27

Wednesday, 11.07.2007.

11:58

"UK backs supervised independence"

The UK still believes the Ahtisaari plan for Kosovo is the best foundation, British Ambassador Stephen Wordsworth told Beta.

Izvor: Beta

"UK backs supervised independence" IMAGE SOURCE
IMAGE DESCRIPTION

27 Komentari

Sortiraj po:

Jon

pre 16 godina

Jovan, It is Serbs that came to Europe and destroyed all the facts that Kosova was never theirs. You cannot ignore the fact that Serbs came to balkan on the 7th century. Anyway, you guys are ignoring the albanian population is growing rapidly. If (and I say with BIG IF), Kosova stays parts of the Serbia, then Kosova will be an Serbian cancer. Serbia as a "democratic" country will have to allow albainians to live anywhere they like. Even on the territories that they use to live before (like my grandmother used to live in a village near Nish etc). If you check the statistics, by 2050 then the majority in Serbia is going to be albanian. Then by then we will declare the whole Serbia as an independent albanian country. Guys, wake up and don't waist your time with this nonsense, you are better of to forget about your dreams that Kosovo is going to be part of Serbia.

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

Jovan , I am beginning to understand you and at least my conclusion is that you don't even know where your roots are from let alone to speak for one of the oldest and distinguished nationality in Europe and I am talking about Albanians. Do you know that slavik language is spoken only by eastern europeamns, which serbia is part of . On mena time albanian isan old Indo-Europiean language that one speaks it just like German, Fench and English.

Zeci

pre 16 godina

When I read some of the comments by my fellow neighbours I realise the enormity of the task facing our future generations.
It seems that decades of brainwashing and apartheid filth that has come from the mouthpiece of Milosevic’s regime (Serbian Television) has done its work.
This propaganda machine has created a generation of wretched fanatical followers that have embraced in they psyche this long lasting “righteousness” of Serbian nation. Sadly, some of comments posted here confirm this.
How did this happen? Let’s stop and think here! A 12 Year old in 1985 would have been a ripe killing machine by 1992. When you teach your people to hate and fear other pople , when you teach that they are lesser man because of they beliefs or the policies they pursue, the result is the later . And do not dare deny it, we could get RTS to.

Fast forward 2007 and not much has changed. You still put in power a Fascist Party run by a war criminal (talking about scoring an own goal). You have still made a choice to move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization - Serbs people amongst Serbs, and Albanians amongst Albanians, filled with hatred toward one another.
It is amazing that none of you seems to have the decency to admit this mindless menace of violence and hatred that still exist in your country. You have to understand that you can not build your lives by repressing the lives of the others. You tried and you have lost.
So my dear nighbours , you need to start cleansing your society from this evil ideology.
I’m here to tell you in case you don’t know it, that you got a new generation of Kosovans in our new country who don’t care anything whatsoever about odds when it comes to the issue of liberty and freedom. Reason: every generation has been affected by your state brutality. And we do not need some history book to read about it. We experienced it.
My point is this: Kosovo train has left and does not plan to stop in Belgrade…. Ever!

Pavarsi

pre 16 godina

Hey Jovan you talk about "wishful thinking" and "naitivity" but what are really saying?

Wishful thinking?? You ever heard a serbian propaganda "Kosova is serbian" , are you kidding me? Us Kosovars laugh at such remarks bc the people who seem to repeat an old and washed out propaganda are people who 1)have never been to kosova 2)dont live there or nevere have 3)pride serbia as the greatest country.

Do us a favor and go live in Republic of Kosova like the rest of us than maybe us "naive" Kosovars will listen to your cries about how the WEST is this and how this and that against serbian people.

Good day to all.

PS
All posters who refer to me plz refer with my name "Pavarsi".

Olf

pre 16 godina

Using your logic posted here then America was never American, it belonged to the Indians and hence should now be returned to the native Indians.
(Canadien, Wednesday, 11 July, 2007, 18:32)

Sorry Canadien, I did not mean to hurt your feelings, I know that you are naturalised Canadian.
My reply to your comment would be” You know very well what am I talking about” and my point will be proven very soon from you.

GSP

pre 16 godina

It's nice to see that the UK backs this & the UN supports that as well as the US putting their two cents in, but the bottom line is that still as of today, these are just words.

KosovO is still a part of Serbia no matter what anyone says from the "greater albania".

Why don't you just admit that's what you wanted in the first place? Ahmet admitted it. He admits it every single time he posts his aversion to the Serbs on B92. Even goes as far as to correct the B92 webmaster to put what HE wants on the commentaries. Right, Ahmet?

Jovan

pre 16 godina

to all those albanian dreamers, who still spread that nonsense about "Kosovo never been serbian"...

why are even the Albanians using the SERBIAN name for that serbian province?

why are there several hundreds of SERBIAN orthodox sacral monuments, graveyards, churches and so on...?

why are all artefacts found in the ground showing that SERBS cultivated this part of europe?

and if that all is not serbian, especially the churches and monuments... why are Albanians burning it down then?

you can learn about Kosovo´s history in every serious (non-albanian) history-learning-book.

jerseyshore

pre 16 godina

http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/kosovo_conflict.html

Adriano and all other screamers of "Blood Was Spilled", please click the link above. It will give you a quick reason why Serbia has claim to Kosovo.

Matthew

pre 16 godina

"Kosovo is different than the vague arguments you seem to mention lady and gentlemen"
Adriano,
Please explain to me how Kosovo is different from Kurdistan. Oh yeah, it is different, they have much better reasons for independence.
First off, they have absolutely no country to call their own at all. At least you have Albania if you need it. The Kurds have nothing at all.
Often Albanians dismiss the desire of those Black Sea peoples who wish for their own independence because of numbers. "They only have 50,000 but we number 2 million in Kosovo". Well my friends, Kurds make up 35 million people! Kurds will soon be the third largest ethnic group in the Middle East.
Albanians heavily site humanitarian reasons. 10,000 killed in Kosovo, 800,000 thousand forced to flee their homes.
30,000 alone have been killed in fighting in Turkey over Kurdish independence. Thousands killed in Iraq with poison gas. Far worse then what happened in Kosovo. Millions have been forced to flee Iraq in recent times.
In Turkey, the mere mention of the Armenian genocide will land you in jail. You claim Serbia is bad, yet I have no fear of a similar punishment for my many comments condemning Serbian atrocities in Bosnia and Kosovo.
The reality is the Kurds have been fighting for independence for hundreds and hundreds of years. The have been slaughtered in the 10's of thousands using such brutal methods as WMD's. They have no homeland, not even one, and they are the only stable area of Iraq, yet Turkey wants to move their military into Iraq to go after them.
Who is more deserving of Independence? Kosovo or Kurdistan?
The answer is obvious.
So why is Kosovo so important? Its in Europe? Well, considering Turkey is also a potential EU member, that makes no sense either.
BTW, in the past and present Mexicans have been treated rather unfairly in the US. I live in California and I know what's going on. The INS recently has been staking out elementary schools and arresting the parents of American citizens and sending them back to Mexico separating parents from their children. This is horrible! The US stole Texas to California recently, I actually do support giving California our independence. We would be much better off being independent of those crazies in Washington and the rest of the country. We would have something like the 5th highest GDP of any country in the world. Kosovo simply can not compare to that sort of economic independence.

laki NY

pre 16 godina

kate , princip, cvele, dragan ,.. and all people who chose to ignore facts and believe on their made up stories soon to turn myths.
Read the following if you think EU is backing up from independence for Kosova.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070711/wl_afp/kosovoserbiaeu_070711174059

Some quoted statements
"Give us a few months," Kouchner said last week. "But at the end of those few months, it's the red line -- we must take a decision."
"Diplomats said European governments were ready to recognize Kosovo, even without a UN resolution. "We will take responsibility," said a European diplomat."

"We will not play into the hands of someone for 10 years," he said, referring to Russia, which has threatened to veto any UN Security Council resolution on Kosovo that does not meet with Serbia's approval.

adriano

pre 16 godina

Dear kate. Its seems you want to touch on the precedent that this might set, but let me tell you that my country never attacked anybody because they wanted to speak their own language.
And mr petrovich I am a little tired of reading that mexicans should get texas and muslims should get part of england. if america cleansed mexicans now than yes they should take that part of the land like california, but if it was just to grab land they would go up to canada because the grass is greener.
Kosovo is different than the vague arguments you seem to mention lady and gentlemen, majority albanian who live there and are worried about their future with out a status, and the opposition who sees it as 15%land,who claim it because they have a day they lost a war 600 years ago 28june i believe?
Think of this kate and all others, If we take russia and america away, kosovos independence still is supported by 4 leading European nations, and its not because they love 2 million k-albanians, or neither do they hate 6 million serbs, its because they know that once blood spills you cant work it out with out self government.
And as for my country giving 15% away, well that 15% its its worth 0.28% here but its 8%of the population. GO Australia

Canadien

pre 16 godina

Olf,

Using your logic posted here then America was never American, it belonged to the Indians and hence should now be returned to the native Indians.

Anthony

pre 16 godina

The British government continues to support such 'noble goals of oppressed people' around the world for independence and self determination but continues to keep its boot on the neck of the Irish in the 6 counties. Since 1167 the English have occupied Ireland.

Why don't the Saxons sort out their own house and provinces before they worry about anyone else's.

26+6=1

Olf

pre 16 godina

Britain was never Indian. Didnt you learn any history Bob, do us a favour, firts learn some facts about britain then start talkin for the others.

Kosova was never Serbian, it was occupied from Serbia but never serbian, same as India that was never British

lowe

pre 16 godina

"He also remarked that splitting Kosovo would not be a good idea, although that could change if Belgrade and Priština were to reach an accord on the issue"

Why wouldn't it be a good idea? It is a sensible idea -- then Serbs and Albanians need not live in fear of each other henceforth.

Matthew

pre 16 godina

I think you all missed a very important point.

“He also remarked that splitting Kosovo would not be a good idea, although that could change if Belgrade and Priština were to reach an accord on the issue.”

This seems to be the first comments from the West in support of partition!!!! Even James Lyon of the ICG admitted in his blog that if we were to work together on partition, the international community would support it.

Its time to get serious about partition…

hasan

pre 16 godina

Kosova will be independent very soon. It is a US stragetic goal and cannot be stopped by anyone. I don't know why it is so difficult to understand? Internationally 'Supervised' autonomy can never work. Legally speaking, supervising autonomy is more illegal than just recognizing a secession. There are precedents of territories seceding from other countries but there is no precedent of part of a country being under international "supervision"...

Bob Petrovich

pre 16 godina

Since United Kingdom is one of the oldest European democracies, and Serbia one of the most backward countries, United Kingdom should lead by example and allow Muslims to declare independence on 4000 sq. miles of British soil, stretching from Westminter to Canterbury.
I am sure that Muslims will gladly flock into several postal codes to make 93% of the population of Independent Londona(international name). Expelling some 400 000 Englishmen will speed up the process.

Mr. Brown should know that it does not seem right that backward Serbia leads by example such fine country as U.K.

Independent Londonistan first, then Serbia can consider Independent Kosova.

Daniel

pre 16 godina

kate, even with kosovo autonomy, what makes u think serbia will have any say in its affairs again? what makes u think that kosovo will be serb again and more importantly how do you propose that happens? sure on paper u may have kosovo but u would be really who would be kidding who then?

Daniel

pre 16 godina

Princip only country desperate is Serbia hence why it has sold its soul to Russia. Oh and Im sure in time we will find out exactly what price serbia has had to pay for russian support. the way serbia has simply been removed from international negotiations is rather embarrassing really. no other country in the world has had to rely on another so much and should somehow kosovo become part of serbia, im sure in time we will find out exactly what price serbia has had to pay to russia for its support.

And princip amongst all of your statements you have never managed to explain the benefits to serbs of having kosovo remain part of serbia or benefits to kosovars by remaining part of serbia. only thing coming from you statements which only show that u have no respect to residents of kosovo.

kate

pre 16 godina

Adriano - Don't be ridiculous! It's their land you're talking about. Would you want your country to hand over 15% of its territory?

Pavarsi

pre 16 godina

Hey princip why is it that you think the way you do?

What makes you think that any great power is trying to pass any resolution through UN?

The real politics is getting the Kosovars to declare INDEPENDENCE. Once USA (my country) recognize it than so will UK, Germany, Italy, etc.

Do you see how International Affairs are carried out? Not by cutting Gas to Europe or threatning Europe with shortgage of OIL.

Don't ge me wrong, the world sphere is taking RUSSIA or USSR more serious but they will to a certain point.

Anyways, proclamation of independence or "one sided declaration" (how is the support of over 93% pop be "ONE SIDED??") is even worse for serbia.

An article a few weeks ago in big fonts wrote "How to Declare Independence". What got me interested was how it mentioned that the place/region/country that declares independence needs to declare the borders as well; now doesn't Kosova have some regions of Kosovars in Serbia...like the Presheva-Valley?

How the future of Balkans is shaping up, very interesting, let's keep pushing the status more and more until someone declares some "one sided"
solutions.

adriano

pre 16 godina

It feels that serbia even if they wanted to approve of the kosovo independence, they would have a hard time as the russians are having too much fun with their newly found diplomatic say in the free world.
I have a question for all the serb barristers here. What does serbia really want from kosovo that they cant get after independence?

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

Before Ahtisari's package was revealed , 1244 resolution was the most hated thing by serbs and serb lovers. Now all of suden is the best thing. Come on guys make up your mind.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

some here, Pavarsi included, in fact do not seem to see how "political affairs are being carried out".

a few months you were boasting Russia will back down or restrain before he "one and only global superpower" ...I laughed about that level of naivity.
then after it became clear that there wouldn´t pass a resolution in the UNSC that does not respect international law, you started another tune... "we will be independent one way or another"
and now some are beginning to teach us here about how politics works!

to me, that sounds like WISHFUL THINKING!

in the end there will be great anger among the K-albanians.
THEN they will have the opportunity to show that they are a civilized society.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

UK backs what evr is deceided and will not act to undermine the UN since it has clearly learnt that ignoring the UN process really does not reflect well on those who act outside it. More importantly the UK is obligated by 1244 to uphold Serbia's integrity and if it was happy to formulate & sign that 8 years ago then clearly it must continue to do so. It would seem that the US & UK technocrats are getting more desperate by the day and now are proposing that a new resolution for talks to continue are passed - but hang on 1244 already allows this - are they that desperate to see that this is just a poor attempt at trying to ignore what they had already agreed - would not expect any new resolution any time soon!

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

UK backs what evr is deceided and will not act to undermine the UN since it has clearly learnt that ignoring the UN process really does not reflect well on those who act outside it. More importantly the UK is obligated by 1244 to uphold Serbia's integrity and if it was happy to formulate & sign that 8 years ago then clearly it must continue to do so. It would seem that the US & UK technocrats are getting more desperate by the day and now are proposing that a new resolution for talks to continue are passed - but hang on 1244 already allows this - are they that desperate to see that this is just a poor attempt at trying to ignore what they had already agreed - would not expect any new resolution any time soon!

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

Before Ahtisari's package was revealed , 1244 resolution was the most hated thing by serbs and serb lovers. Now all of suden is the best thing. Come on guys make up your mind.

Pavarsi

pre 16 godina

Hey princip why is it that you think the way you do?

What makes you think that any great power is trying to pass any resolution through UN?

The real politics is getting the Kosovars to declare INDEPENDENCE. Once USA (my country) recognize it than so will UK, Germany, Italy, etc.

Do you see how International Affairs are carried out? Not by cutting Gas to Europe or threatning Europe with shortgage of OIL.

Don't ge me wrong, the world sphere is taking RUSSIA or USSR more serious but they will to a certain point.

Anyways, proclamation of independence or "one sided declaration" (how is the support of over 93% pop be "ONE SIDED??") is even worse for serbia.

An article a few weeks ago in big fonts wrote "How to Declare Independence". What got me interested was how it mentioned that the place/region/country that declares independence needs to declare the borders as well; now doesn't Kosova have some regions of Kosovars in Serbia...like the Presheva-Valley?

How the future of Balkans is shaping up, very interesting, let's keep pushing the status more and more until someone declares some "one sided"
solutions.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

some here, Pavarsi included, in fact do not seem to see how "political affairs are being carried out".

a few months you were boasting Russia will back down or restrain before he "one and only global superpower" ...I laughed about that level of naivity.
then after it became clear that there wouldn´t pass a resolution in the UNSC that does not respect international law, you started another tune... "we will be independent one way or another"
and now some are beginning to teach us here about how politics works!

to me, that sounds like WISHFUL THINKING!

in the end there will be great anger among the K-albanians.
THEN they will have the opportunity to show that they are a civilized society.

adriano

pre 16 godina

It feels that serbia even if they wanted to approve of the kosovo independence, they would have a hard time as the russians are having too much fun with their newly found diplomatic say in the free world.
I have a question for all the serb barristers here. What does serbia really want from kosovo that they cant get after independence?

kate

pre 16 godina

Adriano - Don't be ridiculous! It's their land you're talking about. Would you want your country to hand over 15% of its territory?

Daniel

pre 16 godina

Princip only country desperate is Serbia hence why it has sold its soul to Russia. Oh and Im sure in time we will find out exactly what price serbia has had to pay for russian support. the way serbia has simply been removed from international negotiations is rather embarrassing really. no other country in the world has had to rely on another so much and should somehow kosovo become part of serbia, im sure in time we will find out exactly what price serbia has had to pay to russia for its support.

And princip amongst all of your statements you have never managed to explain the benefits to serbs of having kosovo remain part of serbia or benefits to kosovars by remaining part of serbia. only thing coming from you statements which only show that u have no respect to residents of kosovo.

Daniel

pre 16 godina

kate, even with kosovo autonomy, what makes u think serbia will have any say in its affairs again? what makes u think that kosovo will be serb again and more importantly how do you propose that happens? sure on paper u may have kosovo but u would be really who would be kidding who then?

hasan

pre 16 godina

Kosova will be independent very soon. It is a US stragetic goal and cannot be stopped by anyone. I don't know why it is so difficult to understand? Internationally 'Supervised' autonomy can never work. Legally speaking, supervising autonomy is more illegal than just recognizing a secession. There are precedents of territories seceding from other countries but there is no precedent of part of a country being under international "supervision"...

Bob Petrovich

pre 16 godina

Since United Kingdom is one of the oldest European democracies, and Serbia one of the most backward countries, United Kingdom should lead by example and allow Muslims to declare independence on 4000 sq. miles of British soil, stretching from Westminter to Canterbury.
I am sure that Muslims will gladly flock into several postal codes to make 93% of the population of Independent Londona(international name). Expelling some 400 000 Englishmen will speed up the process.

Mr. Brown should know that it does not seem right that backward Serbia leads by example such fine country as U.K.

Independent Londonistan first, then Serbia can consider Independent Kosova.

Olf

pre 16 godina

Britain was never Indian. Didnt you learn any history Bob, do us a favour, firts learn some facts about britain then start talkin for the others.

Kosova was never Serbian, it was occupied from Serbia but never serbian, same as India that was never British

Matthew

pre 16 godina

I think you all missed a very important point.

“He also remarked that splitting Kosovo would not be a good idea, although that could change if Belgrade and Priština were to reach an accord on the issue.”

This seems to be the first comments from the West in support of partition!!!! Even James Lyon of the ICG admitted in his blog that if we were to work together on partition, the international community would support it.

Its time to get serious about partition…

lowe

pre 16 godina

"He also remarked that splitting Kosovo would not be a good idea, although that could change if Belgrade and Priština were to reach an accord on the issue"

Why wouldn't it be a good idea? It is a sensible idea -- then Serbs and Albanians need not live in fear of each other henceforth.

Anthony

pre 16 godina

The British government continues to support such 'noble goals of oppressed people' around the world for independence and self determination but continues to keep its boot on the neck of the Irish in the 6 counties. Since 1167 the English have occupied Ireland.

Why don't the Saxons sort out their own house and provinces before they worry about anyone else's.

26+6=1

Canadien

pre 16 godina

Olf,

Using your logic posted here then America was never American, it belonged to the Indians and hence should now be returned to the native Indians.

adriano

pre 16 godina

Dear kate. Its seems you want to touch on the precedent that this might set, but let me tell you that my country never attacked anybody because they wanted to speak their own language.
And mr petrovich I am a little tired of reading that mexicans should get texas and muslims should get part of england. if america cleansed mexicans now than yes they should take that part of the land like california, but if it was just to grab land they would go up to canada because the grass is greener.
Kosovo is different than the vague arguments you seem to mention lady and gentlemen, majority albanian who live there and are worried about their future with out a status, and the opposition who sees it as 15%land,who claim it because they have a day they lost a war 600 years ago 28june i believe?
Think of this kate and all others, If we take russia and america away, kosovos independence still is supported by 4 leading European nations, and its not because they love 2 million k-albanians, or neither do they hate 6 million serbs, its because they know that once blood spills you cant work it out with out self government.
And as for my country giving 15% away, well that 15% its its worth 0.28% here but its 8%of the population. GO Australia

Matthew

pre 16 godina

"Kosovo is different than the vague arguments you seem to mention lady and gentlemen"
Adriano,
Please explain to me how Kosovo is different from Kurdistan. Oh yeah, it is different, they have much better reasons for independence.
First off, they have absolutely no country to call their own at all. At least you have Albania if you need it. The Kurds have nothing at all.
Often Albanians dismiss the desire of those Black Sea peoples who wish for their own independence because of numbers. "They only have 50,000 but we number 2 million in Kosovo". Well my friends, Kurds make up 35 million people! Kurds will soon be the third largest ethnic group in the Middle East.
Albanians heavily site humanitarian reasons. 10,000 killed in Kosovo, 800,000 thousand forced to flee their homes.
30,000 alone have been killed in fighting in Turkey over Kurdish independence. Thousands killed in Iraq with poison gas. Far worse then what happened in Kosovo. Millions have been forced to flee Iraq in recent times.
In Turkey, the mere mention of the Armenian genocide will land you in jail. You claim Serbia is bad, yet I have no fear of a similar punishment for my many comments condemning Serbian atrocities in Bosnia and Kosovo.
The reality is the Kurds have been fighting for independence for hundreds and hundreds of years. The have been slaughtered in the 10's of thousands using such brutal methods as WMD's. They have no homeland, not even one, and they are the only stable area of Iraq, yet Turkey wants to move their military into Iraq to go after them.
Who is more deserving of Independence? Kosovo or Kurdistan?
The answer is obvious.
So why is Kosovo so important? Its in Europe? Well, considering Turkey is also a potential EU member, that makes no sense either.
BTW, in the past and present Mexicans have been treated rather unfairly in the US. I live in California and I know what's going on. The INS recently has been staking out elementary schools and arresting the parents of American citizens and sending them back to Mexico separating parents from their children. This is horrible! The US stole Texas to California recently, I actually do support giving California our independence. We would be much better off being independent of those crazies in Washington and the rest of the country. We would have something like the 5th highest GDP of any country in the world. Kosovo simply can not compare to that sort of economic independence.

laki NY

pre 16 godina

kate , princip, cvele, dragan ,.. and all people who chose to ignore facts and believe on their made up stories soon to turn myths.
Read the following if you think EU is backing up from independence for Kosova.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070711/wl_afp/kosovoserbiaeu_070711174059

Some quoted statements
"Give us a few months," Kouchner said last week. "But at the end of those few months, it's the red line -- we must take a decision."
"Diplomats said European governments were ready to recognize Kosovo, even without a UN resolution. "We will take responsibility," said a European diplomat."

"We will not play into the hands of someone for 10 years," he said, referring to Russia, which has threatened to veto any UN Security Council resolution on Kosovo that does not meet with Serbia's approval.

jerseyshore

pre 16 godina

http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/kosovo_conflict.html

Adriano and all other screamers of "Blood Was Spilled", please click the link above. It will give you a quick reason why Serbia has claim to Kosovo.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

to all those albanian dreamers, who still spread that nonsense about "Kosovo never been serbian"...

why are even the Albanians using the SERBIAN name for that serbian province?

why are there several hundreds of SERBIAN orthodox sacral monuments, graveyards, churches and so on...?

why are all artefacts found in the ground showing that SERBS cultivated this part of europe?

and if that all is not serbian, especially the churches and monuments... why are Albanians burning it down then?

you can learn about Kosovo´s history in every serious (non-albanian) history-learning-book.

GSP

pre 16 godina

It's nice to see that the UK backs this & the UN supports that as well as the US putting their two cents in, but the bottom line is that still as of today, these are just words.

KosovO is still a part of Serbia no matter what anyone says from the "greater albania".

Why don't you just admit that's what you wanted in the first place? Ahmet admitted it. He admits it every single time he posts his aversion to the Serbs on B92. Even goes as far as to correct the B92 webmaster to put what HE wants on the commentaries. Right, Ahmet?

Olf

pre 16 godina

Using your logic posted here then America was never American, it belonged to the Indians and hence should now be returned to the native Indians.
(Canadien, Wednesday, 11 July, 2007, 18:32)

Sorry Canadien, I did not mean to hurt your feelings, I know that you are naturalised Canadian.
My reply to your comment would be” You know very well what am I talking about” and my point will be proven very soon from you.

Pavarsi

pre 16 godina

Hey Jovan you talk about "wishful thinking" and "naitivity" but what are really saying?

Wishful thinking?? You ever heard a serbian propaganda "Kosova is serbian" , are you kidding me? Us Kosovars laugh at such remarks bc the people who seem to repeat an old and washed out propaganda are people who 1)have never been to kosova 2)dont live there or nevere have 3)pride serbia as the greatest country.

Do us a favor and go live in Republic of Kosova like the rest of us than maybe us "naive" Kosovars will listen to your cries about how the WEST is this and how this and that against serbian people.

Good day to all.

PS
All posters who refer to me plz refer with my name "Pavarsi".

Zeci

pre 16 godina

When I read some of the comments by my fellow neighbours I realise the enormity of the task facing our future generations.
It seems that decades of brainwashing and apartheid filth that has come from the mouthpiece of Milosevic’s regime (Serbian Television) has done its work.
This propaganda machine has created a generation of wretched fanatical followers that have embraced in they psyche this long lasting “righteousness” of Serbian nation. Sadly, some of comments posted here confirm this.
How did this happen? Let’s stop and think here! A 12 Year old in 1985 would have been a ripe killing machine by 1992. When you teach your people to hate and fear other pople , when you teach that they are lesser man because of they beliefs or the policies they pursue, the result is the later . And do not dare deny it, we could get RTS to.

Fast forward 2007 and not much has changed. You still put in power a Fascist Party run by a war criminal (talking about scoring an own goal). You have still made a choice to move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization - Serbs people amongst Serbs, and Albanians amongst Albanians, filled with hatred toward one another.
It is amazing that none of you seems to have the decency to admit this mindless menace of violence and hatred that still exist in your country. You have to understand that you can not build your lives by repressing the lives of the others. You tried and you have lost.
So my dear nighbours , you need to start cleansing your society from this evil ideology.
I’m here to tell you in case you don’t know it, that you got a new generation of Kosovans in our new country who don’t care anything whatsoever about odds when it comes to the issue of liberty and freedom. Reason: every generation has been affected by your state brutality. And we do not need some history book to read about it. We experienced it.
My point is this: Kosovo train has left and does not plan to stop in Belgrade…. Ever!

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

Jovan , I am beginning to understand you and at least my conclusion is that you don't even know where your roots are from let alone to speak for one of the oldest and distinguished nationality in Europe and I am talking about Albanians. Do you know that slavik language is spoken only by eastern europeamns, which serbia is part of . On mena time albanian isan old Indo-Europiean language that one speaks it just like German, Fench and English.

Jon

pre 16 godina

Jovan, It is Serbs that came to Europe and destroyed all the facts that Kosova was never theirs. You cannot ignore the fact that Serbs came to balkan on the 7th century. Anyway, you guys are ignoring the albanian population is growing rapidly. If (and I say with BIG IF), Kosova stays parts of the Serbia, then Kosova will be an Serbian cancer. Serbia as a "democratic" country will have to allow albainians to live anywhere they like. Even on the territories that they use to live before (like my grandmother used to live in a village near Nish etc). If you check the statistics, by 2050 then the majority in Serbia is going to be albanian. Then by then we will declare the whole Serbia as an independent albanian country. Guys, wake up and don't waist your time with this nonsense, you are better of to forget about your dreams that Kosovo is going to be part of Serbia.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

UK backs what evr is deceided and will not act to undermine the UN since it has clearly learnt that ignoring the UN process really does not reflect well on those who act outside it. More importantly the UK is obligated by 1244 to uphold Serbia's integrity and if it was happy to formulate & sign that 8 years ago then clearly it must continue to do so. It would seem that the US & UK technocrats are getting more desperate by the day and now are proposing that a new resolution for talks to continue are passed - but hang on 1244 already allows this - are they that desperate to see that this is just a poor attempt at trying to ignore what they had already agreed - would not expect any new resolution any time soon!

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

Before Ahtisari's package was revealed , 1244 resolution was the most hated thing by serbs and serb lovers. Now all of suden is the best thing. Come on guys make up your mind.

Pavarsi

pre 16 godina

Hey princip why is it that you think the way you do?

What makes you think that any great power is trying to pass any resolution through UN?

The real politics is getting the Kosovars to declare INDEPENDENCE. Once USA (my country) recognize it than so will UK, Germany, Italy, etc.

Do you see how International Affairs are carried out? Not by cutting Gas to Europe or threatning Europe with shortgage of OIL.

Don't ge me wrong, the world sphere is taking RUSSIA or USSR more serious but they will to a certain point.

Anyways, proclamation of independence or "one sided declaration" (how is the support of over 93% pop be "ONE SIDED??") is even worse for serbia.

An article a few weeks ago in big fonts wrote "How to Declare Independence". What got me interested was how it mentioned that the place/region/country that declares independence needs to declare the borders as well; now doesn't Kosova have some regions of Kosovars in Serbia...like the Presheva-Valley?

How the future of Balkans is shaping up, very interesting, let's keep pushing the status more and more until someone declares some "one sided"
solutions.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

some here, Pavarsi included, in fact do not seem to see how "political affairs are being carried out".

a few months you were boasting Russia will back down or restrain before he "one and only global superpower" ...I laughed about that level of naivity.
then after it became clear that there wouldn´t pass a resolution in the UNSC that does not respect international law, you started another tune... "we will be independent one way or another"
and now some are beginning to teach us here about how politics works!

to me, that sounds like WISHFUL THINKING!

in the end there will be great anger among the K-albanians.
THEN they will have the opportunity to show that they are a civilized society.

adriano

pre 16 godina

It feels that serbia even if they wanted to approve of the kosovo independence, they would have a hard time as the russians are having too much fun with their newly found diplomatic say in the free world.
I have a question for all the serb barristers here. What does serbia really want from kosovo that they cant get after independence?

kate

pre 16 godina

Adriano - Don't be ridiculous! It's their land you're talking about. Would you want your country to hand over 15% of its territory?

Daniel

pre 16 godina

Princip only country desperate is Serbia hence why it has sold its soul to Russia. Oh and Im sure in time we will find out exactly what price serbia has had to pay for russian support. the way serbia has simply been removed from international negotiations is rather embarrassing really. no other country in the world has had to rely on another so much and should somehow kosovo become part of serbia, im sure in time we will find out exactly what price serbia has had to pay to russia for its support.

And princip amongst all of your statements you have never managed to explain the benefits to serbs of having kosovo remain part of serbia or benefits to kosovars by remaining part of serbia. only thing coming from you statements which only show that u have no respect to residents of kosovo.

Daniel

pre 16 godina

kate, even with kosovo autonomy, what makes u think serbia will have any say in its affairs again? what makes u think that kosovo will be serb again and more importantly how do you propose that happens? sure on paper u may have kosovo but u would be really who would be kidding who then?

hasan

pre 16 godina

Kosova will be independent very soon. It is a US stragetic goal and cannot be stopped by anyone. I don't know why it is so difficult to understand? Internationally 'Supervised' autonomy can never work. Legally speaking, supervising autonomy is more illegal than just recognizing a secession. There are precedents of territories seceding from other countries but there is no precedent of part of a country being under international "supervision"...

Bob Petrovich

pre 16 godina

Since United Kingdom is one of the oldest European democracies, and Serbia one of the most backward countries, United Kingdom should lead by example and allow Muslims to declare independence on 4000 sq. miles of British soil, stretching from Westminter to Canterbury.
I am sure that Muslims will gladly flock into several postal codes to make 93% of the population of Independent Londona(international name). Expelling some 400 000 Englishmen will speed up the process.

Mr. Brown should know that it does not seem right that backward Serbia leads by example such fine country as U.K.

Independent Londonistan first, then Serbia can consider Independent Kosova.

Olf

pre 16 godina

Britain was never Indian. Didnt you learn any history Bob, do us a favour, firts learn some facts about britain then start talkin for the others.

Kosova was never Serbian, it was occupied from Serbia but never serbian, same as India that was never British

Matthew

pre 16 godina

I think you all missed a very important point.

“He also remarked that splitting Kosovo would not be a good idea, although that could change if Belgrade and Priština were to reach an accord on the issue.”

This seems to be the first comments from the West in support of partition!!!! Even James Lyon of the ICG admitted in his blog that if we were to work together on partition, the international community would support it.

Its time to get serious about partition…

lowe

pre 16 godina

"He also remarked that splitting Kosovo would not be a good idea, although that could change if Belgrade and Priština were to reach an accord on the issue"

Why wouldn't it be a good idea? It is a sensible idea -- then Serbs and Albanians need not live in fear of each other henceforth.

Anthony

pre 16 godina

The British government continues to support such 'noble goals of oppressed people' around the world for independence and self determination but continues to keep its boot on the neck of the Irish in the 6 counties. Since 1167 the English have occupied Ireland.

Why don't the Saxons sort out their own house and provinces before they worry about anyone else's.

26+6=1

Canadien

pre 16 godina

Olf,

Using your logic posted here then America was never American, it belonged to the Indians and hence should now be returned to the native Indians.

adriano

pre 16 godina

Dear kate. Its seems you want to touch on the precedent that this might set, but let me tell you that my country never attacked anybody because they wanted to speak their own language.
And mr petrovich I am a little tired of reading that mexicans should get texas and muslims should get part of england. if america cleansed mexicans now than yes they should take that part of the land like california, but if it was just to grab land they would go up to canada because the grass is greener.
Kosovo is different than the vague arguments you seem to mention lady and gentlemen, majority albanian who live there and are worried about their future with out a status, and the opposition who sees it as 15%land,who claim it because they have a day they lost a war 600 years ago 28june i believe?
Think of this kate and all others, If we take russia and america away, kosovos independence still is supported by 4 leading European nations, and its not because they love 2 million k-albanians, or neither do they hate 6 million serbs, its because they know that once blood spills you cant work it out with out self government.
And as for my country giving 15% away, well that 15% its its worth 0.28% here but its 8%of the population. GO Australia

Matthew

pre 16 godina

"Kosovo is different than the vague arguments you seem to mention lady and gentlemen"
Adriano,
Please explain to me how Kosovo is different from Kurdistan. Oh yeah, it is different, they have much better reasons for independence.
First off, they have absolutely no country to call their own at all. At least you have Albania if you need it. The Kurds have nothing at all.
Often Albanians dismiss the desire of those Black Sea peoples who wish for their own independence because of numbers. "They only have 50,000 but we number 2 million in Kosovo". Well my friends, Kurds make up 35 million people! Kurds will soon be the third largest ethnic group in the Middle East.
Albanians heavily site humanitarian reasons. 10,000 killed in Kosovo, 800,000 thousand forced to flee their homes.
30,000 alone have been killed in fighting in Turkey over Kurdish independence. Thousands killed in Iraq with poison gas. Far worse then what happened in Kosovo. Millions have been forced to flee Iraq in recent times.
In Turkey, the mere mention of the Armenian genocide will land you in jail. You claim Serbia is bad, yet I have no fear of a similar punishment for my many comments condemning Serbian atrocities in Bosnia and Kosovo.
The reality is the Kurds have been fighting for independence for hundreds and hundreds of years. The have been slaughtered in the 10's of thousands using such brutal methods as WMD's. They have no homeland, not even one, and they are the only stable area of Iraq, yet Turkey wants to move their military into Iraq to go after them.
Who is more deserving of Independence? Kosovo or Kurdistan?
The answer is obvious.
So why is Kosovo so important? Its in Europe? Well, considering Turkey is also a potential EU member, that makes no sense either.
BTW, in the past and present Mexicans have been treated rather unfairly in the US. I live in California and I know what's going on. The INS recently has been staking out elementary schools and arresting the parents of American citizens and sending them back to Mexico separating parents from their children. This is horrible! The US stole Texas to California recently, I actually do support giving California our independence. We would be much better off being independent of those crazies in Washington and the rest of the country. We would have something like the 5th highest GDP of any country in the world. Kosovo simply can not compare to that sort of economic independence.

laki NY

pre 16 godina

kate , princip, cvele, dragan ,.. and all people who chose to ignore facts and believe on their made up stories soon to turn myths.
Read the following if you think EU is backing up from independence for Kosova.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070711/wl_afp/kosovoserbiaeu_070711174059

Some quoted statements
"Give us a few months," Kouchner said last week. "But at the end of those few months, it's the red line -- we must take a decision."
"Diplomats said European governments were ready to recognize Kosovo, even without a UN resolution. "We will take responsibility," said a European diplomat."

"We will not play into the hands of someone for 10 years," he said, referring to Russia, which has threatened to veto any UN Security Council resolution on Kosovo that does not meet with Serbia's approval.

jerseyshore

pre 16 godina

http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/kosovo_conflict.html

Adriano and all other screamers of "Blood Was Spilled", please click the link above. It will give you a quick reason why Serbia has claim to Kosovo.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

to all those albanian dreamers, who still spread that nonsense about "Kosovo never been serbian"...

why are even the Albanians using the SERBIAN name for that serbian province?

why are there several hundreds of SERBIAN orthodox sacral monuments, graveyards, churches and so on...?

why are all artefacts found in the ground showing that SERBS cultivated this part of europe?

and if that all is not serbian, especially the churches and monuments... why are Albanians burning it down then?

you can learn about Kosovo´s history in every serious (non-albanian) history-learning-book.

GSP

pre 16 godina

It's nice to see that the UK backs this & the UN supports that as well as the US putting their two cents in, but the bottom line is that still as of today, these are just words.

KosovO is still a part of Serbia no matter what anyone says from the "greater albania".

Why don't you just admit that's what you wanted in the first place? Ahmet admitted it. He admits it every single time he posts his aversion to the Serbs on B92. Even goes as far as to correct the B92 webmaster to put what HE wants on the commentaries. Right, Ahmet?

Olf

pre 16 godina

Using your logic posted here then America was never American, it belonged to the Indians and hence should now be returned to the native Indians.
(Canadien, Wednesday, 11 July, 2007, 18:32)

Sorry Canadien, I did not mean to hurt your feelings, I know that you are naturalised Canadian.
My reply to your comment would be” You know very well what am I talking about” and my point will be proven very soon from you.

Pavarsi

pre 16 godina

Hey Jovan you talk about "wishful thinking" and "naitivity" but what are really saying?

Wishful thinking?? You ever heard a serbian propaganda "Kosova is serbian" , are you kidding me? Us Kosovars laugh at such remarks bc the people who seem to repeat an old and washed out propaganda are people who 1)have never been to kosova 2)dont live there or nevere have 3)pride serbia as the greatest country.

Do us a favor and go live in Republic of Kosova like the rest of us than maybe us "naive" Kosovars will listen to your cries about how the WEST is this and how this and that against serbian people.

Good day to all.

PS
All posters who refer to me plz refer with my name "Pavarsi".

Zeci

pre 16 godina

When I read some of the comments by my fellow neighbours I realise the enormity of the task facing our future generations.
It seems that decades of brainwashing and apartheid filth that has come from the mouthpiece of Milosevic’s regime (Serbian Television) has done its work.
This propaganda machine has created a generation of wretched fanatical followers that have embraced in they psyche this long lasting “righteousness” of Serbian nation. Sadly, some of comments posted here confirm this.
How did this happen? Let’s stop and think here! A 12 Year old in 1985 would have been a ripe killing machine by 1992. When you teach your people to hate and fear other pople , when you teach that they are lesser man because of they beliefs or the policies they pursue, the result is the later . And do not dare deny it, we could get RTS to.

Fast forward 2007 and not much has changed. You still put in power a Fascist Party run by a war criminal (talking about scoring an own goal). You have still made a choice to move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization - Serbs people amongst Serbs, and Albanians amongst Albanians, filled with hatred toward one another.
It is amazing that none of you seems to have the decency to admit this mindless menace of violence and hatred that still exist in your country. You have to understand that you can not build your lives by repressing the lives of the others. You tried and you have lost.
So my dear nighbours , you need to start cleansing your society from this evil ideology.
I’m here to tell you in case you don’t know it, that you got a new generation of Kosovans in our new country who don’t care anything whatsoever about odds when it comes to the issue of liberty and freedom. Reason: every generation has been affected by your state brutality. And we do not need some history book to read about it. We experienced it.
My point is this: Kosovo train has left and does not plan to stop in Belgrade…. Ever!

Ahmet Isufi

pre 16 godina

Jovan , I am beginning to understand you and at least my conclusion is that you don't even know where your roots are from let alone to speak for one of the oldest and distinguished nationality in Europe and I am talking about Albanians. Do you know that slavik language is spoken only by eastern europeamns, which serbia is part of . On mena time albanian isan old Indo-Europiean language that one speaks it just like German, Fench and English.

Jon

pre 16 godina

Jovan, It is Serbs that came to Europe and destroyed all the facts that Kosova was never theirs. You cannot ignore the fact that Serbs came to balkan on the 7th century. Anyway, you guys are ignoring the albanian population is growing rapidly. If (and I say with BIG IF), Kosova stays parts of the Serbia, then Kosova will be an Serbian cancer. Serbia as a "democratic" country will have to allow albainians to live anywhere they like. Even on the territories that they use to live before (like my grandmother used to live in a village near Nish etc). If you check the statistics, by 2050 then the majority in Serbia is going to be albanian. Then by then we will declare the whole Serbia as an independent albanian country. Guys, wake up and don't waist your time with this nonsense, you are better of to forget about your dreams that Kosovo is going to be part of Serbia.