of the Serbian public would not trade EU membership for Kosovo. So, those sorts of threats are only going to alienate the Serbs even more. The EU can not afford to have hostile territory right in the middle of their country, it will cause a great deal of problems for them. Its fairly obvious that its an empty threat that has no basis in reality.

Joe,

The ONLY thing propping up our economy at the moment is the military-industrial complex. Wars are great for the economy in the short term, but in the long term, they are disastrous. All I can say is as an American who travels to other countries often, my salary has had the net effect of actually going down in terms of real value even though I made more dollars. The is most likely the real reason behind housing going up, the incredibly weak dollar.

I get the feeling sometimes when I listen to EU and US diplomats, that they are all just one person with different masks. They say the exact same thing. Almost to the word. What happened to the creativity in problem solving that diplomats used to have? Seems like they all downloaded the same Kosovo tune to their iPods and just keep playing it over and over.

Hey, can I be a diplomat from the EU? All they do is ape the same words. I could do that. And I'm a lot better looking than most of them. How many times will these people keep presenting the same resolution? This is kindergarten diplomacy.

RUSSIANS SAYS NO!!! What now?

Ceku's days are numbered, as is Bush's, come the end of the year the last thing on his agenda will be Kosovo. All he will be doing is trying to help his Republican party get re-elected. Blair is history! All the former Yugoslav Republics have publicly said they will not support illegal unilateral declaration of independence. Unemployment has now gone up to over 70% in Kosovo. But on another note the babies keep coming, who is going to support these kids? Its time to get real!

People in the world especially serb should know That russia and france are supporters of terrorism not the k alb's, russia for tears has tried to help the fanatics in the middle east erect nuclear power aka weapons plants for years.and still today with n korea.the french are almost just responsible for the atrocities that have happen in the balkans we give strong support to the slavs and muslim terrorist during the la90's and early 00's france has been the middle man for weapons leaving the balkans and sending them toiraq for oil vouchers it's not hearsay is a fact. So who are the terrorist here. The meaning of terrorist is,anyone or group of people who terrorize a people or community for their personal gain sounds like something the serb,s have been doing for the past few centuries enough is enough

Mr.Canadian, The same people who have helped in supporting you in the past will help us support ourselves. Kosova has been supporting serbia for many years with Soilders ,agriculture, and the air that they breathe serbia as it is now without kosova has absolutly nothing other then vojvadina which isn't technically all their's either once these lands are free what will you eat words don't fill your stomachs

Kouchner message sound like Fried message couple days ago but a little softer.
Ahtisaris plan has offered KosovA Serbs more than Serbia is offering Serb IDP’s.
At least in KosovA Serbs are called Serbs unlike in Serbia where they have no status, they are hated, called names and not wanted.
Posters here and Russia that are against the Ahtisari plan are not doing any favour to K-Serbs. One of the Serbs talking to me yesterday said:
”For Belgrade politicians 10000 Serbs remained in KosovA are not to many to gamble with. They know to gamble with 100ths i.e. Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova”
In KosovA are many more Serbs that think this way, in Serbia too. See the B92 in Serbian.

For you(minority) that do not leave in KosovA;
You have chosen to live your life away from Serbia. Your comment are not so helpful. All you are doing is telling us that your English is excellent and nothing else. We in KosovA don’t find this amusing.

Kouchner should explain why he failed as the first head of UNMIK as have subsequent administrators to ensure peace and security for all non-Albaninas in the Serbian province under 1244. As such what guarantees does another piece of paper providing so called guarantees of rights for all when it is already in place under 1244 and are not acted upon - why should any non-Albanian believe what Kouchner or Ahtisaari now suggest when the last 8 years have exemplified lack of human rights and actions to put things right and the standards they themselves set have been thrown out of the window - what can he say to prove anything would be different and if they were to be different that leads onto what and why couldn't it be acted upon now under 1244? Staus looks like the continuation of Serbia's sovereignity and will continue so there is no need for Ahtisaari in it's full to be implemented.

I think the Russians will look into the proposal by the UK & France and will find the glaring holes. The Russians will not be so quick to allow this 5th draft without more guarantees and the obligation to reaffirm Serbia's continued sovereign integrity. The Russians have always made it quite clear that any final resolution needs to guarantee the continuation of Sovereignity or else it is not something that is unique and must be applicable to everyone else - which is it to be Soverignity or self determination - can't have it both ways!

It is looking more and more certain that the final draft that will be passed is the "supervised autonomy" by the EU of Serbia's province or as I like to call it Ahtisaari 'Lite - plus'
- 0% Partition
-100% Serbian State
- Plus EU guarantor!

The EU will take the MIK out of the UNMIK and adminster the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija initially from Pristiina but then as trust and reconciliation builds it will move offices to Belgrade. If this is what passes in the Un and it certainly looks like it is moving in that direction already then I think we have an agreement that will be acceptable to all.

Olf, I carefully read your response three times. But I really can't make anything sensible out of it.

Seriously: why does the B92-editor allow this kind of reaction where it is absolutely impossible to understand anything at all. Knowledge of at least some basic english should be a requirement for allowing reactions on the ENGLISH-language part of this site.

Olf - glad to hear that you're communicating with your Serbian neighbours in Kosovo and asking them how they feel about the current situation and if they feel that Belgrade has let them down in any way. I am sure that they feel able to 'open up' to you.

Do you meet and chat in cafes together or do you just pop in to each others houses? I don't think so Olf.

"Ahtisaris plan has offered KosovA Serbs more than Serbia is offering Serb IDP’s."

According to Mr Ahtisaari this is the case, but he is neither qualified nor impartial. PLUS this is not an equal comparison. The responsibility for safe, planned, staged and militarily protected refugee returns lies with the UN under Resolution 1244.

They should get on and do the job that they are paid millions to do.

Some of the Serbians in KOSOVO, dont care about Kosovo, Albanians are starting to buy houses from them for very high inflated prices so there can be less and less Serbians in the Area. People have gotten houses worth really 30000 euro's they have received 450000 Euro's.

MLKG
ask someone that speaks English to explain them to you in Serbian.
Kate had no problem with it. Maybe because she is English?!

Kate
Serbs are don want to return to Kosova. Most of them have no property since they have sold them, some are afraid because Serbian politicians make the environment in Kosovo look unsafe and some have returned. Some have not left at all.
Yes, I meet everyday with my Serb colleagues/friends for a coffee. They feel free to talk since Kosova is not like some of the posters in here state. Reconciliation process have started and is in progress, of course that there are going to be setbacks but we should not focus on those. There is a lot to be done. New Kosova is moving ahead slowly.
Economy is slowly recovering amidst a lot of corruption but it is on the way up.
Many positive things happening in Kosova> shame for the progress to be halted because of some crazy politicians in Serbia.

"You are going to join the EU," French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner told Serb reporters in Belgrade.

"But when I say that, don't think that it is going to be before Kosovo is resolved peacefully," he said after meeting his Serbian counterpart, Vuk Jeremic.

"It is not possible to enter the EU with ethnic conflict," added Kouchner ...

Another high official making this clear to the Serb government. I guess, Albanians leaders in Kosovo can adopt the same tactic that Serbia has been using for some time now. How much worst can it get for them?. So, they can obstruct and never agree on anything so the conflict stays open and Serbia never gains EU membership. Things have a strange way of turning around to bite you. It is not good to be on the receiving end but then again some have never been on the receiving end long enough to learn something. And yet some have a steeper learning curve too ...

As I just read on the French Figaro site Kouchner made clair to the Serbs that there will be no EU entry until the status of Kosovo is resolved.
This must be a cold shower to the Serbs, who naively believe that with Russian procrastination they can keep the Kosovo issue unresolved for ever.

As expected, the road to independence has been bumpy. It will continue to be so. But at the end of it all, the outcome - independence - will be inevitable. No one can guarantee what the precise settlement formula will be -- I think it looks a lot likely that there will be some sort of Serbian entity-like proposals incorporated into the Ahtisari plan. That's what Russia will come to recognize in the next coming months, and, actually, that's what Belgrade's strategy has been all along: to win a Serbian entity within Kosovo. It's a bitter pill to swallow for everyone, but its a solution. Important thing is that northern Kosovo will formally remain a part of an independent Kosovo.

The north of Kosovo will risk being left out of the EU - much like the northern Cyrpus - unless it recognises the authority of Prishtina.

So the message is that over the medium term, Kosovo wins.

We need to continue to be patient. How sad to see some people who still think 'the EU administration will somehow move one day to Belgrade.'

Dream on...

It looks like the West are already looking at an alternative - partition.
Major powers nudge Serbs and Kosovo towards partition
http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1210293820070712
Looks like the West want partition more then some commentators such as Matthew, PB & Louie who have said all along they were open to such solutions. This would not be good as it would alienate all the peoples in the region and Serbia did recently say it was not interested - "Partition of Kosovo unacceptable”
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=07&dd=05&nav_category=90&nav_id=42232

As far as I am concerned partition is partition be it 15%, 5% or 1% Serbia can stick to it's principles and I am sure Russia will agree while it retains an interest such as sovereignity or self determination - which is it to be?

If Kouchner has truly said that Serbia must dismember itself if it wants to be part of the EU then he has clearly lost touch with the debate since it was only a few months ago that the EU were reiterating that EU acession and Kosovo are two seperate notions. If this was said then I am certain that Tadic will be immediatly requesting clarification from Brussels and all member states on the question - if they believe it is right that a new prerequisite to accession is the loss of 15% of a state?

Vive La France! Viva Portugal! God Save The Queen!Viva Italia!
And the list will grow.
Now for the Serbian side, RUSSIA,
Now for the posters in here, do you really think the rest of Europe hates 6 millions Serbs? Its for the best the independence. If you want to visit churches, come, if Kosovars want to use hospitals they will go to Belgrade. Economy will grow, and this way they will forget about the old generations blood spills. Build a new future.

Olf, you did touch upon an interesting subject and that is the status of the Kosovo Serbs in Serbia Proper. You're right, they are NOT well received by the general population. They're seen as little more than country bumpkins - sort of like placing a rural Mississippi dweller in the middle of New York City. The same goes for displaced Krajina Serbs in Vojvodina. And yes, many Belgrade politicians use these and other Serb refugees as political tools for their own end, but little else.

I remember a few months ago Oliver Ivanovic, in apparent frustration with Belgrade, said "tell us what to do. Should we stay [in Kosovo], or should be go?" With this, the Ahtisaari Plan DOES offer more tangible protections for the Serbs than what I hear coming from Belgrade. While I have made my clear reservations about Kosovo's independence, and while I believe there are tremendous obstacles still to overcome, the only thing I hear from Belgrade on a daily basis is rhetoric. How about a counter proposal to Ahtisaari? You can't just say "substantial autonomy" without defining its parameters.

I think the Ahtisaari Plan should be the foundations of the Kosovo Solution, but before we decide on a date for independence, let's figure out a) HOW independence can LEGALLY be achieved, and b) what exactly an independent Kosovo would look like (I still think bi-zonal confederation is the best).

Serbia will join the EU just as Cyprus has joined the EU and now the euro zone.Is it not ironic that Greeks and Turks are being encouraged to reconcile after 30 years of stalemate?When does Kouchner plan on France recognizing the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus?The legalist Europeans understand there is no legal way to revoke Serbia's deed to Kosovo given in 1912 BEFORE Yugoslavia even existed and that the Communist drawn pseudo borders were completely detrimental to Serbia.There is no need for Serbs to engage in any armed conflict over Kosovo but if the KLA attacks the right of self defense must be employed by anybody being attacked and for this reason the highly professional Seb Army should maintain excellent cooperation with all neighboring countries and NATO.It appears that Serbs will have allies this time around who will not be fooled again by who the provocateurs really are.A new UN Resolution will be passed giving the EU responsibility for Kosovo for the next 30 years but there will be NO mention of independence or Ahtissari's dead horse.If it has taken 30 years for Greeks and Turks to even talk in Cyprus then maybe it will take 30 years for Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo to talk intelligently with each other.However,for the time being all Serbs in Kosovo must move to protected zones in order not to be massacred by the Islamists once independence disappears from everybody's vocabulary.

The headline reads "Russian, French Kosovo stances close". This is GOOD NEWS for Serbia/Serbs. Maybe France is coming to its senses, seeing that they have their own problems with Radical, disenfranchised Muslims who have been rioting and will most likely use Kosovo independence as a spring board to their own agenda. A European wide backlash to the Islamic push is now in the process of gaining momentum, no matter how much Pro independence Albanians try to turn lemons into lemonade this will turn very sour for them soon.

Adriana,
Being allowed access to Belgrade hospitals is precisely what the Albanians won't get if a greater Albanian state is formed on Serbian land. These people are in for a rough couple of years. Who sold them this pipe dream?

Adriano,

You are right. If the Serbs want to visite those churches they can take hundreds of buses to go to Kosovo. I went to Medjugorje in Herzegovia in car. I saw hundreds of buses with pilgrims there. The Serbs could do the same in Kosovo. I doubt however very much they will do it since it is well known that they are not at all religious.

Adriano- correction 8.5 million Serbs in Serbia and RS and another 8.5 million like me living abroad (ancestors)

The CIA factbook lists 12 million Serbs and 140 million Russians along with 6 million Albanians worldwide.A million Americans are of Serb heritage and have contributed immensely to this country(governors,senators,athletes,businessmen,inventors)so any intelligent person who talks on behalf of the USA should learn these facts.What happened in the 1990's is ancient history and all groups in the Balkans have their angels and demons but as an American who is neither a Serb nor Albanian it is starting to annoy me how people who do not even write good English want to talk on behalf of America.The only candidate who is going to get elected to the White House next year is the one who promises to bring our boys home the QUICKEST.Notice how McCain who is supposed to be the frontrunner among the Republicans and supports continued US military involvement in Iraq is close to last with the public.Americans such as myself love our country but hate the fact our YOUNG boys have to die for the nonsensical policies of warmongers living in mansions and flying around in private jets seeking to promote conflicts in order to justify their own existence.Shalom

No partition, no independence. Under those circumstances we would rather not be a part of EU. We can live beside each other. But if EU wants us to give up KOSOVO for membership. Then I as a Serb fully reject that offer.

PS yes Serbs go to schools and learn 2, 3 or more languages. They can voice their opinion in any of those they wish.

KOSOVO WILL NEVER BE INDEPENDENT
CCCC

Adriano, independence and economic prosperity have nothing in common. American economy is in the nosedive, while Hong Kong economy is healthy. Hong Kong economy was healthy even when it was a colony. Yugoslav Federation and Serbia have poured billions of dollars into Kosovo economy before 1999, and so has EU after 1999 and what is the outcome - Kosovo is money pit. Not exactly promissing.

There is not a single country in the world that wants to be economically unsuccessful, yet many are.
Economy is both an art and science, and can not be propelled with declarations and with wishful thinking.
Economically speaking, Kosovo as an independent country is a failed state, stillborn. Selling drugs, weapons and running human traficking networks is lucrative but can not form a backbone of economy.

Before 1999 Kosovo was net exporter of electrical power. Read about Czechs selling electric power to Kosovo to get the full measure of Kosovo Albanian mismanagement of Kosovo economy - Kosovo can not produce enough electricity for local consumption, let alone for export. The cost is borne by local population who pay raked up prices.

luciano, what happened in 1990's is NOT ancient history. It was just a few years ago, and it happened before. There are still people very much alive who lost their family in that war and who have not found their families and you have no right to say that. Those people are still here. They are in the history books too, but they are here. Take back that comment and never again deny their suffering. Would you dare to tell those people in the face that in is ancient history? We must NEVER forget what happened and NEVER say that it was something in the past. We must leave with it, otherwise we are not better than those who did it.

Cvele wrote "KOSOVO WILL NEVER BE INDEPENDENT".
Yes Cvele, Bush, Sarkozy, Merkel, Solana and all the others take your word very seriously.

Russia's Gaprom just allowed France's Total oil company a large share in a Russian oil deal worth BILLIONS of dollars today.That my friends is REALPOLITIK.You beter believe Sarkozy is calling the judo master in Moscow and asking Putin how it is that France can be more constructive.France and Russia will be the best of friends after this oil deal is signed-LOL

Mister Petrovich,

According to you "American economy is in the nosedive".
Are you commenting from the US or from Nis, Serbia? You seem to be detached from the reality or simply want to spead desinformation. I work for a Wall Street firm. The Dow around 1 PM is up by 186.15 points at 13,764. The unemployment rate is - if I recall correctly - 4.5 %. The growth rate - after very high for 5-6 years - is still not bad with 2.5 - 3%. The housing industry stagnates after about 7 years of tremendous increases, where housing prices in the New York, Boston, and California areas doubled. Housing prices are currenly dropping in many areas but it is a buying opportunity. But the whole picture is not as bad as you would like to see it.
Mister Petrovich are you like some French with whom I debated so much few years ago, who predicted the immediate collapse of the US economy?

Luciano,
You forget that some people well informed remember well that BP and Shell also had billion dollar contracts with the Russians, for whom a contract does not mean too much. I think you know pretty well what happened to them. Already years ago I knew what will happen. I also have Russian collueges, who tell me horror stories about the meaning of a contract in real estate in Russia.
So knowing a lot about your dear Russians I can only wish the French "bonne chance". They will need it.

Joe -
That information you can find on any website sch as yahoo finance.
All the best.
Mickey Mouse.

dialogue betwem serbians e kosovars should continue

May the souls of every single person who died prematurely in the Balkans rest in eternal peace regardless of ethnicity or religious affiliation.The criminals who did not fight with honor and mercy for their fellow man should be brought to justice and it is the moral imperative of all peace loving people to stand up and say enough wars have been fought on the European continent.In 2007 I do not want to hear anybody in Europe say that we are going to go to war if you do not do as we say so who is saying this TODAY?

Looks like the Russians don't need days to deceide - deceide they have and it is clear that they won't have the wool pulled over their eyes!

The Russians say NO.
Russia attacks new Kosovo resolution - http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1290852920070712

Obligations, Obligations, Obligations.....

Joe, you know very well that the stock market is a poor indicator of the overall economy! The stock market was booming right before the 1929 collapse. If you take a good look at every aspect of basic economics 101 it is a miracle that we have not yet fallen into another GREAT DEPRESSION. How about the dollar, Housing market, manufacturing, trade deficit, real jobs (living wage jobs), government/household debt? these are real economic factors and all these point to economic collapse. The only thing holding us up right now is consumer spending (that took a nosedive in June) and that is fueled by bowering from China/EU/Canada/EU/Russia. The borrower is the servant/slave of the lender, is this what you consider a healthy economy?

Joe, thanks for the free advice on buying opportunity (U.S. real estate)
Perhaps Kosovo Albanian cartel should follow your advice - it seems as sound as your advice for the future of Serbian province of Kosovo.

According to Business Week:
"Today's housing prices are predicated on an impossible combination: the strong growth in income and asset values of a strong economy, plus the ultra-low interest rates of a weak economy. Either the economy's long-term prospects will get worse or rates will rise. In either scenario, housing will weaken."

Joe,

everything about US and UK growth in recent years is based upon credit (debt) but at some point that bill has to be paid and it will be expected in the next few years that is for sure - then you understand the term "correction" if you have a mortgage that is more then the house is worth and shares worth half or less then you bought them or a dollar that is worth 0.2euros - the military excersie has to be paid for!

“Nonetheless, we harbor no illusions – there is the issue of Kosovo which has to be settled first,” Kouchner told Beta news agency.

Funny how other diplomats say that EU and Kosovo are separate issues...

People really need to get their notes and issues on the same page...

"…As I just read on the French Figaro site Kouchner made clair to the Serbs that there will be no EU entry until the status of Kosovo is resolved.
This must be a cold shower to the Serbs,…" .
(Joe, Thursday, 12 July, 2007, 15:27)

Why? Why should we become member of EU? What could we gain and what would we loose if we join EU? World is a big, globalized place. We can trade with any one. We shell carefully consider all options and choose according to our own interests. Maybe it's much better for us to stay independent and just trade with EU and trade much more with other countries on other continents?

Russia is really helping Serbia! Really?
It is 1999 all over again. Serbia does not accept anything that it threaten their "integrity". People there should bee very proud of their politiants. It is Milosevic all over again. He was the one who fought the world because of Kosovo.
In the same route are going Kostunica an the crew.
I know it is very hard for serbs, but I will remind you again. You have lost Kosovo for good. Albanians will never bee ruled in their country by serbia. Serbia doesent have anything incomon with albanians. Never had before. Kosova it was held by force by many many years and they should realize it cant bee held anymore. There will bee an INDEPENDENCE of KOSOVA and serbia cant do anything about it.
What they should do is try to control places that are really in serbia. Presheva, Bujanofc and Medvegja will want out one day to if they continue the same politics.
People should realize that they lost a war yet again.

“We must NEVER forget what happened and NEVER say that it was something in the past. We must leave with it, otherwise we are not better than those who did it.
(present, Thursday, 12 July, 2007, 18:39)”

Unfortunately Present, that exactly how people like Milosevic and Mladic thought about the genocide we Serbs suffered in WWII, which as I’m sure you know, was most brutal. At some point we’ve just got to stop it. Considering the Albanians were the last ones to committed atrocities (99 and 2004) and that the ratio of Serb victims to Albanian victims (1 to 10) mirrors the population exactly, I’m a little confused about your statements. I’m willing to bet the dollar amount of the damage done to Serbia from the NATO bombing is fairly close to the damage done by Belgrade criminals to your homes. Regardless, I support Belgrade paying to repair the damage that was done, it’s the least we can do. I also support a real Truth & Reconciliation program to work out our various issues. The reality is, while the physical destruction suffered by your people was indeed massive, the number of dead when compared to other conflicts around the world was fairly minor. You sound like you think it was on the same scale of what the Nazi’s did to the poor Jews, and that just isn’t the case. If Serbs could deal with living with Croatians after WWII, I don’t think it should be too hard for your people, as long as many apologies and genuine support are given to your people.

Hatred only leads to more bloodshed in the Balkans, there has to be a point where we say enough is enough. You guys got back us pretty good, how much more do you really think Serbia deserves?

James,

You seem to be missing the point big time. 50% of the Serbian public would not trade EU membership for Kosovo. So, those sorts of threats are only going to alienate the Serbs even more. The EU can not afford to have hostile territory right in the middle of their country, it will cause a great deal of problems for them. Its fairly obvious that its an empty threat that has no basis in reality.

Joe,

The ONLY thing propping up our economy at the moment is the military-industrial complex. Wars are great for the economy in the short term, but in the long term, they are disastrous. All I can say is as an American who travels to other countries often, my salary has had the net effect of actually going down in terms of real value even though I made more dollars. The is most likely the real reason behind housing going up, the incredibly weak dollar.

I get the feeling sometimes when I listen to EU and US diplomats, that they are all just one person with different masks. They say the exact same thing. Almost to the word. What happened to the creativity in problem solving that diplomats used to have? Seems like they all downloaded the same Kosovo tune to their iPods and just keep playing it over and over.

Hey, can I be a diplomat from the EU? All they do is ape the same words. I could do that. And I'm a lot better looking than most of them. How many times will these people keep presenting the same resolution? This is kindergarten diplomacy.

RUSSIANS SAYS NO!!! What now?

Ceku's days are numbered, as is Bush's, come the end of the year the last thing on his agenda will be Kosovo. All he will be doing is trying to help his Republican party get re-elected. Blair is history! All the former Yugoslav Republics have publicly said they will not support illegal unilateral declaration of independence. Unemployment has now gone up to over 70% in Kosovo. But on another note the babies keep coming, who is going to support these kids? Its time to get real!

People in the world especially serb should know That russia and france are supporters of terrorism not the k alb's, russia for tears has tried to help the fanatics in the middle east erect nuclear power aka weapons plants for years.and still today with n korea.the french are almost just responsible for the atrocities that have happen in the balkans we give strong support to the slavs and muslim terrorist during the la90's and early 00's france has been the middle man for weapons leaving the balkans and sending them toiraq for oil vouchers it's not hearsay is a fact. So who are the terrorist here. The meaning of terrorist is,anyone or group of people who terrorize a people or community for their personal gain sounds like something the serb,s have been doing for the past few centuries enough is enough

Mr.Canadian, The same people who have helped in supporting you in the past will help us support ourselves. Kosova has been supporting serbia for many years with Soilders ,agriculture, and the air that they breathe serbia as it is now without kosova has absolutly nothing other then vojvadina which isn't technically all their's either once these lands are free what will you eat words don't fill your stomachs